"Ted Schuerzinger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2 Oct 2010 01:36:58 GMT, DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
>> You still need a way to check whether it is working, so you know when
>> to replace it.
>
> Touch it. ;-)
>
As a farm boy, we used to talk our city cousins into peeing on the electric
fence.
That is a sensation you will never forget!
Ted Schuerzinger wrote:
>
> On 2 Oct 2010 01:36:58 GMT, DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
> > You still need a way to check whether it is working, so you know when
> > to replace it.
>
> Touch it. ;-)
And deprive a depraved Liberal of the pleasure?
--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.
?
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> I think those parts are made of wood, my guess is that this was used to
>>> hold oil lamps, it's missing its base, could have been a floor lamp or
>>> maybe for a table. Might have been for a work area since it can hold
>>> three lights. Someone had brought this to a tractor show hoping to find
>>> its purpose.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The base for my kerosene lamps is ~4" across, so if that is the dimension
>> of the rings that could be it....
>
>
> I don't have a dimension for the rings but they look to be around 4"
> diameter, though I would think that lamps were made in different sizes.
>
> Most of them have been answered correctly this week but I'm not 100% sure
> about a couple of them:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/09/set-356.html#answers
>
Could it be a laboratory device to hold a flask above an oil or alcohol lamp
for heating? The vertical separation would be adjustable with the screw.
Mark
> 2049. Looks like a trigger device for blowing stuff up
I was thinking it might be something like that but couldn't find any proof
> 2050. Hah, that's just silly..
>
> http://www.firebox.com/product/2089/Condiment-Gun
Yes, someone had sent me the photo, I posted it just to mix it up a little.
I like to include items other than tools once in a while.
> 2052. reciprocating saw, powered by a drill motor.
Correct
Rob
2047: Comic tea set for the tall guy on Monty Python. Made by his
fellow cast members.
2048: Stamp pad re-inker, designed by the military. Double function,
it's also a headspace measure for 40 mm anti tank guns.
2049: Night Watchman's carry box. Used during world war II. The two
terminal set was hooked to a resistor at the different stations. The
watchman would push the single terminal, which is a push button.
2050: Flare gun for boaters.
2051: Only thing comes to mind, this looks some what similar to the
"ring clamp" I've got for my chemistry set. The loops could hold
beakers or flasks over a flame, in a chemistry lab.
2052: The shaft to the left should have a black plastic knob, with
indicator. It's also missing the electrical cord. This is an electric
hacksaw.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of any of these.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Today's set has just been posted:
http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Rob
Also, the "barrel" is in line with the cylinder axle. My Dad used to
have a cartoon he pulled out of a news paper, probably before I was
born. Same deal -- barrel precisely in line with the cylinder axle.
Good catch, I'd not seen that, about the flutes. Good eye.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"DoN. Nichols" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Obviously designed by someone unfamiliar with a real revolver,
because the flutes on the cylinder are pointing the wrong way.
:-)
On 9/30/10 5:33 AM, Rob H. wrote:
> Today's set has just been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2048
I think it's for hide glue, which still has advantages over other glues.
It works best at 145-150F. Nowadays hobbyists are likely to devise a
water bath using a low-wattage heater such as a crock pot. They have to
remember to keep the glue container covered because it skims quickly.
This item could be heated in a warm oven or a pan of water. The cast
iron would hold heat. The keyholes might be for a desktop heat source
such as a heat lamp.
The spout would expose a minimal surface area to the air and could be
opened and closed without a messy cover; the rotation would also stir up
the glue.
Hide glue can be stored overnight and reheated but gets weaker with each
cycle. The plug would be to add measured amounts of crystals and water
to mix a fresh batch. It would allow stirring and checking with a
thermometer, all with only a small opening.
> 2051) Are the parts with the female threads wood? If they were metal
> I could picture it as being part of a press where a pair of
> weights would be put in the upper hoops and then the beam is
> spun to apply the inertial energy of the weights to force via
> the screw.
I think those parts are made of wood, my guess is that this was used to hold
oil lamps, it's missing its base, could have been a floor lamp or maybe for
a table. Might have been for a work area since it can hold three lights.
Someone had brought this to a tractor show hoping to find its purpose.
Rob
On 10/1/2010 11:19 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>> 2051) Are the parts with the female threads wood? If they were metal
>> I could picture it as being part of a press where a pair of
>> weights would be put in the upper hoops and then the beam is
>> spun to apply the inertial energy of the weights to force via
>> the screw.
>
>
> I think those parts are made of wood, my guess is that this was used to
> hold oil lamps, it's missing its base, could have been a floor lamp or
> maybe for a table. Might have been for a work area since it can hold
> three lights. Someone had brought this to a tractor show hoping to find
> its purpose.
>
>
> Rob
>
>
The base for my kerosene lamps is ~4" across, so if that is the
dimension of the rings that could be it....
>> I think those parts are made of wood, my guess is that this was used to
>> hold oil lamps, it's missing its base, could have been a floor lamp or
>> maybe for a table. Might have been for a work area since it can hold
>> three lights. Someone had brought this to a tractor show hoping to find
>> its purpose.
>>
>>
>
> The base for my kerosene lamps is ~4" across, so if that is the dimension
> of the rings that could be it....
I don't have a dimension for the rings but they look to be around 4"
diameter, though I would think that lamps were made in different sizes.
Most of them have been answered correctly this week but I'm not 100% sure
about a couple of them:
http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/09/set-356.html#answers
Rob
"Rich Grise" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:42:16 -0400, Rob H. wrote:
>>
>>> 2050. Hah, that's just silly..
>>>
>>> http://www.firebox.com/product/2089/Condiment-Gun
>>
>> Yes, someone had sent me the photo, I posted it just to mix it up a
>> little. I like to include items other than tools once in a while.
>
> How is a condiment gun not a tool? ;-)
Good point, I guess it's a tool although it's sold as a novelty item, I
hadn't seen one before someone sent me the photo.
Rob
> However the (now posted as most frequent) answer (detonator) for
> 2049 does not look reasonable to me.
>
> 1) In a detonator, there is no need for the "tick" timer (the
> brass disc) connected through the hinges on the door.
>
> 2) Usually a detonator has a generator which is turned by pushing
> down the T-bar handle. It would not be battery powered as this
> was based on the space near the bottom. I'm not sure whether it
> was a rechargeable lead-acid battery or a lantern battery. Better
> exposure in the open straight-on shot might tell that. And
> another angled view from the top instead of the bottom might
> show a bit more detail of what is on the middle shelf. That and
> angled views of the tick timer from both sides might help too.
>
> But I still believe that it is an old electric fence charger (to
> keep large animals such as cattle from leaning against and
> breaking the fence). Barbed wire is not a sufficient deterrent
> at times.
Ok, I added your suggestion to the answer page, I had done a search on it
but didn't find anything. The handle on this device makes it look like it's
portable, I would think an electric fence charger would be somewhat
permanently mounted, but then I've never seen one before.
Rob
On 10/1/10 6:26 PM, Rob H. wrote:
>
>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/09/set-356.html#answers
>>>
>>
>> Could it be a laboratory device to hold a flask above an oil or
>> alcohol lamp for heating? The vertical separation would be adjustable
>> with the screw.
>
>
> Sounds good to me, I just added this idea to the answer page.
>
> Thanks
I don't see why one would hang three oil lamps together or need a height
adjustment.
Wouldn't it take just one adjustable ring, not three, to hold a flask at
a chosen distance above a flame? The wooden rod would require a deep
base for a strong screw connection, and the rings would easily be pushed
sideways out of alignment.
The length of the rod reminds me of the feeding-height range for raising
turkeys.
A thrifty farmer might raise three at a time for his family. Turkeys
can spill a lot of feed, and they aren't much good at pecking it off the
ground. They'll spill more if the feed is below shoulder level; hence
the need for frequent adjustment. They'll spill more if they compete at
a feeder. Besides, when they compete, some will overeat and put on lots
of fat, while others will be scrawny. Hence, three rings for three turkeys.
I imagine a turkey would spill less pecking from a cup than from a
typical feeder. Cups may have fit securely in the rings.
If the pieces with the rings have been shaved to the point that when
screwed together they jam at ninety degrees, I can imagine how it would
work.
First the farmer screws the crosspieces together so they jam at ninety
degrees like a T. Then, in the plate or sill at the base of a wall, he
drills a shallow hole for the end of the rod. He drills a similar hole
in a 2x4 to hold the top of the rod. He nails that board in place to
hold the rod vertically near the wall, with two rings by the wall and
the third arm extending away from the wall, into the room.
When he gets three chicks, he moves the arm to unjam the threads, then
turns the rod to lower the rings close to the floor. He swings the arm
out to jam the threads and puts the feed cups into the rings. As they
grow, he raises the rings by unjamming the threads and turning the rod.
He invites his friends over to show them that there's no spilled feed
under his feeder.
On 10/1/2010 9:52 PM, J Burns wrote:
> I don't see why one would hang three oil lamps together or need a height
> adjustment.
>
> Wouldn't it take just one adjustable ring, not three, to hold a flask at
> a chosen distance above a flame? The wooden rod would require a deep
> base for a strong screw connection, and the rings would easily be pushed
> sideways out of alignment.
>
> The length of the rod reminds me of the feeding-height range for raising
> turkeys.
>
> A thrifty farmer might raise three at a time for his family. Turkeys can
> spill a lot of feed, and they aren't much good at pecking it off the
> ground. They'll spill more if the feed is below shoulder level; hence
> the need for frequent adjustment. They'll spill more if they compete at
> a feeder. Besides, when they compete, some will overeat and put on lots
> of fat, while others will be scrawny. Hence, three rings for three turkeys.
>
> I imagine a turkey would spill less pecking from a cup than from a
> typical feeder. Cups may have fit securely in the rings.
>
> If the pieces with the rings have been shaved to the point that when
> screwed together they jam at ninety degrees, I can imagine how it would
> work.
>
> First the farmer screws the crosspieces together so they jam at ninety
> degrees like a T. Then, in the plate or sill at the base of a wall, he
> drills a shallow hole for the end of the rod. He drills a similar hole
> in a 2x4 to hold the top of the rod. He nails that board in place to
> hold the rod vertically near the wall, with two rings by the wall and
> the third arm extending away from the wall, into the room.
>
> When he gets three chicks, he moves the arm to unjam the threads, then
> turns the rod to lower the rings close to the floor. He swings the arm
> out to jam the threads and puts the feed cups into the rings. As they
> grow, he raises the rings by unjamming the threads and turning the rod.
> He invites his friends over to show them that there's no spilled feed
> under his feeder.
Wow, that's good. If I had one and some birds I'd sure use it for that.
Mouse
> I don't see why one would hang three oil lamps together or need a height
> adjustment.
Doesn't seem that unusual, three lamps could be useful for someone working
at night, where one lamp would not be bright enough.
I have a desk light right next to me that can be adjusted for height, and I
have another lamp that has three lights on it, each of which can be adjusted
for direction.
Although I think I like the beaker stand suggestion better than lamp holder.
> The length of the rod reminds me of the feeding-height range for raising
> turkeys.
Surely this device would make a good turkey feeder but I would guess that
isn't its original purpose.
You always come up with original theories, keep up the good work!
Rob
> While I have seen them in use -- in the early to mid 1960s in
> ranching country (South Texas). There is a limit on how long a strech
> of fence one can charge, and cattle do have *some* memory, so it is
> beneficial to have it portable -- moved from fence section to fence
> section. Also -- lightning tends to kill them, so having it possible to
> carry a replacement out there and swap it for the dead one is
> beneficial. (Besides -- you had to replace the batteries every so
> often. It cost *way* too much to run electricity to many points along
> miles of fence.)
>
> These days -- there are apparently two kinds:
>
> 1) Ones for a fairly short fence near to a powered building, so
> the charger lives indoors, and the fence forms a loop touching
> the building.
>
> 2) Ones for traditional use to keep cattle from straying which
> are mounted far from a house, and are kept charged via solar
> cells. (You still need a way to check whether it is working, so
> you know when to replace it. There are apparently lights which
> you can hang on the fence to tell that it is currently live.)
Thanks for the information, I would think there would be some of these on
the web but I haven't had any luck when searching for antique electric fence
starters. Someone sent me the photos, so I can't provide any more detail on
this device.
I did some further searching on detonators and found two of them that don't
have plungers, the first of which has what appears to be a pushbutton on top
although it's slightly different than the one in my post:
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-mining-atlas-blasting-cap-machine
Here is the one my site for comparison:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049.jpg
This second detonator link doesn't show much detail:
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/rare-vintage-m-34-50-cap-blasting-machine
You may be correct about it being an electric fence starter, though I would
be more comfortable with this answer if I could find a similar one. The
detonator in my first link looks close but then we don't know what it looks
like inside.
Rob
On 10/2/10 12:32 PM, Rob H. wrote:
>> I don't see why one would hang three oil lamps together or need a
>> height adjustment.
>
> Doesn't seem that unusual, three lamps could be useful for someone
> working at night, where one lamp would not be bright enough.
>
> I have a desk light right next to me that can be adjusted for height,
> and I have another lamp that has three lights on it, each of which can
> be adjusted for direction.
Adjustable electric desk lamps have shields to keep the light out of
your eyes. They can be moved vertically and laterally by pushing. Oil
lamps at a desk would need shades. To adjust, you'd have to remove the
three lamps and rotate the three arms around the rod. The result would
be a height change of less than an inch. Meanwhile, having three oil
lamps on a rod at a desk sounds dangerous.
A floor lamp with three lights that can be aimed independently is a
great idea. A floor lamp with three bare lights that can be raised in
fractions of an inch sounds pointless.
For a wall fixture, the rod would have to be well away from the wall if
the arms had to turn around the rod. Why would anybody want small
adjustments in the height of wall lamps?
>
> Although I think I like the beaker stand suggestion better than lamp
> holder.
Why would a beaker stand have a pair of rings on opposite sides of the
post?
I haven't seen a beaker stand with a threaded post. Clamps allow faster
assembly and faster large adjustments, and they keep the beaker
vertically aligned with the flame.
In a barn, screws can rust whenever their temperature is below the dew
point. As turkeys grow, height adjustments are small. Turning a wooden
rod could be more practical than fooling with a steel clamp.
>
>> The length of the rod reminds me of the feeding-height range for
>> raising turkeys.
>
> Surely this device would make a good turkey feeder but I would guess
> that isn't its original purpose.
>
> You always come up with original theories, keep up the good work!
>
It probably wouldn't have been the purpose in the last fifty years, with
commercial turkey meat cheaply available at stores everywhere. It
probably wouldn't have been the purpose before turkeys were fed mash and
pellets; they seem pretty good at picking up whole grains.
Mash made turkey growing more efficient by giving them a balanced diet
so they didn't have to forage; foraging increased feed requirements by
exposing them to parasites. At one time, a family had incentive to
raise three turkeys on mash, but turkeys can waste a lot. I've found
that frequent height adjustments and multiple feeding stations reduce
waste. I imagine feeding them in deep cups could reduce waste, and 4"
sounds like a good diameter.
Do I like to argue or what!
> Except perhaps what part of the country he lives in? (See
> below.)
I sent the owner an email yesterday but haven't heard back yet.
> Hmm ... I can't get the "zoom" button to give me a bigger image
> (can you),
It worked ok for me, below is a decent view of it along with the one from my
site:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049t.jpg
I thought the large hex nut might be enclosing a pushbutton so that it
wouldn't get pressed accidentally. Hard to say for sure, you might be right
that a plunger could be attached there.
>so I saved the thumbnail and blew that up.To the left are
> two thumb nuts for connecting the wires. It looks as though the hex at
> the right unscrews and provides a plunger again -- it would seem to not
> be battery powered.
>
>> This second detonator link doesn't show much detail:
>>
>> http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/rare-vintage-m-34-50-cap-blasting-machine
>
> I did a bit of searching on "M34" and found this image:
>
> <http://www.billricca.com/trans/sf_mach.jpg>
>
> which shows that it still has a plunger to generate the voltage to
> trigger the caps. It is also capable of setting off up to fifty caps at
> once, and was issued by the military in the Vietnam era.
>
> Visit: <http://www.billricca.com/collectors_corner.htm>
>
> and search for "M34" on that page. It appears to be about 2/3 of the
> way down the page.
I agree with you on this one.
> I've tried to find them too -- and can't. Apparently they have
> mostly been forgotten. I don't think that "starter" is the right term
> to search for. Try "charger". (And, based on Wikipedia, try
> "energizer".)
I guess using the right terminology would have been helpful for me.;-)
> What part of the country does the owner live in? If ranching
> country, it is more likely to be an electric fence charger, if mining
> country, more likely to be a detonator.
I'll post his answer when he replies.
(Of course, if he brought it
> there from somewhere else, it adds to the confusion. :-)
>
> The Wikipedia entry for "Electric fence" says (in part):
>
> ======================================================================
> Early alternating current (AC) fence chargers used a transformer and a
> mechanically-driven switch to generate the electrical pulses. The pulses
> were wide and the voltage unpredictable, with no-load peaks in excess of
> 10,000 volts and a rapid drop in voltage as the fence leakage increased.
> The switch mechanism was prone to failure. Later systems replaced the
> switch with a solid-state circuit, with an improvement in longevity but
> no change in pulse width or voltage control.
> ======================================================================
>
> The brass disc mounted to the door appears to be the
> "mechanically-driven switch".
>
> I wish that he lived nearby. I could then test it and verify
> what it is.
You may very well be right about it being a fence charger, I'll be
interested to find out what part of the country it came from. When I
revisited the original email I found a couple more photos that I hadn't
posted, not sure if they'll help much or not:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049n.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049na.jpg
Rob
Just found the answer for this device, it's neither a detonator nor a fence
charger, it's a lineman's tester, as seen here:
http://www.telephonearchive.com/phones/we/we-early-test-set.html
Someone suggested it was for use by a lineman and I did a search on western
electric tester and found the link.
Rob
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:42:16 -0400, Rob H. wrote:
>
>> 2050. Hah, that's just silly..
>>
>> http://www.firebox.com/product/2089/Condiment-Gun
>
> Yes, someone had sent me the photo, I posted it just to mix it up a
> little. I like to include items other than tools once in a while.
How is a condiment gun not a tool? ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
On 2010-09-30, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> Today's set has just been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Posting from Rec.crafts.metalworking as always:
2047) Hmm ... perhaps an oil fueled virtual candle?
I don't see any photos of it with the top off, but I suspect
that if you removed it you would see a wick and a part which
could be unscrewed to refill the fuel.
The fuel *might* be cigarette ligher fuel, or propane/butane
instead of the oil (perhaps "coal oil" -- kerosene).
2048) Now this is an interesting one. The size is not reasonable
for working with Portland cement.
I suspect that it is for a glue which is used heated. I don't
see provisions for heating it directly -- but the cast iron
would hold heat for a while.
I would suspect that you rotate the pot to the horizontal
position and dip or scoop out some of the hot glue from the
rectangular opening.
You might unscrew the plug to drop in more hardened glue prior
to re-heating.
Is there another keyhole shaped hole on the other side? If so,
this may be for suspending it upside down over a flame or other
source of heat.
2049) This looks like the energizer for an electric fence.
The brass disk is kicked into rotation by electric power from a
battery (not present in the photos) and the rotation interrupts
the power from the battery generating a high voltage spike from
a coil. It also winds up the spring, and it takes a few seconds
to unwind and repeat the cycle. (This is so you don't wind up
with someone frozen to it unable to relase a grip.
The fence wire is attached to one of or both of the two studs
shown to the right of first photo under the handle. The thing
to the left is a push-pull switch to turn it on and off.
2050) For spraying insecticide, perhaps?
Obviously designed by someone unfamiliar with a real revolver,
because the flutes on the cylinder are pointing the wrong way.
:-)
2051) Are the parts with the female threads wood? If they were metal
I could picture it as being part of a press where a pair of
weights would be put in the upper hoops and then the beam is
spun to apply the inertial energy of the weights to force via
the screw.
I'm not sure what the single hoop would be for, however. It
should be a balanced assembly.
And -- of course -- it is missing quite a bit which might make
it easier to tell what it is supposed to do.
2052) Looks like some kind of lubricant injection gun.
Now to see what others have suggested.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2010-10-01, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 2051) Are the parts with the female threads wood? If they were metal
>> I could picture it as being part of a press where a pair of
>> weights would be put in the upper hoops and then the beam is
>> spun to apply the inertial energy of the weights to force via
>> the screw.
>
>
> I think those parts are made of wood, my guess is that this was used to hold
> oil lamps, it's missing its base, could have been a floor lamp or maybe for
> a table. Might have been for a work area since it can hold three lights.
> Someone had brought this to a tractor show hoping to find its purpose.
O.K. That makes sense.
However the (now posted as most frequent) answer (detonator) for
2049 does not look reasonable to me.
1) In a detonator, there is no need for the "tick" timer (the
brass disc) connected through the hinges on the door.
2) Usually a detonator has a generator which is turned by pushing
down the T-bar handle. It would not be battery powered as this
was based on the space near the bottom. I'm not sure whether it
was a rechargeable lead-acid battery or a lantern battery. Better
exposure in the open straight-on shot might tell that. And
another angled view from the top instead of the bottom might
show a bit more detail of what is on the middle shelf. That and
angled views of the tick timer from both sides might help too.
But I still believe that it is an old electric fence charger (to
keep large animals such as cattle from leaning against and
breaking the fence). Barbed wire is not a sufficient deterrent
at times.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2010-10-01, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>> However the (now posted as most frequent) answer (detonator) for
>> 2049 does not look reasonable to me.
[ ... ]
>> But I still believe that it is an old electric fence charger (to
>> keep large animals such as cattle from leaning against and
>> breaking the fence). Barbed wire is not a sufficient deterrent
>> at times.
>
>
> Ok, I added your suggestion to the answer page, I had done a search on it
> but didn't find anything. The handle on this device makes it look like it's
> portable, I would think an electric fence charger would be somewhat
> permanently mounted, but then I've never seen one before.
While I have seen them in use -- in the early to mid 1960s in
ranching country (South Texas). There is a limit on how long a strech
of fence one can charge, and cattle do have *some* memory, so it is
beneficial to have it portable -- moved from fence section to fence
section. Also -- lightning tends to kill them, so having it possible to
carry a replacement out there and swap it for the dead one is
beneficial. (Besides -- you had to replace the batteries every so
often. It cost *way* too much to run electricity to many points along
miles of fence.)
These days -- there are apparently two kinds:
1) Ones for a fairly short fence near to a powered building, so
the charger lives indoors, and the fence forms a loop touching
the building.
2) Ones for traditional use to keep cattle from straying which
are mounted far from a house, and are kept charged via solar
cells. (You still need a way to check whether it is working, so
you know when to replace it. There are apparently lights which
you can hang on the fence to tell that it is currently live.)
And, when standing near one of the old ones like what you have,
you would hear a "tick" (five seconds of silence), "tick" ... (repeat).
It is energized *only* during the tick -- otherwise, you could have
someone unable to release from the fence after contacting it. (That
brass disc is the timer which produces the tick, and switches the current
through something like an ignition coil (I think that flat pack visible
in the middle of the main box.
There should be a pair of terminals in the bottom half of this
(if you still have it -- or did it belong to someone else?) Connect a
6V lantern battery (if that is what will fit in the bottom half) and you
should hear the "tick" cycle -- assuming that the hinges still conduct
electricity to the front door. If you have one of the old neon test
probes for checking for line voltage, hook it to that and watch for a
flash of orange light from the neon whenever the tick occurs. It *may*
charge a capacitor which will keep the voltage high until something
contacts the fence and discharges it until the next "tick".
Anyway -- the terminals on the top are obviously for a portable
high voltage device, not a permanent installation. Just posts of brass
that you can wrap wire around quickly.
A detonator needs a more reliable connection. It doesn't have
the voltage to jump an oxide insulator, and it typically has big wing
nuts to clamp firmly onto the wire to the cap. You *don't* want a poor
connection when you are trying to set off an explosion. You lose a lot
of time after a failed shot, waiting until it is considered safe enough
to replace the cap and try again. It also probably needs more current
than the battery in this box could produce.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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On 2010-10-02, Ted Schuerzinger <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2 Oct 2010 01:36:58 GMT, DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
>> You still need a way to check whether it is working, so you know when
>> to replace it.
Who posted that? Apparently someone that I have killfiled. :-)
> Touch it. ;-)
Listen for the tick in the old style that this one is.
Or use a NE-2 lamp with one wire hung on the fence, and look for
the orange glow.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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On 2010-10-02, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>> While I have seen them in use -- in the early to mid 1960s in
>> ranching country (South Texas). There is a limit on how long a stretch
>> of fence one can charge, and cattle do have *some* memory, so it is
>> beneficial to have it portable -- moved from fence section to fence
>> section. Also -- lightning tends to kill them, so having it possible to
>> carry a replacement out there and swap it for the dead one is
>> beneficial. (Besides -- you had to replace the batteries every so
>> often. It cost *way* too much to run electricity to many points along
>> miles of fence.)
[ ... ]
> Thanks for the information, I would think there would be some of these on
> the web but I haven't had any luck when searching for antique electric fence
> starters. Someone sent me the photos, so I can't provide any more detail on
> this device.
Except perhaps what part of the country he lives in? (See
below.)
> I did some further searching on detonators and found two of them that don't
> have plungers, the first of which has what appears to be a pushbutton on top
> although it's slightly different than the one in my post:
>
> http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-mining-atlas-blasting-cap-machine
>
> Here is the one my site for comparison:
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049.jpg
Hmm ... I can't get the "zoom" button to give me a bigger image
(can you), so I saved the thumbnail and blew that up. To the left are
two thumb nuts for connecting the wires. It looks as though the hex at
the right unscrews and provides a plunger again -- it would seem to not
be battery powered.
> This second detonator link doesn't show much detail:
>
> http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/rare-vintage-m-34-50-cap-blasting-machine
I did a bit of searching on "M34" and found this image:
<http://www.billricca.com/trans/sf_mach.jpg>
which shows that it still has a plunger to generate the voltage to
trigger the caps. It is also capable of setting off up to fifty caps at
once, and was issued by the military in the Vietnam era.
Visit: <http://www.billricca.com/collectors_corner.htm>
and search for "M34" on that page. It appears to be about 2/3 of the
way down the page.
>
> You may be correct about it being an electric fence starter, though I would
> be more comfortable with this answer if I could find a similar one. The
> detonator in my first link looks close but then we don't know what it looks
> like inside.
I've tried to find them too -- and can't. Apparently they have
mostly been forgotten. I don't think that "starter" is the right term
to search for. Try "charger". (And, based on Wikipedia, try "energizer".)
It may be that between the reliability problems mentioned in the
Wikipedia entry below, and the lack of regulation (and thus variable
danger levels to humans) those which still work may have mostly been
destroyed once newer ones became available.
What part of the country does the owner live in? If ranching
country, it is more likely to be an electric fence charger, if mining
country, more likely to be a detonator. (Of course, if he brought it
there from somewhere else, it adds to the confusion. :-)
The Wikipedia entry for "Electric fence" says (in part):
======================================================================
Early alternating current (AC) fence chargers used a transformer and a
mechanically-driven switch to generate the electrical pulses. The pulses
were wide and the voltage unpredictable, with no-load peaks in excess of
10,000 volts and a rapid drop in voltage as the fence leakage increased.
The switch mechanism was prone to failure. Later systems replaced the
switch with a solid-state circuit, with an improvement in longevity but
no change in pulse width or voltage control.
======================================================================
The brass disc mounted to the door appears to be the
"mechanically-driven switch".
I wish that he lived nearby. I could then test it and verify
what it is.
Good Luck,
DoN.
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On 2010-10-03, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Except perhaps what part of the country he lives in? (See
>> below.)
>
>
> I sent the owner an email yesterday but haven't heard back yet.
O.K. Time for patience, then.
>> Hmm ... I can't get the "zoom" button to give me a bigger image
>> (can you),
>
>
> It worked ok for me, below is a decent view of it along with the one from my
> site:
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049t.jpg
Thanks!
Note that this does have big thumb nuts for attaching the wires
as I suggested a detonator should have. No way would someone setting
explosive charges want as unreliable a connection as you would get
wrapping wires around the studs on the puzzle item. Those don't even
seem (in the photos) to have threads for securing nuts. (Hmm ... one of
the new photos does appear to show threads, but the thumbnuts are still
missing -- though would likely have been present in normal use, even as
an electric fence charger.
> I thought the large hex nut might be enclosing a pushbutton so that it
> wouldn't get pressed accidentally. Hard to say for sure, you might be right
> that a plunger could be attached there.
Yes -- it is not really clear what the setup is. It could be
that turning the nut by hand charges a capacitor from a generator, and
then pushing what appears to be a button in the center of the nut dumps
the charge down the wires to the blasting caps.
Or -- turning the nut could release a spring-loaded plunger in
the center of the nut, and pressing it smartly back down would generate
the power needed to set off the blasting caps.
But it also has the look of something built for military use,
not mining.
>>so I saved the thumbnail and blew that up.To the left are
>> two thumb nuts for connecting the wires. It looks as though the hex at
>> the right unscrews and provides a plunger again -- it would seem to not
>> be battery powered.
>> I've tried to find them too -- and can't. Apparently they have
>> mostly been forgotten. I don't think that "starter" is the right term
>> to search for. Try "charger". (And, based on Wikipedia, try
>> "energizer".)
>
>
> I guess using the right terminology would have been helpful for me.;-)
Somewhat -- but not enough, based on my searches.
>> What part of the country does the owner live in? If ranching
>> country, it is more likely to be an electric fence charger, if mining
>> country, more likely to be a detonator.
>
>
> I'll post his answer when he replies.
O.K.
[ ... ]
>> I wish that he lived nearby. I could then test it and verify
>> what it is.
>
>
> You may very well be right about it being a fence charger, I'll be
> interested to find out what part of the country it came from. When I
> revisited the original email I found a couple more photos that I hadn't
> posted, not sure if they'll help much or not:
>
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049n.jpg
O.K. This one shows that the flat object is a capacitor (one
designed for use in phone systems, FWIW, and re-purposed later), which
says that the coil to generate the high voltages would have to be part
of the disk timer setup. You can see the hairspring coiled above the
disk which would return it to re-close the contacts after each kick.
There would need to a coil anyway to generate the magnetic kick.
That capacitor is probably rated at 600 VDC based on the
capacitance and the physical size. Enough to be uncomfortable to a
large animal, but not dangerous. Maybe it is used with the coil like
the capacitor is in an old automobile distributor -- it causes the
voltage to ring, prolonging the high voltage output.
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v80/harnett65/Album11/pic2049na.jpg
This one (in combination with the scale from the human hand in
other photos) suggests that the device would be powered by a single D
cell (flashlight battery, mounted with the positive terminal to the
left. And -- it was made for the zinc-carbon cells, not modern Alkaline
cells, so the spring coil to the right would have to be bent to make
contact closer to the center of the cell. It is remotely possible that
it could have been a size 'F' cell instead -- same diameter, but longer
and quite uncommon, except that I've found them in sets of four in some
brands of square lantern batteries -- both 6V and 1.5V ones --
differing only in how the cells are interconnected. More recent ones
are made differently.
There are quite a few areas corroded by leakage from previous
cells, and it might take some work to get this going again.
I wonder how long a single D cell could keep this going, given
that there is only a very short high voltage pulse, followed by a few
seconds of no battery drain. But I would think that it would have a
short enough lifetime so it would be used as a temporary patch while the
main charger is being repaired. This might also explain the carrying
handle.
While the capacitor could increase the current pulse from a
single D cell to a blasting cap, I have my doubts that it would be
enough for reliable detonation. And I can see no function for the
"tick" wheel on the door in a detonator.
I know that if *I* had built this thing, I would not have used
the hinges as conductors. Perhaps a flat braided wire soldered to
either side of the hinges to carry the current more reliably.
Hmm ... looking at the photos again, I see that they are not
intended to carry the current through the hinge pins. There are flat
springs mounted to the door, which connect to other flat pieces of metal
only when the door is closed, so it is disabled when the door is open,
even if the switch is still turned on.
I've not been able to get a satisfactory view of how the switch
is connected to everything else. But the switch is of a kind which I
have seen before -- pull it to turn it on, push it to turn to back off.
Again -- not quite the way you would want a detonator to be set up. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2010-10-06, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just found the answer for this device, it's neither a detonator nor a fence
> charger, it's a lineman's tester, as seen here:
>
> http://www.telephonearchive.com/phones/we/we-early-test-set.html
>
> Someone suggested it was for use by a lineman and I did a search on western
> electric tester and found the link.
O.K. *That* makes complete sense -- even to the presence of the
"slow tick" brass disk and the Western Electric capacitor.
And this one is complete with the thumb nuts on the terminals.
Glad you found it.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Today's set has just been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2050: starting pistol