Cutting high pressure laminate or melamine

"Jeffrey Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
> >
> > "Dick Snyder" Writes:
> >> approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent
the
> >
> > Don't even attempt to screw around with this one.
>
> Why not? I've cut high pressure laminate ("Formica") many times
> on a table saw with excellent results. I never felt like I was
> "screwing around" at all.

Ditto here. I use a Freud laminate blade with stellar results. Cuts like
butter.
SH

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6_%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Slowhand" <I'm@work>
wrote:
> >
> >"Jeffrey Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >> Why not? I've cut high pressure laminate ("Formica") many times
> >> on a table saw with excellent results. I never felt like I was
> >> "screwing around" at all.
> >
> >Ditto here. I use a Freud laminate blade with stellar results. Cuts
like
> >butter.
>
> And here. Same blade, same results. I use an auxiliary fence of BB plywood
> clamped to the rip fence to keep the Formica from running underneath, and
a
> featherboard clamped to the auxiliary to hold the stuff down during the
cut,
> and it's just as smooth as silk.

I used to use a similiar method until I bought one of those 48" straight
edge clamp dealies like norm uses. You clamp it to the fence and there is a
channel that the laminate slides into. You gotta do a little math for
setting your width but it sure works slick.
SH

I like the overlapping idea cutting it with a
router(http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm )... the edges may
not be perfectly straight, but they will both be the exact same
shape...


"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I am making Norm's Router Station.(
> http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct3.cgi?813). The top has high pressure
> laminate (like melamine) bonded to it. The dimensions of the top are such
> that I would have had to buy a 4' x 8' sheet to have a single piece to bond
> to the top so instead I got two pieces 2' x 4'. I need to cut both sheets
> and here is my question.
>
>
>
> I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
> cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
> with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The second
> approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
> melamine from slipping under the fence (see
> ). I'd like some input from the
> readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.
>
>
>
> TIA.
>
>
>
> Dick Snyder

Dick Snyder wrote:
>
> I am making Norm's Router Station.(
> http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct3.cgi?813). The top has high pressure
> laminate (like melamine) bonded to it. The dimensions of the top are such
> that I would have had to buy a 4' x 8' sheet to have a single piece to bond
> to the top so instead I got two pieces 2' x 4'. I need to cut both sheets
> and here is my question.
>
> I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
> cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
> with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The second
> approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
> melamine from slipping under the fence (see
> http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm). I'd like some input from the
> readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder

Caveat: use a 40T or better saw blade

Another method that works seems a little weird but does the same
thing as a scoring blade on a higher end tables saw. Set your saw
blade a little over 1/32nd of an inch above the table top. Feed the
material from the back towards the front of the saw table, making
a very light scoring cut through the top kayer of the melamine/
high pressure laminate. Turn off the saw, raise the blade to your
cutting height and feed the stock to the blade from the front
like normal.

charlie b

charlie b wrote:

> Caveat: use a 40T or better saw blade
>
> Another method that works seems a little weird but does the same
> thing as a scoring blade on a higher end tables saw. Set your saw
> blade a little over 1/32nd of an inch above the table top. Feed the
> material from the back towards the front of the saw table, making
> a very light scoring cut through the top kayer of the melamine/
> high pressure laminate. Turn off the saw, raise the blade to your
> cutting height and feed the stock to the blade from the front
> like normal.
>
> charlie b

SORRY! This SHOULD NOT be done on thin stuff like formica. It
does work on 1/2" and 3/4" formica faced stuff and melamine.
Read what I expected to read rather than what was actually
there. Another Thinko (mental equivalent of a typo).

charlie b

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:06:23 -0400, "Dick Snyder"
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

>I am making Norm's Router Station.(
>http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct3.cgi?813). The top has high pressure
>laminate (like melamine) bonded to it. The dimensions of the top are such
>that I would have had to buy a 4' x 8' sheet to have a single piece to bond
>to the top so instead I got two pieces 2' x 4'. I need to cut both sheets
>and here is my question.

I've heard that you can break it like glass. Score the top,
set the scored area over a very sharp edge, and snap. If I
were to try that, I'd put a piece of MDF over the top to hold
the laminate down, rest another on top of the piece to snap,
and push quickly and smoothly. Read below how I recently cut
some--the more conservative way.


>I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
>cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
>with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The second
>approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
>melamine from slipping under the fence (see
>http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm). I'd like some input from the
>readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.

When I did the kitchen counters, I got an extra piece of laminate
in the same pattern of the preformed sinktop I bought. The two small
2 x 2.5' counters on the stove side of the kitchen got new tops. I
used the 18T Ryobi cordless circular saw on the laminate (upside down
to cut) and cut 1/4" oversize. I glued the side strips on and used a
router with a laminate trimmer bit to trim the top, glued the top on,
let it dry, and trimmed that flush with the sides.

The coarse, 18-tooth 5-1/2" circ saw did a great job with very little
chipout. I set the laminate good-side-down on scrap plywood, set the
saw blade 1/16" deeper than the thickness of the laminate, and cut
quickly and smoothly using a StrateCut(tm) aloonimuminum guide.

It was then that I learned how quickly a battery pack gets sucked
dead by the saw. They last a whole lot longer on the drill motor.


-------------------------------------------------
- Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------

In article <[email protected]>, "Slowhand" <I'm@work> wrote:
>
>"Jeffrey Thunder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>> Why not? I've cut high pressure laminate ("Formica") many times
>> on a table saw with excellent results. I never felt like I was
>> "screwing around" at all.
>
>Ditto here. I use a Freud laminate blade with stellar results. Cuts like
>butter.

And here. Same blade, same results. I use an auxiliary fence of BB plywood
clamped to the rip fence to keep the Formica from running underneath, and a
featherboard clamped to the auxiliary to hold the stuff down during the cut,
and it's just as smooth as silk.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Leon wrote:
>I don't not think melamine is actually high pressure laminate.


Technically, high pressure decorative laminates (HPDL like
Formica, Nevamar, Wilsonart, etc.) are made up of sheets of
kraft paper and a decorative face that are bonded with
resins under great pressure and then finished off with a
layer of melamine.

Melamine, as generically referred to here/the wreck, is a
man made panel stock finished with a layer of melamine on
one or both faces.

One is used with/on both but neither is the same as the
other.

Just in case anyone was wondering/paying attention/cares.

UA100

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>>So are we agreeing that melamine by it self is not HPDL, but just one part
>>or ingredient of HPDL?
>
>
> I'm not sure, that we are agreeing that is.

LOL... I was indicating the Melamine was not High pressure laminate. IIRC
you indicated that Melamine was an ingrediant of High pressure laminate. I
read that as I lerned something here but I was not wrong.


>>I always pictured it this way years ago up until I purchased it with out
>>the
>>wood material attached. Edge banding.


> We call that PVC.

Really? This stuff I used for edge banding is real thin and looked exactly
like the white Melamine. It was sold right beside the Melamine covered
boards.
>
> UA100

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>>Really? This stuff I used for edge banding is real thin and looked
>>exactly
>>like the white Melamine. It was sold right beside the Melamine covered
>>boards.
>
>
> That sounds like PVC. It's available in most nearly all the
> plastic laminate colors. Unless you've found something I've
> never seen I'd bet it's PVC.


You are probably right. Does what you have seen have the same texture?
Once applied, I looks just like the top and bottom of the Melamine boards.
Trims with a razor blade or chisel. Also what I have seen is only in white
although that may be the only color that the store stocks.

In article <[email protected]>, "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
>cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
>with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The second
>approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
>melamine from slipping under the fence (see
>http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm). I'd like some input from the
>readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.

Third approach: score it deeply on the *face* with a utility knife or carbide
scoring tool, and snap it. Just like cutting glass, except that you bend it
*up* toward the score instead of down away from it. This works best if you
clamp a board across the laminate to use as your straightedge for scoring,
then leave it clamped in place while you bend the sheet upward to make the
snap. Wear ear protection. The snap is sudden and LOUD.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>>I don't not think melamine is actually high pressure laminate.
>
>
> Technically, high pressure decorative laminates (HPDL like
> Formica, Nevamar, Wilsonart, etc.) are made up of sheets of
> kraft paper and a decorative face that are bonded with
> resins under great pressure and then finished off with a
> layer of melamine.

So are we agreeing that melamine by it self is not HPDL, but just one part
or ingredient of HPDL?
But given you sescription, of sheets of kraft paper and a decorative face
that are bonded with resins under great pressure and then finished off with
a layer of melemine, is that melamine layer clear so that the decorative
face can show through?

> Melamine, as generically referred to here/the wreck, is a
> man made panel stock finished with a layer of melamine on
> one or both faces.

I always pictured it this way years ago up until I purchased it with out the
wood material attached. Edge banding.

> One is used with/on both but neither is the same as the
> other.
>
> Just in case anyone was wondering/paying attention/cares.
>
> UA100

Straightedge, router and 1/8 router bit. No chipping.
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am making Norm's Router Station.(
> http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct3.cgi?813). The top has high pressure
> laminate (like melamine) bonded to it. The dimensions of the top are such
> that I would have had to buy a 4' x 8' sheet to have a single piece to
bond
> to the top so instead I got two pieces 2' x 4'. I need to cut both sheets
> and here is my question.
>
>
>
> I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
> cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
> with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The
second
> approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
> melamine from slipping under the fence (see
> http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm). I'd like some input from the
> readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.
>
>
>
> TIA.
>
>
>
> Dick Snyder
>
>

"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
> cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
> with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The
> second approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to
> prevent the melamine from slipping under the fence (see
> http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm). I'd like some input from the
> readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.


I don't not think melamine is actually high pressure laminate. But any way
I have had great success cutting both with a sharp TS blade, Forrest WWII
actually, and also great success using a metal cutting blade in a jig saw.
The tiny teeth cut very smoothly without chipping.

Better yet, glue it down and trim the excess with a flush trim router bit.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> "Dick Snyder" Writes:
>> approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
>
> Don't even attempt to screw around with this one.

Why not? I've cut high pressure laminate ("Formica") many times
on a table saw with excellent results. I never felt like I was
"screwing around" at all.

--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu

In article <[email protected]>,
Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> writes:
> I have been unsuccessful in cutting melamine covered particle board
> without chip-out, even with Freud's ulitimate melamine saw blade, tape

Have you tried the backward-feed scoring cut charlie b described in
his reply? In my experience, the results are very good.

> If you mean high pressure laminate like Arborite or Formica, the same
> principle applies. I cut oversize on table saw, glue it on & then trim
> it using a bearing guided straight bit on the router.

I think this is standard operating procedure, though I get no chip-out
when cutting high pressure laminate on a table saw.

--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:06:23 -0400, "Dick Snyder"
<[email protected]> scribbled:

>I am making Norm's Router Station.(
>http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct3.cgi?813). The top has high pressure
>laminate (like melamine) bonded to it. The dimensions of the top are such
>that I would have had to buy a 4' x 8' sheet to have a single piece to bond
>to the top so instead I got two pieces 2' x 4'. I need to cut both sheets
>and here is my question.
>
>
>
>I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
>cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
>with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The second
>approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
>melamine from slipping under the fence (see
>http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm). I'd like some input from the
>readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.

I have been unsuccessful in cutting melamine covered particle board
without chip-out, even with Freud's ulitimate melamine saw blade, tape
etc.. When absolutely no chip out is essential, I cut about 1/8"
oversize on the table saw and then trim it to size using a router with
a straight bit and a straight-edge to guide the router.

If you mean high pressure laminate like Arborite or Formica, the same
principle applies. I cut oversize on table saw, glue it on & then trim
it using a bearing guided straight bit on the router.

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html

Leon wrote:
>So are we agreeing that melamine by it self is not HPDL, but just one part
>or ingredient of HPDL?


I'm not sure, that we are agreeing that is.


>I always pictured it this way years ago up until I purchased it with out the
>wood material attached. Edge banding.


We call that PVC.

UA100

Leon wrote:
>You are probably right. Does what you have seen have the same texture?

Well, it has the texture of PVC.

>Once applied, I looks just like the top and bottom of the Melamine boards.
>Trims with a razor blade or chisel. Also what I have seen is only in white
>although that may be the only color that the store stocks.

http://www.doellken-woodtape.com/products/pvc_edge.htm

UA100

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Todd) wrote:
>I like the overlapping idea cutting it with a
>router(http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm )... the edges may
>not be perfectly straight, but they will both be the exact same
>shape...
>
For that matter, you can trim it with a block plane and a scraper, too.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Leon wrote:
>Really? This stuff I used for edge banding is real thin and looked exactly
>like the white Melamine. It was sold right beside the Melamine covered
>boards.


That sounds like PVC. It's available in most nearly all the
plastic laminate colors. Unless you've found something I've
never seen I'd bet it's PVC.

UA100

"Dick Snyder" Writes:


> I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
> cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
> with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The
second
> approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to prevent the
> melamine from slipping under the fence.
<snip>

Don't even attempt to screw around with this one.

Find a cabinet refacing shop in your area that has an edge cutting machine
for laminate.

Used to cut strips of laminate from a full sheet.

Basically, it uses a couple of rollers to break the material on a straight
line.

No way in hell can you duplicate the cut it will make.

Go with a cold 12 pack, late in the afternoon.

You should be good to go.

HTH


Lew

On 30 Sep 2004 15:31:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jeffrey
Thunder) scribbled:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]> writes:
>> I have been unsuccessful in cutting melamine covered particle board
>> without chip-out, even with Freud's ulitimate melamine saw blade, tape
>
>Have you tried the backward-feed scoring cut charlie b described in
>his reply? In my experience, the results are very good.

Yes, very good but not perfect. Some very small chip-out on the top.
Even better with Freud's "ultimate melamine saw blade". But, again,
not perfect. Trimming with a router works perfectly though.

>> If you mean high pressure laminate like Arborite or Formica, the same
>> principle applies. I cut oversize on table saw, glue it on & then trim
>> it using a bearing guided straight bit on the router.
>
>I think this is standard operating procedure, though I get no chip-out
>when cutting high pressure laminate on a table saw.

Actually, I cut oversize mainly to avoid errors in placing the
laminate over the substrate. So I haven't really looked for chip-out.
But don't make it too large as this can lead to very large chip-outs
(DAMHIKT).

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html

For about four bucks at HD you can buy an HPL scoring knife.

Using that knife, score the laminate on the TOP (i.e. the show side), using
reasonable pressure, guided by a straightedge of some sort (I have found
that applying my body weight to "clamp" a straight board to the laminate
laying on the floor works well).

Then bend the waste side of the scored laminate toward you. This will take
some effort, but it will eventually snap the off the waste piece with a
bang. You will be surprised at how nice a "cut" you get.

/rick.


"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am making Norm's Router Station.(
>http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct3.cgi?813). The top has high pressure
>laminate (like melamine) bonded to it. The dimensions of the top are such
>that I would have had to buy a 4' x 8' sheet to have a single piece to bond
>to the top so instead I got two pieces 2' x 4'. I need to cut both sheets
>and here is my question.
>
>
>
> I have searched the web and there seem to be two general approaches to
> cutting this stuff. One is to score it deeply on the back and then cut it
> with a jig saw maybe using masking tape to minimize the chip out. The
> second approach seems to be to do it with a table saw taking care to
> prevent the melamine from slipping under the fence (see
> http://www.cabinetmaking.com/laminate.htm). I'd like some input from the
> readers on this group as to the way that has worked best for you.
>
>
>
> TIA.
>
>
>
> Dick Snyder
>
>