On 8/19/2010 11:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:41:28 -0500, "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> They were advertised at $41.99 in the Peachtree emailing recently, though
>>> they're back-ordered. The parts are replaceable, though also not cheap.
>>
>> Keep in mind also, typically you don't damage a part with a single cut. It
>> takes several cuts before you may consider replacing a part.
>
> Sure, I expected that. It seems that some don't mind their Gripper being
> sacrificial.
It's "sacrificial" nature is the reason why I use mine. Better it, than
me. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Sounds like a great description for a great date!
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Gripper?
I hardly know her!
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> I bought the 2 fer package at a ww show several years back. I am not
>> sure why I waited so long. You can build the equivalent but not so
>> elegantly and they never seem to loose their grip.
>>
>> They absolutely work. And if you cut thin stock there is 1/8" accesory
>> piece that you can switch out for one of the 1/4" sides.
>
> Is there a place where they demonstrate the use of them better? I was
> unable to see the advantages of using one.
>
> From what I saw, it is just a push block with rubber on the bottom. I
> gather there is more to it than that.
> --
> Jim in NC
>
Go the manufacutrer web site there are videos. It is just a push block but
configurable and quickly adjusted.
On Aug 19, 12:59=A0am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:50addc0a-a6a7-4137-8712-ebb10e6714b5@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 14, 12:47 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has the=
m
> > > for
> > > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> > > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off,=
I
> > > suppose).
>
> > Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
> > friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
> > long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
> > up.
>
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=AD=AD-----
> > The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher
> > shoe.http://www.microjig.com/
>
> It does look rather nicely made. =A0So much so that I'd *hate*
> to run it into the blade.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I'd hate to run my hand into the blade ...
I'd hate to run my hand _or_ $69.95.
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:25:10 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them for
>$42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
>They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>suppose).
Bought a couple because of swingman. Definitely worth the cost to
have two of them.
Mike M
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ba2e09fe-fb79-419b-9ab4-eb3160cb13b5@q26g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
> Like a fender on a car parts are replacable. ;~)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scrap wood bin. Cost = negligable to nothing.
That is what I use'ta say...
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:52:45 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:45:58 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> That is correct in some instances. Will your guard set up properly,
>>>> when
>>>> ripping stock to 1/8" widths, or when cutting dado's?
>>>
>>>"By the book" you're supposed to rip it with the wide piece between the
>>>fence and the blade and move the fence for every cut or use the off-cut
>>>as a spacer rather than just setting the fence and cutting. Here's a
>>>video (not mine--it's amazing what you can find by searching youtube)
>>>showing the "safe" way to rip 1/8" widths:
>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FullQWi2ZwM>
>>>
>>>Extra credit: What safety rules does _he_ violate in that video?
>>
>> Not sure if this is your point but he likes to reach around the blade as
>> its
>> winding down. I've seen that it a few of his videos.
>>
>
>Actually the video illustrates a way to more safely cut the thin strips up
>to the point that your remaining stock becomes thin it self. Basically if
>you want to use all of your material to make thin stock you are going to end
>up with the fence close to the blade eventually.
Of course. That was the whole point of the video. I have a mag-switch thingy
with a roller on the pointy end for this purpose.
The question was: "What safety rules does _he_ violate in that video?"
Reaching around behind the blade was the only thing I saw.
>The video and the keeper
>pieces on the opposite side of the blade does not address cutting 3/4" wide
>stock into 3~4, 1/8" wide pieces.
Sure it did; "don't do that!".
>The Gripper and "their" splitter addresses this.
We'll see. I ordered a pair. The price was right.
tiredofspam wrote:
> 8 years ago. The saw only hit the market 2 years ago.
> 8 years ago it was still being demoed to the other manufacturers.
>
From Sawatop web site at:
http://www.sawstop.com/company/story.php
"As a long-time woodworker, Steve committed himself to designing a
cabinet saw with all the precision and features he had ever wanted in a
table saw. By 2003, plans and designs were drafted. The first prototypes
were completed and the first production models came off of the
manufacturing line in late 2004. By the beginning of 2005 SawStop the
company, had became a reality.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:22:51 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:08:03 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
>>>>either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if
>>>>you
>>>>don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>>>
>>> No, I haven't seen it. I did see a Biese riving knife today at
>>> Woodcraft,
>>> but
>>> I thought it was for the new Unisaw.
>>
>> Yeah the new Unisaw does have a riving knife but for 10+ years
>> Biesemeyer
>>has offered a removable splitter for 2 or 3 different brand saws including
>>the Unisaws.
>>
> $171 Yikes! Maybe, though. I'd use it a lot more than the full guard,
> which
> not only a PITA to install but makes life more difficult than it needs to
> be.
>
Yes, it is pricey but it does solve problems.
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:22:51 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:08:03 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
>>>either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if
>>>you
>>>don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>>
>> No, I haven't seen it. I did see a Biese riving knife today at Woodcraft,
>> but
>> I thought it was for the new Unisaw.
>
> Yeah the new Unisaw does have a riving knife but for 10+ years Biesemeyer
>has offered a removable splitter for 2 or 3 different brand saws including
>the Unisaws.
>
$171 Yikes! Maybe, though. I'd use it a lot more than the full guard, which
not only a PITA to install but makes life more difficult than it needs to be.
RE: Edge Banding (1/8"-1/4" x 3/4" strips)
Set up the fence, adjust blade to 1/4" max exposure, remove splitter
and anti kick back pawls and use a push block at least 3/4" wide x
5"-6" high which is a sacrifical.
Remember the cut is not complete until the push block clears the bak
of the table.
Yes, a runout table is required.
NEVER reach over the saw blade to retrieve stock for the next cut.
Walk around.
Works for me.
YMMV
Lew
"Morgans" wrote:
> Many (most) cuts that are not rip type operations using the rip
> fence are done on the radial arm saws, or power miter saws, or
> something else.
--------------------------------------
Interesting.
The community college course I just completed limited had a very
explicit
use of a radial arm saw which was at least a 12" beast.
The ONLY approved use of a RAS was to cut rough lumber to approximate
length.
When asked why, the instructor said, Sears & Roebuck oversold the
(safe) capabilities of the RAS many years ago.
Want an argument?
Change the subject.
Lew
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:43:13 -0400, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>tiredofspam wrote:
>>
>>
>>>8 years ago. The saw only hit the market 2 years ago.
>>>8 years ago it was still being demoed to the other manufacturers.
>>>
>>
>>From Sawatop web site at:
>>
>>http://www.sawstop.com/company/story.php
>>
>>"As a long-time woodworker, Steve committed himself to designing a
>>cabinet saw with all the precision and features he had ever wanted in a
>>table saw. By 2003, plans and designs were drafted. The first prototypes
>>were completed and the first production models came off of the
>>manufacturing line in late 2004. By the beginning of 2005 SawStop the
>>company, had became a reality.
>
>
> And voila!, the product didn't sell worth a shit because they were
> TWICE the price of regular saws. He could have had his product in
> every saw in the world if he'd been reasonable. Instead of licensing
> it for a decent price, he wanted full boat for each device. (would you
> call him a greedy bastid?) You see, as I understand it, he was a
> speaking weasel (patent atty) first, a woodworker second. <deep sigh>
>
> He apparently chose gold and infamy over worldwide saw safety.
>
> And the horse he rode in on...
>
> --
> Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today!
IIRC, he first tried to get the government to pass legislation requiring
his device on all table saw sold in the US. When that failed he started
producing his own table saws.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:51:10 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 08:22:51 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:08:03 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
>>>>>either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if
>>>>>you
>>>>>don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>>>>
>>>> No, I haven't seen it. I did see a Biese riving knife today at
>>>> Woodcraft,
>>>> but
>>>> I thought it was for the new Unisaw.
>>>
>>> Yeah the new Unisaw does have a riving knife but for 10+ years
>>> Biesemeyer
>>>has offered a removable splitter for 2 or 3 different brand saws including
>>>the Unisaws.
>>>
>> $171 Yikes! Maybe, though. I'd use it a lot more than the full guard,
>> which
>> not only a PITA to install but makes life more difficult than it needs to
>> be.
>>
>
>Yes, it is pricey but it does solve problems.
Yes, but it is in the "must think about" range. I do hate taking the factory
guard on and off, though. This would solve that problem.
On Aug 19, 9:12=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 19, 8:17 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:51:10 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > it
>
> > >>Yes, it is pricey but it does solve problems.
>
> > > Yes, but it is in the "must think about" range. I do hate taking the
> > > factory
> > > guard on and off, though. This would solve that problem.
>
> > Did you happen to see the MJ Splitter at the Gripper site. Simple small
> > much less expensive, unless you compare pound for pound. ;~)
>
> > I have the Steel version as the "plastic" only version did not hold up.
>
> Sure, I'm on the second set of plastic MJ splitters. =A0I broke the
> first set within days of installing them and I'm confident I can do it
> again so I bought a set of the "steel" splitters on my trip to Atlanta
> Tuesday (hadn't seen the steel version before). =A0The kick plaws of the
> Biesemeyer splitter are very attractive, though. =A0I could retire the
> stock guard.
>
> I have actually had the steel set for about 3- 4 years. =A0Oddly I only s=
aw
> them at the WW show and they were only suggested to me after I mentioned
> that the all plastic ones did not hold up. =A0It also seems that the stee=
l
> ones only recently showed up on the web site.
> A word of caution, if the steel ones fit tightly don't use a hammer to ta=
p
> them in. =A0The plastic is more brittle, will fracture, and chip off. =A0=
Use a
> dry lube on the holes if necessary.
>
> Additionally, with the removable Biese splitter, you can not run the Grip=
per
> directly over the blade.
Ah, good point. I wouldn't have thought of that until...
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Aug 19, 8:17 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:51:10 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> it
>
> >>Yes, it is pricey but it does solve problems.
>
> > Yes, but it is in the "must think about" range. I do hate taking the
> > factory
> > guard on and off, though. This would solve that problem.
>
> Did you happen to see the MJ Splitter at the Gripper site. Simple small
> much less expensive, unless you compare pound for pound. ;~)
>
> I have the Steel version as the "plastic" only version did not hold up.
Sure, I'm on the second set of plastic MJ splitters. I broke the
first set within days of installing them and I'm confident I can do it
again so I bought a set of the "steel" splitters on my trip to Atlanta
Tuesday (hadn't seen the steel version before). The kick plaws of the
Biesemeyer splitter are very attractive, though. I could retire the
stock guard.
I have actually had the steel set for about 3- 4 years. Oddly I only saw
them at the WW show and they were only suggested to me after I mentioned
that the all plastic ones did not hold up. It also seems that the steel
ones only recently showed up on the web site.
A word of caution, if the steel ones fit tightly don't use a hammer to tap
them in. The plastic is more brittle, will fracture, and chip off. Use a
dry lube on the holes if necessary.
Additionally, with the removable Biese splitter, you can not run the Gripper
directly over the blade.
On Aug 19, 8:17=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:51:10 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wro=
te:
> it
>
> >>Yes, it is pricey but it does solve problems.
>
> > Yes, but it is in the "must think about" range. =A0I do hate taking the
> > factory
> > guard on and off, though. =A0This would solve that problem.
>
> Did you happen to see the MJ Splitter at the Gripper site. =A0Simple smal=
l
> much less expensive, unless you compare pound for pound. =A0;~)
>
> I have the Steel version as the "plastic" only version did not hold up.
Sure, I'm on the second set of plastic MJ splitters. I broke the
first set within days of installing them and I'm confident I can do it
again so I bought a set of the "steel" splitters on my trip to Atlanta
Tuesday (hadn't seen the steel version before). The kick plaws of the
Biesemeyer splitter are very attractive, though. I could retire the
stock guard.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:51:10 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
it
>>
>>Yes, it is pricey but it does solve problems.
>
> Yes, but it is in the "must think about" range. I do hate taking the
> factory
> guard on and off, though. This would solve that problem.
Did you happen to see the MJ Splitter at the Gripper site. Simple small
much less expensive, unless you compare pound for pound. ;~)
I have the Steel version as the "plastic" only version did not hold up.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6ff9eb34-4290-4686-9a07-06fc64bfe428@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Additionally, with the removable Biese splitter, you can not run the
> Gripper
> directly over the blade.
Ah, good point. I wouldn't have thought of that until...
I meant to only bring that up as something to think about. The Biese
splitter will not be an issue with the Gripper if you are ripping wider than
the Gripper.
"Morgans" wrote:
> Humm. I have to respectfully disagree. Ever put a meter on a saw
> in operation, to see how much it draws while under heavy load? I
> put one on a 230 volt motor running on 208 and was amazed. Amazed
> that a motor could draw that much over specs, for one.
--------------------------------
Improper installation is not my problem.
BTW, if motor was overloaded, where was the overload relay to handle
the problem?
It's a standard part of a motor starter.
--------------------------------
> More cost and something else for students to tear up.
-----------------------------------
Do you serve that potted buck-boost transformer with or without WD40
on the side for the students?<G>
---------------------
> Much better to get the right motor to start with.
----------------------
Check your motor supplier.
Lew
On Aug 14, 12:47=A0am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them =
for
> > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> > suppose).
>
> Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
> friction tape to increase grip. =A0The tape holds its grip for a
> long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
> up.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD-----
> The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher shoe.http://www.microjig.co=
m/
It does look rather nicely made. So much so that I'd *hate*
to run it into the blade.
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:21:12 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/20/2010 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Aug 20, 8:02 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> sacrificial.
>>>
>>> It's "sacrificial" nature is the reason why I use mine. Better it, than
>>> me. :)
>>
>> I guess the issue is whether people would sacrifice the Gripper for
>> the cut (plan on notching it), or not. The whole saw could be
>> sacrificed for my hand, if it would help.
>
>I just took it for granted that that's why the spacers that do the
>actual gripping were replaceable.
I was just trying to clarify the issue at hand.
>AAMOF, I've used what used to be the 1/8" Gripper spacer block, when
>making 1/4" edge banding strips for shelf fronts, etc, for so long, and
>so hard, that it is now about a 1/32" +/- spacer. :)
We'll see. They shipped them today. I still have a couple of weeks to wait
to use the tools again, though.
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:37:02 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Aug 19, 12:59 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:50addc0a-a6a7-4137-8712-ebb10e6714b5@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 14, 12:47 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> >news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>>
>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
>> > > for
>> > > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>
>> > > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>> > > suppose).
>>
>> > Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
>> > friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
>> > long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
>> > up.
>>
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher
>> > shoe.http://www.microjig.com/
>>
>> It does look rather nicely made. So much so that I'd *hate*
>> to run it into the blade.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> I'd hate to run my hand into the blade ...
>
>I'd hate to run my hand _or_ $69.95.
They were advertised at $41.99 in the Peachtree emailing recently, though
they're back-ordered. The parts are replaceable, though also not cheap.
On Aug 20, 8:02=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8/19/2010 11:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:41:28 -0500, "Leon"<[email protected]> =A0w=
rote:
>
> >> <[email protected]> =A0wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
>
> >>> They were advertised at $41.99 in the Peachtree emailing recently, th=
ough
> >>> they're back-ordered. =A0The parts are replaceable, though also not c=
heap.
>
> >> Keep in mind also, typically you don't damage a part with a single cut=
. =A0It
> >> takes several cuts before you may consider replacing a part.
>
> > Sure, I expected that. =A0It seems that some don't mind their Gripper b=
eing
> > sacrificial.
>
> It's "sacrificial" nature is the reason why I use mine. Better it, than
> me. :)
I guess the issue is whether people would sacrifice the Gripper for
the cut (plan on notching it), or not. The whole saw could be
sacrificed for my hand, if it would help.
On Aug 13, 7:25=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? =A0Opinions? =A0Peachtree has t=
hem for
> $42 (regularly $70). =A0If they work, it's a pretty good deal. =A0
>
> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> suppose).
Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
up.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
> Seems to be a religion for some people. For me the RAS has never been as
> scary as the table saw. I'm happy to have both--gives me options, and if
> I have one set up for an operation I can use the other one for other work.
The only thing I will not do in a shop is rip with a radial arm saw.
THAT should be outlawed, IMHO. A board with some internal grain stress can
cause a bad situation if it is ripped on a RAS.
--
Jim in NC
On Aug 13, 7:25=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? =A0Opinions? =A0Peachtree has t=
hem for
> $42 (regularly $70). =A0If they work, it's a pretty good deal. =A0
>
> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> suppose).
Check eBay - they have a package deal going.
R
"Morgans" <[email protected]> writes:
> From what I saw, it is just a push block with rubber on the bottom. I
> gather there is more to it than that.
Most of the push blocks I have I push to the side, or push forward.
With the Gr-r-ripper, I can push straight down, and feel very
comfortable doing this.
Yes, I could make lots of push blocks with slits and holes, but it's
easy to just shift the middle pieces to the left or right to match the
cut I am doing.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:41:37 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it
>>>>> would naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose now.
>>>>
>>>> According to one account he wants 3 percent per saw initially
>>>> increasing
>>>> to 8 percent as sales increase--I can't see any company in their right
>>>> mind agreeing to that--normally it's a high charge up front decreasing
>>>> with volume.
>>
>> Less than 10%, that's all??
>
> That's just for the Right to use the patent. Then you add on the cost to
> manufacture the hardware and electronics. NTM, the cost of changing
> production methods, etc.
Yeah,,, IIRC the additional cost was going to average $275 per unit. So now
you sell the saw for $750 more. But wait they are already doing that with
out the SawStop technology, eh Delta?
>
>>
>> To be compeditive I would certanly bite. I thought initiallly it was
>> going to add 25% to the cost of the saw.
>
> Probably more like 40%.
No it was not that high.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Not to mention that the markup on most stationary power tools is pretty
>>> low to start with.
>>
>> Profit percentage would remain the same, you don't eat the added cost,
>
> Assuming you can sell an added 40%+ to the customers.
SawStop seems to be doing great despite the big difference in cost.
When compairing sales at the local Woodcraft the majority are paying the
extra price for the extra piece of mind, safety, and better quality.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
> Less than 10%, that's all??
>
> To be compeditive I would certanly bite. I thought initiallly it was
> going to add 25% to the cost of the saw.
>
I would be happy to pay 6% extra for the saw stop function.
I would not buy the saw stop company saw because of the features it is
lacking.
I want at minnimum a 12" blade, and at least 5 HP motor.
Also, my school is wired with 208 voltage. If the saw motor is not wound
for 208 instead of 230, you get a motor that does not put out rated power
and overheats pretty fast, because it runs drawing many more amps that it is
supposed to. Not good for those projects where students are waiting in a
line to use the table saw. Constant use with the wrong voltage motor will
cause the thermal protection to trip at the drop of a hat.
--
Jim in NC
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> IIRC, he first tried to get the government to pass legislation requiring
> his device on all table saw sold in the US. When that failed he started
> producing his own table saws.
IIRC he offered the license and when he was turned down went to the
government. Now I am guessing that most the manufacturers wish that they
had done otherwise. Anyway probably as a result most manufacturers began
offering riving knives and marginally better guards. Now I believe all saws
have to have the riving knives.
Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:15:10 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/18/2010 5:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> I thought you got $150 in exchange for the motor? My Crapsman has a splitter
>> and plaws. How is the riving knife better?
>
>Rides up and down with the blade, therefore doesn't get in the way of
>push blocks toward the end of a cut like pawls can, and can generally be
>left on when doing non-through cuts ... the latter being as big a plus
>as the safety factor.
I understand how they differ on a table saw, but a RAS splitter does go up and
down with the blade. It's part of the blade guard, mounted to the motor.
>There might be more ...
On 8/18/2010 11:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>>
>> The workings of a riving knife on a TS are more complicated and I
>> would have to imagine that it would have to be designed in, vs.
>> being an add on.
> ----------------------------------
> SFWIW, the local community college has fitted Unisaw, General& PM66
> with the following:
>
> Delta Anti-Kick-Back (78-968).
>
> About $200& change.
>
> Snaps in and out as needed.
>
> Sure makes life simple when you need it.
If you remove the plastic hoods on the old model stock unisaw blade
guard, you end up with basically the same device. It doesn't snap in,
and you still have to turn a built-in knurled knob to install it (takes
all of ten seconds) but you end up with a sturdy, easily installed
splitter that serves the main purposes behind using a splitter ...
keeping reaction wood from binding the blade past the cut, and keeping
stock from engaging the rear of the blade and being thrown back at the
operator.
My personal preference is to also forgo the pawls, which in my opinion
are no more than lip service to the manufacturer's morbid fear of
liability/lawyers.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Leon" wrote:
>
> The workings of a riving knife on a TS are more complicated and I
> would have to imagine that it would have to be designed in, vs.
> being an add on.
----------------------------------
SFWIW, the local community college has fitted Unisaw, General & PM66
with the following:
Delta Anti-Kick-Back (78-968).
About $200 & change.
Snaps in and out as needed.
Sure makes life simple when you need it.
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:15:10 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 8/18/2010 5:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> I thought you got $150 in exchange for the motor? My Crapsman has a
>>> splitter
>>> and plaws. How is the riving knife better?
>>
>>Rides up and down with the blade, therefore doesn't get in the way of
>>push blocks toward the end of a cut like pawls can, and can generally be
>>left on when doing non-through cuts ... the latter being as big a plus
>>as the safety factor.
>
> I understand how they differ on a table saw, but a RAS splitter does go up
> and
> down with the blade. It's part of the blade guard, mounted to the motor.
>
>>There might be more ...
The workings of a riving knife on a TS are more complicated and I would have
to imagine that it would have to be designed in, vs. being an add on.
"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
> My injury was also after the cut and
>> after the saw was turned off. SawStop would have prevented my injury.
>
> Not sure, but my guess is after the saw is turned off, saw stop will no
> longer work?
Nope, I confirmed this about 8 years ago. Turning the SawStop motor off
does not turn off its ability to dectct flesh while the blade is still
spinning. Until the blade stops spinning the brake works as it would when
cutting wood.
IIRC there are 2 switches, the main that powers the safety device and also
powers the switch to turn the saw on. Also IIRC the system has to power up
so to speak before you can turn the saw on. If during the initial power up
a fault is detected you can not turn the saw on.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:08:03 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
>>either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if
>>you
>>don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>
> No, I haven't seen it. I did see a Biese riving knife today at Woodcraft,
> but
> I thought it was for the new Unisaw.
Yeah the new Unisaw does have a riving knife but for 10+ years Biesemeyer
has offered a removable splitter for 2 or 3 different brand saws including
the Unisaws.
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:28:33 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:6ff9eb34-4290-4686-9a07-06fc64bfe428@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Additionally, with the removable Biese splitter, you can not run the
>> Gripper
>> directly over the blade.
>
>Ah, good point. I wouldn't have thought of that until...
>
>I meant to only bring that up as something to think about. The Biese
>splitter will not be an issue with the Gripper if you are ripping wider than
>the Gripper.
Yes, it certainly is something to think about. Thanks! I decided to buy a
pair of Grippers just *for* the narrow work, though.
On 8/18/2010 9:22 AM, Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:08:03 -0500, "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
>>> either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if
>>> you
>>> don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>>
>> No, I haven't seen it. I did see a Biese riving knife today at Woodcraft,
>> but
>> I thought it was for the new Unisaw.
>
> Yeah the new Unisaw does have a riving knife but for 10+ years Biesemeyer
> has offered a removable splitter for 2 or 3 different brand saws including
> the Unisaws.
Just FWIW, a riving knife is part of the new guard you get with the
recall on Craftsman radial arm saws.
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:08:03 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:31:25 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Now" is not 18 months ago. ;~) And perhaps what I should have mentioned
>>>was that that TS being manufacutred "now" whould have the riving knife, as
>>>I
>>>have been told. Basically it is very easy to buy a new saw with a riving
>>>knife now with out having to go to a specific brand in particular. There
>>>may be exceptions to the rule.
>>>BTY the "latest" Unisaw that appeared last year, the one with 2 controll
>>>wheels on the front, has a riving knife. Jet has had one for about 2-3
>>>years, Powermatic introduced it with the 2000 model.
>>
>> Yes, but they're still selling the older Unisaurs. I don't believe
>> they've
>> retrofitted a riving knife. I don't see one, anyway:
>
>I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
>either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if you
>don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
No, I haven't seen it. I did see a Biese riving knife today at Woodcraft, but
I thought it was for the new Unisaw.
>>
>> http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11143
>>
>>
>>>>>Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>>>>>introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>>>>wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>>>>
>>>> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
>>>
>>>No. Is there an option to buy a saw with out the guard? I highly suspect
>>>the government has been involved in some way.
>>>As a majority of users do not use the guard....
>>
>> My bet is that it's their lawyers who have made this decision, not a
>> government mandate.3
>
>Some way or another the manufacturers are being convinced.
There is a difference.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:45:58 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> That is correct in some instances. Will your guard set up properly,
>>> when
>>> ripping stock to 1/8" widths, or when cutting dado's?
>>
>>"By the book" you're supposed to rip it with the wide piece between the
>>fence and the blade and move the fence for every cut or use the off-cut
>>as a spacer rather than just setting the fence and cutting. Here's a
>>video (not mine--it's amazing what you can find by searching youtube)
>>showing the "safe" way to rip 1/8" widths:
>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FullQWi2ZwM>
>>
>>Extra credit: What safety rules does _he_ violate in that video?
>
> Not sure if this is your point but he likes to reach around the blade as
> its
> winding down. I've seen that it a few of his videos.
>
Actually the video illustrates a way to more safely cut the thin strips up
to the point that your remaining stock becomes thin it self. Basically if
you want to use all of your material to make thin stock you are going to end
up with the fence close to the blade eventually. The video and the keeper
pieces on the opposite side of the blade does not address cutting 3/4" wide
stock into 3~4, 1/8" wide pieces.
The Gripper and "their" splitter addresses this.
On 8/15/2010 3:17 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:37:11 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/15/2010 11:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> "Morgans"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>> I have a couple comments.
>>
>>>> Not for me, in most cases, I think.
>>>> I know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
>>>
>>> Before I
>>> actually used these things I felt the same way you do. Then I saw them
>>> demoed at a ww show, took them home, and set most all of my home made sticks
>>> and pushers, and hold downs aside.
>>
>> Agreed. Universal truth, in "New Math" context:
>>
>> Ignorance = It - what you don't know about It
>
> Ignorance = IT - what you KNOW about IT
Nope, that's "math". :)
> ...but I actually liked "new math". ;-)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> They were advertised at $41.99 in the Peachtree emailing recently, though
> they're back-ordered. The parts are replaceable, though also not cheap.
Keep in mind also, typically you don't damage a part with a single cut. It
takes several cuts before you may consider replacing a part.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:39:21 -0500, Steve Turner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
>>> for
>>> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>>
>>> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>>> suppose).
>>
>>You probably won't want to take the advice of a "maroon", but I'll chime
>>in
>>anyway. They *absolutely* work and are _worth_every_penny_, especially at
>>that
>>price. As others have said GET TWO; you won't be sorry. And be sure the
>>model
>>you get has the "balance support" attachment; that's one of the handiest
>>damn
>>things I've ever used (I think that attachment comes with the base model,
>>but
>>I'd check to be sure).
>
> I guess I'll have to do some more research to see exactly what this
> package
> is. It's billed as the "Gripper 200 Advanced Model". Perhaps I'll order
> a
> couple (after checking eBay, too). Thanks, all!
>
One last thing here, these things are meant to be sacrificial. As I
mentioned earlier you buy and replace most any part.
That said there is a DVD that came with mine and is a very interesting
video. IIRC it is 30-45 minutes and shows all the different applications.
One that interested me in particular was the woodworker that cuts narrow
veneer on his TS and uses the Gripper to act as a top side zero clearance
insert. The slick smooth side of the gripper will ride along the side of
your rip fence quite well. The gentleman use the gripper against the fence
to insure that cut after cut the blade followed the same path through the
gripper pad when cutting thin strops of veneer. Very interesting and
effective.
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:42:39 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>> IIRC, he first tried to get the government to pass legislation requiring
>> his device on all table saw sold in the US. When that failed he started
>> producing his own table saws.
>
>IIRC he offered the license and when he was turned down went to the
>government. Now I am guessing that most the manufacturers wish that they
>had done otherwise. Anyway probably as a result most manufacturers began
>offering riving knives and marginally better guards. Now I believe all saws
>have to have the riving knives.
Since when? My 18-month-old Unisaur doesn't have a riving knife. They're
still selling them.
>Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
Got a cite for the "mandate"?
[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:42:39 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>
>>>IIRC, he first tried to get the government to pass legislation requiring
>>>his device on all table saw sold in the US. When that failed he started
>>>producing his own table saws.
>>
>>IIRC he offered the license and when he was turned down went to the
>>government. Now I am guessing that most the manufacturers wish that they
>>had done otherwise. Anyway probably as a result most manufacturers began
>>offering riving knives and marginally better guards. Now I believe all saws
>>have to have the riving knives.
>
>
> Since when? My 18-month-old Unisaur doesn't have a riving knife. They're
> still selling them.
>
>
>>Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>>introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>
>
> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
I don't think a riving knife is mandatory but I believe in 2009
Underwriters Laboratories required a table saw to be equipped with a
riving knife to obtain certification under UL 987 Section 42.3.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:42:39 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> IIRC, he first tried to get the government to pass legislation requiring
>>> his device on all table saw sold in the US. When that failed he started
>>> producing his own table saws.
>>
>>IIRC he offered the license and when he was turned down went to the
>>government. Now I am guessing that most the manufacturers wish that they
>>had done otherwise. Anyway probably as a result most manufacturers began
>>offering riving knives and marginally better guards. Now I believe all
>>saws
>>have to have the riving knives.
>
> Since when? My 18-month-old Unisaur doesn't have a riving knife. They're
> still selling them.
"Now" is not 18 months ago. ;~) And perhaps what I should have mentioned
was that that TS being manufacutred "now" whould have the riving knife, as I
have been told. Basically it is very easy to buy a new saw with a riving
knife now with out having to go to a specific brand in particular. There
may be exceptions to the rule.
BTY the "latest" Unisaw that appeared last year, the one with 2 controll
wheels on the front, has a riving knife. Jet has had one for about 2-3
years, Powermatic introduced it with the 2000 model.
>
>>Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>>introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>
> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
No. Is there an option to buy a saw with out the guard? I highly suspect
the government has been involved in some way.
As a majority of users do not use the guard....
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 22:53:32 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:15:10 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 8/18/2010 5:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> I thought you got $150 in exchange for the motor? My Crapsman has a
>>>> splitter
>>>> and plaws. How is the riving knife better?
>>>
>>>Rides up and down with the blade, therefore doesn't get in the way of
>>>push blocks toward the end of a cut like pawls can, and can generally be
>>>left on when doing non-through cuts ... the latter being as big a plus
>>>as the safety factor.
>>
>> I understand how they differ on a table saw, but a RAS splitter does go up
>> and
>> down with the blade. It's part of the blade guard, mounted to the motor.
>>
>>>There might be more ...
>
>The workings of a riving knife on a TS are more complicated and I would have
>to imagine that it would have to be designed in, vs. being an add on.
Perhaps, but this piece of the tread (and my question) concerned Crapsman
RASs.
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> From my viewing of the Sawstop machine, I disagree. Other than a nick
> that does not require more than a band-aid, or a broken Sawstop machine,
> that is the best sure-fire prevention of serious injury I have ever seen.
> I wish it was available in a 12 inch blade, and a higher HP motor, and did
> not cost several arms and legs to purchase. ;-)
> --
> Jim in NC
>
I can assure you from personal experience that if you can afford several
arms and legs to buy a SawStop that the first time it performs it's safety
function it has many times over more than paid for itself condisering
medical costs, loss of personal function, and or personal liability if some
one else is injured.
"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>8 years ago. The saw only hit the market 2 years ago.
The saw has been on the market at least 4-5 years, probably closer to 6.
> 8 years ago it was still being demoed to the other manufacturers.
Still being demoed to the manufactureres did not mean that you could not ask
questions.
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> If I were in the market for a saw and the price between the SawStop and
>> the major brands was less than 50% or so, I'd go SawStop. The quality
>> Appears better and there is that peace of mind ...
> You are the second to say that the quality of sawstop is better. I am
> surprised at that.
>
> What other saws are you comparing sawstop to, saying the quality is
> superior?
With out question I would say "current latest models" from Delta, Jet,
Powermatic...
On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them for
> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> suppose).
I've kept two around for years now, one for each hand on the jointer,
when running stock over a dado stack, or on the router table. Excellent
for ripping thin strips and smaller pieces with much more control.
Would not be without them. Highly adjustable, worth every penny, and
they'll cut back dramatically on trips to the emergency room.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:50addc0a-a6a7-4137-8712-ebb10e6714b5@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 14, 12:47 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
>> > for
>> > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>
>> > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>> > suppose).
>>
>> Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
>> friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
>> long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
>> up.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher
>> shoe.http://www.microjig.com/
>
> It does look rather nicely made. So much so that I'd *hate*
> to run it into the blade.
>
> Like a fender on a car parts are replacable. ;~)
>
I do have a kerf in mine. Works just as though. I put off buying one for
about a year thinking that it was expensive for a push block and have many
"slick devices" that were a waste of money. Since I saw nothing but positive
reviews, I finally broke down and bought. Don't regret it a bit. Well worth
the money. And that kerf I have in mine? Better it than my hand.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> I'm just saying it Appears better, side to side with Delta and Jet.
>>
>> Interesting. How would you rank Jet vs. Delta, and Delta vs Powermatic?
>> --
>
> You know, just thinking about it I wonder how much price has to do with
> the Appearance of quality. The price sets some expectations and perhaps
> one sees that which is not visible ...
Powermatic has in the past had a superior arbor and trunion, IIRC SawStop
has equal if not stronger.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:52:45 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>The Gripper and "their" splitter addresses this.
>
> We'll see. I ordered a pair. The price was right.
Seriously I too was skeptical for some time but now I would not want to be
with out them. I truly think you will be happy with them. If you can get
your hands on their DVD it has a world of suggested uses that make certain
things possible.
I have not see all of the on-line videos on the site, perhaps they cover the
gambit.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I bought the 2 fer package at a ww show several years back. I am not sure
> why I waited so long. You can build the equivalent but not so elegantly
> and they never seem to loose their grip.
>
> They absolutely work. And if you cut thin stock there is 1/8" accesory
> piece that you can switch out for one of the 1/4" sides.
Is there a place where they demonstrate the use of them better? I was
unable to see the advantages of using one.
From what I saw, it is just a push block with rubber on the bottom. I
gather there is more to it than that.
--
Jim in NC
"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When you say balance support you mean the bridge?
> I don't see how the bridge enhances feel any different than the normal
> mount position. I do see it useful for joining two or using the deflector.
> But not for grip. What am I missing.
>
> On 8/13/2010 10:39 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
>>> for
>>> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>>
>>> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>>> suppose).
>>
>> You probably won't want to take the advice of a "maroon", but I'll chime
>> in anyway. They *absolutely* work and are _worth_every_penny_,
>> especially at that price. As others have said GET TWO; you won't be
>> sorry. And be sure the model you get has the "balance support"
>> attachment; that's one of the handiest damn things I've ever used (I
>> think that attachment comes with the base model, but I'd check to be
>> sure).
>>
Balance support = angle plate that bolts to the side. Keeps the gripper from
rocking if used on narrow stock.
On Aug 18, 11:58=A0pm, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Gripper?
>
> > I hardly know her!
>
> Go out there and win this one for the Gripper!
...a lot better than losing one without a Gripper.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> SawStop seems to be doing great despite the big difference in cost.
>> When compairing sales at the local Woodcraft the majority are paying the
>> extra price for the extra piece of mind, safety, and better quality.
>
> If I were in the market for a saw and the price between the SawStop and
> the major brands was less than 50% or so, I'd go SawStop. The quality
> Appears better and there is that peace of mind ...
But darn I am not in the market either....otherwise I'd be on it.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Like a fender on a car parts are replacable. ;~)
>>
>
> I do have a kerf in mine. Works just as though. I put off buying one for
> about a year thinking that it was expensive for a push block and have many
> "slick devices" that were a waste of money. Since I saw nothing but
> positive reviews, I finally broke down and bought. Don't regret it a bit.
> Well worth the money. And that kerf I have in mine? Better it than my
> hand.
>
I think it is the feel and the grip that makes it such a pleasure to use
over a make shift push "what ever".
I did find that if you have the middle leg spaced about 5/16" over form an
outer leg you can loose a pencil in there.... I wonder how long that pencil
has been in there, I though to myself this afternoon. ;~)
On Aug 18, 11:54=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:50addc0a-a6a7-4137-8712-ebb10e6714b5@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 14, 12:47 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has the=
m
> > > for
> > > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> > > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off,=
I
> > > suppose).
>
> > Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
> > friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
> > long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
> > up.
>
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=AD=AD-----
> > The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher
> > shoe.http://www.microjig.com/
>
> It does look rather nicely made. =A0So much so that I'd *hate*
> to run it into the blade.
>
> Like a fender on a car parts are replacable. =A0;~)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Scrap wood bin. Cost =3D negligable to nothing.
On Aug 15, 7:25=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Leon wrote:
> > =A0My injury was also after the cut and
> >> after the saw was turned off. =A0SawStop would have prevented my injur=
y.
>
> > Not sure, but my guess is after the saw is turned off, saw stop will no
> > longer work?
>
> Nope, I confirmed this about 8 years ago. =A0Turning the SawStop motor of=
f
> does not turn off its ability to dectct flesh while the blade is still
> spinning. =A0Until the blade stops spinning the brake works as it would w=
hen
> cutting wood.
>
> IIRC there are 2 switches, the main that powers the safety device and als=
o
> powers the switch to turn the saw on. =A0Also IIRC the system has to powe=
r up
> so to speak before you can turn the saw on. =A0If during the initial powe=
r up
> a fault is detected you can not turn the saw on.
Yep. I just used one today and had that issue. Saw wouldn't start
until I cleaned it off - dust everywhere cuz it's on a jobsite with no
DC. Blew it off, restarted it and it worked fine. There are two
switches - one for the stop mech and one for the blade spin. Nice
saw. Well built. Pricey though.
JP
On Aug 19, 7:03=A0pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:37:02 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Aug 19, 12:59=A0am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >>news:50addc0a-a6a7-4137-8712-ebb10e6714b5@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com.=
..
> >> On Aug 14, 12:47 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> > "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >> >news:[email protected]=
m...
> >> > On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has =
them
> >> > > for
> >> > > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> >> > > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-o=
ff, I
> >> > > suppose).
>
> >> > Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
> >> > friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
> >> > long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
> >> > up.
>
> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------=AD=AD=AD-----
> >> > The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher
> >> > shoe.http://www.microjig.com/
>
> >> It does look rather nicely made. =A0So much so that I'd *hate*
> >> to run it into the blade.
>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
> >> I'd hate to run my hand into the blade ...
>
> >I'd hate to run my hand _or_ $69.95.
>
> They were advertised at $41.99 in the Peachtree emailing recently, though
> they're back-ordered. =A0The parts are replaceable, though also not cheap=
.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Can you fab your own parts? Go for it, then.
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
> If I were in the market for a saw and the price between the SawStop and
> the major brands was less than 50% or so, I'd go SawStop. The quality
> Appears better and there is that peace of mind ...
You are the second to say that the quality of sawstop is better. I am
surprised at that.
What other saws are you comparing sawstop to, saying the quality is
superior?
--
Jim in NC
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 21:39:21 -0500, Steve Turner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them for
>> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>
>> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>> suppose).
>
>You probably won't want to take the advice of a "maroon", but I'll chime in
>anyway. They *absolutely* work and are _worth_every_penny_, especially at that
>price. As others have said GET TWO; you won't be sorry. And be sure the model
>you get has the "balance support" attachment; that's one of the handiest damn
>things I've ever used (I think that attachment comes with the base model, but
>I'd check to be sure).
I guess I'll have to do some more research to see exactly what this package
is. It's billed as the "Gripper 200 Advanced Model". Perhaps I'll order a
couple (after checking eBay, too). Thanks, all!
Your school doesn't have 3 phase voltage to the shop?
On 8/17/2010 7:12 PM, Morgans wrote:
> "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Less than 10%, that's all??
>>
>> To be compeditive I would certanly bite. I thought initiallly it was
>> going to add 25% to the cost of the saw.
>>
>
> I would be happy to pay 6% extra for the saw stop function.
>
> I would not buy the saw stop company saw because of the features it is
> lacking.
>
> I want at minnimum a 12" blade, and at least 5 HP motor.
>
> Also, my school is wired with 208 voltage. If the saw motor is not wound
> for 208 instead of 230, you get a motor that does not put out rated power
> and overheats pretty fast, because it runs drawing many more amps that it is
> supposed to. Not good for those projects where students are waiting in a
> line to use the table saw. Constant use with the wrong voltage motor will
> cause the thermal protection to trip at the drop of a hat.
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:50addc0a-a6a7-4137-8712-ebb10e6714b5@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 14, 12:47 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
> > for
> > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> > suppose).
>
> Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
> friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
> long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
> up.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher
> shoe.http://www.microjig.com/
It does look rather nicely made. So much so that I'd *hate*
to run it into the blade.
Like a fender on a car parts are replacable. ;~)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote
> Todays motors are usually wired to handle 208V.
Humm. I have to respectfully disagree. Ever put a meter on a saw in
operation, to see how much it draws while under heavy load? I put one on a
230 volt motor running on 208 and was amazed. Amazed that a motor could
draw that much over specs, for one.
> If not, a simple buck-boost transformer solves the problem.
More cost and something else for students to tear up. Much better to get
the right motor to start with.
--
Jim in NC
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:41:28 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> They were advertised at $41.99 in the Peachtree emailing recently,
>>> though
>>> they're back-ordered. The parts are replaceable, though also not cheap.
>>
>>Keep in mind also, typically you don't damage a part with a single cut.
>>It
>>takes several cuts before you may consider replacing a part.
>
> Sure, I expected that. It seems that some don't mind their Gripper being
> sacrificial.
On the DVD a gentleman that cuts veneers on his TS purposely sacrifices his
Gripper for that purpose. "Zero Clearance"
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> That said there is a DVD that came with mine and is a very interesting
>> video. IIRC it is 30-45 minutes and shows all the different
>> applications. One that interested me in particular was the woodworker
>> that cuts narrow veneer on his TS and uses the Gripper to act as a top
>> side zero clearance insert. The slick smooth side of the gripper will
>> ride along the side of your rip fence quite well. The gentleman use the
>> gripper against the fence to insure that cut after cut the blade followed
>> the same path through the gripper pad when cutting thin strops of veneer.
>> Very interesting and effective.
>
> UK, I poked around until I found some videos of the thing in use in enough
> detail to see how they work.
>
> I have a couple comments.
>
> They sell themselves hard on fuctionality, and I will admit that it looks
> like they do some pretty neat things. It looks like you would spend all
> your time setting up the push stick. Not for me, in most cases, I think.
> I know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
Set up can be complicated if you want to use all the different
configurations. But for 99% of my common cuts it takes me about 5-6 seconds
to get the proper adjustement for material thickness and width. Before I
actually used these things I felt the same way you do. Then I saw them
demoed at a ww show, took them home, and set most all of my home made sticks
and pushers, and hold downs aside.
>
> Second point is that I will never be able to use them in my school
> woodworking shop setting. I have to use a factory, OSHA approved guard.
> Period. The gripper will in no way solve that problem.
That is correct in some instances. Will your guard set up properly, when
ripping stock to 1/8" widths, or when cutting dado's?
>
> Another comment is that the blade is still going to be left unguarded
> before and after the cut. In the two semi-serious shop table saw
> accidents I have been around (one was me at the very beginning of my
> woodworking, long long ago- the other was a student in my shop class) the
> accident would likely still have happened, because the problem took place
> after the cut.
> --
> Jim in NC
It is certainly not a fool proof safety device. But it is the best of its
kind if you are one of the majority of users that do not use the typical
blade guard.
I a school setting I see your point, might also want to consider upgrading
to a SawStop because as you have witnessed sooner or later the blade is
going to get you given enough time. My injury was also after the cut and
after the saw was turned off. SawStop would have prevented my injury.
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:31:25 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:42:39 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>> IIRC, he first tried to get the government to pass legislation requiring
>>>> his device on all table saw sold in the US. When that failed he started
>>>> producing his own table saws.
>>>
>>>IIRC he offered the license and when he was turned down went to the
>>>government. Now I am guessing that most the manufacturers wish that they
>>>had done otherwise. Anyway probably as a result most manufacturers began
>>>offering riving knives and marginally better guards. Now I believe all
>>>saws
>>>have to have the riving knives.
>>
>> Since when? My 18-month-old Unisaur doesn't have a riving knife. They're
>> still selling them.
>
>"Now" is not 18 months ago. ;~) And perhaps what I should have mentioned
>was that that TS being manufacutred "now" whould have the riving knife, as I
>have been told. Basically it is very easy to buy a new saw with a riving
>knife now with out having to go to a specific brand in particular. There
>may be exceptions to the rule.
>BTY the "latest" Unisaw that appeared last year, the one with 2 controll
>wheels on the front, has a riving knife. Jet has had one for about 2-3
>years, Powermatic introduced it with the 2000 model.
Yes, but they're still selling the older Unisaurs. I don't believe they've
retrofitted a riving knife. I don't see one, anyway:
http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11143
>>>Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>>>introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>>wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>>
>> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
>
>No. Is there an option to buy a saw with out the guard? I highly suspect
>the government has been involved in some way.
>As a majority of users do not use the guard....
My bet is that it's their lawyers who have made this decision, not a
government mandate.
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 07:27:11 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/18/2010 11:55 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The workings of a riving knife on a TS are more complicated and I
>>> would have to imagine that it would have to be designed in, vs.
>>> being an add on.
>> ----------------------------------
>> SFWIW, the local community college has fitted Unisaw, General& PM66
>> with the following:
>>
>> Delta Anti-Kick-Back (78-968).
87-431 = Biesemeyer splitter for left-tilt Unisaw
>> About $200& change.
$171 here: http://www.mytoolstore.com/delta/tablaccs.html
>> Snaps in and out as needed.
>>
>> Sure makes life simple when you need it.
>
>If you remove the plastic hoods on the old model stock unisaw blade
>guard, you end up with basically the same device. It doesn't snap in,
>and you still have to turn a built-in knurled knob to install it (takes
>all of ten seconds) but you end up with a sturdy, easily installed
>splitter that serves the main purposes behind using a splitter ...
>keeping reaction wood from binding the blade past the cut, and keeping
>stock from engaging the rear of the blade and being thrown back at the
>operator.
Easy removal is one of its main advantages. BTW, the guard on my Unisaw needs
a 1/2" open-end wrench to remove.
>My personal preference is to also forgo the pawls, which in my opinion
>are no more than lip service to the manufacturer's morbid fear of
>liability/lawyers.
The plaws on my Crapsman RAS have saved the day. The Unisaw may be powerful
enough to just chew them up and spit everything back out, though.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:31:25 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"Now" is not 18 months ago. ;~) And perhaps what I should have mentioned
>>was that that TS being manufacutred "now" whould have the riving knife, as
>>I
>>have been told. Basically it is very easy to buy a new saw with a riving
>>knife now with out having to go to a specific brand in particular. There
>>may be exceptions to the rule.
>>BTY the "latest" Unisaw that appeared last year, the one with 2 controll
>>wheels on the front, has a riving knife. Jet has had one for about 2-3
>>years, Powermatic introduced it with the 2000 model.
>
> Yes, but they're still selling the older Unisaurs. I don't believe
> they've
> retrofitted a riving knife. I don't see one, anyway:
I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if you
don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>
> http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11143
>
>
>>>>Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>>>>introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>>>wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>>>
>>> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
>>
>>No. Is there an option to buy a saw with out the guard? I highly suspect
>>the government has been involved in some way.
>>As a majority of users do not use the guard....
>
> My bet is that it's their lawyers who have made this decision, not a
> government mandate.3
Some way or another the manufacturers are being convinced.
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:53:28 -0400, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:42:39 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>IIRC, he first tried to get the government to pass legislation requiring
>>>>his device on all table saw sold in the US. When that failed he started
>>>>producing his own table saws.
>>>
>>>IIRC he offered the license and when he was turned down went to the
>>>government. Now I am guessing that most the manufacturers wish that they
>>>had done otherwise. Anyway probably as a result most manufacturers began
>>>offering riving knives and marginally better guards. Now I believe all saws
>>>have to have the riving knives.
>>
>>
>> Since when? My 18-month-old Unisaur doesn't have a riving knife. They're
>> still selling them.
>>
>>
>>>Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>>>introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>>wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>>
>>
>> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
>
>I don't think a riving knife is mandatory but I believe in 2009
>Underwriters Laboratories required a table saw to be equipped with a
>riving knife to obtain certification under UL 987 Section 42.3.
That makes a lot more sense. UL compliance is completely voluntary, so it's
in no way a "mandate". ...not that I wouldn't put it past Congress or their
bureaucratic minions to do such a thing.
Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:31:25 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Now" is not 18 months ago. ;~) And perhaps what I should have mentioned
>>> was that that TS being manufacutred "now" whould have the riving knife, as
>>> I
>>> have been told. Basically it is very easy to buy a new saw with a riving
>>> knife now with out having to go to a specific brand in particular. There
>>> may be exceptions to the rule.
>>> BTY the "latest" Unisaw that appeared last year, the one with 2 controll
>>> wheels on the front, has a riving knife. Jet has had one for about 2-3
>>> years, Powermatic introduced it with the 2000 model.
>> Yes, but they're still selling the older Unisaurs. I don't believe
>> they've
>> retrofitted a riving knife. I don't see one, anyway:
>
> I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
> either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if you
> don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>
>
>
>> http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11143
>>
>>
>>>>> Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style guard was
>>>>> introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>>>> wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>>>> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
>>> No. Is there an option to buy a saw with out the guard? I highly suspect
>>> the government has been involved in some way.
>>> As a majority of users do not use the guard....
>> My bet is that it's their lawyers who have made this decision, not a
>> government mandate.3
>
> Some way or another the manufacturers are being convinced.
Ever hear of OSHA????
<http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9837>
--
Swingman wrote:
> On 8/17/2010 9:03 PM, dpb wrote:
...
>> Ever hear of OSHA????
>>
>> <http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9837>
>>
>
> 1910.213(s)(14)
>
> Operators shall not ride the carriage of a veneer slicer.
>
> Damn ... took all the fun out it!
Snicker/snort... :)
--
On 8/17/2010 9:03 PM, dpb wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:31:25 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "Now" is not 18 months ago. ;~) And perhaps what I should have
>>>> mentioned
>>>> was that that TS being manufacutred "now" whould have the riving
>>>> knife, as I
>>>> have been told. Basically it is very easy to buy a new saw with a
>>>> riving
>>>> knife now with out having to go to a specific brand in particular.
>>>> There
>>>> may be exceptions to the rule.
>>>> BTY the "latest" Unisaw that appeared last year, the one with 2
>>>> controll
>>>> wheels on the front, has a riving knife. Jet has had one for about 2-3
>>>> years, Powermatic introduced it with the 2000 model.
>>> Yes, but they're still selling the older Unisaurs. I don't believe
>>> they've
>>> retrofitted a riving knife. I don't see one, anyway:
>>
>> I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for
>> it either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get,
>> if you don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>>
>>
>>
>>> http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11143
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Imagine the controversy way back when, when the current style
>>>>>> guard was
>>>>>> introduced and mandated by the government to be use on all saws.... I
>>>>>> wonder who the SOB was that came up with that absurd thing ;~)
>>>>> Got a cite for the "mandate"?
>>>> No. Is there an option to buy a saw with out the guard? I highly
>>>> suspect
>>>> the government has been involved in some way.
>>>> As a majority of users do not use the guard....
>>> My bet is that it's their lawyers who have made this decision, not a
>>> government mandate.3
>>
>> Some way or another the manufacturers are being convinced.
>
> Ever hear of OSHA????
>
> <http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9837>
1910.213(s)(14)
Operators shall not ride the carriage of a veneer slicer.
Damn ... took all the fun out it!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
> for
> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
It works, but you really need TWO for long stock. See their web site:
http://www.microjig.com/
I like it for cutting small stock.
On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them for
> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> suppose).
You probably won't want to take the advice of a "maroon", but I'll chime in
anyway. They *absolutely* work and are _worth_every_penny_, especially at that
price. As others have said GET TWO; you won't be sorry. And be sure the model
you get has the "balance support" attachment; that's one of the handiest damn
things I've ever used (I think that attachment comes with the base model, but
I'd check to be sure).
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
Snip
>>
>> Yes, I plan on watching it. I've been looking at these things for some
>> time,
>> often scratching my head wondering how they were supposed to be used.
>> ;-) I
>> think the DVD comes with the widget. If not, it's a freebie on their
>> site.
>> When they went on sale I thought I'd ask here. Seems like a pretty
>> unanimous
>> endorsement, here, so I took the plunge. Kinda like FesteringTools. ;-)
>
> Except affordable ...
Hey you have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
Festool sells several non corded tools that are as useful as the Gripper and
less expensive. Sanding blocks, tape measures, clamps. ;~)
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:41:50 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:52:45 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>The Gripper and "their" splitter addresses this.
>>
>> We'll see. I ordered a pair. The price was right.
>
>
>Seriously I too was skeptical for some time but now I would not want to be
>with out them. I truly think you will be happy with them. If you can get
>your hands on their DVD it has a world of suggested uses that make certain
>things possible.
Yes, I plan on watching it. I've been looking at these things for some time,
often scratching my head wondering how they were supposed to be used. ;-) I
think the DVD comes with the widget. If not, it's a freebie on their site.
When they went on sale I thought I'd ask here. Seems like a pretty unanimous
endorsement, here, so I took the plunge. Kinda like FesteringTools. ;-)
>I have not see all of the on-line videos on the site, perhaps they cover the
>gambit.
Will do. I'm waiting to until I have one in my mitts so I can play with it
while watching.
Thanks all!
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 08:41:50 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:52:45 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>The Gripper and "their" splitter addresses this.
>>>
>>> We'll see. I ordered a pair. The price was right.
>>
>>
>>Seriously I too was skeptical for some time but now I would not want to be
>>with out them. I truly think you will be happy with them. If you can get
>>your hands on their DVD it has a world of suggested uses that make certain
>>things possible.
>
> Yes, I plan on watching it. I've been looking at these things for some
> time,
> often scratching my head wondering how they were supposed to be used. ;-)
> I
> think the DVD comes with the widget. If not, it's a freebie on their
> site.
> When they went on sale I thought I'd ask here. Seems like a pretty
> unanimous
> endorsement, here, so I took the plunge. Kinda like FesteringTools. ;-)
Except affordable ...
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them for
> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> suppose).
Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher shoe. http://www.microjig.com/
On 8/13/2010 10:13 PM, Morgans wrote:
> "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> I bought the 2 fer package at a ww show several years back. I am not sure
>> why I waited so long. You can build the equivalent but not so elegantly
>> and they never seem to loose their grip.
>>
>> They absolutely work. And if you cut thin stock there is 1/8" accesory
>> piece that you can switch out for one of the 1/4" sides.
>
> Is there a place where they demonstrate the use of them better? I was
> unable to see the advantages of using one.
>
> From what I saw, it is just a push block with rubber on the bottom. I
> gather there is more to it than that.
There is--gaps and adjustability. I got one a while back and am
thinking about getting a second.
On 8/14/2010 4:20 PM, CW wrote:
> "tiredofspam"<nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> When you say balance support you mean the bridge?
>> I don't see how the bridge enhances feel any different than the normal
>> mount position. I do see it useful for joining two or using the deflector.
>> But not for grip. What am I missing.
>>
>> On 8/13/2010 10:39 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>> On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
>>>> for
>>>> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>>>
>>>> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>>>> suppose).
>>>
>>> You probably won't want to take the advice of a "maroon", but I'll chime
>>> in anyway. They *absolutely* work and are _worth_every_penny_,
>>> especially at that price. As others have said GET TWO; you won't be
>>> sorry. And be sure the model you get has the "balance support"
>>> attachment; that's one of the handiest damn things I've ever used (I
>>> think that attachment comes with the base model, but I'd check to be
>>> sure).
>>>
>
> Balance support = angle plate that bolts to the side. Keeps the gripper from
> rocking if used on narrow stock.
Yes; if you're ripping a narrow piece that's taller than it is wide and the
cutoff will also be too narrow for the second blade-straddling "leg" on the
Gripper to rest, attaching the "balance support" (which extends down to the
table surface) gives you back that second leg along with the stability it
offers. Passing tall narrow pieces between the fence and blade is considerably
more stable and safe with this arrangement as compared to traditional push
stick jigs.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 8/14/2010 7:41 PM, Morgans wrote:
> "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> That said there is a DVD that came with mine and is a very interesting
>> video. IIRC it is 30-45 minutes and shows all the different applications.
>> One that interested me in particular was the woodworker that cuts narrow
>> veneer on his TS and uses the Gripper to act as a top side zero clearance
>> insert. The slick smooth side of the gripper will ride along the side of
>> your rip fence quite well. The gentleman use the gripper against the
>> fence to insure that cut after cut the blade followed the same path
>> through the gripper pad when cutting thin strops of veneer. Very
>> interesting and effective.
>
> UK, I poked around until I found some videos of the thing in use in enough
> detail to see how they work.
>
> I have a couple comments.
>
> They sell themselves hard on fuctionality, and I will admit that it looks
> like they do some pretty neat things. It looks like you would spend all
> your time setting up the push stick. Not for me, in most cases, I think. I
> know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
Depends on what you're doing. If you've got a production job to run
then a few minutes setup time can cut the recurring way down.
> Second point is that I will never be able to use them in my school
> woodworking shop setting. I have to use a factory, OSHA approved guard.
> Period. The gripper will in no way solve that problem.
In a school setting where you _must_ use an OSHA approved guard how do
you teach how to use jigs and fixtures that won't work with the guard,
or do you just not do that?
> Another comment is that the blade is still going to be left unguarded before
> and after the cut. In the two semi-serious shop table saw accidents I have
> been around (one was me at the very beginning of my woodworking, long long
> ago- the other was a student in my shop class) the accident would likely
> still have happened, because the problem took place after the cut.
The only thing that will prevent accidents "after the cut" is a Sawstop
and it won't prevent all of them.
On 8/15/2010 12:40 AM, Morgans wrote:
> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Depends on what you're doing. If you've got a production job to run then
>> a few minutes setup time can cut the recurring way down.
>
> No doubt on that account. If I have to do more that 6 or so parts, or they
> have to be to a very high degree of identical precision, I am first to jig
> up somehow. I take pride in that fact.
>
>> In a school setting where you _must_ use an OSHA approved guard how do you
>> teach how to use jigs and fixtures that won't work with the guard, or do
>> you just not do that?
>
> I design jigs and fixtures that will work with OSHA approved guards, 98
> percent of the time. Occasionally I switch out the splitter/ overhead
> plastic blade guard to a suspended guard for the cuts that do not penetrate
> all of the way through. I have a 12" 5 HP saw that will go through in one
> cut most of the time, unless it is a cut that is not supposed to go all of
> the way through.
>
> Many (most) cuts that are not rip type operations using the rip fence are
> done on the radial arm saws, or power miter saws, or something else. That
> eliminates many types of operations that are difficult to perform/jig on the
> table saw. I have another table saw that lives with a dado blade (most of
> the time) and a suspended guard. That also helps it to be practical to use
> OSHA guards on the primary table saw.
>
> My remaining 2 percent operations I do use with homemade guards and jigs,
> but the blade is never left unguarded for an operation that the students
> will be performing at any time-before during or after the cut. If there is
> something that has to be done for a quick operation that is not practical or
> possible to guard, I make it as safe as possible, and perform the cut
> myself. I do emphasise that I still demonstrate a safe operation, and use
> imaginative solutions in making it possible to fully guard the blade. Even
> though it may not be a commercially produced guard, it still will meet the
> spirit of the OSHA regulation.
>
> Does all of this slow down operations in the shop? Believe it or not, I
> think only slightly. I have gotten so used to using all of the guards as
> they are and using guards and proceedures that I have developed, I have a
> supply of jigs and guards that make extra setup and use time pretty minimal.
>
>> The only thing that will prevent accidents "after the cut" is a Sawstop
>> and it won't prevent all of them.
>
> From my viewing of the Sawstop machine, I disagree. Other than a nick that
> does not require more than a band-aid, or a broken Sawstop machine, that is
> the best sure-fire prevention of serious injury I have ever seen. I wish it
> was available in a 12 inch blade, and a higher HP motor, and did not cost
> several arms and legs to purchase. ;-)
Won't stop thrown-object injuries, just hand-in-blade injuries.
On 8/15/2010 12:55 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Morgans"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote
>>
>>> That said there is a DVD that came with mine and is a very interesting
>>> video. IIRC it is 30-45 minutes and shows all the different
>>> applications. One that interested me in particular was the woodworker
>>> that cuts narrow veneer on his TS and uses the Gripper to act as a top
>>> side zero clearance insert. The slick smooth side of the gripper will
>>> ride along the side of your rip fence quite well. The gentleman use the
>>> gripper against the fence to insure that cut after cut the blade followed
>>> the same path through the gripper pad when cutting thin strops of veneer.
>>> Very interesting and effective.
>>
>> UK, I poked around until I found some videos of the thing in use in enough
>> detail to see how they work.
>>
>> I have a couple comments.
>>
>> They sell themselves hard on fuctionality, and I will admit that it looks
>> like they do some pretty neat things. It looks like you would spend all
>> your time setting up the push stick. Not for me, in most cases, I think.
>> I know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
>
> Set up can be complicated if you want to use all the different
> configurations. But for 99% of my common cuts it takes me about 5-6 seconds
> to get the proper adjustement for material thickness and width. Before I
> actually used these things I felt the same way you do. Then I saw them
> demoed at a ww show, took them home, and set most all of my home made sticks
> and pushers, and hold downs aside.
>
>
>>
>> Second point is that I will never be able to use them in my school
>> woodworking shop setting. I have to use a factory, OSHA approved guard.
>> Period. The gripper will in no way solve that problem.
>
> That is correct in some instances. Will your guard set up properly, when
> ripping stock to 1/8" widths, or when cutting dado's?
"By the book" you're supposed to rip it with the wide piece between the
fence and the blade and move the fence for every cut or use the off-cut
as a spacer rather than just setting the fence and cutting. Here's a
video (not mine--it's amazing what you can find by searching youtube)
showing the "safe" way to rip 1/8" widths:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FullQWi2ZwM>
Extra credit: What safety rules does _he_ violate in that video?
>> Another comment is that the blade is still going to be left unguarded
>> before and after the cut. In the two semi-serious shop table saw
>> accidents I have been around (one was me at the very beginning of my
>> woodworking, long long ago- the other was a student in my shop class) the
>> accident would likely still have happened, because the problem took place
>> after the cut.
>> --
>> Jim in NC
>
> It is certainly not a fool proof safety device. But it is the best of its
> kind if you are one of the majority of users that do not use the typical
> blade guard.
>
> I a school setting I see your point, might also want to consider upgrading
> to a SawStop because as you have witnessed sooner or later the blade is
> going to get you given enough time. My injury was also after the cut and
> after the saw was turned off. SawStop would have prevented my injury.
>
>
On 8/15/2010 6:25 PM, Josepi wrote:
> Yeah. A simple DPDT switch to dynamically brake that blade would make that
> long blafe wind-down wait much shorter and probably more done (waited) by
> more users.
1
(get it?)
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 8/16/2010 1:20 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Morgans" wrote:
>
>> Many (most) cuts that are not rip type operations using the rip
>> fence are done on the radial arm saws, or power miter saws, or
>> something else.
> --------------------------------------
> Interesting.
>
> The community college course I just completed limited had a very
> explicit
> use of a radial arm saw which was at least a 12" beast.
>
> The ONLY approved use of a RAS was to cut rough lumber to approximate
> length.
>
> When asked why, the instructor said, Sears& Roebuck oversold the
> (safe) capabilities of the RAS many years ago.
>
> Want an argument?
>
> Change the subject.
Seems to be a religion for some people. For me the RAS has never been
as scary as the table saw. I'm happy to have both--gives me options,
and if I have one set up for an operation I can use the other one for
other work.
Leon wrote:
> "Jack Stein" wrote in message
>> Leon wrote:
>> My injury was also after the cut and
>>> after the saw was turned off. SawStop would have prevented my injury.
>> Not sure, but my guess is after the saw is turned off, saw stop will no
>> longer work?
>
> Nope, I confirmed this about 8 years ago. Turning the SawStop motor off
> does not turn off its ability to dectct flesh while the blade is still
> spinning. Until the blade stops spinning the brake works as it would when
> cutting wood.
>
> IIRC there are 2 switches, the main that powers the safety device and also
> powers the switch to turn the saw on. Also IIRC the system has to power up
> so to speak before you can turn the saw on. If during the initial power up
> a fault is detected you can not turn the saw on.
Sounds like a winner... Sounded pretty good before. My next saw will
probably be a sawstop or similar. My saw is barely broke in though,
it's only about 56 years old and should have that much left in her... I
did look at a saw stop a few years ago and it looks great, Over priced
perhaps, but still looked like a nice saw, even w/o the saw stop stuff.
If I were buying a new saw, I'd probably buy one so my kid wouldn't cut
off an arm after he inherits my tools... and, the older I get, the more
dangerous I get!
--
Jack
Don't worry about your health... It'll go away!
http://jbstein.com
[email protected] wrote:
>> Extra credit: What safety rules does _he_ violate in that video?
>
> Not sure if this is your point but he likes to reach around the blade as its
> winding down. I've seen that it a few of his videos.
Hmmm, I reach around the blade while it's running, running down,
thinking about running. Of course, I don't have a blade guard so maybe
I pay more attention... Of course as I get older, my attention span is
shrinking a little.... What to do, what to do? 50 years of dangerous
habits are hard to break:-)
--
Jack
Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
http://jbstein.com
On 08/15/2010 09:07 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 8/15/2010 6:25 PM, Josepi wrote:
>> Yeah. A simple DPDT switch to dynamically brake that blade would make that
>> long blafe wind-down wait much shorter and probably more done (waited) by
>> more users.
>
> 1
>
> (get it?)
I was pressing "1" for English... (ba-dop, PSSSHH!)
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:25:52 -0500, Leon wrote:
> IIRC there are 2 switches, the main that powers the safety device and
> also powers the switch to turn the saw on. Also IIRC the system has to
> power up so to speak before you can turn the saw on. If during the
> initial power up a fault is detected you can not turn the saw on.
OTOH, there is an override switch for use if you're cutting really green
wood. I'm still waiting for an accident report where someone forgot
they'd used that switch and left it in override.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On 8/16/2010 2:11 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:25:52 -0500, Leon wrote:
>
>> IIRC there are 2 switches, the main that powers the safety device and
>> also powers the switch to turn the saw on. Also IIRC the system has to
>> power up so to speak before you can turn the saw on. If during the
>> initial power up a fault is detected you can not turn the saw on.
>
> OTOH, there is an override switch for use if you're cutting really green
> wood. I'm still waiting for an accident report where someone forgot
> they'd used that switch and left it in override.
The override resets when you turn the motor off, so there's no way to
leave it in override.
On 8/16/2010 6:32 PM, Morgans wrote:
> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Seems to be a religion for some people. For me the RAS has never been as
>> scary as the table saw. I'm happy to have both--gives me options, and if
>> I have one set up for an operation I can use the other one for other work.
>
> The only thing I will not do in a shop is rip with a radial arm saw.
>
> THAT should be outlawed, IMHO. A board with some internal grain stress can
> cause a bad situation if it is ripped on a RAS.
If it's one of the big ones maybe. My 1.5 horse Craftsman just stalls
and pops the overload in that situation.
On 8/16/2010 6:29 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Larry Jaques"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:43:13 -0400, Nova<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> tiredofspam wrote:
>>>
>>>> 8 years ago. The saw only hit the market 2 years ago.
>>>> 8 years ago it was still being demoed to the other manufacturers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> From Sawatop web site at:
>>>
>>> http://www.sawstop.com/company/story.php
>>>
>>> "As a long-time woodworker, Steve committed himself to designing a
>>> cabinet saw with all the precision and features he had ever wanted in a
>>> table saw. By 2003, plans and designs were drafted. The first prototypes
>>> were completed and the first production models came off of the
>>> manufacturing line in late 2004. By the beginning of 2005 SawStop the
>>> company, had became a reality.
>>
>> And voila!, the product didn't sell worth a shit because they were
>> TWICE the price of regular saws.
>
> I don't know where you live but the SawStop out sells Jet, Unisaw, and
> Powermatic combined at our local Woodcraft in Houston.
>
>
>
> >He could have had his product in
>> every saw in the world if he'd been reasonable. Instead of licensing
>> it for a decent price, he wanted full boat for each device. (would you
>> call him a greedy bastid?) You see, as I understand it, he was a
>> speaking weasel (patent atty) first, a woodworker second.<deep sigh>
>
> Does any one really know what the license would have cost? On the flip side
> of the coin, IIRC he was not even going to build the saw or compete with the
> other companies. They chose to not buy the license figuring no one would
> pay that much for their own safety. Now those other manufacturers are
> loosing sales to SawStop.
>
>>
>> He apparently chose gold and infamy over worldwide saw safety.
>
> I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it would
> naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose now.
According to one account he wants 3 percent per saw initially increasing
to 8 percent as sales increase--I can't see any company in their right
mind agreeing to that--normally it's a high charge up front decreasing
with volume.
The guy who invented it is a lawyer and he doesn't seem to be able to
get out of that mindset.
>
>
>
>
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:38:56 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
> On 8/16/2010 2:11 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>
>> OTOH, there is an override switch for use if you're cutting really
>> green wood. I'm still waiting for an accident report where someone
>> forgot they'd used that switch and left it in override.
>
> The override resets when you turn the motor off, so there's no way to
> leave it in override.
Thanks - that's good to know. I *should* have known it, since I used to
work for Woodcraft - must be my senility showing :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:41:37 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>> I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it
>> would naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose now.
>
> According to one account he wants 3 percent per saw initially increasing
> to 8 percent as sales increase--I can't see any company in their right
> mind agreeing to that--normally it's a high charge up front decreasing
> with volume.
Not to mention that the markup on most stationary power tools is pretty
low to start with.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Powermatic has in the past had a superior arbor and trunion, IIRC SawStop
>> has equal if not stronger.
> --------------------------------
> Remember my post (T/S Inertia) about Powermatic spinning 20-30 seconds
> longer than General or UniSaw on power down?
>
> Lew
Yup.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:41:37 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>> I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it
>>>> would naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose now.
>>>
>>> According to one account he wants 3 percent per saw initially increasing
>>> to 8 percent as sales increase--I can't see any company in their right
>>> mind agreeing to that--normally it's a high charge up front decreasing
>>> with volume.
>
> Less than 10%, that's all??
That's just for the Right to use the patent. Then you add on the cost to
manufacture the hardware and electronics. NTM, the cost of changing
production methods, etc.
>
> To be compeditive I would certanly bite. I thought initiallly it was
> going to add 25% to the cost of the saw.
Probably more like 40%.
>
>
>>
>> Not to mention that the markup on most stationary power tools is pretty
>> low to start with.
>
> Profit percentage would remain the same, you don't eat the added cost,
Assuming you can sell an added 40%+ to the customers.
> Mark it up the same percentage and the profit margin remains the same. We
> could only wish that equipment did not increase in cost 10% every few
> yers.
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:41:37 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it
>>>>>> would naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to one account he wants 3 percent per saw initially
>>>>> increasing
>>>>> to 8 percent as sales increase--I can't see any company in their right
>>>>> mind agreeing to that--normally it's a high charge up front decreasing
>>>>> with volume.
>>>
>>> Less than 10%, that's all??
>>
>> That's just for the Right to use the patent. Then you add on the cost to
>> manufacture the hardware and electronics. NTM, the cost of changing
>> production methods, etc.
>
> Yeah,,, IIRC the additional cost was going to average $275 per unit. So
> now you sell the saw for $750 more. But wait they are already doing that
> with out the SawStop technology, eh Delta?
>
>>
>>>
>>> To be compeditive I would certanly bite. I thought initiallly it was
>>> going to add 25% to the cost of the saw.
>>
>> Probably more like 40%.
>
> No it was not that high.
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention that the markup on most stationary power tools is pretty
>>>> low to start with.
>>>
>>> Profit percentage would remain the same, you don't eat the added cost,
>>
>> Assuming you can sell an added 40%+ to the customers.
>
> SawStop seems to be doing great despite the big difference in cost.
> When compairing sales at the local Woodcraft the majority are paying the
> extra price for the extra piece of mind, safety, and better quality.
If I were in the market for a saw and the price between the SawStop and the
major brands was less than 50% or so, I'd go SawStop. The quality Appears
better and there is that peace of mind ...
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> If I were in the market for a saw and the price between the SawStop and
>> the major brands was less than 50% or so, I'd go SawStop. The quality
>> Appears better and there is that peace of mind ...
> You are the second to say that the quality of sawstop is better. I am
> surprised at that.
>
> What other saws are you comparing sawstop to, saying the quality is
> superior?
I'm just saying it Appears better, side to side with Delta and Jet.
--
National Socialism showed what can happen when very ordinary people get
control of a state and the merely opportunistic are regarded as
intellectuals.
Anthony Burgess
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> I'm just saying it Appears better, side to side with Delta and Jet.
>
> Interesting. How would you rank Jet vs. Delta, and Delta vs Powermatic?
Never had my mitts on a Powermatic saw and the only reason I mention SawStop
was I spent some time looking at the other three last week. On Appearance -
which has a lot to do with how well they were put together by store staff -
I'd say SawStop, Delta, then Jet.
"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> I'm just saying it Appears better, side to side with Delta and Jet.
>
> Interesting. How would you rank Jet vs. Delta, and Delta vs Powermatic?
> --
You know, just thinking about it I wonder how much price has to do with the
Appearance of quality. The price sets some expectations and perhaps one sees
that which is not visible ...
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gripper?
>
> I hardly know her!
>
Go out there and win this one for the Gripper!
"Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:50addc0a-a6a7-4137-8712-ebb10e6714b5@s19g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 14, 12:47 am, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Father Haskell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:68433de1-36bc-4958-b7d8-b2537b764dd3@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 13, 7:25 pm, "[email protected]"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
> > for
> > $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> > They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> > suppose).
>
> Pusher shoes can be lined with good, old-fashioned sticky
> friction tape to increase grip. The tape holds its grip for a
> long time, way after the annoying snotlike stickiness dries
> up.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Gripper is quite a bit more than a pusher
> shoe.http://www.microjig.com/
It does look rather nicely made. So much so that I'd *hate*
to run it into the blade.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd hate to run my hand into the blade ...
--
National Socialism showed what can happen when very ordinary people get
control of a state and the merely opportunistic are regarded as
intellectuals.
Anthony Burgess
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:41:37 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>> I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it
>>> would naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose now.
>>
>> According to one account he wants 3 percent per saw initially increasing
>> to 8 percent as sales increase--I can't see any company in their right
>> mind agreeing to that--normally it's a high charge up front decreasing
>> with volume.
Less than 10%, that's all??
To be compeditive I would certanly bite. I thought initiallly it was going
to add 25% to the cost of the saw.
>
> Not to mention that the markup on most stationary power tools is pretty
> low to start with.
Profit percentage would remain the same, you don't eat the added cost, Mark
it up the same percentage and the profit margin remains the same. We could
only wish that equipment did not increase in cost 10% every few yers.
On 8/20/2010 8:10 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Aug 20, 8:02 am, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> sacrificial.
>>
>> It's "sacrificial" nature is the reason why I use mine. Better it, than
>> me. :)
>
> I guess the issue is whether people would sacrifice the Gripper for
> the cut (plan on notching it), or not. The whole saw could be
> sacrificed for my hand, if it would help.
I just took it for granted that that's why the spacers that do the
actual gripping were replaceable.
AAMOF, I've used what used to be the 1/8" Gripper spacer block, when
making 1/4" edge banding strips for shelf fronts, etc, for so long, and
so hard, that it is now about a 1/32" +/- spacer. :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:07:51 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> As I've said, I just bought a Unisaur last year. I looked at the SawStop
> but
> there was no way I was going to spend that sort of money. Perhaps in ten
> years, when the patent runs out (guessing by the dates thrown around
> here),
> I'll buy a new saw with the SawStop feature.
Might be a good plan, to wait..... But this guy being a patent attourney...
He may pull the same thing that DuPond did with Freon 12. their patent ran
out and they lobbied to out law the old Freon 12 in favor for their new
freon that would not harme the ozone.
The current SawStop may be too "flawed" compared to the new 2020 model. LOL
So safe is the new automotive freon that they want all freon to be
evacuated, captured, and reused instead of exposing the mechanics to the
gas...... Toungue in cheek.
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:45:58 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 8/15/2010 12:55 PM, Leon wrote:
>> "Morgans"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>>> That said there is a DVD that came with mine and is a very interesting
>>>> video. IIRC it is 30-45 minutes and shows all the different
>>>> applications. One that interested me in particular was the woodworker
>>>> that cuts narrow veneer on his TS and uses the Gripper to act as a top
>>>> side zero clearance insert. The slick smooth side of the gripper will
>>>> ride along the side of your rip fence quite well. The gentleman use the
>>>> gripper against the fence to insure that cut after cut the blade followed
>>>> the same path through the gripper pad when cutting thin strops of veneer.
>>>> Very interesting and effective.
>>>
>>> UK, I poked around until I found some videos of the thing in use in enough
>>> detail to see how they work.
>>>
>>> I have a couple comments.
>>>
>>> They sell themselves hard on fuctionality, and I will admit that it looks
>>> like they do some pretty neat things. It looks like you would spend all
>>> your time setting up the push stick. Not for me, in most cases, I think.
>>> I know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
>>
>> Set up can be complicated if you want to use all the different
>> configurations. But for 99% of my common cuts it takes me about 5-6 seconds
>> to get the proper adjustement for material thickness and width. Before I
>> actually used these things I felt the same way you do. Then I saw them
>> demoed at a ww show, took them home, and set most all of my home made sticks
>> and pushers, and hold downs aside.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Second point is that I will never be able to use them in my school
>>> woodworking shop setting. I have to use a factory, OSHA approved guard.
>>> Period. The gripper will in no way solve that problem.
>>
>> That is correct in some instances. Will your guard set up properly, when
>> ripping stock to 1/8" widths, or when cutting dado's?
>
>"By the book" you're supposed to rip it with the wide piece between the
>fence and the blade and move the fence for every cut or use the off-cut
>as a spacer rather than just setting the fence and cutting. Here's a
>video (not mine--it's amazing what you can find by searching youtube)
>showing the "safe" way to rip 1/8" widths:
><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FullQWi2ZwM>
>
>Extra credit: What safety rules does _he_ violate in that video?
Not sure if this is your point but he likes to reach around the blade as its
winding down. I've seen that it a few of his videos.
Perhaps we have less time to suffer from the injury so the safety aspect
becomes less paramount??
I remember a time people fought seat belts in the cars but, after having
them forced on us, they became "second nature". Now we feel insecure without
one on. All about habits.
"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
... and, the older I get, the more
dangerous I get!
--
Jack
Don't worry about your health... It'll go away!
http://jbstein.com
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:07:51 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>Leon wrote:
>> "Jack Stein" wrote in message
>>> Leon wrote:
>>> My injury was also after the cut and
>>>> after the saw was turned off. SawStop would have prevented my injury.
>>> Not sure, but my guess is after the saw is turned off, saw stop will no
>>> longer work?
>>
>> Nope, I confirmed this about 8 years ago. Turning the SawStop motor off
>> does not turn off its ability to dectct flesh while the blade is still
>> spinning. Until the blade stops spinning the brake works as it would when
>> cutting wood.
>>
>> IIRC there are 2 switches, the main that powers the safety device and also
>> powers the switch to turn the saw on. Also IIRC the system has to power up
>> so to speak before you can turn the saw on. If during the initial power up
>> a fault is detected you can not turn the saw on.
>
>Sounds like a winner... Sounded pretty good before. My next saw will
>probably be a sawstop or similar. My saw is barely broke in though,
>it's only about 56 years old and should have that much left in her...
Lemme see.... 114. Nope, I don't think that'll be a good time to replace my
saw. ;-)
>I
>did look at a saw stop a few years ago and it looks great, Over priced
>perhaps, but still looked like a nice saw, even w/o the saw stop stuff.
>If I were buying a new saw, I'd probably buy one so my kid wouldn't cut
>off an arm after he inherits my tools... and, the older I get, the more
>dangerous I get!
As I've said, I just bought a Unisaur last year. I looked at the SawStop but
there was no way I was going to spend that sort of money. Perhaps in ten
years, when the patent runs out (guessing by the dates thrown around here),
I'll buy a new saw with the SawStop feature.
On 8/15/2010 11:55 AM, Leon wrote:
> "Morgans"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I have a couple comments.
>> Not for me, in most cases, I think.
>> I know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
>
>Before I
> actually used these things I felt the same way you do. Then I saw them
> demoed at a ww show, took them home, and set most all of my home made sticks
> and pushers, and hold downs aside.
Agreed. Universal truth, in "New Math" context:
Ignorance = It - what you don't know about It
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
> for
> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> suppose).
I bought the 2 fer package at a ww show several years back. I am not sure
why I waited so long. You can build the equivalent but not so elegantly and
they never seem to loose their grip.
They absolutely work. And if you cut thin stock there is 1/8" accesory
piece that you can switch out for one of the 1/4" sides.
And, they can be repaired if you damage them.
Some assembly required.
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 18:32:15 -0400, "Morgans" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Seems to be a religion for some people. For me the RAS has never been as
>> scary as the table saw. I'm happy to have both--gives me options, and if
>> I have one set up for an operation I can use the other one for other work.
>
>The only thing I will not do in a shop is rip with a radial arm saw.
>
>THAT should be outlawed, IMHO. A board with some internal grain stress can
>cause a bad situation if it is ripped on a RAS.
I had a piece of cedar cause the blade to jump on top and come at me on a
cross cut. Scary thing that. I had another piece from the same lot stop the
saw dead; also a cross cut. The thing threw a couple of pieces when ripping,
too. I trust the table saw a *lot* more. At least the table doesn't flex.
When you say balance support you mean the bridge?
I don't see how the bridge enhances feel any different than the normal
mount position. I do see it useful for joining two or using the
deflector. But not for grip. What am I missing.
On 8/13/2010 10:39 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them
>> for
>> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>
>> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>> suppose).
>
> You probably won't want to take the advice of a "maroon", but I'll chime
> in anyway. They *absolutely* work and are _worth_every_penny_,
> especially at that price. As others have said GET TWO; you won't be
> sorry. And be sure the model you get has the "balance support"
> attachment; that's one of the handiest damn things I've ever used (I
> think that attachment comes with the base model, but I'd check to be sure).
>
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:43:13 -0400, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>tiredofspam wrote:
>
>> 8 years ago. The saw only hit the market 2 years ago.
>> 8 years ago it was still being demoed to the other manufacturers.
>>
>
> From Sawatop web site at:
>
>http://www.sawstop.com/company/story.php
>
>"As a long-time woodworker, Steve committed himself to designing a
>cabinet saw with all the precision and features he had ever wanted in a
>table saw. By 2003, plans and designs were drafted. The first prototypes
>were completed and the first production models came off of the
>manufacturing line in late 2004. By the beginning of 2005 SawStop the
>company, had became a reality.
And voila!, the product didn't sell worth a shit because they were
TWICE the price of regular saws. He could have had his product in
every saw in the world if he'd been reasonable. Instead of licensing
it for a decent price, he wanted full boat for each device. (would you
call him a greedy bastid?) You see, as I understand it, he was a
speaking weasel (patent atty) first, a woodworker second. <deep sigh>
He apparently chose gold and infamy over worldwide saw safety.
And the horse he rode in on...
--
Invest in America: Buy a CONgresscritter today!
On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:52:23 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 8/18/2010 9:22 AM, Leon wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:08:03 -0500, "Leon"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I believe you are correct, I have a Jet and don't see a retrofit for it
>>>> either. You are aware of the Biese splitter kit that you could get, if
>>>> you
>>>> don't hace one already? Second best thing I would think.
>>>
>>> No, I haven't seen it. I did see a Biese riving knife today at Woodcraft,
>>> but
>>> I thought it was for the new Unisaw.
>>
>> Yeah the new Unisaw does have a riving knife but for 10+ years Biesemeyer
>> has offered a removable splitter for 2 or 3 different brand saws including
>> the Unisaws.
>
>Just FWIW, a riving knife is part of the new guard you get with the
>recall on Craftsman radial arm saws.
I thought you got $150 in exchange for the motor? My Crapsman has a splitter
and plaws. How is the riving knife better?
On 8/18/2010 5:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> I thought you got $150 in exchange for the motor? My Crapsman has a splitter
> and plaws. How is the riving knife better?
Rides up and down with the blade, therefore doesn't get in the way of
push blocks toward the end of a cut like pawls can, and can generally be
left on when doing non-through cuts ... the latter being as big a plus
as the safety factor.
There might be more ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Yeah. A simple DPDT switch to dynamically brake that blade would make that
long blafe wind-down wait much shorter and probably more done (waited) by
more users.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Not sure if this is your point but he likes to reach around the blade as its
winding down. I've seen that it a few of his videos.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote
> That said there is a DVD that came with mine and is a very interesting
> video. IIRC it is 30-45 minutes and shows all the different applications.
> One that interested me in particular was the woodworker that cuts narrow
> veneer on his TS and uses the Gripper to act as a top side zero clearance
> insert. The slick smooth side of the gripper will ride along the side of
> your rip fence quite well. The gentleman use the gripper against the
> fence to insure that cut after cut the blade followed the same path
> through the gripper pad when cutting thin strops of veneer. Very
> interesting and effective.
UK, I poked around until I found some videos of the thing in use in enough
detail to see how they work.
I have a couple comments.
They sell themselves hard on fuctionality, and I will admit that it looks
like they do some pretty neat things. It looks like you would spend all
your time setting up the push stick. Not for me, in most cases, I think. I
know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
Second point is that I will never be able to use them in my school
woodworking shop setting. I have to use a factory, OSHA approved guard.
Period. The gripper will in no way solve that problem.
Another comment is that the blade is still going to be left unguarded before
and after the cut. In the two semi-serious shop table saw accidents I have
been around (one was me at the very beginning of my woodworking, long long
ago- the other was a student in my shop class) the accident would likely
still have happened, because the problem took place after the cut.
--
Jim in NC
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:07:20 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:41:37 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>> I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it
>>>> would naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose now.
>>>
>>> According to one account he wants 3 percent per saw initially increasing
>>> to 8 percent as sales increase--I can't see any company in their right
>>> mind agreeing to that--normally it's a high charge up front decreasing
>>> with volume.
>
>Less than 10%, that's all??
>
>To be compeditive I would certanly bite. I thought initiallly it was going
>to add 25% to the cost of the saw.
>
>
>>
>> Not to mention that the markup on most stationary power tools is pretty
>> low to start with.
>
>Profit percentage would remain the same, you don't eat the added cost, Mark
>it up the same percentage and the profit margin remains the same. We could
>only wish that equipment did not increase in cost 10% every few yers.
That's only true if a competitor doesn't have that cost.
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:41:28 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> They were advertised at $41.99 in the Peachtree emailing recently, though
>> they're back-ordered. The parts are replaceable, though also not cheap.
>
>Keep in mind also, typically you don't damage a part with a single cut. It
>takes several cuts before you may consider replacing a part.
Sure, I expected that. It seems that some don't mind their Gripper being
sacrificial.
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 12:37:11 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/15/2010 11:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> "Morgans"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>> I have a couple comments.
>
>>> Not for me, in most cases, I think.
>>> I know how to use a saw and different techniques without all the fuss.
>>
>>Before I
>> actually used these things I felt the same way you do. Then I saw them
>> demoed at a ww show, took them home, and set most all of my home made sticks
>> and pushers, and hold downs aside.
>
>Agreed. Universal truth, in "New Math" context:
>
>Ignorance = It - what you don't know about It
Ignorance = IT - what you KNOW about IT
...but I actually liked "new math". ;-)
"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote
> Your school doesn't have 3 phase voltage to the shop?
>
Good point.
Yes, it does, but there is a problem putting more 3 phase machines in place
because of:
1) lack of space in the wire pull trough installed underneath the concrete.
(slab on grade)
2) even more of a problem is the lack of space in the breaker panel for
another 3 phase breaker.
3) lack of money for schools to spend on adding more panels or more wire
pull space or otherwise updating electrical service. I am lucky to get
enough money for an occasional new piece of machinery and other needed
supplies for the shop.
The school district was ripped off by the contractor when the school was
built. That and the inpecting of the work done and acceptance inspecting
blew it. I am told that when they moved in to the school, they plugged a
piece of equipment in, and found it would not turn on. They went to the
breaker panel to check if the breaker had not been turned on, or was tripped
off. They opened the panel cover door, and found that there were no
breakers or wire installed from the panel to the saw stations. The
contractor was already paid and gone, and they never went after them to
complete the work. Perhaps that was how the work was speced. I don't know.
--
Jim in NC
"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I'm just saying it Appears better, side to side with Delta and Jet.
Interesting. How would you rank Jet vs. Delta, and Delta vs Powermatic?
--
Jim in NC
8 years ago. The saw only hit the market 2 years ago.
8 years ago it was still being demoed to the other manufacturers.
On 8/15/2010 7:25 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Jack Stein"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>> My injury was also after the cut and
>>> after the saw was turned off. SawStop would have prevented my injury.
>>
>> Not sure, but my guess is after the saw is turned off, saw stop will no
>> longer work?
>
>
> Nope, I confirmed this about 8 years ago. Turning the SawStop motor off
> does not turn off its ability to dectct flesh while the blade is still
> spinning. Until the blade stops spinning the brake works as it would when
> cutting wood.
>
> IIRC there are 2 switches, the main that powers the safety device and also
> powers the switch to turn the saw on. Also IIRC the system has to power up
> so to speak before you can turn the saw on. If during the initial power up
> a fault is detected you can not turn the saw on.
>
>
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:14:59 -0400, "Morgans" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> If I were in the market for a saw and the price between the SawStop and
>> the major brands was less than 50% or so, I'd go SawStop. The quality
>> Appears better and there is that peace of mind ...
>You are the second to say that the quality of sawstop is better. I am
>surprised at that.
>
>What other saws are you comparing sawstop to, saying the quality is
>superior?
Looking at them today (business in Atlanta - must play with toys). I think
the SawStop is every bit as good as the new Unisaw. I don't think either is
worth twice an old Unisaw, though.
On Sat, 14 Aug 2010 06:26:58 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/13/2010 6:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them for
>> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>>
>> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
>> suppose).
>
>I've kept two around for years now, one for each hand on the jointer,
>when running stock over a dado stack, or on the router table. Excellent
>for ripping thin strips and smaller pieces with much more control.
>
>Would not be without them. Highly adjustable, worth every penny, and
>they'll cut back dramatically on trips to the emergency room.
You cut down on your number of trips to the ER, eh? How many fewer
trips will I make if I stick to the regular $1.99 plastic/foam push
tools?
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote
> Depends on what you're doing. If you've got a production job to run then
> a few minutes setup time can cut the recurring way down.
No doubt on that account. If I have to do more that 6 or so parts, or they
have to be to a very high degree of identical precision, I am first to jig
up somehow. I take pride in that fact.
> In a school setting where you _must_ use an OSHA approved guard how do you
> teach how to use jigs and fixtures that won't work with the guard, or do
> you just not do that?
I design jigs and fixtures that will work with OSHA approved guards, 98
percent of the time. Occasionally I switch out the splitter/ overhead
plastic blade guard to a suspended guard for the cuts that do not penetrate
all of the way through. I have a 12" 5 HP saw that will go through in one
cut most of the time, unless it is a cut that is not supposed to go all of
the way through.
Many (most) cuts that are not rip type operations using the rip fence are
done on the radial arm saws, or power miter saws, or something else. That
eliminates many types of operations that are difficult to perform/jig on the
table saw. I have another table saw that lives with a dado blade (most of
the time) and a suspended guard. That also helps it to be practical to use
OSHA guards on the primary table saw.
My remaining 2 percent operations I do use with homemade guards and jigs,
but the blade is never left unguarded for an operation that the students
will be performing at any time-before during or after the cut. If there is
something that has to be done for a quick operation that is not practical or
possible to guard, I make it as safe as possible, and perform the cut
myself. I do emphasise that I still demonstrate a safe operation, and use
imaginative solutions in making it possible to fully guard the blade. Even
though it may not be a commercially produced guard, it still will meet the
spirit of the OSHA regulation.
Does all of this slow down operations in the shop? Believe it or not, I
think only slightly. I have gotten so used to using all of the guards as
they are and using guards and proceedures that I have developed, I have a
supply of jigs and guards that make extra setup and use time pretty minimal.
> The only thing that will prevent accidents "after the cut" is a Sawstop
> and it won't prevent all of them.
From my viewing of the Sawstop machine, I disagree. Other than a nick that
does not require more than a band-aid, or a broken Sawstop machine, that is
the best sure-fire prevention of serious injury I have ever seen. I wish it
was available in a 12 inch blade, and a higher HP motor, and did not cost
several arms and legs to purchase. ;-)
--
Jim in NC
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 21:43:13 -0400, Nova <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>tiredofspam wrote:
>>
>>> 8 years ago. The saw only hit the market 2 years ago.
>>> 8 years ago it was still being demoed to the other manufacturers.
>>>
>>
>> From Sawatop web site at:
>>
>>http://www.sawstop.com/company/story.php
>>
>>"As a long-time woodworker, Steve committed himself to designing a
>>cabinet saw with all the precision and features he had ever wanted in a
>>table saw. By 2003, plans and designs were drafted. The first prototypes
>>were completed and the first production models came off of the
>>manufacturing line in late 2004. By the beginning of 2005 SawStop the
>>company, had became a reality.
>
> And voila!, the product didn't sell worth a shit because they were
> TWICE the price of regular saws.
I don't know where you live but the SawStop out sells Jet, Unisaw, and
Powermatic combined at our local Woodcraft in Houston.
>He could have had his product in
> every saw in the world if he'd been reasonable. Instead of licensing
> it for a decent price, he wanted full boat for each device. (would you
> call him a greedy bastid?) You see, as I understand it, he was a
> speaking weasel (patent atty) first, a woodworker second. <deep sigh>
Does any one really know what the license would have cost? On the flip side
of the coin, IIRC he was not even going to build the saw or compete with the
other companies. They chose to not buy the license figuring no one would
pay that much for their own safety. Now those other manufacturers are
loosing sales to SawStop.
>
> He apparently chose gold and infamy over worldwide saw safety.
I suspect that the industry could still buy the license however it would
naturally be more expensive since SawStop has more to loose now.
Love my gripper. Buy 2, and get the set.
better than most ... I use it on the router table too.
Great grip, and nice design.
I still use home made occasionally but only when I am going to cut thru
the gripper because of a weird setup.
On 8/13/2010 7:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Has anyone used a Gripper on a table saw? Opinions? Peachtree has them for
> $42 (regularly $70). If they work, it's a pretty good deal.
>
> They also have a good deal on "Board Mates" (a "Board Buddy" rip-off, I
> suppose).
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote
> Set up the fence, adjust blade to 1/4" max exposure, remove splitter and
> anti kick back pawls and use a push block at least 3/4" wide x 5"-6" high
> which is a sacrifical.
Probably a safe way to do the job, but....
You would not want to be the guy paying the OSHA fine, if that were to come
to pass in this shop.
I'm just saying.....
--
Jim in NC