Japanese Saws

Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:07:24 -0500, Conan the Librarian
> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>
> [snipppety]
>
> > I used to have all kinds of little jigs to help me saw straight, but
> >I finally just figured I needed to learn how to do it on my own. Now I
> >just start the saw across the corner and watch until I cut all the way
> >across the far edge. Once that's done, it's fairly easy to let the
> >starting cut keep you going straight and you can just concentrate on the
> >line on top of the piece. Another thing I do is to cut just outside the
> >line (like maybe 1/32") and then plane to the line. As long as you have
> >a visible line (or scribe mark) to plane to, it's easy to get a
> >close-to-perfect edge.
>
> Bueno. With the pull saw, do you start the cut on the far
> corner and work toward you, the opposite of Western saws?
> I'm thinking that I probably need to avoid the "starting cut
> backstroke" I use with Western saws, too.

I don't know if you need to avoid it, it's just that it won't have
the same effect. :-) Now that you've got me thinking about it, I do
make a very slight push stroke first with my dozuki. But it goes
immediately into a pullstroke. It basically just scores the corner
before my pullstroke begins.

And yes, you start the cut on the far corner and work backwards.

> > I haven't noticed mine dulling particularly quickly, but they are
> >prone to breaking a tooth if you force the action or get careless. Some
> >can be re-sharpened (they make feather-edge files specifically for
> >this), but there's no way I'm up to that task. :-) Usually you just
> >replace the blade.
>
> Yeah, you simply can't force a 0.021" blade much, can you?

Especially a blade with no re-enforced back on it.

> > FWIW, I've had my ryoba/dozuki for almost 7 years now, and it's lost
> >two teeth on the dozuki side (from carelessness on my part). It's still
>
> "Ryoba/dozuki" and "dozuki side"?

OK, maybe I used the terms incorrectly. I was meaning to
distinguish between the rip side of a ryoba and the crosscut side. My
bad.

> >sharp enough that I use it for ripping thin pieces and general
> >crosscutting. I figured it had to be getting dull, so I bought another
> >one (this time from Highland Hardware), but I still prefer using the old
> >one. The new one seems too aggressive and doesn't leave as clean a cut.
>
> Maybe it will once you dull it a bit with use, eh?

That's exactly what I was thinking after I wrote that. I guess I
need to use it more just to see. It does appear to have a bit of burr
on the sides of the teeth, so I could probably knock that off with
use.

> Yeah, I think I'll get on the phone in an hour or so and
> order that saw. I'm in a definitively Japanese mood.

Do you really think so?


Chuck Vance
Just say (tmPL) The Cramps?

I've got a couple of the Lee Valley ones. They're great. Definitely up
there in the bang-for-buck category.

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:05:52 -0500, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

> The rip blades are definitely finer near the handle. I can't say I
>notice any difference with the crosscut blades.
>
> And the teeth aren't necessarily fragile as much as they are a bit
>brittle.

Isn't brittleness also fragility? They're definitely more
fragile than Western teeth.


> I was thinking we were on the same wavelength there.
>
> Though I'm not sure that's a compliment to either of us. :-}

Embrace your wilder and weirder self, sir. (Throws people off.)


I just got off the phone with TJW and expect the saur in a few
days. If I like it, I may grab an azibiki next, for the smaller,
out-of-the-way cuts and veneer. (Real veneer, not that paper-
thin stuff they sell nowadays.)

The saw in the ad is a Gyokucho Ryoba Noko Giri. Blade length is
9-1/2", overall length 23", 14-TPI crosscut side, 7tpi rip. The
saw has a notch cut in the secured end so it will fit in 3
different positions; slight angles up or down. Cool.

I think that working with this saw will help me build patience,
my weakest point.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications

I took a look at the link and then the maker's product page and the model
number has changed. No longer 265RBM but now is BS250D. The amazon
page says the thickness of the blade is 0.035" and no mention on Vaughan's
page. But that 0.035" is the same as 0.889mm and I "bet" the current Stanley
dovetail saws are thinner. I took a look at them in a true value store.
(Serious metric converter, free: http://vaibhavweb.tripod.com/ )

Alex

Thanks Chuck, I needed to know all of that! Makes the most sense to
all of my curiosities. Much appreciated.

Alex

Jay Pique wrote:


> I read in the July issue of American Woodworker that Lee Valley's
> dozuki at $22 was a best buy.
>
> One from the Japan Woodworker and another from Woodcraft Supply got
> "Editor's Choice" as did a $138 saw from Misugi Designs.
>
> No other saws were mentioned in this article, however. Anyone out
> there have any secret sources of high quality, fairly priced japanese
> saws? From what I've heard they walk all over western style
> push-cuts.

I dunno about "secret sources", but some years ago I bought a
Korean-made duzuki that was more than adequate (I think I got it from
Japan Woodworkers). Paid about $20 for it. Also, Woodcraft used to
carry a mini-dozuki "Z" panel-saw that cost maybe $25. I still use mine
from time-to-time for cutting dovetails and fine crosscuts in thin stock
(depth of cut is only a little more than 1").

Then there's the "Samurai" ryoba/dozuki combo I bought at Woodcraft
a while back. Paid ~$40 for it, and I still use it for routine
crosscuting and ripping.

I haven't tried the LV saw, but is that the one with a plastic
handle? If so, that would be my only concern. The saws I mentioned
above have wooden and wicker-wrapped handles respectively. I much
prefer them to plastic.

As for pull vs. push saws -- I use both, and in general think that
Japanese saws are a better value. They have thin kerfs and really shine
for fine work. However, there are plenty of top-flight push saws out
there. Unfortunately, they usually carry pretty high price-tags (the
L-N, for example).

However, be warned that some folks just simply cannot adjust to the
pull motion for sawing. Personally, I like it for doing fine work, but
others don't care for it. (I suspect part of the problem may be that
these folks are accustomed to overpowering their western saws, and the
pull saws take a light touch.) For me, the only negatives are: You
always have dust from the cut covering the line you are trying to saw
to, and due to the handle-style, you have to be careful or the saws tend
to wander off vertical. Also, beware that Japanese saws in general seem
to be better suited for softwoods or soft hardwoods.


Chuck Vance

Jay Pique wrote:

> I read in the July issue of American Woodworker that Lee Valley's
> dozuki at $22 was a best buy.
>
> One from the Japan Woodworker and another from Woodcraft Supply got
> "Editor's Choice" as did a $138 saw from Misugi Designs.
>
> No other saws were mentioned in this article, however. Anyone out
> there have any secret sources of high quality, fairly priced japanese
> saws? From what I've heard they walk all over western style
> push-cuts.
>
> JP
>

Check out http://www.tashirohardware.com/

--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD

Larry Jaques wrote:

> Has anyone tried the razor saw from The Japan Woodworker?
> It appears to be their $37.75 ryoba but is $25.95 postpaid.
> I love how the Veritas flush-cutter works.

I've got a Crown flush-cut that I hardly ever use. I've found it's
just as easy to sneak up on things by using a fine dozuki to get close
and a chisel to opare down to the surface.

As for the razor saw -- I wonder if that's like the one I got from
Garrett Wade a while back. I paid about $40 for it, and it's got very
fine teeth and a tiny kerf. Unfortunately, it cuts so slow that I have
problems with it drifting off vertical (it's my fault, but the slower a
saw cuts the more chance for you to let it wander).

> [dust from the cut covering the line you are trying to saw to]
>
> A piece of tubing stops that. Put one end in y our mouth and
> one under the hand you're using to position the wood. Aim it
> at the cut and give it a puff when you can't see the cut-to line.

I've just gotten into the habit of exhaling between cuts and blowing
the dust off that way. No big deal, but something to be aware of.

> [saws drifting]
>
> And unlike Western saws, they're nearly impossible to reposition.
> I've been starting cuts with a tubatwo next to the saw to check
> my angles.

I used to have all kinds of little jigs to help me saw straight, but
I finally just figured I needed to learn how to do it on my own. Now I
just start the saw across the corner and watch until I cut all the way
across the far edge. Once that's done, it's fairly easy to let the
starting cut keep you going straight and you can just concentrate on the
line on top of the piece. Another thing I do is to cut just outside the
line (like maybe 1/32") and then plane to the line. As long as you have
a visible line (or scribe mark) to plane to, it's easy to get a
close-to-perfect edge.

>>Also, beware that Japanese saws in general seem
>>to be better suited for softwoods or soft hardwoods.
>
> Do they dull quickly and are not sharpenable?

I haven't noticed mine dulling particularly quickly, but they are
prone to breaking a tooth if you force the action or get careless. Some
can be re-sharpened (they make feather-edge files specifically for
this), but there's no way I'm up to that task. :-) Usually you just
replace the blade.

FWIW, I've had my ryoba/dozuki for almost 7 years now, and it's lost
two teeth on the dozuki side (from carelessness on my part). It's still
sharp enough that I use it for ripping thin pieces and general
crosscutting. I figured it had to be getting dull, so I bought another
one (this time from Highland Hardware), but I still prefer using the old
one. The new one seems too aggressive and doesn't leave as clean a cut.


Chuck Vance

Larry Jaques wrote:

> On 23 Aug 2004 05:02:30 -0700, [email protected] (Conan The Librarian)
> calmly ranted:
>
>> I don't know if you need to avoid it, it's just that it won't have
>>the same effect. :-) Now that you've got me thinking about it, I do
>>make a very slight push stroke first with my dozuki. But it goes
>>immediately into a pullstroke. It basically just scores the corner
>>before my pullstroke begins.
>
> The teeth look considerably more fragile so I thought I'd
> ask. Don't they also taper to finer at the handle end to
> coarser at the far end, for starting purposes, or is that
> just in the $80 models?

The rip blades are definitely finer near the handle. I can't say I
notice any difference with the crosscut blades.

And the teeth aren't necessarily fragile as much as they are a bit
brittle.

>>>order that saw. I'm in a definitively Japanese mood.
>>
>> Do you really think so?
>
> ...but I am not turning Japanese, I am not turning Japanese,
> I really think so. (BTW, I had the same tune pop into my
> head as I wrote the original line. Weird minds think alike.)

I was thinking we were on the same wavelength there.

Though I'm not sure that's a compliment to either of us. :-}


Chuck Vance

Larry Jaques wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:05:52 -0500, Conan the Librarian
> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>
>> And the teeth aren't necessarily fragile as much as they are a bit
>>brittle.
>
> Isn't brittleness also fragility? They're definitely more
> fragile than Western teeth.

I dunno if brittleness and fragility equate when talking about
saw-steel. I'm sure one of the wreck.metallurgists can chime in on that
issue. I assume that being "impulse-hardened" also has some bearing on
things.

And if you think about it, they are quite a bit thinner and narrower
than Western teeth, so that could be another reason they are prone to
breakage.

>> I was thinking we were on the same wavelength there.
>>
>> Though I'm not sure that's a compliment to either of us. :-}
>
> Embrace your wilder and weirder self, sir. (Throws people off.)

BTDT, got the reputation that goes with it. :-)

> I just got off the phone with TJW and expect the saur in a few
> days. If I like it, I may grab an azibiki next, for the smaller,
> out-of-the-way cuts and veneer. (Real veneer, not that paper-
> thin stuff they sell nowadays.)
>
> The saw in the ad is a Gyokucho Ryoba Noko Giri. Blade length is
> 9-1/2", overall length 23", 14-TPI crosscut side, 7tpi rip. The
> saw has a notch cut in the secured end so it will fit in 3
> different positions; slight angles up or down. Cool.
>
> I think that working with this saw will help me build patience,
> my weakest point.

Ay, Japanese pullsaws will definitely do that. They also teach you
to use a lighter touch when sawing and to let the blade work for you.

Looking at the saw on their website, it looks just like the saw I
bought from Highland Hardware a while back to replace my old ryoba.
You'll have to let me know what you think of the aggressiveness of the
cut and the finish left.


Chuck Vance

Larry Jaques wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:03:25 -0500, Conan the Librarian
> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>
> [snippage]
>
>> Ay, Japanese pullsaws will definitely do that. They also teach you
>>to use a lighter touch when sawing and to let the blade work for you.
>
> I learned that both with the Veritas/Japanese flushcut saw
> and with freshly sharpened saws a few years ago. It was a
> very nice lesson, and one I won't ever forget. When I work
> up a real sweat with a saw, it means I'm working way, way
> too hard. A damp brow alerts me to that now and again and
> the pace drops while the work proceeds normally.

I don't really have that luxury down here in Texas, as many days I
can work up a sweat just by walking out into the shop. :-}

But your point is taken.

>> Looking at the saw on their website, it looks just like the saw I
>>bought from Highland Hardware a while back to replace my old ryoba.
>>You'll have to let me know what you think of the aggressiveness of the
>>cut and the finish left.
>
> Will do.

FWIW, I checked on the saw I got from Highland. It's not the same
as yours afterall. IIRC, it's an Ikedame (sp?) ryoba. I gave it a spin
ripping some 1-1/2" thick stock, and it did OK.

BTW, I was sweating when I was done.

Of course it was about 95 degrees and 95% humidity.


Chuck Vance

Larry Jaques wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0500, Conan the Librarian
> <[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>
>> I don't really have that luxury down here in Texas, as many days I
>>can work up a sweat just by walking out into the shop. :-}
>>
>> But your point is taken.
>
> It got up to about 30% during the recent rains but it normally
> sits around 15% hummerditty here. <nomex=ON>

Hmmmm ... and I thought you were living in the rainforest.

>> FWIW, I checked on the saw I got from Highland. It's not the same
>>as yours afterall. IIRC, it's an Ikedame (sp?) ryoba. I gave it a spin
>>ripping some 1-1/2" thick stock, and it did OK.
>
> Uh, you just looked at the saw and still cain't spell it?!?
> Well, I'll be.

Actually, I didn't *just* look at it, I looked at it the day before
I wrote that post. And I don't really do Japanese, so I was trying to
remember it phonetically.

BTW, I did spell it correctly:
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=887

>> BTW, I was sweating when I was done.
>>
>> Of course it was about 95 degrees and 95% humidity.
>
> That'll do 'er.

After the coolest (and wettest) summer I can remember around here,
it looks like we're (finally?) settled in to our August weather pattern.
Today should be about 98 with a heat index of 107 or so. And SWMBO's
company is having their annual boat party today, so I'll get to
experience it "up close and personal". :-}


Chuck Vance

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:25:14 -0400, Donnie Vazquez
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jay Pique wrote:
>
>> I read in the July issue of American Woodworker that Lee Valley's
>> dozuki at $22 was a best buy.
>>
>> One from the Japan Woodworker and another from Woodcraft Supply got
>> "Editor's Choice" as did a $138 saw from Misugi Designs.
>>
>> No other saws were mentioned in this article, however. Anyone out
>> there have any secret sources of high quality, fairly priced japanese
>> saws? From what I've heard they walk all over western style
>> push-cuts.
>>
>> JP
>>
>
>Check out http://www.tashirohardware.com/

That looks interesting. Have you had any experience with his saws?
Anyone?

JP

Dave Balderstone wrote:
> I've got a couple of the Lee Valley ones. They're great. Definitely up
> there in the bang-for-buck category.

One thing I wish LV would carry is some rip-cut kataba (single blade)
saws. Their katabas (power, plywood) are all cross-cut, if I remember
correctly. (And poor Daniel lives in Canada, which makes ordering from
US shops a wee bit of a hassle.)

They now carry a rip-cut JP dovetail saw, but that thing is expensive!

- Daniel

I bought mine in Japan. Paid the equivalent of $20. How much cheaper
do you expect a saw to be? If you found one for $10, it would be made
in China instead of Japan, and the teeth wouldn't be tempered
correctly. It's not like you need a dozen of them. If I were you,
I'd buy the one you found at Lee Valley and start making sawdust.

DonkeyHody
"Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him." - Thomas
Carlyle


Jay Pique <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I read in the July issue of American Woodworker that Lee Valley's
> dozuki at $22 was a best buy.
>
> One from the Japan Woodworker and another from Woodcraft Supply got
> "Editor's Choice" as did a $138 saw from Misugi Designs.
>
> No other saws were mentioned in this article, however. Anyone out
> there have any secret sources of high quality, fairly priced japanese
> saws? From what I've heard they walk all over western style
> push-cuts.
>
> JP

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:03:25 -0500, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Isn't brittleness also fragility? They're definitely more
>> fragile than Western teeth.
>
> I dunno if brittleness and fragility equate when talking about

You messy, you breaky. Same same.


> And if you think about it, they are quite a bit thinner and narrower
>than Western teeth, so that could be another reason they are prone to
>breakage.

True.


>> I think that working with this saw will help me build patience,
>> my weakest point.
>
> Ay, Japanese pullsaws will definitely do that. They also teach you
>to use a lighter touch when sawing and to let the blade work for you.

I learned that both with the Veritas/Japanese flushcut saw
and with freshly sharpened saws a few years ago. It was a
very nice lesson, and one I won't ever forget. When I work
up a real sweat with a saw, it means I'm working way, way
too hard. A damp brow alerts me to that now and again and
the pace drops while the work proceeds normally.


> Looking at the saw on their website, it looks just like the saw I
>bought from Highland Hardware a while back to replace my old ryoba.
>You'll have to let me know what you think of the aggressiveness of the
>cut and the finish left.

Will do.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications

The Ryoba I bought several years ago works better than I do. Some
place a mirror to show the back side to aid following the line when
cutting. Blades are replaceable.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:36:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>Has anyone tried the razor saw from The Japan Woodworker?

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:07:24 -0500, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

> I've got a Crown flush-cut that I hardly ever use. I've found it's
>just as easy to sneak up on things by using a fine dozuki to get close
>and a chisel to opare down to the surface.

You aupair the surface? I was thinking about getting the LV
folding dozuki until I saw two at the Animalheim wood show.
I might have bought one if only one looked shabby, but since
both did, I passed.


> As for the razor saw -- I wonder if that's like the one I got from
>Garrett Wade a while back. I paid about $40 for it, and it's got very
>fine teeth and a tiny kerf. Unfortunately, it cuts so slow that I have
>problems with it drifting off vertical (it's my fault, but the slower a
>saw cuts the more chance for you to let it wander).

They don't say what the tooth pattern is in the ad, but the
only twin-edged razor saw they show in the catalog has 9-1/2
tpi crosscut and 6-1/2 tpi rip teeth, so it should be fairly
quick. I think I need the discipline of learning a Japanese
saw. (Whip me, beat me, make me saw with a ryoba.)


> I used to have all kinds of little jigs to help me saw straight, but
>I finally just figured I needed to learn how to do it on my own. Now I
>just start the saw across the corner and watch until I cut all the way
>across the far edge. Once that's done, it's fairly easy to let the
>starting cut keep you going straight and you can just concentrate on the
>line on top of the piece. Another thing I do is to cut just outside the
>line (like maybe 1/32") and then plane to the line. As long as you have
>a visible line (or scribe mark) to plane to, it's easy to get a
>close-to-perfect edge.

Bueno. With the pull saw, do you start the cut on the far
corner and work toward you, the opposite of Western saws?
I'm thinking that I probably need to avoid the "starting cut
backstroke" I use with Western saws, too.


> I haven't noticed mine dulling particularly quickly, but they are
>prone to breaking a tooth if you force the action or get careless. Some
>can be re-sharpened (they make feather-edge files specifically for
>this), but there's no way I'm up to that task. :-) Usually you just
>replace the blade.

Yeah, you simply can't force a 0.021" blade much, can you?


> FWIW, I've had my ryoba/dozuki for almost 7 years now, and it's lost
>two teeth on the dozuki side (from carelessness on my part). It's still

"Ryoba/dozuki" and "dozuki side"?


>sharp enough that I use it for ripping thin pieces and general
>crosscutting. I figured it had to be getting dull, so I bought another
>one (this time from Highland Hardware), but I still prefer using the old
>one. The new one seems too aggressive and doesn't leave as clean a cut.

Maybe it will once you dull it a bit with use, eh?

Yeah, I think I'll get on the phone in an hour or so and
order that saw. I'm in a definitively Japanese mood.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, the term "Homo Sapiens" is a goal, not a description.
----
http://www.diversify.com Web Design for YOUR Business!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay -

Heck, I've had GREAT luck with the Vaughn Bear Saw, for well under 20
bucks - Got mine at the Borg. The saw blade is thinner than a felon's
excuse and sharper than a CPA's pencil. I've used them for years and I
can't imagine how much better a hundred dollar Japanese saw could be. One
side of the blade has crosscut teeth, the other side has rip teeth and I've
been VERY happy with them for dovetails, flush cutting of pins and dowels,
etc.

FWIW, Amazon *used* to stock the blades... here's a part number that may
help you out elsewhere...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004Z2WI/qid=1092888656/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-5090998-9672133?v=glance&s=hi

HTH

John Moorhead


"Jay Pique" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I read in the July issue of American Woodworker that Lee Valley's
> dozuki at $22 was a best buy.
>
> One from the Japan Woodworker and another from Woodcraft Supply got
> "Editor's Choice" as did a $138 saw from Misugi Designs.
>
> No other saws were mentioned in this article, however. Anyone out
> there have any secret sources of high quality, fairly priced japanese
> saws? From what I've heard they walk all over western style
> push-cuts.
>
> JP
>

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:13:32 -0500, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

> I don't really have that luxury down here in Texas, as many days I
>can work up a sweat just by walking out into the shop. :-}
>
> But your point is taken.

It got up to about 30% during the recent rains but it normally
sits around 15% hummerditty here. <nomex=ON>


> FWIW, I checked on the saw I got from Highland. It's not the same
>as yours afterall. IIRC, it's an Ikedame (sp?) ryoba. I gave it a spin
>ripping some 1-1/2" thick stock, and it did OK.

Uh, you just looked at the saw and still cain't spell it?!?
Well, I'll be.


> BTW, I was sweating when I was done.
>
> Of course it was about 95 degrees and 95% humidity.

That'll do 'er.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:20:04 -0500, Conan the Librarian
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:

>Jay Pique wrote:
>
>
>> I read in the July issue of American Woodworker that Lee Valley's
>> dozuki at $22 was a best buy.
>>
>> One from the Japan Woodworker and another from Woodcraft Supply got
>> "Editor's Choice" as did a $138 saw from Misugi Designs.
>>
>> No other saws were mentioned in this article, however. Anyone out
>> there have any secret sources of high quality, fairly priced japanese
>> saws? From what I've heard they walk all over western style
>> push-cuts.
>
> I dunno about "secret sources", but some years ago I bought a
>Korean-made duzuki that was more than adequate (I think I got it from
>Japan Woodworkers). Paid about $20 for it. Also, Woodcraft used to
>carry a mini-dozuki "Z" panel-saw that cost maybe $25. I still use mine
>from time-to-time for cutting dovetails and fine crosscuts in thin stock
>(depth of cut is only a little more than 1").
>
> Then there's the "Samurai" ryoba/dozuki combo I bought at Woodcraft
>a while back. Paid ~$40 for it, and I still use it for routine
>crosscuting and ripping.

Has anyone tried the razor saw from The Japan Woodworker?
It appears to be their $37.75 ryoba but is $25.95 postpaid.
I love how the Veritas flush-cutter works.


> However, be warned that some folks just simply cannot adjust to the
>pull motion for sawing. Personally, I like it for doing fine work, but
>others don't care for it. (I suspect part of the problem may be that
>these folks are accustomed to overpowering their western saws, and the
>pull saws take a light touch.) For me, the only negatives are: You
>always have dust from the cut covering the line you are trying to saw

A piece of tubing stops that. Put one end in y our mouth and
one under the hand you're using to position the wood. Aim it
at the cut and give it a puff when you can't see the cut-to line.


>to, and due to the handle-style, you have to be careful or the saws tend
>to wander off vertical.

And unlike Western saws, they're nearly impossible to reposition.
I've been starting cuts with a tubatwo next to the saw to check
my angles.


>Also, beware that Japanese saws in general seem
>to be better suited for softwoods or soft hardwoods.

Do they dull quickly and are not sharpenable?


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, the term "Homo Sapiens" is a goal, not a description.
----
http://www.diversify.com Web Design for YOUR Business!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:36:39 -0700, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

>A piece of tubing stops that. Put one end in y our mouth and
>one under the hand you're using to position the wood. Aim it
>at the cut and give it a puff when you can't see the cut-to line.

Just remember to breath in through the nose, out through the mouth, in
through the nose . . . :-)

David

On 23 Aug 2004 05:02:30 -0700, [email protected] (Conan The Librarian)
calmly ranted:

> I don't know if you need to avoid it, it's just that it won't have
>the same effect. :-) Now that you've got me thinking about it, I do
>make a very slight push stroke first with my dozuki. But it goes
>immediately into a pullstroke. It basically just scores the corner
>before my pullstroke begins.

The teeth look considerably more fragile so I thought I'd
ask. Don't they also taper to finer at the handle end to
coarser at the far end, for starting purposes, or is that
just in the $80 models?


>> Yeah, you simply can't force a 0.021" blade much, can you?
>
> Especially a blade with no re-enforced back on it.

Like pushing a rope.


>> Maybe it will once you dull it a bit with use, eh?
>
> That's exactly what I was thinking after I wrote that. I guess I
>need to use it more just to see. It does appear to have a bit of burr
>on the sides of the teeth, so I could probably knock that off with
>use.

>> Yeah, I think I'll get on the phone in an hour or so and
>> order that saw. I'm in a definitively Japanese mood.
>
> Do you really think so?

...but I am not turning Japanese, I am not turning Japanese,
I really think so. (BTW, I had the same tune pop into my
head as I wrote the original line. Weird minds think alike.)



--
Impeach 'em ALL!
----------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming