OT The Ranger

On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 22:27:11 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 18:50:27 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>
>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.
>>
>>Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.
>
>How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.

As are you thoughts

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 14:49:54 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/2/2019 1:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>...
>
>> You may have the podium. ;~)
>
>Used the '28 regularly until the '60s...it's what I learned to drive in.
> Unfortunately, while my brother and I were away at college Dad sold it
>to a restorer so don't still have it. :(
>
>Ones I can remember and name included '39, '48, '57, '58, '59, '79(?),
>'88 grain trucks from 1-1/2T to the tandem. Of course, now everything
>has shifted to much larger capacity and using semis rather than bobtails
>for serious hauling.
>
>First PU was '58 Fleetside w/ manual 4 on floor

Other than rust problems the 58 Apache was a solid truck

> (wish still had it,
>too)...altho I can't name all of them specifically as at one time were
>as many as 4-5 on the place at once...the '86 "town truck" Silverado
>still had only 38K on it when we came back in 2000. I gave my '72 C10
>Fleetside (mutard yellow/white) had in VA/TN to pipefitter/plumber
>friend when we came back...I did put new rings in it at about 250K was
>only thing ever had to do to it. AFAIK he's still got it altho haven't
>asked for a while...there was on mid-70s that I recall that was just too
>ugly a tan/brown color that is probably reason it didn't have the heart
>to last. :)
Mid seventies saw the quality decline something awfull Neighbors 74?
you could watch rust away as it sat on the driveway. He got a lot of
highway miles on it - but it spent a lot of shop time - and at about
600000 he finaly let it lie down - it had basically died long before -
- - Not sure what year it;s replacement was but it died at about 6
years or so - the engine and body both let go about the same time


> It was the one that body rusted out on in just a few years
>that is the only one of the whole lot I'd say was a "lemon". And, all
>of them with the exception of just the one or two that were dad's "town"
>trucks were "rode hard and put up wet" in not being coddled and used
>roughly for farm.
>
>Still use the '58 C60 regularly as seed tender and for cleanup work
>around the place. Only work ever done on it is brakes. The odometer
>did fail around 130K years ago so have no idea how many miles it
>actually has...doesn't go a long way at a time any more, but I'd have no
>qualms going anywhere in it this afternoon (if I changed oil first,
>etc., ...).
The end of an era -
>
>'84 Delta 88 did throw rod bearing but I blame that totally on QS oil
>after I pulled intake and saw what sludge it had done...rebuilt it (350
>Chevy engine) and it went to 300K last I knew...donated it eventually to
>some returning friends who had been on mission trip and needed something
>when came back to States.
>
>The '88 88 also had almost 300K on it with no mechanical issues (did
>have to have AC compressor replaced under warranty when was new--a
>machine cutting got left in during manufacture). The headliner had
>finally fallen in it, though, so it wasn't still perfect when daughter
>decided to not pay to have the interior redone. :) A friend of hers
>used it w/o for quite a number of years altho I suppose by now it has
>probably been retired...
>
>I've had almost universal good service from GM -- altho folks had a
>bug-eye 60 Buick when was a kid that never failed us on a trip but
>several times threw a water pump not long after returning from a long
>trip. Dad got fed up and traded it off -- the mechanic at the
>dealership bought it, put one more water pump on it and drove it for
>another 10-15 years without another failure.

He likely got smart and put a new fan on it - or mabee he finally HAD
to. Not an uncommon problem

> I _think_ it's still in
>town altho it has been in storage for last 10 year or so--I don't
>believe they've yet had the estate sale of his collection.
>
>Just may have been lucky, but I certainly have no complaints as a whole
>against GM...
Personall I've had a few - a '28 National sedan, a 35 Master, a '72
(Vauxhall) firenza, and a 95 Pontiac Trans Sport. oh - and a '57 210
and a 67 chevy 2 and a 61 buick Invicta that I only owned for about a
week each - - - The Firenza wa likey the best of the lot which is
not saying much. Didn't put many miles on the 28 or the 35 but the
TransSport nickeled and dimed me to death $50 and $100 dollars at a
time. Of all the vehicles I've ever owned that one irritated me the
most. I REALLY TRIED to like that van - - - -but it just wouldn't let
me. Likely more issues with that vehicle than with all 10 of my
Chrysler products combined. Or my 6 fords. Heck, my PEUGEOT gve me
less trouble.

Fixing or listenning to my friends' issues with their GMs makes me
happy I haven't owned more of them.

On Fri, 31 May 2019 22:51:51 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>
>So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
Just replaced theball joints on my '96 at 365,400km

Glad I had the "blur tip wrench" to coax it apart - started at about
10 am with a trip to Parts Source to borrow the ball joint press and a
set of pickle forks - finished cleaning up the driveway and putting
away the tools at 6pm. A bit slower than it would have been on a
hoist.

On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 18:50:27 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>
>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>
>>
>>Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.
>
>Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.

How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 16:15:53 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/2/2019 5:04 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>>Snip
>
>
>>
>> 1500 didn't have the problem to the extent the bigger ones did -
>> particularly the 4X4
>
>Well I am probably going with 4x4 but I will assume the older 2500 and
>up 4x4 were the ones with the wobble problem.
Like I said -- - -

>>>
>>> BTW, my '01 fell apart in '13. Its frame rotted out where the leafs
>>> connected and the springs were resting on the body. Scary. I bought
>>> an F150 the next day. ;-) It would cost me almost double the $$ to
>>> replace it now. :-(
>>>
>>
>> My first brand new vehicle was a black 1980 F100. $ 5700.
>> 6 cyl. 3 on-the-tree red vinyl interior
>> It was so bare-bones - it didn't come with a day-night
>> rearview mirror !!
>> I had to go buy one at the wreckers.
>> I drove it 13 - 14 years 300 k + km motor, trans, clutch still OK
>> and a young guy bought it to remove the rusted box
>> and put on a flat-bed.
>> John T.
>>
>
> Yours came with a rearview mirror?? ; )
>

I picked up a couple young hitch-hikers one day,
15 year old guys heading to the beach, and one of them
was forced to ask, after seeing me shift the 3-on-the-tree
" How do you know where the gears are ? "
... not stamped into the knob like the 4-on-the-floor cars
that he'd seen before ... :-)
Even for 1980 it was a very rare bare-bones vehicle -
I don't think that it even had PS PB . but the advertised price
in large bold type in the newspaper advert. would attract attention
and get people into the showroom to get up-sold.
John T.

On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 21:44:37 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 22:26:23 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>
>>>>Probably gas mileage.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>
>>>
>>>$15,000 price difference also.
>>
>>More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>>much more than paint for any truck.
>
>An F 150 Platnium edition 55K, my ranger 40K. I do not know about your
>math but I know what I researched as to prices.

Good grief! The "Platinum edition" is "silly money on not much more
than paint". Are you really that dumb?

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>> cold heated seats.
>>
>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>
>+
>
>Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>great!
>
>I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>the Ranger.

Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
Length?

On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>
>>Probably gas mileage.
>>
>>>
>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>
>
>$15,000 price difference also.

More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
much more than paint for any truck.

On 6/1/2019 2:30 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 6/1/2019 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> Thanks for the report.  I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look
>> pretty big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit
>> inside and realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench
>> seat.  The mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison.    Gas
>> mileage sounds great!
>>
>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall.  I wish Toyota
>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will
>> not be as reliable or trouble free.  None of my previous GM pickups
>> were.  I am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra.  Right
>> now the New 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or
>> Platinum are in my sites.  We want the long trip comfort that these
>> particular vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking
>> strongly at the Ranger.
>
> The plethora of cars disguised as trucks is phenomenal any more...but
> you have to search really, really hard unless you're content with
> regular cab or the extended cab to find anything with long bed--and
> afaict there is none manufactured in 1/2T that is 4D w/ long bed--has to
> be 3/4T (which is ok, but don't really need the weight capacity so much
> any more as have moved fuel transfer tanks to trailers for the diesel).
> But a shortbed is essentially useless for farm; can't even lay a post in
> the bed of a lot of 'em and shut the tailgate so can go somewhere at
> speed and not worry about losing half along the way.  :(
>
> So far I've just kept the old 2D because don't need the second seat
> often, but when do, the crammed leg room just wouldn't work well since
> almost always when that is would be for longer trips to the NM ground
> instead of just local.  So, so far have always ended up w/ multiple
> vehicles.
>
> As far as GM, everybody's experience is different, but we've had nothing
> but Chevy's since 1928 and I can't think of but one of the lot in the
> mid '70s that wasn't as reliable as could ask for...I don't recall ever
> doing any major work on any of them; the one was in the era of the sorry
> sheet metal and rounded fenders that caught all the manure and ensilage
> and so rotted out in a few years (like Fords typically did almost
> universally in the 50s/60s/70s until they finally began to improve
> bodies some).
>
> Ram made huge inroads out here in farm/oil patch country when first
> introduced the new design but with GM and Ford beginning to catch up
> again after the big redesign the price differential is beginning to show
> up and Chevy is really catching up again...Ford still leads for the
> lighter duty and the city folk who do just want a car with a bed or the
> bare-bones oil trucks doing metering and well monitoring, etc., where
> they're just driving from site to site...
>
> The GM ad on the Al bed is telling, though...I've seen any number of
> them with hard use that have torn just like the ads showed with the
> dropped block or toolbox.  Don't know if they've done any fixes on that
> last year or two or not, but if you're going to use it hard, better have
> a bed liner from what I've observed.
>
> If you're just going to the Borg now and then or puling the boat to the
> lake or the like, probably fine.
>
> --


I worked for a GM dealer and if you had vehicles that did not require
much work you were lucky. My first GMC High Siera, a 79 350 long bed
was basic. It had AC, AT,PB's and PS. I do not recall haveing much
work done to it but 10 mpg on the highway was staggering. And most of
my driving was in the city, much worse. I could go about 300 miles, in
town on 2, 20 gallon tanks.

My 97 Silverado had all of the above, 305 engine, plus PW, and PDL's and
extended cab, short bed.

I had the heater hose, the one with the special fitting on the end
replaced 3 times, intake manifold gasket replaced 2 times, and 2
alternators.

Not too bad but that is the way GM opperates dont improve the part next
year just keep using the same part that goes bad.

I had a 72 Vega, what can I say? Got rid of it at about 50K.

I had a 75 Olds Starfire. replaced clutch 23 times, replaced clutch
cable 1 time, replaced ignition/distributor/coil one time, replaced
heater core 1 time. And that was one of my best. got rid of it at
about 97K.

83 Cutlass Ciera, replaced engine one time, steering rack & pinion 1
time, heater core 1 time. Got rid of it at about 49K.

I mentioned the 2 GM trucks.

Tried VW 2 times and got rid of both, one had 17K the other had about 46K

After that I went Japanese.

89 Acura Integra, 1 Heater Core and only Maintenance
First vehicle to go well past 100K.

87 Isuzu Trooper, Only maintenance.

04 Accord. Only maintenance.

07 Tundra, Maintenance and a brake light switch and water pump while
still under warranty. Recently the serpentine belt and belt tensioner.

202 Camry SE V6. First car ever that I never had any warranty work
done. Only maintenance.

IMHO Ford is still doing well but the new RAM is out selling the NEW
Silverado and the new Silverado has not done much different with the
recent rebuild except finally centering the steering wheel with the
drivers seat and now offer a 4 cyl engine.

GM seems to be copying Toyota's philosophy, don't make any changes that
might appeal to the majority. The interiors of their NEW trucks still suck.

You may have the podium. ;~)

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 16:58:43 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:45:05 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:09:11 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>> >> >> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>> >> >> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>> >> >> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>> >> >> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gays milage
>> >> >> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>> >> >> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>> >> >> cold heated seats.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>> >> >>
>> >> >+
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>> >> >big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>> >> >realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>> >> >mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>> >> >great!
>> >> >
>> >> >I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>> >> >would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>> >> >be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>> >> >am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>> >> >1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>> >> >in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>> >> >vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>> >> >the Ranger.
>> >>
>> >> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>> >> Length?
>> >
>> >I can in my Honda Odyssey. I can carry 10' foot boards too, with the
>> >tailgate closed. ;-)
>>
>> What about 12' boards?
>
>If I tie the rear hatch down, yes. BTDT
>
>Heck, I can fit bigger wood in my Ody than in my trailer. (5 X 8 enclosed)
>
>For 16' boards, I've done this.
>
>http://i.imgur.com/3ICIwpl.jpg

I was considering a 32' ladder but couldn't figure out how to get it
home. SWMBO pitched a fit, though, and we're hiring someone to do
that work. I think I'm going to be limited to 20' from now on. ...And
she isn't happy about that. Something about a fractured pelvis, bypass
surgery, a pacemaker, and blood thinners. Narrow minded people!

On 6/3/2019 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:59:57 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 6/2/2019 6:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:02:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/1/2019 9:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 18:50:27 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.
>>>>>
>>>>> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unless you want those features. My next truck, my 4th, will have most
>>>> every option.
>>>
>>> Wasn't my point. My point was that you can't pile every wizbang on
>>> one vehicle and compare it to another vehicle that's stripped. Compare
>>> apples with apples. The difference between a Ranger and a SIMILARLY
>>> EQUIPPED F150 is not all that large.
>>>
>>
>> Gotcha. Except for width and gas mileage the Ranger, Colorado, Canyon,
>> Tacoma, and Frontier similarly equipped as their big brothers are close
>> in price.
>
> Exactly. It was my understanding that this is why Ford dropped the
> Ranger in the first place. They couldn't sell it for enough less than
> the F150 and still make money. Perhaps they figured out that people
> really wanted the smaller footprint (and willing to pay for it) and
> they were leaving that market open to the competition.
>
> P.S. I thought they should have called it the F100, and done a retro
> job on it. They did a great job on the Mustang (but missed the boat
> completely with the T-Bird).
>
> P.S.S. I bet GM would make a killing on a new blinged out El Camino.
>

When I was shopping trucks in 07 it did not make much sense to go the
smaller vehicles over the large. Not that much price difference and
seriously, 1~2 MPG better than the big boys. Mileage is better today
with the smaller ones.

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:45:05 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:09:11 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
> >> >> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
> >> >> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
> >> >> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
> >> >> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gays milage
> >> >> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
> >> >> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
> >> >> cold heated seats.
> >> >>
> >> >> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
> >> >>
> >> >+
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
> >> >big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
> >> >realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
> >> >mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
> >> >great!
> >> >
> >> >I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
> >> >would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
> >> >be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
> >> >am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
> >> >1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
> >> >in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
> >> >vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
> >> >the Ranger.
> >>
> >> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
> >> Length?
> >
> >I can in my Honda Odyssey. I can carry 10' foot boards too, with the
> >tailgate closed. ;-)
>
> What about 12' boards?

If I tie the rear hatch down, yes. BTDT

Heck, I can fit bigger wood in my Ody than in my trailer. (5 X 8 enclosed)

For 16' boards, I've done this.

http://i.imgur.com/3ICIwpl.jpg

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:59:57 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/2/2019 6:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:02:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/1/2019 9:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 18:50:27 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.
>>>>
>>>> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Unless you want those features. My next truck, my 4th, will have most
>>> every option.
>>
>> Wasn't my point. My point was that you can't pile every wizbang on
>> one vehicle and compare it to another vehicle that's stripped. Compare
>> apples with apples. The difference between a Ranger and a SIMILARLY
>> EQUIPPED F150 is not all that large.
>>
>
>Gotcha. Except for width and gas mileage the Ranger, Colorado, Canyon,
>Tacoma, and Frontier similarly equipped as their big brothers are close
>in price.

Exactly. It was my understanding that this is why Ford dropped the
Ranger in the first place. They couldn't sell it for enough less than
the F150 and still make money. Perhaps they figured out that people
really wanted the smaller footprint (and willing to pay for it) and
they were leaving that market open to the competition.

P.S. I thought they should have called it the F100, and done a retro
job on it. They did a great job on the Mustang (but missed the boat
completely with the T-Bird).

P.S.S. I bet GM would make a killing on a new blinged out El Camino.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 10:33:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/1/2019 10:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>
>>>> Probably gas mileage.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>
>>>
>>> $15,000 price difference also.
>>
>> More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>> much more than paint for any truck.
>>
> Many of the fully loaded trucks never carry anything in the bed
>heavier than the owner's alter ego.

Short-bed four door trucks seem to be the new luxury sedans. Put a
locking cover over the bed and you've even got a trunk.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 20:42:24 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:17:56 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:41:44 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> +
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>>> great!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>>> Length?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes!
>>>
>>>I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>>>be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>>>the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>>>
>>>>Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>>>are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>>>supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>>>12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>>>plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>>>
>>>OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>>>
>>>I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>>>offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>>>past the end of my tail gate.
>>
>> I just have them deliver
>
>Figures. So you're one of those who drives bling.

Aw you can't afford to treat yourself to something nice.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:21:34 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 21:44:37 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 22:26:23 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>
>>>>>Probably gas mileage.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>$15,000 price difference also.
>>>
>>>More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>>>much more than paint for any truck.
>>
>>An F 150 Platnium edition 55K, my ranger 40K. I do not know about your
>>math but I know what I researched as to prices.
>
>Good grief! The "Platinum edition" is "silly money on not much more
>than paint". Are you really that dumb?

Ah yes the insulting is your go to move, you are regressing into a
petulant child.

On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 11:57:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/4/2019 7:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 18:01:12 -0400, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:39:24 -0700, Bob La Londe <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/31/2019 3:18 PM, Markem wrote:> I like it, things I notice first it
>>>> is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>
>>>> I looked at it. I even considered waiting until it came out, but its
>>>> not the Ranger I would want. I would like to have a real compact pickup
>>>> like the old Ranger, S-10, Sonoma, B2000, etc with an optional fuel
>>>> injected V6. I just didn't want another full size pickup truck. I
>>>> already have a Duramax Diesel Silverado 2500HD for that.
>>>
>>> Basically what they did is brought out a new Explorer Sport-trac and
>>> called it a Ranger - - -
>>
>> Makes sense. Wasn't the Explorer built on a Ranger chassis?
>>
>> That does give me a good idea of what it is. Thanks.
>>
>
>Early Explorers were Ford Pickups.
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/autohistorian/4142588001/sizes/o/
Early Rangers were ALSO full-sized Foed Pickups.

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 10:32:12 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 16:58:43 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:45:05 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:09:11 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
> >> >> >> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
> >> >> >> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
> >> >> >> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
> >> >> >> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gays milage
> >> >> >> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
> >> >> >> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
> >> >> >> cold heated seats.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >+
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
> >> >> >big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
> >> >> >realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
> >> >> >mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
> >> >> >great!
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
> >> >> >would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
> >> >> >be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
> >> >> >am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
> >> >> >1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
> >> >> >in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
> >> >> >vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
> >> >> >the Ranger.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
> >> >> Length?
> >> >
> >> >I can in my Honda Odyssey. I can carry 10' foot boards too, with the
> >> >tailgate closed. ;-)
> >>
> >> What about 12' boards?
> >
> >If I tie the rear hatch down, yes. BTDT
> >
> >Heck, I can fit bigger wood in my Ody than in my trailer. (5 X 8 enclosed)
> >
> >For 16' boards, I've done this.
> >
> >http://i.imgur.com/3ICIwpl.jpg
>
> I was considering a 32' ladder but couldn't figure out how to get it
> home. SWMBO pitched a fit, though, and we're hiring someone to do
> that work. I think I'm going to be limited to 20' from now on. ...And
> she isn't happy about that. Something about a fractured pelvis, bypass
> surgery, a pacemaker, and blood thinners. Narrow minded people!

My trailer rig would have got the ladder home for you.

If your SWMBO was home, I would have used slip knots so I could drop it and speed away.

On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 21:44:37 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 22:26:23 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>
>>>>Probably gas mileage.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>
>>>
>>>$15,000 price difference also.
>>
>>More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>>much more than paint for any truck.
>
>An F 150 Platnium edition 55K, my ranger 40K. I do not know about your
>math but I know what I researched as to prices.

The Ranger only comes four door with a short bed. A blinged out
Ranger to my way of thinking makes a poor substitute for an Escalade
EXT that can be had used for the same money and is outfitted like,
well, a Cadillac. And that unlike the Ranger will actually hold a
sheet of plywood flat with the tailgate closed.

Honda calls their Ranger equivalent a "lifestyle truck". If I get a
truck I want a truck to haul stuff, not to show the onlookers that I
have a "truck lifestyle". If I want to impress the onlookers with my
vehicle I'll go for a Tesla or a Corvette, not a cheap undersized
truck.

On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 16:16:23 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>[email protected] writes:
>>On Fri, 31 May 2019 22:51:51 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>
>>>So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>
>>It was my understanding that the reason they dropped the Ranger (I had
>>an '01) was that they cost almost as much as an F150 to make but they
>>could only get 75% of the price - no profit. It was surprising,
>>though I welcomed it back but if it's the same size, I'll take the
>>F150. Don't see the point.
>>
>>BTW, my '01 fell apart in '13. Its frame rotted out where the leafs
>>connected and the springs were resting on the body. Scary. I bought
>>an F150 the next day. ;-) It would cost me almost double the $$ to
>>replace it now. :-(
>
>My (former) '00 Ranger is still going strong (gave it to my nephew back in 2016 with 130k
>miles on the clock).

Vermont salt did mine in. They hadn't seen anything like it in the
shop here (Georgia).

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 16:35:04 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/2/2019 3:30 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:48:51 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/1/2019 2:30 PM, dpb wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/2019 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the report.  I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look
>>>>> pretty big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit
>>>>> inside and realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench
>>>>> seat.  The mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison.    Gas
>>>>> mileage sounds great!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall.  I wish Toyota
>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will
>>>>> not be as reliable or trouble free.  None of my previous GM pickups
>>>>> were.  I am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra.  Right
>>>>> now the New 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or
>>>>> Platinum are in my sites.  We want the long trip comfort that these
>>>>> particular vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking
>>>>> strongly at the Ranger.
>>>>
>>>> The plethora of cars disguised as trucks is phenomenal any more...but
>>>> you have to search really, really hard unless you're content with
>>>> regular cab or the extended cab to find anything with long bed--and
>>>> afaict there is none manufactured in 1/2T that is 4D w/ long bed--has to
>>>> be 3/4T (which is ok, but don't really need the weight capacity so much
>>>> any more as have moved fuel transfer tanks to trailers for the diesel).
>>>> But a shortbed is essentially useless for farm; can't even lay a post in
>>>> the bed of a lot of 'em and shut the tailgate so can go somewhere at
>>>> speed and not worry about losing half along the way.  :(
>>>>
>>>> So far I've just kept the old 2D because don't need the second seat
>>>> often, but when do, the crammed leg room just wouldn't work well since
>>>> almost always when that is would be for longer trips to the NM ground
>>>> instead of just local.  So, so far have always ended up w/ multiple
>>>> vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> As far as GM, everybody's experience is different, but we've had nothing
>>>> but Chevy's since 1928 and I can't think of but one of the lot in the
>>>> mid '70s that wasn't as reliable as could ask for...I don't recall ever
>>>> doing any major work on any of them; the one was in the era of the sorry
>>>> sheet metal and rounded fenders that caught all the manure and ensilage
>>>> and so rotted out in a few years (like Fords typically did almost
>>>> universally in the 50s/60s/70s until they finally began to improve
>>>> bodies some).
>>>>
>>>> Ram made huge inroads out here in farm/oil patch country when first
>>>> introduced the new design but with GM and Ford beginning to catch up
>>>> again after the big redesign the price differential is beginning to show
>>>> up and Chevy is really catching up again...Ford still leads for the
>>>> lighter duty and the city folk who do just want a car with a bed or the
>>>> bare-bones oil trucks doing metering and well monitoring, etc., where
>>>> they're just driving from site to site...
>>>>
>>>> The GM ad on the Al bed is telling, though...I've seen any number of
>>>> them with hard use that have torn just like the ads showed with the
>>>> dropped block or toolbox.  Don't know if they've done any fixes on that
>>>> last year or two or not, but if you're going to use it hard, better have
>>>> a bed liner from what I've observed.
>>>>
>>>> If you're just going to the Borg now and then or puling the boat to the
>>>> lake or the like, probably fine.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> I worked for a GM dealer and if you had vehicles that did not require
>>> much work you were lucky.
>>
>>
>> Garage Man's Companion That's what GMC stands for. Kept bread on the
>> table of many a mechanic - and the new pnes are not much if any better
>> than the older ones. From the late seventies on they have declined
>> significantly in build quality - anf the "financial engineers" have
>> gotten more input then the "automotive engineers"
>
>Preaching to the choir brother.
>
>
>>
>>> My first GMC High Siera, a 79 350 long bed
>>> was basic. It had AC, AT,PB's and PS. I do not recall haveing much
>>> work done to it but 10 mpg on the highway was staggering. And most of
>>> my driving was in the city, much worse. I could go about 300 miles, in
>>> town on 2, 20 gallon tanks.
>>>
>>> My 97 Silverado had all of the above, 305 engine, plus PW, and PDL's and
>>> extended cab, short bed.
>> Did you own it long enough for the cam to go flat? pr the valve
>> guides to waller out?
>>>
>>> I had the heater hose, the one with the special fitting on the end
>>> replaced 3 times, intake manifold gasket replaced 2 times, and 2
>>> alternators.
>> You got away lucky
>>>
>>> Not too bad but that is the way GM opperates dont improve the part next
>>> year just keep using the same part that goes bad.
>>>
>>> I had a 72 Vega, what can I say? Got rid of it at about 50K.
>> About 20K too late? The fact that GM managed to sell the second Vega
>> to many owners says a lot about "blind brand Loyalty"
>>>
>>> I had a 75 Olds Starfire. replaced clutch 23 times, replaced clutch
>>> cable 1 time, replaced ignition/distributor/coil one time, replaced
>>> heater core 1 time. And that was one of my best. got rid of it at
>>> about 97K.
>> Fancied up Chevy Monza - which was a recycled Vega.
>>>
>>> 83 Cutlass Ciera, replaced engine one time, steering rack & pinion 1
>>> time, heater core 1 time. Got rid of it at about 49K.
>>>
>> Mainstream GM product - par for the course. Basically a fancied up
>> X-car -like the Citation. The joke at the time was "how can the call
>> it an ex-car when it never was a car?" It was a bold move by GM into
>> the front wheel drive "common man's car" - but after 3 years of
>> production of the "X" the "A" didn't fix any of the problems.
>
>Well actually the Cutlass Ciera was an A Body. The full sized Cutlass
>was the A body and changed to the G body when the Cutlass Ciera came
>out. IDIOTS!!!! why did they not simply leave the RWD Cutlass an A
>body and call the FWD Cutlass a G body.
>Classic example of the stupidity that GM spewed.
>GM parts catalogs were hard enough to read as it was but that just
>complicated matters worse.
>
>
>>
>> Then there was the "T" - the Chevette "world car". The joke was GM
>> only made one mistake on the chevette - it needed dual exhaust -
>> because it's hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle.-
>> Nickname? The "shovette"
>>> I mentioned the 2 GM trucks.
>>>
>>> Tried VW 2 times and got rid of both, one had 17K the other had about 46K
>>>
>>> After that I went Japanese.
>>>
>>> 89 Acura Integra, 1 Heater Core and only Maintenance
>>> First vehicle to go well past 100K.
>>
>> I don't think I've sold a vehicle with less than 100000 miles
>> (160,000km)
>>>
>>> 87 Isuzu Trooper, Only maintenance.
>>>
>>> 04 Accord. Only maintenance.
>>>
>>> 07 Tundra, Maintenance and a brake light switch and water pump while
>>> still under warranty. Recently the serpentine belt and belt tensioner.
>>>
>>> 202 Camry SE V6. First car ever that I never had any warranty work
>>> done. Only maintenance.
>>>
>>> IMHO Ford is still doing well but the new RAM is out selling the NEW
>>> Silverado and the new Silverado has not done much different with the
>>> recent rebuild except finally centering the steering wheel with the
>>> drivers seat and now offer a 4 cyl engine.
>>
>> call that an improvement? Their 5 cyl would likely have been better.
>
>I don't call that improvement but they do, I think.
>
>
>>>
>>> GM seems to be copying Toyota's philosophy, don't make any changes that
>>> might appeal to the majority. The interiors of their NEW trucks still suck.
>>
>> But at least the rest of the Toyota has something going for it.
>
>Absolutely, GM does not realize that they have to build in quality.
>
>
>>>
>>> You may have the podium. ;~)
>> And the 6.0 / 6.2 engines are timebombs. The 5.3 wasn't much better
>> with cyl heads that may as well have been made of glass for as often
>> and easily as they cracked. My brother hates them, but up around
>> Huntsville Ont they are pretty common and they pay the bills.
>>
>
>
>
>> If you can keet the body on them and don't twist the frame to a
>> pretzel the cummins Ram is pretty much bulletproof - and the hemiis
>> not far behind. They had some front end problems on the 4X4 2500 and
>> 3500 but the aftermarket solved that very effectively (death wobble
>> issues)
>>
>
>I suspect the new 1500 Rams have addressed the death wobble. I never
>was a Chrysler product enthusiast but now that Ram is it's own division
>I suspect things will change with their quality and sales.

1500 didn't have the problem to the extent the bigger ones did -
particularly the 4X4
>
>
>While I don't need 4WD I will likely get it for emergencies. I
>understand that you pretty much get that investment back when selling
>the vehicle.

On 6/2/2019 5:04 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>Snip


>
> 1500 didn't have the problem to the extent the bigger ones did -
> particularly the 4X4

Well I am probably going with 4x4 but I will assume the older 2500 and
up 4x4 were the ones with the wobble problem.

On 6/2/2019 6:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>
>>>> +
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>> great!
>>>>
>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>> the Ranger.
>>>
>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>> Length?
>>>
>>
>> Yes!
>
> I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
> be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
> the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>
>> Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>> are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>> supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>> 12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>> plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>
> OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.

Sorry, I thought you ware talking about a F150 with the 5.5' bed.
So no I do not believe a Ranger will let you haul plywood between the
wheel wells, BUT you can put the plywood on top of the wheel wells with
room to spare. Most pickups also allow you to add 2x material in
indentations as spacers/shelves that are the same height as the wheel wells.

>
> I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
> offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
> past the end of my tail gate.
>

On 6/5/2019 2:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 11:57:18 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/2019 7:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 18:01:12 -0400, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:39:24 -0700, Bob La Londe <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/31/2019 3:18 PM, Markem wrote:> I like it, things I notice first it
>>>>> is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>
>>>>> I looked at it. I even considered waiting until it came out, but its
>>>>> not the Ranger I would want. I would like to have a real compact pickup
>>>>> like the old Ranger, S-10, Sonoma, B2000, etc with an optional fuel
>>>>> injected V6. I just didn't want another full size pickup truck. I
>>>>> already have a Duramax Diesel Silverado 2500HD for that.
>>>>
>>>> Basically what they did is brought out a new Explorer Sport-trac and
>>>> called it a Ranger - - -
>>>
>>> Makes sense. Wasn't the Explorer built on a Ranger chassis?
>>>
>>> That does give me a good idea of what it is. Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> Early Explorers were Ford Pickups.
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/autohistorian/4142588001/sizes/o/
> Early Rangers were ALSO full-sized Foed Pickups.
>
In 1969, I don't think there was anything but a full sized pickup from
ford. FWIW the Ranger was the full sized Ford too.

On 6/1/2019 9:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 18:50:27 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>
>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.
>>
>> Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.
>
> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>


Unless you want those features. My next truck, my 4th, will have most
every option.

On 6/2/2019 9:50 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 10:33:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/1/2019 10:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably gas mileage.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> $15,000 price difference also.
>>>
>>> More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>>> much more than paint for any truck.
>>>
>> Many of the fully loaded trucks never carry anything in the bed
>> heavier than the owner's alter ego.
>
> Short-bed four door trucks seem to be the new luxury sedans.

How observant, and will out last more cheaply built cars.


Put a
> locking cover over the bed and you've even got a trunk.
>


As is "EVERY" other truck, regardless of doors or size.

On 6/1/2019 10:24 PM, Markem wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 23:04:02 -0400, J. Clarke
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 21:44:37 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 22:26:23 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably gas mileage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> $15,000 price difference also.
>>>>
>>>> More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>>>> much more than paint for any truck.
>>>
>>> An F 150 Platnium edition 55K, my ranger 40K. I do not know about your
>>> math but I know what I researched as to prices.
>>
>> The Ranger only comes four door with a short bed. A blinged out
>> Ranger to my way of thinking makes a poor substitute for an Escalade
>> EXT that can be had used for the same money and is outfitted like,
>> well, a Cadillac. And that unlike the Ranger will actually hold a
>> sheet of plywood flat with the tailgate closed.
>>
>> Honda calls their Ranger equivalent a "lifestyle truck". If I get a
>> truck I want a truck to haul stuff, not to show the onlookers that I
>> have a "truck lifestyle". If I want to impress the onlookers with my
>> vehicle I'll go for a Tesla or a Corvette, not a cheap undersized
>> truck.
>
> Well I am glad you can tell me how to spend my money, I bought what I
> wanted, it is paid for no loan. My house is paid for, if I wanted a
> Tesla or a vette I could buy that with out a loan. So your opinion is
> yours and I do not care as to what you thoughts are as to what I
> should have done.
>


Consider the source.

Escalade EXT = POS, there is a reason they are soooooo cheap to buy used.

Tesla = Can't go all day cross country with out several hours of rest at
a "Spa"

On 6/4/2019 7:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jun 2019 18:01:12 -0400, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:39:24 -0700, Bob La Londe <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/31/2019 3:18 PM, Markem wrote:> I like it, things I notice first it
>>> is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>
>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>
>>> I looked at it. I even considered waiting until it came out, but its
>>> not the Ranger I would want. I would like to have a real compact pickup
>>> like the old Ranger, S-10, Sonoma, B2000, etc with an optional fuel
>>> injected V6. I just didn't want another full size pickup truck. I
>>> already have a Duramax Diesel Silverado 2500HD for that.
>>
>> Basically what they did is brought out a new Explorer Sport-trac and
>> called it a Ranger - - -
>
> Makes sense. Wasn't the Explorer built on a Ranger chassis?
>
> That does give me a good idea of what it is. Thanks.
>

Early Explorers were Ford Pickups.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/autohistorian/4142588001/sizes/o/

On 6/1/2019 10:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>
>>> Probably gas mileage.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>
>>
>> $15,000 price difference also.
>
> More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
> much more than paint for any truck.
>
Many of the fully loaded trucks never carry anything in the bed
heavier than the owner's alter ego.

On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>
> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>

Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.

On 6/4/2019 7:08 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 14:19:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 6/3/2019 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:59:57 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/2/2019 6:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:02:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/1/2019 9:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 18:50:27 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless you want those features. My next truck, my 4th, will have most
>>>>>> every option.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wasn't my point. My point was that you can't pile every wizbang on
>>>>> one vehicle and compare it to another vehicle that's stripped. Compare
>>>>> apples with apples. The difference between a Ranger and a SIMILARLY
>>>>> EQUIPPED F150 is not all that large.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gotcha. Except for width and gas mileage the Ranger, Colorado, Canyon,
>>>> Tacoma, and Frontier similarly equipped as their big brothers are close
>>>> in price.
>>>
>>> Exactly. It was my understanding that this is why Ford dropped the
>>> Ranger in the first place. They couldn't sell it for enough less than
>>> the F150 and still make money. Perhaps they figured out that people
>>> really wanted the smaller footprint (and willing to pay for it) and
>>> they were leaving that market open to the competition.
>>>
>>> P.S. I thought they should have called it the F100, and done a retro
>>> job on it. They did a great job on the Mustang (but missed the boat
>>> completely with the T-Bird).
>>>
>>> P.S.S. I bet GM would make a killing on a new blinged out El Camino.
>>>
>>
>> When I was shopping trucks in 07 it did not make much sense to go the
>> smaller vehicles over the large. Not that much price difference and
>> seriously, 1~2 MPG better than the big boys. Mileage is better today
>> with the smaller ones.
>
> The big ones are getting better too. The difference doesn't matter to
> me much. I appreciate the larger vehicle. Even the extended cab can
> seat four adults comfortably. The back seat of a Mustang is useless,
> so if we have anyone visiting, we drive the truck.
>

Well the latest Tundra is not. LOL I think the 19's are getting worse
than I get. I at least average 16 in town and 19 ish on the road with
the 5.7. My Tundra has the extended cab now, SHMBO has indicated a
"Crew Cab" will be on the next vehicle since the passengers will be our
age. ;~)
And like you, the truck will be the one we use when going with friends
over the Camry.

On 6/1/2019 3:47 AM, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 31 May 2019 21:36:53 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 31 May 2019 22:51:51 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>
>>>> So, why not just get an F150.   I'm not a fan of the new Ranger;
>>>> it's way
>>>> too big.  Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>
>>> It was my understanding that the reason they dropped the Ranger (I had
>>> an '01) was that they cost almost as much as an F150 to make but they
>>> could only get 75% of the price - no profit.  It was surprising,
>>> though I welcomed it back but if it's the same size, I'll take the
>>> F150.  Don't see the point.
>>>
>>> BTW, my '01 fell apart in '13.  Its frame rotted out where the leafs
>>> connected and the springs were resting on the body.  Scary.  I bought
>>> an F150 the next day.  ;-)  It would cost me almost double the $$ to
>>> replace it now.  :-(
>>>
>>
>> My first brand new vehicle was a black 1980 F100.  $ 5700.
>>   6 cyl.  3 on-the-tree  red vinyl interior
>> It was so bare-bones - it didn't come with a day-night
>>   rearview mirror !!
>
>  Yours came with a rearview mirror??     ; )

So way back when,,,, I worked at an Oldsmobile dealership. I was in the
back end of the business. My sister, 12 years older then me, wanted a
new car. I went with her to our fleet salesman and we worked out the
details. Going through the items to add he came to the option of adding
a right door mirror.
My sister said NO, I don't use rear view mirrors!!!

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 11:05:48 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
> > I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
> > Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
> > loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
> > from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
> > is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
> > 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
> > cold heated seats.
> >
> > Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
> >
> +
>
> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
> great!
>
> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
> the Ranger.

On my recent trip out west I rented a 2018 Toyota 4Runner in Portland. $179
for 4.5 days. (The next time you rent, check out autoslash.com)

We spent a day on the Oregon Coast, a day driving the scenic by-pass along
the Columbia Rover Gorge and a day in the city. Bottom line, a combination
of highway driving and twisty-turny roads, up and down hills, crowded city
streets, etc. About 600 miles total.

SWMBO and I were amazed at how well the truck handled across all those
different conditions. Even though it was the lowest trim level, the seats
were extremely comfortable, the site-lines were great (nice and high)
parking was easy. It's actually smaller than my daily driver (Honda Odyssey)
but it seemed so much bigger, mainly because of the height. Almost 6"
more ground clearance than my Ody. My only complaint is that it really
needed running boards. SWMBO and I are short, so we were literally *climbing*
in and out of the truck.

As far as "long trip comfort", the 4Runner seemed to meet that criteria.
Hauling-wise, I think my Ody could fit more since there's more vehicle
behind the driver and the seat come out. 4 x 8 sheet goods fit in my Ody,
they wouldn't fit in the 4Runner. Yeah, I know it's not a pick-up, but it's
a nice truck.

On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:09:11 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
> >On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
> >> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
> >> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
> >> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
> >> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
> >> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
> >> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
> >> cold heated seats.
> >>
> >> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
> >>
> >+
> >
> >Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
> >big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
> >realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
> >mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
> >great!
> >
> >I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
> >would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
> >be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
> >am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
> >1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
> >in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
> >vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
> >the Ranger.
>
> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
> Length?

I can in my Honda Odyssey. I can carry 10' foot boards too, with the
tailgate closed. ;-)

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 01:25:45 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>
>Since you brought it up, don't All trucks made today have a Lot
>more bling than they had 40 years ago? 40 years ago, you could
>get a truck for less than a car, right? Excuse me if I'm
>misusing the term bling here, I expect you know what I mean
>(suspension, etc.).

I guess you are.

Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.

So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:41:44 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>
>>>> +
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>> great!
>>>>
>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>> the Ranger.
>>>
>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>> Length?
>>>
>>
>>Yes!
>
>I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>
>>Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>
>OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>
>I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>past the end of my tail gate.

I just have them deliver

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:15:49 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:21:34 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 21:44:37 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 22:26:23 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Probably gas mileage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>$15,000 price difference also.
>>>>
>>>>More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>>>>much more than paint for any truck.
>>>
>>>An F 150 Platnium edition 55K, my ranger 40K. I do not know about your
>>>math but I know what I researched as to prices.
>>
>>Good grief! The "Platinum edition" is "silly money on not much more
>>than paint". Are you really that dumb?
>
>Ah yes the insulting is your go to move, you are regressing into a
>petulant child.

No, though perhaps stating the obvious.

On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 09:48:03 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>
>>>>
>>>> BTW, my '01 fell apart in '13. Its frame rotted out where the leafs
>>>> connected and the springs were resting on the body. Scary. I bought
>>>> an F150 the next day. ;-) It would cost me almost double the $$ to
>>>> replace it now. :-(
>>>>
>>>
>>> My first brand new vehicle was a black 1980 F100. $ 5700.
>>> 6 cyl. 3 on-the-tree red vinyl interior
>>> It was so bare-bones - it didn't come with a day-night
>>> rearview mirror !!
>>> I had to go buy one at the wreckers.
>>> I drove it 13 - 14 years 300 k + km motor, trans, clutch still OK
>>> and a young guy bought it to remove the rusted box
>>> and put on a flat-bed.
>>> John T.
>>>
>>
>> Yours came with a rearview mirror?? ; )
>>
>
> I picked up a couple young hitch-hikers one day,
> 15 year old guys heading to the beach, and one of them
>was forced to ask, after seeing me shift the 3-on-the-tree
> " How do you know where the gears are ? "
> ... not stamped into the knob like the 4-on-the-floor cars
>that he'd seen before ... :-)

I drove a car with a three-on-the-tree for my road test when I was 16.
During the test, I had to park on a hill (put the car in reverse, turn
wheel into curb which depended on direction, etc.). Everything went
right but I shifted into second instead of reverse. I quickly
thought, "he'll never notice that". He didn't. ;-)

> Even for 1980 it was a very rare bare-bones vehicle -
>I don't think that it even had PS PB . but the advertised price
>in large bold type in the newspaper advert. would attract attention
>and get people into the showroom to get up-sold.
> John T.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 16:12:44 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/2/2019 6:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>
>>>>> +
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>> great!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>
>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>> Length?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes!
>>
>> I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>> be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>> the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>>
>>> Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>> are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>> supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>> 12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>> plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>>
>> OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>
>Sorry, I thought you ware talking about a F150 with the 5.5' bed.
>So no I do not believe a Ranger will let you haul plywood between the
>wheel wells, BUT you can put the plywood on top of the wheel wells with
>room to spare. Most pickups also allow you to add 2x material in
>indentations as spacers/shelves that are the same height as the wheel wells.
>
>>
>> I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>> offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>> past the end of my tail gate.
>>
My ranger worksthat way too. A paie of 2X6 slats in the liner pockets
and a 4X8 almost reaches the end of the (down) tailgate. Gotta love
the 7 foot box.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:39:24 -0700, Bob La Londe <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 5/31/2019 3:18 PM, Markem wrote:> I like it, things I notice first it
>is about the same size as a F 150.
> > Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
> > loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
> > from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
> > is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
> > 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
> > cold heated seats.
> >
> > Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>
>I looked at it. I even considered waiting until it came out, but its
>not the Ranger I would want. I would like to have a real compact pickup
>like the old Ranger, S-10, Sonoma, B2000, etc with an optional fuel
>injected V6. I just didn't want another full size pickup truck. I
>already have a Duramax Diesel Silverado 2500HD for that.

Basically what they did is brought out a new Explorer Sport-trac and
called it a Ranger - - -
>
>I'ld like to see somebody come back with the no frills compact pickup
>truck for the guy just starting out.
>
>My first new service truck was a GMC Sonoma, followed by a Chevy S-10.
>They were awesome little work trucks and I didn't mind handing them over
>to a technician who wasn't going to take care of them like I would.
>Yeah I had lots of bigger fanciers trucks after that, but its pretty
>hard to beat a true no frills compact pickup for a light work truck for
>technicians. I know. I know. Everybody wants to sell vans for that
>now. Bah humbug. Van's are for cheerleaders.

My dad had GM Handi-vans, Dodge Tradesmans,Dodge D100, Chevy c10 and
F100 /F150 pickups, the '75 Fargo, a GMC Cube-van and a Toyota Hilux
Heavy Half.

That little Heavy Half Yota handled everything he threw at it - was
seldom under a ton of payload - with a plywood shed box on it and
several rolls of electrical cable plus his tools. He took out ONE
wheel bearing inthe 6 years he pounded the crap out of it - nothing
else. The guys said the way that TOY Yota stood up to "Swervin'
Mervin" they'd hate to see what a REAL Yota would do. He died before
the big Tundra hit the scene.
>
>When I retired from contracting I traded my 3/4 utility truck in on a
>Jeep JK instead.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 16:12:44 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/2/2019 6:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>
>>>>> +
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>> great!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>
>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>> Length?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes!
>>
>> I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>> be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>> the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>>
>>> Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>> are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>> supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>> 12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>> plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>>
>> OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>
>Sorry, I thought you ware talking about a F150 with the 5.5' bed.
>So no I do not believe a Ranger will let you haul plywood between the
>wheel wells, BUT you can put the plywood on top of the wheel wells with
>room to spare. Most pickups also allow you to add 2x material in
>indentations as spacers/shelves that are the same height as the wheel wells.

Sorry that I wasn't clear. My '01 Ranger didn't even have the
indentations. They would have been greatly appreciated. I still like
putting it between the wells.

>>
>> I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>> offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>> past the end of my tail gate.
>>

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 21:00:08 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 21:25:15 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:49:57 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 20:42:24 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:17:56 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:41:44 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>>>>>> great!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>>>>>> Length?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>>>>>>be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>>>>>>the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>>>>>>are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>>>>>>supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>>>>>>12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>>>>>>plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>>>>>>offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>>>>>>past the end of my tail gate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just have them deliver
>>>>
>>>>Figures. So you're one of those who drives bling.
>>>
>>>Aw you can't afford to treat yourself to something nice.
>>
>>Nope. But my wife drives a '19 Mustang Convertible.
>>
>>Yes, our house is paid for too. You really don't have to come here to
>>brag. No one cares. Really.
>>
>>You are really amazing. Rail against those who buy expensive trucks
>>who don't use them, then do exactly the same thing yourself. Truly
>>sad.
>
>So you can show me where I railed against those who buy expensive
>trucks? Because you can't because I did not.

Truly amazing.

>Your memory does not serve you well.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 01:25:45 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>
>Since you brought it up, don't All trucks made today have a Lot
>more bling than they had 40 years ago? 40 years ago, you could
>get a truck for less than a car, right? Excuse me if I'm
>misusing the term bling here, I expect you know what I mean
>(suspension, etc.).
I remember when the passenger side visor was an option, there was no
back bumper, chrome bumpers and grille were an option, standard mirror
was a 3 1/2 inch round mirror clamped to the top front corner of the
driver's door, a spare tire was optional. as was a second horn, the
door panels were cardboard, as was the headliner. No such thing as
power steering or brakes unless the truck was over 1 ton, where a
hydrevac brake system was generally standard, and the dang thing RODE
like a TRUCK, HANDLED like a TRUCK, and SOUNDED like a truck.
When vans first came out the passenger seat was an option too.

On 6/1/2019 10:04 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 21:44:37 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 22:26:23 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably gas mileage.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> $15,000 price difference also.
>>>
>>> More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>>> much more than paint for any truck.
>>
>> An F 150 Platnium edition 55K, my ranger 40K. I do not know about your
>> math but I know what I researched as to prices.
>
> The Ranger only comes four door with a short bed. A blinged out
> Ranger to my way of thinking makes a poor substitute for an Escalade
> EXT that can be had used for the same money and is outfitted like,
> well, a Cadillac. And that unlike the Ranger will actually hold a
> sheet of plywood flat with the tailgate closed.
>
> Honda calls their Ranger equivalent a "lifestyle truck". If I get a
> truck I want a truck to haul stuff, not to show the onlookers that I
> have a "truck lifestyle". If I want to impress the onlookers with my
> vehicle I'll go for a Tesla or a Corvette, not a cheap undersized
> truck.
>
An now we have heard from the truck expert.

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>
>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>
>
>Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.

Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 31 May 2019 21:36:53 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 31 May 2019 22:51:51 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>
>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>
>> It was my understanding that the reason they dropped the Ranger (I had
>> an '01) was that they cost almost as much as an F150 to make but they
>> could only get 75% of the price - no profit. It was surprising,
>> though I welcomed it back but if it's the same size, I'll take the
>> F150. Don't see the point.
>>
>> BTW, my '01 fell apart in '13. Its frame rotted out where the leafs
>> connected and the springs were resting on the body. Scary. I bought
>> an F150 the next day. ;-) It would cost me almost double the $$ to
>> replace it now. :-(
>>
>
> My first brand new vehicle was a black 1980 F100. $ 5700.
> 6 cyl. 3 on-the-tree red vinyl interior
> It was so bare-bones - it didn't come with a day-night
> rearview mirror !!

Yours came with a rearview mirror?? ; )



I had to go buy one at the wreckers.
> I drove it 13 - 14 years 300 k + km motor, trans, clutch still OK
> and a young guy bought it to remove the rusted box
> and put on a flat-bed.
> John T.
>

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 10:33:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/1/2019 10:26 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:59:18 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>
>>>> Probably gas mileage.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>
>>>
>>> $15,000 price difference also.
>>
>> More like $4,000, buy-in difference. You can spend silly money on not
>> much more than paint for any truck.
>>
> Many of the fully loaded trucks never carry anything in the bed
>heavier than the owner's alter ego.

Agreed and that was my point, more or less. There isn't a $15K
difference between the two trucks. More like $4000, with another
$11,000 "ego option".

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:17:56 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:41:44 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>>On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>
>>>>> +
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>> great!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>
>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>> Length?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yes!
>>
>>I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>>be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>>the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>>
>>>Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>>are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>>supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>>12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>>plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>>
>>OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>>
>>I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>>offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>>past the end of my tail gate.
>
> I just have them deliver

Figures. So you're one of those who drives bling.

On Fri, 31 May 2019 21:36:53 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Fri, 31 May 2019 22:51:51 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
>wrote:
>
>>Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>
>>So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>
>It was my understanding that the reason they dropped the Ranger (I had
>an '01) was that they cost almost as much as an F150 to make but they
>could only get 75% of the price - no profit. It was surprising,
>though I welcomed it back but if it's the same size, I'll take the
>F150. Don't see the point.
>
>BTW, my '01 fell apart in '13. Its frame rotted out where the leafs
>connected and the springs were resting on the body. Scary. I bought
>an F150 the next day. ;-) It would cost me almost double the $$ to
>replace it now. :-(
>

My first brand new vehicle was a black 1980 F100. $ 5700.
6 cyl. 3 on-the-tree red vinyl interior
It was so bare-bones - it didn't come with a day-night
rearview mirror !! I had to go buy one at the wreckers.
I drove it 13 - 14 years 300 k + km motor, trans, clutch still OK
and a young guy bought it to remove the rusted box
and put on a flat-bed.
John T.

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:06:09 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 5/31/2019 5:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>
>Probably gas mileage.
>
>>
>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>

$15,000 price difference also.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 14:19:45 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/3/2019 5:54 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 15:59:57 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/2/2019 6:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:02:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/1/2019 9:27 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 18:50:27 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 17:49:34 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 6:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Markem <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, why not just get an F150. I'm not a fan of the new Ranger; it's way
>>>>>>>>> too big. Give me a turn of the millenium small truck ranger anyday :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well there is that matter of a $4000 price difference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Top trim to top trim, about $11,000 short.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless you want those features. My next truck, my 4th, will have most
>>>>> every option.
>>>>
>>>> Wasn't my point. My point was that you can't pile every wizbang on
>>>> one vehicle and compare it to another vehicle that's stripped. Compare
>>>> apples with apples. The difference between a Ranger and a SIMILARLY
>>>> EQUIPPED F150 is not all that large.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Gotcha. Except for width and gas mileage the Ranger, Colorado, Canyon,
>>> Tacoma, and Frontier similarly equipped as their big brothers are close
>>> in price.
>>
>> Exactly. It was my understanding that this is why Ford dropped the
>> Ranger in the first place. They couldn't sell it for enough less than
>> the F150 and still make money. Perhaps they figured out that people
>> really wanted the smaller footprint (and willing to pay for it) and
>> they were leaving that market open to the competition.
>>
>> P.S. I thought they should have called it the F100, and done a retro
>> job on it. They did a great job on the Mustang (but missed the boat
>> completely with the T-Bird).
>>
>> P.S.S. I bet GM would make a killing on a new blinged out El Camino.
>>
>
>When I was shopping trucks in 07 it did not make much sense to go the
>smaller vehicles over the large. Not that much price difference and
>seriously, 1~2 MPG better than the big boys. Mileage is better today
>with the smaller ones.

The big ones are getting better too. The difference doesn't matter to
me much. I appreciate the larger vehicle. Even the extended cab can
seat four adults comfortably. The back seat of a Mustang is useless,
so if we have anyone visiting, we drive the truck.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 21:25:15 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:49:57 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 20:42:24 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:17:56 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:41:44 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>>>>> great!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>>>>> Length?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes!
>>>>>
>>>>>I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>>>>>be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>>>>>the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>>>>>are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>>>>>supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>>>>>12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>>>>>plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>>>>>
>>>>>OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>>>>>offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>>>>>past the end of my tail gate.
>>>>
>>>> I just have them deliver
>>>
>>>Figures. So you're one of those who drives bling.
>>
>>Aw you can't afford to treat yourself to something nice.
>
>Nope. But my wife drives a '19 Mustang Convertible.
>
>Yes, our house is paid for too. You really don't have to come here to
>brag. No one cares. Really.
>
>You are really amazing. Rail against those who buy expensive trucks
>who don't use them, then do exactly the same thing yourself. Truly
>sad.

So you can show me where I railed against those who buy expensive
trucks? Because you can't because I did not.

Your memory does not serve you well.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>
>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>
>>> +
>>>
>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>> great!
>>>
>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>> the Ranger.
>>
>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>> Length?
>>
>
>Yes!

I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.

>Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.

OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.

I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
past the end of my tail gate.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:49:57 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 20:42:24 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:17:56 -0500, Markem <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 19:41:44 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:17:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 6/1/2019 11:09 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>>>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>>>> great!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>>>> Length?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes!
>>>>
>>>>I asked the question to figure out the width of the Ranger. It can't
>>>>be all that much narrower than the F150 if you there is >48" between
>>>>the wheel wells. Sounds like it's about the same size.
>>>>
>>>>>Length, With the tail gate down the Sheet extends 12". The beds
>>>>>are only 12" shorter than my Tundra. As long as the lumber is mostly
>>>>>supported by the bed and open tail gate you can easily haul lumber up to
>>>>>12 feet with out much thought. Even easier if you have a sheet of
>>>>>plywood under the lumber, all but 4 feet of a 12 footer is supported.
>>>>
>>>>OK, it's like a short-bed F150? Don't like that a bit.
>>>>
>>>>I do the reverse. I put lumber under the ply to make it easier to
>>>>offload and weight down longer lumber. An 8' sheet doesn't extend
>>>>past the end of my tail gate.
>>>
>>> I just have them deliver
>>
>>Figures. So you're one of those who drives bling.
>
>Aw you can't afford to treat yourself to something nice.

Nope. But my wife drives a '19 Mustang Convertible.

Yes, our house is paid for too. You really don't have to come here to
brag. No one cares. Really.

You are really amazing. Rail against those who buy expensive trucks
who don't use them, then do exactly the same thing yourself. Truly
sad.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 17:59:36 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 6/2/2019 3:54 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 14:49:54 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/2/2019 1:48 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> You may have the podium. ;~)
>>>
>>> Used the '28 regularly until the '60s...it's what I learned to drive in.
>>> Unfortunately, while my brother and I were away at college Dad sold it
>>> to a restorer so don't still have it. :(
>>>
>>> Ones I can remember and name included '39, '48, '57, '58, '59, '79(?),
>>> '88 grain trucks from 1-1/2T to the tandem. Of course, now everything
>>> has shifted to much larger capacity and using semis rather than bobtails
>>> for serious hauling.
>>>
>>> First PU was '58 Fleetside w/ manual 4 on floor
>>
>> Other than rust problems the 58 Apache was a solid truck
>
>It had no rust when Dad traded it...of course, W KS is relatively dry
>but it ran through all the mud and lots with manure and all for 10+ years.
>
>I really do miss it, specifically...
>
>...
>
>>> ..there was on mid-70s that I recall that was just too
>>> ugly a tan/brown color that is probably reason it didn't have the heart
>>> to last. :)
>> Mid seventies saw the quality decline something awfull Neighbors 74?
>> you could watch rust away as it sat on the driveway. He got a lot of
>> highway miles on it - but it spent a lot of shop time - and at about
>> 600000 he finaly let it lie down - it had basically died long before -
>> - - Not sure what year it;s replacement was but it died at about 6
>> years or so - the engine and body both let go about the same time
>
>We never had significant mechanical issues and that one butt-ugly-brown
>one is the only one I recall that had such terrible rust issues...but, I
>also know that dad avoided any more new pickups until they changed that
>body style so the rust problems went away...that's a case where I'll
>grant GM had a problem for a while that we avoided other than getting
>bit once simply by not having another of the particular ilk.
>
>But, I remember the neighbors with all Fords that had far worse issues,
>too... :)
>
>>> Still use the '58 C60 regularly as seed tender and for cleanup work
>>> around the place. Only work ever done on it is brakes. The odometer
>>> did fail around 130K years ago so have no idea how many miles it
>>> actually has...doesn't go a long way at a time any more, but I'd have no
>>> qualms going anywhere in it this afternoon (if I changed oil first,
>>> etc., ...).
>> The end of an era -
>
>Close...I've been intending to repaint it as the paint has baked down to
>the bare metal on the hood and cab tops owing to so much time sitting in
>the wheat fields during harvest during the baking summer heat...I hauled
>a lot of loads to town in "Ol' Blue" back then and then others followed
>for 30 more years before it got demoted to second string with the tandem
>and a 40-ft Freuhoff trailer...but, it's perfect size for seed tender
>and for trash pickup around the place because it's not so tall but what
>can reach over the bed rails (w/o the high tops, anyways).
>
>...
By the "end of anera" I meant the '58/59 Apache body style was the
last of the REAL Chevy trucks. On the farm we had an old 1949 1/4
ton Stude. It would haul a ton of grain to the mill and haul back the
chop - and be in top gear before we passed the line fence. Replaced it
with a '61 Chevy half ton and the springs were bottomed at 3/4 ton -
and you werelucky to get it into third before you got to town. It was
a pretty useless excuse for a truck. When I started at the garage we
had a 68 3/4 ton heavy duty with a 292 and a 63 1/2 ton with a 232. We
has the 68 licenced for a combined GVW of 22 tons for hauling a
tri-axle trailer for hauling tractors and equipment - Blew the engine
on it in '71 - The 63 was pretty sad already in '69 and it was never
really worked hard
>
>>> Just may have been lucky, but I certainly have no complaints as a whole
>>> against GM...
>> Personall I've had a few - a '28 National sedan, a 35 Master, a '72
>> (Vauxhall) firenza, and a 95 Pontiac Trans Sport. oh - and a '57 210
>> and a 67 chevy 2 and a 61 buick Invicta that I only owned for about a
>> week each - - - The Firenza wa likey the best of the lot which is
>> not saying much. Didn't put many miles on the 28 or the 35 but the
>> TransSport nickeled and dimed me to death $50 and $100 dollars at a
>> time. Of all the vehicles I've ever owned that one irritated me the
>> most. I REALLY TRIED to like that van - - - -but it just wouldn't let
>> me. Likely more issues with that vehicle than with all 10 of my
>> Chrysler products combined. Or my 6 fords. Heck, my PEUGEOT gve me
>> less trouble.
>
>We had Chrysler products for cars early on; dad followed the salesman
>when he moved to the Buicks from the '53 New Yorker to the '60 LeSabre.
>The '64 LeSabre was the best sedan I've ever seen/had/driven other than
>Lexus or the like. I'd take a new one of them tomorrow.
>
>Bought '99 300M when moved to farm as a road car while making the
>transition to KS from TN and knew would make many trips...new, it was
>the quietest touring sedan I could find w/o spending twice the money and
>was excellent for what got it for. _TERRIBLE_ mud car on dirt roads,
>however, shifter linkage always dragging and no traction. I kept it for
>about 5 year but by then the interior dash had cracked and we had pretty
>much got resettled. Got '10 Enclave w/ AWD that has better road
>clearance that Lynda uses as the mud car when gets bad. We upgraded the
>folks' last LeSabre at 200K to the last year of the full-size
>Lucerne...it's been reliable but not as fuel efficient with the 3.5 as
>was the old 3.8 as it's geared lower--altho I suppose one could have had
>options there if bought new instead of finding the last low-mileage one
>could find in the area.
>
>Not sure what will do next -- there's nothing of decent size being made
>any longer by anybody. :(

On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:09:11 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>> >On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>> >> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>> >> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>> >> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>> >> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gas milage
>> >> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>> >> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>> >> cold heated seats.
>> >>
>> >> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>> >>
>> >+
>> >
>> >Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>> >big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>> >realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>> >mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>> >great!
>> >
>> >I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>> >would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>> >be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>> >am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>> >1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>> >in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>> >vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>> >the Ranger.
>>
>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>> Length?
>
>I can in my Honda Odyssey. I can carry 10' foot boards too, with the
>tailgate closed. ;-)

What about 12' boards?

On 6/2/2019 2:49 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 6/2/2019 1:48 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> You may have the podium. ;~)
>
> Used the '28 regularly until the '60s...it's what I learned to drive in.
>  Unfortunately, while my brother and I were away at college Dad sold it
> to a restorer so don't still have it.  :(
>
> Ones I can remember and name included '39, '48, '57, '58, '59, '79(?),
> '88 grain trucks from 1-1/2T to the tandem.  Of course, now everything
> has shifted to much larger capacity and using semis rather than bobtails
> for serious hauling.
>
> First PU was '58 Fleetside w/ manual 4 on floor (wish still had it,
> too)...altho I can't name all of them specifically as at one time were
> as many as 4-5 on the place at once...the '86 "town truck" Silverado
> still had only 38K on it when we came back in 2000.  I gave my '72 C10
> Fleetside (mutard yellow/white) had in VA/TN to pipefitter/plumber
> friend when we came back...I did put new rings in it at about 250K was
> only thing ever had to do to it.  AFAIK he's still got it altho haven't
> asked for a while...there was on mid-70s that I recall that was just too
> ugly a tan/brown color that is probably reason it didn't have the heart
> to last.  :)  It was the one that body rusted out on in just a few years
> that is the only one of the whole lot I'd say was a "lemon".  And, all
> of them with the exception of just the one or two that were dad's "town"
> trucks were "rode hard and put up wet" in not being coddled and used
> roughly for farm.
>
> Still use the '58 C60 regularly as seed tender and for cleanup work
> around the place.  Only work ever done on it is brakes.  The odometer
> did fail around 130K years ago so have no idea how many miles it
> actually has...doesn't go a long way at a time any more, but I'd have no
> qualms going anywhere in it this afternoon (if I changed oil first,
> etc., ...).
>
> '84 Delta 88 did throw rod bearing but I blame that totally on QS oil
> after I pulled intake and saw what sludge it had done...rebuilt it (350
> Chevy engine) and it went to 300K last I knew...donated it eventually to
> some returning friends who had been on mission trip and needed something
> when came back to States.
>
> The '88 88 also had almost 300K on it with no mechanical issues (did
> have to have AC compressor replaced under warranty when was new--a
> machine cutting got left in during manufacture).  The headliner had
> finally fallen in it, though, so it wasn't still perfect when daughter
> decided to not pay to have the interior redone.  :)  A friend of hers
> used it w/o for quite a number of years altho I suppose by now it has
> probably been retired...
>
> I've had almost universal good service from GM -- altho folks had a
> bug-eye 60 Buick when was a kid that never failed us on a trip but
> several times threw a water pump not long after returning from a long
> trip.  Dad got fed up and traded it off -- the mechanic at the
> dealership bought it, put one more water pump on it and drove it for
> another 10-15 years without another failure.  I _think_ it's still in
> town altho it has been in storage for last 10 year or so--I don't
> believe they've yet had the estate sale of his collection.
>
> Just may have been lucky, but I certainly have no complaints as a whole
> against GM...
>
> --


Having ate, breathed, and you know what, I though GM was pretty goo too.
And no complaints. I thought what had gone wrong with them was just
normal for any vehicle. Our family, aunts and uncles only drove GM
products. And I was the service sales manager for the dealership, my
vehicles were not neglected. I actually retired from the automotive
industry.

My really biggest complaint against GM was that the dealer had to eat a
big portion of warranty parts and labor. The parts were indeed
defective, but the factory only paid for a percentage of the same
repairs. Why only a percentage? Because we were replacing more than
the average for our zone. Why were we replacing more than our zone?
Because the factory was sending the upset customers to us, from other
dealers in the zone.

My salary was also based on gross profit for the service department.
Every time the factory rejected a repair the parts and labor that the
dealer ate also came out of my paycheck.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 13:48:51 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 6/1/2019 2:30 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 6/1/2019 10:05 AM, Leon wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Thanks for the report.  I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look
>>> pretty big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit
>>> inside and realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench
>>> seat.  The mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison.    Gas
>>> mileage sounds great!
>>>
>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall.  I wish Toyota
>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will
>>> not be as reliable or trouble free.  None of my previous GM pickups
>>> were.  I am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra.  Right
>>> now the New 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or
>>> Platinum are in my sites.  We want the long trip comfort that these
>>> particular vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking
>>> strongly at the Ranger.
>>
>> The plethora of cars disguised as trucks is phenomenal any more...but
>> you have to search really, really hard unless you're content with
>> regular cab or the extended cab to find anything with long bed--and
>> afaict there is none manufactured in 1/2T that is 4D w/ long bed--has to
>> be 3/4T (which is ok, but don't really need the weight capacity so much
>> any more as have moved fuel transfer tanks to trailers for the diesel).
>> But a shortbed is essentially useless for farm; can't even lay a post in
>> the bed of a lot of 'em and shut the tailgate so can go somewhere at
>> speed and not worry about losing half along the way.  :(
>>
>> So far I've just kept the old 2D because don't need the second seat
>> often, but when do, the crammed leg room just wouldn't work well since
>> almost always when that is would be for longer trips to the NM ground
>> instead of just local.  So, so far have always ended up w/ multiple
>> vehicles.
>>
>> As far as GM, everybody's experience is different, but we've had nothing
>> but Chevy's since 1928 and I can't think of but one of the lot in the
>> mid '70s that wasn't as reliable as could ask for...I don't recall ever
>> doing any major work on any of them; the one was in the era of the sorry
>> sheet metal and rounded fenders that caught all the manure and ensilage
>> and so rotted out in a few years (like Fords typically did almost
>> universally in the 50s/60s/70s until they finally began to improve
>> bodies some).
>>
>> Ram made huge inroads out here in farm/oil patch country when first
>> introduced the new design but with GM and Ford beginning to catch up
>> again after the big redesign the price differential is beginning to show
>> up and Chevy is really catching up again...Ford still leads for the
>> lighter duty and the city folk who do just want a car with a bed or the
>> bare-bones oil trucks doing metering and well monitoring, etc., where
>> they're just driving from site to site...
>>
>> The GM ad on the Al bed is telling, though...I've seen any number of
>> them with hard use that have torn just like the ads showed with the
>> dropped block or toolbox.  Don't know if they've done any fixes on that
>> last year or two or not, but if you're going to use it hard, better have
>> a bed liner from what I've observed.
>>
>> If you're just going to the Borg now and then or puling the boat to the
>> lake or the like, probably fine.
>>
>> --
>
>
>I worked for a GM dealer and if you had vehicles that did not require
>much work you were lucky.


Garage Man's Companion That's what GMC stands for. Kept bread on the
table of many a mechanic - and the new pnes are not much if any better
than the older ones. From the late seventies on they have declined
significantly in build quality - anf the "financial engineers" have
gotten more input then the "automotive engineers"

> My first GMC High Siera, a 79 350 long bed
>was basic. It had AC, AT,PB's and PS. I do not recall haveing much
>work done to it but 10 mpg on the highway was staggering. And most of
>my driving was in the city, much worse. I could go about 300 miles, in
>town on 2, 20 gallon tanks.
>
>My 97 Silverado had all of the above, 305 engine, plus PW, and PDL's and
>extended cab, short bed.
Did you own it long enough for the cam to go flat? pr the valve
guides to waller out?
>
>I had the heater hose, the one with the special fitting on the end
>replaced 3 times, intake manifold gasket replaced 2 times, and 2
>alternators.
You got away lucky
>
>Not too bad but that is the way GM opperates dont improve the part next
>year just keep using the same part that goes bad.
>
>I had a 72 Vega, what can I say? Got rid of it at about 50K.
About 20K too late? The fact that GM managed to sell the second Vega
to many owners says a lot about "blind brand Loyalty"
>
>I had a 75 Olds Starfire. replaced clutch 23 times, replaced clutch
>cable 1 time, replaced ignition/distributor/coil one time, replaced
>heater core 1 time. And that was one of my best. got rid of it at
>about 97K.
Fancied up Chevy Monza - which was a recycled Vega.
>
>83 Cutlass Ciera, replaced engine one time, steering rack & pinion 1
>time, heater core 1 time. Got rid of it at about 49K.
>
Mainstream GM product - par for the course. Basically a fancied up
X-car -like the Citation. The joke at the time was "how can the call
it an ex-car when it never was a car?" It was a bold move by GM into
the front wheel drive "common man's car" - but after 3 years of
production of the "X" the "A" didn't fix any of the problems.

Then there was the "T" - the Chevette "world car". The joke was GM
only made one mistake on the chevette - it needed dual exhaust -
because it's hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle.-
Nickname? The "shovette"
>I mentioned the 2 GM trucks.
>
>Tried VW 2 times and got rid of both, one had 17K the other had about 46K
>
>After that I went Japanese.
>
>89 Acura Integra, 1 Heater Core and only Maintenance
>First vehicle to go well past 100K.

I don't think I've sold a vehicle with less than 100000 miles
(160,000km)
>
>87 Isuzu Trooper, Only maintenance.
>
>04 Accord. Only maintenance.
>
>07 Tundra, Maintenance and a brake light switch and water pump while
>still under warranty. Recently the serpentine belt and belt tensioner.
>
>202 Camry SE V6. First car ever that I never had any warranty work
>done. Only maintenance.
>
>IMHO Ford is still doing well but the new RAM is out selling the NEW
>Silverado and the new Silverado has not done much different with the
>recent rebuild except finally centering the steering wheel with the
>drivers seat and now offer a 4 cyl engine.

call that an improvement? Their 5 cyl would likely have been better.
>
>GM seems to be copying Toyota's philosophy, don't make any changes that
>might appeal to the majority. The interiors of their NEW trucks still suck.

But at least the rest of the Toyota has something going for it.
>
>You may have the podium. ;~)
And the 6.0 / 6.2 engines are timebombs. The 5.3 wasn't much better
with cyl heads that may as well have been made of glass for as often
and easily as they cracked. My brother hates them, but up around
Huntsville Ont they are pretty common and they pay the bills.

If you can keet the body on them and don't twist the frame to a
pretzel the cummins Ram is pretty much bulletproof - and the hemiis
not far behind. They had some front end problems on the 4X4 2500 and
3500 but the aftermarket solved that very effectively (death wobble
issues)

On 6/2/2019 12:25 AM, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> How much bling you can pile on a truck is rather meaningless.
>
> Since you brought it up, don't All trucks made today have a Lot more
> bling than they had 40 years ago?  40 years ago, you could get a truck
> for less than a car, right?  Excuse me if I'm misusing the term bling
> here, I expect you know what I mean (suspension, etc.).


You can still get a loaded truck for less than a car. Cars in general
can be had with a higher price tag. I'm not sure what an S-Class
Mercedes would cost but the new 2019 Ram 1500 interior and ride has been
compared to that by several sources.

FWIW trucks today pretty much come standard with AT, AC, PS, PB's, not
the case a few decades ago.

On 6/2/2019 6:36 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 21:30:36 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 10:32:12 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 16:58:43 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:45:05 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:41:17 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 12:09:11 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:05:29 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/31/2019 5:18 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I like it, things I notice first it is about the same size as a F 150.
>>>>>>>>> Has a lot of bells and whistles, but plugging in a USB flash drive
>>>>>>>>> loaded with music is great (having once crashed while retrieving a CD
>>>>>>>>> from the floor). The tail gate is lighter than other ones. Gays milage
>>>>>>>>> is real good, about 21 + around town (not a city small town) and got
>>>>>>>>> 32 on a trip in to St Louis on the interstate. When the weather gets
>>>>>>>>> cold heated seats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have been considering a travel trailer, with 7500 lbs rating.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the report. I'll agree that the mid sized trucks look pretty
>>>>>>>> big when compared to the full sized trucks, until you sit inside and
>>>>>>>> realize a 3rd person is not going to fit as well on a bench seat. The
>>>>>>>> mid sized trucks are pretty narrow by comparison. Gas mileage sounds
>>>>>>>> great!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll be looking into upgrading my 07 Tundra this fall. I wish Toyota
>>>>>>>> would stay up with the competition as I suspect what ever I get will not
>>>>>>>> be as reliable or trouble free. None of my previous GM pickups were. I
>>>>>>>> am not going to wait for the speculated 2021 Tundra. Right now the New
>>>>>>>> 1500 Ram Limited or Long Horn and the F-150 King Ranch or Platinum are
>>>>>>>> in my sites. We want the long trip comfort that these particular
>>>>>>>> vehicles offer over mid sized, otherwise I would be looking strongly at
>>>>>>>> the Ranger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you lay down a sheet of plywood in the bed? Between the wheels?
>>>>>>> Length?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can in my Honda Odyssey. I can carry 10' foot boards too, with the
>>>>>> tailgate closed. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> What about 12' boards?
>>>>
>>>> If I tie the rear hatch down, yes. BTDT
>>>>
>>>> Heck, I can fit bigger wood in my Ody than in my trailer. (5 X 8 enclosed)
>>>>
>>>> For 16' boards, I've done this.
>>>>
>>>> http://i.imgur.com/3ICIwpl.jpg
>>>
>>> I was considering a 32' ladder but couldn't figure out how to get it
>>> home. SWMBO pitched a fit, though, and we're hiring someone to do
>>> that work. I think I'm going to be limited to 20' from now on. ...And
>>> she isn't happy about that. Something about a fractured pelvis, bypass
>>> surgery, a pacemaker, and blood thinners. Narrow minded people!
>>
>> My trailer rig would have got the ladder home for you.
>
> I *think* I could have done it with my truck. I have one of these for
> it:
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I1AQRM0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1>
>
> That gets me 12' from the front of the bed to the support. Another 4'
> is do-able but I'd be nervous.
>
>> If your SWMBO was home, I would have used slip knots so I could drop it and speed away.
>
> LOL!
>


Food for thought, A cheap axle kit and wheels, brake light kit, and a
hitch and you have a ladder trailer!