I'm getting ready to make some built-in bookcases out of mahogany I had
some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.) before
I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
My other question is what kind of finish should I put on it? It's
going to see some good use (i.e. lots of books, etc.) but it's not
going to be battered and bruised like a table would be. And I'm
looking for something that's not extremely labor intensive or
complicated. I was thinking something clear (or clearish) to allow the
wood to be seen and appreciated.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?
Thanks!
Shawn
It was somewhere outside Barstow when "swinter" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm getting ready to make some built-in bookcases out of mahogany I had
>some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.) before
>I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
In parts. These might be quite large parts, but a whole bookcase is
far too big to work on. The parts should be small enough to transport
in and out of the finishing workshop without damage and also small
enough to allow access into corners etc.
>My other question is what kind of finish should I put on it?
Depends on the timber. Central American mahogany is much nicer timber
than African "mahogany".
If it's figured, then you'll want to begin with an oil. Then over this
you can apply shellac. Oil is pretty much essential for starters,
because it shows the "depth" in the timber in a wax that few other
finishes can.
For particularly tactile pieces, wax over oil is an even nicer finish.
Shellac over oil is less work though. Because the shellac forms a
glossy film, then the oil work is less. Wax over oil is a _lot_ of
work in rubbing the oil out first, a process involving fine abrasive
as well as applying oil.
Shellac over oil isn't french polishing. French polishing is a thick
shellac layer built up with many thin coats and abrasion between or
during coats. It really needs big flat surface to show itself off to
the best, so it's rather wasted for a bookcase full of books.
There are also varnish finishes; plain varnish, varnish over oil, or
danish oils (mixed oil and varnish). Only varnish over oil gives that
initial coating of plain oil that you need to bring out the depth. If
you're going to use a "varnish" over this, then the best to use is
shellac, rather than a curing resin.
Central American mahogany shouldnt be stained or coloured. You're
spending so much to buy it because it doesn't need this treatment.
There are a few times when it can be improved by subtle colouring, but
this is rare and highly specialised.
If the timber is African mahogany, then it may or may not have a good
colour, but it will have a boringly bland texture. Shellac over oil
still works, but you want just give a simple oil finish and allow a
thicker coating of darker shellac to improve the colour.
--
Smert' spamionam
I wouldn't stain Mahogany if it has even a passable color. it should
look fine with just a clear film finish. If you do stain it, staining
before assembly can be an advantage over having seams absorb stain
then wick it back out after you walk away. Just don't put stain on any
surface that will get glued.
Depending on what equipment you have on hand depends on what finish you
are to use. If you can spray, I'd use a flat or semi gloss lacquer.
Spray it. Wait an hour. Lightly Hand sand w/400-600. Spray again. Wait
a day. Wax with 0000 steel wool.
Another option is wiping on Poly (I post this advice about weekly). I
love doing it. Take standard oil based poly, mix 50% with mineral
spirits. Brush it on with a foam brush and wipe it down with semi
saturated rag. Three coats with a sanding between the last two. I
prefer 24 hrs between coats but I've heard you can go 4 hours.
Again, wax.
I'd stay away from Shellac, another wipeable finish. I love it on
Mahogany but I really shy away from it on anything that is a
"serviceable" unit like a table, bookcase, case work with drawers. This
just comes from experience. Others will disagree but reserve Shellac
for picture/mirror frames, less used tables like console/sofa tables,
little boxes, etc.
Thanks for all the great advice. Let me clarify some things. I would
prefer to not stain the mahogany, but since I haven't actually bought
the mahogany yet, I can't tell you the quality of the wood. I think I
prefer some sort of clear finish, so I'm thinking of staying away from
staining it.
> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
before
> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
That should read, "Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
before I put it together, or should I do it in parts AFTER it's
assembled."
I don't have a "finishing station" or anything of the sort. It would
be more convenient for me to finish it after it's assembled, but, of
course, that leads to lots of problems, like all the awkward angles
trying to apply the finish. Plus, if it's assembled before finishing,
then I won't be able to do any sanding (if required).
Honestly, I'd like something that is relatively simple without too many
steps. I'd prefer to only apply one finish, but if I have to do
something like an oil and then a clearcoat on top of that, then I'll do
it. I'm trying to find a good balance point between ultimate beauty
and ease of application.
Thanks everyone, and keep the suggestions coming.
Well, one of my problems is that I don't have a workshop. Or a garage.
Or a basement. So most of the construction will take place in the
actual room in which the shelves will be installed (spare bedroom).
But since that room is just a bunch of stacked boxes and books, I don't
mind constructing it in there. At least the wood will be quite
acclimatized prior to construction. It would probably be easier for me
to finish it once it's in place.
But I'm still trying to figure out what that finish will be.
"swinter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm getting ready to make some built-in bookcases out of mahogany I had
> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.) before
> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
>
> My other question is what kind of finish should I put on it? It's
> going to see some good use (i.e. lots of books, etc.) but it's not
> going to be battered and bruised like a table would be. And I'm
> looking for something that's not extremely labor intensive or
> complicated. I was thinking something clear (or clearish) to allow the
> wood to be seen and appreciated.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Shawn
Bookcases generally use both solid stock and veneered plywood. The hardest
part is to get all of the pieces the same shade. Pick carefully the plywood
before you choose the solid stock. A gel stain will also get uniformity in
color before applying the finish.
Dave
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> I'm not using vaneered plywood (except for the back). I know it'll be
> more expensive, but I think it will look better and I'll be happier
> with it if I use all hardwood.
Yes, you will be happier, however, even the back needs to match. Post
pictures when you're done.
Dave
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On 23 Mar 2005 08:49:08 -0800, "swinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm getting ready to make some built-in bookcases out of mahogany I had
>some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.) before
>I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
>
>My other question is what kind of finish should I put on it?
Check out FWW issue 164 page 36 for an excellent article by
Jeff Jewitt. I followed his advice for my bookshelves (Honduran
mahogany structure, mahogany veneer ply shelves with edging where
needed, and cherry veneer ply (blonde shellac only) for side and back
panels).
Jeff pushes his own coloring agents, among others, but what
the hey. Here's the sequence: water based bottom stain, colored
linseed oil to seal, and shellac and wax to finish. It takes a while,
but most of the time is waiting for the oil to dry enough.
He stains because (1) he wants the look of mahogany you can't
get any more (Cuban/Santo Domingo - a different species they used back
in the 1700-1800s) and (2) to even out the color variations from board
to board. I know most people don't want to stain, and I hate any extra
steps, but the mahogany I had looked like it came from three different
planets and the furniture would have looked way too busy with a clear
finish. Plus the dark mahog. and the light cherry (for the next few
years anyway) looked great.
I finished everything before assembly. It's much easier to
prevent streaks when you don't have odd shaped corners to futz with.
It's very easy to mask the places you don't want finished (mortices
and tenons for me). A shellac coat repels the glue that may squeeze
out during assembly, so don't worry about that. Just scrape it off
gently and touch up with more shellac (I used garnet).
I am now making the last component in the shelving project and
the remaining wood looks like it comes from *four* planets! I've got
rose-colored burl, I swear, along with more normal brown mahogany. The
only way it will match the other units is with the same stain.
=====
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others.
=====
{remove curly brackets for email}
Finishing before/after assembly depends on _both_ the finishing schedule, and
the construction method. In some cases, you might even apply all but the final
finishing step before assembly, then a final topcoat after. Some construction
methods will require taping many joints in order to finish before assembly. In
some cases you'll also expect to be doing some final trimming/planing/sanding
after assembly, which could mess us the finish (or not; would mess up stain,
but oil can be more easily touched up).
I'm just starting on several large units, some 8'hx8'w. Large enough to pretty
much fill my finishing room when assembled. However, most of the construction
will be either biscuits or confirmet screws (mdf core harwood ply), so I can
finish most everything before assembly of the carcass, without bothering to
mask, except that all the edging has to be attached first.
Point is you can't get a good answer until you can think through all the steps
involved. But keep poking and discussing, and you may get there.
GerryG
On 24 Mar 2005 06:53:38 -0800, "swinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks for all the great advice. Let me clarify some things. I would
>prefer to not stain the mahogany, but since I haven't actually bought
>the mahogany yet, I can't tell you the quality of the wood. I think I
>prefer some sort of clear finish, so I'm thinking of staying away from
>staining it.
>
>> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
>before
>> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
>
>That should read, "Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
>before I put it together, or should I do it in parts AFTER it's
>assembled."
>
>I don't have a "finishing station" or anything of the sort. It would
>be more convenient for me to finish it after it's assembled, but, of
>course, that leads to lots of problems, like all the awkward angles
>trying to apply the finish. Plus, if it's assembled before finishing,
>then I won't be able to do any sanding (if required).
>
>Honestly, I'd like something that is relatively simple without too many
>steps. I'd prefer to only apply one finish, but if I have to do
>something like an oil and then a clearcoat on top of that, then I'll do
>it. I'm trying to find a good balance point between ultimate beauty
>and ease of application.
>
>Thanks everyone, and keep the suggestions coming.
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> writes:
>swinter wrote:
>> I'm getting ready to make some built-in bookcases out of mahogany I had
>> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.) before
>> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
>>
>> My other question is what kind of finish should I put on it? It's
>> going to see some good use (i.e. lots of books, etc.) but it's not
>> going to be battered and bruised like a table would be. And I'm
>> looking for something that's not extremely labor intensive or
>> complicated. I was thinking something clear (or clearish) to allow the
>> wood to be seen and appreciated.
>>
>> Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Shawn
>>
>Type of finish-- I would go with Watco danish oil,
>natural, no stain, and 3 or 4 coats. Be sure to
>add a dryer,e.g., Gillespies Japan Dryer, so that
>you get faster drying and a harder finish quicker.
>Watco is just wipe on, let set, and wipe off.
To this point, no one has really addressed the fact that this is
a bookshelf. Here is some information on wood selection and
finish for bookshelves:
<http://www.nedcc.org/plam3/tleaf42.htm>
extracts:
WOOD
Storage furniture, especially shelving, made of wood has traditionally been
popular for reasons of aesthetics, economy, and ease of construction. Harmful
acids and other substances, however, are emitted by wood, wood composites, and
some sealants and adhesives. Although the levels of emissions are highest
initially, in most cases volatiles are present for the life of the materials.
To avoid potential damage to collections, storage furniture made of wood or
wood products should be avoided. If this is not possible and wood must be used,
precautions are necessary. Certain woods and wood composites are more potentially
damaging than others. For example, oak, which has been used extensively for
the storage of library and archival materials, is considered the wood with the
most volatile acidity and should not be used. Also, many wood composites that
are advertised as formaldehyde-free may contain potentially damaging acids or
other aldehydes. Current information should be obtained prior to selecting new
furniture made of wood or a wood product so that the least damaging wood can
be chosen. All wood and wood composites should be tested to determine their safety for use.
COATINGS FOR WOOD
For wooden storage furniture that is already in use, safeguards should be taken.
All wood should be sealed. It should be noted, though, that no coating or sealant
will completely block the emission of acids and harmful volatiles for prolonged
periods of time, but it can be useful for short-term exposure. Also, some sealants
are better than others at blocking damaging substances. Great care must be taken
in selecting a sealant to make sure that the one chosen forms the most effective
barrier and does not itself emit harmful substances.
The most readily available sealant that is recommended at this time is a moisture-borne
polyurethane. Many kinds of polyurethane are available. Oil-modified polyurethanes
are the most common. However, oil-modified polyurethanes, oil-based paints, and other
products that contain oil or alkyd resins should be avoided. Only moisture-borne
polyurethanes are recommended. Unfortunately not all moisture-borne polyurethanes
on the market are safe for use. Also, formulations often change without notice.
For these reasons, the polyurethane selected should be tested prior to use to
guarantee its acceptability. Contact a preservation professional for brand names of
moisture-borne polyurethanes that are currently being recommended and begin testing
with these. Because these urethanes do not completely prevent the escape of
volatiles, choosing low-emission wood products is of critical importance.
Paints can also be used to seal wood if the natural appearance of the wood does not
have to be retained. Oil-based paints and stains should not be used because of the
potentially damaging effects of the acids in the drying oils. Two-part epoxy paints
form an excellent barrier, but they are difficult to use. Latex and acrylic paints
form a less effective barrier but are easier to use. All coatings should be tested
prior to use. Contact a preservation professional for current information before
making a decision. After furniture is sealed it should be allowed to air for
three to four weeks. Because of the toxicity of various components of most
sealants, the sealants should be used with caution and appropriate safety measures observed.
swinter wrote:
> I'm getting ready to make some built-in bookcases out of mahogany I had
> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.) before
> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
>
> My other question is what kind of finish should I put on it? It's
> going to see some good use (i.e. lots of books, etc.) but it's not
> going to be battered and bruised like a table would be. And I'm
> looking for something that's not extremely labor intensive or
> complicated. I was thinking something clear (or clearish) to allow the
> wood to be seen and appreciated.
>
> Thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Shawn
>
Type of finish-- I would go with Watco danish oil,
natural, no stain, and 3 or 4 coats. Be sure to
add a dryer,e.g., Gillespies Japan Dryer, so that
you get faster drying and a harder finish quicker.
Watco is just wipe on, let set, and wipe off.
About as minimal labor as possible. Easy to
repair, just wipe some more on.
If you use darker color Watco oil, it will tend to
muddy the wood, clear, will be better.
When to finish-- You can put on a coat on before
gluing it up, or even before cutting dadoes, but
the last coats should be after the case is completed.
Watco Danish Oil Natural....
Let it dry SEVERAL days
Put on a good wax...rub to a nice sheen.
or
Cut a solution of poly by 50% with mineral
spirits and put on several liberal coats.
Sand "lightly" between coats.
or
Find a nice bookcase on sale at the local
furniture store.
swinter wrote:
> Does anyone else have some good finishing tips for my mahogany
> bookshelves?
>
Mahogany, being an open grain wood, benefits from filling the open pores
with a filler first. Unless the wood is all color-matched it will probably
be in different shades of mahogany from a light to dark. A "dye" instead of
a stain will bring it all together.
Lacqer would be my choice for finishing mahogany. Fifteen minute dry time,
self-leveling and looks like glass on mahogany. Not only that but scratches
can be touched up with more lacquer.
William
Gingerbread Keepsake Wood Crafting
"swinter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for all the great advice. Let me clarify some things. I would
> prefer to not stain the mahogany, but since I haven't actually bought
> the mahogany yet, I can't tell you the quality of the wood. I think I
> prefer some sort of clear finish, so I'm thinking of staying away from
> staining it.
>
>> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
> before
>> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
>
> That should read, "Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
> before I put it together, or should I do it in parts AFTER it's
> assembled."
>
> I don't have a "finishing station" or anything of the sort. It would
> be more convenient for me to finish it after it's assembled, but, of
> course, that leads to lots of problems, like all the awkward angles
> trying to apply the finish. Plus, if it's assembled before finishing,
> then I won't be able to do any sanding (if required).
>
> Honestly, I'd like something that is relatively simple without too many
> steps. I'd prefer to only apply one finish, but if I have to do
> something like an oil and then a clearcoat on top of that, then I'll do
> it. I'm trying to find a good balance point between ultimate beauty
> and ease of application.
>
> Thanks everyone, and keep the suggestions coming.
>
You might first think about what you want. Wet the wood and you'll see the
natural color under a clear finish. Do you want the grain depth enhanced (ala.
oil), grain visible on the surface or filled grain for a smooth surface? Do
you want the color enhanced or changed, ala. dyes, pigment stains, colored
shellac, etc.
What type of surface sheen? A high gloss, low, flat? How much and type of use?
Big books often moved around, of occasionally moving light books? Most likely,
you'll need little protection, but better to ask. Along that line, consider
what it would take to repair any of the suggestions you consider.
Finallly, think of how much work you're willing to put in here. From your
question, everybody will just come back with their own favorite. I just don't
happen to have one, as I use a solution to fit the problem.
GerryG
On 23 Mar 2005 11:35:43 -0800, "swinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Yeah, I'll post pictures. But I still need advice on the finish.
"swinter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.) before
> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
?? Not sure I understand the difference between "before" and "before"...
In any event, finish what you can before assembly. My bookcases are pretty
simple and pretty simple to stain after assembly, but there are always
nooks/crannys/door panels/ that should'a been finished before.
>
> complicated. I was thinking something clear (or clearish) to allow the
> wood to be seen and appreciated.
I don't care for the red's in mahogany. In the hounduran mahogany chest and
table I just finished, I prefer I dark brown and use Rockler's Mission
Stain. It's a gel and I like the control I get over the final tone.
That's the color. For protection, so far, I've only used General Finishes
Arm-R-Seal over the stain. I don't fill the pores.
You might want to try this Arm-R-Seal over the bare wood and see if you like
the effect. It's a Tung Oil/Poly/Something else combo.
On 24 Mar 2005 15:27:20 -0800, the inscrutable "swinter"
<[email protected]> spake:
>When you say sand "lightly", what exactly do you mean?
Don't sand, denib. Just take of the rough spots with 320 grit.
I do it dry so it doesn't fill the pores (if any) with sand
grit and bland dust/finish. YMMV
========================================================
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================
www.homesteadfinishing.com and search for Selecting a finish or words
close to that.
On 23 Mar 2005 11:35:43 -0800, "swinter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Yeah, I'll post pictures. But I still need advice on the finish.
It was somewhere outside Barstow when "swinter" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> I'd prefer to only apply one finish,
Number of finishes makes little difference. You're going to need more
than one _coat_, whatever you use, and changing materials once between
coats is very little extra work.
Mahogany, being an open grain wood, benefits from filling the open pores
with a filler first. Unless the wood is all color-matched it will probably
be in different shades of mahogany from a light to dark. A "dye" instead of
a stain will bring it all together.
Lacqer would be my choice for finishing mahogany. Fifteen minute dry time,
self-leveling and looks like glass on mahogany. Not only that but scratches
can be touched up with more lacquer.
William
Gingerbread Keepsake Wood Crafting
"swinter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for all the great advice. Let me clarify some things. I would
> prefer to not stain the mahogany, but since I haven't actually bought
> the mahogany yet, I can't tell you the quality of the wood. I think I
> prefer some sort of clear finish, so I'm thinking of staying away from
> staining it.
>
>> some questions. Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
> before
>> I put it together, or should I do it in parts before it's assembled.
>
> That should read, "Should the bookcase be finished (stained, etc.)
> before I put it together, or should I do it in parts AFTER it's
> assembled."
>
> I don't have a "finishing station" or anything of the sort. It would
> be more convenient for me to finish it after it's assembled, but, of
> course, that leads to lots of problems, like all the awkward angles
> trying to apply the finish. Plus, if it's assembled before finishing,
> then I won't be able to do any sanding (if required).
>
> Honestly, I'd like something that is relatively simple without too many
> steps. I'd prefer to only apply one finish, but if I have to do
> something like an oil and then a clearcoat on top of that, then I'll do
> it. I'm trying to find a good balance point between ultimate beauty
> and ease of application.
>
> Thanks everyone, and keep the suggestions coming.
>