I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack and
it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is totally
unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
just really pissed me off tonight.
--
HomeBrewer
http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
www.rcparkflyers.com
Remove the xxx to reply!
Is that where you have been getting your dry wall screws at? LOL
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Naw. it's an Asian knock off shop.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Aw Mike, I bet McNeeleys is the wholesale name of McFeeleys.. ;~)
> >
> >
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Ooop's; that's Mcfeely's. Sorry about that
> >
> >
>
>
Ooop's; that's Mcfeely's. Sorry about that
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Visit the McNealy's site and get their catalog. They are, unless I am out
> and in desperate need, the only screws I use. Haven't had one fail on me
> yet.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
> and
> > it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step
stool
> > I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things
that
> > bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
> totally
> > unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> > just really pissed me off tonight.
> >
> >
> > --
> > HomeBrewer
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> > www.rcparkflyers.com
> > Remove the xxx to reply!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
There was a tech article by Lee Valley that talked about how #8 screws
aren't always #8 screws. One big difference is if they are rolled or
cut threaded. Another I'm sure is who the maker is. They claim - and
probably know - that using charts isn't much good anymore since there
is such a wide variance in actual size vrs. claimed size. Just like
3/4" (23/32") plywood, 2x4 (1 3/4" x 3 1/2) studs, and anything else
they can shrink in size and grow in price.
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:47:06 -0600, "HomeBrewer"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I would guess that your predrilled holes may have been undersized.
>
>
>I thought the same thing at first. I used one of thosenifty tools that have
>a drill bit and counter sink on one end and then you flip it to the phillips
>head screwdriver. It was rated for #8 screws. I tried the next size bit and
>the screws didn't break, but they didn't tighten either. I'm thinking about
>taking the broken screws back to Lowes just to show them the crap they are
>selling. But I'm sure they know that.
This is the quality you can expect from China and it's replacing American
products and jobs *the price is no bargain either* The only ones who make a
killing are executive corporate management. Outsource CEO's!!!
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
Are you sure they were wood screws and not DRY WALL screws? No slight
intended, jus asking.
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
> In my experience, drywall screw heads will easily twist off in
> hardwood. I've used them by the hundred in tubafours and plywood,
> where only occasionally a head will come off. I'll agree they're fine
> for that.
>
> Real wood screws aren't that expensive to use in furniture.
>
> Barry
Interesting. I have had the opposite experience with drywall screws. In
fact, this past weekend I broke the philips head drill bit in a drywall
screw, but the screw remained intact. The drywall screws are definitely
harder than the drill bits, because I go through those bits like nobody's
business.
Brian.
Home Brewer wrote:
Group: rec.woodworking Date: Mon, Feb 9, 2004, 9:23pm (EST-1) From:
[email protected] (HomeBrewer)
I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step
stool I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these
things that bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where?
That is totally unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford
the change, but it just really pissed me off tonight.
--
HomeBrewer
******************************************************
I work mostly in oak, buy my wood screws a hundred in a box at a time
from HD and have no trouble with them breaking off. But I use a taper
drill and beeswax Incidently, a twist drill made for drilling metal is
no good for wood. It will actually bend and follow the grain, resultng
in a crooked hole that the screw cannot follow.
Peace ~ Sir Edgar
=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=
=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8=F8
Home Brewer writes:
>
>I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack and
>it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
>I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
>bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is totally
>unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
>just really pissed me off tonight.
Go with Jim Ray at www.mcfeelys.com
If those were brass screws, though, you're going to continue to have twist offs
unless you go up a hair on thepilot hole size and wax the threads before
driving the screws.
Stainless steel will help, but you're not getting 10 of them for 88 cents.
Charlie Self
"Why isn't there a special name for the tops of your feet?" Lily Tomlin
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
"John Keeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Where appearance isn't a big issue there is no substitute for drywall
> screws.
> Three pound box for a couple of bucks.
Not really.. Way too brittle, and way to light weight for working with hard
woods. Save them for dry wall. Been there, done that , and have the torn
T-shirt.
Had some cousins that built a barn from 'well seasoned' white oak and had to
put lard on the nails before they drove them to keep them from just bending
flat against the oak beams.
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Some of it probably is the quality of the screws from HD. However, if you
> put some beeswax (not soap, not car wax, not paste wax), they may turn
> easier. I had this problem, and used beeswax, and the crappy HD screws
> worked.
>
> A while back, someone posted a table that they got off a web site - may
have
> been McFeeleys - it told you exactly what size bit to use for what size
> screw, depending on whether or not you were using hardwood, or soft. I'd
> also search McFeeleys and see if that table is there. Sorry I don't have
> the link, I just printed the table out, and threw it in my WW Reference
> file.
>
> Interestingly, I used some screws I bought from Lee Valley, didn't use
> beeswax, and had no problem.
>
> FWIW
>
> Nick B
>
> "HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
> and
> > it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step
stool
> > I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things
that
> > bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
> totally
> > unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> > just really pissed me off tonight.
> >
> >
> > --
> > HomeBrewer
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> > www.rcparkflyers.com
> > Remove the xxx to reply!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
ah. See I can imagine a torn T-shirt. School was one place you always saw
stuff happen. Like the kid who got his short sleeve caught in the lathe!
Oh well.
--
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ohhhh... sorry... that was a cliché...The torn t-shirt was a story...
> sorta... the t-shirt is torn but not from a screw... just worn out..
LOL
>
>
>
> "Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Not doubting at all. Torn T-shirts from a little piece of metal makes
for
> a
> > good "what not to do" story.
>
>
"KYHighlander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Man those Lowe's screws suck, I broke more while building my
cabinetmaker's
> bench than I can count. The ones that didn't break I stripped the heads on
> and they are too soft for a 'screwout' to work.
>
> Kreg square drive screws are what I'm about to go to, I'll buy them mail
> order and the shipping will suck, but they will be a lot less trouble. Or
> maybe the McFeely screws they are square drive as well.
Where appearance isn't a big issue there is no substitute for drywall
screws.
Three pound box for a couple of bucks.
> "HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
> and
> > it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step
stool
> > I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things
that
> > bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
> totally
> > unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> > just really pissed me off tonight.
HomeBrewer <[email protected]> wrote:
: I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack and
: it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
: I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
: bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is totally
: unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
: just really pissed me off tonight.
: --
: HomeBrewer
Your problem is not thescrews. If you seleted the right pilot hole
bit it's not the pilot hole bit.
Your problem is that when drivign screws into oak or other hardwoods
you have to lubricate them first. Some use beeswax (the real thing). I
like to use linseed oil as that helps keep the wood fresh.
Use what you like, but you must lubricate the screw.
--- Gregg
My woodworking projects:
Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html
Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm
Steambending FAQ with photos:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."
[email protected]
Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
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customers drift off to free webmail services install your own
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mttt <[email protected]> wrote:
: "HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
:>
:>
:> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
:> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
: totally
: Run, don't walk - to McFeely's web site.
: Buy their screws and a couple of square drive bits.
: You will never worry about it again.
What does the square drive have to do with the phenomenon of the
screws twisting apart?
--- Gregg
My woodworking projects:
Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html
Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm
Steambending FAQ with photos:
http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."
[email protected]
Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
Want to have instant messaging, and chat rooms, and discussion
groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble!
-- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dbabble.htm ----
"Mike Coonrod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Reminds me of of the time I got four boxes of finish nails at menards.
> I don't know what these things were made of but my guess was soft lead;
I've, now this is not shit, got some finishing nails that I believe to be
annealed aluminum. They're nearly as big around as an 8 but less than
an inch long and painted a tan color. I'm not really sure where they
came from but they have an amazing low holding power and will
bend when driven in to soft pine if not done carefully.
I've kept them because they have some small utility for hanging
light items.
> at least that is what it felt like. I could not get one of these
> nails in if my life depended on it; didn't matter if it was fur, pine,
> balsa! I did go back and tell the manager and he said, "well you need
> the hard wood nails" which were great by the way. I asked him why he
> stocks 90% crap nails and 10% good nails...blank stair. I challenged
> him to pound one in a pallet that was right there. Between them, the
> store manager, hardware assistant, and a couple workers, they got 2 in
> about 25 tries.
>
> What a joke.
>
> HomeBrewer wrote:
> > I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> > it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step
stool
> > I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things
that
> > bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> > unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> > just really pissed me off tonight.
Generally speaking, and in varying degrees:
Soap is hydroscopic.
Wax is hydrophobic.
--
Think thrice, measure twice and cut once.
Sanding is like paying taxes ... everyone has to do it, but it is
important to take steps to minimize it.
There is only one period and no underscores in the real email address.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
Actually I haven't used very many recently. I try to stick to glue and
small nails. I hate holes and filling them.
--
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK... Let me try to say this again.
>
>
> Well, I got tired of using #6 and #7 screws and having them break on every
> piece. With furniture you should be using at least a #8 screw unless
> dealing with some thin of delicate wood. You will probably get tired of
> them sooner or later or one days see the difference... ;~)
>
>
>
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > never had a problem and they counter sink better for me.
> > >
> > > --
> >
> >
>
>
Drywall screws slow me down too much, everytime I pick one up I have to put
on my reading glasses and hunt down a pair of tweezers to pluck the darn
burr out of my finger.
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"John Keeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "KYHighlander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Man those Lowe's screws suck, I broke more while building my
> cabinetmaker's
> > bench than I can count. The ones that didn't break I stripped the heads
on
> > and they are too soft for a 'screwout' to work.
> >
> > Kreg square drive screws are what I'm about to go to, I'll buy them mail
> > order and the shipping will suck, but they will be a lot less trouble.
Or
> > maybe the McFeely screws they are square drive as well.
>
> Where appearance isn't a big issue there is no substitute for drywall
> screws.
> Three pound box for a couple of bucks.
>
> > "HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each
pack
> > and
> > > it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step
> stool
> > > I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things
> that
> > > bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
> > totally
> > > unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but
it
> > > just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
now that sounds like a story.
--
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2K5Wb.2260$3%[email protected]...
>
> "John Keeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >
> > Where appearance isn't a big issue there is no substitute for drywall
> > screws.
> > Three pound box for a couple of bucks.
>
>
> Not really.. Way too brittle, and way to light weight for working with
hard
> woods. Save them for dry wall. Been there, done that , and have the torn
> T-shirt.
>
>
>
>
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Some of it probably is the quality of the screws from HD. However, if you
>put some beeswax (not soap, not car wax, not paste wax),
Why not soap or paste wax? I've had good luck with both (I think,
unless you tell me that the screws are all corroding away now<g>).
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
Run, don't walk - to McFeely's web site.
Buy their screws and a couple of square drive bits.
You will never worry about it again.
"Jerry Gilreath" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:P6fWb.273800$xy6.1388692@attbi_s02...
> Ok, I got to ask this. Is McFreely's square drive a different size drive
> than any other square drive? I keep seeing everybody say to get a few bits
> while they're getting screws. Just wondering if the Roberson?, Robertson?,
> square drive bits I already have would work.
>
> --
> "Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
> They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
> Homer Simpson
> Jerry© The Phoneman®
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Not a lot but it is what McFeely's sells.
> >
> > If you want pluses for the square drive, they won't cam out and, until
you
> > wear it down, the screw kind of locks onto the square driver bit. Really
> > nice for those hard to get at places or overhead.
> >
> > --
> > Mike G.
snip
Ahh to be from Canada, where decent square drive screws (and the bits for
them) are as close as the local Home Hardware or Bolt and Nut Supply. There
the prices, quality and selection are better than the BORG.=) Then there is
an independent hardware store close where it is easy for me to spend an hour
looking at all the different fasteners. Or when I'm in the area - a half
hour drive - the nearest Lee Valley. I guess that is something of a gloat,
take 'em where you can get'em.
For the record, there is a difference between square drive and Robertson. On
Robertson, a licensed design, the side walls of the recess slope in slightly
towards the bottom, top edge has a slight chamfer to it, and maybe some
other stuff I don't know. Square drive are the generic version, biggest
difference being the side walls are parallel. As for the bits, they're
interchangeable, except perhaps in the case of the #4, which I didn't know
existed until I picked some up a couple weeks ago, wound up making do with a
large Phillips bit. I have yet to find the driver for it. Posi-drive seem
like a decent option, but my experience with them has been limited to when
they're included with hardware.
For a good book on the subject try One Good Turn: A Natural History of the
Screwdriver and the Screw by Witold Rybczynski. A quick read, interesting
for the style of writing as well as the topic.
Cheers,
Jeffo
Gregg,
Actually - nothing!
The reason almost everyone is recommending Square Drive screws is that they
were originally designed for production environments like furniture
factories or even Henry Ford's Model A assembly line in the 30's where
breakage is not just an aggravation, it can stop production. (Not to
minimize the impact that a broken screw has on any woodworker.)
While I can't speak to the strength standards of other fastener suppliers, I
can tell you that we spec our Square Drive screws for higher torque strength
than common screws. In fact, as has been reported here and elsewhere, many
of the square drive screws sold in BORG's are not much better than the
slotted screws that they replaced on the shelf. Since the store manager
really doesn't know the difference, the fact that the screws he orders use
that "new-fangled" square drive is good enough (but quite possibly not good
enough for the customer). As you figured out, the drive type is immaterial
to the screw strength - there are some very high quality screws with
Phillips recesses, torx recesses, tri-wing recesses, etc. The key to screw
strength is the steel used and the heat treating process. That's why is is
worth knowing your supplier!
HTH
Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com
"Gregg Germain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> mttt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : "HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> : news:[email protected]...
> :>
> :>
> :> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things
that
> :> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
> : totally
>
> : Run, don't walk - to McFeely's web site.
> : Buy their screws and a couple of square drive bits.
> : You will never worry about it again.
>
> What does the square drive have to do with the phenomenon of the
> screws twisting apart?
>
>
> --- Gregg
>
> My woodworking projects:
>
>
> Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html
>
> Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm
>
> Steambending FAQ with photos:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm
>
>
> "Improvise, adapt, overcome."
> [email protected]
> Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
> Phone: (617) 496-1558
>
> ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
> Want to have instant messaging, and chat rooms, and discussion
> groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble!
> -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dbabble.htm ----
I read another article - again not sure if Wood or Popular Mechanics, or
some other mag., about drywall screws vs. wood screws. If you use drywall
screws, you should make sure that they are the ones with the tighter thread
pattern and that are not smooth just under the head. The problem is that on
those (with the wider pattern and smooth under the head), I read, is that
they do not pull the two pieces of wood together evenly, and don't hold
evenly (depending on the thickness of the wood). This can cause a loose or
weak connection.
The illustration that went with the article made it obivious - but I don't
think I have the ability to describe it in words. Ever since then, when I
use drywall screws in wood, I make sure it use the tighter thread pattern.
FWIW -
Nick B
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Are you sure they were wood screws and not DRY WALL screws? No slight
> > intended, jus asking.
>
> Yep, they are wood screws..Like someone posted earlier, the black drywall
> screws are 10 times stronger than these wood screws.
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
>
Yep, HD screws also suck. Go for something from McFeeley's or
Jamestown Distributors for brass. I've never twisted off a McFeeley's
screw yet.
Can't go wrong with the screws avail from McFleely's.
RT
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
>
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Are you sure they were wood screws and not DRY WALL screws? No slight
> > intended, jus asking.
>
> Yep, they are wood screws..Like someone posted earlier, the black drywall
> screws are 10 times stronger than these wood screws.
And Dry wall screws are about half way between the screws you are
complaining about and the McFeeleys square drive screws.
Not doubting at all. Torn T-shirts from a little piece of metal makes for a
good "what not to do" story.
--
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think you will find that my story will be backed up by most any
> experienced woodworker in this thread.
>
>
> "Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > now that sounds like a story.
> >
>
>
I think you will find that my story will be backed up by most any
experienced woodworker in this thread.
"Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> now that sounds like a story.
>
never had a problem and they counter sink better for me.
--
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dry wall screws are too brittle for regular woodworking and for most
> practical purposes too small in gauge. I think we have all used them at
one
> time or another until we learned to use the square drive screws.
>
>
> "Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > In my experience, drywall screw heads will easily twist off in
> > > hardwood. I've used them by the hundred in tubafours and plywood,
> > > where only occasionally a head will come off. I'll agree they're fine
> > > for that.
> > >
> > > Real wood screws aren't that expensive to use in furniture.
> > >
> > > Barry
> >
> > Interesting. I have had the opposite experience with drywall screws.
In
> > fact, this past weekend I broke the philips head drill bit in a drywall
> > screw, but the screw remained intact. The drywall screws are definitely
> > harder than the drill bits, because I go through those bits like
nobody's
> > business.
> >
> > Brian.
> >
> >
>
>
Leon,
You're right, I just checked some screws I bought in boxes 10-15 years ago
and some were made in China, but the quality of the screws I have seem to be
better and they didn't strip out as easily or were as poorly finished as the
ones I just bought. It might be the middle man and their profit margin
determining the quality.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > This is the quality you can expect from China and it's replacing
American
> > products and jobs *the price is no bargain either* The only ones who
make
> a
> > killing are executive corporate management. Outsource CEO's!!!
>
>
> Ron those cheesy screws have been around for very long time. I
remembering
> buying the same low quality ones in the plastic packages back in the mid
> 70's. Regardless of where they are from, they are normally inferior in
> quality. Had the one back in the 70's been better quality there may not
> have been an opening for the Chinese ones.
>
>
>
>
Jerry Gilreath wrote:
> Ok, I got to ask this. Is McFreely's square drive a different size drive
> than any other square drive? I keep seeing everybody say to get a few bits
> while they're getting screws. Just wondering if the Roberson?, Robertson?,
> square drive bits I already have would work.
McFeely's are standard-sized. If I recall correctly, almost all
are #2 with the exception of (small-headed) trim screws, which
are #1.
--
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
It sounds like I'm not alone. I too have found a drastic drop in woodscrew
quality. Fortunately I'm from Canada and we've had Square Drive ( Robertson)
screws for as long as I can remember. I've been using them for 40 years and
sure, you may break one or two a month, but I can also break a 5/16th bolt
if I'm not carefull.
The influx of cheap screws ( I think they're 50% zinc and 50% aluminum)
started around the time the BORG stores came to Canada. I only purchase
Scrulox wood screws www.robertsonscrew.com They're sold all over
NorthAmerica and are no more expensive than the cheap junk.
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
Ok, I got to ask this. Is McFreely's square drive a different size drive
than any other square drive? I keep seeing everybody say to get a few bits
while they're getting screws. Just wondering if the Roberson?, Robertson?,
square drive bits I already have would work.
--
"Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
Homer Simpson
Jerry© The Phoneman®
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not a lot but it is what McFeely's sells.
>
> If you want pluses for the square drive, they won't cam out and, until you
> wear it down, the screw kind of locks onto the square driver bit. Really
> nice for those hard to get at places or overhead.
>
> --
> Mike G.
> [email protected]
> Heirloom Woods
> www.heirloom-woods.net
> "Gregg Germain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > mttt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > What does the square drive have to do with the phenomenon of the
> > screws twisting apart?
> >
>
>
"HomeBrewer" wrote in message
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
Wood screws at the BORG's are just about what you'd expect in the finest,
Asian pot metal ... forget'em. Go to McFeely's online, or a local cabinet
maker's supply, or hardware store that has yet to be assimilated, and get
the quality screws your woodworking projects deserve.
Its got to the point that no self-respecting wooddorker will put up with the
woodworking expendables at the BORGS ... leave such trash to the modern
"custom builders" and yuppie DIY'ers who watch too much TV.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Well I got tired of using #6 and #7 screws and having breaks them on every
piece. With furniture you should be using at least a #8 screw un less
sealing with some thin of delicate wood. You will probably get tired of
them sooner or later or one day see the difference... ;~)
"Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> never had a problem and they counter sink better for me.
>
> --
IIRC those should work fine unless you get the "plated non corrosive"
screws. Then you would want to order the slightly undersized bits. The
slightly undersized bits work much better with those type screws.
"Jerry Gilreath" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:P6fWb.273800$xy6.1388692@attbi_s02...
> Ok, I got to ask this. Is McFreely's square drive a different size drive
> than any other square drive? I keep seeing everybody say to get a few bits
> while they're getting screws. Just wondering if the Roberson?, Robertson?,
> square drive bits I already have would work.
>
> --
> "Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
> They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
> Homer Simpson
> Jerry© The Phoneman®
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Not a lot but it is what McFeely's sells.
> >
> > If you want pluses for the square drive, they won't cam out and, until
you
> > wear it down, the screw kind of locks onto the square driver bit. Really
> > nice for those hard to get at places or overhead.
> >
> > --
> > Mike G.
> > [email protected]
> > Heirloom Woods
> > www.heirloom-woods.net
> > "Gregg Germain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > mttt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > What does the square drive have to do with the phenomenon of the
> > > screws twisting apart?
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Ohhhh... sorry... that was a cliché...The torn t-shirt was a story...
sorta... the t-shirt is torn but not from a screw... just worn out.. LOL
"Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not doubting at all. Torn T-shirts from a little piece of metal makes for
a
> good "what not to do" story.
Yeah they are plated cheese. Like others have said, buy your screws from
McFeeleys. They come in boxes of 100 and cost 4 to 5 cents each irregular
sizes. A REAL bargain by comparison. They are square drive so that you
have no more caming out and slipping when you drive them and they are
STRONG. If you buy your screws from them you will not have a bitch with
your screws anymore...I promise. Be sure to buy a couple of square drive
bits while there.
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
Jeffo:
You are right, Rybczynski's book One Good Turn is a great read!
I should offer a bit of clarification regarding the commonly held
micsonception that there is a difference between the Robertson recess and
the Square Drive Recess. The Industrial Fastener Institute, of which P.L.
Robertson is a member, issued a standard for the Square Drive Recess based
upon the Robertson patent (long expired BTW - issued in 1906). If a
manufacturer makes screws according to the IFI standard, they are making a
Roberston Recess screw, even though they can't call it that becausre
Robertson is trademarked.Any driver bit made according to the standard will
be compatible.
The problem with most screws that have recess fit issues is that the
manufacturer has let the recess punch wear to the point that it no longer
forms a conforming recess. That is more likely in screws made by "low cost"
producers, wherever thay may be located. I don't know all of the screw
manufacturers by any means, but I do know enough of them to say that I am
not aware of any, nor can I imagine any, that would deliberately produce a
non-conforming recess, by design. There is simply no reason to do so.
Robertson is not a licensed recess. However, P.L. Robertson does tend to
monitor recess configuration more closely than others, and we have found far
fewer problems with the screws they make for us. Incidently, we have an
expensive set of inspection gauge that we use to QC the recess of each
production lot of screws we receive. That is one way we are able to make
sure that our screws will all work perfectly with a standard Robertson
driver bit, whether Robertson made them for us or someone else.
Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com
"Jeffo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jerry Gilreath" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:P6fWb.273800$xy6.1388692@attbi_s02...
> > Ok, I got to ask this. Is McFreely's square drive a different size drive
> > than any other square drive? I keep seeing everybody say to get a few
bits
> > while they're getting screws. Just wondering if the Roberson?,
Robertson?,
> > square drive bits I already have would work.
> >
> > --
> > "Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
> > They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
> > Homer Simpson
> > Jerry© The Phoneman®
> > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Not a lot but it is what McFeely's sells.
> > >
> > > If you want pluses for the square drive, they won't cam out and, until
> you
> > > wear it down, the screw kind of locks onto the square driver bit.
Really
> > > nice for those hard to get at places or overhead.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike G.
> snip
>
> Ahh to be from Canada, where decent square drive screws (and the bits for
> them) are as close as the local Home Hardware or Bolt and Nut Supply.
There
> the prices, quality and selection are better than the BORG.=) Then there
is
> an independent hardware store close where it is easy for me to spend an
hour
> looking at all the different fasteners. Or when I'm in the area - a half
> hour drive - the nearest Lee Valley. I guess that is something of a gloat,
> take 'em where you can get'em.
>
> For the record, there is a difference between square drive and Robertson.
On
> Robertson, a licensed design, the side walls of the recess slope in
slightly
> towards the bottom, top edge has a slight chamfer to it, and maybe some
> other stuff I don't know. Square drive are the generic version, biggest
> difference being the side walls are parallel. As for the bits, they're
> interchangeable, except perhaps in the case of the #4, which I didn't know
> existed until I picked some up a couple weeks ago, wound up making do with
a
> large Phillips bit. I have yet to find the driver for it. Posi-drive seem
> like a decent option, but my experience with them has been limited to when
> they're included with hardware.
>
> For a good book on the subject try One Good Turn: A Natural History of the
> Screwdriver and the Screw by Witold Rybczynski. A quick read, interesting
> for the style of writing as well as the topic.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeffo
>
>
>
>
>
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each
> pack and it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an
> oak step stool I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart.
> Are these things that bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I
> get and where? That is totally unacceptable in my book. It's not like
> I can't afford the change, but it just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
HB;
I would guess that your predrilled holes may have been undersized. I had
a similar problem when drilling an aluminum boom (as in sailboat) and
inserting SS screws. The drill holes had to be just right to prevent
failure of the SS screws.
Brian
Thanks for the heads up Jim! Lots of good information there, something tells
me you know what you're talking about.
It's starting to make sense... for a little while
Jeffo
"Jim Ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jeffo:
>
> You are right, Rybczynski's book One Good Turn is a great read!
>
> I should offer a bit of clarification regarding the commonly held
> micsonception that there is a difference between the Robertson recess and
> the Square Drive Recess. The Industrial Fastener Institute, of which P.L.
> Robertson is a member, issued a standard for the Square Drive Recess based
> upon the Robertson patent (long expired BTW - issued in 1906). If a
> manufacturer makes screws according to the IFI standard, they are making a
> Roberston Recess screw, even though they can't call it that becausre
> Robertson is trademarked.Any driver bit made according to the standard
will
> be compatible.
>
> The problem with most screws that have recess fit issues is that the
> manufacturer has let the recess punch wear to the point that it no longer
> forms a conforming recess. That is more likely in screws made by "low
cost"
> producers, wherever thay may be located. I don't know all of the screw
> manufacturers by any means, but I do know enough of them to say that I am
> not aware of any, nor can I imagine any, that would deliberately produce a
> non-conforming recess, by design. There is simply no reason to do so.
> Robertson is not a licensed recess. However, P.L. Robertson does tend to
> monitor recess configuration more closely than others, and we have found
far
> fewer problems with the screws they make for us. Incidently, we have an
> expensive set of inspection gauge that we use to QC the recess of each
> production lot of screws we receive. That is one way we are able to make
> sure that our screws will all work perfectly with a standard Robertson
> driver bit, whether Robertson made them for us or someone else.
>
> Jim Ray, President
> McFeely's Square Drive Screws
> www.mcfeelys.com
>
>
>
> "Jeffo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Jerry Gilreath" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:P6fWb.273800$xy6.1388692@attbi_s02...
> > > Ok, I got to ask this. Is McFreely's square drive a different size
drive
> > > than any other square drive? I keep seeing everybody say to get a few
> bits
> > > while they're getting screws. Just wondering if the Roberson?,
> Robertson?,
> > > square drive bits I already have would work.
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
> > > They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
> > > Homer Simpson
> > > Jerry© The Phoneman®
> > > "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Not a lot but it is what McFeely's sells.
> > > >
> > > > If you want pluses for the square drive, they won't cam out and,
until
> > you
> > > > wear it down, the screw kind of locks onto the square driver bit.
> Really
> > > > nice for those hard to get at places or overhead.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mike G.
> > snip
> >
> > Ahh to be from Canada, where decent square drive screws (and the bits
for
> > them) are as close as the local Home Hardware or Bolt and Nut Supply.
> There
> > the prices, quality and selection are better than the BORG.=) Then there
> is
> > an independent hardware store close where it is easy for me to spend an
> hour
> > looking at all the different fasteners. Or when I'm in the area - a half
> > hour drive - the nearest Lee Valley. I guess that is something of a
gloat,
> > take 'em where you can get'em.
> >
> > For the record, there is a difference between square drive and
Robertson.
> On
> > Robertson, a licensed design, the side walls of the recess slope in
> slightly
> > towards the bottom, top edge has a slight chamfer to it, and maybe some
> > other stuff I don't know. Square drive are the generic version, biggest
> > difference being the side walls are parallel. As for the bits, they're
> > interchangeable, except perhaps in the case of the #4, which I didn't
know
> > existed until I picked some up a couple weeks ago, wound up making do
with
> a
> > large Phillips bit. I have yet to find the driver for it. Posi-drive
seem
> > like a decent option, but my experience with them has been limited to
when
> > they're included with hardware.
> >
> > For a good book on the subject try One Good Turn: A Natural History of
the
> > Screwdriver and the Screw by Witold Rybczynski. A quick read,
interesting
> > for the style of writing as well as the topic.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jeffo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Like they said soap has water absorption issues. And it is also a base so
can also leave stains in oak, cedar, walnut, etc.
--
"alexy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Some of it probably is the quality of the screws from HD. However, if
you
> >put some beeswax (not soap, not car wax, not paste wax),
> Why not soap or paste wax? I've had good luck with both (I think,
> unless you tell me that the screws are all corroding away now<g>).
> --
> Alex
> Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.
my spell checker always changes McFeely to McNealy don't know why.
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Aw Mike, I bet McNeeleys is the wholesale name of McFeeleys.. ;~)
>
>
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ooop's; that's Mcfeely's. Sorry about that
>
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Actually McFeeley's sells #0 also. I had a special need for a tiny screw
> head a few years back. The drive end was about 1/16" square.
>
>
>
Yes, usually a #5 and smaller screw, I use them plenty for hinges. At that
size the square drive seems to loose its main benefit - they cam out easier
than the larger drivers, but not bad enough to look for options. Looking at
McFeely's site I'm tempted to order they're colour coded bits, first place
I've seen them. Nice to see that the tradition has made the leap to driver
bits
Cheers,
Jeffo
> I would guess that your predrilled holes may have been undersized.
I thought the same thing at first. I used one of thosenifty tools that have
a drill bit and counter sink on one end and then you flip it to the phillips
head screwdriver. It was rated for #8 screws. I tried the next size bit and
the screws didn't break, but they didn't tighten either. I'm thinking about
taking the broken screws back to Lowes just to show them the crap they are
selling. But I'm sure they know that.
--
HomeBrewer
http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
www.rcparkflyers.com
Remove the xxx to reply!
> Are you sure they were wood screws and not DRY WALL screws? No slight
> intended, jus asking.
Yep, they are wood screws..Like someone posted earlier, the black drywall
screws are 10 times stronger than these wood screws.
--
HomeBrewer
http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
www.rcparkflyers.com
Remove the xxx to reply!
Reminds me of of the time I got four boxes of finish nails at menards.
I don't know what these things were made of but my guess was soft lead;
at least that is what it felt like. I could not get one of these
nails in if my life depended on it; didn't matter if it was fur, pine,
balsa! I did go back and tell the manager and he said, "well you need
the hard wood nails" which were great by the way. I asked him why he
stocks 90% crap nails and 10% good nails...blank stair. I challenged
him to pound one in a pallet that was right there. Between them, the
store manager, hardware assistant, and a couple workers, they got 2 in
about 25 tries.
What a joke.
HomeBrewer wrote:
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| Yeah they are plated cheese.
That's a good one! Reminds me of a pipe organ builder who called particle
board "compressed oatmeal".
--Jay
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> > In my experience, drywall screw heads will easily twist off in
> > hardwood. I've used them by the hundred in tubafours and plywood,
> > where only occasionally a head will come off. I'll agree they're fine
> > for that.
> >
>
> Interesting. I have had the opposite experience with drywall screws. In
> fact, this past weekend I broke the philips head drill bit in a drywall
> screw, but the screw remained intact. The drywall screws are definitely
> harder than the drill bits, because I go through those bits like nobody's
> business.
>
There are some screws for constuction work that have a similar
thread and head as real drywall screws. They are quite sturdy.
Could you be getting the two confused?
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?
"Jim Ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| ...hold a drill bit up to the threads...
Dang, I thought I invented that technique. :-) Of course I discovered it
out of foolish necessity -- instead of having a neatly organized rack of
drill bits clearly labelled according to diameter, I had a bin of randomly
sized bits rattling around together. Finding a bit to drill a pilot hole
was a matter of holding the screw up to the light with a bit in front of it
to see if I could still see threads behind the bit.
Years later, as an engineer, I made the mistake of drilling a 0.2500 hole in
aluminum for a 0.2500 steel dowel pin. The test fit worked great -- once.
0.2504 is a good diameter for a 0.2500 dowel pin. Nothing like empirical
engineering to keep you out of trouble.
--Jay
Soap sucks up moisture, and that can ultimately corrode away the
screws
John
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:57:16 GMT, alexy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Some of it probably is the quality of the screws from HD. However, if you
>>put some beeswax (not soap, not car wax, not paste wax),
>Why not soap or paste wax? I've had good luck with both (I think,
>unless you tell me that the screws are all corroding away now<g>).
Visit the McNealy's site and get their catalog. They are, unless I am out
and in desperate need, the only screws I use. Haven't had one fail on me
yet.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> Are you sure they were wood screws and not DRY WALL screws? No slight
> intended, jus asking.
>
Don't know about HomeBrewer's screws, but I know the ones I was
referencing were definitely wood screws -- those that didn't cam out
snapped as soon as the screw snugged up. Wound up actually throwing
them away. I think they get by selling these things because a lot of
people use these only in the soft, wet white-woods that the Borgs sell.
> "HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
> and
> > it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> > I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> > bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
> totally
> > unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> > just really pissed me off tonight.
> >
> >
> > --
> > HomeBrewer
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> > www.rcparkflyers.com
> > Remove the xxx to reply!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Oops, my "cover" is blown!
Thanks for your kind words,
Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jim Ray wrote:
>
> > My company, McFeely's, sells screws, so the following is biased!
>
> Justifiably so. If you've never had a McFeely's catalog, you
> should get one even if just for reference. These guys have tucked
> a lot of generally useful information (tables, diagrams, and
> prose) into their slim (less than 100 page) catalog. If you use
> square drive, or are thinking about it, you owe it to yourself to
> at least read this one.
>
> Mr. Ray is also the cover model for all their catalogs - you've
> been warned! (-:
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> West Des Moines, Iowa USA
>
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:52:10 -0500, "KYHighlander"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Drywall screws slow me down too much, everytime I pick one up I have to put
>on my reading glasses and hunt down a pair of tweezers to pluck the darn
>burr out of my finger.
You get used to that. What I never got used to was reaching into my
pouch and getting the point of one under a fingernail. Still makes me
wince 20+ years later.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
In article <P6fWb.273800$xy6.1388692@attbi_s02>, "Jerry Gilreath" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, I got to ask this. Is McFreely's square drive a different size drive
>than any other square drive? I keep seeing everybody say to get a few bits
>while they're getting screws. Just wondering if the Roberson?, Robertson?,
>square drive bits I already have would work.
>
Nope, same standard sizes. Most of the screws I've bought from McFeely's are
#2 Robertson. Some of the smaller ones are #1. Since McFeely's sells #3
drivers, I assume that some of their screws are #3 also, but I haven't bought
any that large yet.
--
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
That's it exactly - something about the moisture content in the soap. I
think it's the same with paste was. Read it in an article - can't remember
if it was in Wood or some other mag.
Nick B
"alexy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Some of it probably is the quality of the screws from HD. However, if
you
> >put some beeswax (not soap, not car wax, not paste wax),
> Why not soap or paste wax? I've had good luck with both (I think,
> unless you tell me that the screws are all corroding away now<g>).
> --
> Alex
> Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.
OK... Let me try to say this again.
Well, I got tired of using #6 and #7 screws and having them break on every
piece. With furniture you should be using at least a #8 screw unless
dealing with some thin of delicate wood. You will probably get tired of
them sooner or later or one days see the difference... ;~)
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>
>
>
> "Young_carpenter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > never had a problem and they counter sink better for me.
> >
> > --
>
>
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > I would guess that your predrilled holes may have been undersized.
>
>
> I thought the same thing at first. I used one of thosenifty tools that
have
> a drill bit and counter sink on one end and then you flip it to the
phillips
> head screwdriver. It was rated for #8 screws. I tried the next size bit
and
> the screws didn't break, but they didn't tighten either. I'm thinking
about
> taking the broken screws back to Lowes just to show them the crap they are
> selling. But I'm sure they know that.
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
When you go back there to complain (which you are justified in doing) you
might want to step into the hand tool area and pick up a small pack of those
Kreg pockethole screws. That's all I use now and I have no complaints
whatsoever.
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:39:17 GMT, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:52:10 -0500, "KYHighlander"
><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>Drywall screws slow me down too much, everytime I pick one up I have to put
>>on my reading glasses and hunt down a pair of tweezers to pluck the darn
>>burr out of my finger.
>
>That's easy. Just dump them out and set your open palm
>down on the pile. Pick it up and you have half a dozen
>stuck there ready to install. (What was that I was saying
>about many small sacrifices for the WW gods earlier today?)
don't "set" your hand on the pile... whack it down hard. the blood
makes a good lubricant....
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:10:29 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Wood screws at the BORG's are just about what you'd expect in the finest,
>Asian pot metal ... forget'em. Go to McFeely's online, or a local cabinet
>maker's supply, or hardware store that has yet to be assimilated, and get
>the quality screws your woodworking projects deserve.
In my experience, even the plain old Hillman screws from your typical
Ace or True Value are head and shoulders (pun intended ;^)) above BORG
screws. They aren't expensive, either. Typically about $3-4 for 100
FH wood screws.
Barry
"KYHighlander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> my spell checker always changes McFeely to McNealy don't know why.
Cause you have not added McFeeleys to your list of words yet.... Nor have I
..but going to right now.
"Gregg Germain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> What does the square drive have to do with the phenomenon of the
> screws twisting apart?
The square drive screws are stronger. But a way to think about it is that
the fit between the screw and the drive bit is so secure that the screw has
to be strong to keep from breaking "every" time. With Philips head the bit
slips easily when the screw gets tight. Not so with McFeeleys square drive
screws. Those screws will normally stall your drill when they have gone as
far as they are going to go.
That said, McFeeleys screws are a consistent high quality screw. Man that
brings another thought to mind.... Nevermind... The improvement centers
sell square drive and or combo Deck Screws and while these are stronger than
the common plastic packaged screw, they are still inferior in strength.
Those are OK for relative soft lumber but forget even those when it comes to
furniture construction.
Lastly, McFeeleys screws are CHEAP when compared to those plastic bagged
screws. Start using quality square drive screws and you will no longer
complain about broken screws or bits slipping. It will be something you no
longer have to think or worry about and you have taken the next step to
becoming a better woodworker.
Not a lot but it is what McFeely's sells.
If you want pluses for the square drive, they won't cam out and, until you
wear it down, the screw kind of locks onto the square driver bit. Really
nice for those hard to get at places or overhead.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Gregg Germain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> mttt <[email protected]> wrote:
> What does the square drive have to do with the phenomenon of the
> screws twisting apart?
>
Naw. it's an Asian knock off shop.
--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Aw Mike, I bet McNeeleys is the wholesale name of McFeeleys.. ;~)
>
>
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ooop's; that's Mcfeely's. Sorry about that
>
>
Some of it probably is the quality of the screws from HD. However, if you
put some beeswax (not soap, not car wax, not paste wax), they may turn
easier. I had this problem, and used beeswax, and the crappy HD screws
worked.
A while back, someone posted a table that they got off a web site - may have
been McFeeleys - it told you exactly what size bit to use for what size
screw, depending on whether or not you were using hardwood, or soft. I'd
also search McFeeleys and see if that table is there. Sorry I don't have
the link, I just printed the table out, and threw it in my WW Reference
file.
Interestingly, I used some screws I bought from Lee Valley, didn't use
beeswax, and had no problem.
FWIW
Nick B
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
My company, McFeely's, sells screws, so the following is biased!
Many of the hardware store screws are problematic because they are not
hardened. Even drywall screws are hardened, and they only need to go through
compressed gypsum and a softwood stud or thin steel stud. The result is a
screw that breaks very easily. The solution is to lubricate the screw with
beeswax or one of the commercially available fastener lubricants such as
Akempucky, then drill slightly oversized pilot and body holes. Many of the
hardware store screws have shank diameters equal to the outside diameter of
the screw threads which is why it is important to drill a clearance hole in
the first board. Consult one of the many pilot hole charts available for a
recommendation on body and pilot hole sizes, (ours is at
http://www.mcfeelys.com/wadb.asp) or do what craftsman have done
successfully for years - hold a drill bit up to the threads and pick a size
that just shades the root diameter (for hardwoods) or almost shades the root
diameter (for softwoods).
Remember too that solid brass, silicon bronze, and even stainless steel are
inherently softer than a good hardened steel screw, and thus require more
care during installation. Prethreading the hole with a steel screw can be
effective way to prevent breakage, or you may simply increase the screw size
to the next larger wire diameter.
If you need additional information, feel free to give my technical director,
Darin Lawrence, a call at 1-800-443-7937.
Jim Ray, President
McFeely's Square Drive Screws
www.mcfeelys.com
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
Jim Ray wrote:
> My company, McFeely's, sells screws, so the following is biased!
Justifiably so. If you've never had a McFeely's catalog, you
should get one even if just for reference. These guys have tucked
a lot of generally useful information (tables, diagrams, and
prose) into their slim (less than 100 page) catalog. If you use
square drive, or are thinking about it, you owe it to yourself to
at least read this one.
Mr. Ray is also the cover model for all their catalogs - you've
been warned! (-:
--
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
"Ron" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is the quality you can expect from China and it's replacing American
> products and jobs *the price is no bargain either* The only ones who make
a
> killing are executive corporate management. Outsource CEO's!!!
Ron those cheesy screws have been around for very long time. I remembering
buying the same low quality ones in the plastic packages back in the mid
70's. Regardless of where they are from, they are normally inferior in
quality. Had the one back in the 70's been better quality there may not
have been an opening for the Chinese ones.
Man those Lowe's screws suck, I broke more while building my cabinetmaker's
bench than I can count. The ones that didn't break I stripped the heads on
and they are too soft for a 'screwout' to work.
Kreg square drive screws are what I'm about to go to, I'll buy them mail
order and the shipping will suck, but they will be a lot less trouble. Or
maybe the McFeely screws they are square drive as well.
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"HomeBrewer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just bought 2 packages of #8 x 2" wood screws at Lowes. 5 in each pack
and
> it cost $.88. I predrilled and counter sunk the holes in an oak step stool
> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that
> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is
totally
> unacceptable in my book. It's not like I can't afford the change, but it
> just really pissed me off tonight.
>
>
> --
> HomeBrewer
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~t3e871/index.html
> www.rcparkflyers.com
> Remove the xxx to reply!
>
>
>
>
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:52:10 -0500, "KYHighlander"
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Drywall screws slow me down too much, everytime I pick one up I have to put
>on my reading glasses and hunt down a pair of tweezers to pluck the darn
>burr out of my finger.
That's easy. Just dump them out and set your open palm
down on the pile. Pick it up and you have half a dozen
stuck there ready to install. (What was that I was saying
about many small sacrifices for the WW gods earlier today?)
--
Impeach 'em ALL!
----------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:10:54 -0500, "John Keeney" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Where appearance isn't a big issue there is no substitute for drywall
>screws.
>Three pound box for a couple of bucks.
In my experience, drywall screw heads will easily twist off in
hardwood. I've used them by the hundred in tubafours and plywood,
where only occasionally a head will come off. I'll agree they're fine
for that.
Real wood screws aren't that expensive to use in furniture.
Barry
alexy <[email protected]> writes:
> Why not soap or paste wax?
Soap has water, makes screws rust.
Most car/paste waxes have silicone, which interferes with the finish.
If you have a good silicone-free wax that you use for wood finishing,
you could probably use that.
Dry wall screws are too brittle for regular woodworking and for most
practical purposes too small in gauge. I think we have all used them at one
time or another until we learned to use the square drive screws.
"Brian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > In my experience, drywall screw heads will easily twist off in
> > hardwood. I've used them by the hundred in tubafours and plywood,
> > where only occasionally a head will come off. I'll agree they're fine
> > for that.
> >
> > Real wood screws aren't that expensive to use in furniture.
> >
> > Barry
>
> Interesting. I have had the opposite experience with drywall screws. In
> fact, this past weekend I broke the philips head drill bit in a drywall
> screw, but the screw remained intact. The drywall screws are definitely
> harder than the drill bits, because I go through those bits like nobody's
> business.
>
> Brian.
>
>
Aw Mike, I bet McNeeleys is the wholesale name of McFeeleys.. ;~)
"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ooop's; that's Mcfeely's. Sorry about that