Anyone have a well defined process for taking good photos of furniture and
other woodworking projects? I took numerous photos of the Shaker style
sewing chest of drawers I had at Woodworker's Showcase in Saratoga Springs a
couple weeks ago in an attempt to get good photos. I have yet to get any
photos that do the chest's workmanship or the figure of the curly maple top
justice...
I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's class
for good photos--Fuji Finepix 3800. I've taken some really nice photos of
people, landscapes, etc., but getting pictures that really show the detail
of my woodworking projects escapes me. Anyone got a reliable process?
John
> I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's
class
> for good photos--Fuji Finepix 3800. I've taken some really nice photos of
> people, landscapes, etc., but getting pictures that really show the detail
> of my woodworking projects escapes me. Anyone got a reliable process?
Lighting is the key. It doesn't matter how well composed the photo is,
unless it's properly lit it's not going to look good.
To start with, don't use the on-camera flash. Use bounced light instead.
If you have one or two 500 watt floodlights, try aiming them at the wall and
ceiling a bit behind you and off to the side. The idea is to light the
object with bounced light only and avoid any direct light. You'll have to
adjust the white balance for tungsten lighting. You can light small objects
by placing them near a window (but not in a sunny window), with a large
white board or piece of styrofoam placed near the shadow side to provide
some fill.
There's a lot more ideas I can offer, but I'd suggest you go to the library
and browse through some photographic lighting books. A picture speaks a
thousand words. You'll see examples of different kinds of lighting compared.
To take your photos you don't need any fancy studio equipment or gidgets. A
500 watt shoplight bounced off a white piece of posterboard, styrofoam, or
even a wall is the functional equivalent of an umbrella or softbox.
> All good advice. But the softbox and umbrella are a lot easier to
manipulate.
But you have to go out and buy them, along with the appropriate hotlights.
One decent softbox, stand, and lamp will cost more than his camera.
> First, we don't know what kind of controls John's 3.2 MP camera has. If it
has
> auto white balance, and no manual, he may have problems. Same with focus.
He
> needs some form of manual focus to lock the focus right on that dovetail
or
> grain figure. He can use halogen shop lights for floods, if he has white
> balance control.
I would hope so. Any camera that lacks white balance for incandescent lights
is pretty useless.
> He might also use a space blanket to help point up highlights
> in the hardware...for larger areas; Reynolds wrap also makes a good
reflector.
> As you note, the best general reflector is a lightweight white board.
Styrofoam
> comes in 4' x 8' sheets and weighs next to zip. Using the 2" thick stuff,
if
> you plan to shoot more than a couple photos with it, is a good idea
because the
> 1" breaks too easily (if you're not as clumsy as I am, this may not
matter).
There's a bit of a parallel here with woodworking tools. It's nice to have
purpose built tools, but you can improvise a lot of the tools you need. Like
you say, styro and foil work well. So does a white wall, white sheets, white
posterboards. Posterboards are cheap enough that one could get a selection
of white, silver, and gold foil for under $10, and they'll be fine for
lighting smaller items.
> A quck check shows the Fuji 3800 does NOT have manual focus (and the LCD
is so
> grainy it wouldn't matter if it did). It does have a white balance
over-ride
> and 7 settings, though I don't know what they are from the precis.
>
> Essentially, without a manual focus, that camera will NEVER do what John
wants.
I think he was just looking for a few quick tips to get some better shots.
If wants professional quality promo shots of his work, especially prints,
he's going to have to hire a photographer with the know-how and equipment.
mp responds:
>> All good advice. But the softbox and umbrella are a lot easier to
>manipulate.
>
>But you have to go out and buy them, along with the appropriate hotlights.
>One decent softbox, stand, and lamp will cost more than his camera.
>
Hotlights? Good hotlights are no longer that much cheaper than low end studio
flash. My softbox setup, with boom and overstrong stand did cost more than his
camera, without the White Lightning 10,000 inside it. Later this year, I hope
to add a couple more lights to replace the 20 year old Spiratone strobe I
bounce off an umbrella. I'd also like to be able to work with at least a
semi-decent snoot that I don't cobble up out of seamless paper.
>I think he was just looking for a few quick tips to get some better shots.
>If wants professional quality promo shots of his work, especially prints,
>he's going to have to hire a photographer with the know-how and equipment.
Well, there are certian minimums on gear, but practice is what makes a good
photographer, so there's really no need to hire a pro. Just add in a few bucks
and stir. A pro is going to cost about what a decent set-up does, for a one
time shoot. And that's a minimum charge that has to be repeated every time he
has a project to be shot.
Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote:
> mp responds:
>
> >> All good advice. But the softbox and umbrella are a lot easier to
> >manipulate.
> >
> >But you have to go out and buy them, along with the appropriate hotlights.
> >One decent softbox, stand, and lamp will cost more than his camera.
> >
>
> Hotlights? Good hotlights are no longer that much cheaper than low end studio
> flash. My softbox setup, with boom and overstrong stand did cost more than his
> camera, without the White Lightning 10,000 inside it. Later this year, I hope
> to add a couple more lights to replace the 20 year old Spiratone strobe I
> bounce off an umbrella. I'd also like to be able to work with at least a
> semi-decent snoot that I don't cobble up out of seamless paper.
>
> >I think he was just looking for a few quick tips to get some better shots.
> >If wants professional quality promo shots of his work, especially prints,
> >he's going to have to hire a photographer with the know-how and equipment.
>
> Well, there are certian minimums on gear, but practice is what makes a good
> photographer, so there's really no need to hire a pro. Just add in a few bucks
> and stir. A pro is going to cost about what a decent set-up does, for a one
> time shoot. And that's a minimum charge that has to be repeated every time he
> has a project to be shot.
>
> Charlie Self
> "It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
Charlie is right on using strobes. Consistency is what it's all about.
Halogen is second best, but the lights all age and if you use more than
one, you can have several lights all of different color, though around
3200 kelvin. Strobe is more or less 5600-6000 kelvin and like daylight.
The LAST thing you really want is to use overcast daylite. The light
changes, the color balance is cool and it changes as you shoot sometimes.
While some of the lighting equipment has gotten cheaper, one way to save
on a soft box if you can't afford one of the fabric boxes is to make a
frame from PVC and cover it with translucent shower curtain. That will
yellow over time, but is cheap to replace. You can put halogen or strobe
behind it, you can move it etc. One way to support it is to get one of
those small metal paint buckets, and put a 1 x2 in it embedded in some
cement. It won't move and you can clamp lots of things to it and it's
cheap to make several in an afternoon.
But if you're going to do an amount of photos, invest in a strobe of
enough power to at least give you ONE powerful light source. With the
frame and some reflectors you can do a lot. There is a LOT of used photo
equipment with so many studios closing today. The day of the cheap,
royalty free photo and the corporations not wanting to pay for anything
is or has taken its toll. I'd say much stuff is available for .10 on the
dollar.
Stay away from using multiple light sources. The amateur won't handle
that well when even the pros have trouble. Remember, there is only ONE
SUN in the sky!
While you can use foamcoare, don't dismiss matte silver cards. You can
find them in an art supply store here and there. Some photo stores have
them too.
Many say get white paper for small stuff to shoot on. A better
re-useable choice might be white formica. You can roll it up. Best of
all you can "sweep" it out along a table and wall to make a seamless
background. That way you can have your product in the front, lit and a
darker shadow in back, all the way to black if you do it right. Best of
all don't bash it and it can be cleaned to stay white with household
cleaners.
Got small stuff? Well the formica is perfect even in colors. Want it to
look even better? Clean the formica then wipe it with some "Liquid Gold"
and polish it in. The surface will have a sheen and produce some nice,
subtle reflections in the foreground that will be stronger the lower the
camera angle.
If you're going to use film, I'd use Fuji. It's far more consistent and
such than the Kodak products. Provia needs little color correction with
strobes if your box has silver inside which also gives better color
saturation than white boxes while giving you more light.
I've had a studio in Chicago since 1976 and done food to cars, including
furniture and rooms. Theres more of course, but it would take hours and
lots of posts.
But ask questions if you have them or email me.
--
Jim Polaski
"The measure of a man is what he will do
knowing he will get nothing in return."
> If he is near a large city, he may be able to rent a professional
> camera for a day. Set up all the lighting and try out with the 3800.
> Have all the pieces lined up to move into place one after the other,
> an plan the day out carefully.
The camera is the least important item, really. As long as it has the basic
functions and some manual control it'll be fine. Lighting is what he needs
to concentrate on.
mp offers:
>
>There's a lot more ideas I can offer, but I'd suggest you go to the library
>and browse through some photographic lighting books. A picture speaks a
>thousand words. You'll see examples of different kinds of lighting compared.
>To take your photos you don't need any fancy studio equipment or gidgets. A
>500 watt shoplight bounced off a white piece of posterboard, styrofoam, or
>even a wall is the functional equivalent of an umbrella or softbox
All good advice. But the softbox and umbrella are a lot easier to manipulate.
First, we don't know what kind of controls John's 3.2 MP camera has. If it has
auto white balance, and no manual, he may have problems. Same with focus. He
needs some form of manual focus to lock the focus right on that dovetail or
grain figure. He can use halogen shop lights for floods, if he has white
balance control. He might also use a space blanket to help point up highlights
in the hardware...for larger areas; Reynolds wrap also makes a good reflector.
As you note, the best general reflector is a lightweight white board. Styrofoam
comes in 4' x 8' sheets and weighs next to zip. Using the 2" thick stuff, if
you plan to shoot more than a couple photos with it, is a good idea because the
1" breaks too easily (if you're not as clumsy as I am, this may not matter).
A quck check shows the Fuji 3800 does NOT have manual focus (and the LCD is so
grainy it wouldn't matter if it did). It does have a white balance over-ride
and 7 settings, though I don't know what they are from the precis.
Essentially, without a manual focus, that camera will NEVER do what John wants.
Charlie Self
"It is not strange... to mistake change for progress." Millard Fillmore
On 07 Apr 2004 10:19:38 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>mp offers:
>
>>
>>There's a lot more ideas I can offer, but I'd suggest you go to the library
>>and browse through some photographic lighting books. A picture speaks a
>>thousand words. You'll see examples of different kinds of lighting compared.
>>To take your photos you don't need any fancy studio equipment or gidgets. A
>>500 watt shoplight bounced off a white piece of posterboard, styrofoam, or
>>even a wall is the functional equivalent of an umbrella or softbox
>
>All good advice. But the softbox and umbrella are a lot easier to manipulate.
>
>First, we don't know what kind of controls John's 3.2 MP camera has. If it has
>auto white balance, and no manual, he may have problems. Same with focus. He
>needs some form of manual focus to lock the focus right on that dovetail or
>grain figure. He can use halogen shop lights for floods, if he has white
>balance control. He might also use a space blanket to help point up highlights
>in the hardware...for larger areas; Reynolds wrap also makes a good reflector.
>As you note, the best general reflector is a lightweight white board. Styrofoam
>comes in 4' x 8' sheets and weighs next to zip. Using the 2" thick stuff, if
>you plan to shoot more than a couple photos with it, is a good idea because the
>1" breaks too easily (if you're not as clumsy as I am, this may not matter).
>
>A quck check shows the Fuji 3800 does NOT have manual focus (and the LCD is so
>grainy it wouldn't matter if it did). It does have a white balance over-ride
>and 7 settings, though I don't know what they are from the precis.
>
>Essentially, without a manual focus, that camera will NEVER do what John wants.
>
If he is near a large city, he may be able to rent a professional
camera for a day. Set up all the lighting and try out with the 3800.
Have all the pieces lined up to move into place one after the other,
an plan the day out carefully.
Then rent the camera and get your money's worth out of it.
But start by studying books on photographic lighting.
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the
simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
- Richard Dawkins, "Viruses of the Mind"
> Watch the distance of the surface you are bouncing off of too. If it is to
> high you might as well not use it.
I'd like to elaborate a bit further on this point, as it's important. The
size of the light source in relation to the subject is what determines how
hard or soft the light will appear. The larger the light source, the softer
the light. When photographing woodwork, it's generally best to flood the
item with soft, diffuse light, especially if the item has any pronounced
sheen to it.
For most people without photographic lighting gear, an easy way to do this
is to shine bright lights (like $10 halogen shop lights) against a light
coloured wall or ceiling. In order to have a large light source, you'll need
to position the light some distance back from the wall. Five to ten feet
would probably be good. The lights should also be aimed high on the wall, at
the wall/ceiling juncture. This way you'd have some side lighting and some
overhead lighting. Position the lights so they're a bit off to the side, 45
degrees or so is good to start with. If you use more than one light, try to
slightly vary the brightness of each light so that the different surfaces of
the item being photographed are lit with different amounts of light. Anyone
who's tried photographing woodwork with direct flash will be amazed at the
improvement a change in lighting will make.
Try this link
http://www.geocities.com/borhan_azimi/Files/electronics/lights.html
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone have a well defined process for taking good photos of furniture and
> other woodworking projects? I took numerous photos of the Shaker style
> sewing chest of drawers I had at Woodworker's Showcase in Saratoga Springs
a
> couple weeks ago in an attempt to get good photos. I have yet to get any
> photos that do the chest's workmanship or the figure of the curly maple
top
> justice...
>
> I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's
class
> for good photos--Fuji Finepix 3800. I've taken some really nice photos of
> people, landscapes, etc., but getting pictures that really show the detail
> of my woodworking projects escapes me. Anyone got a reliable process?
>
> John
>
>
"mp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's
> class
> > for good photos--Fuji Finepix 3800. I've taken some really nice photos
of
> > people, landscapes, etc., but getting pictures that really show the
detail
> > of my woodworking projects escapes me. Anyone got a reliable process?
>
> Lighting is the key. It doesn't matter how well composed the photo is,
> unless it's properly lit it's not going to look good.
>
> To start with, don't use the on-camera flash. Use bounced light instead.
>
> If you have one or two 500 watt floodlights, try aiming them at the wall
and
> ceiling a bit behind you and off to the side. The idea is to light the
> object with bounced light only and avoid any direct light. You'll have to
> adjust the white balance for tungsten lighting. You can light small
objects
> by placing them near a window (but not in a sunny window), with a large
> white board or piece of styrofoam placed near the shadow side to provide
> some fill.
>
> There's a lot more ideas I can offer, but I'd suggest you go to the
library
> and browse through some photographic lighting books. A picture speaks a
> thousand words. You'll see examples of different kinds of lighting
compared.
> To take your photos you don't need any fancy studio equipment or gidgets.
A
> 500 watt shoplight bounced off a white piece of posterboard, styrofoam, or
> even a wall is the functional equivalent of an umbrella or softbox.
>
>
Good advise. . . . . BUT beware bouncing light can cause as many problems as
direct flash if you do it the wrong way! If you do not have a neutral
surface to bounce off of you are introducing the color of that surface into
the scene. Lets say you have a red wall you are bouncing off of onto a green
surface the color will turn muddy on the green surface.
Watch the distance of the surface you are bouncing off of too. If it is to
high you might as well not use it.
Roy
John Grossbohlin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anyone have a well defined process for taking good photos of furniture and
> other woodworking projects?
> I took numerous photos of the Shaker style
> sewing chest of drawers
Well defined procedure for product photography? Not usually.
One thing you might try is getting one of those large fold out white
reflectors. They're nice because they fold up to a small size and can be
flexed to adjust the light. (They work realllly well for hoomans too).
Try a shot with indirect light to one side and the reflector just out of
the frame on the other side (to fill).
Alternately, have light shining directly on the reflector and use it as
the light source.
You could just use an old white bedsheet if you want to see if the
general idea is helpful.
Also, keep your camera perpindicular even if it means the chest is not
in the center of the frame. Move the camera position back if necessary.
Then crop your picture.
It would also be helpful if you posted a picture you are unsatisfied
with to ABPW.
"joe smigiel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> John Grossbohlin wrote:
> >
> >
> > I kind of like the outdoors idea as I've gotten some really good photos
with
> > this camera outdoors. However, given the nearly constant overcast days
we've
> > had around here this year, and the fact that I have to work for a
living, it
> > could take weeks if not months to get ideal conditions that match up to
my
> > available time!
> >
> >
>
> John,
>
> I came to the thread late, but have seen many very helpful suggestions.
> The key to lighting contrast is contained in the post by "MP" from
> which I now quote:
>
> "I'd like to elaborate a bit further on this point, as it's important. The
> size of the light source in relation to the subject is what determines how
> hard or soft the light will appear. The larger the light source, the
softer
> the light. When photographing woodwork, it's generally best to flood the
> item with soft, diffuse light, especially if the item has any pronounced
> sheen to it."
>
> You mention above that you like some idea of outdoor shooting (which I
> missed so I'm not exactly sure of the context but) I think you will find
> that an overcast sky or photographing in the "open shade" of a building
> so that only skylight and not direct sunlight illuminates your piece
> will lend a very nice diffused lighting effect. The overcast sky or
> open skylight is a huge lighting source and, as MP has stated, will
> result in a very soft light. That's all photographers are trying to do
> when they employ large reflectors, bounce light from ceiling or walls,
> use umbrellas, etc. They are tryin to make the light source bigger (and
> thus "softer" or less contrasty). The sky is the biggest soft box and
> it is free. A sunny day is usually a poorer choice for photographing
> especially when the sun is high overhead during midday.
>
> The problem with shooting on overcast days or using skylight as the
> source is that the light is very blue (has a "high color temperature" in
> photographic terms). A digital camera with a white balance control or
> warming filter (one of the filters in the designation 85 series) for the
> lens will take care of the excessive blue cast. You might want to add
> some light from a smaller daylight-balanced source such as electronic
> flash or blue photoflood to add some local contrast to parts of your
> piece if shot under overall diffused skylight or overcast conditions. A
> smaller light raking over the surface at a low angle will add a sense
> of relief and texture when balanced with the overall diffused source.
>
> Joe
Joe,
Thanks for the additional comments. From the feed back I don't think I
articulated the weather pattern well by saying "overcast." Cloudy, windy and
drizzly are terms that more accurately describe the weather. Any kind of
light-duty light-reflectors would likely be blown over or away... and things
would probably get wet if I didn't move quick! It's the kind of weather that
goes right to your bones... Perhaps in a few more weeks, as spring develops
and moves towards summer, outdoor efforts would work out.
Regarding shooting indoors using natural light I might be able to pull
something like that off in the "playroom" if I moved all of the toys,
bicycles, etc. out of the way. Just the thought of making room in that room
makes me tired! ;-) I'm starting to feel that I'm on a mission though and
will explore how to pull it off efficiently in that space...
John
Photography is all about light.
I suspect you are shooting your woodwork porjects indoors?
Get them outdoors in natural light and you might notice a big difference.
Otherwise you need to rig up some good powered lighting in your shop to get
better photos.
--
Regards,
Dean Bielanowski
Editor,
Online Tool Reviews
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com
Over 50 woodworking product reviews online!
------------------------------------------------------------
Latest 5 Reviews:
- Veritas Power Tool Guide
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------------------------------------------------------------
John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
>
> I kind of like the outdoors idea as I've gotten some really good photos with
> this camera outdoors. However, given the nearly constant overcast days we've
> had around here this year, and the fact that I have to work for a living, it
> could take weeks if not months to get ideal conditions that match up to my
> available time!
>
>
John,
I came to the thread late, but have seen many very helpful suggestions.
The key to lighting contrast is contained in the post by "MP" from
which I now quote:
"I'd like to elaborate a bit further on this point, as it's important. The
size of the light source in relation to the subject is what determines how
hard or soft the light will appear. The larger the light source, the softer
the light. When photographing woodwork, it's generally best to flood the
item with soft, diffuse light, especially if the item has any pronounced
sheen to it."
You mention above that you like some idea of outdoor shooting (which I
missed so I'm not exactly sure of the context but) I think you will find
that an overcast sky or photographing in the "open shade" of a building
so that only skylight and not direct sunlight illuminates your piece
will lend a very nice diffused lighting effect. The overcast sky or
open skylight is a huge lighting source and, as MP has stated, will
result in a very soft light. That's all photographers are trying to do
when they employ large reflectors, bounce light from ceiling or walls,
use umbrellas, etc. They are tryin to make the light source bigger (and
thus "softer" or less contrasty). The sky is the biggest soft box and
it is free. A sunny day is usually a poorer choice for photographing
especially when the sun is high overhead during midday.
The problem with shooting on overcast days or using skylight as the
source is that the light is very blue (has a "high color temperature" in
photographic terms). A digital camera with a white balance control or
warming filter (one of the filters in the designation 85 series) for the
lens will take care of the excessive blue cast. You might want to add
some light from a smaller daylight-balanced source such as electronic
flash or blue photoflood to add some local contrast to parts of your
piece if shot under overall diffused skylight or overcast conditions. A
smaller light raking over the surface at a low angle will add a sense
of relief and texture when balanced with the overall diffused source.
Joe
"DLGlos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:50 -0700, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
---snip snip---
> The other issue that crops up is color balance, Experience and a good
> eye are great, but you can cheat a bit by learning to "color balance
> by the numbers." See the following site for a more complete
> explanation:
> http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=101197&seqNum=6
>
> It does help to be in the ball park to start. Look in your camera
> manual to see if you can set a manual white balance. If you can, set
> your balance off of a couple sheets of "white" paper ( laserjet paper
> with a brightness in low 90's from Office Depot, Staples, etc.; normal
> copier paper is too yellow, and the ultra bright papers have optical
> brightners that can give you fits).
>
> You can also make a small white/grey/black target. These should be
> non-reflective.
....good stuff. Every once in a while someone takes the time to offer some
good, useful information and this is one of those times...thanks a bunch.
Larry
"p_j" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1gbv6uy.1lxjkhers26o0N%[email protected]...
> John Grossbohlin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Anyone have a well defined process for taking good photos of furniture
and
> > other woodworking projects?
>
> > I took numerous photos of the Shaker style
> > sewing chest of drawers
>
> Well defined procedure for product photography? Not usually.
>
> One thing you might try is getting one of those large fold out white
> reflectors. They're nice because they fold up to a small size and can be
> flexed to adjust the light. (They work realllly well for hoomans too).
>
> Try a shot with indirect light to one side and the reflector just out of
> the frame on the other side (to fill).
>
> Alternately, have light shining directly on the reflector and use it as
> the light source.
>
> You could just use an old white bedsheet if you want to see if the
> general idea is helpful.
>
> Also, keep your camera perpindicular even if it means the chest is not
> in the center of the frame. Move the camera position back if necessary.
> Then crop your picture.
>
> It would also be helpful if you posted a picture you are unsatisfied
> with to ABPW.
I posted a picture there last evening. It was of the top of the chest of
drawers I had at Woodworker's Showcase in Saratoga Springs, NY last month. I
had previously posted some pictures I took at Showcase but even I understood
the lighting conditions there were horrible. On top of that the finish
looked splotchy in the flash because it wasn't evenly dry! I'll repost the
top... items don't seem to stay on that news group long.
There was definitely a theme in the responses to my original inquiry.
Lighting!
I kind of like the outdoors idea as I've gotten some really good photos with
this camera outdoors. However, given the nearly constant overcast days we've
had around here this year, and the fact that I have to work for a living, it
could take weeks if not months to get ideal conditions that match up to my
available time!
The reflector and indirect lighting techniques should be doable with things
I've got around the house. I'll give that approach a whirl.
I'm not looking to become a professional photographer but it would be nice
to get decent photos of things that I've taken a lot of care in making. It
looks like some reading on lighting is needed. The couple of books I have on
photography and digital photography deal more with choosing cameras and
editing the output in Photoshop than they do with actually taking pictures
and lighting techniques...
Thanks,
John
John Grossbohlin notes:
>
>There was definitely a theme in the responses to my original inquiry.
>Lighting!
>
>I kind of like the outdoors idea as I've gotten some really good photos with
>this camera outdoors. However, given the nearly constant overcast days we've
>had around here this year, and the fact that I have to work for a living, it
>could take weeks if not months to get ideal conditions that match up to my
>available time!
Go for the overcast. As long as it's not raining, overcast is best, as it
reduces harsh shadow, thus reduces the need for bouncing light every which way.
Even light is a help, and you can use reflectors to pick up what isn't lighted
well, without having to worry about whether or not the sensor can capture that
range of light (digital sensors do not yet capture detail in as broad a range
as do fine grain films...almost, not quite).
Charlie Self
"Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped
teething." Mark Twain
Thanks for your input to say nothing of your time , very informative and
appreciated by myself at least .....mjh
--
http://members.tripod.com/mikehide2
"DLGlos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:50 -0700, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's
> >class
huge snip
> There are some good product shot type books out there. Again check
> your library. Don't worry if they are primarily film based. The
> fundamentals aren't any different.
>
> A little patience helps.
>
> David Glos
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:16:40 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>I posted a picture there last evening. It was of the top of the chest of
>drawers I had at Woodworker's Showcase in Saratoga Springs, NY last month. I
>had previously posted some pictures I took at Showcase but even I understood
>the lighting conditions there were horrible. On top of that the finish
>looked splotchy in the flash because it wasn't evenly dry! I'll repost the
>top... items don't seem to stay on that news group long.
>
>There was definitely a theme in the responses to my original inquiry.
>Lighting!
>
>I kind of like the outdoors idea as I've gotten some really good photos with
>this camera outdoors. However, given the nearly constant overcast days we've
>had around here this year, and the fact that I have to work for a living, it
>could take weeks if not months to get ideal conditions that match up to my
>available time!
Overcast days are PERFECT for outdoor photography, John.
>The reflector and indirect lighting techniques should be doable with things
>I've got around the house. I'll give that approach a whirl.
>
>I'm not looking to become a professional photographer but it would be nice
>to get decent photos of things that I've taken a lot of care in making. It
>looks like some reading on lighting is needed. The couple of books I have on
>photography and digital photography deal more with choosing cameras and
>editing the output in Photoshop than they do with actually taking pictures
>and lighting techniques...
Yeah, books on "how to use software to overcome noobness" abound.
I've learned a lot about how not to shoot pics with my newest
camera, a Nikon Coolpix 995 digital: It does pretty well with
lowered light but hates low light, I need a polarized filter,
a lens pen (cleaner) works great for $8, a $50 investment in
the lightweight Slic tripod was well worth it, and the cost of
studio lighting is staggering.
Here are some interesting links:
http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?LookupId=/xml/feature/2001/bjohnson0401&_requestid=33143
lighting on the cheap
http://www.zenreich.com/ZenWeb/photography/studiolighting.htm
http://www.digital-photography.org/digital_studio_equipment/FLAAR_digital_studio_Guate.html
quick tutorials
http://www.dpreview.com/
Excellent in-depth review/technique/info site!
http://www.steves-digicams.com/
http://dpfwiw.com/index.htm
http://www.photoprojects.net/ cool gadget dude (mostly macro)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If God approved of nudity, we all would have been born naked.
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
http://www.diversify.com Your Wild & Woody Website Wonk
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:04:05 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Anyone have a well defined process for taking good photos of furniture and
>other woodworking projects? I took numerous photos of the Shaker style
>sewing chest of drawers I had at Woodworker's Showcase in Saratoga Springs a
>couple weeks ago in an attempt to get good photos. I have yet to get any
>photos that do the chest's workmanship or the figure of the curly maple top
>justice...
>
>I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's class
>for good photos--Fuji Finepix 3800. I've taken some really nice photos of
>people, landscapes, etc., but getting pictures that really show the detail
>of my woodworking projects escapes me. Anyone got a reliable process?
Good composition, accurate focus, and very bright (natural?)
lighting without using direct flash if at all possible.
-------------------------------------------------
- Boldly going - * Wondrous Website Design
- nowhere. - * http://www.diversify.com
-------------------------------------------------
I feel fortunate having a north facing window for dissufed backlight
and wifes white table for cutting quilting fabrics stored under that
window. Table would be required for your chest so would be rolled out
of the way.
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 22:16:40 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The reflector and indirect lighting techniques should be doable with things
>I've got around the house. I'll give that approach a whirl.
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:50 -0700, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's
>class
>> for good photos--Fuji Finepix 3800. I've taken some really nice photos of
>> people, landscapes, etc., but getting pictures that really show the detail
>> of my woodworking projects escapes me. Anyone got a reliable process?
>
>Lighting is the key. It doesn't matter how well composed the photo is,
>unless it's properly lit it's not going to look good.
>
>To start with, don't use the on-camera flash. Use bounced light instead.
I have years of photography experience, all sorts of cameras both
analog and digital, fancy studio lights, flash meters, soft boxes,
umbrellas, the works, but you don't need any of that to make good,
maybe even great, images. The fancy toys just make it easier to make
good images any place you might be, at most any time of day. I tried
to teach my father-in-law how to use some of these nice toys to make
goodl images of his fancy pottery for e-bay sales, but it mainly
confused him. What follows is what I taught him that does work.
If you have a porch with a roof, or a large picture window, this can
be pretty easy. In good daylight, cover said window or porch exposure
with a large, white, semi-transparent cloth to diffuse the lighting.
You might want to find another large piece of opaque fabric, or studio
paper (under $35 for a large roll and its reuseable if you are
careful) to use as a backdrop. Cluttered backgrounds really detract
from a produc type shot. Pick medium, neutral tones to start.
Photograph on an axis parallel to your diffuse lighting panel. Go to
the art store and pick up some large foamcore panels. Hinge two pieces
(2'x4' for each, perhaps a little taller if your piece is taller)
together with some duct tape on the long edge. Open these up like a
dressing screen, duct tape seam to the outside, and place out of frame
on the unlit side to fill in the shadows. You can also play with
opaque panels, on the lighting side to 'flag' or block some of the
light on portions of your subject.
The above description is a bit terse, but a decent photo book that
covers lighting should have a simple diagram to get you started. A
stop at the library or a peek in the bookstore will get you started.
If not, ring back and I will forward you a .jpg line drawing.
One of the keys is good product lighting does NOT come from an on
camera flash. Getting the light off of the camera to subject axis will
give your subject depth and dimension.
The other issue that crops up is color balance, Experience and a good
eye are great, but you can cheat a bit by learning to "color balance
by the numbers." See the following site for a more complete
explanation:
http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=101197&seqNum=6
It does help to be in the ball park to start. Look in your camera
manual to see if you can set a manual white balance. If you can, set
your balance off of a couple sheets of "white" paper ( laserjet paper
with a brightness in low 90's from Office Depot, Staples, etc.; normal
copier paper is too yellow, and the ultra bright papers have optical
brightners that can give you fits).
You can also make a small white/grey/black target. These should be
non-reflective. A playing card piece of flat metal sooted up over a
smoky candle works great for black. You should buy a Kodak neutral
grey card from your camera store for the grey, and the white can be a
few layers of your clean white copier paper. Coble them together in a
small target, then tape/set/sticky tack to the object you are
photographing, make an image, then remove it and quicky take a second
shot. Use the first shot, with the target to nail your color balance.
These curve and level adjustments can then be saved and applied to the
second shot. Ideally, shoot for the following RGB values: Black,
10,10, 10, and White 245, 245, 245. The grey should end up somewhere
in the 100, 100, 100 to 150, 150, 150 range, depending on how you like
the midtones to look. Tuning the RGB values on your neutral target to
be equal will ensure proper color balance. Note: equal values on your
neutral grey is the most important. If this is a bit confusing,
please ring back. It will make sense after you walk through it a
couple of times.
A couple of other things, it helps to shoot in manual, and bracket
some shots around your indicated exposure. If you white target has any
RGB value above 250 (yes I know 255 if pure white), then your shot is
likely overexposed. Similarly, if any of the black RGB values fall
below 5 then you are underexposed.
Next, use a tripod,a cheapy is fine for this purpose, and use the
camera in self timer mode. Works just like a cable release for
subjects that don't move.
If you are having problems with reflections, a polarizer might help,
although complete relief likely is not possible.
There are some good product shot type books out there. Again check
your library. Don't worry if they are primarily film based. The
fundamentals aren't any different.
A little patience helps.
David Glos
"DLGlos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:25:50 -0700, "mp" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> I'm using a 3.2 megapixal digital camera that is well regarded in it's
> >class
> >> for good photos--Fuji Finepix 3800. I've taken some really nice photos
of
> >> people, landscapes, etc., but getting pictures that really show the
detail
> >> of my woodworking projects escapes me. Anyone got a reliable process?
> >
> >Lighting is the key. It doesn't matter how well composed the photo is,
> >unless it's properly lit it's not going to look good.
> >
> >To start with, don't use the on-camera flash. Use bounced light instead.
>
> I have years of photography experience, all sorts of cameras both
> analog and digital, fancy studio lights, flash meters, soft boxes,
> umbrellas, the works, but you don't need any of that to make good,
> maybe even great, images. The fancy toys just make it easier to make
> good images any place you might be, at most any time of day. I tried
> to teach my father-in-law how to use some of these nice toys to make
> goodl images of his fancy pottery for e-bay sales, but it mainly
> confused him. What follows is what I taught him that does work.
>
> If you have a porch with a roof, or a large picture window, this can
> be pretty easy. In good daylight, cover said window or porch exposure
> with a large, white, semi-transparent cloth to diffuse the lighting.
> You might want to find another large piece of opaque fabric, or studio
> paper (under $35 for a large roll and its reuseable if you are
> careful) to use as a backdrop. Cluttered backgrounds really detract
> from a produc type shot. Pick medium, neutral tones to start.
> Photograph on an axis parallel to your diffuse lighting panel. Go to
> the art store and pick up some large foamcore panels. Hinge two pieces
> (2'x4' for each, perhaps a little taller if your piece is taller)
> together with some duct tape on the long edge. Open these up like a
> dressing screen, duct tape seam to the outside, and place out of frame
> on the unlit side to fill in the shadows. You can also play with
> opaque panels, on the lighting side to 'flag' or block some of the
> light on portions of your subject.
>
> The above description is a bit terse, but a decent photo book that
> covers lighting should have a simple diagram to get you started. A
> stop at the library or a peek in the bookstore will get you started.
> If not, ring back and I will forward you a .jpg line drawing.
>
> One of the keys is good product lighting does NOT come from an on
> camera flash. Getting the light off of the camera to subject axis will
> give your subject depth and dimension.
>
> The other issue that crops up is color balance, Experience and a good
> eye are great, but you can cheat a bit by learning to "color balance
> by the numbers." See the following site for a more complete
> explanation:
> http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=101197&seqNum=6
>
> It does help to be in the ball park to start. Look in your camera
> manual to see if you can set a manual white balance. If you can, set
> your balance off of a couple sheets of "white" paper ( laserjet paper
> with a brightness in low 90's from Office Depot, Staples, etc.; normal
> copier paper is too yellow, and the ultra bright papers have optical
> brightners that can give you fits).
>
> You can also make a small white/grey/black target. These should be
> non-reflective. A playing card piece of flat metal sooted up over a
> smoky candle works great for black. You should buy a Kodak neutral
> grey card from your camera store for the grey, and the white can be a
> few layers of your clean white copier paper. Coble them together in a
> small target, then tape/set/sticky tack to the object you are
> photographing, make an image, then remove it and quicky take a second
> shot. Use the first shot, with the target to nail your color balance.
> These curve and level adjustments can then be saved and applied to the
> second shot. Ideally, shoot for the following RGB values: Black,
> 10,10, 10, and White 245, 245, 245. The grey should end up somewhere
> in the 100, 100, 100 to 150, 150, 150 range, depending on how you like
> the midtones to look. Tuning the RGB values on your neutral target to
> be equal will ensure proper color balance. Note: equal values on your
> neutral grey is the most important. If this is a bit confusing,
> please ring back. It will make sense after you walk through it a
> couple of times.
>
> A couple of other things, it helps to shoot in manual, and bracket
> some shots around your indicated exposure. If you white target has any
> RGB value above 250 (yes I know 255 if pure white), then your shot is
> likely overexposed. Similarly, if any of the black RGB values fall
> below 5 then you are underexposed.
>
> Next, use a tripod,a cheapy is fine for this purpose, and use the
> camera in self timer mode. Works just like a cable release for
> subjects that don't move.
>
> If you are having problems with reflections, a polarizer might help,
> although complete relief likely is not possible.
>
> There are some good product shot type books out there. Again check
> your library. Don't worry if they are primarily film based. The
> fundamentals aren't any different.
>
> A little patience helps.
>
> David Glos
David,
Thanks for the points to ponder. I appreciate your effort as I'm finding
that the deeper I get into the woodworking the more design, meaning,
interpretation, and aesthetics have become important to me. The mechanical
aspects of woodworking have been gained through a ton of reading, watching,
and doing and my level of understanding of the mechanical things has come
along pretty well. Now I'd like to delve deeper into the art side of things
and capturing that on film is far more difficult than I ever imagined!
I had a very interesting conversation with Michael Puryear (see the cover
story on him in Woodwork last fall) at Woodworker's Showcase last month.
From his reaction to the discussion I think it was interesting for him too
as it didn't deal with the mechanical things that were at the center of
everything else he was asked during and after his seminars. Rather our
conversation dealt with how his back ground and interests in anthropology,
Chi, hiking, bicycling, canoeing, learning, teaching and his overall
evolution, came across loud and clear to me in his presentation. He isn't
the same person he was 10-20-30-40 years ago... I mentioned to him the sense
of frustration that I detected from Norm Abram last summer at the luncheon
as Norm explained his evolution and how people continue to slam him based on
years old reruns of NYW. Puryear commented (with a grin) that Norm still
wears his tool belt but conceded the tool belt was now more of a trademark,
a thread that ties him to his past, than anything else.
I'm not the same person either... just ask my father. He'll tell you that my
working at Colonial Williamsburg ruined me! This because I used to slam
things out with a relatively high level of workmanship and move on to the
next project, now I worry about proportions, style, form, meaning, etc.!
When he finds out I'm moving even further into the soft side of the art he
will be sure of my complete ruin. Thanks for helping my progression to
complete ruin via a better understanding of photography techniques. ;-)
John
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 21:15:48 -0400, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>David,
>>Thanks for the points to ponder. I appreciate your effort as I'm finding
>that the deeper I get into the woodworking the more design, meaning,
>interpretation, and aesthetics have become important to me. The mechanical
>aspects of woodworking have been gained through a ton of reading, watching,
>and doing and my level of understanding of the mechanical things has come
>along pretty well. Now I'd like to delve deeper into the art side of things
>and capturing that on film is far more difficult than I ever imagined!
>
>I had a very interesting conversation with Michael Puryear (see the cover
>story on him in Woodwork last fall) at Woodworker's Showcase last month.
>From his reaction to the discussion I think it was interesting for him too
>as it didn't deal with the mechanical things that were at the center of
>everything else he was asked during and after his seminars. Rather our
>conversation dealt with how his back ground and interests in anthropology,
>Chi, hiking, bicycling, canoeing, learning, teaching and his overall
>evolution, came across loud and clear to me in his presentation. He isn't
>the same person he was 10-20-30-40 years ago... I mentioned to him the sense
>of frustration that I detected from Norm Abram last summer at the luncheon
>as Norm explained his evolution and how people continue to slam him based on
>years old reruns of NYW. Puryear commented (with a grin) that Norm still
>wears his tool belt but conceded the tool belt was now more of a trademark,
>a thread that ties him to his past, than anything else.
>
>I'm not the same person either... just ask my father. He'll tell you that my
>working at Colonial Williamsburg ruined me! This because I used to slam
>things out with a relatively high level of workmanship and move on to the
>next project, now I worry about proportions, style, form, meaning, etc.!
>When he finds out I'm moving even further into the soft side of the art he
>will be sure of my complete ruin. Thanks for helping my progression to
>complete ruin via a better understanding of photography techniques. ;-)
>
>John
And thanks for the appreciation. I really enjoy passing on what I have
learned and it nice to hear that someone else might find my
information helpful. Photography, like woodworking and many, many
other activities, is technique driven. Yes, certain toys, like a
camera, film if its analog, a computer and Photoshop, GIMP, etc. if
its digital, and a tripod, are a given, the rest can be slowly added,
and need not prevent you from making great images.
Best of luck with your endevors to make images of your beautiful
furniture. Having patience to make such objects, especially by hand,
puts you about 2/3 of the way down the path to photographic
enlightenment. The marketing folks do a pretty good job convincing the
inexperienced that they can be making great images within five minutes
of picking up the newest, bestest "Wiz Bang SnapShot 2000." Of course
they might make a couple of decent shots, more by accident than
design. Its like turning a inexperienced newbie loose in a nicely
equiped shop and expecting him to make a heirloom quality chest of
drawers in the first week. Even if he has good mechanical aptitude, he
will likely be overwhelmed by both the toys and the assignment. Reduce
the tool kit to the bare minimum, and the task to something
reasonable, say turn out a nice spice box, and he just might succeed
beautifully.
Feel free to send me an e-mail if you have any specific questions. I
don't always check the list on a regular basis.
David Glos
dlglos at hotmail dot com