Looks like I picked the wrong time to fall in love with Zinsser B-I-N
shellac based primer. Or maybe the right time.... hmmm....
So I'm in the paint store, yesterday, and the guy tells me that 18
months ago, a gallon of BIN was only 18 bucks, then a year ago it went
up to about $25. It's about $40, now, and still worth every penny in my
book. Must be a shortage of bug spit in the far east.
So, I'm left to wonder.... if I discovered this stuff back when it was
under 20 bucks, would I stop using it now that it doubled in price? I
don't know, but after spraying oil paint and waiting days for it to dry,
I'm thinking shellac for everything, now.
With a gallon of good oil enamel going for more than $40 (contractor
price), I'm tempted to just use BIN for everything I want white... and
heck, it's tintable, so why not for colors, too? Anyone ever tint BIN
and use it for a final coat? I knew a trim painter who used to paint
everything satin, then spray gloss lacquer over the trim he wanted glossy.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
<[email protected]> wrote:
If you are waiting days for your oils to dry, switch to some of the
high VOC enamels that are out there.
---------------------------------------------------
That will never happen in CA and understand it is getting more
difficult to get oil based product in the rest of the country.
I understand air pollution regulations are a little loosey-goosey
in the lone star state so maybe you have easier access to high
VOC product.
Lew
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
> That will never happen in CA and understand it is getting more
> difficult to get oil based product in the rest of the country.
----------------------------------------------------
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I have read the horror stories and listened to the reps talk.
> Doesn't
sound good.
--------------------------------------------------
It's been particularly difficult for the marine industry as well as
the petro
market that rely on epoxy based VOC product for "tank resin" to
shoot the inside of tanks.
Same product was used to shoot high build primer for an LP job.
Lew
On Feb 4, 2:10=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> That will never happen in CA and understand it is getting more
> difficult to get oil based product in the rest of the country.
>
I have read the horror stories and listened to the reps talk. Doesn't
sound good.
> I understand air pollution regulations are a little loosey-goosey
> in the lone star state so maybe you have easier access to high
> VOC product.
Right now, so far, so good. The industry is kind of policing itself
here as so many WON'T use high VOC enamels due to the insurance cost
and the liabilities. Plus, you can't use them on jobsites as the
tenants or homeowners won't put up with the odors. When I spray, I do
it in the morning and by the end of the day the fumes have
dissipated.
And since most of the folks that can site apply oil successfully are
very much a dying breed, the practice is just dying out by itself.
Robert
On 2/3/2013 1:50 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> Looks like I picked the wrong time to fall in love with Zinsser B-I-N
> shellac based primer. Or maybe the right time.... hmmm....
>
> So I'm in the paint store, yesterday, and the guy tells me that 18
> months ago, a gallon of BIN was only 18 bucks, then a year ago it went
> up to about $25. It's about $40, now, and still worth every penny in my
> book. Must be a shortage of bug spit in the far east.
>
> So, I'm left to wonder.... if I discovered this stuff back when it was
> under 20 bucks, would I stop using it now that it doubled in price? I
> don't know, but after spraying oil paint and waiting days for it to dry,
> I'm thinking shellac for everything, now.
>
> With a gallon of good oil enamel going for more than $40 (contractor
> price), I'm tempted to just use BIN for everything I want white... and
> heck, it's tintable, so why not for colors, too? Anyone ever tint BIN
> and use it for a final coat? I knew a trim painter who used to paint
> everything satin, then spray gloss lacquer over the trim he wanted glossy.
>
>
Rustoleum is the owner of Zinsser..
It might be corporate greed.
Or there may have been a problem with the lac bugs.
Also remember that India is going from a third world nation to a
technical nation. And many of the people that harvest the bug and
process the lac to shellac may be dwindling in numbers going for more
money per hour. Or just pushing the price up so they can live better.
My bet is on corporate greed.
--
Jeff
On Feb 3, 12:50=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> So, I'm left to wonder.... if I discovered this stuff back when it was
> under 20 bucks, would I stop using it now that it doubled in price? I
> don't know, but after spraying oil paint and waiting days for it to dry,
> I'm thinking shellac for everything, now.
I don't think so. BIN is the stuff... I use it as primer as much as
possible. And it sprays unthinned better than anything I have ever
used.
If you are waiting days for your oils to dry, switch to some of the
high VOC enamels that are out there. Dry to the touch in 20 minutes,
recoat (depending on the product) in an hour, up to 4 coats a day with
favorable conditions. Get with Sherwin Williams, they are the guys
that got me on their product lines of that stuff and I love it. I can
two coat a metal door (no product solvent absorption to speed up
drying) and is ready to close at the end of the day with no problems.
Shellac has its place, but is has neither the water resistance, the
abrasion resistance, chemical resistance, the UV resistance nor the
ability to not "amber" for most applications. Great for home use,
great as a sealer, but not in most commercial applications. You
should see what cleaning agents used by cleaning companies do to it.
I refinished an interior door that was about a year old that had a
good thick coat of shellac on it. The door was pretty, but where they
used cleaners to remove hand prints the finish came off and the
chemicals stained the wood. (Betcha it was 409... )
> With a gallon of good oil enamel going for more than $40 (contractor
> price), I'm tempted to just use BIN for everything I want white... and
> heck, it's tintable, so why not for colors, too? Anyone ever tint BIN
> and use it for a final coat?
I know you are being tongue in cheek, but for those that don't get the
joke, I love the stuff, too. But it is an extremely porous, extremely
soft surface that is left when it dries. That's a couple of the
reasons BIN is so good at what it does. But it suffers the same
problems as mentioned above, only more so. It doesn't have the
resins nor the compounds in it to make it a top coat.
> I knew a trim painter who used to paint
> everything satin, then spray gloss lacquer over the trim he wanted glossy=
.
That's probably because getting a 100% perfect reflectivity of sheen
can be quite hard in a production environment. Satin is easy to
spray. Lacquer is much easier to spray than oil based enamel, so
combining the two make sense as long as they are compatible. Most
paint suppliers don't support applying to dissimilar products to each
other, but that has never stopped anyone before.
Robert
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
woodchucker wrote:
> On 2/3/2013 1:50 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> Looks like I picked the wrong time to fall in love with Zinsser B-I-N
>> shellac based primer. Or maybe the right time.... hmmm....
>>
>> So I'm in the paint store, yesterday, and the guy tells me that 18
>> months ago, a gallon of BIN was only 18 bucks, then a year ago it
>> went up to about $25. It's about $40, now, and still worth every penny in
>> my book. Must be a shortage of bug spit in the far east.
>>
>> So, I'm left to wonder.... if I discovered this stuff back when it
>> was under 20 bucks, would I stop using it now that it doubled in
>> price? I don't know, but after spraying oil paint and waiting days
>> for it to dry, I'm thinking shellac for everything, now.
>>
>> With a gallon of good oil enamel going for more than $40 (contractor
>> price), I'm tempted to just use BIN for everything I want white...
>> and heck, it's tintable, so why not for colors, too? Anyone ever
>> tint BIN and use it for a final coat? I knew a trim painter who used to
>> paint
>> everything satin, then spray gloss lacquer over the trim he wanted
>> glossy.
>
> Rustoleum is the owner of Zinsser..
> It might be corporate greed.
> Or there may have been a problem with the lac bugs.
Or alcohol. I just bought a gallon a few days ago, almost $15. Can't blame
that on the oil companies.
> My bet is on corporate greed.
Mine too. Alcohol commodity price was about $1.50/gallon 10 years ago, less
than $2.50 now. I've been screwed so many times I feel like an 80 year old
whore.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 2/4/13 1:36 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 3, 12:50 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> So, I'm left to wonder.... if I discovered this stuff back when it was
>> under 20 bucks, would I stop using it now that it doubled in price? I
>> don't know, but after spraying oil paint and waiting days for it to dry,
>> I'm thinking shellac for everything, now.
>
> I don't think so. BIN is the stuff... I use it as primer as much as
> possible. And it sprays unthinned better than anything I have ever
> used.
>
> If you are waiting days for your oils to dry, switch to some of the
> high VOC enamels that are out there. Dry to the touch in 20 minutes,
> recoat (depending on the product) in an hour, up to 4 coats a day with
> favorable conditions. Get with Sherwin Williams, they are the guys
> that got me on their product lines of that stuff and I love it. I can
> two coat a metal door (no product solvent absorption to speed up
> drying) and is ready to close at the end of the day with no problems.
>
> Shellac has its place, but is has neither the water resistance, the
> abrasion resistance, chemical resistance, the UV resistance nor the
> ability to not "amber" for most applications. Great for home use,
> great as a sealer, but not in most commercial applications. You
> should see what cleaning agents used by cleaning companies do to it.
> I refinished an interior door that was about a year old that had a
> good thick coat of shellac on it. The door was pretty, but where they
> used cleaners to remove hand prints the finish came off and the
> chemicals stained the wood. (Betcha it was 409... )
>
>> With a gallon of good oil enamel going for more than $40 (contractor
>> price), I'm tempted to just use BIN for everything I want white... and
>> heck, it's tintable, so why not for colors, too? Anyone ever tint BIN
>> and use it for a final coat?
>
> I know you are being tongue in cheek, but for those that don't get the
> joke, I love the stuff, too. But it is an extremely porous, extremely
> soft surface that is left when it dries. That's a couple of the
> reasons BIN is so good at what it does. But it suffers the same
> problems as mentioned above, only more so. It doesn't have the
> resins nor the compounds in it to make it a top coat.
>
>> I knew a trim painter who used to paint
>> everything satin, then spray gloss lacquer over the trim he wanted glossy.
>
> That's probably because getting a 100% perfect reflectivity of sheen
> can be quite hard in a production environment. Satin is easy to
> spray. Lacquer is much easier to spray than oil based enamel, so
> combining the two make sense as long as they are compatible. Most
> paint suppliers don't support applying to dissimilar products to each
> other, but that has never stopped anyone before.
>
> Robert
Great info. Thanks!
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply