O/T: computer question

On 11 Mar 2012 19:05:22 GMT, Puckdropper
>My computers collect dust internally just fine. I'll need the CT22 or
>whatever model vac to clean them out!

Reminds me of the time I was vacuuming out the dust from a case with a
486 in it. I actually sucked the bios chip off the motherboard. Made
quite the mess digging it out of the vacuum bag.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 15:08:04 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>I know that we're all aware of this, but sometimes it still amazes me at how
>the prices of computer hardware have plumetted so much. I remember when I
>was with EMC back in the mid-90s and a terabyte of storage was a million
>dollar investment. Granted - that was more than just a terabyte of disk,
>but still...

Shows you how spoiled we are these days. My first computer was a
386-16. The 80 meg hard drive in it cost me over $800 just for the
drive itself.

At one point, I upgraded the 1 meg of ram to 4 megs. Cost me a
whopping $500 for that ram.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 11:50:15 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/11/2012 10:24 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:20:23 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/11/2012 6:18 AM, HeyBub wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>> HeyBub wrote:
>>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the
>>>>>>>> box was crushed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test"
>>>>>>>> that we used to use ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>>>>>>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>>>>>>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>>>>>>> (like memory)
>>>>>>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>>>>>>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct.
>>>>>> People who do that do not think like most of us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please help me translate that last sentence.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Uh, okay. Sorry for the "whoosh" factor.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
>>>> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>>>> technology that's not really necessary.
>>>>
>>>
>>> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)
>>
>> Yeah, just trade in that old house you're living in for one, complete
>> with internal dust collection and Festool green LEDs.
>
>
>The old house I am living in is 1 year old last Christmas.

Yes, I know that. Them Festools ain't cheap, son. ;)

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:45:14 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:

> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert
Not a direct answer to your question, but...
I would get another one.
It is possible that the mistreatment could have damaged
a circuit board trace that a minor bump in the future could
cause a total failure or intermittant problems.

A year from now it will be on your dime.

basilisk

On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed.

> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use ...

Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal disk/screen/keyboard
functions, why would you want to test things (like memory)
that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?

Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
agonize over imaginary problems.

It fine just fine on my half page viewing.

Mike needs to reduce his font size and stop displaying his old fogey
syndrome! LOL


-----------

"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
I do. Thank you for the reminder.

---------
Mike Marlow wrote:
BTW Bill - snip your posts.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:20:23 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/11/2012 6:18 AM, HeyBub wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>> HeyBub wrote:
>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the
>>>>>> box was crushed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test"
>>>>>> that we used to use ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>>>>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>>>>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>>>>> (like memory)
>>>>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>>>>
>>>>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>>>>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>>>>
>>>
>>>> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct.
>>>> People who do that do not think like most of us.
>>>
>>> Please help me translate that last sentence.
>>>
>>
>> Uh, okay. Sorry for the "whoosh" factor.
>>
>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
>> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>> technology that's not really necessary.
>>
>
>NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)

Yeah, just trade in that old house you're living in for one, complete
with internal dust collection and Festool green LEDs.

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

On Mar 7, 12:45=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. =A0 One big problem; the box
> was crushed. =A0The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. =A0I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. =A0Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. =A0You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? =A0A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert

Six months, a year, a long time from now, if something on your laptop
doesn't quite behave the way you want/expect, your automatic
inclination will be "I wonder if it DID get damaged." The possibility
of that thought alone, would make me get a new one. It's the only way
to remove that doubt.

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> writes:
>
>All this old timer talk about computers. The only thing older than these
>machines is me. My THIRD computer was an original IBM, with two floppies
>and 128 k memory. On floppy for the software and another for storage. It
>was all the rage at the time.

My first computer was a week on a B5500 in 1974.
Second was a PDP-8 via dialup in 1976
Third was an HP-3000 via dialup in 1977
Fourth was a VAX-11/780 (staff) in 1979
Then PDP-11, HP9000, Itel AS/6 (370 PCM), various burroughs mainframes.

First personal was a c64, then an A1000, then various 88100 unix systems,
finally a P6 (first x86 box) in 1997.

Did use a portable (IBM 5100 basic and apl ROM) circa 1982.

scott

On 3/11/2012 6:18 AM, HeyBub wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the
>>>>> box was crushed.
>>>>
>>>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test"
>>>>> that we used to use ...
>>>>
>>>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>>>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>>>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>>>> (like memory)
>>>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>>>
>>>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>>>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>>>
>>
>>> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct.
>>> People who do that do not think like most of us.
>>
>> Please help me translate that last sentence.
>>
>
> Uh, okay. Sorry for the "whoosh" factor.
>
> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
> technology that's not really necessary.
>

NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)

whit3rd wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>> was crushed.
>
>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
>> we used to use ...
>
> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
> (like memory)
> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>
> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
> agonize over imaginary problems.

He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct. People who do that do
not think like most of us.

I just bought five Dell desktops for $100 (total). If one or more of the
desktops act a little funny, well, no great loss.

On 3/10/2012 6:51 PM, CW wrote:
>
>
> "HeyBub" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> whit3rd wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>>> was crushed.
>>
>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
>>> we used to use ...
>>
>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>> (like memory)
>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>
>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>
> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct. People who do that do
> not think like most of us.
>
> I just bought five Dell desktops for $100 (total). If one or more of the
> desktops act a little funny, well, no great loss.
> =============================================================
> 486's

286's

On 03/06/2012 10:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert

Here's a good standalone memory tester: http://www.memtest.org/

Download, write to a CD, boot up the CD and let it grind.

I'd be more concerned about hard drive shock damage than MB/memory damage.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

Robert,

Take a look at SpinRite at www.grc.com

Your current issue may not warrant the cost of the program. However, going
forward with whatever you decide to do with the laptop, you may find it a
useful tool.

I've seen some scenarios where dropping a laptop has dislodged internal
components, such as RAM or video cards, that once reseated allowed the
laptop to work again.

The usual disclaimers apply. No affiliation with the company, just a
satisfied end-user.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

Peter.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert

On 03/10/2012 04:54 PM, HeyBub wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>>> was crushed.
>>
>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
>>> we used to use ...
>>
>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>> (like memory)
>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>
>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>
> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct. People who do that do
> not think like most of us.
>
> I just bought five Dell desktops for $100 (total). If one or more of the
> desktops act a little funny, well, no great loss.
>
>
Well, if one or more does act "funny" like my wifes old Dell, it may
well be a result of bad electrolytic capacitors. Her PC started hanging
with no other indications. I opened it up and six or eight of the
electrolytics were bulging out the top. Sent the MB to these guys:

http://www.badcaps.net/

Got it back for under a hundred bucks with every electrolytic on the MB
replaced. Been working great now for almost a year where it was hanging
every few hours before.

Apparently, the chiwanese have been shipping electrolytics for all kinds
of devices that were like many of their other products.

I also had a rocketfish wireless speaker receiver fail for the same
reason. I may try to see if I can replace the bad caps myself as I
already hard wired the surround speakers.

The cheapest components to produce the cheapest product doesn't always
pay off for the consumer.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:P-
[email protected]:

>
> Oddly my 1 year old desk top had 5 fans, power supply, CPU, video card
> and 2 extra cooling fans. Really not loud at all. I know that some are
> quite noisy but this one really does not draw attention.
>

Many have fan speed controllers that really quiet things down. They'll run
at full speed for a few seconds at power up and then settle down or turn
off completely. Most of the life of a computer is spent not doing
anything.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Yeah, just trade in that old house you're living in for one, complete
> with internal dust collection and Festool green LEDs.

My computers collect dust internally just fine. I'll need the CT22 or
whatever model vac to clean them out!

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Shows you how spoiled we are these days. My first computer was a
> 386-16. The 80 meg hard drive in it cost me over $800 just for the
> drive itself.
>
> At one point, I upgraded the 1 meg of ram to 4 megs. Cost me a
> whopping $500 for that ram.

I have a TI994/a as my first computer. 1 mHz processor, storage was
mainly on cassette tapes, and the joystick up button didn't work if the
Alpha Lock key was down. There were no lowercase letters either. Lower
case was small caps. It came with a Speech Synthesizer so games could
talk to you.

Neat little machine, though. Even in 2012 Parsec is a fun game to play.
"Press Fire to Begin" it'd say. "Warning: Alien Craft Advancing." "Nice
Shot Pilot." "Nice Shooting." and a few more phrases.

It's responsible for my love of Small Caps fonts and TI calculators.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 03/11/2012 06:46 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:06:39 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>

> No fair! They're using green LEDs, not green paint.
>
> My first comp was a $950 80286-12MHz screamer with two 5.25 floppies
> and a 10MB hard drive. I added a 20MB hard drive the next year for
> only $300. I think the comp came with 284k and I later upgraded to
> 640k and started using DesqVIEW to multitask with it. That was so
> -cool- at the time! I adopted Windows 3.0 shortly thereafter and
> probably saw 28,000 Blue Screens of Death before Win 3.1 came out and
> fixed most of that. Remember Norton Editor and Norton Commander? Ol
> Bill was truly a DOS God back then, before he sold his soul to
> SlymeAntics.

My first comp (it wasn't really mine as I had just signed on with Big
Blue) was an IBM 360/30 in 1966. A mainframe with 8K of core memory and
a card reader/punch, a chain printer and a huge 3MB removable disc.

The software was a card assembler. That sucker was proudly displayed in
the IBM building in Seattle behind glass walls on the ground floor for
all to marvel. It did have a console with lots of switches and little
blinky lights (not leds).


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 3/11/2012 9:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/11/2012 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
>> wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
>> spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
>> purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
>> budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.
>
> My second computer was a 99/4A. It was actually a 16 bit processor
> beast, IIRC. :)
>
> I used a GE cassette deck for a "hard drive". I wrote an oil and gas
> lease records program on it, in TI basic, and actually sold a few copies
> to clients at the time, who were tickled to get their lease records onto
> something besides paper. I also started learning TI assembly language on
> it ... that was a tough learn in those times, as there was not much
> documentation.
>
> That thing seemed like cutting edge at the time, at least if you
> couldn't afford an IBM 360. Our company CPA actually used one for his
> business at one point.
>
> My oldest daughter, as a youngster, used to play on it using the
> "Turtle" logo programming language.
>
> The very first computer game I ever played (and may have been the last,
> except Pong in a bar), "Pirate", was on the 99/4A. Totally text based,
> and any "graphics" were totally and solely the result of your own
> imagination.
>
> Can you imagine that today? :)
>
>
Began programming computers for a living on an IBM 360 mod 40 in October
1967. 128K of RAM, two 2311 disk drives, 3.96 MB capacity per drive,
removable disks, 4 tape drives... those were the days. After a Vic 20
then Vic 64 at home, I had a Heath 8086 machine for a while, 1228K RAM,
20MB hard drive - faster and more powerful than that 360 I started on!
Things have sure changed over the years... LOL

Matt

All this old timer talk about computers. The only thing older than these
machines is me. My THIRD computer was an original IBM, with two floppies
and 128 k memory. On floppy for the software and another for storage. It
was all the rage at the time.

My SECOND computer was an Epson! Yep, the printer people had a CPM system
out for awhile.

Mt first was a....., I can't remember the name of it. It looked like a
metal suitcase and had a giant 9 inch monitor built into it. It was also a
cpm machine. Was that an Osbourne?

And I had an IBM selectric typewriter at the time. So I got a big, awkward
thing, full of solenoids to sit on the keyboard. I hooked it up to the
computer and it "typed" the copy. Later, they came out with an electronic
interface that was much smaller and cheaper. It sounded like a small
hailstorm when it "typed" out some copy.

I was doing some writing at the time and used a Kroy, manual type machine.
I would type out the copy on the typewriter and manually past it up with the
Kroy type. I would them take it the printer. I actually made my living
with that arrangement for awhile. With the font balls for the selectric, it
was cutting edge graphic arts at the time. I subbed out any illustrations I
needed at the local community college. I was known for cheap and fast
graphic arts at the time.

Actually, my first involvement with computers was back in 1964 - 65, when I
was in 8th grade. I helped the class prodigy to build a computer. I was
the grunt, helper, gofer. I didn't have any idea what was going on. But I
held things in place, walked across town to get parts and did some
soldering. It was a big monstrosity that had at least 75 to 80 vacuum tubes
in it. And when we fired it up, in that little room in back of the science
department, it got HOT! We would be dripping with sweat after 10 minutes.

It did not last long. We ran it a few times and it caught on fire. We put
it out with the fire extinguisher. We had to talk to the fire department
and the principal. Who then banned any more "mad scientist" experiments at
his school. Oh well. I used to kid the principal after that. Always
pretending to be working on some kinda mad scientist experiment. It was all
in good fun though, we got along great.

Damn, I feel like some kinda prehistoric techy fossil.

My very first computer experience was around 1953. Dad was working on
his Master's thesis and brought home a huge, German (IIRC) electronic
analog computer that belonged to the geology department. Shortly
thereafter he had a perforated ulcer and, while he was recuperating, I
did all the input while he directed me from his bed. The beginning of a
long slippery slope ... the fascination has never waned.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Bill wrote:

>
> Yes, I agree that my recollection of prices that I have paid for stuff
> in the past makes it easier to buy new hardware. I haven't jointed
> the Apple I-gang, however. I just made that term up. Let me know if,
> somehow, a definition is needed.

Like you - I have not joined the dark side. I do own an iPod, but beyond
that, I'm not an Apple culture person.

BTW Bill - snip your posts.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:45:14 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
>old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
>(NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
>shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
>assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
>I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
>although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
>which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
>as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
>I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
>we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
>memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
>cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
>and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.

I remember those vividly. I used to test all memory and hard drives
with 'em.


>I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
>aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
>window.
>
>Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
>experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?

Ask a local computer shop who does anti-virus work for a suggestion.
They usually have the best techs.

Or googlit: "computer testing software" and cautiously download some
from a known good site, like PCWORLD, CNET, or TUCOWS.
http://tinyurl.com/66hgdt

I think I'd just send the thing back if it were mine. Be sure to
write down the serial number so it doesn't come back.

--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer

Leon wrote:
> On 3/11/2012 2:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer.
>>> ;~)
>>
>> Don't hold your breath Leon. Rumor has it no supplier is willing to
>> paint a perfectly good cabinet that "green" color.
>>
>> They say it makes it look too much like a... sander.
>>
>
> Actually,......
>
> http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-m18x/pd.aspx

Whoda ever thunk it?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mar 7, 9:49=A0pm, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> How did you come up with that conclusion? =A0It is also possible than it
> was not dropped at all, but the protective packaging material was
> crushed when something was placed or dropped on it and inflicted no
> damage.
>
> FWIW, I've been in the protective packaging industry for the past 42
> years so I've seen lots of different scenarios.

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I have been using the crap out
of the machine and it seems to be in good order. Still testing, and
looking at read/reread/write/testing software to make sure it is OK.
So far so good.
ED P. a special thanks to you. I got to thinking - hey, I should call
MY buddy in the shipping business and let him look over this box and
get his opinion. Ed, you were close without even seeing it. My pal
Larry has been in and out of the shipping business for about 20 years
as a pilot/loader/handler, jack of all trades for several cargo
shippers, like a private label UPS, UPS, DHL and has even flown and
loaded packages for FedEx. Working for a private carriers, he has
handled mountains of packages for them.

Larry immediately came to the conclusion that the box was indeed
crushed, not dropped. He inspected for impact damage, punctures,
localized compression (new term for me - that means large impact over
a large area such as a large damaged corner that caused stress over
25% of the length) and other things.

Sherlock Larry further concluded that the entire box had been
compressed due to the corners showing parallel compression folds up
the sides on all four corners in exactly the same fashion in exactly
the same places. With the amount of compression, the tape popped,
tearing off the thin skin of corrugated box. As he pointed out, the
tape itself was not cut, torn or separated, just torn off the box top
itself where it had adhered.

We were able to replicate this action in my living room by pushing the
box against the wall. It folded perfectly along the damage folds in
the box when I compressed the entire face of the box against the wall,
which he assured me was the box performing as it was designed to do.
The box popped open because they did a crappy tape job ( Jeez... were
they running out of tape when they mailed this to you? was his
comment) and the tape tore off the top layer of paper on the
corrugated box because the box was average or less quality.

We put the box that held the computer itself (undamaged)back into the
shipping box, and there was about 10" all the way around the computer
box when inside the shipping box. They didn't use the best packing
material (some kind of wound paper that was about a 6" tube about 15'
long, but it did its job. His conclusion was that there probably
wasn't any damage at all, that someone didn't see the box when loading
and mashed some other freight against the box. I felt 100% better
when we were able to recreate the mashing at will.

Tiger Direct has been princely about this, and told me that they would
extend the replacement window to 30 days. I have a one year accident
policy, as well as a TWO year parts/labor one way shipping on this
machine.
I intend to test it unmercifally, get a backup service and put it to
work. One unknown click, one hiccup, on pixel goes bad, and this
machine is gone.

So Ed, thanks for your post in particular. I appears that you were
right on. And I had that great resource a phone call away and didn't
even think to call him about this problem until you mentioned your
long experience in the freight business. Larry was able to peel me
off the ceiling, and now I can concentrate on getting this machine to
work.

Robert

[email protected] wrote:
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert

Are you sure the apps you mention do not function on win 7. Just because
it isn't listed for it doesn't mean it wont run.

Another option is to just have the computer do some very processing
heavy app (like a high spec 3d game or something). Have it keep running
through so that it is really working hard.

Keep that up for 48 hours (or whatever you want - but 24+). If it is
still running and working then I doubt there is anything happened. I did
find a "test" for Ram once - I would download and download and almost
every time the file was messed up - turned out my ram had gone bad. It
was still allowing the system to run but data was corrupted.

If it is running and not crashing - sounds like it is fine.


--

Michael Joel




For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes,
His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen,
being understood through what has been made,
so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God,
they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became
futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
- Romans 1:20-21 (NASB)




parksfamily2 ------ ---- --- gmail ----- ----- com
replace dashes with correct symbols

Bill wrote:

>
> Thanks for explaining. When I purchase, I stay at least a year behind
> the newest models--and I use the stuff until I have decent reason to
> replace it. I have found the strategy a good one for cars too!
>

Preach it Bill! Since I don't care at all about snob factor, I'm perfectly
fine with this strategy in my little corner of the world too.

BTW - you gotta learn to snip a bit in your replies.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Larry Jaques wrote:

>
> Yeah, just trade in that old house you're living in for one, complete
> with internal dust collection and Festool green LEDs.

Shoot - my PC's all have internal dust collection. Didn't even need the
Festool green... Oh yeah - the dust collection is very silent, and it makes
computing so much more fun!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Puckdropper wrote:

> My computers collect dust internally just fine. I'll need the CT22 or
> whatever model vac to clean them out!
>

Perfect timing - Dave just advertised a compressor for sale. Probably
overkill for your computers. Maybe he just ought to send it to me for
proper disposal.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 3/11/2012 2:08 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>
>> He's looking for a status symbol. A quad core machine with 8 gig
>> ram, a terabyte of disk, and a reasonably fancy video board can be
>> had from Best Buy for about 800 bucks.
>
> I know that we're all aware of this, but sometimes it still amazes me at how
> the prices of computer hardware have plumetted so much. I remember when I
> was with EMC back in the mid-90s and a terabyte of storage was a million
> dollar investment. Granted - that was more than just a terabyte of disk,
> but still...

I once paid $800 for 8MB of memory. Remember thinking it was like money
in the bank. :(

But boy did that sucker scream in the studio. :)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 3/11/2012 6:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Necessary to some. A guy at work is specing out a new computer. He
> is in the $1800 range with a fancy graphics card, Quad processor, lots
> of memory, etc. He needs it to store some music and pictures and his
> wife can check here Facebook page.

Been buying "certified refurbished" laptops from Dell's Outlet store for
about twelve years now with good luck. Three years ago, for the first
time and for a nominal price, had to replace a motherboard in one after
three years of use, but that laptop is still trucking in the office as a
multi-media only machine. The others were donated to charity when they
got long in the tooth and are still running last I heard.

Generally stick to their higher end XPS models and buy one that is still
in production, but was returned for one reason or another. I usually
save around $400-600 for the latest technology and spec's ... enough
that the last one was easily paid for from what was saved on the
previous three.

That said, Dell is not putting the quality in their laptops that they
once did. Although the last one, just a few months back, an XPS 15 502x,
does not have the fit and finish that the older ones exhibited, but it
still runs like hell with it's 64bit OS and Core i7 processor, and
hooked to a 24" monitor and SpaceNavigator, makes a helluva general
office and SketchUp machine.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:06:39 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/11/2012 2:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)
>>
>> Don't hold your breath Leon. Rumor has it no supplier is willing to paint a
>> perfectly good cabinet that "green" color.
>>
>> They say it makes it look too much like a... sander.
>>
>
>Actually,......
>
>http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-m18x/pd.aspx

No fair! They're using green LEDs, not green paint.

My first comp was a $950 80286-12MHz screamer with two 5.25 floppies
and a 10MB hard drive. I added a 20MB hard drive the next year for
only $300. I think the comp came with 284k and I later upgraded to
640k and started using DesqVIEW to multitask with it. That was so
-cool- at the time! I adopted Windows 3.0 shortly thereafter and
probably saw 28,000 Blue Screens of Death before Win 3.1 came out and
fixed most of that. Remember Norton Editor and Norton Commander? Ol
Bill was truly a DOS God back then, before he sold his soul to
SlymeAntics.

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

On 3/9/2012 4:01 AM, [email protected] wrote:

Snip, Snip

Snip, Snip

Snip, Snip

Snip, Snip

Snip, Snip

Snip, Snip


Larry was able to peel me
> off the ceiling, and now I can concentrate on getting this machine to
> work.
>
> Robert
>

Wasn't that what you were concerned about??? Send it back LOL.. ;~)

On 3/11/2012 11:47 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/11/2012 6:56 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Necessary to some. A guy at work is specing out a new computer. He
>> is in the $1800 range with a fancy graphics card, Quad processor, lots
>> of memory, etc. He needs it to store some music and pictures and his
>> wife can check here Facebook page.
>
> Been buying "certified refurbished" laptops from Dell's Outlet store for
> about twelve years now with good luck. Three years ago, for the first
> time and for a nominal price, had to replace a motherboard in one after
> three years of use, but that laptop is still trucking in the office as a
> multi-media only machine. The others were donated to charity when they
> got long in the tooth and are still running last I heard.
>
> Generally stick to their higher end XPS models and buy one that is still
> in production, but was returned for one reason or another. I usually
> save around $400-600 for the latest technology and spec's ... enough
> that the last one was easily paid for from what was saved on the
> previous three.
>
> That said, Dell is not putting the quality in their laptops that they
> once did. Although the last one, just a few months back, an XPS 15 502x,
> does not have the fit and finish that the older ones exhibited, but it
> still runs like hell with it's 64bit OS and Core i7 processor, and
> hooked to a 24" monitor and SpaceNavigator, makes a helluva general
> office and SketchUp machine.
>

This might be a better built XPS and apparent brand new.

http://www.dell.com/html/global/xps13/xps-13-ultrabook.html?c=us&l=en&s=dhs

On 3/6/2012 11:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.

That damned Butch ... screw up everything!

I would worry more about the hard drive than the memory.

Can't imagine why RAM would be effected even it the laptop was thrown
across the room.

That said, MSFT had a memory test program on their website that could be
burned to a CD. Memory diagnostics or something like that. You also want
to back that up with another program, like memtest, as a matter of course.

Having used, and dropped more than a few, of well over a hundred
removable hard drives in the studio, they are pretty robust as long as
they aren't running, the floor is carpeted, and you're not standing on a
ladder.

Use the built-in scan disk to test your hard drive. Unless there is
visible signs of damage to the laptop exterior and something is
rattling, I seriously doubt that you have a problem at all.

All that notwithstanding, send that sucker in and get a new one. No
sense in taking a chance ... or else get a subscription to Carbonite and
protect the data you're going to put on it, just in case.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

I remember paying over $1000 for a 1024K memory board populated with 32K of
chips back in the 70s. I would hate to tell you what my first computer
looked like with it's twenty large size keypad.

Harddrive? IS that like a faster cassette interface?


----------

"Han" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

I fogot what I paid for my Apple //e 128kB memory expansion card ...

[This followup was posted to rec.woodworking and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>
> I think I'd just send the thing back if it were mine. Be sure to
> write down the serial number so it doesn't come back.


More than the serial number - write down the MAC address of the network
controller. Serial number labels or the case pieces they are glued to
can be changed. Less likely that the MAC address would be changed unless
the unit went through a factory test after a re-furb.

--

Michael Karas
Carousel Design Solutions
http://www.carousel-design.com

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 06:18:36 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
> >computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
> >technology that's not really necessary.
> >
>
> Necessary to some. A guy at work is specing out a new computer. He
> is in the $1800 range with a fancy graphics card, Quad processor, lots
> of memory, etc. He needs it to store some music and pictures and his
> wife can check here Facebook page.
>
> Not to mention that he is also looking for the absolute lowest price,
> no matter the quality of the components.

He's looking for a status symbol. A quad core machine with 8 gig ram, a
terabyte of disk, and a reasonably fancy video board can be had from
Best Buy for about 800 bucks.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On 3/11/2012 9:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
> > On 3/11/2012 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> >
> >> My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
> >> wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
> >> spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
> >> purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
> >> budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.
> >
> > My second computer was a 99/4A. It was actually a 16 bit processor
> > beast, IIRC. :)
> >
> > I used a GE cassette deck for a "hard drive". I wrote an oil and gas
> > lease records program on it, in TI basic, and actually sold a few copies
> > to clients at the time, who were tickled to get their lease records onto
> > something besides paper. I also started learning TI assembly language on
> > it ... that was a tough learn in those times, as there was not much
> > documentation.
> >
> > That thing seemed like cutting edge at the time, at least if you
> > couldn't afford an IBM 360. Our company CPA actually used one for his
> > business at one point.
> >
> > My oldest daughter, as a youngster, used to play on it using the
> > "Turtle" logo programming language.
> >
> > The very first computer game I ever played (and may have been the last,
> > except Pong in a bar), "Pirate", was on the 99/4A. Totally text based,
> > and any "graphics" were totally and solely the result of your own
> > imagination.
> >
> > Can you imagine that today? :)
> >
> >
> Began programming computers for a living on an IBM 360 mod 40 in October
> 1967. 128K of RAM, two 2311 disk drives, 3.96 MB capacity per drive,
> removable disks, 4 tape drives... those were the days. After a Vic 20
> then Vic 64 at home, I had a Heath 8086 machine for a while, 1228K RAM,
> 20MB hard drive - faster and more powerful than that 360 I started on!
> Things have sure changed over the years... LOL

I remember being told in 1974 or thereabouts that microprocessors would
always be toys--they had to use MOS and MOS would never achieve clock
speeds higher than a few MHz and that no micro would ever be as fast as
Illiac IV. I just ran Whestone on my 600 buck Gateway. THIRTEEN
GIGAFLOPS.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> On 3/11/2012 9:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
> >>> On 3/11/2012 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
> >>>> wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
> >>>> spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
> >>>> purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
> >>>> budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.
> >>>
> >>> My second computer was a 99/4A. It was actually a 16 bit processor
> >>> beast, IIRC. :)
> >>>
> >>> I used a GE cassette deck for a "hard drive". I wrote an oil and gas
> >>> lease records program on it, in TI basic, and actually sold a few copies
> >>> to clients at the time, who were tickled to get their lease records onto
> >>> something besides paper. I also started learning TI assembly language on
> >>> it ... that was a tough learn in those times, as there was not much
> >>> documentation.
> >>>
> >>> That thing seemed like cutting edge at the time, at least if you
> >>> couldn't afford an IBM 360. Our company CPA actually used one for his
> >>> business at one point.
> >>>
> >>> My oldest daughter, as a youngster, used to play on it using the
> >>> "Turtle" logo programming language.
> >>>
> >>> The very first computer game I ever played (and may have been the last,
> >>> except Pong in a bar), "Pirate", was on the 99/4A. Totally text based,
> >>> and any "graphics" were totally and solely the result of your own
> >>> imagination.
> >>>
> >>> Can you imagine that today? :)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Began programming computers for a living on an IBM 360 mod 40 in October
> >> 1967. 128K of RAM, two 2311 disk drives, 3.96 MB capacity per drive,
> >> removable disks, 4 tape drives... those were the days. After a Vic 20
> >> then Vic 64 at home, I had a Heath 8086 machine for a while, 1228K RAM,
> >> 20MB hard drive - faster and more powerful than that 360 I started on!
> >> Things have sure changed over the years... LOL
> >
> > I remember being told in 1974 or thereabouts that microprocessors would
> > always be toys--they had to use MOS and MOS would never achieve clock
> > speeds higher than a few MHz and that no micro would ever be as fast as
> > Illiac IV. I just ran Whestone on my 600 buck Gateway. THIRTEEN
> > GIGAFLOPS.
> >
>
> With credit to the web site:
> http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml
>
> We have the following (bad) predictions:
> (Enjoy!)
>
> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas
> Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
>
> "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes
> and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum
> tubes and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, 1949
>
> "I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with
> the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that
> won't last out the year." -- The editor in charge of business books for
> Prentice Hall, 1957.
>
> "But what...is it good for?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing
> Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
>
> "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken
> Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.
>
> >

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> On 3/11/2012 9:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
> >>> On 3/11/2012 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
> >>>> wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
> >>>> spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
> >>>> purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
> >>>> budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.
> >>>
> >>> My second computer was a 99/4A. It was actually a 16 bit processor
> >>> beast, IIRC. :)
> >>>
> >>> I used a GE cassette deck for a "hard drive". I wrote an oil and gas
> >>> lease records program on it, in TI basic, and actually sold a few copies
> >>> to clients at the time, who were tickled to get their lease records onto
> >>> something besides paper. I also started learning TI assembly language on
> >>> it ... that was a tough learn in those times, as there was not much
> >>> documentation.
> >>>
> >>> That thing seemed like cutting edge at the time, at least if you
> >>> couldn't afford an IBM 360. Our company CPA actually used one for his
> >>> business at one point.
> >>>
> >>> My oldest daughter, as a youngster, used to play on it using the
> >>> "Turtle" logo programming language.
> >>>
> >>> The very first computer game I ever played (and may have been the last,
> >>> except Pong in a bar), "Pirate", was on the 99/4A. Totally text based,
> >>> and any "graphics" were totally and solely the result of your own
> >>> imagination.
> >>>
> >>> Can you imagine that today? :)
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Began programming computers for a living on an IBM 360 mod 40 in October
> >> 1967. 128K of RAM, two 2311 disk drives, 3.96 MB capacity per drive,
> >> removable disks, 4 tape drives... those were the days. After a Vic 20
> >> then Vic 64 at home, I had a Heath 8086 machine for a while, 1228K RAM,
> >> 20MB hard drive - faster and more powerful than that 360 I started on!
> >> Things have sure changed over the years... LOL
> >
> > I remember being told in 1974 or thereabouts that microprocessors would
> > always be toys--they had to use MOS and MOS would never achieve clock
> > speeds higher than a few MHz and that no micro would ever be as fast as
> > Illiac IV. I just ran Whestone on my 600 buck Gateway. THIRTEEN
> > GIGAFLOPS.
> >
>
> With credit to the web site:
> http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml
>
> We have the following (bad) predictions:
> (Enjoy!)
>
> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas
> Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.

Nobody who has looked for a source for that statement has ever found it.
And it's questionable, as there was no such thing as a computer as we
know it in 1943 and IBM didn't have one until 1948, so why would he have
any opinion at all concerning the market for such devices?

However it sounds much like what really did happen in 19_5_3, when IBM
went out 20 companies with a presentation about the 701, where they
expected to get at best 5 orders and they got 18.

It happens that [email protected] formulated :
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert

Since you do not have any info/programs of your own installed yet, JUST
call for a replacement and blame UPS.
Simpler than trying to show some internal problem that neither you nor
the supplier willunderstand.

--
John G

On 3/11/2012 1:42 PM, Bill wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 06:18:36 -0500, "HeyBub"<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A
>>> new
>>> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>>> technology that's not really necessary.
>>>
>>
>> Necessary to some. A guy at work is specing out a new computer. He
>> is in the $1800 range with a fancy graphics card, Quad processor, lots
>> of memory, etc. He needs it to store some music and pictures and his
>> wife can check here Facebook page.
>>
>> Not to mention that he is also looking for the absolute lowest price,
>> no matter the quality of the components.
>
> When I selected the parts for my last computer I spec'ed it out with
> regard to lowest *sound* (i.e. the quietest)! I have to share an office
> with the thing and those "fancy graphics cards" can be loud. For
> instance, my graphics card uses ambient cooling (with a big heat sink).
> The power supply was also hand-selected. Price and speed aren't
> everything; there is a non-trivial premium to be paid for quiet! : )

Oddly my 1 year old desk top had 5 fans, power supply, CPU, video card
and 2 extra cooling fans. Really not loud at all. I know that some are
quite noisy but this one really does not draw attention.

On 3/11/2012 1:35 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/11/2012 11:47 AM, Swingman wrote:

>> That said, Dell is not putting the quality in their laptops that they
>> once did. Although the last one, just a few months back, an XPS 15 502x,
>> does not have the fit and finish that the older ones exhibited, but it
>> still runs like hell with it's 64bit OS and Core i7 processor, and
>> hooked to a 24" monitor and SpaceNavigator, makes a helluva general
>> office and SketchUp machine.
>>
>
> This might be a better built XPS and apparent brand new.
>
> http://www.dell.com/html/global/xps13/xps-13-ultrabook.html?c=us&l=en&s=dhs

Not enough ports for office use, no optical drive, and too new for the
Outlet Store. Besides, I already have an iPad. ;)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 3/11/2012 9:21 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:

> My first comp (it wasn't really mine as I had just signed on with Big
> Blue) was an IBM 360/30 in 1966. A mainframe with 8K of core memory and
> a card reader/punch, a chain printer and a huge 3MB removable disc.
>
> The software was a card assembler. That sucker was proudly displayed in
> the IBM building in Seattle behind glass walls on the ground floor for
> all to marvel. It did have a console with lots of switches and little
> blinky lights (not leds).
>
>


That was the machine I first learned Fortran on (1972).

One fellow, struggling to put himself through college had created a
generic set of cards which he would rearrange to create new programs.

I thought that was pretty cool.

On 3/12/2012 5:29 PM, Swingman wrote:
> My very first computer experience was around 1953. Dad was working on
> his Master's thesis and brought home a huge, German (IIRC) electronic
> analog computer that belonged to the geology department. Shortly
> thereafter he had a perforated ulcer and, while he was recuperating,

Worry can cause ulcers. Was he worried about which virus protection to
use on the "huge German electronic analog computer or that you might
want to examine the innerds to see what made it tick? LOL

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Then you should know that the test procedures are not actually
> representative of what can happen in the real world. Ideally, the
> foam packaging absorbs almost all of the impact, but a 15' fall onto a
> single corner just might overstress the packaging. I wonder if Robert
> has pics...

But it may or may not overstress the contents. One of my customers required
a 26' drop (yes 26 feet). That was to simulate the drop from the cargo hold
of and airplane. The package can be damaged, but the radioactive product
could not leak.

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 3/11/2012 2:08 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> He's looking for a status symbol. A quad core machine with 8 gig
>>> ram, a terabyte of disk, and a reasonably fancy video board can be
>>> had from Best Buy for about 800 bucks.
>>
>> I know that we're all aware of this, but sometimes it still amazes me
>> at how the prices of computer hardware have plumetted so much. I
>> remember when I was with EMC back in the mid-90s and a terabyte of
>> storage was a million dollar investment. Granted - that was more
>> than just a terabyte of disk, but still...
>
> I once paid $800 for 8MB of memory. Remember thinking it was like
> money in the bank. :(
>
> But boy did that sucker scream in the studio. :)

I fogot what I paid for my Apple //e 128kB memory expansion card ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 3/11/2012 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

> My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
> wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
> spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
> purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
> budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.

My second computer was a 99/4A. It was actually a 16 bit processor
beast, IIRC. :)

I used a GE cassette deck for a "hard drive". I wrote an oil and gas
lease records program on it, in TI basic, and actually sold a few copies
to clients at the time, who were tickled to get their lease records onto
something besides paper. I also started learning TI assembly language on
it ... that was a tough learn in those times, as there was not much
documentation.

That thing seemed like cutting edge at the time, at least if you
couldn't afford an IBM 360. Our company CPA actually used one for his
business at one point.

My oldest daughter, as a youngster, used to play on it using the
"Turtle" logo programming language.

The very first computer game I ever played (and may have been the last,
except Pong in a bar), "Pirate", was on the 99/4A. Totally text based,
and any "graphics" were totally and solely the result of your own
imagination.

Can you imagine that today? :)


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 3/11/2012 10:24 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:20:23 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/11/2012 6:18 AM, HeyBub wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> HeyBub wrote:
>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the
>>>>>>> box was crushed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test"
>>>>>>> that we used to use ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>>>>>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>>>>>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>>>>>> (like memory)
>>>>>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>>>>>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct.
>>>>> People who do that do not think like most of us.
>>>>
>>>> Please help me translate that last sentence.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Uh, okay. Sorry for the "whoosh" factor.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
>>> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>>> technology that's not really necessary.
>>>
>>
>> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)
>
> Yeah, just trade in that old house you're living in for one, complete
> with internal dust collection and Festool green LEDs.
>
> --
> Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.


The old house I am living in is 1 year old last Christmas.

On 3/12/2012 10:26 PM, Bill wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>>> With credit to the web site:
>>> http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml
>>>
>>> We have the following (bad) predictions:
>>> (Enjoy!)
>>>
>>> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas
>>> Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
>>
>> Nobody who has looked for a source for that statement has ever found it.
>> And it's questionable, as there was no such thing as a computer as we
>> know it in 1943 and IBM didn't have one until 1948, so why would he have
>> any opinion at all concerning the market for such devices?
>>
>> However it sounds much like what really did happen in 19_5_3, when IBM
>> went out 20 companies with a presentation about the 701, where they
>> expected to get at best 5 orders and they got 18.
>>
>
> You are probably right. The quote I went searching for was along the
> lines of the following one (and that brought me to the others):
>
> "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
>
> The long translation of the ENIAC reveals the way the EE's were thinking.



http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/proof.htm

Third picture down from the top....
THAT'S what they were thinking...

On 3/11/2012 10:39 PM, Matt wrote:
> On 3/11/2012 9:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 3/11/2012 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
>>> wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
>>> spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
>>> purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
>>> budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.
>>
>> My second computer was a 99/4A. It was actually a 16 bit processor
>> beast, IIRC. :)
>>
>> I used a GE cassette deck for a "hard drive". I wrote an oil and gas
>> lease records program on it, in TI basic, and actually sold a few copies
>> to clients at the time, who were tickled to get their lease records onto
>> something besides paper. I also started learning TI assembly language on
>> it ... that was a tough learn in those times, as there was not much
>> documentation.
>>
>> That thing seemed like cutting edge at the time, at least if you
>> couldn't afford an IBM 360. Our company CPA actually used one for his
>> business at one point.
>>
>> My oldest daughter, as a youngster, used to play on it using the
>> "Turtle" logo programming language.
>>
>> The very first computer game I ever played (and may have been the last,
>> except Pong in a bar), "Pirate", was on the 99/4A. Totally text based,
>> and any "graphics" were totally and solely the result of your own
>> imagination.
>>
>> Can you imagine that today? :)
>>
>>
> Began programming computers for a living on an IBM 360 mod 40 in October
> 1967. 128K of RAM, two 2311 disk drives, 3.96 MB capacity per drive,
> removable disks, 4 tape drives... those were the days. After a Vic 20
> then Vic 64 at home, I had a Heath 8086 machine for a while, 1228K RAM,
> 20MB hard drive - faster and more powerful than that 360 I started on!
> Things have sure changed over the years... LOL

I got a Heathkit H8 in the late 70's, but damn near went broke buying
peripherals for it to be of much use before switching to the 99/4A a
couple of years later.

The H8 was still a "religious experience" ... I was literally shaking in
anticipation the first time I fired it up. :)

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

J. Clarke wrote:

>
> He's looking for a status symbol. A quad core machine with 8 gig
> ram, a terabyte of disk, and a reasonably fancy video board can be
> had from Best Buy for about 800 bucks.

I know that we're all aware of this, but sometimes it still amazes me at how
the prices of computer hardware have plumetted so much. I remember when I
was with EMC back in the mid-90s and a terabyte of storage was a million
dollar investment. Granted - that was more than just a terabyte of disk,
but still...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

whit3rd wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>> was crushed.
>
>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
>> we used to use ...
>
> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
> (like memory)
> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>
> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
> agonize over imaginary problems.

He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct. People who do that do
not think like most of us.

I just bought five Dell desktops for $100 (total). If one or more of the
desktops act a little funny, well, no great loss.
=============================================================
486's

On 3/11/2012 2:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)
>
> Don't hold your breath Leon. Rumor has it no supplier is willing to paint a
> perfectly good cabinet that "green" color.
>
> They say it makes it look too much like a... sander.
>

Actually,......

http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-m18x/pd.aspx

On 3/11/2012 3:07 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 15:08:04 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> I know that we're all aware of this, but sometimes it still amazes me at how
>> the prices of computer hardware have plumetted so much. I remember when I
>> was with EMC back in the mid-90s and a terabyte of storage was a million
>> dollar investment. Granted - that was more than just a terabyte of disk,
>> but still...
>
> Shows you how spoiled we are these days. My first computer was a
> 386-16. The 80 meg hard drive in it cost me over $800 just for the
> drive itself.
>
> At one point, I upgraded the 1 meg of ram to 4 megs. Cost me a
> whopping $500 for that ram.

LOL, My first computer was an 8086, 640k ram, 2-5.25 floppys, no HD. I
later added a 30 meg HD for about $300.

On Fri, 09 Mar 2012 06:16:05 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 3/9/2012 4:01 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>Snip, Snip
>
>Snip, Snip
>
>Snip, Snip
>
>Snip, Snip
>
>Snip, Snip
>
>Snip, Snip
>
>
> Larry was able to peel me
>> off the ceiling, and now I can concentrate on getting this machine to
>> work.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
>Wasn't that what you were concerned about??? Send it back LOL.. ;~)

+1, although with the inner box showing no damage whatsoever, I'd be a
whole lot more relieved, too, were it my package.

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

Leon wrote:

>
> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)

Don't hold your breath Leon. Rumor has it no supplier is willing to paint a
perfectly good cabinet that "green" color.

They say it makes it look too much like a... sander.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the
>>>> box was crushed.
>>>
>>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test"
>>>> that we used to use ...
>>>
>>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>>> (like memory)
>>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>>
>>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>>
>
>> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct.
>> People who do that do not think like most of us.
>
> Please help me translate that last sentence.
>

Uh, okay. Sorry for the "whoosh" factor.

It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
technology that's not really necessary.

Used, last year's model, computers can be had at a significant bargain,
sometimes on Craigslist, often you have to search around.

I got my used computers from a chap that buys them in bulk from Dell and
others. These used computers are generally those that have come back off
lease to banks and other large companies.

Last time I was there he had about ten large pallets, stacked five feet
high, with 15" CRT monitors. In this country, you can't GIVE away a 15" CRT.
His monitors, however, were going to Nigeria. He told me he expects to net
about $25 each.

Point is, there's a thriving market for used equipment: CRT monitors to
Nigeria or two-year old desktops to me.

Josepi wrote:
> It fine just fine on my half page viewing.
>
> Mike needs to reduce his font size and stop displaying his old fogey
> syndrome! LOL
>
>

Fix your newsreader. My font size is 9 point. You are the only person ever
to comment on that. As for my old foggy syndrome - Sorry - too late to fix
that. I'm just over that edge.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:01:57 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:45:14 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>>was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
>>old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>>
>>(NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
>>shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
>>assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>>
>>I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
>>although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
>>which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
>>as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
>I understand your concern, but it sounds as though the packaging did
>its job. Items like a laptop are tested to withstand a minimum of 8
>drops from 36", possibly higher. The protective packaging is designed
>to take the force of the impact.
>
>OTOH, don't think that the perfect looking package did not suffer even
>more severe damage internally. Depends on how the damage was
>inflicted.

UPS regs say they can drop a package 15' onto a hard, concrete floor.
I've seen it happen. Conveyor systems are elevated in all UPS and
FedEX processing plants. It sounds like more than that happened to
Naily's unit.

--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:34 -0800, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:



>
>UPS regs say they can drop a package 15' onto a hard, concrete floor.
>I've seen it happen. Conveyor systems are elevated in all UPS and
>FedEX processing plants. It sounds like more than that happened to
>Naily's unit.

How did you come up with that conclusion? It is also possible than it
was not dropped at all, but the protective packaging material was
crushed when something was placed or dropped on it and inflicted no
damage.

FWIW, I've been in the protective packaging industry for the past 42
years so I've seen lots of different scenarios.

http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/PKG_Testing_Under150Lbs.pdf
http://www.theswisscolony.net/documents/SAPkgTstGuidelinesSmall-8-01-08_000.pdf

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:07:53 -0400, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:



>
>Shows you how spoiled we are these days. My first computer was a
>386-16. The 80 meg hard drive in it cost me over $800 just for the
>drive itself.
>
>At one point, I upgraded the 1 meg of ram to 4 megs. Cost me a
>whopping $500 for that ram.

My first computer was an 8088 with two 5 1/4" floppies. Eventually
added a 30MB HD for about $300 and that was in the 1980's. Another
upgrade was the 24 pin printer over the 9 pin.

My Pentium 90 was about $3500, but I did spend the extra $300 for the
17" monitor. That was over the cost of the 14" base model.

[email protected] wrote:
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert



Sisoftware makes a popular benchmarking program called Sandra. It has
many features. However, I don't believe the "burn in" feature is
turned-on in the version which is a free download. It's still a very
nice program to be aware of and may be helpful to you.

http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/?d=&f=home&l=en&a=

Bill

On 3/7/2012 9:36 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/6/2012 11:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
>> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> That damned Butch ... screw up everything!
>
> I would worry more about the hard drive than the memory.
>
> Can't imagine why RAM would be effected even it the laptop was thrown
> across the room.
>
> That said, MSFT had a memory test program on their website that could be
> burned to a CD. Memory diagnostics or something like that. You also want
> to back that up with another program, like memtest, as a matter of course.
>
> Having used, and dropped more than a few, of well over a hundred
> removable hard drives in the studio, they are pretty robust as long as
> they aren't running, the floor is carpeted, and you're not standing on a
> ladder.
>
> Use the built-in scan disk to test your hard drive. Unless there is
> visible signs of damage to the laptop exterior and something is
> rattling, I seriously doubt that you have a problem at all.
>
> All that notwithstanding, send that sucker in and get a new one. No
> sense in taking a chance ... or else get a subscription to Carbonite and
> protect the data you're going to put on it, just in case.
>

I don't know about all computers but there is a test for all components
for HP computers. It test memory, hard drives, the video card, and
other subsystems.

If there is damage, I believe it would be to the mechanical hard drive
and not to the solid state systems.

It would take a terrific jolt to cause physical parts to come together
to cause physical damage to a circuit board or other solid state system.

However why risk the problem when you can exchange it now for nothing,
the company that made the delivery not the computer manufacturer or
distributor that will ultimately pay.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:11:03 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

> I think I'd just send the thing back if it were mine. Be sure to write
> down the serial number so it doesn't come back.

This seems to be the nearly universal advice. I definitely agree with
it. A new computer has enough probability of failure during the first 6
months that you'd like to be sure it wasn't the shipping damage that was
responsible.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 3/9/2012 3:01 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mar 7, 9:49 pm, Ed Pawlowski<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> How did you come up with that conclusion? It is also possible than it
>> was not dropped at all, but the protective packaging material was
>> crushed when something was placed or dropped on it and inflicted no
>> damage.
>>
>> FWIW, I've been in the protective packaging industry for the past 42
>> years so I've seen lots of different scenarios.
>
> Thanks to everyone for their replies. I have been using the crap out
> of the machine and it seems to be in good order. Still testing, and
> looking at read/reread/write/testing software to make sure it is OK.
> So far so good.
> ED P. a special thanks to you. I got to thinking - hey, I should call
> MY buddy in the shipping business and let him look over this box and
> get his opinion. Ed, you were close without even seeing it. My pal
> Larry has been in and out of the shipping business for about 20 years
> as a pilot/loader/handler, jack of all trades for several cargo
> shippers, like a private label UPS, UPS, DHL and has even flown and
> loaded packages for FedEx. Working for a private carriers, he has
> handled mountains of packages for them.
>
> Larry immediately came to the conclusion that the box was indeed
> crushed, not dropped. He inspected for impact damage, punctures,
> localized compression (new term for me - that means large impact over
> a large area such as a large damaged corner that caused stress over
> 25% of the length) and other things.
>
> Sherlock Larry further concluded that the entire box had been
> compressed due to the corners showing parallel compression folds up
> the sides on all four corners in exactly the same fashion in exactly
> the same places. With the amount of compression, the tape popped,
> tearing off the thin skin of corrugated box. As he pointed out, the
> tape itself was not cut, torn or separated, just torn off the box top
> itself where it had adhered.
>
> We were able to replicate this action in my living room by pushing the
> box against the wall. It folded perfectly along the damage folds in
> the box when I compressed the entire face of the box against the wall,
> which he assured me was the box performing as it was designed to do.
> The box popped open because they did a crappy tape job ( Jeez... were
> they running out of tape when they mailed this to you? was his
> comment) and the tape tore off the top layer of paper on the
> corrugated box because the box was average or less quality.
>
> We put the box that held the computer itself (undamaged)back into the
> shipping box, and there was about 10" all the way around the computer
> box when inside the shipping box. They didn't use the best packing
> material (some kind of wound paper that was about a 6" tube about 15'
> long, but it did its job. His conclusion was that there probably
> wasn't any damage at all, that someone didn't see the box when loading
> and mashed some other freight against the box. I felt 100% better
> when we were able to recreate the mashing at will.
>
> Tiger Direct has been princely about this, and told me that they would
> extend the replacement window to 30 days. I have a one year accident
> policy, as well as a TWO year parts/labor one way shipping on this
> machine.
> I intend to test it unmercifally, get a backup service and put it to
> work. One unknown click, one hiccup, on pixel goes bad, and this
> machine is gone.
>
> So Ed, thanks for your post in particular. I appears that you were
> right on. And I had that great resource a phone call away and didn't
> even think to call him about this problem until you mentioned your
> long experience in the freight business. Larry was able to peel me
> off the ceiling, and now I can concentrate on getting this machine to
> work.
>
> Robert
>

if you bought it with some credit cards (amex for one), they double the
manufacturer warrantee. keep the receipt with your credit card statement
with the shipping paperwork to get them to honor this.

HeyBub wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>>> was crushed.
>>
>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
>>> we used to use ...
>>
>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>> (like memory)
>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>
>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>

> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct.
> People who do that do not think like most of us.

Please help me translate that last sentence.


>
> I just bought five Dell desktops for $100 (total). If one or more of the
> desktops act a little funny, well, no great loss.
>
>

HeyBub wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:45:14 PM UTC-8, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the
>>>>> box was crushed.
>>>>
>>>>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test"
>>>>> that we used to use ...
>>>>
>>>> Why? You didn't buy the box, you bought the computer. And, if
>>>> it isn't visibly physically damaged, and has normal
>>>> disk/screen/keyboard functions, why would you want to test things
>>>> (like memory)
>>>> that AREN'T particularly likely to take stress/shock damage?
>>>>
>>>> Discard the packaging and enjoy the computer; life's too short to
>>>> agonize over imaginary problems.
>>>
>>
>>> He bought the computer at retail from Tiger Direct.
>>> People who do that do not think like most of us.
>>
>> Please help me translate that last sentence.
>>
>
> Uh, okay. Sorry for the "whoosh" factor.
>
> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
> technology that's not really necessary.

Thanks for explaining. When I purchase, I stay at least a year behind
the newest models--and I use the stuff until I have decent reason to
replace it. I have found the strategy a good one for cars too!



>
> Used, last year's model, computers can be had at a significant bargain,
> sometimes on Craigslist, often you have to search around.
>
> I got my used computers from a chap that buys them in bulk from Dell and
> others. These used computers are generally those that have come back off
> lease to banks and other large companies.
>
> Last time I was there he had about ten large pallets, stacked five feet
> high, with 15" CRT monitors. In this country, you can't GIVE away a 15" CRT.
> His monitors, however, were going to Nigeria. He told me he expects to net
> about $25 each.
>
> Point is, there's a thriving market for used equipment: CRT monitors to
> Nigeria or two-year old desktops to me.
>
>

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 06:18:36 -0500, "HeyBub"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
>> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>> technology that's not really necessary.
>>
>
> Necessary to some. A guy at work is specing out a new computer. He
> is in the $1800 range with a fancy graphics card, Quad processor, lots
> of memory, etc. He needs it to store some music and pictures and his
> wife can check here Facebook page.
>
> Not to mention that he is also looking for the absolute lowest price,
> no matter the quality of the components.

When I selected the parts for my last computer I spec'ed it out with
regard to lowest *sound* (i.e. the quietest)! I have to share an office
with the thing and those "fancy graphics cards" can be loud. For
instance, my graphics card uses ambient cooling (with a big heat sink).
The power supply was also hand-selected. Price and speed aren't
everything; there is a non-trivial premium to be paid for quiet! : )

Leon wrote:
> On 3/11/2012 6:18 AM, HeyBub wrote:

>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
>> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>> technology that's not really necessary.
>>
>
> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)


LOL!

Leon wrote:
> On 3/11/2012 1:42 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 06:18:36 -0500, "HeyBub"<[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A
>>>> new
>>>> computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>>>> technology that's not really necessary.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Necessary to some. A guy at work is specing out a new computer. He
>>> is in the $1800 range with a fancy graphics card, Quad processor, lots
>>> of memory, etc. He needs it to store some music and pictures and his
>>> wife can check here Facebook page.
>>>
>>> Not to mention that he is also looking for the absolute lowest price,
>>> no matter the quality of the components.
>>
>> When I selected the parts for my last computer I spec'ed it out with
>> regard to lowest *sound* (i.e. the quietest)! I have to share an office
>> with the thing and those "fancy graphics cards" can be loud. For
>> instance, my graphics card uses ambient cooling (with a big heat sink).
>> The power supply was also hand-selected. Price and speed aren't
>> everything; there is a non-trivial premium to be paid for quiet! : )
>
> Oddly my 1 year old desk top had 5 fans, power supply, CPU, video card
> and 2 extra cooling fans. Really not loud at all. I know that some are
> quite noisy but this one really does not draw attention.

Maybe a little louder when you "rev it up"?

Mike Marlow wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>
>> He's looking for a status symbol. A quad core machine with 8 gig
>> ram, a terabyte of disk, and a reasonably fancy video board can be
>> had from Best Buy for about 800 bucks.
>
> I know that we're all aware of this, but sometimes it still amazes me at how
> the prices of computer hardware have plumetted so much. I remember when I
> was with EMC back in the mid-90s and a terabyte of storage was a million
> dollar investment. Granted - that was more than just a terabyte of disk,
> but still...
>

Yes, I agree that my recollection of prices that I have paid for stuff
in the past makes it easier to buy new hardware. I haven't jointed the
Apple I-gang, however. I just made that term up. Let me know if,
somehow, a definition is needed.

Mike Marlow wrote:

> BTW Bill - snip your posts.
>

I do. Thank you for the reminder.

On 3/11/2012 9:46 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:06:39 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/11/2012 2:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> NOT ME! I am just itching for Festool to come out with a computer. ;~)
>>>
>>> Don't hold your breath Leon. Rumor has it no supplier is willing to paint a
>>> perfectly good cabinet that "green" color.
>>>
>>> They say it makes it look too much like a... sander.
>>>
>>
>> Actually,......
>>
>> http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-m18x/pd.aspx
>
> No fair! They're using green LEDs, not green paint.
>
> My first comp was a $950 80286-12MHz screamer with two 5.25 floppies
> and a 10MB hard drive. I added a 20MB hard drive the next year for
> only $300. I think the comp came with 284k and I later upgraded to
> 640k and started using DesqVIEW to multitask with it. That was so
> -cool- at the time! I adopted Windows 3.0 shortly thereafter and
> probably saw 28,000 Blue Screens of Death before Win 3.1 came out and
> fixed most of that. Remember Norton Editor and Norton Commander? Ol
> Bill was truly a DOS God back then, before he sold his soul to
> SlymeAntics.
>
> --
> Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.

I up graded to a PC Junior, and finally to an Ambra (IBM) I ran IBM OS/2
on it for years.

An interesting side light. When I got the Ambra we were installing the
LAN for the company I worked for. Our first LAN software was OS/2 which
we ran for many trouble free years. At one point we had to upgrade to a
newer version of OS/2. One of the engineer who had worked there for 4
years got wind of what we were doing and came storming over wanting to
know why were installing such a bad piece of software. We told him he
had been using the "bad" software for 4 years and he never had a
problem. He left quietly.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:39:55 -0700, Matt wrote:

> Began programming computers for a living on an IBM 360 mod 40 in October
> 1967. 128K of RAM, two 2311 disk drives, 3.96 MB capacity per drive,
> removable disks, 4 tape drives... those were the days. After a Vic 20
> then Vic 64 at home, I had a Heath 8086 machine for a while, 1228K RAM,
> 20MB hard drive - faster and more powerful than that 360 I started on!
> Things have sure changed over the years... LOL

Well, I can't let you and Doug walk off with the old time computer
prize :-).

My first stored program computer was the Readix in 1956. A minuscule
drum memory, an oscilloscope and a Flexowriter for console, and punched
card I/O.

My second computer, since nobody ever heard of the first, was Univac II
in 1957 or '58 at GE's Appliance Park in KY. 2000 decimal words of
memory and 10 tape drives. All the other peripherals were off-line and
either read or wrote tape (metallic film and weighed a ton). We even had
a "keypunch" that wrote to tape instead of cards. And a tape to
telephone to send/receive data from a GE plant in Texas.

I am oversimplifying. Somewhere in the same time frame as Readix/Univac
was an IBM 650 and a 305 Ramac, and a lot of semi-intelligent punched
card calculating machines.

My first home computer was a TRS80 around '75 or '76. Then an S100 bus
Z80 system with a 5mb disk, and then a 286 with a "turbo" mode to start
me on the current era.

My favorite GE story. Louisville didn't know how to deal with snow.
More than an inch would shut the town down. GE ran announcements on the
radio that second shift was canceled and everyone should stay home
"except for computer operations". That was me! I told my boss the least
he could do was use my name :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 3/11/2012 9:03 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 3/11/2012 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>
>>>> My first computer was also a TI99/4a with a total of 16kb of ram. I
>>>> wrote my first basic program on a TI-99/4a. It was a very basic
>>>> spreadsheet that filled up the memory the first time I ran it. I
>>>> purchased a spreadsheet for it and used it to develop my departments
>>>> budget. It was better that a paper spreadsheet.
>>>
>>> My second computer was a 99/4A. It was actually a 16 bit processor
>>> beast, IIRC. :)
>>>
>>> I used a GE cassette deck for a "hard drive". I wrote an oil and gas
>>> lease records program on it, in TI basic, and actually sold a few copies
>>> to clients at the time, who were tickled to get their lease records onto
>>> something besides paper. I also started learning TI assembly language on
>>> it ... that was a tough learn in those times, as there was not much
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> That thing seemed like cutting edge at the time, at least if you
>>> couldn't afford an IBM 360. Our company CPA actually used one for his
>>> business at one point.
>>>
>>> My oldest daughter, as a youngster, used to play on it using the
>>> "Turtle" logo programming language.
>>>
>>> The very first computer game I ever played (and may have been the last,
>>> except Pong in a bar), "Pirate", was on the 99/4A. Totally text based,
>>> and any "graphics" were totally and solely the result of your own
>>> imagination.
>>>
>>> Can you imagine that today? :)
>>>
>>>
>> Began programming computers for a living on an IBM 360 mod 40 in October
>> 1967. 128K of RAM, two 2311 disk drives, 3.96 MB capacity per drive,
>> removable disks, 4 tape drives... those were the days. After a Vic 20
>> then Vic 64 at home, I had a Heath 8086 machine for a while, 1228K RAM,
>> 20MB hard drive - faster and more powerful than that 360 I started on!
>> Things have sure changed over the years... LOL
>
> I remember being told in 1974 or thereabouts that microprocessors would
> always be toys--they had to use MOS and MOS would never achieve clock
> speeds higher than a few MHz and that no micro would ever be as fast as
> Illiac IV. I just ran Whestone on my 600 buck Gateway. THIRTEEN
> GIGAFLOPS.
>

With credit to the web site:
http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml

We have the following (bad) predictions:
(Enjoy!)

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas
Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.

"Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes
and weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum
tubes and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, 1949

"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with
the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that
won't last out the year." -- The editor in charge of business books for
Prentice Hall, 1957.

"But what...is it good for?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing
Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken
Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

>

On 3/12/12 2:21 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> All this old timer talk about computers. The only thing older than these
> machines is me. My THIRD computer was an original IBM, with two floppies
> and 128 k memory. On floppy for the software and another for storage. It
> was all the rage at the time.
>
> My SECOND computer was an Epson! Yep, the printer people had a CPM
> system out for awhile.

QX-10 maybe? I had one of those, nice bit mapped green screen, fair
resolution for the day.

>
> Mt first was a....., I can't remember the name of it. It looked like a
> metal suitcase and had a giant 9 inch monitor built into it. It was also
> a cpm machine. Was that an Osbourne?
>
Osbourne or maybe a Kaypro are most likely.

> Damn, I feel like some kinda prehistoric techy fossil.
>
Yep.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

>My first computer was a week on a B5500 in 1974.
Good grief!

That's very gratifying to hear; they were definitely over the hill by 1974.
I still keep a little plug-in circuit module from a B5500 in my desk drawer.

Art

On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:21:08 -0400, Lee Michaels wrote:

> Actually, my first involvement with computers was back in 1964 - 65,
> when I was in 8th grade.

<snip>

>
> Damn, I feel like some kinda prehistoric techy fossil.
>

Naah - just another newbie :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>> With credit to the web site:
>> http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml
>>
>> We have the following (bad) predictions:
>> (Enjoy!)
>>
>> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas
>> Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
>
> Nobody who has looked for a source for that statement has ever found it.
> And it's questionable, as there was no such thing as a computer as we
> know it in 1943 and IBM didn't have one until 1948, so why would he have
> any opinion at all concerning the market for such devices?
>
> However it sounds much like what really did happen in 19_5_3, when IBM
> went out 20 companies with a presentation about the 701, where they
> expected to get at best 5 orders and they got 18.
>

You are probably right. The quote I went searching for was along the
lines of the following one (and that brought me to the others):

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

The long translation of the ENIAC reveals the way the EE's were thinking.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:53:52 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> However it sounds much like what really did happen in 19_5_3, when IBM
> went out 20 companies with a presentation about the 701, where they
> expected to get at best 5 orders and they got 18.

At one time I had a copy of an IBM study from that time period. It
disappeared in one of our moves but IIRC it predicted a market somewhere
in the teens.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 3/14/2012 12:01 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Josepi wrote:
>> It fine just fine on my half page viewing.
>>
>> Mike needs to reduce his font size and stop displaying his old fogey
>> syndrome! LOL
>>
>>
>
> Fix your newsreader. My font size is 9 point. You are the only person ever
> to comment on that. As for my old foggy syndrome - Sorry - too late to fix
> that. I'm just over that edge.

Mike, troll or not, his font size is his font size, not yours.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:45:14 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
>old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
>(NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
>shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
>assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
>I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
>although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
>which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
>as an emergency replacement if I need one.

I understand your concern, but it sounds as though the packaging did
its job. Items like a laptop are tested to withstand a minimum of 8
drops from 36", possibly higher. The protective packaging is designed
to take the force of the impact.

OTOH, don't think that the perfect looking package did not suffer even
more severe damage internally. Depends on how the damage was
inflicted.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:49:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:16:34 -0800, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>UPS regs say they can drop a package 15' onto a hard, concrete floor.
>>I've seen it happen. Conveyor systems are elevated in all UPS and
>>FedEX processing plants. It sounds like more than that happened to
>>Naily's unit.
>
>How did you come up with that conclusion?

When I wanted to ship something via UPS eons ago, it was written in
their guidelines for packaging. And it's likely that Robert wasn't
reacting to a simple ding on one end of the package. Most of us see
and accept dinged packages, but we hold the deliveryman if there is
more than just a wrinkle, making sure he either notes the damage in
his recorder before he leaves or watches us open the package. Most
people don't react like that or ask for assistance on a minor crease
in a the cardboard box, knowwhatImean,Vern?


>It is also possible than it
>was not dropped at all, but the protective packaging material was
>crushed when something was placed or dropped on it and inflicted no
>damage.

Yes, that is a possibility. Not having seen the package, I couldn't
say. I added the possibility of a twist to the scenario, too.


>FWIW, I've been in the protective packaging industry for the past 42
>years so I've seen lots of different scenarios.
>
>http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/PKG_Testing_Under150Lbs.pdf
>http://www.theswisscolony.net/documents/SAPkgTstGuidelinesSmall-8-01-08_000.pdf

Then you should know that the test procedures are not actually
representative of what can happen in the real world. Ideally, the
foam packaging absorbs almost all of the impact, but a 15' fall onto a
single corner just might overstress the packaging. I wonder if Robert
has pics...

--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer

[email protected] (Arthur Shapiro) writes:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>My first computer was a week on a B5500 in 1974.
>Good grief!
>
>That's very gratifying to hear; they were definitely over the hill by 1974.
>I still keep a little plug-in circuit module from a B5500 in my desk drawer.
>
>Art

I have a couple of plug-in circuit modules from that era, probably B3500 or
perhaps electrodata systems from when we moved out of the basement in Pasadena.

scott

On Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:59:22 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> Then you should know that the test procedures are not actually
>> representative of what can happen in the real world. Ideally, the
>> foam packaging absorbs almost all of the impact, but a 15' fall onto a
>> single corner just might overstress the packaging. I wonder if Robert
>> has pics...
>
>But it may or may not overstress the contents. One of my customers required
>a 26' drop (yes 26 feet). That was to simulate the drop from the cargo hold
>of and airplane. The package can be damaged, but the radioactive product
>could not leak.

One would certainly -hope- not, eh?

--
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering WTF happened.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2012 06:18:36 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price. A new
>computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the newest
>technology that's not really necessary.
>

Necessary to some. A guy at work is specing out a new computer. He
is in the $1800 range with a fancy graphics card, Quad processor, lots
of memory, etc. He needs it to store some music and pictures and his
wife can check here Facebook page.

Not to mention that he is also looking for the absolute lowest price,
no matter the quality of the components.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
> Well, if one or more does act "funny" like my wifes old Dell, it may
> well be a result of bad electrolytic capacitors. Her PC started
> hanging with no other indications. I opened it up and six or eight
> of the electrolytics were bulging out the top. Sent the MB to these
> guys:
> http://www.badcaps.net/
>
> Got it back for under a hundred bucks with every electrolytic on the
> MB replaced. Been working great now for almost a year where it was
> hanging every few hours before.
>
> Apparently, the chiwanese have been shipping electrolytics for all
> kinds of devices that were like many of their other products.
>
> I also had a rocketfish wireless speaker receiver fail for the same
> reason. I may try to see if I can replace the bad caps myself as I
> already hard wired the surround speakers.
>
> The cheapest components to produce the cheapest product doesn't always
> pay off for the consumer.

Good point. I salvaged a 36" LCD TV that had bad capacitors. For about six
bucks worth of replacement caps and a couple of hours with a screwdriver and
soldering iron, the TV is as good as new.

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 06:52:29 -0700, Doug Winterburn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 03/06/2012 10:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
>> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
>> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>>
>> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
>> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
>> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>>
>> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
>> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
>> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
>> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>>
>> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
>> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
>> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
>> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
>> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>>
>> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
>> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
>> window.
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
>> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>>
>> Thanks -
>>
>> Robert
>
>Here's a good standalone memory tester: http://www.memtest.org/
>
>Download, write to a CD, boot up the CD and let it grind.

Memory is the last thing I'd think damaged in shipping. And with all
the pins on newer memory, they stay in their sockets very, very well.


>I'd be more concerned about hard drive shock damage than MB/memory damage.

And I'd be worried that the whole thing got twisted, too. Mama is now
arcing internally, the drive head is angled, and the display is
tweaked but still working. Joys!

--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer

I guy at work asked for advice on a new computer and told me it came with a
80 MByte HDD. I asked him what he intended to do with all that storage. It
was ridiculously oversized!

---------
"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I once paid $800 for 8MB of memory. Remember thinking it was like money
in the bank. :(

But boy did that sucker scream in the studio. :)

Bill wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that most participants here are interested in price.
>> A new computer costs, well, a lot and often you're paying for the
>> newest technology that's not really necessary.
>
> Thanks for explaining. When I purchase, I stay at least a year behind
> the newest models--and I use the stuff until I have decent reason to
> replace it. I have found the strategy a good one for cars too!
>
>

Heh! One of the five $20 Dells I bought turned out to be a snail-paced
930MHz.

So I relegated it to the table where CDs are duplicated.

For that application, it works swell.

On the other hand, there are uses for the latest lickety-split,
double-clutched model.

For example, if you don't save the universe, who will?

On 3/6/2012 11:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I just got a new laptop, delivered today. One big problem; the box
> was crushed. The monkey men of UPS did their best impression of the
> old Samsonite commercial and really mashed it.
>
> (NO advice needed on how to proceed with a claim, informing the
> shipper, documentation for the vendor, damage claim number
> assignments, photographic evidence, etc.)
>
> I am really concerned that this machine could have been damaged,
> although it seems to be performing OK. I have a 72 hour window in
> which the vendor will send out a new one without charging my account
> as an emergency replacement if I need one.
>
> I am looking for a program like the old "Burn In" and "PC Test" that
> we used to use that is for Windows 7. Those programs tested all
> memory sectors, HD sectors, and did hours of read/write exercises,
> cache filling and dumping and CPU tests. You wound up the programs
> and let them go, and a few hours later you had your results.
>
> I can't find anything like that for Windows 7, and want to test ALL
> aspects of this machine within my "emergency replacement" time frame
> window.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? A program that you have personal
> experience with or know someone that has used it successfully?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Robert

Robert I would still get a replacement. That said, the manufacturer
"should" have the program you are looking for and should be more than
happy to send or point you to how to get it. I know Dell used to have
more of these testing programs than you could shake a stick at and they
might be on a secret section on your HD.