Good versus Evil

Genome,

replies embedded below,

Greg

"Genome" wrote..
> Thanks, Greg.
<snip>

> The reason I looked into this newsgroup is I recently built my first
> raised panel doors and the first thing I learned is don't use the
> finished wood.

Not sure what you mean here, other than using pre dimensioned wood is not a
good idea. If so, yes, sizing it yourself allows you to get a 'true' finish
on the surface, and the wood will be the dimension you want/need. Buying
dimensioned lumber is risky as it will be all different sizes.

> A couple of questions I have is:
>
> 1. The so called user guide that came with my router bits said to give
> an eighth of an inch slack for the panel. It did not say overall or
> each side so naturally I did each side so now the panel is too small.
> How much floating to allow for expansion and contraction?

1/8" laterally seems to be fine, that is - 1/16" each side. Try
http://tinyurl.com/rg4q for a discussion on shrinkage. Note the following
longer url is for later, when the tiny url is expired.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=64770499%40hpcss01.cup.hp.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fas_q%3Dpanels%2520expansion%2520allowance%26safe%3Dimages%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3Drec.woodworking%26lr%3Dlang_en%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den

> 2. Does one apply the finish before glueing them up or after. There is
> some finish sanding and routing edges to be done after.

I am not a finishing guru, my projects will attest to that, however,
generally, you should finish the panel, glue up the assembly, then finish
the rest. I strongly suggest you read some of the following threads from
years past. In particular, read comments from Tom Watson, Paul Radovanic,
Bob Sosenko, Owen Lowe and Leon. The discussions are worthwhile and have no
religious references :-) Paul Radovanic is my favourite as he had a keen
interest in the "why", as well as the "how".

http://tinyurl.com/rg5j or

http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=panels+finishing+group%3Arec.woodworking

good luck,

Greg

Sat, Oct 18, 2003, 1:19am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Genome)
says:
Howdy, all,
I'm confused.(a common ocuurance with me, I'm afraid. Please, no
sypmpathy)
Is this an Australian newsgroup?
I thought is was a woodworking newsgroup and if it is what the hell is
this relegion crap doing here?
God help us with these relegious zealots

The problem is not religious zealots. The problem is trolls. The
religious people are kind enough to stay with their own newsgroups. The
trols cross-post off-topic crap just to stir things up, then every time
someone replies, the post shows up on all the cross-posted groups.

And, no it ain't an Australian newsgroup, but international. And,
it is a woodworking group. Just has a troll infestation recently. Just
off the top of my head I know of people from Australia, United States,
Canada, England, Germany, South Africa, New Zealand, Finland, Japan, and
some more places I can't remember just now.

JOAT
I'd be happy to help you out. Which way did you come in?

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 17 Oct 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

Genome,

read the FAQ by David Eisan (posted weekly) and learn how to filter the
trolls and cross-posts, otherwise your time here is likely to be short and
unenjoyable, welcome to the group.

Greg (Melbourne)

"Genome" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Was scrolling through the newsgroup and came across this header about
> good christians vs. the bad muslim extremists.

etc...

Greg,
I don't won't to get into a flame thing but "read the FAQ by David
Eisner" is about as helpful as macaroni and cheese.
Being new to the newsgroup world I have no idea where to find this.

TIA,
Genome

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:21:41 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Genome,
>
>read the FAQ by David Eisan (posted weekly) and learn how to filter the
>trolls and cross-posts, otherwise your time here is likely to be short and
>unenjoyable, welcome to the group.
>
>Greg (Melbourne)
>
>"Genome" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Was scrolling through the newsgroup and came across this header about
>> good christians vs. the bad muslim extremists.
>
>etc...
>

"Genome" wrote:
> Greg,
> I don't won't to get into a flame thing but "read the FAQ by David
> Eisner" is about as helpful as macaroni and cheese.
> Being new to the newsgroup world I have no idea where to find this.


Genome,

no problem, FAQ included below. The FAQ is "Frequently Asked Questions".

I mentioned the FAQ without further explanation as you use Forte' Agent and
munge your email address - which indicates some experience at least. Anyhow,
any questions, fire away, I'll help if I can.

Greg



==================================
PREVIOUSLY POSTED BY DAVID F. EISAN
==================================
Dear New User,

** Welcome to rec.woodworking, known locally as the wreck **

This is an informal group with users of all levels of knowledge, from those
who have yet to pick up a tool, professional woodworkers, authors of books
on woodworking, woodworking magazine editors, principals of tool companies,
and every level in between.

One of the traditions of Usenet Newsgroups (NG) that is encouraged, is the
tradition of "lurking", or hanging around for a while, taking in the local
culture before posting to the NG. While not mandatory, it is asked that you
just sit back and read the NG for a short time before your first posting.
This will allow you to become familiar with how things are done in this neck
of the woods, become familiar with the locals, etc.

This group is a collection of people with a common interest in woodworking
(ww'ing), and as such the topics discussed sometimes wander away from
strictly ww'ing. Think of this NG as if you were having a number of friends
over to your shop to discuss ww'ing, 90% of the discussion will revolve
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Please DO NOT post off topic. If you *MUST* make an off topic post, please
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can skip them..

NOTE: I have recently been receiving a lot of flack from the cabal regarding
the preceding paragraph. Apparently, a few of them think I am encouraging OT
posts, I am not, I am simply providing a way of distinguishing them so those
who want to skip them can, or even put OT in their kill file if they wish.

If you find yourself being referred to as a "newbie", don't take offence; it
is not a derogatory term, but a statement of fact.

Sometimes some members of this NG can be a little harsh, take it in stride,
put on your Nomex underwear and fire back. The timid don't survive NG's for
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decorum is still the common practice rather than the exception.

One resource that is even greater than this NG is this NG's archives. Every
message posted here is stored on Deja.com (now http://groups.google.com/).
Many knowledgeable wreckers no longer post on topics asked every other day,
because of the repetitive nature. If you want the most in depth answer to
your question, check Deja, if you do not get all the information you
require, then post your question to the NG.

Another useful Search Engine is Usenet Replayer, http://usenet-replayer.com
.

** A note on Trolls **

People, when will you learn, *PLEASE* do not reply to the trolls, leave them
under their pitiful bridge to starve. And they will starve, and go away if
you stop feeding them with your replies.

** How to use Nfilter to filter out Trolls and other useless crap **

I have been using the wreck for years now, and I finally broke down and had
to start using filters due to a recent troll attack.


1. Download & install NewsProxy from http://www.nfilter.org/
Basic instructions are at http://www.nfilter.org/faq.html#2.2

2. Copy the "NewsProxy" shortcut from - C:\Program Files\NewsProxy\
To - C:\WINDOWS\Start Menu\Programs\StartUp\
[Modify this to suit your OS. I'm running win98SE.]

3. Start OE. Right click on your news folder (not rec.ww - you want the main
news folder) and select Properties. Select the Server tab. Copy
the information from the Server Name box. Enter "localhost" (without the
quote marks) in the Server Name box. Select the Advanced tab and
make sure that News(NNTP): is set to 119. Click OK.

4. In NewsProxy. Select Edit | Configuration | Network tab. In Server Name
or IP Number paste the information from Server Name you copied
in step 3. Click OK. Select Edit | Filters. Copy the following 6 lines to
the bottom of the file & be sure not to leave any blank lines.

rec.woodworking drop xref:*rec.pets*
rec.woodworking drop xref:*:*:*:*
rec.woodworking drop from:*puppy*
rec.woodworking drop from:*Al Kyder*
rec.woodworking drop from:*LoxFather*
rec.woodworking drop from:*bwa*ha*ha*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*fuck*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*cocksuck*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*sexy*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*kyder*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*sharpton*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*Happy*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*Ted Rumple*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*GreaseBall Italian*
rec.woodworking drop subject:*Spam Blocked*
You should be able to see from those examples how to add additional rules to
drop messages with certain words in the subject or from specific users. If
you have any questions, please reply to this message.

Save and close the file.

5. If you are running a firewall like ZoneAlarm you will need to enable
NewsProxy to function as a server.

I am working on some additional rules, if anyone has any to add, please let
me know.

A special thankyou to Art, AKA the Wood Butcher for his help installing
Nfilter, It works, go get it and install it now.


** A note about advice you receive here on the wreck **

While most of the advice you will receive here will be top notch, use common
sense, if something does not feel/sound safe don't do it. Just because
someone else does something one way does not mean that is the only or even
the correct way. Your safety is your responsibility.


** How to use the Google rec.woodworking archive search engine **

Click this link to do a power search,

http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search

You will be taken to a page where you can enter specifically what you are
looking for.

Into the blue shaded area you can be as specific or vague about what you are
looking for, with words to include and exclude from your search.

Be sure to enter "rec.woodworking" as the newsgroup you wish to search.

Some people say that if everyone were to use Google before they posted a
question, this NG would be dead. I totally disagree, all that would happen
is that many of the common repetitive posts would disappear and people would
get better advice. Many of the most knowledgeable people from this NG have
left due to the high noise to signal ratio.


**** NEW GOOGLE BETA FEATURE ****

Google now has a new image search engine, great for finding ideas on design!

Check it out,

http://images.google.com


** Answers to VERY common questions **
(my personal summations)

- Is Grizzly any good?
The consensus would seem to be that Grizzly is a little hit and miss. The
price is right, but the fit and finish will not be up to par with Jet and
Delta. Sometimes you will get a Lemon. Waiting over a month for delivery is
not uncommon.

- Where can I get plans?
See some links at the bottom of this message

- Where can I get plans for a router table?
See above.

- Jet vs. Delta?
At this time it seems that both are excellent products, with Jet having the
edge in value.

- What is SWMBO? (or DAMHIKT or BTDT or POS, etc.)
See link at bottom to full rec.woodworking FAQ.

- Should I buy a Craftsman power tool?
No.

- Should I use PVC pipe for compressed air lines?
http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

- This newsgroup should be split.
A subject that has been beaten to death. The wreck will remain the way it
is. This NG has been pick choose for a while; simply skip over what does not
interest you.

- How do I stain Cherry?
You don't.

- What is the proper finish for a cutting board?
Mineral Oil.

- How do I protect cast iron tabletops from rust?
Plain 'ol Johnson's paste floor wax.

- Who or What are the Borg? (courtesy of John Moorhead)
Collectively, BORG is any of the big box home improvement centers that
resemble the BORG (short for cyborg - a melding of robot and human or other
species) "Cube" space vessels in "Star Trek the next generation" - they come
into town and assimilate (read: wipe out) the small, medium and sometimes
large local hardware/lumber/home improvement stores. Also specifically,
Home Depot as an acronym Big Orange Retail Giant. - You have been
assimilated. - Locutus


** Links to great woodworking reference sites **

- *** The Old Woodworking Machinery Website ***, Everything you wanted to
know about buying, restoring and using vintage woodworking machinery,
http://www.oldwwmachines.com/
- *** The full FAQ (frequently asked questions) for this newsgroup ***,
http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
- *** Dust Collection FAQ ***, everything you wanted to know about dust
collection, http://home.attbi.com/~dstig1/dustfaq_1.html

- Canadian lumber suppliers,
http://members.rogers.com/wsguthrie/suppliers.htm
- Steambending FAQ, http://www.wcha.org/tidbits/steamfaq.html
- *Free* Plans, http://absolutelyfreeplans.com
- *Loads of Free Plans and Links*,
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr/flip/www/plans.html
- WoodShop Demos, lots of ww'ing demos and info,
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/menu2.htm
- Woodworker's Central, where you can find reviews of equipment, FREE plans
and much much more, http://www.woodworking.org/
- WoodBin Plan Finder, http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/planfinder.htm
- Internet Woodworking.com W5, Free plans, much reference material,
http://www.internetwoodworking.com/
- Plans Now, pay ww'ing plans, http://www.plansnow.com/index.html
- Free Woodworking Plans, http://www.freeplans.com/
- More Free Woodworking Plans, http://plans.the3house.com/
- Woodweb, lots of ww'ing industry info, http://www.woodweb.com/
- Woodworking.com, http://www.woodworking.com/
- The Oak Factory, general ww'ing info, http://theoak.com/
- Portal: The Woodworking Industry Internet Directory,
http://www.iswonline.com/index.shtml
- Old Tools Mailing List FAQ, info for collectors and users of old hand
tools, http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/OTFAQ.htm
- The Electronic Neanderthal, traditional ww'ing info,
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/frontpage.html
- Patrick's Blood and Gore, Everything you ever wanted to know about
Stanley hand plans, and much more,
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
- Scary Sharp, find out what all the fuss is about, how to sharpen tools
with sandpaper, http://www.shavings.net/SCARY.HTM#original
- Health Hazards of Wood, http://www.ubeaut.com.au/badwood.htm
- Bernie Hunt's Porter-Cable 557 plate joiner FAQ's,
http://www.huntfamily.com/pc557.cfm


** Links to Woodworking Magazines **

- Fine Woodworking, http://www.taunton.com/fw/
- Popular Woodworking, http://www.popularwoodworking.com/
- Wood Magazine, http://www.woodmagazine.com
- Woodworkers Journal, http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/
- Canadian Woodworking magazine, http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/
- Shop Notes Magazine, http://www.shopnotes.com/
- Woodsmith Magazine, http://www.woodsmith.com/
- Workbench Magazine, http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/


** Links to online retailers **

- Lee Valley, Great tools, http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp
- Grizzly, http://www.grizzly.com
- Rockler, http://www.rockler.com
- Woodcraft, http://shop.woodcraft.com
- Garrett Wade, http://www.garrettwade.com
- Amazon, Tool Crib of the North, http://www.amazon.com/
- Jeff Jewit's Homestead Finishing, great finishing advice and finishing
products, http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/
- Paddy O'deens (Patrick Olguin) Shellac.net, best Shellac on the net,
http://www.shellac.net/index.html
- Woodfinishes online, http://woodfinishingsupplies.com/


** Links to Woodworking Equipment manufacturers **

- General and General International, http://www.general.ca/
- Delta, http://www.deltawoodworking.com
- Jet USA, http://www.jettools.com/
- Jet Canada, http://www.jetequipment.com/
- Trademaster Canada, http://www.trademasterltd.com
- Toolex International, http://www.toolex.ca
- Performax Sanders, http://www.performaxproducts.com/
- Powermatic, http://www.powermatic.com/
- Wilke Machinery Company (Bridgewood), http://www.wilkemachinery.com
- Dewalt, http://www.dewalt.com/us/core/
- Porter Cable, http://www.porter-cable.com/
- Hitachi Power Tools,
http://www.hitachi.com/Apps/hitachicom/content.jsp?page=index.html&path=jsp/hitachi/consumerproducts/PowerTools/
- Makita, http://www.makita.com/
- Bosch, http://www.boschtools.com/
- Milwaukee, http://www.mil-electric-tool.com/
- Northfield Foundry & Machine Co., Serious Big Iron, in the old iron
tradition, http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com
- Forrest Saw Blades (makers of the famous WWII blade),
http://www.forrestsawblades.com/
- Lie-Nielsen (top of the line hand planes), http://www.lie-nielsen.com/
- Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes, traditional wooden hand planes,
http://www.knight-toolworks.com/
- Leigh Dovetail Jig, best DT jig on the market, http://www.leighjigs.com
- The National Router Academy, http://www.nationalrouteracademy.com/
- Carter, the famous bandsaw guide company, http://www.carterproducts.com/

** Links to Woodworking shows on TV **

- New Yankee Workshop, http://www.newyankee.com/
- The Woodwright's Shop with Roy Underhill,
http://www.ibiblio.org/uncpress/woodwright/
- The American Woodshop with Scott Phillips,
http://www.americanwoodshop.org/resources/
- In the Workshop with John Silloats, (Canadian),
http://www.intheworkshop.com/
- The Router Workshop, http://www.routerworkshop.com/

** Related News Groups **

- alt.binaries.pictures.furniture
- alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
- rec.crafts.woodturning
- rec.crafts.carving
- alt.home.repair

Thanks,

David.

Every neighbourhood has one, in mine, I'm him.

Remove the "splinter" from my email address to email me.

Newbies, please read this newsgroups full FAQ.

rec.ww FAQ http://www.robson.org/woodfaq/
Archives http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
crowbar FAQ http://www.klownhammer.org/crowbar

Thanks, Greg

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:27:27 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Genome,
>
>replies embedded below,
>
>Greg
>>
>http://tinyurl.com/rg5j or
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=panels+finishing+group%3Arec.woodworking
>
>good luck,
>
>Greg
>

Was scrolling through the newsgroup and came across this header about
good christians vs. the bad muslim extremists.
Unfortunately it was about a month old so staying in that thread would
have been like talking to wall
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:13:37 -0400 (EDT), [email protected]
(T.) wrote:

>Sat, Oct 18, 2003, 1:19am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Genome)
>says:
>Howdy, all,
>I'm confused.(a common ocuurance with me, I'm afraid. Please, no
>sypmpathy)
>Is this an Australian newsgroup?
>I thought is was a woodworking newsgroup and if it is what the hell is
>this relegion crap doing here?
>God help us with these relegious zealots
>
> The problem is not religious zealots. The problem is trolls. The

I ain't no troll

>religious people are kind enough to stay with their own newsgroups. The

if this was true what the hell was I reading?

>trols cross-post off-topic crap just to stir things up, then every time
>someone replies, the post shows up on all the cross-posted groups.
>
> And, no it ain't an Australian newsgroup, but international. And,
>it is a woodworking group. Just has a troll infestation recently. Just
>off the top of my head I know of people from Australia, United States,
>Canada, England, Germany, South Africa, New Zealand, Finland, Japan, and
>some more places I can't remember just now.
>
>JOAT
>I'd be happy to help you out. Which way did you come in?
>
>Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
>Web Page Update 17 Oct 2003.
>Some tunes I like.
>http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/

Thanks, Greg.

I have used Agent for a couple of years but have not had the time to
study all the nuances.

The reason I looked into this newsgroup is I recently built my first
raised panel doors and the first thing I learned is don't use the
finished wood.
A couple of questions I have is:

1. The so called user guide that came with my router bits said to give
an eighth of an inch slack for the panel. It did not say overall or
each side so naturally I did each side so now the panel is too small.
How much floating to allow for expansion and contraction?

2. Does one apply the finish before glueing them up or after. There is
some finish sanding and routing edges to be done after.

TIA,
Genome

PS
Should I be starting a new thread with this or will this get lost in
the replies?

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 06:18:56 GMT, "Groggy" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Genome" wrote:
>> Greg,
>> I don't won't to get into a flame thing but "read the FAQ by David
>> Eisner" is about as helpful as macaroni and cheese.
>> Being new to the newsgroup world I have no idea where to find this.
>
>
>Genome,
>
>no problem, FAQ included below. The FAQ is "Frequently Asked Questions".
>
>I mentioned the FAQ without further explanation as you use Forte' Agent and
>munge your email address - which indicates some experience at least. Anyhow,
>any questions, fire away, I'll help if I can.
>
>Greg
>