"Leon" wrote
>
> I once had problems with Timberwolf and later learned that it was the saw,
> regardless of setup. With that particular saw cheap blades tracked fine,
> the more expensive Timberwold would not track properly. I got rid of the
> saw and bought a Laguna and now it does not matter how cheap the blade is
> it tracks great including the Timberwolfs.
>
That is immpeccable logic Leon. Not always an option, but a very appealling
solution.
I wonder if we can take this story and convert it into a contemporary
woodworker's fable. We could tell this story each time us manly men need to
justify a new tool purchase to the girly wife.
"Leon" wrote
>
> Yes, it is not the answer that we want to hear but for me the simple facts
> are that if you want to have a band saw that is as predictable as a good
> table saw you have to buy a top cuality product. IMHO most all the major
> brand saws that fall below the $2k price are going to have some quirk that
> will be ever persistant. With few exceptions and with the exception of a
> few older Delta's that I have seen it is not too much unlike trying to get
> a bench top TS to perform like a cabinet saw straight out of the box. I
> totally believe that a BS that is ridged enough and has high quality
> wheels, tires, and bearings you will not have to worry about what kind of
> blade you put on it. Guide location is not so much an issue, my blades
> tend to track just fine regardless of what the height setting on the upper
> and lower guides are although they do help in keeping the blade centered
> on the wheels when cutting thick stock.
>
>
Methinks that is the kernel of a good marketing campaign. "Our bandsaws
work good no matter how crappy the blades are!"
I see a before the fact versus after the fact dynamic occuring here. Buy a
good enough bandsaw, the blade choices don't matter as much. I don't see
this logic applying as much to other kinds of saws. That long, flexible
blade requires a certain amount of stabilization. As you pointed out, Laguna
takes this concern seriously. Stabilization of circular saw blades are not
as difficult.
>
> It is probably covered in the "buy quality and only cry once" statement.
> What I finally realized 3 years ago is that band saws that need to always
> be tweaked, cause us to cry a lot, we just don't want to admit it.
> Unfortunately the BS is one machine that we want to perform better than
> the quality we want to pay for.
>
Again, the old trueisms of getting what you pay for and quality counts apply
here.
I am certain that a lot of people don't use their bandsaws that much. So
they put up with the problems. I bet a Laguna would pay for itself rapidly
when cutting veneer from exotic woods. Or resawing in general.
On Jan 12, 11:08=A0am, Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
> Teamcasa wrote:
> > I decided to slap on a new bandsaw blade and reached for the
> > WoodSlicer I picked up at a recent show. =A0It is a horrible blade in m=
y
> > opinion.
>
> > Horrible in the sense that the blade drift is more than =BD=94 and
> > required maxing out my fence adjustment to compensate. =A0I=92m putting
> > back on the Lennox.
>
> > Dave
>
> Perhaps you're unaware that blade lead isn't just a function of the
> blade? =A0You've said nothing about what kind of saw you have and what
> other adjustments you've made, if any. =A0Also, the WoodSlicer is made of
> very hard steel and does not stretch as much as other blades, so it's
> likely to be less forgiving of differences in machine adjustment.
>
> --
> Free bad advice available here.
> To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
My saw is a Jet16" and I understand the adjustments very well. After
I put a new Lenox blade in, the drift all but disappeared. <1/8=94. The
previous blade, (a now dull) =BE=94 3tpi custom did not drift at all.
Dave
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
> Same story with my MiniMax; both are excellent machines. I remember you
> talking about deciding between the Laguna and MiniMax, and I think one of
> the reasons (among others) that you chose the Laguna was because of the
> very nice ceramic blade guides. A buddy of mine has those on his older
> LT-16, and they are very nice indeed. I wouldn't mind having a set for my
> MiniMax, but to tell you the truth I don't really think I need them. The
> wheel alignment on this machine is such a thing of beauty and blades track
> so well that the guide bearings hardly ever kick in. And you can tension
> the living daylights out of a blade (not that it's really necessary in
> most situations) without affecting the alignment because the frame is so
> stiff and sturdy.
Yes! I recall the MiniMax rep indicating that you really don't need the
guides at all except in extreme cases. I feel about the samwe way with the
Laguna. And yes you are right, the Laguna guides were what turned me
towards the Laguna although now I realize that with a top notch saw like
that which you and I have, the guides are not quite so important, but I
still really like the simplicity and quietness of the guides.
>
> Speaking of which, if you're having tracking problems on your bandsaw you
> should try that very experiment. Install a blade using light to moderate
> tension so that it rides the crown of the tires and tracks reasonably well
> (*without* the assistance of the guide bearings), then while the machine
> is running begin adding tension to the blade. Does it start to wander?
> If so, chances are good that the frame is flexing and the wheels are going
> out of alignment as a result. Now go ask your wife for the funding to buy
> a new bandsaw. :-)
That is probably a good assumtion. That miught also explain why Timberwolf
and some other blade makers suggest not tensioning very much at all, just
enough to eleminate the flutter.
Call Highland. I resawed oak this weekend with my Delta 14", a
Woodslicer with no compensation and it worked ok. Some might call it
great but I have never seen in person anyone else resaw. There is no
guarantee that every blade is perfect but maybe they are aware of some
possible issue with your saw.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:32:00 -0800 (PST), Teamcasa <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I decided to slap on a new bandsaw blade and reached for the
>WoodSlicer I picked up at a recent show. It is a horrible blade in my
>opinion.
>
>Horrible in the sense that the blade drift is more than ½ and
>required maxing out my fence adjustment to compensate. Im putting
>back on the Lennox.
>
>Dave
Teamcasa wrote:
> I decided to slap on a new bandsaw blade and reached for the
> WoodSlicer I picked up at a recent show. It is a horrible blade in my
> opinion.
>
> Horrible in the sense that the blade drift is more than ½ and
> required maxing out my fence adjustment to compensate. Im putting
> back on the Lennox.
>
> Dave
Perhaps you're unaware that blade lead isn't just a function of the
blade? You've said nothing about what kind of saw you have and what
other adjustments you've made, if any. Also, the WoodSlicer is made of
very hard steel and does not stretch as much as other blades, so it's
likely to be less forgiving of differences in machine adjustment.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I decided to slap on a new bandsaw blade and reached for the
WoodSlicer I picked up at a recent show. It is a horrible blade in my
opinion.
Horrible in the sense that the blade drift is more than ½ and
required maxing out my fence adjustment to compensate. Im putting
back on the Lennox.
Dave
I once had problems with Timberwolf and later learned that it was the saw,
regardless of setup. With that particular saw cheap blades tracked fine,
the more expensive Timberwold would not track properly. I got rid of the
saw and bought a Laguna and now it does not matter how cheap the blade is it
tracks great including the Timberwolfs.
peaking of which, if you're having tracking problems on your bandsaw
you should try that very experiment. Install a blade using light to
moderate tension so that it rides the crown of the tires and tracks
reasonably well (*without* the assistance of the guide bearings),
then
while the machine is running begin adding tension to the blade. Does
it
start to wander? If so, chances are good that the frame is flexing
and
the wheels are going out of alignment as a result. Now go ask your
wife
for the funding to buy a new bandsaw. :-)
NOW, that's the sort of suggestion I appreciate on this list. Thank
you. A good thing to try to gauge the behavior of your BS.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote
>>
>> I once had problems with Timberwolf and later learned that it was the
>> saw, regardless of setup. With that particular saw cheap blades tracked
>> fine, the more expensive Timberwold would not track properly. I got rid
>> of the saw and bought a Laguna and now it does not matter how cheap the
>> blade is it tracks great including the Timberwolfs.
>>
> That is immpeccable logic Leon. Not always an option, but a very
> appealling solution.
Yes, it is not the answer that we want to hear but for me the simple facts
are that if you want to have a band saw that is as predictable as a good
table saw you have to buy a top cuality product. IMHO most all the major
brand saws that fall below the $2k price are going to have some quirk that
will be ever persistant. With few exceptions and with the exception of a
few older Delta's that I have seen it is not too much unlike trying to get a
bench top TS to perform like a cabinet saw straight out of the box. I
totally believe that a BS that is ridged enough and has high quality wheels,
tires, and bearings you will not have to worry about what kind of blade you
put on it. Guide location is not so much an issue, my blades tend to track
just fine regardless of what the height setting on the upper and lower
guides are although they do help in keeping the blade centered on the wheels
when cutting thick stock.
>
> I wonder if we can take this story and convert it into a contemporary
> woodworker's fable. We could tell this story each time us manly men need
> to justify a new tool purchase to the girly wife.
It is probably covered in the "buy quality and only cry once" statement.
What I finally realized 3 years ago is that band saws that need to always be
tweaked, cause us to cry a lot, we just don't want to admit it.
Unfortunately the BS is one machine that we want to perform better than the
quality we want to pay for.
Leon wrote:
> "Teamcasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> I decided to slap on a new bandsaw blade and reached for the
> WoodSlicer I picked up at a recent show. It is a horrible blade in my
> opinion.
>
> Horrible in the sense that the blade drift is more than ½ and
> required maxing out my fence adjustment to compensate. Im putting
> back on the Lennox.
>
> Dave
>
>
> I once had problems with Timberwolf and later learned that it was the saw,
> regardless of setup. With that particular saw cheap blades tracked fine,
> the more expensive Timberwold would not track properly. I got rid of the
> saw and bought a Laguna and now it does not matter how cheap the blade is it
> tracks great including the Timberwolfs.
Same story with my MiniMax; both are excellent machines. I remember you
talking about deciding between the Laguna and MiniMax, and I think one
of the reasons (among others) that you chose the Laguna was because of
the very nice ceramic blade guides. A buddy of mine has those on his
older LT-16, and they are very nice indeed. I wouldn't mind having a
set for my MiniMax, but to tell you the truth I don't really think I
need them. The wheel alignment on this machine is such a thing of
beauty and blades track so well that the guide bearings hardly ever kick
in. And you can tension the living daylights out of a blade (not that
it's really necessary in most situations) without affecting the
alignment because the frame is so stiff and sturdy.
Speaking of which, if you're having tracking problems on your bandsaw
you should try that very experiment. Install a blade using light to
moderate tension so that it rides the crown of the tires and tracks
reasonably well (*without* the assistance of the guide bearings), then
while the machine is running begin adding tension to the blade. Does it
start to wander? If so, chances are good that the frame is flexing and
the wheels are going out of alignment as a result. Now go ask your wife
for the funding to buy a new bandsaw. :-)
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:32:00 -0800 (PST), Teamcasa <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I decided to slap on a new bandsaw blade and reached for the
>WoodSlicer I picked up at a recent show. It is a horrible blade in my
>opinion.
>
>Horrible in the sense that the blade drift is more than ½ and
>required maxing out my fence adjustment to compensate. Im putting
>back on the Lennox.
>
>Dave
There's an interesting article from Fine Woodworking in the Nov/Dec
2004 issue. Says that drift can be *eliminated* by adjusting the tilt
of the upper wheel so that the blade is centered. Among several other
tips that contradict conventional wisdom on setting up a bandsaw.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011173066.pdf
I have had good results following the advice in that article. YMMV
>> Jim
"Teamcasa" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I decided to slap on a new bandsaw blade and reached for the
WoodSlicer I picked up at a recent show. It is a horrible blade in my
opinion.
Horrible in the sense that the blade drift is more than ½ and
required maxing out my fence adjustment to compensate. Im putting
back on the Lennox.
Dave
*********************************************
Most of us that have used them have not found that to be true. Very good
blade, IMO. Take the time to check the setup of your saw again. Especially
the guides.
Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> "Leon" wrote
>>
>> Yes, it is not the answer that we want to hear but for me the simple
>> facts are that if you want to have a band saw that is as predictable as a
>> good
>> table saw you have to buy a top cuality product. IMHO most all the major
>> brand saws that fall below the $2k price are going to have some quirk
>> that
>> will be ever persistant. With few exceptions and with the exception of a
>> few older Delta's that I have seen it is not too much unlike trying to
>> get
>> a bench top TS to perform like a cabinet saw straight out of the box. I
>> totally believe that a BS that is ridged enough and has high quality
>> wheels, tires, and bearings you will not have to worry about what kind of
>> blade you put on it. Guide location is not so much an issue, my blades
>> tend to track just fine regardless of what the height setting on the
>> upper and lower guides are although they do help in keeping the blade
>> centered on the wheels when cutting thick stock.
>>
>>
> Methinks that is the kernel of a good marketing campaign. "Our bandsaws
> work good no matter how crappy the blades are!"
>
Only downside to that is it will encourage some blade manufacturer to come
up with the absolute minimum compliance blade. Then, after a few 6 sigma
and design to cost projects will fall below the level of crap that even
*that* bandsaw can use.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough