What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
that you may never have been warned about? It might be helpful to others
to know about them. Of course, common sense would tell you to ventilate
adequately, but the degree of effects that these combinations might have
could possibly disable you before you could react. For example, I had a
fire going in a wood stove in a closed garage and spilled a can of formica
adhesive. I immediately developed a severe headache and became so dizzy
I fell to my knees and had to crawl out the door. Bad combination. And
everybody knows enough not to use a kerosene heater without ventilation,
I hope.
Wed, Jul 7, 2004, 12:16pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (BUB=A0209) queries:
What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
that you may never have been warned about? <snip>
Over the years, a lot, of course. Including a bit of Agent Orange. =
I've always tried to be careful about stuff like that, reading the
labels, and not buying things that really scared me, like some of the
automotive spray paints. But, for the last dozen or so years, been even
more cautious about that, and stopped using some things entiredly, use
plastic gloves to handle others, and been checking on alternative
(non-toxic) products.
I use mostly water based paints now. For oil-based, usually
kerosene clean-up, or cheap brush and toss it. Gone to water-base
finishes, so far so good; but probably shellac some "delicate" stuff.
Been trying vegetable (cooking) oil finishes, for maybe 7-8 years - good
results - check the archives. Also tryed "natural" stains a bit, and
tea stain works great, lots better than coffee. As a color "wash",
thinned latex paint works well.
JOAT
What we see depends mainly on what we look for.
- Sir John Lubbock
Was that exposure to phosgene gas a result of spending time on a
nuclear submarine???
rob
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:18:24 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>BUB 209 wrote:
>
>> What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
>> that you may never have been warned about? It might be helpful to others
>> to know about them. Of course, common sense would tell you to ventilate
>> adequately, but the degree of effects that these combinations might have
>> could possibly disable you before you could react. For example, I had a
>> fire going in a wood stove in a closed garage and spilled a can of formica
>> adhesive. I immediately developed a severe headache and became so dizzy
>> I fell to my knees and had to crawl out the door. Bad combination. And
>> everybody knows enough not to use a kerosene heater without ventilation,
>> I hope.
>the worst experience I had was when I naively used a cutting
>torch on a large sheet of galvanized metal. Not until much
>later did I find out about heating galvanized metal would
>produce poisonous fumes. I got immediately nauseated. Live
>and learn.
>
>I've also been exposed to phosgene gas on a number of
>occasions, but that's an issue I KNEW was hazardous, but
>unavoidable!
>
>dave
Rob Jones <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Was that exposure to phosgene gas a result of spending time on a
> nuclear submarine???
No, it was after he started posting to sci.engr.chem and pissed them
off as much as he did us.
--
Chaubaccy - poison delivered in someone's tobacco,
such as shredded PTFE
charlie b wrote:
> Heating galvy isn't a health risk. Using a cutting torch
> on it can be. It's zinc that is the galvy part. Melt it
> and it gives of zinc oxide fumes. Inhale those fumes and
> the zinc gets into your system at much higher levels
> than is good for you and hard to purge.
>
> I did lost wax casting of jewelry and small sculpture.
> Learned very early on that brass has zinc in it and
> bronze doesn't so you don't melt brass. There are
> also some bronzes that when melted give off toxix
> fumes - berylium (sp?) bronze gets very fluid
> and will let you cast very delicate details - BUT the
> fumes can mess you up.
>
> In general, the better the ventilation, the lower
> the risk of fumes doing you in. If you have to
> have fumes in an enclosed space - WEAR A
> MASK that's capable of filtering out the bad
> stuff or better yet - a hood with air from
> outside.
>
> And remember that a lot of fumes are flammable.
> In an enclosed space with an exposed flame like
> a Water Heater or room heater you're also creating
> all the ingredients for a BIG BOOM! Even a spark
> from a window fan can set things off. And this
> isn't limited to volatile liquids creating explosive
> fumes. Fine airborn saw dust - in sufficient
> concentrations can be just as explosive. If you're
> lucky, it'll only be a flash fire and you'll end up
> with the sun burned look rather than the shredded
> and charred look.
>
> It ain't just the sharp stuff that can get you
> so let's be careful out there - please
>
> charlie b
I used an oxyacetylene torch. Mucho fumes. I was working
in a fairly open area: 2,500 square foot shop with one wall
open completely to the outside (roll up doors).
Thought of you when I scary sharped a chisel today.
dave
Heating galvy isn't a health risk. Using a cutting torch
on it can be. It's zinc that is the galvy part. Melt it
and it gives of zinc oxide fumes. Inhale those fumes and
the zinc gets into your system at much higher levels
than is good for you and hard to purge.
I did lost wax casting of jewelry and small sculpture.
Learned very early on that brass has zinc in it and
bronze doesn't so you don't melt brass. There are
also some bronzes that when melted give off toxix
fumes - berylium (sp?) bronze gets very fluid
and will let you cast very delicate details - BUT the
fumes can mess you up.
In general, the better the ventilation, the lower
the risk of fumes doing you in. If you have to
have fumes in an enclosed space - WEAR A
MASK that's capable of filtering out the bad
stuff or better yet - a hood with air from
outside.
And remember that a lot of fumes are flammable.
In an enclosed space with an exposed flame like
a Water Heater or room heater you're also creating
all the ingredients for a BIG BOOM! Even a spark
from a window fan can set things off. And this
isn't limited to volatile liquids creating explosive
fumes. Fine airborn saw dust - in sufficient
concentrations can be just as explosive. If you're
lucky, it'll only be a flash fire and you'll end up
with the sun burned look rather than the shredded
and charred look.
It ain't just the sharp stuff that can get you
so let's be careful out there - please
charlie b
>I did lost wax casting of jewelry and small sculpture.
>Learned very early on that brass has zinc in it and
>bronze doesn't so you don't melt brass.
I did a sand cast to make a new latch for my microwave and I used brazing rods
for the material. That works pretty well without any bad stuff happening. They
are designed to be melted.
There's a list of ingredients and cautions on that can, and an MEDS for the
ingredients if you're not sure what they do.
Generally speaking, contact cements of the old type feature some real light
ketenes and dainties like toluene as solvents and to speed tacky time. They
can get to you quickly, especially if you're not drawing a lot of air
through the chimney (and replacing it from outdoors) with that woodstove.
"BUB 209" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
> that you may never have been warned about? It might be helpful to others
> to know about them. Of course, common sense would tell you to ventilate
> adequately, but the degree of effects that these combinations might have
> could possibly disable you before you could react. For example, I had a
> fire going in a wood stove in a closed garage and spilled a can of formica
> adhesive. I immediately developed a severe headache and became so dizzy
> I fell to my knees and had to crawl out the door. Bad combination. And
> everybody knows enough not to use a kerosene heater without ventilation,
> I hope.
Of course that would be MSDS, not what Bill Gates says.
"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There's a list of ingredients and cautions on that can, and an MEDS for
the
> ingredients if you're not sure what they do.
You learned the same lesson a woman on a recent call I had learned - dried
up cleanser residue containing bleach, in her case, and ammonia to wipe the
glass. Was the bluest person I had ever seen who was still alive. Still
is, but it was touch and go for about 15 minutes.
Bleach is an acid, of course. As is the CLR (HCl, is it?) lime is a base.
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> My dumb one was cleaning a shower (no chance of ventilation) with
> C-L-R to get rid of the lime and scale and then following up with
> bleach to get rid of the skin oil stains. Hmmm, why are my eyes
> burning? Hmm, acid and bleach? What does that produce? Why, chlorine
> gas, of course.
>
> Now I always wear a respirator when I clean the shower (boy do I look
> stupid; starkers with rubber gloves and a respirator), although I try
> to avoid using the bleach anymore, too.
Damn, and all the time I thought they were marketing hypochlorous acid, not
the sodium hypochlorite.
Thanks for the heads up. Mine was.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
wrote:
> >
> >Bleach is an acid, of course.
>
> Ummm.... no, it's not. At a pH of 12, it's a fairly caustic _base_.
>
> http://www.inchem.com.ph/naocl.htm
>
LRod wrote:
> Now I always wear a respirator when I clean the shower (boy do I look
> stupid; starkers with rubber gloves and a respirator), although I try
> to avoid using the bleach anymore, too.
I've had people stare at me while I'm mowing my yard but since I'm over 40 I
don't care. <g> My outfit:
- Pants tucked into army boots. (Why have something catch in your pants
leg while operating something that wants to take your toes off?)
- Safety glasses. (About once a month in the summer something flies up
from the mower & hits me in the face. Why risk the eyes?)
- Mining hard hat (Hard hat with muff-style hearing protectors.) (When
mowing around low-hanging branches I'll often bang my head. Wearing the
hard hat keeps blood out of the eyes. ;-) Hearing protection keeps my head
from ringing after I'm done.)
If it is dusty I'll wear a nose & mouth filter too.
I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen my picture in the local weekly wipe.
;-)
-- Mark
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:57:03 +0100, LRod
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>My dumb one was cleaning a shower
Now that's a nice way to refer to your partn.....oh...sorry.
In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least> wrote:
>
>Bleach is an acid, of course.
Ummm.... no, it's not. At a pH of 12, it's a fairly caustic _base_.
http://www.inchem.com.ph/naocl.htm
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
BUB 209 wrote:
> What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
> that you may never have been warned about? It might be helpful to others
> to know about them. Of course, common sense would tell you to ventilate
> adequately, but the degree of effects that these combinations might have
> could possibly disable you before you could react. For example, I had a
> fire going in a wood stove in a closed garage and spilled a can of formica
> adhesive. I immediately developed a severe headache and became so dizzy
> I fell to my knees and had to crawl out the door. Bad combination. And
> everybody knows enough not to use a kerosene heater without ventilation,
> I hope.
the worst experience I had was when I naively used a cutting
torch on a large sheet of galvanized metal. Not until much
later did I find out about heating galvanized metal would
produce poisonous fumes. I got immediately nauseated. Live
and learn.
I've also been exposed to phosgene gas on a number of
occasions, but that's an issue I KNEW was hazardous, but
unavoidable!
dave
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> BUB 209 wrote:
>
>> What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
<snippage>
> Not until much
> later did I find out about heating galvanized metal would
> produce poisonous fumes. I got immediately nauseated. Live
> and learn.
Or not. I think that BUB's point was, "If I can learn without the toxic
consequences, I'll be better off."
Some folks don't recover from these 'learning experiences'.
Patriarch,
who doesn't want to win a Darwin...
Mark Jerde wrote:
> LRod wrote:
>
>
>>Now I always wear a respirator when I clean the shower (boy do I look
>>stupid; starkers with rubber gloves and a respirator), although I try
>>to avoid using the bleach anymore, too.
>
>
> I've had people stare at me while I'm mowing my yard but since I'm over 40 I
> don't care. <g> My outfit:
> - Pants tucked into army boots. (Why have something catch in your pants
> leg while operating something that wants to take your toes off?)
> - Safety glasses. (About once a month in the summer something flies up
> from the mower & hits me in the face. Why risk the eyes?)
> - Mining hard hat (Hard hat with muff-style hearing protectors.) (When
> mowing around low-hanging branches I'll often bang my head. Wearing the
> hard hat keeps blood out of the eyes. ;-) Hearing protection keeps my head
> from ringing after I'm done.)
>
> If it is dusty I'll wear a nose & mouth filter too.
>
> I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen my picture in the local weekly wipe.
> ;-)
>
> -- Mark
>
>
I wouldn't laugh at you. A couple of years ago (or was it
last year?) I hit a 6" long bolt laying in the grass with my
power mower. It flew about 40 feet before it broke the
kitchen window. I found glass in every corner of the
kitchen and dining area. We were lucky SWMBO wasn't
standing by the sink. After that, I don't want my dog or
wife outside when I'm mowing.
dave
On 07 Jul 2004 12:16:22 GMT, [email protected] (BUB 209) wrote:
>What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
>that you may never have been warned about? It might be helpful to others
>to know about them. Of course, common sense would tell you to ventilate
>adequately, but the degree of effects that these combinations might have
>could possibly disable you before you could react.
My dumb one was cleaning a shower (no chance of ventilation) with
C-L-R to get rid of the lime and scale and then following up with
bleach to get rid of the skin oil stains. Hmmm, why are my eyes
burning? Hmm, acid and bleach? What does that produce? Why, chlorine
gas, of course.
Now I always wear a respirator when I clean the shower (boy do I look
stupid; starkers with rubber gloves and a respirator), although I try
to avoid using the bleach anymore, too.
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
On 07 Jul 2004 12:16:22 GMT, [email protected] (BUB 209) wrote:
>What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
>that you may never have been warned about?
Favorable.
JP
One other one I forgot about - don't drip
paint thinner into your pants pocket. I
did once, somehow (don't ask how)
and awhile later felt a strong burning
sensation on my leg. When I pulled
my pants down there was a red welt
in the unmistakable shape of the United
States Capitol building, from some
change that had been in there.
bub209 writes:
>One other one I forgot about - don't drip
>paint thinner into your pants pocket. I
>did once, somehow (don't ask how)
>and awhile later felt a strong burning
>sensation on my leg. When I pulled
>my pants down there was a red welt
>in the unmistakable shape of the United
>States Capitol building, from some
>change that had been in there.
Did that with avgas many moons ago. Got stuck driving the fueling truck at
Kaneohe Bay back in '59, for a few weeks. Used to use the drip off the nozzle
to fill my lighter. It was one of those clear plastic bottom lighters, this one
with a Marine Corps emblem floating in the fluid. I didn't get the screw tight,
got busy fueling copters and realized an hour later that my leg was on fire. Or
so it felt.
Charlie Self
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." Ernest Benn
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (BUB 209) wrote:
>One other one I forgot about - don't drip
>paint thinner into your pants pocket. I
>did once, somehow (don't ask how)
>and awhile later felt a strong burning
>sensation on my leg. When I pulled
>my pants down there was a red welt
>in the unmistakable shape of the United
>States Capitol building, from some
>change that had been in there.
What US coin has the Capitol on it?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
Anyone that has used a Zippo lighter for any length of time knows how that
is.
"BUB 209" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One other one I forgot about - don't drip
> paint thinner into your pants pocket. I
> did once, somehow (don't ask how)
> and awhile later felt a strong burning
> sensation on my leg. When I pulled
> my pants down there was a red welt
> in the unmistakable shape of the United
> States Capitol building, from some
> change that had been in there.
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:28:56 GMT, jo4hn <[email protected]> wrote:
>LRod wrote:
>
>> Now I always wear a respirator when I clean the shower (boy do I look
>> stupid; starkers with rubber gloves and a respirator), although I try
>> to avoid using the bleach anymore, too.
>>
>photos on apbw?
Consider this my supreme humanitarian act for the sake of the wreck:
NO!!
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Rob Jones wrote:
> Was that exposure to phosgene gas a result of spending time on a
> nuclear submarine???
>
> rob
>
>
> On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:18:24 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>BUB 209 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
>>>that you may never have been warned about? It might be helpful to others
>>>to know about them. Of course, common sense would tell you to ventilate
>>>adequately, but the degree of effects that these combinations might have
>>>could possibly disable you before you could react. For example, I had a
>>>fire going in a wood stove in a closed garage and spilled a can of formica
>>>adhesive. I immediately developed a severe headache and became so dizzy
>>>I fell to my knees and had to crawl out the door. Bad combination. And
>>>everybody knows enough not to use a kerosene heater without ventilation,
>>>I hope.
>>
>>the worst experience I had was when I naively used a cutting
>>torch on a large sheet of galvanized metal. Not until much
>>later did I find out about heating galvanized metal would
>>produce poisonous fumes. I got immediately nauseated. Live
>>and learn.
>>
>>I've also been exposed to phosgene gas on a number of
>>occasions, but that's an issue I KNEW was hazardous, but
>>unavoidable!
>>
>>dave
>
>
nope. Freon unavoidably run through combustion process.
dave
Andy Dingley wrote:
> Rob Jones <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>Was that exposure to phosgene gas a result of spending time on a
>>nuclear submarine???
>
>
> No, it was after he started posting to sci.engr.chem and pissed them
> off as much as he did us.
>
>
that's a bald faced lie, Dingy.
dave
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 14:22:01 +0800, Old Nick <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:57:03 +0100, LRod
><[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
>......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
>>My dumb one was cleaning a shower
>
>Now that's a nice way to refer to your partn.....oh...sorry.
Heh, heh.
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
patriarch < wrote:
> Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>BUB 209 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What has your experience been with random combinations of toxic fumes
>
> <snippage>
>
>>Not until much
>>later did I find out about heating galvanized metal would
>>produce poisonous fumes. I got immediately nauseated. Live
>>and learn.
>
>
> Or not. I think that BUB's point was, "If I can learn without the toxic
> consequences, I'll be better off."
>
> Some folks don't recover from these 'learning experiences'.
>
> Patriarch,
> who doesn't want to win a Darwin...
quite right. I had NO idea how toxic heated galv is! That's
just not something that comes up in everyday conversation.
Nor is it a part of public school curriculum.
dave