Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
for cutting.
Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool track
saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods of use.
The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
around.
Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table saw
and with the added benefit of portability.
https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
For those of you in California this may not be a good option, apparently
it causes cancer in your state. I can't wait for the warning labels
that caution that the item could burn and cause forest fires. ;~)
https://www.kregtool.com/tool-specs/warnings/proposition-65-a2-w.aspx
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 8:53:17 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> We all know guys who's only conversations are when they're complaining=20
> about something... heck, we have that type in here.
I do a good job staying away from those folks and their attitudes, but some=
times it gets me. I have three large jobs going on now, two pretty complex=
. Actually doing some structure repair and design by leveling an all wood =
building on one of them. City codes, modern installation techniques and ma=
terials, and short delivery times make both a challenge.
I don't have time for idiocy, and have a pretty small tolerance for it. Mo=
st of my own guys have been around me for years and know what I want, know =
when to talk to me, and know when to leave me alone. So when resolving a st=
ructural issue to my satisfaction and coming up with a detail for construct=
ion, it is more than annoying to have some moron come share their "knowledg=
e" with me. Those guys don't work for me, but are on the job because the o=
wner wanted to them. Silly as it may sound, I am not not used to, nor do I=
invite conversation on the job. And when it is someone that is not on my =
team, I would prefer that they keep to themselves.
I have a nasty, profane and smart mouth, I today I able to get those two me=
atheads to understand I don't care about them, their opinions, or how they =
feel about their day. I was really surprised and go a chuckle out of the r=
esult all day; they went to their boss and told them I was mean and rude. =
Guys that age whining... what a world.
Robert
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 3:44:42 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 9:29:42 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> > On 2/3/19 3:14 PM, Leon wrote:
>=20
> > > Plastic is not so bad.=C2=A0 My Festool drill is mostly some kind of =
plastic=20
> > > and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like to adm=
it.=20
> > > =C2=A0As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are all=
=20
> > > plastic.=C2=A0 I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than pla=
stic.=C2=A0 I=20
> > > make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
>=20
> I still have the first heavy duty circular saw I bought for job use aroun=
d 1976. It has an aluminum shoe and blade guard, and the height adjustment=
is metal. The saw motor case, the handle, the adjustment knobs, the trigg=
er, and all the connectors and assembly points are plastic. That saw has b=
een rebuilt 4 or 5 times (new bearings, brushes, lube, a couple of switches=
, several cords) after about 15 years of heavy use. Plastic parts never fa=
iled. Same with my Milwaukee hole shooter, purchased in '75. Both still w=
ork, both have fallen off scaffolds, fallen off ladders, been thrown into t=
he back of trucks with other equipment and all the other crap that happens =
to job site tools with big crews. No cracks, still waterproof, and the pla=
stic still holds the screws like it did when it was new. Go figure.
> >=20
> > Anyone who's still complaining about "plastic" is living stuck in the 5=
0s.
> > Modern plastics are stronger and more durable than metal counterparts,=
=20
> > given the same or less weight/mass. Glass reinforced polymers are=20
> > ridiculously strong and heat resistant.
>=20
> Absolutely.
>=20
> >=20
> > These are the same guys who still complain about "OSB" but haven't ever=
=20
> > used any modern resin/wax impregnated composite fiber sheets goods.=20
> > They used "OSB" 40 years ago and that experience informs their opinions=
,=20
> > today.
>=20
> Guess I am replying because for the last couple of weeks I have working a=
round a couple of old hard heads that know everything, have seen everything=
, done everything, and feel like there isn't much for them to learn. They =
have an opinion on everything and it isn't positive unless they are talking=
about "the way it use to be". No matter that coming up on 40 years I have=
had my own business longer than they have been in the trades, no matter th=
at I am about 10 years older than them. In their 50s, they seem to "rememb=
er" an awful lot of things that were happening on site in the 50s and 60s.
>=20
> Your trigger? When you mentioned OSB. There is a manufactured sheet goo=
ds product for just about every application. It is rainy season here in sou=
th Texas, and I was on the phone looking for water resistant OSB for roof p=
atching on a current project. I was dumbfounded... one of the cavemen actu=
ally came to me with a long face and told me he couldn't work with OSB as h=
e "didn't trust it". He very seriously told me of some incident that happe=
ned 20 years ago when it was wet for a few days, and scarred him forever.
>=20
> Thankfully, they are not on my crew, but on the crew of a contractor budd=
y of mine. I will be glad when I am away from those guys. I readily embra=
ce today's materials, tools and procedures. Some work better than others, =
but I wouldn't go back to swinging a hammer all day (literally), hand sandi=
ng (who could afford a "Speed Bloc"?), yesterday's adhesives, or corded onl=
y tools.
>=20
> I am just realizing how much I can't stand those block headed morons...
>=20
Let it go. They're taken up space your head while odds are that they aren't=
thinking
about you at all.
Don't waste any more energy on them. They don't matter.
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 5:40:40 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/6/2019 2:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019
> at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
> >>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
> table
> >>>> for cutting.
> >>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
> >>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
> track
> >>>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods
> of use.
> >>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
> >>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
> >>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
> >>>> around.
> >>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be
> $400.00.
> >>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
> >>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
> >>>>
> >>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a
> table saw
> >>>> and with the added benefit of portability.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
> >>>
> >>
> >> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
> >> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean
> cut.
> >> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
> >> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
> >>
> >> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
> >> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
> >> saw will deliver all you need.
> >>
> >> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
> >> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
> >> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
> >> your needs.
> >
> > You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm
> still
> > having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
> > a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
> > it sounds like it is. ;-)
> Not a problem, I would be asking the same questions.
>
> "Remember" the Festool MFT and the NEW Kreg track saw and "table" make
> things easier for all aspects of cutting small parts.
>
>
> >
> > How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
>
>
> The MFT table allows you to raise and lock in an angle over the work.
> The work sits against an adjustable fence. That fence is set at 90 to
> the track or at an angle to the track. If necessary you can shorten the
> length of a board 1/64". This works similar to a RAS except instead of
> changing the boom angle you adjust the fence angle.
>
> Go here and scroll through the picture examples of the saw and table.
>
> https://www.festoolusa.com/products/semi-stationary-work/multifunction-table/495315---mft3
>
>
> >
> > What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
> > and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
> The Festool TS-75 will cut to a depth
> of 3" at 90 degrees and 2.125" at 45 degrees.
>
> On the current project I needed to cut at a 7 degree angle on two pieces
> of same sized 3/4" thick pieces of MDO. I stacked the two pieces,
> clamped them together laid the track along the line to be cut, and made
> the cut.
>
> >
> > How narrow of a board can you rip?
> With a little creative setting up, probably 1/2" or so. You place same
> thickness wider boards behind the narrow piece to support the track.
>
>
> >
> > Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
> Absolutely
>
>
> >
> > Can you joint an edge?
> Absolutely and I do this when I buy S2S material.
>
> (I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
> > my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
> > works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
> > to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
> > for the seat didn't work out as well.)
> >
> You do need to add the appropriate length track to accomplish this. I
> have 3 track lengths. When put together the two longer ones will rip an
> 8' long piece of plywood.
Thanks. Here's a real life example that I ran into last night:
Picture my table saw with no fence installed and the blade lowered below
the table. That's my typically set up, since I often use the TS as an extra
work surface (small shop).
I needed a piece of 1/4" plywood cut to 9" x 12". I had a 24" x 24" piece.
I slapped the fence on the TS, raised the blade, made one cut. Moved the fence,
made the second cut. Lowered the blade and hung the fence back on the wall.
2 minutes tops and I'm back to where I started.
How would you accomplish that same task with the track saw?
(Yes, I probably could have made 3 cuts with my miter saw, but that takes
more set-up (measuring, etc.) and makes more of a mess. Let's just compare
TS to track-saw for this task.)
On 2/2/2019 11:30 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 10:54:39 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
>> for cutting.
>
> Yes, I "saw" that. The price tag didn't look all that great,
> considering the amount of plastic on the thing.
>
Well I was going to argue the point. LOL. I paid $387.00 for my
Festool TS-75 track saw in 2009. I had to look it up.
But today TS-75 costs $660. and the MDT/3 table that will guide angle
cuts is $720. The Kreg set up is $899. with extra's like the dolly like
set up. The Festool set up is about 50% more expensive.
If I were a hobbyist I'd probably give the Kreg set up a close look.
Plastic is not so bad. My Festool drill is mostly some kind of plastic
and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like to admit.
As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are all
plastic. I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than plastic. I
make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 6:31:13 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 3:44:42 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
:
> > On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 9:29:42 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> > > On 2/3/19 3:14 PM, Leon wrote:
> >=20
> > > > Plastic is not so bad.=C2=A0 My Festool drill is mostly some kind o=
f plastic=20
> > > > and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like to a=
dmit.=20
> > > > =C2=A0As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are a=
ll=20
> > > > plastic.=C2=A0 I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than p=
lastic.=C2=A0 I=20
> > > > make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
> >=20
> > I still have the first heavy duty circular saw I bought for job use aro=
und 1976. It has an aluminum shoe and blade guard, and the height adjustme=
nt is metal. The saw motor case, the handle, the adjustment knobs, the tri=
gger, and all the connectors and assembly points are plastic. That saw has=
been rebuilt 4 or 5 times (new bearings, brushes, lube, a couple of switch=
es, several cords) after about 15 years of heavy use. Plastic parts never =
failed. Same with my Milwaukee hole shooter, purchased in '75. Both still=
work, both have fallen off scaffolds, fallen off ladders, been thrown into=
the back of trucks with other equipment and all the other crap that happen=
s to job site tools with big crews. No cracks, still waterproof, and the p=
lastic still holds the screws like it did when it was new. Go figure.
> > >=20
> > > Anyone who's still complaining about "plastic" is living stuck in the=
50s.
> > > Modern plastics are stronger and more durable than metal counterparts=
,=20
> > > given the same or less weight/mass. Glass reinforced polymers are=20
> > > ridiculously strong and heat resistant.
> >=20
> > Absolutely.
> >=20
> > >=20
> > > These are the same guys who still complain about "OSB" but haven't ev=
er=20
> > > used any modern resin/wax impregnated composite fiber sheets goods.=
=20
> > > They used "OSB" 40 years ago and that experience informs their opinio=
ns,=20
> > > today.
> >=20
> > Guess I am replying because for the last couple of weeks I have working=
around a couple of old hard heads that know everything, have seen everythi=
ng, done everything, and feel like there isn't much for them to learn. The=
y have an opinion on everything and it isn't positive unless they are talki=
ng about "the way it use to be". No matter that coming up on 40 years I ha=
ve had my own business longer than they have been in the trades, no matter =
that I am about 10 years older than them. In their 50s, they seem to "reme=
mber" an awful lot of things that were happening on site in the 50s and 60s=
.
> >=20
> > Your trigger? When you mentioned OSB. There is a manufactured sheet g=
oods product for just about every application. It is rainy season here in s=
outh Texas, and I was on the phone looking for water resistant OSB for roof=
patching on a current project. I was dumbfounded... one of the cavemen ac=
tually came to me with a long face and told me he couldn't work with OSB as=
he "didn't trust it". He very seriously told me of some incident that hap=
pened 20 years ago when it was wet for a few days, and scarred him forever.
> >=20
> > Thankfully, they are not on my crew, but on the crew of a contractor bu=
ddy of mine. I will be glad when I am away from those guys. I readily emb=
race today's materials, tools and procedures. Some work better than others=
, but I wouldn't go back to swinging a hammer all day (literally), hand san=
ding (who could afford a "Speed Bloc"?), yesterday's adhesives, or corded o=
nly tools.
> >=20
> > I am just realizing how much I can't stand those block headed morons...
> >=20
>=20
> Let it go. They're taken up space your head while odds are that they aren=
't thinking
> about you at all.
*in your head
>=20
> Don't waste any more energy on them. They don't matter.
On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 12:19:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/7/19 10:58 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 5:40:40 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 2/6/2019 2:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019
> >> at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> >> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> >>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> >>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
> >> >>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
> >> table
> >> >>>> for cutting.
> >> >>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
> >> >>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
> >> track
> >> >>>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods
> >> of use.
> >> >>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
> >> >>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
> >> >>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
> >> >>>> around.
> >> >>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be
> >> $400.00.
> >> >>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
> >> >>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a
> >> table saw
> >> >>>> and with the added benefit of portability.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
> >> >> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean
> >> cut.
> >> >> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
> >> >> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
> >> >>
> >> >> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
> >> >> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
> >> >> saw will deliver all you need.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
> >> >> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
> >> >> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
> >> >> your needs.
> >> >
> >> > You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm
> >> still
> >> > having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
> >> > a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
> >> > it sounds like it is. ;-)
> >> Not a problem, I would be asking the same questions.
> >>
> >> "Remember" the Festool MFT and the NEW Kreg track saw and "table" make
> >> things easier for all aspects of cutting small parts.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
> >>
> >>
> >> The MFT table allows you to raise and lock in an angle over the work.
> >> The work sits against an adjustable fence. That fence is set at 90 to
> >> the track or at an angle to the track. If necessary you can shorten the
> >> length of a board 1/64". This works similar to a RAS except instead of
> >> changing the boom angle you adjust the fence angle.
> >>
> >> Go here and scroll through the picture examples of the saw and table.
> >>
> >> https://www.festoolusa.com/products/semi-stationary-work/multifunction-table/495315---mft3
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
> >> > and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
> >> The Festool TS-75 will cut to a depth
> >> of 3" at 90 degrees and 2.125" at 45 degrees.
> >>
> >> On the current project I needed to cut at a 7 degree angle on two pieces
> >> of same sized 3/4" thick pieces of MDO. I stacked the two pieces,
> >> clamped them together laid the track along the line to be cut, and made
> >> the cut.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > How narrow of a board can you rip?
> >> With a little creative setting up, probably 1/2" or so. You place same
> >> thickness wider boards behind the narrow piece to support the track.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
> >> Absolutely
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Can you joint an edge?
> >> Absolutely and I do this when I buy S2S material.
> >>
> >> (I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
> >> > my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
> >> > works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
> >> > to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
> >> > for the seat didn't work out as well.)
> >> >
> >> You do need to add the appropriate length track to accomplish this. I
> >> have 3 track lengths. When put together the two longer ones will rip an
> >> 8' long piece of plywood.
> >
> > Thanks. Here's a real life example that I ran into last night:
> >
> > Picture my table saw with no fence installed and the blade lowered below
> > the table. That's my typically set up, since I often use the TS as an extra
> > work surface (small shop).
> >
> > I needed a piece of 1/4" plywood cut to 9" x 12". I had a 24" x 24" piece.
> >
> > I slapped the fence on the TS, raised the blade, made one cut. Moved the fence,
> > made the second cut. Lowered the blade and hung the fence back on the wall.
> > 2 minutes tops and I'm back to where I started.
> >
> > How would you accomplish that same task with the track saw?
> >
> > (Yes, I probably could have made 3 cuts with my miter saw, but that takes
> > more set-up (measuring, etc.) and makes more of a mess. Let's just compare
> > TS to track-saw for this task.)
> >
>
> For that, yes, quicker on the TS.
> But let's add a couple factors.
> 1. Let's say, you need the same from a full sheet of 3/4" ply.
> It's always soooo much fun to cross cut full sheets on a tablesaw in a
> small shop, right?
> 2. Let's say you need to do the same thing, on a job site.
#1 means that I should have both. Then I can stand outside my shop and
look at all the nice tools that I can't use because there's only room
for the tools. ;-)
A full sheet in my shop would essentially be the shop.
>
> Generally, it's easier to move whatever is smaller across whatever is
> bigger.
> In your case, it's easier to move a 24"x24" piece across a tablesaw.
> In the case of a full sheet, it's easier to move the tool across the
> piece.
But that's not happening in my shop. So I guess it's a track saw for the
garage and a TS for the shop. SWMBO will be so pleased. ;-)
>
> Same with a router vs. router table.
Which brings up the other issue. My router table is built into my table
saw. If I replaced the TS with a track saw set-up, I'd need to built a
dedicated router table. Now I'm back to the space issue.
Can a router table be integrated into a track saw table like it can
be with a TS?
>
> As for a track saw. There are a couple guys who are prominent on social
> media who build a LOT of really nice built ins and that's pretty much
> all they do.
> Both of these guys have recently blogged that they are doing it all
> on-site with their track saws and don't use their table saws at all.
>
> Most track saw makers also make router guides that fit their tracks, so
> it makes it just as easy to switch to the router for dados and rabbets
> on-site.
>
How are small pieces dealt with on a job site? Do you guys haul around
bench top router tables?
On 2/6/2019 2:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
>>>> for cutting.
>>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool track
>>>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods of use.
>>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>>>> around.
>>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
>>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>>>
>>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table saw
>>>> and with the added benefit of portability.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>>>
>>>
>>> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
>>>
>>
>> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
>> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean cut.
>> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
>> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
>>
>> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
>> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
>> saw will deliver all you need.
>>
>> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
>> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
>> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
>> your needs.
>
> You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm still
> having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
> a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
> it sounds like it is. ;-)
Not a problem, I would be asking the same questions.
"Remember" the Festool MFT and the NEW Kreg track saw and "table" make
things easier for all aspects of cutting small parts.
>
> How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
The MFT table allows you to raise and lock in an angle over the work.
The work sits against an adjustable fence. That fence is set at 90 to
the track or at an angle to the track. If necessary you can shorten the
length of a board 1/64". This works similar to a RAS except instead of
changing the boom angle you adjust the fence angle.
Go here and scroll through the picture examples of the saw and table.
https://www.festoolusa.com/products/semi-stationary-work/multifunction-table/495315---mft3
>
> What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
> and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
The Festool TS-75 will cut to a depth
of 3" at 90 degrees and 2.125" at 45 degrees.
On the current project I needed to cut at a 7 degree angle on two pieces
of same sized 3/4" thick pieces of MDO. I stacked the two pieces,
clamped them together laid the track along the line to be cut, and made
the cut.
>
> How narrow of a board can you rip?
With a little creative setting up, probably 1/2" or so. You place same
thickness wider boards behind the narrow piece to support the track.
>
> Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
Absolutely
>
> Can you joint an edge?
Absolutely and I do this when I buy S2S material.
(I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
> my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
> works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
> to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
> for the seat didn't work out as well.)
>
You do need to add the appropriate length track to accomplish this. I
have 3 track lengths. When put together the two longer ones will rip an
8' long piece of plywood.
On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 9:29:42 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/3/19 3:14 PM, Leon wrote:
> > Plastic is not so bad.=C2=A0 My Festool drill is mostly some kind of pl=
astic=20
> > and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like to admit=
.=20
> > =C2=A0As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are all=
=20
> > plastic.=C2=A0 I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than plast=
ic.=C2=A0 I=20
> > make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
I still have the first heavy duty circular saw I bought for job use around =
1976. It has an aluminum shoe and blade guard, and the height adjustment i=
s metal. The saw motor case, the handle, the adjustment knobs, the trigger=
, and all the connectors and assembly points are plastic. That saw has bee=
n rebuilt 4 or 5 times (new bearings, brushes, lube, a couple of switches, =
several cords) after about 15 years of heavy use. Plastic parts never fail=
ed. Same with my Milwaukee hole shooter, purchased in '75. Both still wor=
k, both have fallen off scaffolds, fallen off ladders, been thrown into the=
back of trucks with other equipment and all the other crap that happens to=
job site tools with big crews. No cracks, still waterproof, and the plast=
ic still holds the screws like it did when it was new. Go figure.
>=20
> Anyone who's still complaining about "plastic" is living stuck in the 50s=
.
> Modern plastics are stronger and more durable than metal counterparts,=20
> given the same or less weight/mass. Glass reinforced polymers are=20
> ridiculously strong and heat resistant.
Absolutely.
>=20
> These are the same guys who still complain about "OSB" but haven't ever=
=20
> used any modern resin/wax impregnated composite fiber sheets goods.=20
> They used "OSB" 40 years ago and that experience informs their opinions,=
=20
> today.
Guess I am replying because for the last couple of weeks I have working aro=
und a couple of old hard heads that know everything, have seen everything, =
done everything, and feel like there isn't much for them to learn. They ha=
ve an opinion on everything and it isn't positive unless they are talking a=
bout "the way it use to be". No matter that coming up on 40 years I have h=
ad my own business longer than they have been in the trades, no matter that=
I am about 10 years older than them. In their 50s, they seem to "remember=
" an awful lot of things that were happening on site in the 50s and 60s.
Your trigger? When you mentioned OSB. There is a manufactured sheet goods=
product for just about every application. It is rainy season here in south=
Texas, and I was on the phone looking for water resistant OSB for roof pat=
ching on a current project. I was dumbfounded... one of the cavemen actual=
ly came to me with a long face and told me he couldn't work with OSB as he =
"didn't trust it". He very seriously told me of some incident that happene=
d 20 years ago when it was wet for a few days, and scarred him forever.
Thankfully, they are not on my crew, but on the crew of a contractor buddy =
of mine. I will be glad when I am away from those guys. I readily embrace=
today's materials, tools and procedures. Some work better than others, bu=
t I wouldn't go back to swinging a hammer all day (literally), hand sanding=
(who could afford a "Speed Bloc"?), yesterday's adhesives, or corded only =
tools.
I am just realizing how much I can't stand those block headed morons...
Robert
Robert
On 2/6/2019 2:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019
at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
table
>>>> for cutting.
>>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
track
>>>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods
of use.
>>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>>>> around.
>>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be
$400.00.
>>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>>>
>>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a
table saw
>>>> and with the added benefit of portability.
>>>>
>>>>
https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>>>
>>>
>>> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
>>>
>>
>> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
>> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean
cut.
>> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
>> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
>>
>> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
>> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
>> saw will deliver all you need.
>>
>> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
>> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
>> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
>> your needs.
>
> You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm
still
> having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
> a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
> it sounds like it is. ;-)
Not a problem, I would be asking the same questions.
"Remember" the Festool MFT and the NEW Kreg track saw and "table" make
things easier for all aspects of cutting small parts.
>
> How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
The MFT table allows you to raise and lock in an angle over the work.
The work sits against an adjustable fence. That fence is set at 90 to
the track or at an angle to the track. If necessary you can shorten the
length of a board 1/64". This works similar to a RAS except instead of
changing the boom angle you adjust the fence angle.
Go here and scroll through the picture examples of the saw and table.
https://www.festoolusa.com/products/semi-stationary-work/multifunction-table/495315---mft3
>
> What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
> and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
The Festool TS-75 will cut to a depth
of 3" at 90 degrees and 2.125" at 45 degrees.
On the current project I needed to cut at a 7 degree angle on two pieces
of same sized 3/4" thick pieces of MDO. I stacked the two pieces,
clamped them together laid the track along the line to be cut, and made
the cut.
>
> How narrow of a board can you rip?
With a little creative setting up, probably 1/2" or so. You place same
thickness wider boards behind the narrow piece to support the track.
>
> Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
Absolutely
>
> Can you joint an edge?
Absolutely and I do this when I buy S2S material.
(I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
> my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
> works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
> to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
> for the seat didn't work out as well.)
>
You do need to add the appropriate length track to accomplish this. I
have 3 track lengths. When put together the two longer ones will rip an
8' long piece of plywood.
On 2/2/2019 11:30 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/19 10:54 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
>> table for cutting.
>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
>> track saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and
>> methods of use.
>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>> around.
>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>
>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table
>> saw and with the added benefit of portability.
>>
>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>
>> For those of you in California this may not be a good option,
>> apparently it causes cancer in your state. I can't wait for the
>> warning labels that caution that the item could burn and cause forest
>> fires. ;~)
>>
>> https://www.kregtool.com/tool-specs/warnings/proposition-65-a2-w.aspx
>>
>
> I just finally got into the track saw game. I saw the Kreg when I was
> looking around, but I ended up going with the cordless Makita for a few
> reasons...
There certainly is nothing wrong with Makita especially with
reliability. I have had a Makita trim router for several years and it
is bullet proof.
And I bought a Makita impact and drill in 2004. I used them extensively
until I started using a Festool drill in early 2012. I can say that I
no longer use my Makita impact. Amazingly the Festool drill replaced
the Makita impact driver. On a rare occasion I will use my Bosch impact
but mostly if I want to drill holes and not switch bits on the Festool
drill.
> 1. It's been getting really great reviews on respected tool review sites.
> 2. After getting a Makita cordless impact driver last year, I've begun
> the migration to all Makita cordless (and a few corded) tools.
> 3. The Makita track saw came with two 5ah batts, PLUS a free 2/pack of
> 5ah batts as a cooperate promotion, through Jan. Saw w/blade, dual
> charger, Four 5ah batts, stacking cases, for $500.
It seems that batteries are getting less expensive. Even the Festool
batteries are reasonably priced. And if I go to a Festool road show
they typically give me a new battery and sometimes a new charger too.
>
> It was just a no-brainer for me since I've fallen in love with Makita
> and already had a bunch of batteries... now even more! Another bonus is
> the Makita fits Festool tracks, so if I need one in a hurry, there's
> plenty in stock at the local Woodcraft.
I understand that DeWalt will fit the Festool track too. Maybe another
way to go in a pinch.
>
> I got a track, yesterday, from Amazon with same-day delivery... I'll be
> taking the saw on its maiden voyage, today, making a table top.
>
>
Cool!
On 2/3/2019 9:22 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/3/19 3:24 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/2/2019 11:30 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 2/2/19 10:54 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
>>>> table for cutting.
>>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
>>>> track saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and
>>>> methods of use.
>>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable
>>>> with built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you
>>>> carry it around.
>>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
>>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>>>
>>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table
>>>> saw and with the added benefit of portability.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For those of you in California this may not be a good option,
>>>> apparently it causes cancer in your state. I can't wait for the
>>>> warning labels that caution that the item could burn and cause
>>>> forest fires. ;~)
>>>>
>>>> https://www.kregtool.com/tool-specs/warnings/proposition-65-a2-w.aspx
>>>>
>>>
>>> I just finally got into the track saw game. I saw the Kreg when I
>>> was looking around, but I ended up going with the cordless Makita for
>>> a few reasons...
>>
>> There certainly is nothing wrong with Makita especially with
>> reliability. I have had a Makita trim router for several years and it
>> is bullet proof.
>> And I bought a Makita impact and drill in 2004. I used them
>> extensively until I started using a Festool drill in early 2012. I
>> can say that I no longer use my Makita impact. Amazingly the Festool
>> drill replaced the Makita impact driver. On a rare occasion I will
>> use my Bosch impact but mostly if I want to drill holes and not switch
>> bits on the Festool drill.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> 1. It's been getting really great reviews on respected tool review
>>> sites.
>>> 2. After getting a Makita cordless impact driver last year, I've
>>> begun the migration to all Makita cordless (and a few corded) tools.
>>> 3. The Makita track saw came with two 5ah batts, PLUS a free 2/pack
>>> of 5ah batts as a cooperate promotion, through Jan. Saw w/blade,
>>> dual charger, Four 5ah batts, stacking cases, for $500.
>>
>> It seems that batteries are getting less expensive. Even the Festool
>> batteries are reasonably priced. And if I go to a Festool road show
>> they typically give me a new battery and sometimes a new charger too.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> It was just a no-brainer for me since I've fallen in love with Makita
>>> and already had a bunch of batteries... now even more! Another bonus
>>> is the Makita fits Festool tracks, so if I need one in a hurry,
>>> there's plenty in stock at the local Woodcraft.
>>
>> I understand that DeWalt will fit the Festool track too. Maybe
>> another way to go in a pinch.
>>
>>>
>>> I got a track, yesterday, from Amazon with same-day delivery... I'll
>>> be taking the saw on its maiden voyage, today, making a table top.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Cool!
>>
>
> I used it yesterday and I'm completely sold.
> Cuts like butta. Starts up immediately and shuts down immediately.
> I can't believe how much power it has. I think DC is a much better
> delivery system for power, but that's another debate.
> I really love not having to worry about an extension cord. It's fairly
> light, even with two 5ah batts attached.
> Lovin' it so far. I like the cases, too.
>
>
Do you have a vac attached too? With the vac attached less than 10% of
the dust gets away.
On 2/6/2019 2:18 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 8:53:17 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> We all know guys who's only conversations are when they're complaining
>> about something... heck, we have that type in here.
>
> I do a good job staying away from those folks and their attitudes, but sometimes it gets me. I have three large jobs going on now, two pretty complex. Actually doing some structure repair and design by leveling an all wood building on one of them. City codes, modern installation techniques and materials, and short delivery times make both a challenge.
>
> I don't have time for idiocy, and have a pretty small tolerance for it. Most of my own guys have been around me for years and know what I want, know when to talk to me, and know when to leave me alone. So when resolving a structural issue to my satisfaction and coming up with a detail for construction, it is more than annoying to have some moron come share their "knowledge" with me. Those guys don't work for me, but are on the job because the owner wanted to them. Silly as it may sound, I am not not used to, nor do I invite conversation on the job. And when it is someone that is not on my team, I would prefer that they keep to themselves.
>
> I have a nasty, profane and smart mouth, I today I able to get those two meatheads to understand I don't care about them, their opinions, or how they feel about their day. I was really surprised and go a chuckle out of the result all day; they went to their boss and told them I was mean and rude. Guys that age whining... what a world.
>
> Robert
>
Mean and rude!!! LOL #mefarkintoo.
On 2/3/2019 9:29 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/3/19 3:14 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/2/2019 11:30 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 10:54:39 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
>>>> table
>>>> for cutting.
>>>
>>> Yes, I "saw" that. The price tag didn't look all that great,
>>> considering the amount of plastic on the thing.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well I was going to argue the point. LOL. I paid $387.00 for my
>> Festool TS-75 track saw in 2009. I had to look it up.
>>
>> But today TS-75 costs $660. and the MDT/3 table that will guide angle
>> cuts is $720. The Kreg set up is $899. with extra's like the dolly
>> like set up. The Festool set up is about 50% more expensive.
>>
>> If I were a hobbyist I'd probably give the Kreg set up a close look.
>>
>> Plastic is not so bad. My Festool drill is mostly some kind of
>> plastic and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like
>> to admit. Â Â As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are
>> all plastic. I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than
>> plastic. I make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
>
> Anyone who's still complaining about "plastic" is living stuck in the 50s.
> Modern plastics are stronger and more durable than metal counterparts,
> given the same or less weight/mass. Glass reinforced polymers are
> ridiculously strong and heat resistant.
And the Kreg saw appears to have as much metal and plastic as the
Festool saws.
>
> These are the same guys who still complain about "OSB" but haven't ever
> used any modern resin/wax impregnated composite fiber sheets goods. They
> used "OSB" 40 years ago and that experience informs their opinions, today.
>
>
There is a "green" MDF that is water resistant. I am currently building
a housing to cover out door plumbing. I strongly considered using the
green MDF. How water resistant is it? I used a couple of pieces to sit
on the ground to form a turn table for my hose reel. It was rained on
and got a lot of sunshine for a year. It only faded and did not swell.
That said, the weight of MDF kept me from using it in this application,
I'm using MDO instead.
On 2/7/2019 11:49 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 12:19:13 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/7/19 10:58 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 5:40:40 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/6/2019 2:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019
>>>> at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> >> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> >>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> >>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>>> >>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
>>>> table
>>>> >>>> for cutting.
>>>> >>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>>>> >>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
>>>> track
>>>> >>>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods
>>>> of use.
>>>> >>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>>>> >>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>>>> >>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>>>> >>>> around.
>>>> >>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be
>>>> $400.00.
>>>> >>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>>>> >>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a
>>>> table saw
>>>> >>>> and with the added benefit of portability.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
>>>> >> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean
>>>> cut.
>>>> >> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
>>>> >> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
>>>> >> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
>>>> >> saw will deliver all you need.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
>>>> >> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
>>>> >> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
>>>> >> your needs.
>>>> >
>>>> > You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm
>>>> still
>>>> > having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
>>>> > a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
>>>> > it sounds like it is. ;-)
>>>> Not a problem, I would be asking the same questions.
>>>>
>>>> "Remember" the Festool MFT and the NEW Kreg track saw and "table" make
>>>> things easier for all aspects of cutting small parts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The MFT table allows you to raise and lock in an angle over the work.
>>>> The work sits against an adjustable fence. That fence is set at 90 to
>>>> the track or at an angle to the track. If necessary you can shorten the
>>>> length of a board 1/64". This works similar to a RAS except instead of
>>>> changing the boom angle you adjust the fence angle.
>>>>
>>>> Go here and scroll through the picture examples of the saw and table.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.festoolusa.com/products/semi-stationary-work/multifunction-table/495315---mft3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
>>>> > and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
>>>> The Festool TS-75 will cut to a depth
>>>> of 3" at 90 degrees and 2.125" at 45 degrees.
>>>>
>>>> On the current project I needed to cut at a 7 degree angle on two pieces
>>>> of same sized 3/4" thick pieces of MDO. I stacked the two pieces,
>>>> clamped them together laid the track along the line to be cut, and made
>>>> the cut.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > How narrow of a board can you rip?
>>>> With a little creative setting up, probably 1/2" or so. You place same
>>>> thickness wider boards behind the narrow piece to support the track.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
>>>> Absolutely
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Can you joint an edge?
>>>> Absolutely and I do this when I buy S2S material.
>>>>
>>>> (I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
>>>> > my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
>>>> > works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
>>>> > to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
>>>> > for the seat didn't work out as well.)
>>>> >
>>>> You do need to add the appropriate length track to accomplish this. I
>>>> have 3 track lengths. When put together the two longer ones will rip an
>>>> 8' long piece of plywood.
>>>
>>> Thanks. Here's a real life example that I ran into last night:
>>>
>>> Picture my table saw with no fence installed and the blade lowered below
>>> the table. That's my typically set up, since I often use the TS as an extra
>>> work surface (small shop).
>>>
>>> I needed a piece of 1/4" plywood cut to 9" x 12". I had a 24" x 24" piece.
>>>
>>> I slapped the fence on the TS, raised the blade, made one cut. Moved the fence,
>>> made the second cut. Lowered the blade and hung the fence back on the wall.
>>> 2 minutes tops and I'm back to where I started.
>>>
>>> How would you accomplish that same task with the track saw?
>>>
>>> (Yes, I probably could have made 3 cuts with my miter saw, but that takes
>>> more set-up (measuring, etc.) and makes more of a mess. Let's just compare
>>> TS to track-saw for this task.)
>>>
>>
>> For that, yes, quicker on the TS.
>> But let's add a couple factors.
>> 1. Let's say, you need the same from a full sheet of 3/4" ply.
>> It's always soooo much fun to cross cut full sheets on a tablesaw in a
>> small shop, right?
>> 2. Let's say you need to do the same thing, on a job site.
>
> #1 means that I should have both. Then I can stand outside my shop and
> look at all the nice tools that I can't use because there's only room
> for the tools. ;-)
>
> A full sheet in my shop would essentially be the shop.
>
>>
>> Generally, it's easier to move whatever is smaller across whatever is
>> bigger.
>> In your case, it's easier to move a 24"x24" piece across a tablesaw.
>> In the case of a full sheet, it's easier to move the tool across the
>> piece.
>
> But that's not happening in my shop. So I guess it's a track saw for the
> garage and a TS for the shop. SWMBO will be so pleased. ;-)
>
>
>>
>> Same with a router vs. router table.
>
> Which brings up the other issue. My router table is built into my table
> saw. If I replaced the TS with a track saw set-up, I'd need to built a
> dedicated router table. Now I'm back to the space issue.
>
> Can a router table be integrated into a track saw table like it can
> be with a TS?
>
>>
>> As for a track saw. There are a couple guys who are prominent on social
>> media who build a LOT of really nice built ins and that's pretty much
>> all they do.
>> Both of these guys have recently blogged that they are doing it all
>> on-site with their track saws and don't use their table saws at all.
>>
>> Most track saw makers also make router guides that fit their tracks, so
>> it makes it just as easy to switch to the router for dados and rabbets
>> on-site.
>>
>
> How are small pieces dealt with on a job site? Do you guys haul around
> bench top router tables?
>
OK, just for the record, I am not suggesting getting rid of a TS and
replacing with a track saw. But if you don't have either and limited
space a track saw should be looked at closely. And especially if you
are working on location away from the shop.
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 10:54:39 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
>for cutting.
Yes, I "saw" that. The price tag didn't look all that great,
considering the amount of plastic on the thing.
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
> >> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
> >> for cutting.
> >> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
> >> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool track
> >> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods of use.
> >> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
> >> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
> >> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
> >> around.
> >> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
> >> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
> >> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
> >>
> >> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table saw
> >> and with the added benefit of portability.
> >>
> >> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
> >>
> >
> > What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
> >
>
> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean cut.
> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
>
> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
> saw will deliver all you need.
>
> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
> your needs.
You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm still
having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
it sounds like it is. ;-)
How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
How narrow of a board can you rip?
Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
Can you joint an edge? (I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
for the seat didn't work out as well.)
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
> for cutting.
> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool track
> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods of use.
> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
> around.
> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>
> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table saw
> and with the added benefit of portability.
>
> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>
What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 1:14:09 PM UTC-8, Leon wrote:
> Well I was going to argue the point. LOL. I paid $387.00 for my
> Festool TS-75 track saw in 2009. I had to look it up.
Whoa! Not a good hobbyist price. I made a wooden
sled that my skilsaw could be clamped into, and (using a table saw) made
a few straight edge sections of plywood, with hardboard ribs to engage the
sled to the track; maybe $40 total, including the saw.
Only hard part of the project was planing the dovetailed
sled to get it flat before fitting the sole plate. It
works well, despite looking rather clumsy.
On 2/6/2019 2:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
>>>> for cutting.
>>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool track
>>>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods of use.
>>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>>>> around.
>>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
>>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>>>
>>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table saw
>>>> and with the added benefit of portability.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>>>
>>>
>>> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
>>>
>>
>> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
>> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean cut.
>> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
>> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
>>
>> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
>> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
>> saw will deliver all you need.
>>
>> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
>> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
>> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
>> your needs.
>
> You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm still
> having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
> a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
> it sounds like it is. ;-)
Not a problem, I would be asking the same questions.
"Remember" the Festool MFT and the NEW Kreg track saw and "table" make
things easier for all aspects of cutting small parts.
>
> How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
The MFT table allows you to raise and lock in an angle over the work.
The work sits against an adjustable fence. That fence is set at 90 to
the track or at an angle to the track. If necessary you can shorten the
length of a board 1/64". This works similar to a RAS except instead of
changing the boom angle you adjust the fence angle.
Go here and scroll through the picture examples of the saw and table.
https://www.festoolusa.com/products/semi-stationary-work/multifunction-table/495315---mft3
>
> What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
> and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
The Festool TS-75 will cut to a depth
of 3" at 90 degrees and 2.125" at 45 degrees.
On the current project I needed to cut at a 7 degree angle on two pieces
of same sized 3/4" thick pieces of MDO. I stacked the two pieces,
clamped them together laid the track along the line to be cut, and made
the cut.
>
> How narrow of a board can you rip?
With a little creative setting up, probably 1/2" or so. You place same
thickness wider boards behind the narrow piece to support the track.
>
> Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
Absolutely
>
> Can you joint an edge?
Absolutely and I do this when I buy S2S material.
(I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
> my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
> works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
> to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
> for the seat didn't work out as well.)
>
You do need to add the appropriate length track to accomplish this. I
have 3 track lengths. When put together the two longer ones will rip an
8' long piece of plywood.
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 9:53:17 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/5/19 2:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 9:29:42 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 2/3/19 3:14 PM, Leon wrote:
> >=20
> >>> Plastic is not so bad.=C2=A0 My Festool drill is mostly some kind of =
plastic
> >>> and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like to adm=
it.
> >>> =C2=A0As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are al=
l
> >>> plastic.=C2=A0 I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than pla=
stic.=C2=A0 I
> >>> make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
> >=20
> > I still have the first heavy duty circular saw I bought for job use aro=
und 1976. It has an aluminum shoe and blade guard, and the height adjustme=
nt is metal. The saw motor case, the handle, the adjustment knobs, the tri=
gger, and all the connectors and assembly points are plastic. That saw has=
been rebuilt 4 or 5 times (new bearings, brushes, lube, a couple of switch=
es, several cords) after about 15 years of heavy use. Plastic parts never =
failed. Same with my Milwaukee hole shooter, purchased in '75. Both still=
work, both have fallen off scaffolds, fallen off ladders, been thrown into=
the back of trucks with other equipment and all the other crap that happen=
s to job site tools with big crews. No cracks, still waterproof, and the p=
lastic still holds the screws like it did when it was new. Go figure.
> >>
> >> Anyone who's still complaining about "plastic" is living stuck in the =
50s.
> >> Modern plastics are stronger and more durable than metal counterparts,
> >> given the same or less weight/mass. Glass reinforced polymers are
> >> ridiculously strong and heat resistant.
> >=20
> > Absolutely.
> >=20
> >>
> >> These are the same guys who still complain about "OSB" but haven't eve=
r
> >> used any modern resin/wax impregnated composite fiber sheets goods.
> >> They used "OSB" 40 years ago and that experience informs their opinion=
s,
> >> today.
> >=20
> > Guess I am replying because for the last couple of weeks I have working=
around a couple of old hard heads that know everything, have seen everythi=
ng, done everything, and feel like there isn't much for them to learn. The=
y have an opinion on everything and it isn't positive unless they are talki=
ng about "the way it use to be". No matter that coming up on 40 years I ha=
ve had my own business longer than they have been in the trades, no matter =
that I am about 10 years older than them. In their 50s, they seem to "reme=
mber" an awful lot of things that were happening on site in the 50s and 60s=
.
> >=20
> > Your trigger? When you mentioned OSB. There is a manufactured sheet g=
oods product for just about every application. It is rainy season here in s=
outh Texas, and I was on the phone looking for water resistant OSB for roof=
patching on a current project. I was dumbfounded... one of the cavemen ac=
tually came to me with a long face and told me he couldn't work with OSB as=
he "didn't trust it". He very seriously told me of some incident that hap=
pened 20 years ago when it was wet for a few days, and scarred him forever.
> >=20
> > Thankfully, they are not on my crew, but on the crew of a contractor bu=
ddy of mine. I will be glad when I am away from those guys. I readily emb=
race today's materials, tools and procedures. Some work better than others=
, but I wouldn't go back to swinging a hammer all day (literally), hand san=
ding (who could afford a "Speed Bloc"?), yesterday's adhesives, or corded o=
nly tools.
> >=20
> > I am just realizing how much I can't stand those block headed morons...
> >=20
> > Robert
> >=20
>=20
> I'm laughing at the fact that they're in their 50s and somehow where=20
> working in the trades from birth. Maybe their moms were carpenters and=
=20
> they remember them working while pregnant. :-)
>=20
> We all know guys who's only conversations are when they're complaining=20
> about something... heck, we have that type in here.
>=20
> You know the saying, "If it weren't for bad luck, he's have no luck at=20
> all"?
> Well for some, if it weren't for complaining they'd never talk at all.
>=20
So many choices. ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Df1pzXJuvdAY
On 2/2/19 10:54 AM, Leon wrote:
> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
> for cutting.
> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool track
> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods of use.
> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
> around.
> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>
> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table saw
> and with the added benefit of portability.
>
> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>
> For those of you in California this may not be a good option, apparently
> it causes cancer in your state. I can't wait for the warning labels
> that caution that the item could burn and cause forest fires. ;~)
>
> https://www.kregtool.com/tool-specs/warnings/proposition-65-a2-w.aspx
>
I just finally got into the track saw game. I saw the Kreg when I was
looking around, but I ended up going with the cordless Makita for a few
reasons...
1. It's been getting really great reviews on respected tool review sites.
2. After getting a Makita cordless impact driver last year, I've begun
the migration to all Makita cordless (and a few corded) tools.
3. The Makita track saw came with two 5ah batts, PLUS a free 2/pack of
5ah batts as a cooperate promotion, through Jan. Saw w/blade, dual
charger, Four 5ah batts, stacking cases, for $500.
It was just a no-brainer for me since I've fallen in love with Makita
and already had a bunch of batteries... now even more! Another bonus is
the Makita fits Festool tracks, so if I need one in a hurry, there's
plenty in stock at the local Woodcraft.
I got a track, yesterday, from Amazon with same-day delivery... I'll be
taking the saw on its maiden voyage, today, making a table top.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/3/19 3:24 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/2/2019 11:30 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/2/19 10:54 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
>>> table for cutting.
>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
>>> track saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and
>>> methods of use.
>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>>> around.
>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>>
>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table
>>> saw and with the added benefit of portability.
>>>
>>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>>
>>>
>>> For those of you in California this may not be a good option,
>>> apparently it causes cancer in your state. I can't wait for the
>>> warning labels that caution that the item could burn and cause forest
>>> fires. ;~)
>>>
>>> https://www.kregtool.com/tool-specs/warnings/proposition-65-a2-w.aspx
>>>
>>
>> I just finally got into the track saw game. I saw the Kreg when I was
>> looking around, but I ended up going with the cordless Makita for a
>> few reasons...
>
> There certainly is nothing wrong with Makita especially with
> reliability. I have had a Makita trim router for several years and it
> is bullet proof.
> And I bought a Makita impact and drill in 2004. I used them extensively
> until I started using a Festool drill in early 2012. I can say that I
> no longer use my Makita impact. Amazingly the Festool drill replaced
> the Makita impact driver. On a rare occasion I will use my Bosch impact
> but mostly if I want to drill holes and not switch bits on the Festool
> drill.
>
>
>
>
>> 1. It's been getting really great reviews on respected tool review sites.
>> 2. After getting a Makita cordless impact driver last year, I've begun
>> the migration to all Makita cordless (and a few corded) tools.
>> 3. The Makita track saw came with two 5ah batts, PLUS a free 2/pack of
>> 5ah batts as a cooperate promotion, through Jan. Saw w/blade, dual
>> charger, Four 5ah batts, stacking cases, for $500.
>
> It seems that batteries are getting less expensive. Even the Festool
> batteries are reasonably priced. And if I go to a Festool road show
> they typically give me a new battery and sometimes a new charger too.
>
>
>>
>> It was just a no-brainer for me since I've fallen in love with Makita
>> and already had a bunch of batteries... now even more! Another bonus
>> is the Makita fits Festool tracks, so if I need one in a hurry,
>> there's plenty in stock at the local Woodcraft.
>
> I understand that DeWalt will fit the Festool track too. Maybe another
> way to go in a pinch.
>
>>
>> I got a track, yesterday, from Amazon with same-day delivery... I'll
>> be taking the saw on its maiden voyage, today, making a table top.
>>
>>
>
> Cool!
>
I used it yesterday and I'm completely sold.
Cuts like butta. Starts up immediately and shuts down immediately.
I can't believe how much power it has. I think DC is a much better
delivery system for power, but that's another debate.
I really love not having to worry about an extension cord. It's fairly
light, even with two 5ah batts attached.
Lovin' it so far. I like the cases, too.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/3/19 3:14 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/2/2019 11:30 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 10:54:39 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
>>> for cutting.
>>
>> Yes, I "saw" that. The price tag didn't look all that great,
>> considering the amount of plastic on the thing.
>>
>
>
> Well I was going to argue the point. LOL. I paid $387.00 for my
> Festool TS-75 track saw in 2009. I had to look it up.
>
> But today TS-75 costs $660. and the MDT/3 table that will guide angle
> cuts is $720. The Kreg set up is $899. with extra's like the dolly like
> set up. The Festool set up is about 50% more expensive.
>
> If I were a hobbyist I'd probably give the Kreg set up a close look.
>
> Plastic is not so bad. My Festool drill is mostly some kind of plastic
> and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like to admit.
> Â As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are all
> plastic. I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than plastic. I
> make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
Anyone who's still complaining about "plastic" is living stuck in the 50s.
Modern plastics are stronger and more durable than metal counterparts,
given the same or less weight/mass. Glass reinforced polymers are
ridiculously strong and heat resistant.
These are the same guys who still complain about "OSB" but haven't ever
used any modern resin/wax impregnated composite fiber sheets goods.
They used "OSB" 40 years ago and that experience informs their opinions,
today.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/5/19 2:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 9:29:42 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/3/19 3:14 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>>> Plastic is not so bad. My Festool drill is mostly some kind of plastic
>>> and it had hit the concrete floor more times than I would like to admit.
>>> Â As have all of my Festool sanders, 3 of them, and they are all
>>> plastic. I would be more afraid of metal being damaged than plastic. I
>>> make double sure that my Domino does not get dropped.
>
> I still have the first heavy duty circular saw I bought for job use around 1976. It has an aluminum shoe and blade guard, and the height adjustment is metal. The saw motor case, the handle, the adjustment knobs, the trigger, and all the connectors and assembly points are plastic. That saw has been rebuilt 4 or 5 times (new bearings, brushes, lube, a couple of switches, several cords) after about 15 years of heavy use. Plastic parts never failed. Same with my Milwaukee hole shooter, purchased in '75. Both still work, both have fallen off scaffolds, fallen off ladders, been thrown into the back of trucks with other equipment and all the other crap that happens to job site tools with big crews. No cracks, still waterproof, and the plastic still holds the screws like it did when it was new. Go figure.
>>
>> Anyone who's still complaining about "plastic" is living stuck in the 50s.
>> Modern plastics are stronger and more durable than metal counterparts,
>> given the same or less weight/mass. Glass reinforced polymers are
>> ridiculously strong and heat resistant.
>
> Absolutely.
>
>>
>> These are the same guys who still complain about "OSB" but haven't ever
>> used any modern resin/wax impregnated composite fiber sheets goods.
>> They used "OSB" 40 years ago and that experience informs their opinions,
>> today.
>
> Guess I am replying because for the last couple of weeks I have working around a couple of old hard heads that know everything, have seen everything, done everything, and feel like there isn't much for them to learn. They have an opinion on everything and it isn't positive unless they are talking about "the way it use to be". No matter that coming up on 40 years I have had my own business longer than they have been in the trades, no matter that I am about 10 years older than them. In their 50s, they seem to "remember" an awful lot of things that were happening on site in the 50s and 60s.
>
> Your trigger? When you mentioned OSB. There is a manufactured sheet goods product for just about every application. It is rainy season here in south Texas, and I was on the phone looking for water resistant OSB for roof patching on a current project. I was dumbfounded... one of the cavemen actually came to me with a long face and told me he couldn't work with OSB as he "didn't trust it". He very seriously told me of some incident that happened 20 years ago when it was wet for a few days, and scarred him forever.
>
> Thankfully, they are not on my crew, but on the crew of a contractor buddy of mine. I will be glad when I am away from those guys. I readily embrace today's materials, tools and procedures. Some work better than others, but I wouldn't go back to swinging a hammer all day (literally), hand sanding (who could afford a "Speed Bloc"?), yesterday's adhesives, or corded only tools.
>
> I am just realizing how much I can't stand those block headed morons...
>
> Robert
>
I'm laughing at the fact that they're in their 50s and somehow where
working in the trades from birth. Maybe their moms were carpenters and
they remember them working while pregnant. :-)
We all know guys who's only conversations are when they're complaining
about something... heck, we have that type in here.
You know the saying, "If it weren't for bad luck, he's have no luck at
all"?
Well for some, if it weren't for complaining they'd never talk at all.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/6/19 2:18 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 8:53:17 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> We all know guys who's only conversations are when they're
>> complaining about something... heck, we have that type in here.
>
> I do a good job staying away from those folks and their attitudes,
> but sometimes it gets me. I have three large jobs going on now, two
> pretty complex. Actually doing some structure repair and design by
> leveling an all wood building on one of them. City codes, modern
> installation techniques and materials, and short delivery times make
> both a challenge.
>
> I don't have time for idiocy, and have a pretty small tolerance for
> it. Most of my own guys have been around me for years and know what
> I want, know when to talk to me, and know when to leave me alone. So
> when resolving a structural issue to my satisfaction and coming up
> with a detail for construction, it is more than annoying to have some
> moron come share their "knowledge" with me. Those guys don't work
> for me, but are on the job because the owner wanted to them. Silly
> as it may sound, I am not not used to, nor do I invite conversation
> on the job. And when it is someone that is not on my team, I would
> prefer that they keep to themselves.
>
> I have a nasty, profane and smart mouth, I today I able to get those
> two meatheads to understand I don't care about them, their opinions,
> or how they feel about their day. I was really surprised and go a
> chuckle out of the result all day; they went to their boss and told
> them I was mean and rude. Guys that age whining... what a world.
>
> Robert
>
Don't get me started... oh wait, you did. By the way, the irony of
complaining about guys who complain isn't lost on me. :-)
Your "conversation on the job" thing got me thinking. There are two
things I really hate on a job...
1. Further conversation about a decision that has already been made.
I have very little patience for those who continue to discuss or debate
a decision that's already been made. It's usually not to argue or
debate the topic, although I could at least respect that. It's when the
decision has been made about a design or structural element and it's
agreed that "this is what we're going with." It's usually people who
feel like their opinion needs to be heard, even if it's the same opinion
as everyone else or the opinion that's already been agreed upon. To
them, it's not valid unless they say it. Or their precious self-esteem
needs stroked.
My mind is on to the next thing in the process. My mind is considering
future decisions and procedures and I don't have room in my brain or
attention span to rehash or continue discussing topis already decided,
or to put it another way, *closed.* The gavel has already struck.
Let's move on.
2. Home owners/clients who second guess or want to know "why" every step
of the way.
First of all, get out! I don't need an audience for this gig. Second,
you hired me for my expertise and skill level, either trust that I know
what I'm doing or hire someone else.
"Why are you doing it that way? Can't you just do this?"
"How come we can't just do such-n-such? My Son-in-law said it's easy
and all we need to do is..."
I don't have time to teach a structural engineering course or read you
the plumbing code book while doing your job and all you're doing is
distracting me and worse, putting bad ideas in my head.
If they're paying my by the hour? Ok, I'll sit here while we work out
your daddy issues. It's your money.
If they're paying me by the job, errrrg! That's when I have to try
really hard to keep my inner-northerner from coming out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/6/19 11:01 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/3/2019 9:22 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/3/19 3:24 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/2/2019 11:30 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 2/2/19 10:54 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears
>>>>> to offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool
>>>>> MFT table for cutting.
>>>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a
>>>>> lefty version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the
>>>>> Festool track saw, it has a lot of the same features for
>>>>> adjustments and methods of use.
>>>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>>>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable
>>>>> with built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you
>>>>> carry it around.
>>>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be
>>>>> $400.00.
>>>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>>>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table
>>>>> saw and with the added benefit of portability.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For those of you in California this may not be a good option,
>>>>> apparently it causes cancer in your state. I can't wait for the
>>>>> warning labels that caution that the item could burn and cause
>>>>> forest fires. ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.kregtool.com/tool-specs/warnings/proposition-65-a2-w.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just finally got into the track saw game. I saw the Kreg when I
>>>> was looking around, but I ended up going with the cordless Makita
>>>> for a few reasons...
>>>
>>> There certainly is nothing wrong with Makita especially with
>>> reliability. I have had a Makita trim router for several years and
>>> it is bullet proof.
>>> And I bought a Makita impact and drill in 2004. I used them
>>> extensively until I started using a Festool drill in early 2012. I
>>> can say that I no longer use my Makita impact. Amazingly the Festool
>>> drill replaced the Makita impact driver. On a rare occasion I will
>>> use my Bosch impact but mostly if I want to drill holes and not
>>> switch bits on the Festool drill.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 1. It's been getting really great reviews on respected tool review
>>>> sites.
>>>> 2. After getting a Makita cordless impact driver last year, I've
>>>> begun the migration to all Makita cordless (and a few corded) tools.
>>>> 3. The Makita track saw came with two 5ah batts, PLUS a free 2/pack
>>>> of 5ah batts as a cooperate promotion, through Jan. Saw w/blade,
>>>> dual charger, Four 5ah batts, stacking cases, for $500.
>>>
>>> It seems that batteries are getting less expensive. Even the Festool
>>> batteries are reasonably priced. And if I go to a Festool road show
>>> they typically give me a new battery and sometimes a new charger too.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It was just a no-brainer for me since I've fallen in love with
>>>> Makita and already had a bunch of batteries... now even more!
>>>> Another bonus is the Makita fits Festool tracks, so if I need one in
>>>> a hurry, there's plenty in stock at the local Woodcraft.
>>>
>>> I understand that DeWalt will fit the Festool track too. Maybe
>>> another way to go in a pinch.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I got a track, yesterday, from Amazon with same-day delivery... I'll
>>>> be taking the saw on its maiden voyage, today, making a table top.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cool!
>>>
>>
>> I used it yesterday and I'm completely sold.
>> Cuts like butta. Starts up immediately and shuts down immediately.
>> I can't believe how much power it has. I think DC is a much better
>> delivery system for power, but that's another debate.
>> I really love not having to worry about an extension cord. It's
>> fairly light, even with two 5ah batts attached.
>> Lovin' it so far. I like the cases, too.
>>
>>
>
> Do you have a vac attached too? With the vac attached less than 10% of
> the dust gets away.
I haven't attached a vac yet, but I look forward to it.
Funny thing is, there's a lot less dust to begin with because the blade
is so thin.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/7/19 10:58 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 5:40:40 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/6/2019 2:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:> On Wednesday, February 6, 2019
>> at 12:10:21 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >> On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >>> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> >>>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>> >>>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT
>> table
>> >>>> for cutting.
>> >>>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>> >>>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool
>> track
>> >>>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods
>> of use.
>> >>>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>> >>>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>> >>>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>> >>>> around.
>> >>>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be
>> $400.00.
>> >>>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>> >>>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a
>> table saw
>> >>>> and with the added benefit of portability.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
>> >> cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean
>> cut.
>> >> These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
>> >> FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
>> >>
>> >> The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
>> >> you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
>> >> saw will deliver all you need.
>> >>
>> >> If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
>> >> tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
>> >> you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
>> >> your needs.
>> >
>> > You obviously do more (and much better) wood working than me, but I'm
>> still
>> > having trouble seeing that. Granted, I don't have a track saw to compare
>> > a TS with, so I have some questions. None of this is push-back, even if
>> > it sounds like it is. ;-)
>> Not a problem, I would be asking the same questions.
>>
>> "Remember" the Festool MFT and the NEW Kreg track saw and "table" make
>> things easier for all aspects of cutting small parts.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > How do you handle cuts that you would use a sled for? Small panels, etc?
>>
>>
>> The MFT table allows you to raise and lock in an angle over the work.
>> The work sits against an adjustable fence. That fence is set at 90 to
>> the track or at an angle to the track. If necessary you can shorten the
>> length of a board 1/64". This works similar to a RAS except instead of
>> changing the boom angle you adjust the fence angle.
>>
>> Go here and scroll through the picture examples of the saw and table.
>>
>> https://www.festoolusa.com/products/semi-stationary-work/multifunction-table/495315---mft3
>>
>>
>> >
>> > What is the depth of cut? I can't rip 8/4 S2S boards with my circular saw
>> > and homemade luan straightedge, so I rip them on my table saw.
>> The Festool TS-75 will cut to a depth
>> of 3" at 90 degrees and 2.125" at 45 degrees.
>>
>> On the current project I needed to cut at a 7 degree angle on two pieces
>> of same sized 3/4" thick pieces of MDO. I stacked the two pieces,
>> clamped them together laid the track along the line to be cut, and made
>> the cut.
>>
>> >
>> > How narrow of a board can you rip?
>> With a little creative setting up, probably 1/2" or so. You place same
>> thickness wider boards behind the narrow piece to support the track.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Can you produce thin strips for edge banding?
>> Absolutely
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Can you joint an edge?
>> Absolutely and I do this when I buy S2S material.
>>
>> (I only ask because I don't have a joiner. For
>> > my current bench project I built a joiner fence for my table saw. It
>> > works really well for boards up to about 3 feet where it's fairly easy
>> > to keep consistent pressure on the fence. Joining 5' long 1-1/2" boards
>> > for the seat didn't work out as well.)
>> >
>> You do need to add the appropriate length track to accomplish this. I
>> have 3 track lengths. When put together the two longer ones will rip an
>> 8' long piece of plywood.
>
> Thanks. Here's a real life example that I ran into last night:
>
> Picture my table saw with no fence installed and the blade lowered below
> the table. That's my typically set up, since I often use the TS as an extra
> work surface (small shop).
>
> I needed a piece of 1/4" plywood cut to 9" x 12". I had a 24" x 24" piece.
>
> I slapped the fence on the TS, raised the blade, made one cut. Moved the fence,
> made the second cut. Lowered the blade and hung the fence back on the wall.
> 2 minutes tops and I'm back to where I started.
>
> How would you accomplish that same task with the track saw?
>
> (Yes, I probably could have made 3 cuts with my miter saw, but that takes
> more set-up (measuring, etc.) and makes more of a mess. Let's just compare
> TS to track-saw for this task.)
>
For that, yes, quicker on the TS.
But let's add a couple factors.
1. Let's say, you need the same from a full sheet of 3/4" ply.
It's always soooo much fun to cross cut full sheets on a tablesaw in a
small shop, right?
2. Let's say you need to do the same thing, on a job site.
Generally, it's easier to move whatever is smaller across whatever is
bigger.
In your case, it's easier to move a 24"x24" piece across a tablesaw.
In the case of a full sheet, it's easier to move the tool across the
piece.
Same with a router vs. router table.
As for a track saw. There are a couple guys who are prominent on social
media who build a LOT of really nice built ins and that's pretty much
all they do.
Both of these guys have recently blogged that they are doing it all
on-site with their track saws and don't use their table saws at all.
Most track saw makers also make router guides that fit their tracks, so
it makes it just as easy to switch to the router for dados and rabbets
on-site.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/3/2019 6:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 11:54:56 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> Looks like Kreg is getting into the Track Saw game and it appears to
>> offer features much like the Festool track saw and the Festool MFT table
>> for cutting.
>> Something interesting is the fact that the Kreg track saw is a lefty
>> version. And it appears to possibly be made much like the Festool track
>> saw, it has a lot of the same features for adjustments and methods of use.
>> The system is is a basic copy of the Festool system but with added
>> features. I really like the table folding up and being moveable with
>> built in wheels. The Festool MFT only folds up and then you carry it
>> around.
>> Just the saw and a track long enough to cut across 50" will be $400.00.
>> The cutting table with wheels kit will be $500.00
>> The Master kit that includes all of the above, $900.00.
>>
>> Like the Festool set up, you could probably get by with out a table saw
>> and with the added benefit of portability.
>>
>> https://www.kregtool.com/landing/adaptive-cutting-system.aspx?source=1677
>>
>
> What do you mean when you say "get by without a table saw"?
>
The better track saws can replace a table saw. My Festool track saw
cuts as accurately as my cabinet saw and delivers an extremely clean cut.
These days I break down sheet goods, and the larger pieces are cut TO
FINISHED DIMENSIONS, with my track saw.
The TS affords the ability to cut dado's and groves and cove cuts but if
you only need beveled, straight cuts, or miter joints, most any track
saw will deliver all you need.
If you are doing a lot of building, the TS is still the more comfortable
tool for repetitive cuts and ultimately quicker for those cuts. But if
you do not have a good TS a good track saw would probably fill 99% of
your needs.