I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So fast
in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to dry,
making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time a little?
Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up helps a little,
but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in the day. Thanks.
--
Paul
In article
<[email protected]>,
Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 10, 1:29 pm, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So fast
> > in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to dry,
> > making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time a little?
> > Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up helps a little,
> > but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in the day. Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Paul
>
> Work fast and let the shellac have time to dry hard between
> coats. Giveaway is bits of lint from the rag in your shellac.
> A couple of drops of mineral, olive, or walnut oil on
> the pad will stop it from sticking. Ridges or other defects
> can be wet sanded out easily with 320 and paint thinner.
Didn't O'Deen post a link to a video a few years back of him padding
shellac onto a mantel (or table top)?
Anyone have a URL?
On Sep 10, 3:54=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/10/2011 12:29 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> > I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So
> > fast in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to
> > dry, making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time
> > a little? Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up
> > helps a little, but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in
> > the day. Thanks.
>
> Any time you pad shellac you obviously need to do small areas.
>
> On hot humid days I spray a 1 1/2# cut shellac, cut with 99% isopropyl
> alcohol to retard the tendency to blush.
>
> Might want to give that a try. You should be able to get it at any pharma=
cy.
>
> IME, do NOT use the isopropyl "rubbing alcohol" as it has a higher water
> content.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
Not to mention 'rubbing alcohol' often has lanolin (sheep's fat) in it
as well.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I said not to mention it.
"Paul" wrote:
>I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast.
>So fast in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before
>starting to dry, making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to
>retard drying time a little?
----------------------------------------
Buy a gallon of denatured alcohol and cut the shellac to 1 pound cut.
You will find the shellac/alcohol ratio on side of shellac can.
I use a throw away chip brush to apply.
Have fun.
Lew
On Sep 11, 2:32=A0am, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Father Haskell <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Sep 10, 1:29=A0pm, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. S=
o fast
> > > in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to dr=
y,
> > > making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time a =
little?
> > > Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up helps a lit=
tle,
> > > but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in the day. Thanks=
.
>
> > > --
> > > Paul
>
> > Work fast and let the shellac have time to dry hard between
> > coats. =A0Giveaway is bits of lint from the rag in your shellac.
> > A couple of drops of mineral, olive, or walnut oil on
> > the pad will stop it from sticking. =A0Ridges or other defects
> > can be wet sanded out easily with 320 and paint thinner.
>
> Didn't O'Deen post a link to a video a few years back of him padding
> shellac onto a mantel (or table top)?
>
> Anyone have a URL?
Look up any French polishing site. Only difference
is padding uses a heavier cut and more of it.
On 9/10/2011 12:29 PM, Paul wrote:
> I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So
> fast in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to
> dry, making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time
> a little? Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up
> helps a little, but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in
> the day. Thanks.
Any time you pad shellac you obviously need to do small areas.
On hot humid days I spray a 1 1/2# cut shellac, cut with 99% isopropyl
alcohol to retard the tendency to blush.
Might want to give that a try. You should be able to get it at any pharmacy.
IME, do NOT use the isopropyl "rubbing alcohol" as it has a higher water
content.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Strange places like big box stores - aka - Home Depot, Lowe's and the
corner hardware / lumber yard. Now for the strangest - Pharmacy and
maybe an auto part store.
Martin
On 9/11/2011 1:45 PM, Han wrote:
> Jack Stein<[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> I do not recommend using methanol as
>> a solvent because it is very toxic. In some older finishing books,
>> methanol is referred to as wood alcohol or methylated spirits, but its
>> use is discouraged.
>
> Methanol is toxic if you really drink it instead of or mixed with ethanol.
> Methanol isn't all that toxic if you handle it appropriately. I used to
> work with mixtures of MeOH, chloroform, ammonia (or acetic acid), and water
> as solvent for chromatography. Maybe that's why I'm the way I am now, but
> otherwise ...
>
> My probem with methanol is that I needed it for something woodworking after
> I retired, and here in NJ I can't seem to fid a store that sells it.
"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So fast
>in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to dry,
>making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time a
>little? Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up helps a
>little, but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in the day.
>Thanks.
I've been down that path... I finally started putting it on the surface with
a plastic pipette (think small turkey baster --
http://www.amazon.com/3ml-Plastic-Transfer-Pipette-pack/dp/B00207CO7I ) and
then brushing it quickly. This allows me to get it on fast so there is
always a wet edge and no stop/start overlaps along the length. I doubt if
you'll find this technique in any books... it's along the lines of pouring
wipe on poly on the surface and then wiping. ;~)
John
"Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So
> fast in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting
> to dry, making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying
> time a little? Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat
> up helps a little, but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later
> in the day. Thanks.
Look up on Google for better hints than this. Shellac dissolves in
ethanol. EtOH (CH3-CH2OH) evaporates rather fast. To slow this, try to
add some propanol (CH3-CH2-CH2OH), or isopropanol (CH3-CHOH-CH3). Longer
and/or more complex carbon backbone makes for higher boiling point, less
evaporation. Also diluting with EtOH or (iso)propanol, especialy for a
first sealer coat, makes things easier to apply.
See also the Bible:
http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> I do not recommend using methanol as
> a solvent because it is very toxic. In some older finishing books,
> methanol is referred to as wood alcohol or methylated spirits, but its
> use is discouraged.
Methanol is toxic if you really drink it instead of or mixed with ethanol.
Methanol isn't all that toxic if you handle it appropriately. I used to
work with mixtures of MeOH, chloroform, ammonia (or acetic acid), and water
as solvent for chromatography. Maybe that's why I'm the way I am now, but
otherwise ...
My probem with methanol is that I needed it for something woodworking after
I retired, and here in NJ I can't seem to fid a store that sells it.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 9/11/2011 2:45 PM, Han wrote:
>> Jack Stein wrote:
>>
>>> I do not recommend using methanol as
>>> a solvent because it is very toxic. In some older finishing books,
>>> methanol is referred to as wood alcohol or methylated spirits, but
>>> its use is discouraged.
>
>> Methanol is toxic if you really drink it instead of or mixed with
>> ethanol. Methanol isn't all that toxic if you handle it
>> appropriately.
>
> I thought that was a bit strange myself. Lots of solvents are toxic.
> I wouldn't recommend drinking lacquer thinner, for example.
Yes. Even water is toxic. Someone I know was drinking too much water,
resulting in an electrolyte imbalance. Not good. But he's doing very well
now, thank you.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Have you thought about spraying it on?
How big is your area that you are using this on.
Are you applying indoors or Out? Can you bring it in to cooler temps.
Shellac like lacquer will haze in humidity I assume you know that.
On lacquers I use a retarder to slow down if its hot or hazy, but I have
never done that to shellac.
Try going to an auto paint store and getting a retarder for lacquer, and
test a spot... See if it helps.
On 9/10/2011 1:29 PM, Paul wrote:
> I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So
> fast in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to
> dry, making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time
> a little? Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up
> helps a little, but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in
> the day. Thanks.
>
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:29:58 -0700, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So fast
>in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to dry,
>making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time a little?
>Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up helps a little,
>but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in the day. Thanks.
A few years ago I posted this tip under the title "shellac blasphemy"
and got blown out of cyberspace by this group, but I swear it works.
I was using shellac on a large surface area (built-in desk/workspace),
and it became a huge PITA applying the shellac by brush. I found that
using a 4-inch wide high density foam roller worked exceptionally
well. I could apply a coat of Zinsser's shellac over ~40 sq ft in 5
mins or less, keeping the "wet edge" concept intact. There was a
slight orange peel effect that sanded out every 2-3 coats easily. And
I could put on 6-8 coats a day.
But you have to test the batch of shellac to see if the alcohol
denaturing agent is compatible with the foam roller. Some denaturants
e.g. MEK, benzene, &tc. will dissolve the foam and make a huge mess.
All I kniw is that it worked REALLY well for me.
-Zz
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:54:41 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 9/10/2011 12:29 PM, Paul wrote:
>> I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So
>> fast in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to
>> dry, making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time
>> a little? Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up
>> helps a little, but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in
>> the day. Thanks.
>
>Any time you pad shellac you obviously need to do small areas.
>
>On hot humid days I spray a 1 1/2# cut shellac, cut with 99% isopropyl
>alcohol to retard the tendency to blush.
Do you get any blushing on cool, humid mornings?
>Might want to give that a try. You should be able to get it at any pharmacy.
>
>IME, do NOT use the isopropyl "rubbing alcohol" as it has a higher water
>content.
Yeah, he wants to avoid the pharmacy. http://shellac.net/faq.html
--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca
On Sep 10, 1:29=A0pm, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So fa=
st
> in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to dry,
> making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time a litt=
le?
> Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up helps a little,
> but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in the day. Thanks.
>
> --
> Paul
Work fast and let the shellac have time to dry hard between
coats. Giveaway is bits of lint from the rag in your shellac.
A couple of drops of mineral, olive, or walnut oil on
the pad will stop it from sticking. Ridges or other defects
can be wet sanded out easily with 320 and paint thinner.
On 9/10/2011 2:59 PM, Han wrote:
> "Paul"<[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So
>> fast in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting
>> to dry, making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying
>> time a little? Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat
>> up helps a little, but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later
>> in the day. Thanks.
> See also the Bible:
> http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm
Here's what the "bible" has to say:
Dissolve dry shellac flakes in denatured ethanol, which is sold in most
paint stores. It also dissolves in methanol, butyl and propyl alcohol.
Methanol will evaporate the quickest, followed by ethanol, butyl and
propyl alcohol. The last two alcohols, butyl and propyl can be added to
shellac dissolved in ethanol in small amounts to act as retarders, which
make the shellac stay wet longer for better application (like brushing).
Lacquer retarder can also be used. I do not recommend using methanol as
a solvent because it is very toxic. In some older finishing books,
methanol is referred to as wood alcohol or methylated spirits, but its
use is discouraged.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 9/11/2011 2:45 PM, Han wrote:
> Jack Stein wrote:
>
>> I do not recommend using methanol as
>> a solvent because it is very toxic. In some older finishing books,
>> methanol is referred to as wood alcohol or methylated spirits, but its
>> use is discouraged.
> Methanol is toxic if you really drink it instead of or mixed with ethanol.
> Methanol isn't all that toxic if you handle it appropriately.
I thought that was a bit strange myself. Lots of solvents are toxic. I
wouldn't recommend drinking lacquer thinner, for example.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
I used to
> work with mixtures of MeOH, chloroform, ammonia (or acetic acid), and water
> as solvent for chromatography. Maybe that's why I'm the way I am now, but
> otherwise ...
>
> My probem with methanol is that I needed it for something woodworking after
> I retired, and here in NJ I can't seem to fid a store that sells it.
Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 9/11/2011 2:45 PM, Han wrote:
>>> Jack Stein wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do not recommend using methanol as
>>>> a solvent because it is very toxic. In some older finishing books,
>>>> methanol is referred to as wood alcohol or methylated spirits, but
>>>> its use is discouraged.
>>
>>> Methanol is toxic if you really drink it instead of or mixed with
>>> ethanol. Methanol isn't all that toxic if you handle it
>>> appropriately.
>>
>> I thought that was a bit strange myself. Lots of solvents are toxic.
>> I wouldn't recommend drinking lacquer thinner, for example.
>
>Yes. Even water is toxic.
Has probably caused more deaths due to inhalation than all other
solvents combined!
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
On 9/12/2011 11:06 AM, Han wrote:
> Jack Stein wrote in
>>> Methanol is toxic if you really drink it instead of or mixed with
>>> ethanol. Methanol isn't all that toxic if you handle it
>>> appropriately.
>> I thought that was a bit strange myself. Lots of solvents are toxic.
>> I wouldn't recommend drinking lacquer thinner, for example.
> Yes. Even water is toxic. Someone I know was drinking too much water,
> resulting in an electrolyte imbalance. Not good. But he's doing very well
> now, thank you.
Next time mix a little alcohol with it, but stay away from the Meth:-)
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
In article <[email protected]>,
Han <[email protected]> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>Yes. Even water is toxic. Someone I know was drinking too much water,
>resulting in an electrolyte imbalance. Not good. But he's doing very well
>now, thank you.
>
>--
It's a certain conclusion that water is toxic. All fish eventually die, after all.
--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 10:29:58 -0700, "Paul" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am using Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, which drys fast, really fast. So fast
>in fact, it is difficult to rub on and get done before starting to dry,
>making for a not so smooth a finish. Any way to retard drying time a little?
>Doing it first thing in the morning before things heat up helps a little,
>but not enough. Forget trying to do anything later in the day. Thanks.
1) Switch from denatured alcohol to isopropyl alcohol.
It dries more slowly.
2) Finish in the early morning, when the humidity is higher and the
temperature is lower.
3) Switch from shellac to Waterlox. (Sorry, had to do it. ;)
--
Most powerful is he who has himself in his own power.
-- Seneca