I am currently in the process of finishing the remaining doors for my little
(read-1year) kitchen project and have stumbled onto a question. For a corner
cabinet, I am looking to install two relatively small doors attached with a
butt joint at a 90 degree angle(or add an additional lazy susan/bi-fold type
hinge is movement is needed). I am looking to utilize a 170 degree hinge
where the pivot door will meet the face frame and I see that for the most
part of my search, I will have to mount the hinge to the inside wall of the
cabinet since I have yet to see a mounting plate that will allow attachment
to the face frame.
Now my question, Blum makes hinges for a full overlay (3/4" I would guess
since the carcass is made of that material), but the stiles of the face
frame are 2" and the rest of the doors have a 1" overlay. My question, if I
move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or possibly more due to
mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of the door to get the 1"
overlay will the hinge continue to operate as designed? It appears that I
will have to block out an additional 3/4" to mount the plate so the face
frame does not interfere with its operation I am not sure how much the cup
can be moved?
I am sure that someone else has come across this at some time, how did you
work around the limitations of these hinges?
SteveA
"SteveA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am currently in the process of finishing the remaining doors for my
>little (read-1year) kitchen project and have stumbled onto a question. For
>a corner cabinet, I am looking to install two relatively small doors
>attached with a butt joint at a 90 degree angle(or add an additional lazy
>susan/bi-fold type hinge is movement is needed). I am looking to utilize a
>170 degree hinge where the pivot door will meet the face frame and I see
>that for the most part of my search, I will have to mount the hinge to the
>inside wall of the cabinet since I have yet to see a mounting plate that
>will allow attachment to the face frame.
>
> Now my question, Blum makes hinges for a full overlay (3/4" I would guess
> since the carcass is made of that material), but the stiles of the face
> frame are 2" and the rest of the doors have a 1" overlay. My question, if
> I move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or possibly more due to
> mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of the door to get the 1"
> overlay will the hinge continue to operate as designed? It appears that I
> will have to block out an additional 3/4" to mount the plate so the face
> frame does not interfere with its operation I am not sure how much the cup
> can be moved?
>
> I am sure that someone else has come across this at some time, how did you
> work around the limitations of these hinges?
>
> SteveA
I am assuming that then you mention Blum hinges you are talking about the
Euro style hinges with the 35mm hole in the door.
Typically the cup location is critical. Basically where the hinge mounts on
the door is important as to whether the hinge will function properly or not.
Because most of these style hinges also account for the spacing between the
back of the door and the front of the face frame the hole has to be drilled
so that the hinge will pivot the door where it is intended to pivot the
door. Basically if you change the location of the hole in relatioship to
the edge of the stile the door may not open at all, or close for that
matter.
You should stay with what the instructions indicate.
On Nov 3, 9:58=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> SteveA wrote:
> > I am planning to make up a couple of test pieces today, moving the cup
> > in off the door edge to get the overlay I need and see how the hinge
> > reacts to this change.If I could have found a 165-170 face frame hinge,
> > I would not have any problems at all, but alas no one seems to make the=
m
> > at least with a 1" overlay.
>
> A dummy, hinge side, stile that you can experiment with should tell you
> everything you need to know.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
No shortage of dummies in this shop *smirk*
Blum compact 33 110, with 1" o/l
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9171f211-4103-489d-b567-9490be93fdc6@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 2, 10:41 pm, "SteveA" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am currently in the process of finishing the remaining doors for my
> little
> (read-1year) kitchen project and have stumbled onto a question. For a
> corner
> cabinet, I am looking to install two relatively small doors attached with
> a
> butt joint at a 90 degree angle(or add an additional lazy susan/bi-fold
> type
> hinge is movement is needed). I am looking to utilize a 170 degree hinge
> where the pivot door will meet the face frame and I see that for the most
> part of my search, I will have to mount the hinge to the inside wall of
> the
> cabinet since I have yet to see a mounting plate that will allow
> attachment
> to the face frame.
>
> Now my question, Blum makes hinges for a full overlay (3/4" I would guess
> since the carcass is made of that material), but the stiles of the face
> frame are 2" and the rest of the doors have a 1" overlay. My question, if
> I
> move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or possibly more due to
> mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of the door to get the 1"
> overlay will the hinge continue to operate as designed? It appears that I
> will have to block out an additional 3/4" to mount the plate so the face
> frame does not interfere with its operation I am not sure how much the cup
> can be moved?
>
> I am sure that someone else has come across this at some time, how did you
> work around the limitations of these hinges?
>
> SteveA
With 1" overlay, what hinges are you using on the other doors?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SteveA wrote:
>
>>My question, if I move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or
>>possibly more due to mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of
>>the door to get the 1" overlay will the hinge continue to operate as
>>designed?
>
> Off the cuff, and IME, you could be asking for trouble/extra work.
>
> Depending upon the hinge type, the distance from the edge of the door to
> the cup hole (usually distance "B") is a critical distance for most euro
> type hinges. By moving this distance you may find unintended consequences
> with clearance issues, including not having enough clearance to mount lazy
> susan hardware or shelf slides.
>
> Not saying that it won't work, just that you should probably dummy up some
> doors and give it a try before drilling your cup holes in finished doors.
>
> One of the biggest mistake you can make when building cabinets is to not
> decide upon your door hinges and drawer hardware FIRST. Failure to do so
> will ALWAYS cause problems, even for the experienced cabinet maker.
> DAMHIKT!
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
I am planning to make up a couple of test pieces today, moving the cup in
off the door edge to get the overlay I need and see how the hinge reacts to
this change.If I could have found a 165-170 face frame hinge, I would not
have any problems at all, but alas no one seems to make them at least with a
1" overlay.
If all this experimentation does not work out, I have already told wife she
might end up with an open shelf cabinet, which she does not see to mind,
since she was the one restricting its design. It is a straight 90 degree top
corner cabinet with face frame one leg 12" =/- the other 10 1/2" +/-.
SteveA
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:9d244079-2bad-489d-ab2d-4d119534e489@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 8:06 am, "SteveA" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > SteveA wrote:
>
> >>My question, if I move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or
> >>possibly more due to mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of
> >>the door to get the 1" overlay will the hinge continue to operate as
> >>designed?
>
> > Off the cuff, and IME, you could be asking for trouble/extra work.
>
> > Depending upon the hinge type, the distance from the edge of the door to
> > the cup hole (usually distance "B") is a critical distance for most euro
> > type hinges. By moving this distance you may find unintended
> > consequences
> > with clearance issues, including not having enough clearance to mount
> > lazy
> > susan hardware or shelf slides.
>
> > Not saying that it won't work, just that you should probably dummy up
> > some
> > doors and give it a try before drilling your cup holes in finished
> > doors.
>
> > One of the biggest mistake you can make when building cabinets is to not
> > decide upon your door hinges and drawer hardware FIRST. Failure to do so
> > will ALWAYS cause problems, even for the experienced cabinet maker.
> > DAMHIKT!
>
> > --
> >www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 10/22/08
> > KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> I am planning to make up a couple of test pieces today, moving the cup in
> off the door edge to get the overlay I need and see how the hinge reacts
> to
> this change.If I could have found a 165-170 face frame hinge, I would not
> have any problems at all, but alas no one seems to make them at least with
> a
> 1" overlay.
>
> If all this experimentation does not work out, I have already told wife
> she
> might end up with an open shelf cabinet, which she does not see to mind,
> since she was the one restricting its design. It is a straight 90 degree
> top
> corner cabinet with face frame one leg 12" =/- the other 10 1/2" +/-.
>
> SteveA
I have seen a piece of face-frame attached to the door and that face-
frame stile attached to a regular (170?) hinge.
I don't have anything in my catalogues that jumps out at me as a
solution, so Swingman's suggestion to prototype is a good one.
I have been searching for several weeks now, also with no luck. Fortunately
I have plenty of scrap material to do a number of tests cuts (drills) I hope
I can come up with a combo that will work.
Thanx for the input
SteveA
On Nov 2, 10:41=A0pm, "SteveA" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am currently in the process of finishing the remaining doors for my lit=
tle
> (read-1year) kitchen project and have stumbled onto a question. For a cor=
ner
> cabinet, I am looking to install two relatively small doors attached with=
a
> butt joint at a 90 degree angle(or add an additional lazy susan/bi-fold t=
ype
> hinge is movement is needed). I am looking to utilize a 170 degree hinge
> where the pivot door will meet the face frame and I see that for the most
> part of my search, I will have to mount the hinge to the inside wall of t=
he
> cabinet since I have yet to see a mounting plate that will allow attachme=
nt
> to the face frame.
>
> Now my question, Blum makes hinges for a full overlay (3/4" I would guess
> since the carcass is made of that material), but the stiles of the face
> frame are 2" and the rest of the doors have a 1" overlay. My question, if=
I
> move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or possibly more due to
> mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of the door to get the 1"
> overlay will the hinge continue to operate as designed? It appears that I
> will have to block out an additional 3/4" to mount the plate so the face
> frame does not interfere with its operation I am not sure how much the cu=
p
> can be moved?
>
> I am sure that someone else has come across this at some time, how did yo=
u
> work around the limitations of these hinges?
>
> SteveA
With 1" overlay, what hinges are you using on the other doors?
On Nov 3, 8:06=A0am, "SteveA" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > SteveA wrote:
>
> >>My question, if I move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or
> >>possibly more due to mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of
> >>the door to get the 1" overlay will the hinge continue to operate as
> >>designed?
>
> > Off the cuff, and IME, you could be asking for trouble/extra work.
>
> > Depending upon the hinge type, the distance from the edge of the door t=
o
> > the cup hole (usually distance "B") is a critical distance for most eur=
o
> > type hinges. By moving this distance you may find unintended consequenc=
es
> > with clearance issues, including not having enough clearance to mount l=
azy
> > susan hardware or shelf slides.
>
> > Not saying that it won't work, just that you should probably dummy up s=
ome
> > doors and give it a try before drilling your cup holes in finished door=
s.
>
> > One of the biggest mistake you can make when building cabinets is to no=
t
> > decide upon your door hinges and drawer hardware FIRST. Failure to do s=
o
> > will ALWAYS cause problems, even for the experienced cabinet maker.
> > DAMHIKT!
>
> > --
> >www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 10/22/08
> > KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> I am planning to make up a couple of test pieces today, moving the cup in
> off the door edge to get the overlay I need and see how the hinge reacts =
to
> this change.If I could have found a 165-170 face frame hinge, I would not
> have any problems at all, but alas no one seems to make them at least wit=
h a
> 1" overlay.
>
> If all this experimentation does not work out, I have already told wife s=
he
> might end up with an open shelf cabinet, which she does not see to mind,
> since she was the one restricting its design. It is a straight 90 degree =
top
> corner cabinet with face frame one leg 12" =3D/- the other 10 1/2" +/-.
>
> SteveA
I have seen a piece of face-frame attached to the door and that face-
frame stile attached to a regular (170?) hinge.
I don't have anything in my catalogues that jumps out at me as a
solution, so Swingman's suggestion to prototype is a good one.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>
>> Typically the cup location is critical.
>
>> You should stay with what the instructions indicate.
>
> LOL ... similar posts, three minutes apart. One would think we'd "been
> there done that", eh? :)
A time or 500.
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:50:54 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>> Typically the cup location is critical.
>>
>>> You should stay with what the instructions indicate.
>>
>> LOL ... similar posts, three minutes apart. One would think we'd "been
>> there done that", eh? :)
>
>A time or 500.
We all got the t-shirts, right?
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
SteveA wrote:
> I am planning to make up a couple of test pieces today, moving the cup
> in off the door edge to get the overlay I need and see how the hinge
> reacts to this change.If I could have found a 165-170 face frame hinge,
> I would not have any problems at all, but alas no one seems to make them
> at least with a 1" overlay.
A dummy, hinge side, stile that you can experiment with should tell you
everything you need to know.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
SteveA wrote:
>My
> question, if I move the cup for the hinge an additional 1/2" (or
> possibly more due to mounting location on the cabinet) from the edge of
> the door to get the 1" overlay will the hinge continue to operate as
> designed?
Off the cuff, and IME, you could be asking for trouble/extra work.
Depending upon the hinge type, the distance from the edge of the door to
the cup hole (usually distance "B") is a critical distance for most euro
type hinges. By moving this distance you may find unintended
consequences with clearance issues, including not having enough
clearance to mount lazy susan hardware or shelf slides.
Not saying that it won't work, just that you should probably dummy up
some doors and give it a try before drilling your cup holes in finished
doors.
One of the biggest mistake you can make when building cabinets is to not
decide upon your door hinges and drawer hardware FIRST. Failure to do so
will ALWAYS cause problems, even for the experienced cabinet maker. DAMHIKT!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)