ff's is soft or hard maple preferred.

An article in a recent issue of Woodshop News states soft maple is now outs=
elling hard. Reasons are as mentioned above...easier on cutting tools and a=
ccepts finishes better, especially paint. Mind you, this comes from a guy t=
hat recently bought a sheet of 1/4 maple and couldn't tell you if it was ha=
rd or soft.

OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>
> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>
> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>
> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
> stores around So. Cal.
>
> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
> an advantage for glue ups?
>
> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
> and rolling, tomorrow.
>

IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
Soft will also be easier to mill.

On Fri, 8 Apr 2016 13:56:07 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>OFWW <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> I've been thinking about making a splitter to mount on the insert
>> itself. Guess I'll be looking hard for one know.
>
>I have seen, altho not made one myself, splitters that are
>just a thin piece of wood sticking out of a zero-clearance
>insert. The key points are the splitter should be just a
>tad thinner than the blade, and aligned perfectly behind
>the blade.

Microjig makes these. I used them for a while but bought the knife
for my Unisaur.

>Of course, you also want it strong enough that, if the kerf
>closes on it, it doesn't just snap off.

If it does, it'll still old the kerf open.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>
>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>> noticed that?
>
>Yep. Particularly if your tools are not setup properly and/or are on the
>dull side.
>
Thanks to you guys I have new bits, and DADO blade kit.

>Also, reaction wood, and maple has its share, can make it worse.
>
>That said, you can get lucky and find the burn parts can be sanded out
>without too much ado, and, if you're painting, might not be that big of
>an issue.
>
>I certainly would not make that a deciding factor, all other things
>being equal.
>
>I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon
>got on to also.

What is considered a good price?

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 14:26:49 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which
>>> Leon got on to also.
>>
>> What is considered a good price?
>
>That depends upon how much you want and what grade. If you want 25 brd.ft.
>it will cost more than 250 brd.ft. If you want FAS or select it will cost
>more than #1 common.
>
>It also depends upon where you buy it. Buy locally - assuming "locally"
>isn't near the source - and it will cost more than a place close to the
>source; buy there and you have to factor in freight. Which can be
>horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at $5.25/brd.ft. Total
>cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to central Florida.
>
>It also depends upon the vendor. One place in NC has soft maple for $2.60,
>another at $3.65.
>
>BTW, IMO is is folly to buy FAS/Select in many cases. Judicicious cutting
>of #1 common can result in considerable savings. For little stuff like face
>frames - particularly when it will be painted - #1 common is appropriate.
>IMO :)
>

Your usage of unfamiliar terms means more learning, I see. :)
I was told either 2.14 or 3.14 bd ft for S3S Soft maple and 3.47 for
Hard S3S Maple.

So when I get back to the store and order I'll firm up those prices
and how much I need before I put down the Cash.

Today was a bad day, the 2 year old Yellow Lab started throwing up,
then puking up everything in her tummy. She went out in the back yard,
ate a bunch of grass, drank water and puked up everything shortly
after. Within an hour she drank a lot of water and puked it all up.
What a mess, ran her to the vet, end result surgery. She had swallowed
a rock, fortunately it was smooth. We pick her up tomorrow. I told the
surgeon to save me the rock. Paid more for that rock then the ring on
my wife's finger. I'm thinking of having it mounted, the rock. ;)

notbob <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 2016-04-07, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
>> wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close
>> up as the cut is being made.
>
> I love this newsgroup. Very little noise and a whole lotta info.
>
>> while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near
>> the end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a
>> missile.
>
> R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The
> film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no
> guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle
> guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". The
> film showed the actor's intestines wrapped around the lance-sized
> piece that impaled him. A total hoot fer a nineth grader, but deadly
> serious, now.
>
> I see a lotta youtube vids showing a guy pushing work into the
> tablesaw blade with no push stick and the blade seemingly set quite
> low. What should I know that was not shown on that safety film from
> the 50s?
>
> I'm going over, today, to look at a tablesaw I might use to make
> finger joints.
>
> Thank you for the info on "reactionary" wood.
>
> nb
>

It's ok to set the blade lowish, I believe the current thinking is that
having the gullet just clear the wood is the best compromise between not
exposing too much blade and trying to get the blade moving down through
most of the cut.

Your fence needs to be parallel to the blade. This will reduce the
likelihood of a piece applying pressure against the blade, which is one
of the first ingredients in a kickback recipe.

Do not trap the workpiece between the blade and fence. If you're taking
only a 1/8" off, set the fence so the wide side of the board is against
the fence and the small side is cut off.

Realize that there are pieces that are just too small to be cut with a
power saw of any kind safely. You may have to plan ahead on a project
that uses them to make sure the final cut leaves you with an exact
dimension piece.

Puckdropper

John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

*snip*
>
> Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to
> keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas.
*snip*
>
> John

Speaking of push sticks, avoid making the Birdsmouth style. That's a notch
cut out of the end of a piece of wood. Sometimes plastic molded ones are
sold as "push sticks" or "getting started" tools, but those should be
avoided. They're dangerous. They put pressure on the very end of the
board, which encourages it to lift.

A "shoe" style or other form will be much better. They keep pressure along
the entire board so it's not likely to lift.

Puckdropper

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 10:53:26 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>>>
>>>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep
>>>> in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>>>
>>>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>>>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>>>
>>>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>>>> stores around So. Cal.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>>>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>>>
>>>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it
>>>> finished and rolling, tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>
>>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the
>>> hard. Soft will also be easier to mill.
>>
>> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
>> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>
>Sure
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test
>
>Frankly, I wouldn't be worrying much about hardness. I'd be more concerned
>about paintability and I generally use poplar for that.
>
Well we have oak frames in the house, and they weathered well for 40
years. No discernable nicks, and tough as nails to disassemble.

Yes, Paintability is my main concern but Poplar, me, and white paint
don't seem to get along to well together.

> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.

A friend and I recently built a Roubo bench. The instructions called for soft maple, but we opted for hard maple for the top. Huge mistake! ...

The hard maple was far harder to machine, both with the table saw and particularly the router. Stick with soft maple and save yourself some grief.

On 4/7/2016 6:18 PM, notbob wrote:

> Kickback pawls are probably what I thought to be the "guard thingies"
> I saw on that ancient woodshop safety film.

Rarely have used a TS guard since I got rid of my old overhead system,
but never fail to use BOTH a push block, and a splitter.

The splitter/riving knife is the single most important device for
preventing kickback on a through cut there is.

In the thousands of shop photos, it would be rare to see a glimpse of my
table saw without some type of splitter ... this is one I made out of
the old Delta guard that came with the saw ... not quite as effective as
a riving knife, but a whole lot better than no splitter:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff?noredirect=1#5850516674541872338

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/7/2016 10:39 AM, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>
>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>>> noticed that?
>>
>> Yep. Particularly if your tools are not setup properly and/or are on the
>> dull side.
>>
> Thanks to you guys I have new bits, and DADO blade kit.
>
>> Also, reaction wood, and maple has its share, can make it worse.
>>
>> That said, you can get lucky and find the burn parts can be sanded out
>> without too much ado, and, if you're painting, might not be that big of
>> an issue.
>>
>> I certainly would not make that a deciding factor, all other things
>> being equal.
>>
>> I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon
>> got on to also.
>
> What is considered a good price?
>
Free! LOL

Actually a good price will depend on your location. Prices vary widely
depending on your proximity to the source.

On 4/7/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>>> noticed that?
>>
>> Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>
>> If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar
>> is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>
>> I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft
>> maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for
>> windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>> less than gold prices...
>
> Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
> that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?
>


Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up
as the cut is being made.

Swingman and I worked on a kitchen/bathroom remodel 5 years ago and I
built a boat load of drawers for the bathrooms. We used hard maple and
while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. Hit
me just above the belt and thank goodness I was also wearing an apron.
That was not pleasant. Fortunately only a large bruise.

A great reason to have a splitter on oru TS.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:56:12 -0500, Martin Eastburn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Sugar.
>

I'm laughing, simple answer, on the mark from what I can see.

>On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 10:00:25 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>>>>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
>>>> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>>>
>>> On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about
>>> 1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same
>>> as cherry and walnut is about 1000.
>>>
>>> It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a
>>> clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that
>>> does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish
>>> is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need
>>> proper surface prep...
>>
>> Wife wants white, white.
>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>> noticed that?
>>

On 4/7/2016 1:13 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-04-07, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
>> wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up
>> as the cut is being made.
>
> I love this newsgroup. Very little noise and a whole lotta info.

Today.... ;~) Wait till school lets out, the squirrels will be plenty.



>
>> while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
>> end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile.
>
> R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The
> film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no
> guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle
> guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". The
> film showed the actor's intestines wrapped around the lance-sized piece that
> impaled him. A total hoot fer a nineth grader, but deadly serious,
> now.

Well I'm not perfect and capable of making mistakes, unlike many that
don't have much to show except their vast knowledge of how it will never
happen to them. And eventually they make mistakes....
I do a lot of woodworking, compared to most. I know the risks and do
what I can to guard against problems but do this long enough and you
either accomplish little or one day you get hurt. Some never get hurt,
some never have been in a car wreck.

A splitter is not always particle, like when cutting dado's or groves.
I was using a push stick but again, something happened and you don't
have time to think about that after something goes wrong.




>
> I see a lotta youtube vids showing a guy pushing work into the
> tablesaw blade with no push stick and the blade seemingly set quite
> low. What should I know that was not shown on that safety film from
> the 50s?
>
> I'm going over, today, to look at a tablesaw I might use to make
> finger joints.

You are going to have to be the judge as to what saw is best for you.
My advise is to buy a good as you can afford. And past that get a
SawStop. IMHO underpowered saws are more dangerous than those with
plenty of hp. I would never consider less than 3hp but those are pricey.



>
> Thank you for the info on "reactionary" wood.
>
> nb
>

On 4/6/2016 1:14 AM, OFWW wrote:
> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>
> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>
> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>
> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
> stores around So. Cal.
>
> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
> an advantage for glue ups?
>
> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
> and rolling, tomorrow.
>

Soft maple has more color in it. you will see gray streaks, and brown.
hard maple is generally very plain (excluding figure of coarse).

the difference is little in one being stronger than the other. Both are
pretty hard woods, don't dent easily.

my two cents... I'm sure many will say other things.

--
Jeff

On 4/6/2016 6:00 AM, BillinGA wrote:
> An article in a recent issue of Woodshop News states soft maple is now outselling hard. Reasons are as mentioned above...easier on cutting tools and accepts finishes better, especially paint. Mind you, this comes from a guy that recently bought a sheet of 1/4 maple and couldn't tell you if it was hard or soft.
>

Don't feel lonely. LOL
It is very difficult to fell soft from hard on plywood, the outer veneer
is not thick enough to provide any resistance to any abrasion of denting.

On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:06:15 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
>>>>> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>>>>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>>>>
>>>>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>>>>> stores around So. Cal.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>>>>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
>>>>> and rolling, tomorrow.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>>>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>>>
>>> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
>>> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>>>
>>
>> Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka
>> scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red
>> oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450.
>>
>> So possibly as much as twice as hard.
>
> All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and
> durability?
>
Almost with out exception if I am going to paint I use poplar. And it
is really soft, 540. From there soft maple.

In article <[email protected]>,
Puckdropper says...
>
> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> *snip*
> >
> > Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to
> > keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas.
> *snip*
> >
> > John
>
> Speaking of push sticks, avoid making the Birdsmouth style. That's a notch
> cut out of the end of a piece of wood. Sometimes plastic molded ones are
> sold as "push sticks" or "getting started" tools, but those should be
> avoided. They're dangerous. They put pressure on the very end of the
> board, which encourages it to lift.
>
> A "shoe" style or other form will be much better. They keep pressure along
> the entire board so it's not likely to lift.
>
> Puckdropper

The utility of the birds mouth style is the last few inches of cut,
where they keep your hand well separated from the blade. At that point
if the board lifts it's not because you put a little pressure on the
end.

At least if you subscribe to the "never put your hand above the blade"
philosophy, which I do and some don't.

Sugar.

On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 10:00:25 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon<[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>>>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>>>
>>> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
>>> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>>
>> On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about
>> 1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same
>> as cherry and walnut is about 1000.
>>
>> It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a
>> clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that
>> does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish
>> is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need
>> proper surface prep...
>
> Wife wants white, white.
> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
> noticed that?
>

OFWW <[email protected]> writes:
>On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>...
>>
>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>>> noticed that?
>>
>>Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>
>>If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar
>>is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>
>>I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft
>>maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for
>>windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>>less than gold prices...
>
>Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
>that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?

When a tree grows on a hillside, stresses can build up in the
lumber derived from the tree. Reaction wood is caused by
these stresses, which when relieved during milling, will seriously
compromise the dimensionally stability of the timber. In other
words, it will warp or bow when you rip or resaw it.

OFWW <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>
> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.

Soft, for several reasons:
1. If you're painting it anyway, there's not much point in paying the extra cost for hard maple.
2. Soft maple takes paint better than hard maple.
3. Soft maple is a *lot* easier to cut and mill than hard maple.

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Which can be horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at
> $5.25/brd.ft. Total cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to
> central Florida.

Hmmm, I just got 200bf from NC down to the pointy end of Fla,
and the shipping was free. 100bf of some kind of mahogany
(probably khaya or something African) and 100bf of poplar
for about $650 total.

Of course, the only reason it was shipped free was I drove
up there in the pickup truck...my employer wanted me up there
and they pay for me to drive, and don't care if I use the
car or the truck.

John

notbob <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The
> film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no
> guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle
> guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick".

I don't think lack of a "guard thingie" would be a factor in
that particular problem, but lack of a splitter or riving knife
would be.

As Puckdropper said, setting the blade low has advantages and
is considered an OK practice today. Avoiding kickback means
having a splitter/riving knife so that the kerf can't close on
the blade. Also, as Puckdropper said, don't do thin cuts on
the fence side (as you push the wood into the cut you'll tend
to rotate it towards the blade if you're pushing on away side).

Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to
keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas.

And, from personal experience, avoid cutting thru knots. Even
what looks like a tight knot can come loose when the teeth hit
it, and having half a knot whistle past your ear like a bullet
really gets your attention.

John

"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Was your mahogany about 14' long?

No, 7', which is a bit of an awkward size.

OTOH 14' would have been a bit of a problem too, because my
truck has an 8' bed. I can carry 12' with the tailgate down
and no need for a flag/light, but 14' might get a trooper's
attention.

John

OFWW <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I've been thinking about making a splitter to mount on the insert
> itself. Guess I'll be looking hard for one know.

I have seen, altho not made one myself, splitters that are
just a thin piece of wood sticking out of a zero-clearance
insert. The key points are the splitter should be just a
tad thinner than the blade, and aligned perfectly behind
the blade.

Of course, you also want it strong enough that, if the kerf
closes on it, it doesn't just snap off.

John

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:_rOdnZcbyJO1nprKnZ2dnUU7-
[email protected]:

> Correct but most guards have a splitter of some sort.

Maybe not so much, now that riving knives are becoming popular.

> I will never forget the dufuss on one of the DIY channels, IIRC Brad
> Stagg on the Ultimate Workshop showing how to cut a dado, WITH THE GUARD
> IN PLACE. The look on his face when the wood hit the splitter was
> priceless as was watching him get out of that situation with out mishap.

I have to admit having done almost the same thing, wanting to
quickly put a 1/8 groove in a piece and hitting the splitter.
I'd like to think that if I had changed the blade (which of
course I didn't for the 1/8 groove) I would have remembered not
to put the splitter back on.

John

On 4/7/2016 4:33 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> notbob <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The
>> film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no
>> guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle
>> guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick".
>
> I don't think lack of a "guard thingie" would be a factor in
> that particular problem, but lack of a splitter or riving knife
> would be.

Correct but most guards have a splitter of some sort. And unfortunately
most guards are probably more likely to cause injury than not, given
enough time and the right circumstances.

I will never forget the dufuss on one of the DIY channels, IIRC Brad
Stagg on the Ultimate Workshop showing how to cut a dado, WITH THE GUARD
IN PLACE. The look on his face when the wood hit the splitter was
priceless as was watching him get out of that situation with out mishap.



>
> As Puckdropper said, setting the blade low has advantages and
> is considered an OK practice today. Avoiding kickback means
> having a splitter/riving knife so that the kerf can't close on
> the blade. Also, as Puckdropper said, don't do thin cuts on
> the fence side (as you push the wood into the cut you'll tend
> to rotate it towards the blade if you're pushing on away side).
>
> Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to
> keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas.
>
> And, from personal experience, avoid cutting thru knots. Even
> what looks like a tight knot can come loose when the teeth hit
> it, and having half a knot whistle past your ear like a bullet
> really gets your attention.
>
> John
>

"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On 4/8/2016 2:38 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 4/7/2016 9:55 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:02:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/7/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>>>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> noticed that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>>>>
>>>>> If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even
>>>>> poplar
>>>>> is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the
>>>>> soft
>>>>> maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that
>>>>> used for
>>>>> windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>>>>> less than gold prices...
>>>>
>>>> Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
>>>> that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
>>> wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up
>>> as the cut is being made.
>>>
>>> Swingman and I worked on a kitchen/bathroom remodel 5 years ago and I
>>> built a boat load of drawers for the bathrooms. We used hard maple and
>>> while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
>>> end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. Hit
>>> me just above the belt and thank goodness I was also wearing an apron.
>>> That was not pleasant. Fortunately only a large bruise.
>>>
>>> A great reason to have a splitter on oru TS.
>>>
>> Whoa BABY! I'll make sure mine is on when I cut. You may have just
>> saved a life, thank you.
>>
>> I've been thinking about making a splitter to mount on the insert
>> itself. Guess I'll be looking hard for one know.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>
> This splitter works pretty good. They offer one with a metal core and
> one that is all plastic. Get the metal core one. I used on for years.
>
> http://www.microjig.com/products/mj-splitter/


>>>through cut. A riving knife typically raises and lowers with the blade
>>>so it usally never has to be removed unless you are cutting groves or
>>>dado's.

A question about that. I don't have a saw with a riving knife. The ads I
have seen
for them suggest that since the knife is set a little lower than the blade
and moves with it,
that it doesn't even have to be removed for dados. Which is correct?
John

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:05:13 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote:
>
>> All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and
>> durability?
>
>I do. Mine is always soft maple for painting, unless I'm staining/clear
>coating and looking for some figure.

Thanks Swingman, I was going to ask you as the bathroom cabinet you
did 400 some miles from you was white.

On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>...
>
>> Wife wants white, white.
>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>> noticed that?
>
>Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>
>If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar
>is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>
>I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft
>maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for
>windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>less than gold prices...

Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?

On Wed, 06 Apr 2016 10:00:25 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon<[email protected]> wrote:
>...
>
>>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>>
>> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
>> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>
>On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about
>1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same
>as cherry and walnut is about 1000.
>
>It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a
>clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that
>does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish
>is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need
>proper surface prep...

Wife wants white, white.
They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
noticed that?

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:06:15 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>>>
>>>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
>>>> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>>>
>>>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>>>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>>>
>>>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>>>> stores around So. Cal.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>>>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>>>
>>>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
>>>> and rolling, tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>
>>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>>
>> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
>> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>>
>
>Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka
>scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red
>oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450.
>
>So possibly as much as twice as hard.

All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and
durability?

On 2016-04-07, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
> wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up
> as the cut is being made.

I love this newsgroup. Very little noise and a whole lotta info.

> while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
> end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile.

R U kidding me!? I saw that shop safety film in the 9th grade. The
film stated the reason the piece of wood got shot back was cuz; no
guard thingie; the blade was set too low, hitting the work at an angle
guaranteed to turn it into a projectile; not using "push stick". The
film showed the actor's intestines wrapped around the lance-sized piece that
impaled him. A total hoot fer a nineth grader, but deadly serious,
now.

I see a lotta youtube vids showing a guy pushing work into the
tablesaw blade with no push stick and the blade seemingly set quite
low. What should I know that was not shown on that safety film from
the 50s?

I'm going over, today, to look at a tablesaw I might use to make
finger joints.

Thank you for the info on "reactionary" wood.

nb

On 2016-04-07, John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't think lack of a "guard thingie" would be a factor in
> that particular problem, but lack of a splitter or riving knife
> would be.
>
> As Puckdropper said, setting the blade low has advantages and
> is considered an OK practice today. Avoiding kickback means
> having a splitter/riving knife so that the kerf can't close on
> the blade. Also, as Puckdropper said, don't do thin cuts on
> the fence side (as you push the wood into the cut you'll tend
> to rotate it towards the blade if you're pushing on away side).
>
> Push sticks, feather boards, and outfeed tables or rollers to
> keep the board from lifting off the table are also good ideas.
>
> And, from personal experience, avoid cutting thru knots. Even
> what looks like a tight knot can come loose when the teeth hit
> it, and having half a knot whistle past your ear like a bullet
> really gets your attention.

No doubt!

Thank you fer setting me straight.

I realize this is not half a century ago, but I still wondered. Thnx
fer educating this geezer neophyte. I know what a feather board is
and jes looked up "riving knife".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riving_knife

Kickback pawls are probably what I thought to be the "guard thingies"
I saw on that ancient woodshop safety film.

I discovered our HOA has a rusty Craftman tablesaw and equally ancient
Craftsman radial saw. Neither has a dado set, so I'll prolly wait fer
my buddy, who has all three.

nb

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:

>OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>
>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
>> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>
>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>
>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>> stores around So. Cal.
>>
>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>
>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
>> and rolling, tomorrow.
>>
>
>IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>Soft will also be easier to mill.

I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?

On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote:

> All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and
> durability?

I do. Mine is always soft maple for painting, unless I'm staining/clear
coating and looking for some figure.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/6/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:

> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
> noticed that?

Yep. Particularly if your tools are not setup properly and/or are on the
dull side.

Also, reaction wood, and maple has its share, can make it worse.

That said, you can get lucky and find the burn parts can be sanded out
without too much ado, and, if you're painting, might not be that big of
an issue.

I certainly would not make that a deciding factor, all other things
being equal.

I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which Leon
got on to also.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:02:24 -0400, woodchucker <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/6/2016 1:14 AM, OFWW wrote:
>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>
>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
>> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>
>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>
>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>> stores around So. Cal.
>>
>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>
>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
>> and rolling, tomorrow.
>>
>
>Soft maple has more color in it. you will see gray streaks, and brown.
>hard maple is generally very plain (excluding figure of coarse).
>
>the difference is little in one being stronger than the other. Both are
>pretty hard woods, don't dent easily.
>
>my two cents... I'm sure many will say other things.

Hey, It all adds up. I appreciate all the input from everyone.

I happen to love maple. Although I am starting to like dark wood more.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 22:35:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 4/6/2016 8:01 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 13:06:15 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
>>>>>> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>>>>>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>>>>>> stores around So. Cal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>>>>>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
>>>>>> and rolling, tomorrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>>>>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>>>>
>>>> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
>>>> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka
>>> scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red
>>> oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450.
>>>
>>> So possibly as much as twice as hard.
>>
>> All things considered do you have a preference? For painting and
>> durability?
>>
>Almost with out exception if I am going to paint I use poplar. And it
>is really soft, 540. From there soft maple.
>

Then soft maple it is. I hate to use really good wood where it cannot
be seen, but this seems like a nice compromise. It is hard around here
to get clear poplar, without the gray streaks, and that stuff bleeds
through the white paint even after it is sealed. I used it for some
grandchild stuff. With kid safe paint/sealer.

On 4/6/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>>
>>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
>>> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>>
>>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>>
>>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>>> stores around So. Cal.
>>>
>>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>>
>>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it finished
>>> and rolling, tomorrow.
>>>
>>
>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>
> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?
>

Soft Maple depending on which soft maple has a hardness on the Jenka
scale is 700-950. Oak, again on which variety ranges from 1290 for red
oak to 1360 on white oak. Hard Sugar maple 1450.

So possibly as much as twice as hard.

OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> OFWW <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>>
>>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep
>>> in mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>>>
>>> I've got a good sale price of 46 bucks a sheet of mdf plywood core
>>> 3/4". A competitor for J Classic Lam.
>>>
>>> Found a good local source hardwood business that has a number of
>>> stores around So. Cal.
>>>
>>> I was thinking that hard maple would be stronger, but does soft have
>>> an advantage for glue ups?
>>>
>>> I am building a mobile rack for the plywood, hope to have it
>>> finished and rolling, tomorrow.
>>>
>>
>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the
>> hard. Soft will also be easier to mill.
>
> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?

Sure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

Frankly, I wouldn't be worrying much about hardness. I'd be more concerned
about paintability and I generally use poplar for that.

On 04/06/2016 9:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:30:14 -0500, Leon<[email protected]> wrote:
...

>> IMHO soft is plenty strong but not as dent resistant as with the hard.
>> Soft will also be easier to mill.
>
> I was thinking about the latter part, they said their stuff was s3s.
> Is it possible to compare the softness against Oak?

On the Janka scale, hard maple is about 1450 while white oak is about
1350 and red oak more like 1300. For comparison soft maple is 950, same
as cherry and walnut is about 1000.

It will have a "blander" characteristic than would hard maple for a
clearcoat finish; it doesn't have the highlights and occasional eye that
does hard maple, even if not selected for figure. If an opaque finish
is planned, soft will be easier to get uniform finish with but will need
proper surface prep...

--

On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
...

> Wife wants white, white.
> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
> noticed that?

Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.

If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar
is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.

I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft
maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for
windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
less than gold prices...

--

On 04/07/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>>> noticed that?
>>
>> Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>
>> If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar
>> is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>
>> I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft
>> maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for
>> windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>> less than gold prices...
>
> Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
> that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?

<http://agclass.nal.usda.gov/mtwdk.exe?k=wood&l=60&w=321&n=1&s=5&t=2>

I was commenting that I've not had any excessive amount of reaction wood
in the soft maple I've bought; it's going to be a function of where the
material came from and how well it was graded/sorted at the mill. If
buying "tree run" or lower grades such as #2 common as I often will for
the price as for smaller furniture pieces the net yield makes it _much_
more economical that FAS or even #1 common, the likelihood is higher
that they'll put it in the bundle. OTOH, when I bought the current
stash of maple, they happened to have a good pricing on it and it is FAS
(some as wide as 16" 5/4 stock) and I've yet to come across a piece that
has any problem...

There's a nice and pretty short explanation on Wikipedia of how it forms
and the differences between hardwoods and softwoods (and here it's the
differentiation between angiosperms and gymnosperms, don't let the
physical hardness of the wood itself confuse.

--

OFWW wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 20:03:06 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>> I do use a ton of maple these days. Got a good deal on some, which
>> Leon got on to also.
>
> What is considered a good price?

That depends upon how much you want and what grade. If you want 25 brd.ft.
it will cost more than 250 brd.ft. If you want FAS or select it will cost
more than #1 common.

It also depends upon where you buy it. Buy locally - assuming "locally"
isn't near the source - and it will cost more than a place close to the
source; buy there and you have to factor in freight. Which can be
horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at $5.25/brd.ft. Total
cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to central Florida.

It also depends upon the vendor. One place in NC has soft maple for $2.60,
another at $3.65.

BTW, IMO is is folly to buy FAS/Select in many cases. Judicicious cutting
of #1 common can result in considerable savings. For little stuff like face
frames - particularly when it will be painted - #1 common is appropriate.
IMO :)

John McCoy wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Which can be horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at
>> $5.25/brd.ft. Total cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to
>> central Florida.
>
> Hmmm, I just got 200bf from NC down to the pointy end of Fla,
> and the shipping was free. 100bf of some kind of mahogany
> (probably khaya or something African) and 100bf of poplar
> for about $650 total.
>
> Of course, the only reason it was shipped free was I drove
> up there in the pickup truck...my employer wanted me up there
> and they pay for me to drive, and don't care if I use the
> car or the truck.

Lucky you. Next time you go pick up another 200bf of Khaya, ribbon stripe
(quartered) for me. Play your cards right and I'll toss in supper :)

Was your mahogany about 14' long?

John McCoy wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Was your mahogany about 14' long?
>
> No, 7', which is a bit of an awkward size.
>
> OTOH 14' would have been a bit of a problem too, because my
> truck has an 8' bed. I can carry 12' with the tailgate down
> and no need for a flag/light, but 14' might get a trooper's
> attention.

All that I got was 14' or a tad more. They offered to cut them to 7' but I
declined as I needed some longer than that, prefer to do my own cutting.

What I got was quite nice...6"+ to 12", relatively flat, generally one edge
straight enough for ripping. Thick too; I can get 7/8 out of all of it,
frequently 15/16, sometimes 1". Also, quite pretty and almost no bad spots.

On 4/8/2016 2:38 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 4/7/2016 9:55 PM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:02:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/7/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>>>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> noticed that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>>>>
>>>>> If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even
>>>>> poplar
>>>>> is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the
>>>>> soft
>>>>> maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that
>>>>> used for
>>>>> windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>>>>> less than gold prices...
>>>>
>>>> Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
>>>> that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
>>> wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up
>>> as the cut is being made.
>>>
>>> Swingman and I worked on a kitchen/bathroom remodel 5 years ago and I
>>> built a boat load of drawers for the bathrooms. We used hard maple and
>>> while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
>>> end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. Hit
>>> me just above the belt and thank goodness I was also wearing an apron.
>>> That was not pleasant. Fortunately only a large bruise.
>>>
>>> A great reason to have a splitter on oru TS.
>>>
>> Whoa BABY! I'll make sure mine is on when I cut. You may have just
>> saved a life, thank you.
>>
>> I've been thinking about making a splitter to mount on the insert
>> itself. Guess I'll be looking hard for one know.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>
> This splitter works pretty good. They offer one with a metal core and
> one that is all plastic. Get the metal core one. I used on for years.
>
> http://www.microjig.com/products/mj-splitter/


I will say that most splitters do not work if you are not making a
through cut. A riving knife typically raises and lowers with the blade
so it usally never has to be removed unless you are cutting groves or
dado's.

On 4/7/2016 9:55 PM, OFWW wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:02:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 4/7/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>>>>> noticed that?
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>>>
>>>> If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar
>>>> is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>>>
>>>> I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft
>>>> maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for
>>>> windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>>>> less than gold prices...
>>>
>>> Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
>>> that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
>> wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up
>> as the cut is being made.
>>
>> Swingman and I worked on a kitchen/bathroom remodel 5 years ago and I
>> built a boat load of drawers for the bathrooms. We used hard maple and
>> while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
>> end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. Hit
>> me just above the belt and thank goodness I was also wearing an apron.
>> That was not pleasant. Fortunately only a large bruise.
>>
>> A great reason to have a splitter on oru TS.
>>
> Whoa BABY! I'll make sure mine is on when I cut. You may have just
> saved a life, thank you.
>
> I've been thinking about making a splitter to mount on the insert
> itself. Guess I'll be looking hard for one know.
>
> Thanks!
>

This splitter works pretty good. They offer one with a metal core and
one that is all plastic. Get the metal core one. I used on for years.

http://www.microjig.com/products/mj-splitter/

On 4/8/2016 5:43 PM, John S wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> On 4/8/2016 2:38 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 4/7/2016 9:55 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:02:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/7/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>>>>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> noticed that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even
>>>>>> poplar
>>>>>> is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the
>>>>>> soft
>>>>>> maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that
>>>>>> used for
>>>>>> windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>>>>>> less than gold prices...
>>>>>
>>>>> Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
>>>>> that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
>>>> wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to
>>>> close up
>>>> as the cut is being made.
>>>>
>>>> Swingman and I worked on a kitchen/bathroom remodel 5 years ago and I
>>>> built a boat load of drawers for the bathrooms. We used hard maple and
>>>> while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
>>>> end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile.
>>>> Hit
>>>> me just above the belt and thank goodness I was also wearing an apron.
>>>> That was not pleasant. Fortunately only a large bruise.
>>>>
>>>> A great reason to have a splitter on oru TS.
>>>>
>>> Whoa BABY! I'll make sure mine is on when I cut. You may have just
>>> saved a life, thank you.
>>>
>>> I've been thinking about making a splitter to mount on the insert
>>> itself. Guess I'll be looking hard for one know.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>
>> This splitter works pretty good. They offer one with a metal core and
>> one that is all plastic. Get the metal core one. I used on for years.
>>
>> http://www.microjig.com/products/mj-splitter/
>
>
>>>> through cut. A riving knife typically raises and lowers with the
>>>> blade so it usally never has to be removed unless you are cutting
>>>> groves or dado's.
>
> A question about that. I don't have a saw with a riving knife. The ads
> I have seen
> for them suggest that since the knife is set a little lower than the
> blade and moves with it,

That is correct.




> that it doesn't even have to be removed for dados. Which is correct?
> John

No, that is not correct, assuming you make dado's the traditional way.
For the most part most TS's have 10" blades. Most dado sets are either
6" or 8". The riving knife would stand either 1" or 2" taller than the
dado blades.

That said, most modern saws that have riving knives are set for very
easy removal and replacement. I personally own a SawStop ICS. It is
very easy to remove the riving knife, pull the lever up and remove the
knife, replace the knife and push the lever down. AAMOf it is often
easier to change blades with the riving blade removed. It is a 2~3
second operation removing and or replacing the riving knife when
changing blades.

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:02:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 4/7/2016 10:44 AM, OFWW wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:41:24 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/06/2016 7:56 PM, OFWW wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Wife wants white, white.
>>>> They seem to say that Maple burns easily with hi-speed tools. Have you
>>>> noticed that?
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's kinda' like cherry but not quite so much so.
>>>
>>> If painting, there's no reason at all to use hard maple and even poplar
>>> is probably "hard enough" to avoid all but the worst of abuse.
>>>
>>> I've not noticed an preponderance towards reaction wood in all the soft
>>> maple I've used -- bought some 600 bd ft several years ago that used for
>>> windows and the like when clear white pine was purely unobtainable at
>>> less than gold prices...
>>
>> Swingman mentioned that too. Do you mean reaction to other woods, or
>> that some soft maple itself is reactionary, and what does that mean?
>>
>
>
>Reactionary tends to warp or bow "immediately" after it is cut. The
>wood will often widen while being cut or the kerf will begin to close up
>as the cut is being made.
>
>Swingman and I worked on a kitchen/bathroom remodel 5 years ago and I
>built a boat load of drawers for the bathrooms. We used hard maple and
>while ripping a piece to width it closed back up on the blade near the
>end of the cut and threw the keeper side back at me like a missile. Hit
>me just above the belt and thank goodness I was also wearing an apron.
>That was not pleasant. Fortunately only a large bruise.
>
>A great reason to have a splitter on oru TS.
>
Whoa BABY! I'll make sure mine is on when I cut. You may have just
saved a life, thank you.

I've been thinking about making a splitter to mount on the insert
itself. Guess I'll be looking hard for one know.

Thanks!

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 23:22:36 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
<[email protected]> wrote:

>OFWW <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> I am about to order the material for my kitchen cabinets.
>>
>> For the ff's, is there any preference for hard or soft maple. Keep in
>> mind I will be painting the whole enchilada.
>
>Soft, for several reasons:
>1. If you're painting it anyway, there's not much point in paying the extra cost for hard maple.
>2. Soft maple takes paint better than hard maple.
>3. Soft maple is a *lot* easier to cut and mill than hard maple.

Hmmm, Thanks for the insight. Matches up with what every one else is
saying, and it is just over a buck a board foot less expensive.

On Thu, 7 Apr 2016 21:13:36 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> Which can be horrendous. I recently bought 200 ft+ of mahogany at
>> $5.25/brd.ft. Total cost was about $1230 + $212 freight from NC to
>> central Florida.
>
>Hmmm, I just got 200bf from NC down to the pointy end of Fla,
>and the shipping was free. 100bf of some kind of mahogany
>(probably khaya or something African) and 100bf of poplar
>for about $650 total.
>
>Of course, the only reason it was shipped free was I drove
>up there in the pickup truck...my employer wanted me up there
>and they pay for me to drive, and don't care if I use the
>car or the truck.

I played a similar gambit about 30 years go, except I rented a truck
for a business trip. I scored up 250' of Hard Maple 2x10s (complete
with tap holes) and 1000' of cedar for a fence.