cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

23/08/2004 8:55 AM

joint types

Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
positioned, and reinforced joints.

The last one, I get. I can find only two vo-tech references to the first two,
with no explanation at all of what either means. Usually, IME, that means
someone has picked up a bit of jargon and is using it to impress others.
Sometimes, it means it is obscure. But if it's used to describe vo-tech course
work, it shouldn't be obscure, though either use alone brings up NO hits on
google.

Any answers? Further questions to research?

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary


This topic has 15 replies

pR

[email protected] (Routerman P. Warner)

in reply to [email protected] (Charlie Self) on 23/08/2004 8:55 AM

24/08/2004 10:08 AM

Reference (positioned) is to a connection that registers itself.
Examples T&G, mortice & tenon, rabbet, glue joint etc. Glue or
fasteners will then keep the thing situated but not necessarily add
strength to all stresses.
A nonpositioned (unregistered) joint will depend entirely on adhesive
& hardware for its location and strength. Example: A cross with 2
nails in it, often found along American Highways designating the sites
of fatalities.
http://www.patwarner.com (Routers)
*********************************************************
> Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
> positioned, and reinforced joints.
>
> The last one, I get. I can find only two vo-tech references to the first two,
> with no explanation at all of what either means. Usually, IME, that means
> someone has picked up a bit of jargon and is using it to impress others.
> Sometimes, it means it is obscure. But if it's used to describe vo-tech course
> work, it shouldn't be obscure, though either use alone brings up NO hits on
> google.
>
> Any answers? Further questions to research?
>
> Charlie Self
> "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
> Devil's Dictionary

pR

[email protected] (Routerman P. Warner)

in reply to [email protected] (Routerman P. Warner) on 24/08/2004 10:08 AM

24/08/2004 4:46 PM

Nomenclature may be vague but I believe concept has merit.
The relationships, intimacies of the connections, and hardware are
indeed profound. A lousy #10 screw in the face of dry maple may
tolerate 500 pounds of pull. Exploit that with a joint and some glue
and you have furniture that will withstand prison riots, libraries
and nursery schools!
http://www.patwarner.com (Routers)
****************************************************
> Pat Warner responds:
>
> >Reference (positioned) is to a connection that registers itself.
> >Examples T&G, mortice & tenon, rabbet, glue joint etc. Glue or
> >fasteners will then keep the thing situated but not necessarily add
> >strength to all stresses.
> >A nonpositioned (unregistered) joint will depend entirely on adhesive
> >& hardware for its location and strength. Example: A cross with 2
> >nails in it, often found along American Highways designating the sites
> >of fatalities.
>
> Pat, thanks. In other words, it's primarily BS invented to allow vo-tech
> teachers to impress their students with vague words.
>
> Woodworking as sociology.
>
> Charlie Self
> "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
> Devil's Dictionary

cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to [email protected] (Routerman P. Warner) on 24/08/2004 10:08 AM

24/08/2004 6:03 PM

Pat Warner responds:

>Reference (positioned) is to a connection that registers itself.
>Examples T&G, mortice & tenon, rabbet, glue joint etc. Glue or
>fasteners will then keep the thing situated but not necessarily add
>strength to all stresses.
>A nonpositioned (unregistered) joint will depend entirely on adhesive
>& hardware for its location and strength. Example: A cross with 2
>nails in it, often found along American Highways designating the sites
>of fatalities.

Pat, thanks. In other words, it's primarily BS invented to allow vo-tech
teachers to impress their students with vague words.

Woodworking as sociology.

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

LL

"Lawrence L'Hote"

in reply to [email protected] (Routerman P. Warner) on 24/08/2004 10:08 AM

24/08/2004 8:17 PM


"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Pat Warner responds:
>
> >Reference (positioned) is to a connection that registers itself.
> >Examples T&G, mortice & tenon, rabbet, glue joint etc. Glue or
> >fasteners will then keep the thing situated but not necessarily add
> >strength to all stresses.
> >A nonpositioned (unregistered) joint will depend entirely on adhesive
> >& hardware for its location and strength. Example: A cross with 2
> >nails in it, often found along American Highways designating the sites
> >of fatalities.
>
> Pat, thanks. In other words, it's primarily BS invented to allow vo-tech
> teachers to impress their students with vague words.
>
> Woodworking as sociology.

Oh I wouldn't hit on the just vo-tech teachers. We science teachers used to
do much the same. I got a big dose of this pretentiousness while in the
infantry('66-'68). The NCOs used terms like 'retrograde movement' instead
of 'run like hell back the other way' or 'defilade position' for 'dig a big
hole and hide the armored personnel carrier in there'. Of course, there was
'affirmative' for 'yes.'

Larry


cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to "Lawrence L'Hote" on 24/08/2004 8:17 PM

24/08/2004 9:16 PM

Lawrence L'Hote notes:

> I got a big dose of this pretentiousness while in the
>infantry('66-'68). The NCOs used terms like 'retrograde movement' instead
>of 'run like hell back the other way' or 'defilade position' for 'dig a big
>hole and hide the armored personnel carrier in there'. Of course, there was
>'affirmative' for 'yes.'

I guess all outfits have their jargon, but to expect it to last as a standard
of setting nomenclature, it's kind of nice to have it bruited about at least a
little. Positioned and non-positioned are not in any of about 30 woodworking
texts I've examined. Anyway, the Marine Corps preferred "Aye, Aye, Sir!" to
either "Ayup" or "Affirmative."

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

JJ

in reply to "Lawrence L'Hote" on 24/08/2004 8:17 PM

24/08/2004 5:26 PM

Tue, Aug 24, 2004, 8:17pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Lawrence=A0L'Hote)
swears that:
<snip> I got a big dose of this pretentiousness while in the
infantry('66-'68). The NCOs used terms like 'retrograde movement'
instead of 'run like hell back the other way' or 'defilade position' for
'dig a big hole and hide the armored personnel carrier in there'. Of
course, there was 'affirmative' for 'yes.'

Actually, those terms have pretty specific meansings - but should
be appropriate only in textbooks - because too much room for confusion
in everyday use. Too many people just plain use them wrong.

But don't blame it all on the NCOs. There is a certain type of
young officer, fresh out of college, who wants to "impress" everyone
with their "superior" knowledge, by using as many large, and obscure,
words as they can. Usually they're the only one who knows what they're
trying to say. I've seen 3 page memos (typewritten, single-spaced)
written by a new young officer, gone over by someone else, and boiled
down to maybe 10 lines. Some NCOs pick up on the habit (usually younger
NCOs, but some older kiss-ups too).

That type of officer is too often the type who comes back later
andy say something like, "I know that's what I said, but that's not what
I meant". Had a lot of civilian bosses the same way. They never seem
to learn, you've got to know what, and how, your people do something,
before you can supervise them in it.

As far as affermative, and negative, for yes and no, not a bad habit
to get into. Could be be a bitch in combat to think you heard "go", but
were actually told "no".



JOAT
Don't complain: When a dog barks, he loses his bone.
- Bazooka Joe

Porky Pig says: http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/porky/Porky03.wav

JJ

in reply to [email protected] (Charlie Self) on 23/08/2004 8:55 AM

24/08/2004 5:34 PM

Mon, Aug 23, 2004, 8:55am (EDT+4) From: [email protected]
(Charlie=A0Self)
Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
positioned, <snip>

I think I read the same article. But, I've also seen both phrases
in reference to welding - there was an "explanation" of sorts, but it
didn't make any sense - depended on tip size needed.

To further confuse it, I've also seen the phrases in medical use.

Far as woodworking, Pat may well have it right.



JOAT
Don't complain: When a dog barks, he loses his bone.
- Bazooka Joe

Porky Pig says: http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/porky/Porky03.wav

bR

[email protected] (Robert Bonomi)

in reply to [email protected] (Charlie Self) on 23/08/2004 8:55 AM

25/08/2004 1:05 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
>positioned, and reinforced joints.

"non-positioned" -- away from the lips
"positioned" -- at the lips, pending inhalation
"reinforced" -- rolled using chemically impregnated paper.



Mm

MikeG

in reply to [email protected] (Charlie Self) on 23/08/2004 8:55 AM

23/08/2004 8:08 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
> positioned, and reinforced joints.
>
> The last one, I get. I can find only two vo-tech references to the first two,
> with no explanation at all of what either means. Usually, IME, that means
> someone has picked up a bit of jargon and is using it to impress others.
> Sometimes, it means it is obscure. But if it's used to describe vo-tech course
> work, it shouldn't be obscure, though either use alone brings up NO hits on
> google.
>
> Any answers? Further questions to research?
>
> Charlie Self
> "Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
> Devil's Dictionary
>

Not in any book I own,

--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
[email protected]

b

in reply to [email protected] (Charlie Self) on 23/08/2004 8:55 AM

25/08/2004 11:38 PM

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:05:34 +0000, [email protected]
(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
>>positioned, and reinforced joints.
>
> "non-positioned" -- away from the lips
> "positioned" -- at the lips, pending inhalation
> "reinforced" -- rolled using chemically impregnated paper.
>
>
>


I remember when, for a while, rolling papers were offered with a piece
of wire in them... built in roach clip...

cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to [email protected] on 25/08/2004 11:38 PM

26/08/2004 7:46 AM

bridger notes:

>>Charlie Self <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
>>>positioned, and reinforced joints.
>>
>> "non-positioned" -- away from the lips
>> "positioned" -- at the lips, pending inhalation
>> "reinforced" -- rolled using chemically impregnated paper.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>I remember when, for a while, rolling papers were offered with a piece
>of wire in them... built in roach clip...

I recall back in the '60s thinking about the entrepreneur who sold brass hash
pipes. I thought the guy must have been one helluva turner, crank those things
out by the multiple thousands, with little designs on them, tiny bowl. My first
experience, I think, with something made in India. The entrepreneur was a
salesman, not a metal turner.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to [email protected] on 25/08/2004 11:38 PM

26/08/2004 5:51 AM


"Charlie Self" wrote in message

> I recall back in the '60s thinking about the entrepreneur who sold brass
hash
> pipes. I thought the guy must have been one helluva turner, crank those
things
> out by the multiple thousands, with little designs on them, tiny bowl. My
first
> experience, I think, with something made in India. The entrepreneur was a
> salesman, not a metal turner.

The real resourcefulness was in the use of helicopter fire extinguishers in
a certain combat zone way back when. The bell and contents used to cool down
a six pack, the brass pipe joint with built-in screen to toke a little hash
... a little something for both persuasions.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

cC

[email protected] (Charlie Self)

in reply to "Swingman" on 26/08/2004 5:51 AM

26/08/2004 11:16 AM

Swingman notes:

>
>The real resourcefulness was in the use of helicopter fire extinguishers in
>a certain combat zone way back when. The bell and contents used to cool down
>a six pack, the brass pipe joint with built-in screen to toke a little hash
>... a little something for both persuasions.

We used those CO2 extinguishers in a lot of ways before 'Nam: I sometimes
wonder why, with never a fire, the officers never caught on...at least to the
point where they had to make a public display of their knowledge. Sort of like
all those gallon cider jugs popping their corks in the crawl space under the
barracks.

Charlie Self
"A judge is a law student who marks his own examination papers." H. L. Mencken

Sk

"Swingman"

in reply to "Swingman" on 26/08/2004 5:51 AM

26/08/2004 6:24 AM


"Charlie Self" wrote in message

> sometimes
> wonder why, with never a fire, the officers never caught on...

I won't go any further, except to admit that we liked a cold beer too ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

b

in reply to [email protected] (Charlie Self) on 23/08/2004 8:55 AM

24/08/2004 1:42 PM

On 23 Aug 2004 08:55:55 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:

>Does anyone have a clear explanation of the following: non-positioned,
>positioned, and reinforced joints.
>
>The last one, I get. I can find only two vo-tech references to the first two,

what are those references?



>with no explanation at all of what either means. Usually, IME, that means
>someone has picked up a bit of jargon and is using it to impress others.
>Sometimes, it means it is obscure. But if it's used to describe vo-tech course
>work, it shouldn't be obscure, though either use alone brings up NO hits on
>google.
>
>Any answers? Further questions to research?
>
>Charlie Self
>"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
>Devil's Dictionary


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