Minwax fast drying polyurethane dries to white haze

On 10/26/2015 11:36 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
> .
>>
>> Robert you might entertain checking with an "automotive" paint
>> supplier. I know that they typically sell 55 gal drums to body shops
>> and they do have different grades. We used to buy 55 gal drums of
>> thinner to clean the guns. We bought the better stuff for mixing to
>> the paint. Anyway they might be a bit less expensive since they deal
>> in higher volumes.
>
> I agree that this would likely be cheaper, but it's a lot more expensive
> than what you recall Leon. My price on gun wash has more than doubled over
> the past 5 years or so. Still cheaper than buying it by the gallon, but a
> lot more expensive than what is was only a short time ago.
>
Just comparing apples to oranges Mike. No doubt everything is more
expensive these days but a higher volume dealer is probably going to
have the better pricing.

<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Friday, February 13, 2009 at 10:00:36 AM UTC-8, bw wrote:
>> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
>> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
>> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
>> coated the wood in white soap.
>> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
>> the wood with white lead.
>>
>> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some kind
>> of reaction with the wood.
>> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
>> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was teak
>> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>>
>> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.
>


Sounds like moisture contamination.

On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I=20
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted=
=20
> the wood with white lead.
>=20
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some ki=
nd=20
> of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that=
=20
> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was t=
eak=20
> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>=20
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

I am having a similar problem with the same product. The first time I used=
it the room came out beautiful. The next room I did a week later is dull.=
I used a foam brush both times. I went and bought another can and went =
over it to get the sheen. Waited a week and did another room and the same =
problem again! Just no sheen at all! Maybe I have to buy small cans, so =
it's a new can each time. Depressing! I still have 4 rooms and a landing =
to go. I was wondering if I shouldn't be wiping my brush on the side of th=
e can as I go? I just don't understand!

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 5:48:22 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> woodchucker wrote:
>=20
> >
> > A long time ago, I sprayed regularly (lacquer (automotive) , dope
> > (airplanes) imron (airplanes (both models and full size), buses, some
> > cars) ) . Both for myself and for other people. Up here in the North
> > East when it gets humid, I would have problems with hazing. So a
> > little retarder would allow it to slow the drying process, and not
> > fully trap the humidity into the finish.
> > Without knowing the chemistry of it, I assumed it was :
> > By slow drying it would get pushed out in the gassing off process of
> > drying.
> > The retarder idea came from the supply shop I used to get all my
> > paints from.
>=20
> That explains a lot Jeff. Most of today's finishes are not lacquer - whi=
ch=20
> did indeed suffer those issues like you experienced back then. Not so mu=
ch=20
> today - not at all. I'm still thinking about the OP's post - if he used=
=20
> poly then I really can't understand why he experienced what he did,

I am with you on this one, Mike. In context, using the reference point set=
out in the post as using off the shelf polyurethane I haven't seen hazing.=
That is my personal experience from many years, but certainly doesn't mea=
n that will be everyone's experience. I shoot poly, high VOC alkyds, etc. =
with no concerning even when it is raining outside and I can shoot parts an=
d pieces in a garage. During the winter it rains a lot down here in South =
Texas (our version of snow) and during the summer we have have about 3 mont=
hs where temps hover around 100 during the day with humidity around 75%. D=
ifferent challenges for any finisher. Add to the fact that we sometimes ha=
ve 25 degree changes in a day, and you mixes change drastically from mornin=
g to afternoon.

So back to the question of fast dry Minwax. Even as a fast dry product, it=
is a 2 to four dry period when applied as a first coat, which means it fas=
t dry for poly, NOT for a finish. The super high performance product I sho=
ot on kitchen cabinets has a 20 minute dry/recoat. That's fast. Any mista=
kes in prep and your finish is fouled. Two to four hours of drying is a lo=
t more forgiving, and should be plenty of time for outgassing. The only tim=
e I have ever had any blush was when I was "pushing" lacquer finishes on ca=
binets I was shooting in a warehouse while it was raining outside and I was=
coating every thirty minutes. Four coats later, and there was blushing (h=
aze)in certain areas.

I would bet that the reason there was blushing on the Minwax finish (which =
I know many folks hate, but having shot/padded/brushed many gallons of it l=
ike)is incorrect surface prep. If you target isn't properly stored, the su=
rfaces can hold a great deal of humidity, making the surface nearly wet. A=
perfect storm would be to have a lot of humid weather and have your projec=
t out in a shop or garage that isn't under humidity control, and go out and=
finish it on the first sunny day. The wood is full of moisture, and a war=
m day will cause the poly to cure from the top down, trapping the outgassin=
g solvents.

As a tip to anyone that might still be reading this thread, if you are in a=
humid area and still need to do some poly finishing, get the slow dry prod=
ucts (hence the retarder Jeff referenced, although I know of none for over =
the counter poly for wood workers)that are the old fashioned oil based 6 to=
8 hour dry. Before you apply your finish, wipe it down well with cheap la=
cquer thinner and it will dry out the surfaces very well and should elimina=
te blushing from simply moisture contamination.

Robert=20

On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 11:49:14 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:

> "gun wash" for about $8 in a five gallon container.

Should read "$8 a gallon in a five gallon container, or $40 a container".

Robert

On 6/2/2014 6:37 AM, Swingman wrote:
> I have used two separate cans, satin and semi-gloss, almost every day
> this past week of this exact product, making stain samples for color
> decisions for a client, and have not had a problem.

One other thing. If you are using anything but "gloss", IOW a satin or
semi-gloss product, she simply may not have shaken the can enough.

When the direction say shake for two minutes, particularly with a
product that has particulates in it to cause a sheen, the need to
thoroughly mix the product is critical.

Go back, shake well and test it on a board to see if the the blush still
happens.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:44:17 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:

Mike, here's what I'm seeing, additional to the original post:

bw, the poster's follow-up posts:

"-----------------------------------------------
Doubt it, it's been very dry around here this winter. Wood stored on high
rack in garage.
Test piece was sanded as usual along the grain. Wood does "feel" moist or
greasy to touch.
It might be that I'm not that experienced with tropical wood.

Tested another piece with mineral oil and it really looks good so I'll skip
the poly."

Then he later posted:

"Excellent !! I do have a paint mixer bit, but it seemed aggressive for a
quart of poly.
My work area is a partially heated enclosed porch, the temp was lower than
RT.
My poly experience had been with "gloss" or "stain" and used right after
purchase.
Now I'm confident that poor mixing was my problem. Thanks for responding."

Sonny

On Friday, February 13, 2009 at 10:00:36 AM UTC-8, bw wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
> the wood with white lead.
>
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some kind
> of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was teak
> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

Last winter I had the same situation with Krylon sprays. I had a few
small projects and decided to spray bomb them with clear over Minwax
water base stain. The boxes I wanted to spray were a week dry but both
Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear & Trilpe-Thick Crystal Clear Glaze both
fogger up something terrible after following the directions to the
letter. Through e-mail communication the conclusion was humidity. I
live in Florida which is notorious for humidity but it was winter so
I'd say it was about 40 to 50%, which is considered low for here. The
plus side worth noting are the people at Krylon were very apologetic
and even offered to send me two new cans, which I guess I can still
get but for small projects I'll stick with Rust-Oleum Lacquer High
Luster, which I never had a problem with even in summer... Ray,

This sound like blush for sure which is moisture captured in the
finish before it has a chance to evaporate. I've only seen it with
lacquer but maybe this "fast dry" is acting like lacquer and skinning
over very fast, not allowing the moisture to evaoprate. With lacquer
we add a retarder to slow the skinning to allow the moisture to
escape. Typically only seen when you have high humidity.

A few possibilities are:
- Moisture in material. I guess unlikely if this was the first time it
was ever opened.
- Shelf life problem and something went bad in the can.
- High moisture content in the wood.

I am not familiar with this product. Is it water based? If it is oil
based, maybe try thinning it with some mineral spirits to maybe
increase the open time to let the moisture escape. If water based, is
there a thinner you can use, maybe flowtrol or something? Also, is
this semi-gloss or satin? Those sheen killers are just white paint
pigment so maybe somehow it got out of balance and you got all of it
in one coat.

On Feb 13, 10:00=A0am, "bw" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
> the wood with white lead.
>
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some ki=
nd
> of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was t=
eak
> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:35:04 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
>> Saw none of that ... go figure!
>=20
>=20


And here's another of his replies (to SonomoProducts), where he mentions th=
e can's lid.

"Oil based, satin. It's a quart can.
Now that I think about it, while I stirred the can to mix the bottom layer=
=20
for a while I looked at the lid and noticed it had the white soapy color, s=
o=20
then I touched the white with the foam brush first to see what it would do.=
=20
Some of the white was already soaked in the brush when I dipped it in the=
=20
main can.

I ended up sanding the white off and trying something else. Now I'll take=
=20
more time mixing, I didn't know that the sheen killers were white pigment."

______________________________

No telling what all may have been going on with his finishing, including a =
comparison to his previous project. The posts didn't give us enough info o=
r was vague, to me, to some degree, hence all my assuming. I may not have =
had access to all the posts, also, as with your not seeing the posts I saw.

Anyway, my idea of relevance, for any finishing, should include paying atte=
ntion to possible differing temps for wood, work place, poly, etc., to pre=
vent possible condensation problems.

Sonny

On 6/1/2014 5:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on an old walnut table. Previous coats had been minwax polyurathane fast drying rub-on with sanding in between. I live in a arid region of the country, so I know moisture is not a problem. The spray can of minwax left a milky, rough finish. I will sand it off tomorrow and go back to my hand rub routine. Very disappointing product and waste of money!


I have used two separate cans, satin and semi-gloss, almost every day
this past week of this exact product, making stain samples for color
decisions for a client, and have not had a problem.

Call Min-Wax.

FWIW, I do not sand or scuff in between coats with this product and have
yet to have a problem.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
> the wood with white lead.
>
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some
> kind
> of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was
> teak
> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

I am having a similar problem with the same product. The first time I used
it the room came out beautiful. The next room I did a week later is dull.
I used a foam brush both times. I went and bought another can and went
over it to get the sheen. Waited a week and did another room and the same
problem again! Just no sheen at all! Maybe I have to buy small cans, so
it's a new can each time. Depressing! I still have 4 rooms and a landing
to go. I was wondering if I shouldn't be wiping my brush on the side of the
can as I go? I just don't understand!

I didin't see it in any of the posts but you aren't by any chance using
satin or flat?

On 6/2/2014 8:31 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:

> Ain't it just the shits when ya miss something so obvious...

Why we buy toilet paper by the case at CostCo. ;)

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

This JUST happened to me? It is the oddest thing! I have never seen this =
happen before. I had stained my fireplace, waited a few days...then put on=
the polyurethane and it streaked it white...as if I had let water sit on i=
t or something. Did anyone ever give you a reason why this happened? I ha=
ve used the exact same polyurethane before and the product was great. I am=
so confused...hence I googled to see if anyone else has had this problem. =
Let me know if you have any answers.

On 10/26/2015 8:52 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/26/2015 1:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 2:01:26 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
>>
>>> Where do you get cheap lacquer thinner? Or maybe we differ in
>>> definitions of "cheap"? Last I bought was $16+/gallon.
>>>
>>> I also miss $1.49/gallon paint thinner <sigh>
>>
>> No kidding! I used to buy this stuff just called "mineral spirits"
>> that was didn't even have a name on it. Just a distributor. It came
>> in a blue and white can and was something like $1.99 a gallon,
>> occasionally on sale for less. I was warned NOT to thin paint or
>> coatings with it but it was dandy for cleaning brushes and equipment.
>> It smelled a lot like motor oil. But it was about .75 to a buck less
>> than real thinner.
>>
>> From time to time I find Sherwin Williams with one of their "economy"
>> brands like Sunnyvale. (Again, warned NOT to use this to thin good
>> product!) Sunnyvale will go on sale for about $9.99 a gallon,
>> sometimes less. StarTex at SW is usually around $14 or so a gallon,
>> but I wait until they have their 35% off sale and buy a couple of
>> gallons. I don't use it that much, so it lasts a while.
>
> Robert you might entertain checking with an "automotive" paint supplier.
> I know that they typically sell 55 gal drums to body shops and they do
> have different grades. We used to buy 55 gal drums of thinner to clean
> the guns. We bought the better stuff for mixing to the paint. Anyway
> they might be a bit less expensive since they deal in higher volumes.
>
>
>>
>> I have been surprised over the last year how much paint, solvents and
>> thinners have jumped in price, and for the life of me have no idea
>> why so much. Any ideas?
>>
>
> Probably environmental taxes.
>
>
>> Robert
>>
>
One last thing. Are you on SW's mailing list? I get adds a few times a
month listing sales. They very often offer 30~40% off of paints and 30%
off of painting supplies. And just for joining the email list you get
an automatic 10% discount even when there is no sale.

replying to bw, Marie wrote:
EASY fix! Use a blow dryer on it. It takes a little time, bit works like
magic! (and stays fixed)

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/minwax-fast-drying-polyurethane-dries-to-white-haze-450901-.htm

I had the same problem. Used a blow dryer.Takes the white out!

replying to bw, Rental wrote:
Sad to say it's just the Minwax....us
ed it for years with no prob...going on 3rd attempt at this job...used Minwax
twice after talking to their help line...switched to Rust-oleum...no
prob..Sherwin-williams bought Minwax....wonder what they have done

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/minwax-fast-drying-polyurethane-dries-to-white-haze-450901-.htm

On 6/3/2014 11:49 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:44:17 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> Mike, here's what I'm seeing, additional to the original post:
>
> bw, the poster's follow-up posts:
>
> "-----------------------------------------------
> Doubt it, it's been very dry around here this winter. Wood stored on high
> rack in garage.
> Test piece was sanded as usual along the grain. Wood does "feel" moist or
> greasy to touch.
> It might be that I'm not that experienced with tropical wood.
>
> Tested another piece with mineral oil and it really looks good so I'll skip
> the poly."
>
> Then he later posted:
>
> "Excellent !! I do have a paint mixer bit, but it seemed aggressive for a
> quart of poly.
> My work area is a partially heated enclosed porch, the temp was lower than
> RT.
> My poly experience had been with "gloss" or "stain" and used right after
> purchase.
> Now I'm confident that poor mixing was my problem. Thanks for responding."
>
> Sonny

Saw none of that ... go figure!


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Below is the post I responded to:

On 6/1/2014 5:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on an old walnut table. Previous coats had been minwax polyurathane fast drying rub-on with sanding in between. I live in a arid region of the country, so I know moisture is not a problem. The spray can of minwax left a milky, rough finish. I will sand it off tomorrow and go back to my hand rub routine. Very disappointing product and waste of money!
>


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 10/26/2015 1:48 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 2:01:26 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
>
>> Where do you get cheap lacquer thinner? Or maybe we differ in
>> definitions of "cheap"? Last I bought was $16+/gallon.
>>
>> I also miss $1.49/gallon paint thinner <sigh>
>
> No kidding! I used to buy this stuff just called "mineral spirits"
> that was didn't even have a name on it. Just a distributor. It came
> in a blue and white can and was something like $1.99 a gallon,
> occasionally on sale for less. I was warned NOT to thin paint or
> coatings with it but it was dandy for cleaning brushes and equipment.
> It smelled a lot like motor oil. But it was about .75 to a buck less
> than real thinner.
>
> From time to time I find Sherwin Williams with one of their "economy"
> brands like Sunnyvale. (Again, warned NOT to use this to thin good
> product!) Sunnyvale will go on sale for about $9.99 a gallon,
> sometimes less. StarTex at SW is usually around $14 or so a gallon,
> but I wait until they have their 35% off sale and buy a couple of
> gallons. I don't use it that much, so it lasts a while.

Robert you might entertain checking with an "automotive" paint supplier.
I know that they typically sell 55 gal drums to body shops and they do
have different grades. We used to buy 55 gal drums of thinner to clean
the guns. We bought the better stuff for mixing to the paint. Anyway
they might be a bit less expensive since they deal in higher volumes.


>
> I have been surprised over the last year how much paint, solvents and
> thinners have jumped in price, and for the life of me have no idea
> why so much. Any ideas?
>

Probably environmental taxes.


> Robert
>

On 6/2/2014 7:21 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
>>
>> I have used two separate cans, satin and semi-gloss, almost every day
>> this past week of this exact product, making stain samples for color
>> decisions for a client, and have not had a problem.
>>
>> Call Min-Wax.
>>
>> FWIW, I do not sand or scuff in between coats with this product and
>> have yet to have a problem.
>
> So now you've peaked my curiosity Karl. How long do you typically wait
> between coats?

For this product, I apply a thin coat and re-coat in _no more_ than two
hours, per manufacturer's specific instructions, normally 20 to 30 minutes.

I'm one of those who hates finishing so much that I actually, and
religiously, follow the manufacturer's directions to a "T".

To paraphrase their directions for recoating with this product: "if you
wait more than two hours to re-coat, you must then wait 72 hours, then
sand/scuff before re-coating."

Don't have that much time to waste ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/11/2016 8:36 AM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:29:39 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 13, 2009 at 10:00:36 AM UTC-8, bw wrote:
>>>> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
>>>> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
>>>> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
>>>> coated the wood in white soap.
>>>> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
>>>> the wood with white lead.
>>>>
>>>> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some kind
>>>> of reaction with the wood.
>>>> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
>>>> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was teak
>>>> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like moisture contamination.
>
> It's definitely not moisture in the wood. The wood has had at least since 2009 to dry out. ;-)
>
Yes it has been drying for years but if it was rained on it is no longer
dry.

On 3/11/2016 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 1:45:27 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Gordon Shumway wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's definitely not moisture in the wood. The wood has had at least since 2009 to dry out. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> I agree that this does not sound like a moisture issue to me. I have
>> had various woods react to finishes which was caused by the internal
>> oils of the wood reacting with the finish. I've seen many different
>> types of reaction, so that would probably be my first guess with no
>> other information.
>>
>> I would do a couple of things - I would try the finish on a completely
>> different piece of wood - a different type of wood. What is the result
>> of that test?
>>
>> I would try to find out exactly what your piece of wood really is. Teak
>> is a wood that is often mis-identified. Monkeypod is often called Teak
>> for example, and it's not.
>>
>> I'd try applying a sealing coat of shellac to a scrap of the wood and
>> then apply your finish. Any difference? If so, I'd go back to the
>> notion that it may be internal oils. Very well dried woods can and will
>> still weep oils out when a finish is applied. Shellac is a very good
>> universal sealing to deal with this.
>>
>> Get back with your results...
>>
>> --
>> -Mike-
>> [email protected]
>
> Mike,
>
> I think you missed the joke.
>
> This thread was originally started in 2009, thus the wood should have
> dried out by now. ;-)
>

I guess it wasn't fast drying poly.

Yeah, I missed it too.

On 3/11/2016 9:36 AM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

>>
>>
>> Sounds like moisture contamination.
>
> It's definitely not moisture in the wood. The wood has had at least since 2009 to dry out. ;-)
>

Unless it was stored in a very damp environment. Or the humidity was
extremely high.

I'd put a little of the poly on another piece of wood to see what
happens as the first step.

On 10/21/2015 7:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> This JUST happened to me? It is the oddest thing! I have never seen this happen before. I had stained my fireplace, waited a few days...then put on the polyurethane and it streaked it white...as if I had let water sit on it or something. Did anyone ever give you a reason why this happened? I have used the exact same polyurethane before and the product was great. I am so confused...hence I googled to see if anyone else has had this problem. Let me know if you have any answers.
>
well, it's fast drying. So it has no retarder, or has a lot of driers
(metals).

Generally is sounds like a humidity problem. Too high to use a fast
drying product. When the humidity is high, a retarder is generally used.
If you use a fast drying product, you get a haze.

--
Jeff

On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 1:45:27 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Gordon Shumway wrote:
>
> >
> > It's definitely not moisture in the wood. The wood has had at least since 2009 to dry out. ;-)
> >
>
> I agree that this does not sound like a moisture issue to me. I have
> had various woods react to finishes which was caused by the internal
> oils of the wood reacting with the finish. I've seen many different
> types of reaction, so that would probably be my first guess with no
> other information.
>
> I would do a couple of things - I would try the finish on a completely
> different piece of wood - a different type of wood. What is the result
> of that test?
>
> I would try to find out exactly what your piece of wood really is. Teak
> is a wood that is often mis-identified. Monkeypod is often called Teak
> for example, and it's not.
>
> I'd try applying a sealing coat of shellac to a scrap of the wood and
> then apply your finish. Any difference? If so, I'd go back to the
> notion that it may be internal oils. Very well dried woods can and will
> still weep oils out when a finish is applied. Shellac is a very good
> universal sealing to deal with this.
>
> Get back with your results...
>
> --
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

Mike,

I think you missed the joke.

This thread was originally started in 2009, thus the wood should have
dried out by now. ;-)

(Google Groups seems to have a habit of having threads that are extremely
old suddenly pop up again. I see in it a.h.r quite often. I think it might
have something to do with web forums that are "mirroring" usenet. Someone
on a forum finds an old thread via a search, they respond and suddenly
the thread becomes active again. Since GG and the forums are "putting and
taking" from usenet, the threads show up everywhere. In GG it's evident
that it's an old thread because the date is prominently displayed. I can't
speak to newsreader apps or web based forms. Maybe it's not that easy to
see that it is a really old (and probably dead) thread.)

On Monday, October 26, 2015 at 8:56:48 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

> One last thing. Are you on SW's mailing list? I get adds a few times a=
=20
> month listing sales. They very often offer 30~40% off of paints and 30%=
=20
> off of painting supplies. And just for joining the email list you get=20
> an automatic 10% discount even when there is no sale.

I buy enough that I usually get between 20 - 30% off with no sale. It depe=
nds on what products I am buying. For "pro" accounts, they will give me sp=
ecial deals on certain products, and they also have "pro" only discounts. =
For example,I redeemed an email only coupon for a product that had to be ch=
arged to my account there (proof I was who I said I was) that gave me buy o=
ne get one free on enamels. Just so happened I was painting the house I ha=
d gutted and rebuilt, so I did that for all the cabinets in the kitchen and=
all door, trims and moldings.

That's OK. SW's normal prices are so high they can easily afford it. When=
they have a sale of a non branded product, they can price things really we=
ll, and when I have a project coming up I try to keep an eye out for their =
specials.
Last time I bought lacquer thinner for example, I bought their generic mate=
rial
I like to call "gun wash" for about $8 in a five gallon container. Since I =
don't use that much anymore I have to be careful how much I buy as I don't =
like storing that really high VOC stuff with our huge fluctuations in heat.=
Out in my shed, I have had lacquer thinner blow the tops off the 5 gal co=
ntainers and the remaining material is ruined. Not to mention how dangerous=
that stuff is.

Robert

On Saturday, October 24, 2015 at 2:01:26 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
=20
> Where do you get cheap lacquer thinner? Or maybe we differ in definition=
s=20
> of "cheap"? Last I bought was $16+/gallon.
>=20
> I also miss $1.49/gallon paint thinner <sigh>

No kidding! I used to buy this stuff just called "mineral spirits" that wa=
s didn't even have a name on it. Just a distributor. It came in a blue an=
d white can and was something like $1.99 a gallon, occasionally on sale for=
less. I was warned NOT to thin paint or coatings with it but it was dandy=
for cleaning brushes and equipment. It smelled a lot like motor oil. But=
it was about .75 to a buck less than real thinner.

From time to time I find Sherwin Williams with one of their "economy" brand=
s like Sunnyvale. (Again, warned NOT to use this to thin good product!) S=
unnyvale will go on sale for about $9.99 a gallon, sometimes less. StarTex=
at SW is usually around $14 or so a gallon, but I wait until they have the=
ir 35% off sale and buy a couple of gallons. I don't use it that much, so =
it lasts a while.

I have been surprised over the last year how much paint, solvents and thinn=
ers have jumped in price, and for the life of me have no idea why so much. =
Any ideas?

Robert

Despite an old post, a relevant aspect (maybe) can be gleaned.=20

Stirring properly and following can instructions may have been a part of th=
e OP's problem, but I think moisture contributed to the issue.

The OP said the wood was stored in the garage (in essence, outdoors, cold t=
emps?), yet the work place was a "heated porch". He/she said the wood "...=
"feels" moist". He/she may not have allowed the wood's temp to acclimate t=
o the work place's higher temp, hence, there may (likely?) had been slight =
condensation on the wood surface. I assume, quick condensation formed on t=
he can's lid, also, apparently (again, I assume, by what the OP said) immed=
iately after opening.

In the OP's (I assume) colder climate location, plus the garage vs heated p=
orch immediate environment, there may have been a significant temp differen=
ce to cause some condensation, despite his/hers generally dry climate. A s=
ignificant temp difference, from garage to work place, can negate the gener=
al dry climate arena.

Op said he/she had used the product, before, with no problems. What might =
have been the difference in the two work scenarios, circumstances.... Weath=
er conditions, prep conditions, temp acclimation, something else, including=
can instructions?

Where was the poly stored? Was its temperature greatly different from the =
wood and/or porch area, also? ...and compare this to the previous "no prob=
lem" usage.

Sonny

Hi all,

I had the same issue. Fast-drying Minwax semi-gloass ruined my Cabinet doo=
r with white streaks. It was like a chemical reaction craziness. Whatever t=
he cause was, I used a hair dryer. With the hottest setting, I took time. =
With patience, the streaks went away like a miracle. It was after 24 hours=
of drying. If I had use the hot air earlier, it might have taken less tim=
e. But hot air works.

thanks

This is an EASY fix!! The same thing happened to some interior doors I had =
stained and applied the same polyurethane to. Just get a blow dryer and go =
over the hazy areas. It takes a little time, but works like magic and stays=
looking like new. Wish I would have known this years ago when I had the sa=
me problem, stripped down everything, and started over =F0=9F=98=AB

On 6/2/2014 7:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Now, having finally realized that you might just be talking about spraying
> with rattle cans (spraying to me of course, means a big ass compressor and
> really good spray guns...), I'm suddenly struck by one of those light bulb
> moments.

That was the most important part of the question the OP asked:

"Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on an
old walnut table. "

;>

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 8:28:41 PM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:

> well, it's fast drying. So it has no retarder, or has a lot of driers
> (metals).

Metals are sometimes used to assist drying but are more commonly used as hardeners. A world of difference.


> Generally is sounds like a humidity problem. Too high to use a fast
> drying product. When the humidity is high, a retarder is generally used.
> If you use a fast drying product, you get a haze.

Jeff, I have been doing this professionally a long time. Do you mind me asking you how you came up with that? That certainly has not been my experience.

Robert

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:17:08 PM UTC-5, Morgans wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
>
>
>
> I wonder if the OP figured out the problem sometime in the last 5 years?
>
> --
>
> Jim in NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>
> http://www.avast.com

Good info to have, though, in case this ever comes up, which apparently it does from time to time.

replying to bw, Craig wrote:
This is not an answer to the question. But I'm have the same problem. I'm
refinishing a table and two end tables. My daughter wanted them painted a new
color, so I am using Rust-oleum (espresso) with a wash . The set is over 50
years old, so nice and dry. The paint was no problems, looked great. I
allowed the paint to dry for about 5 days. I live in the Arizona desert the
temperature has been in the high 80's to mid 90's. The water based
polyurethane was stirred very well (nothing on the bottom of the can). I used
a brush to apply, and found it foaming every where, I mean real bad. Do they
add a foaming agent to the product? I changed over and used a cloth to apply
the rest and it seemed to work much better. I waited about 3 hours, I did a
light sanding and applied a second coat and allowed to dry over night. The
next day, I have white patches all over the place. Looks like garbage. Can I
put and oil based polyurethane over the top ? Or do I have to start all over
again and wast about 30 hours of time ? I have used Minwax for years and never
had this this kind of problems. Is it something I did wrong or is it the
product? HELP!
Thanks Craig

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/woodworking/minwax-fast-drying-polyurethane-dries-to-white-haze-450901-.htm

Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on an old =
walnut table. Previous coats had been minwax polyurathane fast drying rub-o=
n with sanding in between. I live in a arid region of the country, so I kno=
w moisture is not a problem. The spray can of minwax left a milky, rough fi=
nish. I will sand it off tomorrow and go back to my hand rub routine. Very =
disappointing product and waste of money!

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on an old
> walnut table. Previous coats had been minwax polyurathane fast drying rub-on
> with sanding in between. I live in a arid region of the country, so I know
> moisture is not a problem. The spray can of minwax left a milky, rough
> finish. I will sand it off tomorrow and go back to my hand rub routine. Very
> disappointing product and waste of money!


How far away did you hold the can? If too faraway, it will definitely
leave a rough finish. Not sure about milky, but rough for sure.

On Tuesday, 14 June 2016 21:53:40 UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> Hi all,
>=20
> I had the same issue. Fast-drying Minwax semi-gloass ruined my Cabinet d=
oor with white streaks. It was like a chemical reaction craziness. Whatever=
the cause was, I used a hair dryer. With the hottest setting, I took time=
. With patience, the streaks went away like a miracle. It was after 24 hou=
rs of drying. If I had use the hot air earlier, it might have taken less t=
ime. But hot air works.
>=20
> thanks

After a week of babying a dining room set to get it just perfect before var=
nishing, we applied this MinWax product and.... white streaks everywhere! T=
hanks to Google and all of you here, I did as you suggested, and used a hai=
rdryer on the varnish less than an hour after the streaks appeared. It took=
only a few minutes, it now looks beautiful! Thank you to all of you who po=
st and share your experience!

>Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
>Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
>Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
>coated the wood in white soap.
>What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
>the wood with white lead.
>bw

I had the exact same thing happen to me when finishing three computer
desks. My first coat went fine but it "fogged" white during the second
coat. Even though it was temperate and dry inside, the temperature and
humidity outside was high and apparently some of the moisture seeped
into the poly. I ended up dipping the desktops to remove the poly and
recoating a week later and they came out fine.

`Casper

On Feb 13, 10:58=A0pm, "bw" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:3024a3af-70d8-419e-8307-b81fef8406c7@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> This sound like blush for sure which is moisture captured in the
> finish before it has a chance to evaporate. I've only seen it with
> lacquer but maybe this "fast dry" is acting like lacquer and skinning
> over very fast, not allowing the moisture to evaoprate. With lacquer
> we add a retarder to slow the skinning to allow the moisture to
> escape. Typically only seen when you have high humidity.
>
> A few possibilities are:
> - Moisture in material. I guess unlikely if this was the first time it
> was ever opened.
> - Shelf life problem and something went bad in the can.
> - High moisture content in the wood.
>
> I am not familiar with this product. Is it water based? If it is oil
> based, maybe try thinning it with some mineral spirits to maybe
> increase the open time to let the moisture escape. If water based, is
> there a thinner you can use, maybe flowtrol or something? Also, is
> this semi-gloss or satin? Those sheen killers are just white paint
> pigment so maybe somehow it got out of balance and you got all of it
> in one coat.

As usual, Sr. Sonoma is on his game. FWIW, I agree.

> I ended up sanding the white off and trying something else. Now I'll take
> more time mixing, I didn't know that the sheen killers were white pigment=
.

Actually, the shine killers that break the reflectivity are usually
some type of silica, flat ground to the manufacturer's specs.

These will easily collect on the bottom of the can if the material is
old, or in my experience, been exposed to a lot of different temp
changes. (For example, here we have had some days lately where the
overnight temp was 35 - 40 degrees different from the day temps).

Do yourself a favor. Go to the hardware store and buy yourself a
paint stirring gizmo with the spiral configuration on the end. Put
that on the end of your drill and stir your material, no matter what
it is, for at least three minutes in a quart sized can. More for a
gallon, even more for a five gallon.

Don't whip any air into your material when you are stirring. Air will
make bubble in your finish, even after application. A low mix speed
works fine. When the semi gloss, satin clear coat is properly mixed
it will look like clear amber in the can. Some clear flats look a bit
cloudy, but consistent. Never white.

Robert

On Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 12:13:43 PM UTC-7, [email protected] wr=
ote:
> This is an EASY fix!! The same thing happened to some interior doors I ha=
d stained and applied the same polyurethane to. Just get a blow dryer and g=
o over the hazy areas. It takes a little time, but works like magic and sta=
ys looking like new. Wish I would have known this years ago when I had the =
same problem, stripped down everything, and started over =F0=9F=98=AB


Thank you for this tip!! I had a lot of white left over on some night stand=
s I'm working on and I panicked, thinking I would have to start from scratc=
h. I'm so glad I read this post - the hair dryer was such an easy fix!

On 10/22/2015 12:02 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 8:28:41 PM UTC-5, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> well, it's fast drying. So it has no retarder, or has a lot of driers
>> (metals).
>
> Metals are sometimes used to assist drying but are more commonly used as hardeners. A world of difference.
>
>
>> Generally is sounds like a humidity problem. Too high to use a fast
>> drying product. When the humidity is high, a retarder is generally used.
>> If you use a fast drying product, you get a haze.
>
> Jeff, I have been doing this professionally a long time. Do you mind me asking you how you came up with that? That certainly has not been my experience.
>
> Robert
>

A long time ago, I sprayed regularly (lacquer (automotive) , dope
(airplanes) imron (airplanes (both models and full size), buses, some
cars) ) . Both for myself and for other people. Up here in the North
East when it gets humid, I would have problems with hazing. So a little
retarder would allow it to slow the drying process, and not fully trap
the humidity into the finish.
Without knowing the chemistry of it, I assumed it was :
By slow drying it would get pushed out in the gassing off process of drying.

The retarder idea came from the supply shop I used to get all my paints
from.

--
Jeff

bw wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I
> painted the wood with white lead.
>=20
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be
> some kind of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods
> that could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I
> thought was teak but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>=20
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

Could there be moisture in the sample wood???

P D Q

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3024a3af-70d8-419e-8307-b81fef8406c7@i24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
This sound like blush for sure which is moisture captured in the
finish before it has a chance to evaporate. I've only seen it with
lacquer but maybe this "fast dry" is acting like lacquer and skinning
over very fast, not allowing the moisture to evaoprate. With lacquer
we add a retarder to slow the skinning to allow the moisture to
escape. Typically only seen when you have high humidity.

A few possibilities are:
- Moisture in material. I guess unlikely if this was the first time it
was ever opened.
- Shelf life problem and something went bad in the can.
- High moisture content in the wood.

I am not familiar with this product. Is it water based? If it is oil
based, maybe try thinning it with some mineral spirits to maybe
increase the open time to let the moisture escape. If water based, is
there a thinner you can use, maybe flowtrol or something? Also, is
this semi-gloss or satin? Those sheen killers are just white paint
pigment so maybe somehow it got out of balance and you got all of it
in one coat.

Oil based, satin. It's a quart can.
Now that I think about it, while I stirred the can to mix the bottom layer
for a while I looked at the lid and noticed it had the white soapy color, so
then I touched the white with the foam brush first to see what it would do.
Some of the white was already soaked in the brush when I dipped it in the
main can.

I ended up sanding the white off and trying something else. Now I'll take
more time mixing, I didn't know that the sheen killers were white pigment.

"PDQ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
bw wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I
> painted the wood with white lead.
>
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be
> some kind of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods
> that could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I
> thought was teak but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

Could there be moisture in the sample wood???

P D Q
-----------------------------------------------
Doubt it, it's been very dry around here this winter. Wood stored on high
rack in garage.
Test piece was sanded as usual along the grain. Wood does "feel" moist or
greasy to touch.
It might be that I'm not that experienced with tropical wood.

Tested another piece with mineral oil and it really looks good so I'll skip
the poly.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f739840b-4afe-4c63-a172-18575e71bae2@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

Actually, the shine killers that break the reflectivity are usually
some type of silica, flat ground to the manufacturer's specs.

These will easily collect on the bottom of the can if the material is
old, or in my experience, been exposed to a lot of different temp
changes. (For example, here we have had some days lately where the
overnight temp was 35 - 40 degrees different from the day temps).

Do yourself a favor. Go to the hardware store and buy yourself a
paint stirring gizmo with the spiral configuration on the end. Put
that on the end of your drill and stir your material, no matter what
it is, for at least three minutes in a quart sized can. More for a
gallon, even more for a five gallon.

Don't whip any air into your material when you are stirring. Air will
make bubble in your finish, even after application. A low mix speed
works fine. When the semi gloss, satin clear coat is properly mixed
it will look like clear amber in the can. Some clear flats look a bit
cloudy, but consistent. Never white.

Robert

Excellent !! I do have a paint mixer bit, but it seemed aggressive for a
quart of poly.
My work area is a partially heated enclosed porch, the temp was lower than
RT.
My poly experience had been with "gloss" or "stain" and used right after
purchase.
Now I'm confident that poor mixing was my problem. Thanks for responding.

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:29:39 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:

><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Friday, February 13, 2009 at 10:00:36 AM UTC-8, bw wrote:
>>> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
>>> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
>>> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
>>> coated the wood in white soap.
>>> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
>>> the wood with white lead.
>>>
>>> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some kind
>>> of reaction with the wood.
>>> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
>>> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was teak
>>> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>>>
>>> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.
>>
>
>
>Sounds like moisture contamination.

It's definitely not moisture in the wood. The wood has had at least since 2009 to dry out. ;-)

[email protected] wrote:
> On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
>> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
>> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
>> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like
>> I coated the wood in white soap.
>> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I
>> painted the wood with white lead.
>>
>> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be
>> some kind of reaction with the wood.
>> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods
>> that could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I
>> thought was teak but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>>
>> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.
>
> I am having a similar problem with the same product. The first time
> I used it the room came out beautiful. The next room I did a week
> later is dull. I used a foam brush both times. I went and bought
> another can and went over it to get the sheen. Waited a week and did
> another room and the same problem again! Just no sheen at all!
> Maybe I have to buy small cans, so it's a new can each time.
> Depressing! I still have 4 rooms and a landing to go. I was
> wondering if I shouldn't be wiping my brush on the side of the can as
> I go? I just don't understand!

Boy, that sure does sound like oxidation in the can. I assume you stirred
properly before each application. I'm guessing that the fast dry
characteristic is what's biting you. Watch for comments from Robert
(Nailshooter). He'll have definitive commentary if he does reply.
Otherwise, I'd go with your plan and assume it's an oxidation issue.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:

I wonder if the OP figured out the problem sometime in the last 5 years?
--
Jim in NC




---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Moisture problem?
In the can, or brush, or humidity?
john

wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
> the wood with white lead.
>
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some
> kind
> of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was
> teak
> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

I am having a similar problem with the same product. The first time I used
it the room came out beautiful. The next room I did a week later is dull.
I used a foam brush both times. I went and bought another can and went
over it to get the sheen. Waited a week and did another room and the same
problem again! Just no sheen at all! Maybe I have to buy small cans, so
it's a new can each time. Depressing! I still have 4 rooms and a landing
to go. I was wondering if I shouldn't be wiping my brush on the side of the
can as I go? I just don't understand!

Morgans wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
>
> I wonder if the OP figured out the problem sometime in the last 5
> years?

Geeze - I never notice these date stamps.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 4/27/2014 5:43 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if the OP figured out the problem sometime in the last 5
>> years?
>
> Geeze - I never notice these date stamps.

Recently in particular, if one sees a thread appear in your newsreader
already bearing the RE: you can almost bet it's an ancient one that came
to life from google...

I've come to just ignore 'em entirely unless/until somebody makes a new
comment that interests.

Here, just in passing, as Michael notes in his response, there is
something of interest. My experience w/ the Minwax fast dry and blended
poly's is I won't touch 'em going forward.

I've used the traditional Minwax oil stains and rubbing oil products
with great success for 30+ yr as well as their early conventional poly's
(altho I don't use poly much at all) and recommend them highly. The
newer "labor saving" products I think are misguided and not worth
bringing home.

$0.02, imo, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

dpb wrote:

>
> I've used the traditional Minwax oil stains and rubbing oil products
> with great success for 30+ yr as well as their early conventional
> poly's (altho I don't use poly much at all) and recommend them
> highly. The newer "labor saving" products I think are misguided and
> not worth bringing home.
>

That seems to be true. It's hard to believe that anything that is
formulated to be fast drying, can at the same time, have a long shelf life -
unless it's a catalyzed finish. Something has to give and once you
introduce air into the can, the product is going to start doing exactly what
it was designed to do.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Baron wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
>> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
>> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
>> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like
>> I coated the wood in white soap.
>> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I
>> painted the wood with white lead.
>>
>> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be
>> some kind
>> of reaction with the wood.
>> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods
>> that could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I
>> thought was teak
>> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>>
>> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.
>
> I am having a similar problem with the same product. The first time
> I used it the room came out beautiful. The next room I did a week
> later is dull. I used a foam brush both times. I went and bought
> another can and went over it to get the sheen. Waited a week and did
> another room and the same problem again! Just no sheen at all! Maybe I
> have to buy small cans, so it's a new can each time. Depressing! I still
> have 4 rooms and a landing to go. I was
> wondering if I shouldn't be wiping my brush on the side of the can as
> I go? I just don't understand!
> I didin't see it in any of the posts but you aren't by any chance
> using satin or flat?

Don't expect a reply. Like you, I replied earlier, not realizing that the
post I was replying to was something like 5 years old. Good chance the
poster is not still looking for responses... That said - I doubt it's a
matter of satin or flat. She said the same product worked as she desired on
a previous project. And... the description of the problem is not one of a
satin or flat finish versus a gloss finish.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Here, just in passing, as Michael notes in his response, there is
> something of interest. My experience w/ the Minwax fast dry and blended
> poly's is I won't touch 'em going forward.
>
No doubt.

My experience suggest that the clear was put over something like stain that
was not completely outgassed, or the clear was put on or allowed to dry in a
high humidity environment.
--
Jim in NC


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Morgans wrote:
> "dpb" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Here, just in passing, as Michael notes in his response, there is
>> something of interest. My experience w/ the Minwax fast dry and
>> blended poly's is I won't touch 'em going forward.
>>
> No doubt.
>
> My experience suggest that the clear was put over something like
> stain that was not completely outgassed, or the clear was put on or
> allowed to dry in a high humidity environment.

That's a common problem with lacquers, but no so common with poly.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

[email protected] wrote:

> Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on
> an old walnut table. Previous coats had been minwax polyurathane fast
> drying rub-on with sanding in between. I live in a arid region of the
> country, so I know moisture is not a problem. The spray can of minwax
> left a milky, rough finish. I will sand it off tomorrow and go back
> to my hand rub routine. Very disappointing product and waste of
> money!

Your best advise... call mixwax. Not trying to be wise - call them.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Mike Marlow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on
>> an old walnut table. Previous coats had been minwax polyurathane fast
>> drying rub-on with sanding in between. I live in a arid region of the
>> country, so I know moisture is not a problem. The spray can of minwax
>> left a milky, rough finish. I will sand it off tomorrow and go back
>> to my hand rub routine. Very disappointing product and waste of
>> money!
>
> Your best advise... call mixwax. Not trying to be wise - call them.

Sorry for replying to my own reply, but did you follow the diredtions for
re-coating? Did you scuff the surface before applying your spray product?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:

>
> I have used two separate cans, satin and semi-gloss, almost every day
> this past week of this exact product, making stain samples for color
> decisions for a client, and have not had a problem.
>
> Call Min-Wax.
>
> FWIW, I do not sand or scuff in between coats with this product and
> have yet to have a problem.

So now you've peaked my curiosity Karl. How long do you typically wait
between coats?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:

> One other thing. If you are using anything but "gloss", IOW a satin or
> semi-gloss product, she simply may not have shaken the can enough.
>
> When the direction say shake for two minutes, particularly with a
> product that has particulates in it to cause a sheen, the need to
> thoroughly mix the product is critical.
>

Absolutely correct - and Karl claims he don't know nuthin' 'bout spraying
finishes... I can only say that I strenuously agree with him on this! I
learned a long time ago that the smart guys that they hire to come up with
this crap know a lot more than me, and so I trust in what they say. Of
course, I learned that the hard way...

> Go back, shake well and test it on a board to see if the the blush
> still happens.

I'll bet it does not. Poly does not generally blush. That's more a lacquer
characteristic. Even with lacquer, it's related to humidity and that is not
an issue for this poster. I have to believe (at first guess with minimal
information), that the problem really does lie in the proper use of the
product.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:
> On 6/2/2014 7:21 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have used two separate cans, satin and semi-gloss, almost every
>>> day this past week of this exact product, making stain samples for
>>> color decisions for a client, and have not had a problem.
>>>
>>> Call Min-Wax.
>>>
>>> FWIW, I do not sand or scuff in between coats with this product and
>>> have yet to have a problem.
>>
>> So now you've peaked my curiosity Karl. How long do you typically
>> wait between coats?
>
> For this product, I apply a thin coat and re-coat in _no more_ than
> two hours, per manufacturer's specific instructions, normally 20 to
> 30 minutes.
> I'm one of those who hates finishing so much that I actually, and
> religiously, follow the manufacturer's directions to a "T".
>
> To paraphrase their directions for recoating with this product: "if
> you wait more than two hours to re-coat, you must then wait 72 hours,
> then sand/scuff before re-coating."
>
> Don't have that much time to waste ...

In the course of this entire dialog, I just became aware of one of those
perspective things. When I think of poly, I think brush application -
because that's how I usually apply poly to wood. I'm systematic in how I do
that - very wet coats, spread - not brushed on the work piece. So - (my
bad...) that's what I think of by default when poly topics come up. I guess
I haven't figured out yet, how to think outside of my own box...

Now, having finally realized that you might just be talking about spraying
with rattle cans (spraying to me of course, means a big ass compressor and
really good spray guns...), I'm suddenly struck by one of those light bulb
moments.

D'Oh - sometimes it takes so damned long for the obvious to become clear...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:
> On 6/2/2014 7:42 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Now, having finally realized that you might just be talking about
>> spraying with rattle cans (spraying to me of course, means a big ass
>> compressor and really good spray guns...), I'm suddenly struck by
>> one of those light bulb moments.
>
> That was the most important part of the question the OP asked:
>
> "Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on
> an old walnut table. "
>

Ain't it just the shits when ya miss something so obvious...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

I think I'm getting old or something...

Swingman wrote:
> On 6/2/2014 8:31 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Ain't it just the shits when ya miss something so obvious...
>
> Why we buy toilet paper by the case at CostCo. ;)

And to think - people ask me what that tractor trailer parked behind the
house is all about...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Sonny wrote:
> Despite an old post, a relevant aspect (maybe) can be gleaned.
>
> Stirring properly and following can instructions may have been a part
> of the OP's problem, but I think moisture contributed to the issue.

Maybe, but...

>
> The OP said the wood was stored in the garage (in essence, outdoors,
> cold temps?), yet the work place was a "heated porch". He/she said
> the wood "... "feels" moist". He/she may not have allowed the wood's
> temp to acclimate to the work place's higher temp, hence, there may
> (likely?) had been slight condensation on the wood surface. I
> assume, quick condensation formed on the can's lid, also, apparently
> (again, I assume, by what the OP said) immediately after opening.
>

Just to set the record... this is what my newsreader shows as the original
post (despite it being long aged...). I don't see anything in the OP that
talks about storage in the garage, heated porches, cold temps, feeling
moist, etc. Are you referencing a different post when you refer to the OP?

On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
> Purchased last fall, opened yesterday. Stirred as usual, looked ok.
> Applied with foam brush on test piece of medium pored teak-like wood.
> Set aside at room temperature and it immediately starts to look like I
> coated the wood in white soap.
> What the hey. After a couple hours no change. Almost looks like I painted
> the wood with white lead.
>
> I've used this produce before without problems, but it "might" be some
> kind
> of reaction with the wood.
> The wood was purchased at a farm sale in a batch of other hard woods that
> could have been over 30 years old. Some mahogany and what I thought was
> teak
> but I can't imagine what the heck happened.
>
> Maybe return the can to the store and try another batch.

************* End of Included Text ******************


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:44:17 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> Mike, here's what I'm seeing, additional to the original post:
>
> bw, the poster's follow-up posts:
>

<Snip included text from posts that do not show up on my server...>

Go figure. I looked back through the entire thread and I do not see the
posts that you included in this reply. Gotta love the way this stuff works
sometimes...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Swingman wrote:

>
> Lo and behold ... after making a few normal passes with the spray
> pattern to vertical, I changed the spray pattern to horizontal and the
> spray immediately came out milky/cloudy on the surface of the piece.
>
> (Obviously a _moisture related_ phenomenon - most likely due to the
> expansion of the compressed gas changing the relative temperature
> (PV=nRT) of the different nozzle passages, then reacting with the hot
> humid air).
>
> Didn't last long, but my initial reaction, and remembering this
> thread, was WTF?? ;)

Guessing here, but maybe close...but a little different. Not so much
moisture related, as simply related to the atomization of the product. When
you switch over, it probably takes a short bit for the nozzle to properly
re-adjust for proper atomization. Just a guess...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

One can never really get a good paint job in humidity. Paint haze
or eyes... Modern paints are often a plastic form or enamel form
of water based paint. Both can seal and trap under the sealed surface.

We have some 'dried' enamel paint that is poly based and it is still
sticky and out-gasses. Just not much there good.

The underlying material might be the problem also. Wrong paint for the
job. e.g. painting plastic without plastic qualified paint.

Martin

On 10/22/2015 5:47 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> woodchucker wrote:
>
>>
>> A long time ago, I sprayed regularly (lacquer (automotive) , dope
>> (airplanes) imron (airplanes (both models and full size), buses, some
>> cars) ) . Both for myself and for other people. Up here in the North
>> East when it gets humid, I would have problems with hazing. So a
>> little retarder would allow it to slow the drying process, and not
>> fully trap the humidity into the finish.
>> Without knowing the chemistry of it, I assumed it was :
>> By slow drying it would get pushed out in the gassing off process of
>> drying.
>> The retarder idea came from the supply shop I used to get all my
>> paints from.
>
> That explains a lot Jeff. Most of today's finishes are not lacquer - which
> did indeed suffer those issues like you experienced back then. Not so much
> today - not at all. I'm still thinking about the OP's post - if he used
> poly then I really can't understand why he experienced what he did,
>

On 10/21/2015 7:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> This JUST happened to me? It is the oddest thing! I have never seen this happen before. I had stained my fireplace, waited a few days...then put on the polyurethane and it streaked it white...as if I had let water sit on it or something. Did anyone ever give you a reason why this happened? I have used the exact same polyurethane before and the product was great. I am so confused...hence I googled to see if anyone else has had this problem. Let me know if you have any answers.
>
I had this problem with a table top, The way I fixed it was to sand the
top down to nearly bare wood, wipe it good with mineral spirts, and let
dry for several days. Then used a colored (pecan) varnish to finish the
table. I have the first coat of varnish on the table, it has been
drying for a couple days with no white specks

I beleive that some thing in the wood, stain and the clear varnish was
being extracted to create the whiteness. I don't know it was the Minwax
varnish, Minwax stain, or some thing coming out of the wood, or a
combination of the three.

woodchucker wrote:

>
> A long time ago, I sprayed regularly (lacquer (automotive) , dope
> (airplanes) imron (airplanes (both models and full size), buses, some
> cars) ) . Both for myself and for other people. Up here in the North
> East when it gets humid, I would have problems with hazing. So a
> little retarder would allow it to slow the drying process, and not
> fully trap the humidity into the finish.
> Without knowing the chemistry of it, I assumed it was :
> By slow drying it would get pushed out in the gassing off process of
> drying.
> The retarder idea came from the supply shop I used to get all my
> paints from.

That explains a lot Jeff. Most of today's finishes are not lacquer - which
did indeed suffer those issues like you experienced back then. Not so much
today - not at all. I'm still thinking about the OP's post - if he used
poly then I really can't understand why he experienced what he did,

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

[email protected] wrote:

> Before you apply your
> finish, wipe it down well with cheap lacquer thinner and it will dry
> out the surfaces very well and should eliminate blushing from simply
> moisture contamination.

Where do you get cheap lacquer thinner? Or maybe we differ in definitions
of "cheap"? Last I bought was $16+/gallon.

I also miss $1.49/gallon paint thinner <sigh>

Leon wrote:

.
>
> Robert you might entertain checking with an "automotive" paint
> supplier. I know that they typically sell 55 gal drums to body shops
> and they do have different grades. We used to buy 55 gal drums of
> thinner to clean the guns. We bought the better stuff for mixing to
> the paint. Anyway they might be a bit less expensive since they deal
> in higher volumes.

I agree that this would likely be cheaper, but it's a lot more expensive
than what you recall Leon. My price on gun wash has more than doubled over
the past 5 years or so. Still cheaper than buying it by the gallon, but a
lot more expensive than what is was only a short time ago.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Gordon Shumway wrote:

>
> It's definitely not moisture in the wood. The wood has had at least since 2009 to dry out. ;-)
>

I agree that this does not sound like a moisture issue to me. I have
had various woods react to finishes which was caused by the internal
oils of the wood reacting with the finish. I've seen many different
types of reaction, so that would probably be my first guess with no
other information.

I would do a couple of things - I would try the finish on a completely
different piece of wood - a different type of wood. What is the result
of that test?

I would try to find out exactly what your piece of wood really is. Teak
is a wood that is often mis-identified. Monkeypod is often called Teak
for example, and it's not.

I'd try applying a sealing coat of shellac to a scrap of the wood and
then apply your finish. Any difference? If so, I'd go back to the
notion that it may be internal oils. Very well dried woods can and will
still weep oils out when a finish is applied. Shellac is a very good
universal sealing to deal with this.

Get back with your results...

--
-Mike-
[email protected]

DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 1:45:27 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:


> I think you missed the joke.
>
> This thread was originally started in 2009, thus the wood should have
> dried out by now. ;-)
>

Holy cow - I certainly missed that! Walking away a little embarrassed
just now...


--
-Mike-
[email protected]

On 6/2/2014 6:37 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 6/1/2014 5:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Just bought a spray can of minwax polyurathane for my final coat on an
>> old walnut table. Previous coats had been minwax polyurathane fast
>> drying rub-on with sanding in between. I live in a arid region of the
>> country, so I know moisture is not a problem. The spray can of minwax
>> left a milky, rough finish. I will sand it off tomorrow and go back to
>> my hand rub routine. Very disappointing product and waste of money!
>
>
> I have used two separate cans, satin and semi-gloss, almost every day
> this past week of this exact product, making stain samples for color
> decisions for a client, and have not had a problem.

Funny thing ... I was using these same rattle cans yesterday to do
another couple of stain color samples and decided to change the spray
pattern from vertical to horizontal; something that can be done with
these new rattle cans with a twist of the nozzle, as you would expect
with today's technology.

Lo and behold ... after making a few normal passes with the spray
pattern to vertical, I changed the spray pattern to horizontal and the
spray immediately came out milky/cloudy on the surface of the piece.

(Obviously a _moisture related_ phenomenon - most likely due to the
expansion of the compressed gas changing the relative temperature
(PV=nRT) of the different nozzle passages, then reacting with the hot
humid air).

Didn't last long, but my initial reaction, and remembering this thread,
was WTF?? ;)

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/27/2014 9:05 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 4/27/2014 5:43 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Morgans wrote:
>>> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, February 13, 2009 12:00:36 PM UTC-6, bw wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder if the OP figured out the problem sometime in the last 5
>>> years?
>>
>> Geeze - I never notice these date stamps.
>
> Recently in particular, if one sees a thread appear in your newsreader
> already bearing the RE: you can almost bet it's an ancient one that came
> to life from google...
>
> I've come to just ignore 'em entirely unless/until somebody makes a new
> comment that interests.
>
> Here, just in passing, as Michael notes in his response, there is
> something of interest. My experience w/ the Minwax fast dry and blended
> poly's is I won't touch 'em going forward.
>
> I've used the traditional Minwax oil stains and rubbing oil products
> with great success for 30+ yr as well as their early conventional poly's
> (altho I don't use poly much at all) and recommend them highly. The
> newer "labor saving" products I think are misguided and not worth
> bringing home.
>
> $0.02, imo, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...
>
> --
>
>

My biggest clue is if the OP of the RE thread is not recognized.