Brazing cast iron

On Mar 1, 1:39=A0am, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
> > <[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> >> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> >> MAPP gas
> >> =A0 What tip?
> >> =A0 Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pip=
e?
>
> >> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> >> =A0 I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> >> these?
> >>http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000..=
.
> > =A0 Rots a Ruck brazing cast iron with a MAPP torch.
>
> I was thinking MAPP gas & Oxygen. =A0That would most assuredly do it, rig=
ht?
>
> Bill- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've used straight MAPP to silver solder (50/50 silver/copper
jeweler's solder) lugs onto bike frames, so it *should* work
on cast iron. Trick is to place a heat-reflecting surface
behind the work to get the most from the torch. Firebrick
or a tray of pea gravel works well. Silver/copper solder is
plenty strong, it's what's used to hold carbide chips on
saw blades and router bits.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:11:26 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mar 21, 9:42 am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On Feb 28, 4:11 pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>> >> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>> >> MAPP gas
>> >>   What tip?
>> >>   Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>
>> >> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>> >>   I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>> >> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000...
>>
>> >To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
>>
>> Did you remove the wooden pieces and toss it in the oven at 400
>> degrees to warm up the casting first, just before brazing?
>>
>
>I suppose I could try that one day when SWMBO is not home...
>
>I tried using an older BernzOmatic TS4000 that is good for MAPP and
>propane but does not have the newer 'swirl' tip. Could not get the
>bright red color needed on the thicker piece. I have googled but have
>been unable to find a source to buy just the screw on tips. Does
>anyone know where I can buy just the screw on swirl tip?
Won't work, from what I remember because the jet size is different,
The turbo provides more air, so requires a bigger jet. Just from
memory.

> ... I'll try brazing this cracked plane I have.

It's not worth the time and effort. There's a strong possibility that
the heat from the brazing will distort the body and it will be a
nightmare to get the plane to work properly. Salvage whatever parts
you can and toss the rest.

On Mar 21, 8:51=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 21, 6:53=A0pm, Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've used straight MAPP to silver solder (50/50 silver/copper
> > jeweler's solder) lugs onto bike frames, so it *should* work
> > on cast iron. =A0Trick is to place a heat-reflecting surface
> > behind the work to get the most from the torch. =A0Firebrick
> > or a tray of pea gravel works well. =A0Silver/copper solder is
> > plenty strong, it's what's used to hold carbide chips on
> > saw blades and router bits.
>
> I made an aluminum bike frame a long time ago - milled the tubes and
> had someone weld it up. =A0Rode the bike across the country back in the
> 80's. =A0I've always wanted to make a lugged steel frame. =A0What sort of
> bike did you make, and where did you get the tubes and lugs?

Cheap Ross 10 speed, seeing if I could pretty it up.
Bought the parts -- cable and bottle bosses, not lugs
(apologies) from a local frame builder. Worked fine,
didn't seem to hurt the frame.

On 2/28/2011 2:11 PM, Limp Arbor wrote:
> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> MAPP gas
> What tip?
> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>
> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> these?
> http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
>

Hey, I am not a welder, but I was a pipefitter and I worked with welders
on a daily basis. I have been involved in a few cast iron repairs and
Mapp gas is not the answer. You want an oxy-acetylene torch with a
brazing tip. And like the other poster said, you want the cast to be
hot (the oven thing won't do it). Use the torch to heat it up. A plane
is not that big and will heat up nicely with a torch.

Take a look at this site:

http://www.weldguru.com/braze-cast-iron.html

More info than you will ever need and what kind of rods to use.

Good luck!

--
Robert Allison
New Braunfels, TX

"Robert Allison" wrote:
>
> Hey, I am not a welder, but I was a pipefitter and I worked with
> welders on a daily basis.
-----------------------------------
Let's see,

Friday is payday.
Crap doesn't flow up hill,
Never bite your finger nails,

and last but not least,

Never eat the yellow snow.

Devil made me do it with cudos to Flip.

<G>

Lew

Limp Arbor wrote:
> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> MAPP gas
> What tip?
> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>
> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> these?
> http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
>


Tobin bronze and flux with oxy acetylene

On 2/28/2011 11:20 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Robert Allison" wrote:
>>
>> Hey, I am not a welder, but I was a pipefitter and I worked with
>> welders on a daily basis.
> -----------------------------------
> Let's see,
>
> Friday is payday.
> Crap doesn't flow up hill,
> Never bite your finger nails,
>
> and last but not least,
>
> Never eat the yellow snow.
>
> Devil made me do it with cudos to Flip.
>
> <G>
>
> Lew

Lew, you know how to tell the difference between a pipefitter and a plumber?

Stand them both up to their chests in a septic tank and swing a 2x4 at
their heads. The pipefitter will put up his hands and the plumber will
duck.


--
Robert Allison
New Braunfels, TX

Limp Arbor wrote:
> On Mar 21, 9:42 am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Feb 28, 4:11 pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>>>> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>>>> MAPP gas
>>>> What tip?
>>>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper
>>>> pipe?
>>
>>>> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>>>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>>>> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000...
>>
>>> To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
>>
>> Did you remove the wooden pieces and toss it in the oven at 400
>> degrees to warm up the casting first, just before brazing?
>>
>
> I suppose I could try that one day when SWMBO is not home...
>
> I tried using an older BernzOmatic TS4000 that is good for MAPP and
> propane but does not have the newer 'swirl' tip.


> Could not get the bright red color needed on the thicker piece.

A. charcoal

B. bellows or substitute

Mind you don't melt the iton :)


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Feb 28, 2:11=A0pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>

I have a nice old Depression era Stanley #4 that has a piece broken
out of the side. It has been repaired by riveting the broken piece
back in with a steel backing plate. I love the plane, it is filed
smooth, works well, and it means something that a previous owner cared
enough about it to go to a lot of trouble with the repair.

On Mar 1, 9:45=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ... I'll try brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> It's not worth the time and effort. There's a strong possibility that
> the heat from the brazing will distort the body and it will be a
> nightmare to get the plane to work properly. Salvage whatever parts
> you can and toss the rest.

A hotter torch lets you work faster, thus reduces warpage.

On Feb 28, 4:11=A0pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> MAPP gas
> =A0 What tip?
> =A0 Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>
> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> =A0 I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B00=
00...

To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 06:09:07 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I called BernzOmatiC yesterday and they said this tip will fit on my
>push button torch.
>http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LENOX-Torch-Tip-2CZL3?Pid=search
>
>I guess I'll swing by Grainger today and pick one up.

$10.49 isn't a bad price for a trial tool. Go for it.
You are today where your thoughts have brought you;
you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you.
-- James Lane Allen

On Mar 21, 6:53=A0pm, Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've used straight MAPP to silver solder (50/50 silver/copper
> jeweler's solder) lugs onto bike frames, so it *should* work
> on cast iron. =A0Trick is to place a heat-reflecting surface
> behind the work to get the most from the torch. =A0Firebrick
> or a tray of pea gravel works well. =A0Silver/copper solder is
> plenty strong, it's what's used to hold carbide chips on
> saw blades and router bits.

I made an aluminum bike frame a long time ago - milled the tubes and
had someone weld it up. Rode the bike across the country back in the
80's. I've always wanted to make a lugged steel frame. What sort of
bike did you make, and where did you get the tubes and lugs?

R

On Mar 21, 10:11=A0am, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 21, 9:42=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >On Feb 28, 4:11=A0pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> > >> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> > >> MAPP gas
> > >> =A0 What tip?
> > >> =A0 Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper p=
ipe?
>
> > >> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> > >> =A0 I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> > >> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/d=
p/B0000...
>
> > >To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
>
> > Did you remove the wooden pieces and toss it in the oven at 400
> > degrees to warm up the casting first, just before brazing?
>
> I suppose I could try that one day when SWMBO is not home...
>
> I tried using an older BernzOmatic TS4000 that is good for MAPP and
> propane but does not have the newer 'swirl' tip. =A0Could not get the
> bright red color needed on the thicker piece. =A0I have googled but have
> been unable to find a source to buy just the screw on tips. =A0Does
> anyone know where I can buy just the screw on swirl tip?

I called BernzOmatiC yesterday and they said this tip will fit on my
push button torch.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LENOX-Torch-Tip-2CZL3?Pid=3Dsearch

Looks like the BernzOmatiC and the Lenox torches are made by the same
company
http://www.bernzomatic.com/Portals/8/Resources/ProductImages/BZTG_TS4000T_0=
19040_lg.jpg
http://art4gis.com/gra/4NE81_AS01.JPG

I guess I'll swing by Grainger today and pick one up.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2011 00:45:50 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 06:51:16 -0800, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:06:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>>>>brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>>>
>>>>MAPP gas
>>>> What tip?
>>>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>>>
>>>>What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>>>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>>>
>>>>these?
>>>>http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
>>> Rots a Ruck brazing cast iron with a MAPP torch.
>>
>>Why, because of the quick heatsinking of the stuff? I've seen several
>>nicely brazed plane repairs, so I know it's doable. And MAPP will
>>easily get a small cracked section of a plane to red-hot temps. I
>>don't see the big deal, clare. Heatsinking might be a problem on a
>>thick tablesaur top, though. I think a second MAPP torch would fix
>>that if push came to shove.
>>
>>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas
>>"MAPP gas is also used in combustion with air for brazing and
>>soldering, where it has considerable advantages over competing propane
>>fuel due to its high combustion temperature of 2,020°C (3,670°F)."
>
>
>With a mapp/oxy torch it would be do-able, but I've attempted brazing
>with my turbo-torch on MAPP with much less than successful results.
>I just haul out the oxy-acetylene for most brazing jobs - and for
>finer stuff, haul it out to the hanger to the TIG torch.

OK, but what size object were you brazing on?

Planes such as the #10 usually crack in the cheek, so heatsinking is
minimal. Have you tried a cheek repair with the turbo mapp?

--
That is what learning is. You suddenly understand something
you've understood all your life, but in a new way.
-- Doris Lessing

To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You need to use MAPP with oxygen. That is enough to braze most things.
When you are talking about heating up something as large and heavy of a heat
sink, like a plane body, it will take a good portion of both, especially the
oxy.

You can braze lighter things with straight MAPP. It gets hot enough if the
workpiece is light enough. If you don't believe that, go talk to guys that
do air conditioning work, day after day.
--
Jim in NC

In article <41dad7ea-5fb4-4b41-ae65-
[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> > ... I'll try brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> It's not worth the time and effort. There's a strong possibility that
> the heat from the brazing will distort the body and it will be a
> nightmare to get the plane to work properly. Salvage whatever parts
> you can and toss the rest.

If he's never brazed anything before and likes to try new stuff then
brazing the plane is worthwile as an exercise--if it ends up
unrepairable he's no worse off and has learned a new skill. If it ends
up usable then he's ahead of the game.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 06:51:16 -0800, Larry Jaques
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:06:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
> >><[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> >>>brazing this cracked plane I have.
> >>>
> >>>MAPP gas
> >>> What tip?
> >>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
> >>>
> >>>What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> >>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
> >>>
> >>>these?
> >>>http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
> >> Rots a Ruck brazing cast iron with a MAPP torch.
> >
> >Why, because of the quick heatsinking of the stuff? I've seen several
> >nicely brazed plane repairs, so I know it's doable. And MAPP will
> >easily get a small cracked section of a plane to red-hot temps. I
> >don't see the big deal, clare. Heatsinking might be a problem on a
> >thick tablesaur top, though. I think a second MAPP torch would fix
> >that if push came to shove.
> >
> >From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas
> >"MAPP gas is also used in combustion with air for brazing and
> >soldering, where it has considerable advantages over competing propane
> >fuel due to its high combustion temperature of 2,020°C (3,670°F)."
>
>
> With a mapp/oxy torch it would be do-able, but I've attempted brazing
> with my turbo-torch on MAPP with much less than successful results.
> I just haul out the oxy-acetylene for most brazing jobs - and for
> finer stuff, haul it out to the hanger to the TIG torch.

Note that MAPP no longer exists in the market. The patent holder went
under and the patent has another 10 years or so to run before somebody
else can start making it. I believe the replacement is propylene, which
supposedly burns about 50 degrees cooler.

If you're looking for a MAPP torch and can't find one that's the reason.

On Mar 21, 9:42=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Feb 28, 4:11=A0pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> >> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> >> MAPP gas
> >> =A0 What tip?
> >> =A0 Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pip=
e?
>
> >> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> >> =A0 I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> >> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/=
B0000...
>
> >To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
>
> Did you remove the wooden pieces and toss it in the oven at 400
> degrees to warm up the casting first, just before brazing?
>

I suppose I could try that one day when SWMBO is not home...

I tried using an older BernzOmatic TS4000 that is good for MAPP and
propane but does not have the newer 'swirl' tip. Could not get the
bright red color needed on the thicker piece. I have googled but have
been unable to find a source to buy just the screw on tips. Does
anyone know where I can buy just the screw on swirl tip?

On Mar 21, 11:50=A0pm, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
> To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> You need to use MAPP with oxygen. =A0That is enough to braze most things.
> When you are talking about heating up something as large and heavy of a h=
eat
> sink, like a plane body, it will take a good portion of both, especially =
the
> oxy.
>
> You can braze lighter things with straight MAPP. =A0It gets hot enough if=
the
> workpiece is light enough. =A0If you don't believe that, go talk to guys =
that
> do air conditioning work, day after day.

Agreed. I was able to get the side piece that cracked off hot enough
for the brazing to stick. I could get the main body red by using a
propane torch on one side and the MAPP on the other, but not the
bright red color needed for brazing.

On Mar 1, 12:05=A0am, Robert Allison <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hey, I am not a welder, but I was a pipefitter and I worked with welders
> on a daily basis. =A0I have been involved in a few cast iron repairs and
> Mapp gas is not the answer. =A0You want an oxy-acetylene torch with a
> brazing tip. =A0And like the other poster said, you want the cast to be
> hot (the oven thing won't do it). =A0Use the torch to heat it up. =A0A pl=
ane
> is not that big and will heat up nicely with a torch.
>
> Take a look at this site:
>
> http://www.weldguru.com/braze-cast-iron.html
>
> More info than you will ever need and what kind of rods to use.
>
> Good luck!

Good link - I have a project where that info will come in handy.
Thanks for posting it.

R

On Feb 28, 4:11=A0pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> MAPP gas
> =A0 What tip?
> =A0 Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>
> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> =A0 I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B00=
00...

Success!

Used a MAPP Oxygen setup from Lowes.
BernzOmatiC OX2550
http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/009/140/122/trimmed/9140334_10754122_trimme=
d.jpg

Worked great. Got the cast iron bright red in less than a minute.
Being my first time it was a little messy but nothing a belt sander
couldn't take care of.

On Mar 21, 8:45=A0pm, "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Limp Arbor wrote:
> > On Mar 21, 9:42 am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
>
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> On Feb 28, 4:11 pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
> >>>> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> >>>> MAPP gas
> >>>> What tip?
> >>>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper
> >>>> pipe?
>
> >>>> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> >>>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> >>>> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/d=
p/B0000...
>
> >>> To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
>
> >> Did you remove the wooden pieces and toss it in the oven at 400
> >> degrees to warm up the casting first, just before brazing?
>
> > I suppose I could try that one day when SWMBO is not home...
>
> > I tried using an older BernzOmatic TS4000 that is good for MAPP and
> > propane but does not have the newer 'swirl' tip.
> > Could not get the bright red color needed on the thicker piece.
>
> A. charcoal
>
> B. bellows or substitute
>
> Mind you don't melt the iton =A0:)
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Weber kettle with shop vac plumbed in for air
source. Cowboy or Royal Oak hardwood charcoal
should give you a nice, clean reducing fire. You'll
at least get your money's worth in sparks. Not sure
if Kingsford asphalt / soot based briquettes are good
for smithing.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>> MAPP gas
>> What tip?
>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>
>> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>> these?
>> http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
> Rots a Ruck brazing cast iron with a MAPP torch.

I was thinking MAPP gas & Oxygen. That would most assuredly do it, right?

Bill

On 3/1/2011 9:30 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<41dad7ea-5fb4-4b41-ae65-
> [email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>>> ... I'll try brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>> It's not worth the time and effort. There's a strong possibility that
>> the heat from the brazing will distort the body and it will be a
>> nightmare to get the plane to work properly. Salvage whatever parts
>> you can and toss the rest.
>
> If he's never brazed anything before and likes to try new stuff then
> brazing the plane is worthwile as an exercise--if it ends up
> unrepairable he's no worse off and has learned a new skill. If it ends
> up usable then he's ahead of the game.
>
>

Yep. Cheap tuition!

On 3/21/2011 8:32 AM, Limp Arbor wrote:
> On Feb 28, 4:11 pm, Limp Arbor<[email protected]> wrote:
>> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>> MAPP gas
>> What tip?
>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>
>> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000...
>
> To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...

Did you trying mixing Oxygen with the MAPP gas?

Bill

Limp Arbor wrote:
> On Feb 28, 4:11 pm, Limp Arbor<[email protected]> wrote:
>> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>> MAPP gas
>> What tip?
>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>
>> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000...
>
> Success!
>
> Used a MAPP Oxygen setup from Lowes.
> BernzOmatiC OX2550
> http://imagethumbnails.milo.com/009/140/122/trimmed/9140334_10754122_trimmed.jpg
>
> Worked great. Got the cast iron bright red in less than a minute.
> Being my first time it was a little messy but nothing a belt sander
> couldn't take care of.
>

Congratulations! Sounds like a Win-Win-Win for you, the plane, and the
readers here. I might have tried a file before a belt sander, but
you're the one doing the work.

Bill

On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:06:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>>brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>>MAPP gas
>> What tip?
>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>
>>What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>>these?
>>http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
> Rots a Ruck brazing cast iron with a MAPP torch.

Why, because of the quick heatsinking of the stuff? I've seen several
nicely brazed plane repairs, so I know it's doable. And MAPP will
easily get a small cracked section of a plane to red-hot temps. I
don't see the big deal, clare. Heatsinking might be a problem on a
thick tablesaur top, though. I think a second MAPP torch would fix
that if push came to shove.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas
"MAPP gas is also used in combustion with air for brazing and
soldering, where it has considerable advantages over competing propane
fuel due to its high combustion temperature of 2,020°C (3,670°F)."

--
That is what learning is. You suddenly understand something
you've understood all your life, but in a new way.
-- Doris Lessing

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Feb 28, 4:11 pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
>> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>> MAPP gas
>>   What tip?
>>   Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>
>> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>>   I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000...
>
>To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...

Did you remove the wooden pieces and toss it in the oven at 400
degrees to warm up the casting first, just before brazing?

--
"I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded
professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who
encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I
learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy
as opposed to intentions."
-- Walter E. Williams

"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5f1f1cb9-2b53-49be-a08b-b64918da4214@r19g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 1, 9:45 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ... I'll try brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> It's not worth the time and effort. There's a strong possibility that
> the heat from the brazing will distort the body and it will be a
> nightmare to get the plane to work properly. Salvage whatever parts
> you can and toss the rest.

A hotter torch lets you work faster, thus reduces warpage.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

True. Also preheat the body, and post heat treat. I have heard a self
cleaning oven is a good makeshift unit to use for post heat and cool down.

--
Jim in NC

"Limp Arbor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:225b78d7-cbd6-4547-995e-17dbca11f48c@o21g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so
> I'll try
> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
> MAPP gas
> What tip?
> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat
> copper pipe?
>
> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
> these?
> http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
>

LA:

My recollection isn't bring up the name of the rod but I
used a
different gas source.

One thing that helped at the time was following professional
advice that getting the cast iron body hot before brazing
was
wise. You may try a little spell in the oven first to
accomplish
that. Someone on RCM would know on the rod.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:11:26 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mar 21, 9:42 am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:32:36 -0700 (PDT), Limp Arbor
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On Feb 28, 4:11 pm, Limp Arbor <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>> >> brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>
>> >> MAPP gas
>> >>   What tip?
>> >>   Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>
>> >> What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>> >>   I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>
>> >> these?http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000...
>>
>> >To all who said you can't braze with MAPP gas, you were right...
>>
>> Did you remove the wooden pieces and toss it in the oven at 400
>> degrees to warm up the casting first, just before brazing?
>>
>
>I suppose I could try that one day when SWMBO is not home...

Buy a toaster oven at the Goodwill store for $5. It'll handle up to a
#5, I believe.


>I tried using an older BernzOmatic TS4000 that is good for MAPP and
>propane but does not have the newer 'swirl' tip. Could not get the
>bright red color needed on the thicker piece. I have googled but have
>been unable to find a source to buy just the screw on tips. Does
>anyone know where I can buy just the screw on swirl tip?

I believe that's a torch design, not just a top for a generic torch.
Just pick up an oxy/acet kit from the local welding supply, HF, Griz,
Northern, or elsewhere.

http://tinyurl.com/4tek243
http://tinyurl.com/45d7447
http://tinyurl.com/2g29oby
http://tinyurl.com/4pu5ltq

--
"I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded
professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who
encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I
learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy
as opposed to intentions."
-- Walter E. Williams

On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 06:51:16 -0800, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:06:07 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>>>brazing this cracked plane I have.
>>>
>>>MAPP gas
>>> What tip?
>>> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>>>
>>>What kind of 'brazing' rods?
>>> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>>>
>>>these?
>>>http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
>> Rots a Ruck brazing cast iron with a MAPP torch.
>
>Why, because of the quick heatsinking of the stuff? I've seen several
>nicely brazed plane repairs, so I know it's doable. And MAPP will
>easily get a small cracked section of a plane to red-hot temps. I
>don't see the big deal, clare. Heatsinking might be a problem on a
>thick tablesaur top, though. I think a second MAPP torch would fix
>that if push came to shove.
>
>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas
>"MAPP gas is also used in combustion with air for brazing and
>soldering, where it has considerable advantages over competing propane
>fuel due to its high combustion temperature of 2,020°C (3,670°F)."


With a mapp/oxy torch it would be do-able, but I've attempted brazing
with my turbo-torch on MAPP with much less than successful results.
I just haul out the oxy-acetylene for most brazing jobs - and for
finer stuff, haul it out to the hanger to the TIG torch.

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 12:11:33 -0800 (PST), Limp Arbor
<[email protected]> wrote:

>OK so I'm convinced that using JB weld won't hold up so I'll try
>brazing this cracked plane I have.
>
>MAPP gas
> What tip?
> Can I just use the same tip I use with propane to sweat copper pipe?
>
>What kind of 'brazing' rods?
> I was surprised that HF didn't carry them
>
>these?
>http://www.amazon.com/Bernzomatic-Nickel-Silver-Brazing-Rods/dp/B0000CBJGM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1298923442&sr=8-8
Rots a Ruck brazing cast iron with a MAPP torch.