Plunge Router on a router table (novice question)

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 00:44:19 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The problem with many routers even those with spindle locks is that the
>collet does not extend far enough through it's base to allow you to put a
>wrench on the collet from the top side of the table.


That was the problem with mine until I replaced the collet with an
"Eliminator" chuck. No need for a wrench (does need a hex key,
'though) or spindle lock.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Missing notes on your issue:

http://patwarner.com/plunge_or_fixed.html ?
**************************************************************

On Apr 20, 12:21=A0pm, "John Picton" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> (now with correct user name - sorry)
> OK I know this it VERY basic stuff but here goes.
> I have a plunge router and a router table.
> Both were fairly cheap but I am on a limited budget, I put the table
> together yesterday and everything fits. But here is the problem... what i=
s
> the best way to adjust the bit height?
>
> I have to reach underneath, push the router up (which isnt easy as there
> appears to be quite a stiff action), flip the lock leaver and then hope i=
t
> is the correct height because any way of fine adjusting appears to be non
> existant.
>
> Am I missing something basic, or should I give up and run away shouting a=
nd
> screaming. You will tell from this that I am at the stage of aspiring to
> novice status!
>
> Oh and another thing the power on the router is a squeeze to activate pow=
er
> and release to stop. What do most people use to keep the power switch in.

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:14:56 -0500, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>BUT does that Eliminator chuck also extend far enough above the top for
>>above the top bit changes? If it does it could open up a lot of potential
>>to other wise not suitable for above the table bit change routers.
>
>
> I suppose it depends on the specific router/mounting technique
> combination, but with my PC7518/Jessem Rout-R-Lift it does.
>
> Before the Eliminator, it was possible to do above the table bit
> changes by raising the router to the upper limit of the lift and
> removing the table insert. There was just enough room to maneuver the
> wrenches (2 required for that router) into position through the insert
> opening to loosen the collet if you held your tongue just right, and
> the moon was in the proper phase.
>
> With the Eliminator, raising the router brings the hex recess locking
> screw on the chuck above the table insert. So the increase in the
> elevation of the chuck is enough to let the chuck can be loosened
> completely from above the plane of the table. Whether that increase is
> sufficient in every case, obviously I can't say.


Thanks, I was wondering if its secondary function was to enable top mounting
regardless of router.

Leon wrote:
> "Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 00:44:19 -0500, "Leon"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with many routers even those with spindle locks is that
>>> the collet does not extend far enough through it's base to allow
>>> you to put a wrench on the collet from the top side of the table.
>>
>>
>> That was the problem with mine until I replaced the collet with an
>> "Eliminator" chuck. No need for a wrench (does need a hex key,
>> 'though) or spindle lock.
>>
>> Tom Veatch
>> Wichita, KS
>> USA
>
> I always half wondered what the "big deal" was with those hex key
> collets. Thanks for pointing out the apparent obvious.
> BUT does that Eliminator chuck also extend far enough above the top
> for above the top bit changes? If it does it could open up a lot of
> potential to other wise not suitable for above the table bit change
> routers.

I picked up one at the Woodworking Show, Peachtree is clearing them out for
$39.00 (regular $69.00). With a $4.00 bushing for 1/4" bits it's certainly
worth a try. It adds enough height that I should easily be able to change
bits above the table. The Peachtree guy said the only thing to look out for
is not cranking the hex screw too far in either direction, apparently it
works some kind of cam that clamps onto the router shaft.

John Picton wrote:

> The more I read the other replies the more I think you migh tbe right
> - as I said on another reply I am on a limited budget but perhaps I
> would be better served saving my pennies and getting a fixed base
> router.
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Cheers
>
> John

Just make sure it can be adjusted easily when mounted in a table. The Bosch
1617 has an adjustment knob (and locking clamp) I find easy to reach under
my table or it can be adjusted with a hex-key from above. Their plunge base
is really nice too, if you can find the kit with both bases used that is a
great way to go. The only thing about the Bosch I don't care for is you
have to pull it out of the table to change bits so I'm looking for an double
right-angled wrench to make it possible to change bits from above as I can't
justify the cost of a lift at the moment.

WOW ....

this was an incredibly helpful post (and inspiring at that)

Thank you sooooo much.

Cheers

John

"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Depends on your wallet:
>
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Ultra-cheap-router-lift/
>
> or
>
> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Router_Table_and_Lift.html
>
> or
>
> http://www.jessem.com/rout_r_lift_fx.htm (The Porsche of lifts)
>
> or a slightly cheaper deal:
>
> http://www.ptreeusa.com/routerAcc.htm#1046
>
> Note that the router raiser is the store bought
> version of option # 1.
>
>
> John Picton wrote:
>> (now with correct user name - sorry)
>> OK I know this it VERY basic stuff but here goes.
>> I have a plunge router and a router table.

With 'my" Triton I have to reach under the table to make an adjustment
"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>>> The Triton got top marks in Fine Woodworking's comparative review,
>>> being able to change bits with the router still in the table would
>>> be useful I must say.
>>
>> It is BUTT ugly and has a rather sickly looking orange plastic pieces
>> but I have had mine for about 3-4 years and have no complaints. Being
>> able to change bits above the table is wonderful, so is being
>> able to make coarse and fine adjustments with minimal effort.
>
> I've actually stopped bothering with the above-table hex key on my Bosch,
> it's just as easy to reach underneath to pop the clamp and use the knob on
> the fixed base at the same time. Changing bits is my only complaint with
> the Bosch, if they incorporated a spindle lock to make it possible to swap
> bits in the table it would be ideal IMO.
>

With "my" Triton I have to reach under the table to make height adjustments,
no big deal. IIRC the newer Tritons allow above table height adjustment.

The problem with many routers even those with spindle locks is that the
collet does not extend far enough through it's base to allow you to put a
wrench on the collet from the top side of the table. The Triton allows
wrench engagement from the top side.

Tom Veatch wrote:

> Just ran across something else that addresses that problem:
>
> http://www.routertechnologies.com/
>
> Don't know how the Xtreme Xtension compares with the eliminator WRT
> price, amount of extension, runout, etc., but it looks like the bit
> retention method is similar. The big difference seems to be that the
> Eliminator replaces the existing collet and the Xtreme Xtension, like
> a router bit, is clamped within the existing 1/2" collet.

Hmmmm, that has possibilities. I could pick up another router like the used
Bosch 1617 I saw recently for $75 and just leave it in the table full-time.
SWMBO would be unlikely to see both routers at the same time and therefore
not catch on....

"John Picton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> (now with correct user name - sorry)
> OK I know this it VERY basic stuff but here goes.
> I have a plunge router and a router table.
> Both were fairly cheap but I am on a limited budget, I put the table
> together yesterday and everything fits. But here is the problem... what
> is
> the best way to adjust the bit height?
>
> I have to reach underneath, push the router up (which isnt easy as there
> appears to be quite a stiff action), flip the lock leaver and then hope
> it
> is the correct height because any way of fine adjusting appears to be non
> existant.
>
> Am I missing something basic, or should I give up and run away shouting
> and
> screaming. You will tell from this that I am at the stage of aspiring to
> novice status!
>
> Oh and another thing the power on the router is a squeeze to activate
> power
> and release to stop. What do most people use to keep the power switch in.
>

I shove the router up to an approximate position, run the depth stop up
till it touches, note how far it has to adjust, drop the router, move the
stop and push it back up. No big deal.

My router has a button on the trigger to lock it into place.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Leon wrote:

> If you are considering that route consider the Triton. It operates
> like a fixed base and a plunge router without ever champing out
> bases. You can change bits from above the table.
>
> This one is relatively inexpensive, has as much power as you will
> ever need in a router and has dropped in price over $100 over the
> last several years, DAMHIKT.
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4519

The Triton got top marks in Fine Woodworking's comparative review, being
able to change bits with the router still in the table would be useful I
must say.

Depends on your wallet:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Ultra-cheap-router-lift/

or

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Router_Table_and_Lift.html

or

http://www.jessem.com/rout_r_lift_fx.htm (The Porsche of lifts)

or a slightly cheaper deal:

http://www.ptreeusa.com/routerAcc.htm#1046

Note that the router raiser is the store bought
version of option # 1.


John Picton wrote:
> (now with correct user name - sorry)
> OK I know this it VERY basic stuff but here goes.
> I have a plunge router and a router table.

John Picton wrote:

> (now with correct user name - sorry)
> OK I know this it VERY basic stuff but here goes.
> I have a plunge router and a router table.
> Both were fairly cheap but I am on a limited budget, I put the table
> together yesterday and everything fits. But here is the problem...
> what is the best way to adjust the bit height?
>
> I have to reach underneath, push the router up (which isnt easy as
> there appears to be quite a stiff action), flip the lock leaver and
> then hope it is the correct height because any way of fine adjusting
> appears to be non existant.

I saw a slightly-used Bosch fixed-base router on Craigslist last week for
$75, I was tempted to buy it and just leave it in my table because the one I
already have works great there and is easy to adjust. I suspect that a
router not designed for adjustment while mounted in a table is always going
to be a pain to set depth on accurately.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:14:56 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>I always half wondered what the "big deal" was with those hex key collets.
>Thanks for pointing out the apparent obvious.
>BUT does that Eliminator chuck also extend far enough above the top for
>above the top bit changes? If it does it could open up a lot of potential
>to other wise not suitable for above the table bit change routers.
>

Just ran across something else that addresses that problem:

http://www.routertechnologies.com/

Don't know how the Xtreme Xtension compares with the eliminator WRT
price, amount of extension, runout, etc., but it looks like the bit
retention method is similar. The big difference seems to be that the
Eliminator replaces the existing collet and the Xtreme Xtension, like
a router bit, is clamped within the existing 1/2" collet.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

The more I read the other replies the more I think you migh tbe right - as I
said on another reply I am on a limited budget but perhaps I would be better
served saving my pennies and getting a fixed base router.

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers

John

"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> John Picton wrote:
>
>> (now with correct user name - sorry)
>> OK I know this it VERY basic stuff but here goes.
>> I have a plunge router and a router table.
>> Both were fairly cheap but I am on a limited budget, I put the table
>> together yesterday and everything fits. But here is the problem...
>> what is the best way to adjust the bit height?
>>
>> I have to reach underneath, push the router up (which isnt easy as
>> there appears to be quite a stiff action), flip the lock leaver and
>> then hope it is the correct height because any way of fine adjusting
>> appears to be non existant.
>
> I saw a slightly-used Bosch fixed-base router on Craigslist last week for
> $75, I was tempted to buy it and just leave it in my table because the one
> I already have works great there and is easy to adjust. I suspect that a
> router not designed for adjustment while mounted in a table is always
> going to be a pain to set depth on accurately.
>

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:14:56 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>BUT does that Eliminator chuck also extend far enough above the top for
>above the top bit changes? If it does it could open up a lot of potential
>to other wise not suitable for above the table bit change routers.


I suppose it depends on the specific router/mounting technique
combination, but with my PC7518/Jessem Rout-R-Lift it does.

Before the Eliminator, it was possible to do above the table bit
changes by raising the router to the upper limit of the lift and
removing the table insert. There was just enough room to maneuver the
wrenches (2 required for that router) into position through the insert
opening to loosen the collet if you held your tongue just right, and
the moon was in the proper phase.

With the Eliminator, raising the router brings the hex recess locking
screw on the chuck above the table insert. So the increase in the
elevation of the chuck is enough to let the chuck can be loosened
completely from above the plane of the table. Whether that increase is
sufficient in every case, obviously I can't say.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

"Tom Veatch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 00:44:19 -0500, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>The problem with many routers even those with spindle locks is that the
>>collet does not extend far enough through it's base to allow you to put a
>>wrench on the collet from the top side of the table.
>
>
> That was the problem with mine until I replaced the collet with an
> "Eliminator" chuck. No need for a wrench (does need a hex key,
> 'though) or spindle lock.
>
> Tom Veatch
> Wichita, KS
> USA

I always half wondered what the "big deal" was with those hex key collets.
Thanks for pointing out the apparent obvious.
BUT does that Eliminator chuck also extend far enough above the top for
above the top bit changes? If it does it could open up a lot of potential
to other wise not suitable for above the table bit change routers.

"John Picton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The more I read the other replies the more I think you migh tbe right - as
> I said on another reply I am on a limited budget but perhaps I would be
> better served saving my pennies and getting a fixed base router.
>
> Thanks for the reply.


If you are considering that route consider the Triton. It operates like a
fixed base and a plunge router without ever champing out bases. You can
change bits from above the table.

This one is relatively inexpensive, has as much power as you will ever need
in a router and has dropped in price over $100 over the last several years,
DAMHIKT.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4519

"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>> If you are considering that route consider the Triton. It operates
>> like a fixed base and a plunge router without ever champing out
>> bases. You can change bits from above the table.
>>
>> This one is relatively inexpensive, has as much power as you will
>> ever need in a router and has dropped in price over $100 over the
>> last several years, DAMHIKT.
>>
>> http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4519
>
> The Triton got top marks in Fine Woodworking's comparative review, being
> able to change bits with the router still in the table would be useful I
> must say.

It is BUTT ugly and has a rather sickly looking orange plastic pieces but I
have had mine for about 3-4 years and have no complaints. Being able to
change bits above the table is wonderful, so is being able to make coarse
and fine adjustments with minimal effort.

Leon wrote:

>> The Triton got top marks in Fine Woodworking's comparative review,
>> being able to change bits with the router still in the table would
>> be useful I must say.
>
> It is BUTT ugly and has a rather sickly looking orange plastic pieces
> but I have had mine for about 3-4 years and have no complaints. Being able
> to change bits above the table is wonderful, so is being
> able to make coarse and fine adjustments with minimal effort.

I've actually stopped bothering with the above-table hex key on my Bosch,
it's just as easy to reach underneath to pop the clamp and use the knob on
the fixed base at the same time. Changing bits is my only complaint with
the Bosch, if they incorporated a spindle lock to make it possible to swap
bits in the table it would be ideal IMO.