I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of putting
golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened - the grain
jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past contributor to this
newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had
a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood
filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain as
mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test pieces -
solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the stained grain isn't
nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto sanded oak with no wood
filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the stained wood is more
blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying more stain won't help
because the pores are filled. The only other option I can come up with is to
mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to come closer to the
cabinets I am trying to match.
Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
TIA.
Dick Snyder
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
> will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of putting
> golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened - the grain
> jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past contributor to this
> newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had
> a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood
> filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain as
> mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test pieces -
> solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the stained grain isn't
> nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto sanded oak with no wood
> filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the stained wood is more
> blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying more stain won't help
> because the pores are filled. The only other option I can come up with is to
> mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to come closer to the
> cabinets I am trying to match.
>
> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
>
>
Hi Dick,
Try doing a Google search on "glazes and toners". They are both
extremely useful in matching colors.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Dick Snyder wrote:
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Dick Snyder wrote:
>>
>>>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that
>>>it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>>>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>>>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>>>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain
>>>with a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat
>>>here. I bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors
>>>book) and mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max
>>>dilution. I did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good
>>>news is that the stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it
>>>directly onto sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me
>>>anyway), is that the stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope
>>>to match. Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled.
>>>The only other option I can come up with is to mix a darker stain into
>>>the wood filler trying to come closer to the cabinets I am trying to
>>>match.
>>>
>>>Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>>
>>>TIA.
>>>
>>>Dick Snyder
>>
>>Hi Dick,
>>
>>Try doing a Google search on "glazes and toners". They are both extremely
>>useful in matching colors.
>>
>>--
>>Jack Novak
>>Buffalo, NY - USA
>>[email protected]
>
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> I did google and I also found a section on glazes in my Flexner book. That
> sounds like a better bet than trying to mix up some combinations of pigment
> stains hoping to get a good mix with the grain filler. Do you happen to know
> stores that carry them? I have a Rocklers near me and a Woodcraft sort of
> kind of near me.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dick
>
>
For toners I normally use Behlen's Master Toner. Rockler carries them.
I know Woodcraft carries Behlen's products but I don't see the "Master
Toner" listed on their web site.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17682&cookietest=1
For glazes I mix my own, a combination of varnish and stain(s) applied
over a barrier coat of dewaxed shellac. I'll play with them on scrap
until I get the effect I want.
As always, experiment of scrap!
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Dick Snyder wrote:
> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
>>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with
>>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I
>>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I
>>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>>
>>Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>
>>TIA.
>>
>>Dick Snyder
>>
>
>
> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as usual. I
> lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my grain filler to
> get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have a match I am going to
> try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to fill the holes in the oak. I'm
> going to try Zinsser so I don't have to mix shellac from scratch.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Dick
>
>
I'd suggest Zinsser's Seal Coat as it's dewaxed. Hand applying the
shellac with a clean rag and rubbing in a little "FFFF" pumice will
greatly speed up the pore filling.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Steve Turner wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
>
>> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
>> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and
>> rubbing the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use shellac
>> alone; basically, you would be making your own uncolored filler using
>> pumice rather than silex.
>
>
> Pumice and shellac *does* make a great filler - until you try to sand it
> smooth. Since pumice too is an abrasive, the stuff is murder on sandpaper.
>
To level the finish after applying the "FFFF" pumice I use more pumice
along with a felt block:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2184
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Steve Turner wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
>
>> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
>> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and
>> rubbing the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use shellac
>> alone; basically, you would be making your own uncolored filler using
>> pumice rather than silex.
>
>
> Pumice and shellac *does* make a great filler - until you try to sand it
> smooth. Since pumice too is an abrasive, the stuff is murder on sandpaper.
>
(This may be a repeat message as the last post I made didn't seem to
show up)
After filling the grain with "FFFF" pumice if I have to level the finish
I use more pumice rubbing out with a felt block:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2184
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Dick Snyder wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:e1eabb74-2019-4963-a815-f3db4b1a2e5b@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 24, 11:49 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>>Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>
>>>TIA.
>>
>>>Dick Snyder
>>
>>You can try (without any filler needed) a dye stain. It should color
>>the wood more evenly (less dramatic grain) than a pigment stain.
>>
>>Charles
>
>
> I reread your original post and it wasn't clear to me if you were
> trying to alter something you've already stained or trying a new way
> of coloring wood from the beginning - my suggestion was for the latter.
>
> I am coloring wood from the beginning but I am trying to match the newly
> finished wood to some existing oak cabinets that look like they were stained
> with Golden Oak pigment stain. I started by mixing Golden Oak pigment stain
> with grain filler but it is too light for a match. I am trying to find a way
> (or ways) to come closer to the cabinets.
>
> Dick
>
>
If you know who manufactured the cabinets you can try giving them a
call. They often sell the stain they use just for purposes like yours.
Antoher option is to add a little bit of a darker stain to your Golden
Oak/filler mix and try again. You may have to use a combination of
different colored stains to get a match. Keep track of the ratios and
keep trying until you get the desired shade (i.e. a mostly golden, a
little brown, a dash of red).
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 12:31:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>krw wrote:
>...
>
>> Just be damned careful. ...
>
>Ayup... :)
>
> > ... Naptha ~= gasoline.
>
>Not really; naptha is much lighter fraction and mostly straight-chained
>hydrocarbon, not aromatic. Is used as additive in gasoline (and many
>other uses as well, of course)...
It's what gasoline is made from. AKA "Coleman fuel".
BTW, ~= is "about equal to".
My old DeWalt palm sander and its orbital sibling used to make
great small batches of filler for me. I'd just use their dust
collector port with a piece of muslin taped around it as a bag and
then go crazy sanding down a piece of scrap from the project I was
making. When I had enough sanding dust (yes, I also did this with
the belt sander as well), I'd untape my little bag and dump the
sanding dust into a small dish.
The project would have already been stained, and I'd dump in
enough tung oil to the sanding dust to make a spreadable slurry,
adding OIL stain to the slurry to match. I'd then spread the
slurry around on the project to fill pores or gaps, then scrape it
off using a scraper, piece of glass or even an old blade from my
planer or joiner. When bone dry, a light sanding would give me a
much smoother surface and I could then proceed with finishing.
--
Nonny
Live a good and honorable life.
Then when you get older and
think back, you'll enjoy it
a second time.
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so
>>> that it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the
>>> mistake of putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know
>>> what happened - the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes
>>> anyway). A past contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay,
>>> suggested mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had a very detailed
>>> posting which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood filler (it
>>> was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain as
>>> mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test
>>> pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>>> stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly
>>> onto sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway),
>>> is that the stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to
>>> match. Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled.
>>> The only other option I can come up with is to mix a darker stain
>>> into the wood filler trying to come closer to the cabinets I am
>>> trying to match. Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>>
>>> TIA.
>>>
>>> Dick Snyder
>>>
>> Post Script: I have finished staining my vanity. After running many
>> experiments I chose to put untinted Benwood grain filler (made by Ben
>> Moore) on the vanity I was making for NH. I should mention that it is
>> a warm brown in color which was in the direction I was heading with
>> the final Golden Oak stain. In retrospect I would have put in 25%
>> stain (the max allowed with Benwood) to just thin it out. It is thick
>> and very difficult to rub off with the recommended burlap in small
>> spaces.
>
> One can thin it. With naptha.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>
Naptha dries very quickly. Is that why you selected that versus some other
kind of thinner?
krw wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:46:55 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so
>>>> that it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the
>>>> mistake of putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you
>>>> know what happened - the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my
>>>> tastes anyway). A past contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay,
>>>> suggested mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had a very
>>>> detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood
>>>> filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25%
>>>> stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did
>>>> some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is
>>>> that the stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it
>>>> directly onto sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me
>>>> anyway), is that the stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets
>>>> I hope to match. Applying more stain won't help because the pores
>>>> are filled. The only other option I can come up with is to mix a
>>>> darker stain into the wood filler trying to come closer to the
>>>> cabinets I am trying to match. Do any of you have some ideas on
>>>> what I might do?
>>>>
>>>> TIA.
>>>>
>>>> Dick Snyder
>>>>
>>> Post Script: I have finished staining my vanity. After running many
>>> experiments I chose to put untinted Benwood grain filler (made by
>>> Ben Moore) on the vanity I was making for NH. I should mention that
>>> it is a warm brown in color which was in the direction I was
>>> heading with the final Golden Oak stain. In retrospect I would have
>>> put in 25% stain (the max allowed with Benwood) to just thin it
>>> out. It is thick and very difficult to rub off with the recommended
>>> burlap in small spaces.
>>
>> One can thin it. With naptha.
>
> Just be damned careful. Naptha ~= gasoline.
Naptha = lighter fluid. Both it and gasoline burn, naptha is much less
likely (ever?) to go BOOM (IME and I'm 76 :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 01 Nov 2009 12:31:19 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>krw wrote:
>>...
>>
>>> Just be damned careful. ...
>>
>>Ayup... :)
>>
>> > ... Naptha ~= gasoline.
>>
>>Not really; naptha is much lighter fraction and mostly straight-chained
>>hydrocarbon, not aromatic. Is used as additive in gasoline (and many
>>other uses as well, of course)...
>
> It's what gasoline is made from. AKA "Coleman fuel".
>
> BTW, ~= is "about equal to".
>
There are many variants of Naptha I have learned. In my local paint store
they sell VM&P Naptha (Varnish Makers and Painters)
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as
> usual. I lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my
> grain filler to get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have a
> match I am going to try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to fill
> the holes in the oak. I'm going to try Zinsser so I don't have to
> mix shellac from scratch.
Well, you could do that but it is going to take a *lot* of shellac...many,
many, many coats. Did I mention it will take many coats?
I suggested applying a light clear coat to seal the filler which -
presumably - is already filling the oak. Judiciously sanding that off
should then allow you to add stain to the raw wood without it being absorbed
by the filler and affecting its color.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Dick Snyder wrote:
> OK, I think I've got it. Sorry to be so dense. I will try two
> experiments and choose the best result.
>
> 1. Adding more stain after filling the wood with the filler/stain mix.
Keep in mind that the binder in your filler is varnish. That varnish is
also going to seal the whole piece of wood so - after the filler is
*totally* dry - you may have to sand lightly before the rest of the wood
will accept an appreciable amount of stain.
> 2. Filling the wood with the filler/stain mix followed by the dewaxed
> shellac, sanding, and restaining.
That is essentially the same as #1, just a coat of shellac on top of the
varnish from the filler. I suggested the shellac originally because I
didn't know what was in your filler.
> I'll report back my results in case anyone is interested who has
> followed this thread.
I'll look forward to hearing.
> Thanks for clarifying your posts for me.
NP
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as
>> usual. I lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my
>> grain filler to get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have a
>> match I am going to try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to fill
>> the holes in the oak. I'm going to try Zinsser so I don't have to
>> mix shellac from scratch.
>
> Well, you could do that but it is going to take a *lot* of shellac...many,
> many, many coats. Did I mention it will take many coats?
>
> I suggested applying a light clear coat to seal the filler which -
> presumably - is already filling the oak. Judiciously sanding that off
> should then allow you to add stain to the raw wood without it being
> absorbed by the filler and affecting its color.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>
Oh thanks. I misunderstood your earlier post. Just to make sure I have it
this time, you are saying to apply my grain filler with no colorization
(pigment staint) in it. When dry I should put on a light clear coat of
shellac. Then sand that coat enough to leave grain filler in the holes only
and then stain it with my pigmented stain. Is that right? OK to use Zinsser
clear so I don't have to mix any shellac myself?
Thanks.
Dick
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> dadiOH wrote:
>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>>>> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as
>>>>> usual. I lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my
>>>>> grain filler to get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have
>>>>> a match I am going to try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to
>>>>> fill the holes in the oak. I'm going to try Zinsser so I don't
>>>>> have to mix shellac from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> Well, you could do that but it is going to take a *lot* of
>>>> shellac...many, many, many coats. Did I mention it will take many
>>>> coats? I suggested applying a light clear coat to seal the filler
>>>> which - presumably - is already filling the oak. Judiciously
>>>> sanding that off should then allow you to add stain to the raw wood
>>>> without it
>>>> being absorbed by the filler and affecting its color.
>>
>>> Oh thanks. I misunderstood your earlier post. Just to make sure I
>>> have it this time, you are saying to apply my grain filler with no
>>> colorization (pigment staint) in it. When dry I should put on a light
>>> clear coat of shellac. Then sand that coat enough to leave grain
>>> filler in the holes only and then stain it with my pigmented stain.
>>> Is that right?
>>
>> No. You had said...
>>
>> "I bought some Benwood
>> filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain
>> as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test
>> pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the stained
>> grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto sanded
>> oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>> stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match.
>> Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled."
>>
>> ...and asked for suggestions to remedy your problem. I posted a way
>> to add *more* stain to the too light wood without affecting - or
>> minimally affecting - the color already in the pores.
>>
>> What you are proposing now is a different thing; however, what I said
>> may work OK as the shellac would act as a conditioner in the pores. Best
>> I can suggest is to try it and see.
>>
>>> OK to use Zinsser clear so I don't have to mix any shellac myself?
>>
>> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
>> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and
>> rubbing the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use
>> shellac alone; basically, you would be making your own uncolored
>> filler using pumice rather than silex.
>
> I just looked up the specs for the wood filler you used. It uses alkyd
> resin - as in varnish - as a binder. In reference to your original post,
> you should be able to add more stain to your too light areas after the
> filler/stain is completely dry (24 hours) without materially affecting the
> color in the filled pores as the pores are sealed by the varnish. That
> assumes the pores are totally filled so that additional stain doesn't
> catch in them. IOW, the shellac solution shouldn't be necessary.
>
> Starting with raw wood, you could also stain it as dark as you like, let
> it dry then mix a lighter color stain into a filler that will absorb the
> stain; filling with that should both fill and lighten the too dark color
> from the original stain. AFAIK, neither pumice nor silex - both are
> silica - would absorb stain...whiting (powdered limestone) would...very
> fine wood dust would...wheat flour would but I've never heard of it being
> used.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
OK, I think I've got it. Sorry to be so dense. I will try two experiments
and choose the best result.
1. Adding more stain after filling the wood with the filler/stain mix.
2. Filling the wood with the filler/stain mix followed by the dewaxed
shellac, sanding, and restaining.
I get your point about not needing to try experiment 2 given the alkyd resin
in the grain filler but since I am learning a lot with this thread, I will
take the time to do it anyway. I'll report back my results in case anyone is
interested who has followed
this thread. In principal, the results should look quite similar.
Thanks for clarifying your posts for me.
Dick
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> dadiOH wrote:
>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>>>> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as
>>>>> usual. I lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my
>>>>> grain filler to get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have
>>>>> a match I am going to try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to
>>>>> fill the holes in the oak. I'm going to try Zinsser so I don't
>>>>> have to mix shellac from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> Well, you could do that but it is going to take a *lot* of
>>>> shellac...many, many, many coats. Did I mention it will take many
>>>> coats? I suggested applying a light clear coat to seal the filler
>>>> which - presumably - is already filling the oak. Judiciously
>>>> sanding that off should then allow you to add stain to the raw wood
>>>> without it
>>>> being absorbed by the filler and affecting its color.
>>
>>> Oh thanks. I misunderstood your earlier post. Just to make sure I
>>> have it this time, you are saying to apply my grain filler with no
>>> colorization (pigment staint) in it. When dry I should put on a light
>>> clear coat of shellac. Then sand that coat enough to leave grain
>>> filler in the holes only and then stain it with my pigmented stain.
>>> Is that right?
>>
>> No. You had said...
>>
>> "I bought some Benwood
>> filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain
>> as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test
>> pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the stained
>> grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto sanded
>> oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>> stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match.
>> Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled."
>>
>> ...and asked for suggestions to remedy your problem. I posted a way
>> to add *more* stain to the too light wood without affecting - or
>> minimally affecting - the color already in the pores.
>>
>> What you are proposing now is a different thing; however, what I said
>> may work OK as the shellac would act as a conditioner in the pores. Best
>> I can suggest is to try it and see.
>>
>>> OK to use Zinsser clear so I don't have to mix any shellac myself?
>>
>> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
>> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and
>> rubbing the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use
>> shellac alone; basically, you would be making your own uncolored
>> filler using pumice rather than silex.
>
> I just looked up the specs for the wood filler you used. It uses alkyd
> resin - as in varnish - as a binder. In reference to your original post,
> you should be able to add more stain to your too light areas after the
> filler/stain is completely dry (24 hours) without materially affecting the
> color in the filled pores as the pores are sealed by the varnish. That
> assumes the pores are totally filled so that additional stain doesn't
> catch in them. IOW, the shellac solution shouldn't be necessary.
>
> Starting with raw wood, you could also stain it as dark as you like, let
> it dry then mix a lighter color stain into a filler that will absorb the
> stain; filling with that should both fill and lighten the too dark color
> from the original stain. AFAIK, neither pumice nor silex - both are
> silica - would absorb stain...whiting (powdered limestone) would...very
> fine wood dust would...wheat flour would but I've never heard of it being
> used.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
OK, I think I've got it. Sorry to be so dense. I will try two experiments
and choose the best result.
1. Adding more stain after filling the wood with the filler/stain mix.
2. Filling the wood with the filler/stain mix followed by the dewaxed
shellac, sanding, and restaining.
I'll report back my results in case anyone is interested who has followed
this thread.
Thanks for clarifying your posts for me.
Dick
Steve Turner wrote:
> dadiOH wrote:
>> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
>> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and
>> rubbing the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use
>> shellac alone; basically, you would be making your own uncolored
>> filler using pumice rather than silex.
>
> Pumice and shellac *does* make a great filler - until you try to sand
> it smooth. Since pumice too is an abrasive, the stuff is murder on
> sandpaper.
Shouldn't be too bad, pumice is just non-crystalline quartz - glass,
essentially - and aluminum oxide is way harder.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
dadiOH wrote:
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>>> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as
>>>> usual. I lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my
>>>> grain filler to get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have
>>>> a match I am going to try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to
>>>> fill the holes in the oak. I'm going to try Zinsser so I don't
>>>> have to mix shellac from scratch.
>>>
>>> Well, you could do that but it is going to take a *lot* of
>>> shellac...many, many, many coats. Did I mention it will take many
>>> coats? I suggested applying a light clear coat to seal the filler
>>> which - presumably - is already filling the oak. Judiciously
>>> sanding that off should then allow you to add stain to the raw wood
>>> without it
>>> being absorbed by the filler and affecting its color.
>
>> Oh thanks. I misunderstood your earlier post. Just to make sure I
>> have it this time, you are saying to apply my grain filler with no
>> colorization (pigment staint) in it. When dry I should put on a light
>> clear coat of shellac. Then sand that coat enough to leave grain
>> filler in the holes only and then stain it with my pigmented stain.
>> Is that right?
>
> No. You had said...
>
> "I bought some Benwood
> filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain
> as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test
> pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the stained
> grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto sanded
> oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
> stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match.
> Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled."
>
> ...and asked for suggestions to remedy your problem. I posted a way
> to add *more* stain to the too light wood without affecting - or
> minimally affecting - the color already in the pores.
>
> What you are proposing now is a different thing; however, what I said
> may work OK as the shellac would act as a conditioner in the pores. Best I
> can suggest is to try it and see.
>
>> OK to use Zinsser clear so I don't have to mix any shellac myself?
>
> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and
> rubbing the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use
> shellac alone; basically, you would be making your own uncolored
> filler using pumice rather than silex.
I just looked up the specs for the wood filler you used. It uses alkyd
resin - as in varnish - as a binder. In reference to your original post,
you should be able to add more stain to your too light areas after the
filler/stain is completely dry (24 hours) without materially affecting the
color in the filled pores as the pores are sealed by the varnish. That
assumes the pores are totally filled so that additional stain doesn't catch
in them. IOW, the shellac solution shouldn't be necessary.
Starting with raw wood, you could also stain it as dark as you like, let it
dry then mix a lighter color stain into a filler that will absorb the stain;
filling with that should both fill and lighten the too dark color from the
original stain. AFAIK, neither pumice nor silex - both are silica - would
absorb stain...whiting (powdered limestone) would...very fine wood dust
would...wheat flour would but I've never heard of it being used.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e1eabb74-2019-4963-a815-f3db4b1a2e5b@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 24, 11:49 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
> > TIA.
>
> > Dick Snyder
>
> You can try (without any filler needed) a dye stain. It should color
> the wood more evenly (less dramatic grain) than a pigment stain.
>
> Charles
I reread your original post and it wasn't clear to me if you were
trying to alter something you've already stained or trying a new way
of coloring wood from the beginning - my suggestion was for the latter.
I am coloring wood from the beginning but I am trying to match the newly
finished wood to some existing oak cabinets that look like they were stained
with Golden Oak pigment stain. I started by mixing Golden Oak pigment stain
with grain filler but it is too light for a match. I am trying to find a way
(or ways) to come closer to the cabinets.
Dick
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that
>> it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>> putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>> the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>> contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain
>> with a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat
>> here. I bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors
>> book) and mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max
>> dilution. I did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good
>> news is that the stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it
>> directly onto sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me
>> anyway), is that the stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope
>> to match. Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled.
>> The only other option I can come up with is to mix a darker stain into
>> the wood filler trying to come closer to the cabinets I am trying to
>> match.
>>
>> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
>
> Hi Dick,
>
> Try doing a Google search on "glazes and toners". They are both extremely
> useful in matching colors.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
Hi Jack,
I did google and I also found a section on glazes in my Flexner book. That
sounds like a better bet than trying to mix up some combinations of pigment
stains hoping to get a good mix with the grain filler. Do you happen to know
stores that carry them? I have a Rocklers near me and a Woodcraft sort of
kind of near me.
Thanks.
Dick
Dick Snyder wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as
>>> usual. I lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my
>>> grain filler to get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have
>>> a match I am going to try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to fill
>>> the holes in the oak. I'm going to try Zinsser so I don't have to
>>> mix shellac from scratch.
>>
>> Well, you could do that but it is going to take a *lot* of
>> shellac...many, many, many coats. Did I mention it will take many
>> coats? I suggested applying a light clear coat to seal the filler which -
>> presumably - is already filling the oak. Judiciously sanding that
>> off should then allow you to add stain to the raw wood without it
>> being absorbed by the filler and affecting its color.
> Oh thanks. I misunderstood your earlier post. Just to make sure I
> have it this time, you are saying to apply my grain filler with no
> colorization (pigment staint) in it. When dry I should put on a light
> clear coat of shellac. Then sand that coat enough to leave grain
> filler in the holes only and then stain it with my pigmented stain.
> Is that right?
No. You had said...
"I bought some Benwood
filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain as
mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test pieces -
solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the stained grain isn't
nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto sanded oak with no wood
filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the stained wood is more
blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying more stain won't help
because the pores are filled."
...and asked for suggestions to remedy your problem. I posted a way to add
*more* stain to the too light wood without affecting - or minimally
affecting - the color already in the pores.
What you are proposing now is a different thing; however, what I said may
work OK as the shellac would act as a conditioner in the pores. Best I can
suggest is to try it and see.
> OK to use Zinsser clear so I don't have to mix any shellac myself?
It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and rubbing
the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use shellac alone;
basically, you would be making your own uncolored filler using pumice rather
than silex.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with
>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I
>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I
>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>
> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
>
I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as usual. I
lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my grain filler to
get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have a match I am going to
try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to fill the holes in the oak. I'm
going to try Zinsser so I don't have to mix shellac from scratch.
Thanks again.
Dick
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with
>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I
>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I
>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>
> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
>
Post Script: I have finished staining my vanity. After running many
experiments I chose to put untinted Benwood grain filler (made by Ben Moore)
on the vanity I was making for NH. I should mention that it is a warm brown
in color which was in the direction I was heading with the final Golden Oak
stain. In retrospect I would have put in 25% stain (the max allowed with
Benwood) to just thin it out. It is thick and very difficult to rub off with
the recommended burlap in small spaces. The stain would have thinned it more
making it easier to apply and rub off. After the grain filler had dried for
20 hours or so I spent another 3-4 hours with more burlap rubbing off some
built up grain filler that I missed in my initial rubbing. This wasn't on
the end of the vanity which was a somewhat large flat surface but on the
face frame in the front and especially on the raised panel cathedral style
doors. The project looks great now but my supply of elbow grease is running
low!
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so
> that it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the
> mistake of putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know
> what happened - the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes
> anyway). A past contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested
> mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting
> which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood filler (it was one I
> saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the
> can which was the max dilution. I did some test pieces - solid oak
> and oak plywood. The good news is that the stained grain isn't nearly
> as dark as when I applied it directly onto sanded oak with no wood
> filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the stained wood is
> more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying more stain
> won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I can
> come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
> come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
1. Apply a thin top coat (shellac, lacquer, varnish, whatever)
2. Sand it off
3. Stain the now raw wood as you will.
Filler fills up the holes in the wood but doesn't necesarily seal them;
ergo, the top coat. Sanding off the top coat - gently - should leave the
filler in the low spots.
Toners/glazes will darken everything including the filled areas.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Dick Snyder wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so
>>>> that it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the
>>>> mistake of putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you
>>>> know what happened - the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my
>>>> tastes anyway). A past contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay,
>>>> suggested mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had a very
>>>> detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood
>>>> filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25%
>>>> stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did
>>>> some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is
>>>> that the stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it
>>>> directly onto sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me
>>>> anyway), is that the stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets
>>>> I hope to match. Applying more stain won't help because the pores
>>>> are filled. The only other option I can come up with is to mix a
>>>> darker stain into the wood filler trying to come closer to the
>>>> cabinets I am trying to match. Do any of you have some ideas on
>>>> what I might do? TIA.
>>>>
>>>> Dick Snyder
>>>>
>>> Post Script: I have finished staining my vanity. After running many
>>> experiments I chose to put untinted Benwood grain filler (made by
>>> Ben Moore) on the vanity I was making for NH. I should mention that
>>> it is a warm brown in color which was in the direction I was
>>> heading with the final Golden Oak stain. In retrospect I would have
>>> put in 25% stain (the max allowed with Benwood) to just thin it
>>> out. It is thick and very difficult to rub off with the recommended
>>> burlap in small spaces.
>>
>> One can thin it. With naptha.
>>
>> --
>>
>> dadiOH
>> ____________________________
>>
>> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
>> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
>> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
>> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>>
>>
>>
> Naptha dries very quickly. Is that why you selected that versus some
> other kind of thinner?
That and the fact that the instructions generally say to use it to thin to a
"heavy cream" consistency. Naptha assumes an oil base filler.
Procedure...
1. Thin with whatever to desired consistency
2. Slosh on a smallish area ("smallish" varies by person, gotta define it
yourself)
3. Move around (L<>R, up<>down, both diagonals) with rag, brush, etc....like
grouting tile.
4. When it starts to set up (lose gloss), remove excess with burlap, old
towel, plastic scraper, etc. OK to add a little solvent to the burlap/towel
but very little...goal is to keep filler in grain, remove elsewhere.
5. After drying, repeat above as necessary to totally fill grain
6. After it is dry, sand entire surface lightly to remove any residual
filler from areas other than pores.
7. Clean, apply your stain <ugh> if any then top coat of choice (after any
stain <ugh again> is dry).
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
This might be a tad too strange for some folk, but for small
projects that needed just a touch of color, I did a lot with magic
markers and acetone.
For instance, I built a box with a sliding lid to make a
presentation case for a 1-1/2 ounce bottle of Tanguray as a gift.
The whole thing would fit in your hand and was made of oak. What
I wanted was a reddish color to go with the green bottle inside.
The quick solution was do put about 3 tbsp of acetone into a dish
and break apart a red magic marker. I placed the dye saturated
core into the acetone, which turned into the nicest and most
controllable red dye you could imagine. 4-5 coats of the dye got
me the color I wanted and didn't raise any grain, either. I then
finished off with a few coats of tung oil and called it done.
FWIW, by using different magic markers, you can control the color
by using different ones, such as red and black or brown.
--
Nonny
Live a good and honorable life.
Then when you get older and
think back, you'll enjoy it
a second time.
On Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:46:55 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Dick Snyder wrote:
>> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so
>>> that it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the
>>> mistake of putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know
>>> what happened - the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes
>>> anyway). A past contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay,
>>> suggested mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had a very detailed
>>> posting which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood filler (it
>>> was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain as
>>> mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test
>>> pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>>> stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly
>>> onto sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway),
>>> is that the stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to
>>> match. Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled.
>>> The only other option I can come up with is to mix a darker stain
>>> into the wood filler trying to come closer to the cabinets I am
>>> trying to match. Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>>
>>> TIA.
>>>
>>> Dick Snyder
>>>
>> Post Script: I have finished staining my vanity. After running many
>> experiments I chose to put untinted Benwood grain filler (made by Ben
>> Moore) on the vanity I was making for NH. I should mention that it is
>> a warm brown in color which was in the direction I was heading with
>> the final Golden Oak stain. In retrospect I would have put in 25%
>> stain (the max allowed with Benwood) to just thin it out. It is thick
>> and very difficult to rub off with the recommended burlap in small
>> spaces.
>
>One can thin it. With naptha.
Just be damned careful. Naptha ~= gasoline.
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 19:58:08 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
>>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with
>>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I
>>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I
>>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>>
>> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
>
>Filling the pores to decrease absorbtion works to keep the tone down as you
>indicated. Applying more stain should not be a problem as long as you let
>it set longer before wiping the excess. I have double coated stain to many
>closed pore woods to get a darker result.
I'm still wondering why nobody has asked Dick why he wants to use an
open-pored, grainy wood if he wants a perfectly smooth surface. Nobody
has suggested fuming, either. <sigh>
---
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight
very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
--John Wayne (1907 - 1979)
On Oct 24, 11:49=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> > Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
> > TIA.
>
> > Dick Snyder
>
> You can try (without any filler needed) a dye stain. =A0It should color
> the wood more evenly (less dramatic grain) than a pigment stain.
>
> Charles
I reread your original post and it wasn't clear to me if you were
trying to alter something you've already stained or trying a new way
of coloring wood from the beginning - my suggestion was for the latter.
dadiOH wrote:
> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and rubbing
> the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use shellac alone;
> basically, you would be making your own uncolored filler using pumice rather
> than silex.
Pumice and shellac *does* make a great filler - until you try to sand it smooth. Since
pumice too is an abrasive, the stuff is murder on sandpaper.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
dadiOH wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> dadiOH wrote:
>>> It's OK by me but as someone else said be sure it is dewaxed. And as
>>> someone else also said, mixing in some very fine (FFFF) pumice and
>>> rubbing the slurry in will fill much faster than trying to use
>>> shellac alone; basically, you would be making your own uncolored
>>> filler using pumice rather than silex.
>> Pumice and shellac *does* make a great filler - until you try to sand
>> it smooth. Since pumice too is an abrasive, the stuff is murder on
>> sandpaper.
>
> Shouldn't be too bad, pumice is just non-crystalline quartz - glass,
> essentially - and aluminum oxide is way harder.
You'd think; but believe me, I've been there, done that. Tried garnet, aluminum oxide,
silicon carbide (wet-or-dry), all that stuff. It all dulls *way* faster than it would if
the pumice were not present. It's hell on a cabinet scraper too. :-)
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
krw wrote:
...
> It's what gasoline is made from. AKA "Coleman fuel".
No, it and gasoline are refined petroleum products, but "~=" comes in
fairly distant in this case.
It is primarily aliphatic light hydrocarbons w/ C number betweeen C5 to
C9 and is treated to remove aromatics and has almost no benzene (<0.01%).
Gasoline, otoh, contains 20-30% ethyl benzene and significant fractions
up to C12.
IOW, "white gas" is far more refined and much lighter than gasoline.
They both burn, it's true... :)
--
Dick Snyder wrote:
...
> There are many variants of Naptha I have learned. In my local paint store
> they sell VM&P Naptha (Varnish Makers and Painters)
Yes, and none should be confused w/ automotive gasoline as is much
lighter fraction (essentially more refined).
Gasoline isn't particularly well suited for finish work at all--it can
be used in a desperate pinch or for cleanup but even there it doesn't
evaporate as cleanly so still should be rinsed to avoid leaving "gummy"
residues...
--
Dick Snyder wrote:
> I have completed my experiments. As dadiOH predicted, there was no
> difference between the sample I did with a grain filler mixed with
> stain followed by light sanding/more stain and the sample where I
> applied shellac over the grain filler/stain mix followed by sanding
> of the shellac/more stain.
> Thanks to all of you I think I have a
> good workable system for finishing oak
Huzzah!!
> though I did learn one other
> useful thing with these experiments and all of your help. When I did
> a sample where the oak veneer on the plywood had the strong V pattern
> you get from plain sawn boards (versus the veneer from quarter sawn
> boads), the open grain in the V was too dark. If I get this kind of
> oak plywood in the future, I will mix less stain in with my grain
> filler to minimize the dark color in those large pores. Then when I
> sand and apply more stain, I will get a more even coloring of the
> wood. .
Or, you could put on a coat of shellac first of all, sand it off leaving it
in the pores so they won't absorb as much then add your filler and "normal"
stain. No, I don't own a shellac factory :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
Dick Snyder wrote:
> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so
>> that it will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the
>> mistake of putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know
>> what happened - the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes
>> anyway). A past contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay,
>> suggested mixing in stain with a wood filler. He had a very detailed
>> posting which I won't repeat here. I bought some Benwood filler (it
>> was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and mixed in 25% stain as
>> mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I did some test
>> pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>> stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly
>> onto sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway),
>> is that the stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to
>> match. Applying more stain won't help because the pores are filled.
>> The only other option I can come up with is to mix a darker stain
>> into the wood filler trying to come closer to the cabinets I am
>> trying to match. Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
>>
> Post Script: I have finished staining my vanity. After running many
> experiments I chose to put untinted Benwood grain filler (made by Ben
> Moore) on the vanity I was making for NH. I should mention that it is
> a warm brown in color which was in the direction I was heading with
> the final Golden Oak stain. In retrospect I would have put in 25%
> stain (the max allowed with Benwood) to just thin it out. It is thick
> and very difficult to rub off with the recommended burlap in small
> spaces.
One can thin it. With naptha.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:k0%[email protected]...
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>> I have completed my experiments. As dadiOH predicted, there was no
>> difference between the sample I did with a grain filler mixed with
>> stain followed by light sanding/more stain and the sample where I
>> applied shellac over the grain filler/stain mix followed by sanding
>> of the shellac/more stain.
>
>> Thanks to all of you I think I have a
>> good workable system for finishing oak
>
> Huzzah!!
>
>> though I did learn one other
>> useful thing with these experiments and all of your help. When I did
>> a sample where the oak veneer on the plywood had the strong V pattern
>> you get from plain sawn boards (versus the veneer from quarter sawn
>> boads), the open grain in the V was too dark. If I get this kind of
>> oak plywood in the future, I will mix less stain in with my grain
>> filler to minimize the dark color in those large pores. Then when I
>> sand and apply more stain, I will get a more even coloring of the
>> wood. .
>
> Or, you could put on a coat of shellac first of all, sand it off leaving
> it in the pores so they won't absorb as much then add your filler and
> "normal" stain. No, I don't own a shellac factory :)
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>
Another good idea. Thanks. I have written on this down for future projects.
I think I like the shellac idea better than the pumice though I haven't
worked with pumice so that may be fine too.
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with
>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I
>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I
>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>
> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
>
I had one other idea while following up on a post by Jack Novak. There is a
product called Famowood that makes on a wood filler. It is actually made
from wood flower so filling oak with Famowood Oak Filler would actually be
sealing the pores with oak. That can then be stained. That might be another
way for me to go. Has anyone had experience using this product followed up
by staining?
Dick
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with
>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I
>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I
>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>
> Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
Filling the pores to decrease absorbtion works to keep the tone down as you
indicated. Applying more stain should not be a problem as long as you let
it set longer before wiping the excess. I have double coated stain to many
closed pore woods to get a darker result.
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>> OK, I think I've got it. Sorry to be so dense. I will try two
>> experiments and choose the best result.
>>
>> 1. Adding more stain after filling the wood with the filler/stain mix.
>
> Keep in mind that the binder in your filler is varnish. That varnish is
> also going to seal the whole piece of wood so - after the filler is
> *totally* dry - you may have to sand lightly before the rest of the wood
> will accept an appreciable amount of stain.
>
>> 2. Filling the wood with the filler/stain mix followed by the dewaxed
>> shellac, sanding, and restaining.
>
> That is essentially the same as #1, just a coat of shellac on top of the
> varnish from the filler. I suggested the shellac originally because I
> didn't know what was in your filler.
>
>> I'll report back my results in case anyone is interested who has
>> followed this thread.
>
> I'll look forward to hearing.
>
>> Thanks for clarifying your posts for me.
>
> NP
>
>
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>
I have completed my experiments. As dadiOH predicted, there was no
difference between the sample I did with a grain filler mixed with stain
followed by light sanding/more stain and the sample where I applied shellac
over the grain filler/stain mix followed by sanding of the shellac/more
stain. Thanks to all of you I think I have a good workable system for
finishing oak though I did learn one other useful thing with these
experiments and all of your help. When I did a sample where the oak veneer
on the plywood had the strong V pattern you get from plain sawn boards
(versus the veneer from quarter sawn boads), the open grain in the V was too
dark. If I get this kind of oak plywood in the future, I will mix less stain
in with my grain filler to minimize the dark color in those large pores.
Then when I sand and apply more stain, I will get a more even coloring of
the wood. .
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:54:44 -0500, the infamous "Dick Snyder"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Jeeze, doesn't anyone like open pored wood any more? Why is everyone
>> trying to make oak into a highly-polished, smooth piano finish?
>>
>> --Puzzled in Oregon
>In my original post I mentioned that I needed to match the vanity I have
>built to an existing wood cabinet in the bathroom. That cabinet has the
>grain filled and is stained with Golden Oak stain. It was important to me to
>have the two pieces look similar.
Sorry, I missed that. You were actually matching previously abused
oak. ;)
OK, now, the question stands for everyone else.
---
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight
very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
--John Wayne (1907 - 1979)
On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:05:58 -0400, the infamous Nova
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Dick Snyder wrote:
>> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that it
>>>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>>>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what happened -
>>>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>>>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain with
>>>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here. I
>>>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>>>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>>>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that the
>>>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>>>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that the
>>>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>>>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other option I
>>>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>>>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>>>
>>>Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>>
>>>TIA.
>>>
>>>Dick Snyder
>>>
>>
>>
>> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as usual. I
>> lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my grain filler to
>> get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have a match I am going to
>> try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to fill the holes in the oak. I'm
>> going to try Zinsser so I don't have to mix shellac from scratch.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>>
>
>I'd suggest Zinsser's Seal Coat as it's dewaxed. Hand applying the
>shellac with a clean rag and rubbing in a little "FFFF" pumice will
>greatly speed up the pore filling.
Jeeze, doesn't anyone like open pored wood any more? Why is everyone
trying to make oak into a highly-polished, smooth piano finish?
--Puzzled in Oregon
---
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight
very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
--John Wayne (1907 - 1979)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:31:19 -0400, "Dick Snyder"
>>Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=63843&cat=51&ap=2
Thanks but I don't think a sanding sealer is what I am looking for. The
sanding sealer is more used for leveling a wood surface prior to putting on
the finish I believe. I used a grain filler mixed with stain. It filled the
grain as would a sanding sealer but I wanted the color mixed in as I would
be unable to stain it once the pores of the grain were filled in. My results
just came out too blonde and I wanted to see if anyone had other techniques
they could share. By blonde I mean that it was a light golden brown whereas
Golden Oak stain is darker if applied directly on oak.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:05:58 -0400, the infamous Nova
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>I am replacing a bathroom vanity with a new one made of red oak so that
>>>>it
>>>>will match some existing cabinets. In the past I made the mistake of
>>>>putting golden oak stain right on sanded oak and you know what
>>>>happened -
>>>>the grain jumped out WAY too much (for my tastes anyway). A past
>>>>contributor to this newsgroup, John Paquay, suggested mixing in stain
>>>>with
>>>>a wood filler. He had a very detailed posting which I won't repeat here.
>>>>I
>>>>bought some Benwood filler (it was one I saw in Bob Flexnors book) and
>>>>mixed in 25% stain as mentioned on the can which was the max dilution. I
>>>>did some test pieces - solid oak and oak plywood. The good news is that
>>>>the
>>>>stained grain isn't nearly as dark as when I applied it directly onto
>>>>sanded oak with no wood filler. The bad news (for me anyway), is that
>>>>the
>>>>stained wood is more blonde than the cabinets I hope to match. Applying
>>>>more stain won't help because the pores are filled. The only other
>>>>option I
>>>>can come up with is to mix a darker stain into the wood filler trying to
>>>>come closer to the cabinets I am trying to match.
>>>>
>>>>Do any of you have some ideas on what I might do?
>>>>
>>>>TIA.
>>>>
>>>>Dick Snyder
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I want to thank everyone in the group for being helpful to me as usual.
>>> I
>>> lucked out finding a blend of two stains mixed in with my grain filler
>>> to
>>> get a good match to my cabinets. Even though I have a match I am going
>>> to
>>> try the idea from dadiOH using shellac to fill the holes in the oak.
>>> I'm
>>> going to try Zinsser so I don't have to mix shellac from scratch.
>>>
>>> Thanks again.
>>>
>>> Dick
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I'd suggest Zinsser's Seal Coat as it's dewaxed. Hand applying the
>>shellac with a clean rag and rubbing in a little "FFFF" pumice will
>>greatly speed up the pore filling.
>
> Jeeze, doesn't anyone like open pored wood any more? Why is everyone
> trying to make oak into a highly-polished, smooth piano finish?
>
> --Puzzled in Oregon
In my original post I mentioned that I needed to match the vanity I have
built to an existing wood cabinet in the bathroom. That cabinet has the
grain filled and is stained with Golden Oak stain. It was important to me to
have the two pieces look similar.