My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
it.
any suggestions.
thanks
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 05:24:48 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>snip-----
>>
>>>I kind of agree with TMT in that it should be kept in a spirit of
>>>junkyard wars. Build something nice (meaning that something that
>>>performs a useful function) from scrap.
>>>
>>>He recently made a "rocket" from a Pringles can and paper. We launch
>>>it with my compressor. He is very happy about it. He even painted it
>>>gold.
>>>
>>>i
>>
>>Exactly. A child of that age has no concept of proper
construction------a
>>cardboard rocket is probably every bit as desirable to him as a fine car
>>would be to an adult. Way to go, Ig.
>
>
> Yes. You got it. This is not an exercise in building beautiful
> models. This is an exercise for the kid to learn the pleasures of
> making stuff (as well as the value of patience and planning). I am
> fully aware that the result will be far from beautiful.
>
> If I wanted to own a beautiful model ship, I would buy something mass
> produced in Chinese sweatshops using CNC, for $30 or so.
>
> Functionality wise, what I want from this model is 1) to look like a
> ship 2) be able to float in water 3) be able to survive exposure to
> "life" for decades, in case if he wants to keep it as a childhood
> memory.
>
> i
Start with a selection of pictures of ships printed out and up on the
wall. If he has a favorite book with a ship in it, skip this and just
blow up the picture in the book. Thats for inspiration.
Next you want a large block of balsa wood. I see its possible to get
2"x4" a foot long for about $6 or so. You *really* *really* want balsa
wood because its so soft its easy to work with hand tools which means
far far more of it will be his project rather than Daddy's project. A
selection of smaller pieces as well for the superstructure and some pine
dowels for masts etc. should also be got.
It would be a good idea to get a small saw and hammer, You may need to
take a few inches off the handle for the hammer so it balances in a
kid's hand. These will be *his* tools and you ask before YOU borrow
them. (with what you have around the place, teaching respect for other
peoples tools ASAP would be smart)
You will also want some stiff paper or thin card for templates. Trace
round the block onto the paper to help him with the maximum size then
get your child to draw what shape he thinks the deck should be if he was
on a bridge looking streight down at the ship, fold it down the centre
line for symmetry,.cut out, and stickytape it to the block of balsa for
your kid to colour round with a marker top and bottom.
Then its HIS job to remove the wood he just coloured. Teach him to cut
a little outside the line then take the rest off with a rasp. Then have
him decide how much more he wants the bottom smaller than the deck, make
another template (flip the old one over?) and repeat the cut
out/mark/cut away process but this time at an angle rather than
streight. Then its onto sanding it smooth.
Details on deck will be made from smaller blocks pinned and glued into
place (you want a supply of long brass panel pins here, steel *will*
rust. Any 'oops' get fixed by you with scrap balsa, balsa sawdust and
exterior wood glue. As long as you avoid chisels, planes, knives etc.
there is very little risk of injury.
A few days later after its been pushed around the house for a while, its
time to discuss painting it. Basically, you want to get him to help
apply a coat of low toxicity primer (balsa is far too porous and will be
really difficult for him to paint otherwise) and you can improve the
surface with a little filler and get a second coat of primer on after
bedtime.
Next day, its time to see if it floats near enough level, correcting any
tilt by adding lead free solder (plumbing solder) let in to holes
drilled for it then plugged with filler. Assist him in marking the
waterline then get the boat dried off to paint. (an excuse to have to go
out for a few hours is good here). He gets to paint it (ask the
woodworkers for advice here) then a few days later when its properly
dry, you spray it with clearcoat.
I've read most of the other suggestions and thought back to my first
boat model which was on display till I was grown up and my Grandmother
died then heaven knows what happened to it. You need to keep it simple,
(remove anything that isnt boat shaped) and safe, which means no edged
or power tools yet. One *can * cut onself with a small hand saw, but he
isn't going to do himself serious damage yet. Dont forget a dust mask
each when sanding, good habits start young.
Further projects could include a boat towed from the bank on a bridle
like a kite, rubber band powered boats (you *will* need some sort of
gearbox to match the rubber band untwisting to a model boat propeller)
then an electric boat using parts guttted from a cheap RC toy.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.
Buy a block of simple Balsa wood or just a couple pieces of scrap wood.
(Pine) Let your sons mind do the work . It don't have to be fancy their
imagination will take care of that. I have made several thing with grandkids
and they can be just as happy with a piece of wood if they build it an color
it with magic marker. We built cars with a block of wood with cut disc for
wheels Pontoon just a block of wood with a point and they still play with
them..
We spent several hours building a race car very detailed
with a :-) Rocket engine for propulsion and a model airplane engine (I had
as a kid myself) They still play with the blocks of wood . Just a old
Grandpas thoughts
"Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
How about a stitch-and-glue boat? It could be model sized or you
could make it big enough that it could actually be used.
R
On 9 Feb, 16:32, Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship.
I'd go for "bread and butter" construction, where you saw out boat-
shaped waterline profiles (probably from 1/2" balsa, stack and glue
them, then sand to remove anything that doesn't look like a boat.
It has the advantage that you can feed him a kit of parts that looks
nothing like a boat, yet has most of the hard work done already. It's
also an easy way to build "ocean liner" superstructures. Use dowel
pegs in pre-drilled holes to align them during gluing. Make some
sanding tools for him, out of sections of broomhandle or plywood
offcuts with a layer of foam then a layer of very coarse sandpaper
glued to them. These are easy to use and don't need the broad hand
grip usually needed to hold sandpaper in place.
I usually provide a set of instructions as drawings like a plastic
model kit, showing how it goes together. Then I "have to be busy" with
something else (which just happens to be at the next bench) while he
gets on with things on his own.
The "night shift" repairs any problems arising during the day's
construction, up to and including the complete replacement of damaged
components. Of course there mustn't be any _visible_ change overnight.
This isn't about how it gets done, it's about him getting to make
something and afterwards know that "He can make things".
A flat-bottomed hull by bread-and-butter can be thick enough to embed
a set of carpet wheels into it, so he can play with it at home too.
They also add a bit of low-down ballast for stability when afloat.
Incense cones work down the funnels to make smoke, if you use
lightweight aluminium tube. Watch that it doesn't scratch the bathtub
though. I wouldn't have a mast - it'll only get broken.
The history of WW1 "Q ships" gives you an excuse to have ocean liners
that sprout gun turrets (He'll want them). A hinged flap to hide them
behind is even more fun.
If you're feeling really brave, there's an Edwardian(?) toy battleship
that contained a wooden mousetrap for realistic "magazine explosion"
effects when torpedoed. The whole superstucture and turrets were
fretsawn wooden blocks, piled loosely on top and kicked apart by the
mousetrap spring. A piece of lead "cheese" acts as an inertia trigger
for when it's hit by a torpedo (wheeled on inset steel balls) fired
from a spring in the matching "torpedo boat". I modelled the replica
I did of this on HMS Canopus (web pics a plenty).
On Feb 9, 1:36 pm, "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9 Feb, 16:32, Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship.
>
> I'd go for "bread and butter" construction, where you saw out boat-
> shaped waterline profiles (probably from 1/2" balsa, stack and glue
> them, then sand to remove anything that doesn't look like a boat.
>
<snip good ideas>
> The history of WW1 "Q ships" gives you an excuse to have ocean liners
> that sprout gun turrets (He'll want them). A hinged flap to hide them
> behind is even more fun.
>
No, no, NO. Little boys must not play with guns, it teaches hostility
and violence. They musn't play tag because whoever is 'it' will
develop an inferiority complex. They musn't play dodgeball because
the smaller kids will feel smaller and develop a complex. They must
be suspended from grade school for making terroristic threats if they
dare play cops & robbers and say "I'm going to get you".
Little boys should be forced to play soccer in games where each team
scores 5 goals and everyone gets a trophy, baseball and football are
too violent and one team might actually lose. We need to teach our
children that they are no smarter, taller, faster or better or worse
than anyone else everyone is exactly the same.
This PSA brought to you by the committee to make America mediocre.
On Feb 9, 11:32 am, Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
My suggestion would actually be to use "1 inch" white pine. Build up
a stack of cross-sections glued together, and then shape on a belt
sander. Part of the reason for this is that the result is durable -
it can take years of sailing the living room floor, enduring
bombardment with 3/8" ball bearings from older brother's pen-spring-
loaded shore battery, etc.
It is true there's more use of power tools involved than ideal, but
you can have your son heavily involved in the design and "supervision"
of the work, which goes pretty quickly. It's also a great way to
introduce the idea of filling a need by desining the solution and then
building it. You can either do full-scale design drawings, or simply
draw directly on the wood - place the crew and cargo on the board and
draw the hull around them. Place the cannon and draw its ports, etc.
Then while you are cutting out each additional layer, he can either
watch you, or play with stack of those cut so far. Glue-up is just
before bed time - the next day he has the unsmoothed hull, that
evening you sand it with a combination of power and hand tools.
You can also make it a two part project - either do a prototype as a
suprise gift to introduce the idea, and then a nicer one as a joint
project with his design input. Or do one together, and then an even
bigger/better taking those ideas further. After all, with no upkeep
costs, what owner wouldn't want two boats?
I think my brother and I did a lot more with the never-really finished
ship of this sort than we ever did when he finally received the
commercial "pirate ship" it was intended as a substitute for. Sure,
all that rigging and detail looked cool on the packaging, but the
decks were just too crowded for much activity.
>
> Functionality wise, what I want from this model is 1) to look like a
> ship 2) be able to float in water 3) be able to survive exposure to
> "life" for decades, in case if he wants to keep it as a childhood
> memory.
>
4) The memories you and your son will have .... priceless.
TMT
On Feb 9, 11:42 pm, Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 05:24:48 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> > snip-----
>
> >> I kind of agree with TMT in that it should be kept in a spirit of
> >> junkyard wars. Build something nice (meaning that something that
> >> performs a useful function) from scrap.
>
> >> He recently made a "rocket" from a Pringles can and paper. We launch
> >> it with my compressor. He is very happy about it. He even painted it
> >> gold.
>
> >> i
>
> > Exactly. A child of that age has no concept of proper construction------a
> > cardboard rocket is probably every bit as desirable to him as a fine car
> > would be to an adult. Way to go, Ig.
>
> Yes. You got it. This is not an exercise in building beautiful
> models. This is an exercise for the kid to learn the pleasures of
> making stuff (as well as the value of patience and planning). I am
> fully aware that the result will be far from beautiful.
>
> If I wanted to own a beautiful model ship, I would buy something mass
> produced in Chinese sweatshops using CNC, for $30 or so.
>
> Functionality wise, what I want from this model is 1) to look like a
> ship 2) be able to float in water 3) be able to survive exposure to
> "life" for decades, in case if he wants to keep it as a childhood
> memory.
>
> i- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On 9 Feb, 23:07, JR North <[email protected]> wrote:
> Suggest you start with a produced model, which has frames, stingers,
> hull planking, etc. Invaluable in teaching your son about the form,
> construction and logical sequence of assembly.
He's only 5 ! He doesn't need to learn anything about boats just
yet, he only needs to emerge with something and to feel, "I made
that".
5 year olds also have minimal motor skills and no ability to use
complex tools. IMHE just about all they can do is hammering, gluing,
sanding and painting. Knives are out for safety, saws don't work well
unless you have good control over their movement and most planes don't
work well enough to keep their attention.
5 year olds also have minimal conscious control of their attention.
They're OK while they're actively interested and things are working
out, but if something doesn't work for them first time, they'll just
walk away. They might spend ages sanding a boat hull to shape, because
they can work sandpaper glued to a stick, but they'll not plane it if
they haven't learned to control the pressure on a plane, even though
most of us would see this as quicker and easier than sanding.
On 10 Feb, 11:14, [email protected] wrote:
> Foam insulation - the rigid kind.
>
> Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
> wire. You can get nichrome from a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
> U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire.
Don't carve foam insulation with a hot wire. The old polystyrene
insulation was unpleasant for fumes, the modern isocyanate foams cut
much better (no beads) but the fumes from those are really pretty
toxic. As they don't break down into loose beads anyway, they can
sand to shape very quickly.
A bread knife with a wiggly edge, not fine serrations, is the best
tool for slabbing out blanks.
On Feb 10, 5:14 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:32:34 -0600, Ignoramus8098
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> >my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> >his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> >want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> >suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> >Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> >type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> >it.
>
> >any suggestions.
>
> >thanks
>
> Foam insulation - the rigid kind.
>
> Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
> wire. You can getnichromefrom a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
> U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire. It's _fun_
> to carve with this setup, and foam is cheap, & will float.
see http://www.pnjresources.com/Nichrome_page.htm for nichrome wire.
Talk to the family doctor. He buys bags of them to mash down on tongues!
I bet his supplier would love to peak his delivery for the month!
Perhaps a medical supply in town ? Or large pharmacy that deals with
everything...
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot"s Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/
Arcady wrote:
> Try to use those small flat wood ice cream sticks they sell by bags (use
> strait short ones). Put them flat building the shape as by long flat
> bricks. White glue will do very well. Lay out the skull profiles and may
> be build some simple staple. Some supervision will help to maintain the
> shape (white glue easy to fix for quite a time). As the last touch for
> ready scull some sandpaper or even sand belt will do.
>
> Arcady
>
> Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>
>> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
>> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
>> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
>> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
>> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>>
>> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
>> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
>> it.
>> any suggestions.
>>
>> thanks
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Get Un used ones. One doesn't want to play with unknown danger !!
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Endowment Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot"s Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/
B A R R Y wrote:
> Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
>
>> Talk to the family doctor. He buys bags of them to mash down on tongues!
>>
>
> Ask the Dr. to save the used items.
>
> Ewwwwwwwwww! <G>
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own.
I suggest you weld it! Even better, your son welds it. Then you can claim
how much better your welds got.
When you are finished -don't forget to start at least 5 new new threads
titled "finished"- and it sinks, you can tell that you wanted to build an
U-boat from beginning on.
This way, you can have an on-topic post. Ain't that great? And I'll have
even more to laugh.
Nick
--
***********************************
*** Available now in NZ and AUS ***
***********************************
<http://www.yadro.de>
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:32:34 -0600, Ignoramus8098
<[email protected]> wrote:
>My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
>my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
>his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
>want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
>suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
>Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
>type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
>it.
>
>any suggestions.
>
>thanks
Foam insulation - the rigid kind.
Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
wire. You can get nichrome from a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire. It's _fun_
to carve with this setup, and foam is cheap, & will float.
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:59:40 -0600, Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>> You might try some "mat board" from an art supply store or a picture
>> framing shop. It's a little thicker than 1 mm, maybe 2 mm or so. Pretty
>> hard to cut it cleanly with scissors; best to use an x-acto knife or
>> utility knife or a razor blade.
>>
>> Dan in Wyoming
>
> Dan, that's interesting. Is is easy to glue?
>
> i
Yes. Mat board is basically very thick paper. Can be glued with plain old
white "Elmer's" glue, or superglue (maybe not the best choice for a
5-yr-old!), or epoxy, or rubber cement, or almost any glue you can think of
using. I could foresee you doing the cutting and your small assistant
doing the glue work.
RicodJour mentioned stitch-and-glue, and mat board would lend itself to
that. If you were to drill the holes with a very small drill bit, then
maybe your boy could stitch it together with one of those round-pointed
yarn needles.
Hmmmm.... my 5-yr-old niece is coming to visit one of these months.
Thanks for giving me some ideas- as grandma and grandpa have a pond behind
their house, maybe we will build a little boat when Katie is here.
Dan
One of the most important considerations is keeping the young person
involved. In my experience, it helps if he/she has small jobs to do while
you tackle the more complicated stuff. Back in the 70s, a young lad asked if
I could fix a Stuart 10H that he had. It seems his father built it, and died
soon afterwards. His mother gave permission for him to be present when the
work was done. Just about everything on the engine was misaligned. The young
lad soon started to get bored. In response, I started setting up cuts on the
lathe, then had him turn the hand wheels. He soon had the knack of it, and
his interest returned. In two hours, and forty five minutes a very pleased
boy was watching the engine running on air! He walked out the shop cradling
it in his hands, pleased as punch. It was the only thing he had from his
father, as his mother disposed of everything.
Steve R.
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
I vaguely recall an interview with a chap who ran a cabinet-making shop
(might have been viscount Lindley) and talking about some formative
memories. He described building a submarine with his dad (ok, not
exactly a ship) - it sounded simple but stimulating - cut out basic
shape from a lump of wood, some kind of open hook on the bottom with an
iron ring - it'd "dive" to the bottom, the ring would land on the bottom
& fall off and the sub would rise again. Lots of scope for keeping it
very simple or getting fancy, & sounds like fun. Though I suppose you
could only use it in one of those special boat ponds you see around from
time to time, where it's not going to get tangled up in weed or a
shopping trolley.
g.
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:28:28 -0600, Ignoramus8098 wrote:
...
> I can ask a clarification question: where can I find heavy
> paper/cardboard (not corrugated) that is, say, 1 mm thick.
>
> I think that I would be able to go a long way with that, esp. if I
> apply epoxy after the model is done.
Styrene or ABS plastic sheet would be a better material for model boat
building - see http://www.plastruct.com/pages/RetailDisplays.html about
halfway down, and try to find a hobby shop or sign shop that carries some
materials like those. Sign shops will also carry LDPE sheet. Also see
http://www.sherwoodmodels.co.uk/main/plasticcss.html advice (which
unfortunately says, "recommended for the use of adult scale modellers only")
Styrene sheet for models is perhaps half-mm thick, and can be cut
with scissors, razor knife, or nibbler. If you get to a hobby shop, also
look for a "razor saw", a small thin backsaw that would be safe for a kid
to use, as would be a little Dremel-like tool too. For thin cardboard or
thick paper, look for a local paper goods store.
http://www.georgehart.com/virtual-polyhedra/paper-models.html has some
paper model construction ideas and links to design software. It might be
reasonable to start with a kit or two, like at http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/
or http://www.sirus.com/users/sulstad/paper_models.html or download pdfs
from http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/entertainment/papercraft/
-jiw
"Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
snip-----
>
> I kind of agree with TMT in that it should be kept in a spirit of
> junkyard wars. Build something nice (meaning that something that
> performs a useful function) from scrap.
>
> He recently made a "rocket" from a Pringles can and paper. We launch
> it with my compressor. He is very happy about it. He even painted it
> gold.
>
> i
Exactly. A child of that age has no concept of proper construction------a
cardboard rocket is probably every bit as desirable to him as a fine car
would be to an adult. Way to go, Ig.
Harold
Suggest you start with a produced model, which has frames, stingers,
hull planking, etc. Invaluable in teaching your son about the form,
construction and logical sequence of assembly. Much better than just an
external appearance. He needs to know WHY a boat looks like it does, and
how they are made. Next project: A boat style you both agree on, made
with any of the other posters suggestions for materials. This can be
more for the imagined boat he wants. But,If he is anything like me when
I was 5, he will want a bigger, better produced kit to assemble next.
JR
Dweller in the cellar
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]> wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
How about Wood? You mention cardboard, but I think I'd let a 5 year old
use a saw on wood before letting him use a craft knife on cardboard. Take
a 1x4 board and a 1/4" dowel. Cut a pointy end on the board. Shorten
board to taste. Drill a hole in the middle. Insert dowel in hole. Hoist a
paper sail and go boating!
Kits have been mentioned. Here is a quality outfit:
<http://www.seaworthysmallships.com/>
Be sure to look at the 'Pine Wood Sailers' and the 'Model Boat Plans'.
The 'Pine Wood Sailers' are very simple and the one plan they have is
fairly complex, but uses no glue and can be scaled. Everything they do
Floats.
Keep it Simple and Fun and make sure it is really a Joint Effort!
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>
> I bought plastic models. They are very much NOT what I am looking
> for. Way too detailed and impossible for little fingers to
> assemble. What ends up happening is that I waste hours truing to glue
> pieces of plastic together, and my son can do nothing. I was livid by
> the time I finished a Titanic model (though I did not show it).
Check out "Snap Tite" kits.
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
How about sheet styrene? It's nice stuff for modelling, available in
many thicknesses, strips, shapes, tube, you name it... It's easily
joined with liquid plastic cement, cut and shaped with XActo blades and
files, waterproof, and takes paint well.
Evergreen is a name sold by hobby and model shops.
Is there any particular reason that you don't want to go to a big hobby
shop and look around for kits or materials?
Pete Stanaitis
-----------------------------------
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>
> I bought plastic models. They are very much NOT what I am looking
> for. Way too detailed and impossible for little fingers to
> assemble. What ends up happening is that I waste hours truing to glue
> pieces of plastic together, and my son can do nothing.
<snip>
OK, this one is courtesy of my dad.
Take a piece of 1x6, about 10"-15" long.
Take a couple of angle cuts on one end to form the bow AKA: "Pointy Part".
Add a rudder skeg using some 1/4" ply.
Form a mast using a piece of 3/8" dowel rod.
Form a cross arm using a piece of 3/8" dowel rod.
Sew up a down wind sail from an old bed sheet.
Use some mason's twine to lash the cross arm to the mast as well as
for sail rigging.
Use some screw eyes to locate the rigging.
Paint it black.
Get out your wood burning kit and engrave the name "Falcon" on the
sides, then fill letters with silver paint.
You have just duplicated my cub scout project when I was about 8 years
old.
BTW, typical square rigger. Goes like hell down wind, but doesn't
point worth a damn.
Have fun.
Lew
Hey, here's a crazy idea. When I was young, I loved boats and model
rockets. I had several models of aircraft carriers, destroyers, etc. And I
also had a bunch of those Estes rocket engines that were launched by battery
to what seemed like thousands of feet in the air. Now, if you and your boy
make a couple disposable boats and strap one of those rocket engines on
it........Anyway, let him push the launch button....TONS of fun...Just make
sure there is no one else in the line of fire! --dave
"Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]> wrote in news:pN-
[email protected]:
> I want it to be approximately 1 foot.
>
> I can ask a clarification question: where can I find heavy
> paper/cardboard (not corrugated) that is, say, 1 mm thick.
>
> I think that I would be able to go a long way with that, esp. if I
> apply epoxy after the model is done.
>
> i
>
Craft supplier, or first rate art supply store, or a stationer. Lots of
options available. Architects and designers model with such stuff pretty
regularly. Avoid foamcore.
Patriarch
Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I do, actually, want this to be a little more DIY and a little more
> multisession.
>
> I bought plastic models. They are very much NOT what I am looking
> for. Way too detailed and impossible for little fingers to
> assemble. What ends up happening is that I waste hours truing to glue
> pieces of plastic together, and my son can do nothing. I was livid by
> the time I finished a Titanic model (though I did not show it).
>
> I want the opposite of that: to build something that resembles a ship,
> with maximum of hands on effort on his part and some real world
> engineering.
>
> I kind of agree with TMT in that it should be kept in a spirit of
> junkyard wars. Build something nice (meaning that something that
> performs a useful function) from scrap.
>
> He recently made a "rocket" from a Pringles can and paper. We launch
> it with my compressor. He is very happy about it. He even painted it
> gold.
>
> i
Does he expect the play with the model on the local lake, river,
waterbut? be a shame making a kit that didn't float. you might be better
off with a some blocks of wood and a few simple hand tools for the first
one....
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:53:14 -0600, Ignoramus8098
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:44:43 GMT, Jerry <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Does he expect the play with the model on the local lake, river,
>> waterbut? be a shame making a kit that didn't float. you might be better
>> off with a some blocks of wood and a few simple hand tools for the first
>> one....
>
>I think that my plan with plywood bulkheads is a sensible one. It will
>float with enough epoxying and a sensible sized keel. If the deck is
>removable, which seems to make sense, it can be later enhanced with
>LEDs etc. I will try to make it big enough so that it can be messed
>with later (1.5 ft or so).
>
>i
If you are going to that size..how about making a RC controlled sail or
power boat?
They are more than simple enough, you can put a receiver and a couple
servos on a chunk of 2x4 and get it to manuever around a pool or pond.
Rather cheap if you look for an older rc setup. Ive spent as much as $25
on a transmitter, receiver and 1-2 servos <G>
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship.
<snip>
In my youth, I built model boats, trains and airplanes.
Started when I was about 7-8.
By the time I was 16-17, had built some rather complex stuff.
My advise: KISS
The attention span of a 5.5 year old is limited at best when it comes
to building things.
Find a decent hobby shop, buy a SIMPLE model ship kit, and assemble it.
Even though it will probably assemble quickly, don't rush it.
Patience is a tough lesson to learn. Might as well start early.
Have fun.
Lew
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:27:11 -0600, spaco <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is there any particular reason that you don't want to go to a big hobby
> shop and look around for kits or materials?
I am fully open to that. My son is sick right now, but hopefully
we can do it on the weekend.
i
On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 10:57:40 -0700, DB Rea <danielb@tribcspdotcom> wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:28:28 -0600, Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>
>> I want it to be approximately 1 foot.
>>
>> I can ask a clarification question: where can I find heavy
>> paper/cardboard (not corrugated) that is, say, 1 mm thick.
>>
>> I think that I would be able to go a long way with that, esp. if I
>> apply epoxy after the model is done.
>>
>> i
>
> You might try some "mat board" from an art supply store or a picture
> framing shop. It's a little thicker than 1 mm, maybe 2 mm or so. Pretty
> hard to cut it cleanly with scissors; best to use an x-acto knife or
> utility knife or a razor blade.
>
> Dan in Wyoming
Dan, that's interesting. Is is easy to glue?
i
RicodJour wrote:
> Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
>> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
>> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
>> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
>> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>>
>> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
>> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
>> it.
>>
>> any suggestions.
>
> How about a stitch-and-glue boat? It could be model sized or you
> could make it big enough that it could actually be used.
>
> R
>
How big do you want to make it? He can get into this one
http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/gsahv/oss/oss.htm
Joe
Ignoramus8098 <[email protected]> posted
<[email protected]> in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri, 09 Feb 2007 10:32:34 -0600:
>My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
>my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
>his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
>want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
>suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
>Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
>type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
>it.
Foam core board.
Get it at Micheals or any "crafty" shop or online.
Easy to work with. You can seal with expoxy it if you actually want to
make your model float.
--
K. A. Cannon
kcannon at insurgent dot org
(change the orgy to org to reply)
Obstinate people can be divded into the opinionated, the ignorant,
and the boorish.
-Aristotle, Nichomachean Ethics, Bk. VII
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:44:06 GMT, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> > My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship.
><snip>
>
> In my youth, I built model boats, trains and airplanes.
>
> Started when I was about 7-8.
>
> By the time I was 16-17, had built some rather complex stuff.
>
> My advise: KISS
>
> The attention span of a 5.5 year old is limited at best when it comes
> to building things.
>
> Find a decent hobby shop, buy a SIMPLE model ship kit, and assemble it.
>
> Even though it will probably assemble quickly, don't rush it.
>
> Patience is a tough lesson to learn. Might as well start early.
I do, actually, want this to be a little more DIY and a little more
multisession.
I bought plastic models. They are very much NOT what I am looking
for. Way too detailed and impossible for little fingers to
assemble. What ends up happening is that I waste hours truing to glue
pieces of plastic together, and my son can do nothing. I was livid by
the time I finished a Titanic model (though I did not show it).
I want the opposite of that: to build something that resembles a ship,
with maximum of hands on effort on his part and some real world
engineering.
I kind of agree with TMT in that it should be kept in a spirit of
junkyard wars. Build something nice (meaning that something that
performs a useful function) from scrap.
He recently made a "rocket" from a Pringles can and paper. We launch
it with my compressor. He is very happy about it. He even painted it
gold.
i
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:28:28 -0600, Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> I want it to be approximately 1 foot.
>
> I can ask a clarification question: where can I find heavy
> paper/cardboard (not corrugated) that is, say, 1 mm thick.
>
> I think that I would be able to go a long way with that, esp. if I
> apply epoxy after the model is done.
>
> i
You might try some "mat board" from an art supply store or a picture
framing shop. It's a little thicker than 1 mm, maybe 2 mm or so. Pretty
hard to cut it cleanly with scissors; best to use an x-acto knife or
utility knife or a razor blade.
Dan in Wyoming
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
Many years ago when my daughter came home and said she needed 5 model
airplanes by the following weekend, and wanted to building them in
different shapes and wing styles out of balsa wood, we found a compromise.
she fashioned different types of cones and we filled them with Great
Stuff, the foam in a can. Where necessary she left excess and then
shaped the foam into the body she wanted.
You may try something similar for the boat. The foam is easy to work
with no major sharp tools and you can make into about any shape you
want. When finished you could paint it and it could be played with in
or out of the water.
--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699
"Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made
something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to
have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric
stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully.
Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense
cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I
would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
A chunk of 2 x 6 he can use a small back saw to cut a bow on. Add
a couple of staggered decks using 1 x 4, 1 x 3, and 1 x 2. A
couple of 3" lengths of 1/2" dowel for smoke stacks, and your son
has the start of a fleet that floats. Let him bang in nails to
fasten things together (predrilling starter holes will make it
easier for him to keep them straight), and use the exterior
colors of his choice to paint it up.
I remember building one of these with my Dad when I was about
that age, and being so proud when it was done I could bust. I was
also the envy of the neighbor kids, because I had a "Navy" to
carry my toy soldiers around.
If you want to keep it simpler, use a quart or half gallon waxed
milk or juice container. Lay it on it's side so the spout is up.
Starting just below the spout, mark a line all the way around the
carton. Use a sharp knife, or heavy shears, to cut the spout side
of the carton away. Assist your son in using a small saw to cut a
piece of 1/2" - 3/4" thick balsa wood to fit inside the carton
hull. This is to poke dowels into for making masts that can be
glued in place and smaller dowel "yard arms" fastened to with
twine and glue.
With a 5 year old, keep it simple and have fun.
Len
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:19:56 +0000, Ian Malcolm
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 05:24:48 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos
><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>"Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>snip-----
> >>
> >>>I kind of agree with TMT in that it should be kept in a spirit of
> >>>junkyard wars. Build something nice (meaning that something that
> >>>performs a useful function) from scrap.
> >>>
> >>>He recently made a "rocket" from a Pringles can and paper. We launch
> >>>it with my compressor. He is very happy about it. He even painted it
> >>>gold.
> >>>
> >>>i
> >>
> >>Exactly. A child of that age has no concept of proper
>construction------a
> >>cardboard rocket is probably every bit as desirable to him as a fine car
> >>would be to an adult. Way to go, Ig.
> >
> >
> > Yes. You got it. This is not an exercise in building beautiful
> > models. This is an exercise for the kid to learn the pleasures of
> > making stuff (as well as the value of patience and planning). I am
> > fully aware that the result will be far from beautiful.
> >
> > If I wanted to own a beautiful model ship, I would buy something mass
> > produced in Chinese sweatshops using CNC, for $30 or so.
> >
> > Functionality wise, what I want from this model is 1) to look like a
> > ship 2) be able to float in water 3) be able to survive exposure to
> > "life" for decades, in case if he wants to keep it as a childhood
> > memory.
> >
> > i
>Start with a selection of pictures of ships printed out and up on the
>wall. If he has a favorite book with a ship in it, skip this and just
>blow up the picture in the book. Thats for inspiration.
>
>Next you want a large block of balsa wood. I see its possible to get
>2"x4" a foot long for about $6 or so. You *really* *really* want balsa
>wood because its so soft its easy to work with hand tools which means
>far far more of it will be his project rather than Daddy's project. A
>selection of smaller pieces as well for the superstructure and some pine
>dowels for masts etc. should also be got.
I'm not sure he really wants balsa. The stuff is easy to cut but it's
hard to cut _precisely_. It's so soft that unless the knife is
absoluely razor sharp it crushes instead of cutting. Doesn't saw very
well either, tends to clog up the saw teeth with fuzz. It's main
strength is light weight, not workability. Basswood might be a better
bet.
>It would be a good idea to get a small saw and hammer, You may need to
>take a few inches off the handle for the hammer so it balances in a
>kid's hand. These will be *his* tools and you ask before YOU borrow
>them. (with what you have around the place, teaching respect for other
>peoples tools ASAP would be smart)
A caution--there is a tendency to give kids cheap tools. Resist that
temptation. Kids aren't very strong and they aren't necessarily all
that coordinated--you don't want them fighting a tool that doesn't
work very well besides. If you give him a saw make sure it's a saw
that actually _saws_ without much force. A jeweler's saw or fretsaw
might be a good bet--they aren't horribly expensive, they cut just
about anything, downside is that the blades are very fragile--also
it's a very narrow blade so learning to cut straight can be a problem.
In a wide bladed saw bite the bullet and spend the 35 bucks for a 6
inch dozuki. He'll see how a saw is _supposed_ to work.
My parents were weird--they turned me loose with an Ex-acto knife at
an early age but wouldn't spring for the jeweler's saw, so I was
forced try cuts that the knife just plain wasn't enough tool to do and
ended up cutting myself regularly as a result.
With hammers it's harder--he's not strong enough to be accurate with a
hammer that will actually drive a nail of any size. The question is
whether to give him a hammer that he can control but that is going to
take a lot of pounding to drive anything bigger than a brad, or one
that can drive a fair sized nail if he chokes up on it but that is
going to have him missing more than he hits.
>You will also want some stiff paper or thin card for templates. Trace
>round the block onto the paper to help him with the maximum size then
>get your child to draw what shape he thinks the deck should be if he was
>on a bridge looking streight down at the ship, fold it down the centre
>line for symmetry,.cut out, and stickytape it to the block of balsa for
>your kid to colour round with a marker top and bottom.
>
>Then its HIS job to remove the wood he just coloured. Teach him to cut
>a little outside the line then take the rest off with a rasp. Then have
>him decide how much more he wants the bottom smaller than the deck, make
>another template (flip the old one over?) and repeat the cut
>out/mark/cut away process but this time at an angle rather than
>streight. Then its onto sanding it smooth.
>
>Details on deck will be made from smaller blocks pinned and glued into
>place (you want a supply of long brass panel pins here, steel *will*
>rust. Any 'oops' get fixed by you with scrap balsa, balsa sawdust and
>exterior wood glue. As long as you avoid chisels, planes, knives etc.
>there is very little risk of injury.
>
>A few days later after its been pushed around the house for a while, its
>time to discuss painting it. Basically, you want to get him to help
>apply a coat of low toxicity primer (balsa is far too porous and will be
>really difficult for him to paint otherwise) and you can improve the
>surface with a little filler and get a second coat of primer on after
>bedtime.
>
>Next day, its time to see if it floats near enough level, correcting any
>tilt by adding lead free solder (plumbing solder) let in to holes
>drilled for it then plugged with filler. Assist him in marking the
>waterline then get the boat dried off to paint. (an excuse to have to go
>out for a few hours is good here). He gets to paint it (ask the
>woodworkers for advice here) then a few days later when its properly
>dry, you spray it with clearcoat.
>
>
>I've read most of the other suggestions and thought back to my first
>boat model which was on display till I was grown up and my Grandmother
>died then heaven knows what happened to it. You need to keep it simple,
>(remove anything that isnt boat shaped) and safe, which means no edged
>or power tools yet. One *can * cut onself with a small hand saw, but he
>isn't going to do himself serious damage yet. Dont forget a dust mask
>each when sanding, good habits start young.
>
>Further projects could include a boat towed from the bank on a bridle
>like a kite, rubber band powered boats (you *will* need some sort of
>gearbox to match the rubber band untwisting to a model boat propeller)
>then an electric boat using parts guttted from a cheap RC toy.
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 19:57:25 GMT, B A R R Y <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ignoramus8098 wrote:
>>
>> I bought plastic models. They are very much NOT what I am looking
>> for. Way too detailed and impossible for little fingers to
>> assemble. What ends up happening is that I waste hours truing to glue
>> pieces of plastic together, and my son can do nothing. I was livid by
>> the time I finished a Titanic model (though I did not show it).
>
> Check out "Snap Tite" kits.
I checked a few, looks better than the stuff I bought before.
i
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:10:37 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> The attention span of a 5.5 year old is limited at best when it comes
>> to building things.
>>
>> Find a decent hobby shop, buy a SIMPLE model ship kit, and assemble it.
>
>One option is to "wing it" - make a solid pine hull using a bandsaw or
>belt sander. Do this ahead of time, as it's not something you want
>him to attempt.
No reason he can't saw it out with a jeweler's saw.
>You present the kid with the hull, and then ask hom
>what should we do next. You can add masts, sails, strong, life
>preservers, or whatever you want. Let him paint it and add whatever he
>likes on the deck. Maybe add an additional "layer" in the aft (IANAS)
>with ladders, the wheel for steering, portholes, lifeboats,
>etc. etc. etc. Suggest things to add if he's not sure.
>
>Let the kid decorate it. Buy some miniatures and let him paint them, and glue them on.
>
>And then - try floating the thing in a bathtub. It may not be stable -
>never tried. May have to add some weights to the bottom to keep it
>bottom heavy.
>
>The point is, once you make the hull - the rest of the design is left up to the kid.
>It lets him use his imagination - and he can be as silly as he wants to be, or as serious.
>He wants a four-poster bed on top, and a hot tub with a TV. Sure.
>
>It's unstructured, and open-ended. He might be done with it soon, or may keep going.
>Let him decide when it's done.
>
>If he had fun, then perhaps take him to a hobby shop and look at the
>easy models. See if he wants to do something more "sophisticated."
>
>You will have the memories of the first model, and every model he makes
>afterwords can only get better. I bet you will have memories of the "first model"
>for a long time - even if it's the only one he makes.
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 05:24:48 GMT, Harold and Susan Vordos <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> snip-----
>>
>> I kind of agree with TMT in that it should be kept in a spirit of
>> junkyard wars. Build something nice (meaning that something that
>> performs a useful function) from scrap.
>>
>> He recently made a "rocket" from a Pringles can and paper. We launch
>> it with my compressor. He is very happy about it. He even painted it
>> gold.
>>
>> i
>
> Exactly. A child of that age has no concept of proper construction------a
> cardboard rocket is probably every bit as desirable to him as a fine car
> would be to an adult. Way to go, Ig.
Yes. You got it. This is not an exercise in building beautiful
models. This is an exercise for the kid to learn the pleasures of
making stuff (as well as the value of patience and planning). I am
fully aware that the result will be far from beautiful.
If I wanted to own a beautiful model ship, I would buy something mass
produced in Chinese sweatshops using CNC, for $30 or so.
Functionality wise, what I want from this model is 1) to look like a
ship 2) be able to float in water 3) be able to survive exposure to
"life" for decades, in case if he wants to keep it as a childhood
memory.
i
"Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
I would suggest a kit like this
http://tinyurl.com/yvsj6j
it makes a nice display, or if you leave the stands off, would probably
float pretty well.
On 10 Feb 2007 03:35:21 -0800, "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10 Feb, 11:14, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Foam insulation - the rigid kind.
>>
>> Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
>> wire. You can get nichrome from a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
>> U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire.
>
>Don't carve foam insulation with a hot wire. The old polystyrene
>insulation was unpleasant for fumes, the modern isocyanate foams cut
>much better (no beads) but the fumes from those are really pretty
>toxic. As they don't break down into loose beads anyway, they can
>sand to shape very quickly.
Hm, didn't know that.
I've been using the blue foam that comes in 2x8 sheets - will have to
check if it is isocyanate. It cuts really nice with the wire (I built
a regulated V and A power supply to get the wire just right) so if it
is maybe I'll cut outside with me upwind...
Try to use those small flat wood ice cream sticks they sell by bags (use strait short
ones). Put them flat building the shape as by long flat bricks. White glue will do very
well. Lay out the skull profiles and may be build some simple staple. Some supervision
will help to maintain the shape (white glue easy to fix for quite a time). As the last
touch for ready scull some sandpaper or even sand belt will do.
Arcady
Ignoramus8098 wrote:
> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>
> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense cardboard"
> type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I would epoxy
> it.
>
> any suggestions.
>
> thanks
On 10 Feb 2007 03:35:21 -0800, "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 10 Feb, 11:14, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Foam insulation - the rigid kind.
>>
>> Cuts with a sharp knife (good lessons there for the kid) or a hot
>> wire. You can get nichrome from a hobby shop and make a simple wooden
>> U-shaped frame with a hook and spring to tension the wire.
>
>Don't carve foam insulation with a hot wire. The old polystyrene
>insulation was unpleasant for fumes, the modern isocyanate foams cut
>much better (no beads) but the fumes from those are really pretty
>toxic. As they don't break down into loose beads anyway, they can
>sand to shape very quickly.
>
>A bread knife with a wiggly edge, not fine serrations, is the best
>tool for slabbing out blanks.
Cheap electric carving knife from the Goodwill/thrift stores work very
well
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Thanks for the criticism Mr Clarke, its always usefull to have another
well thought out perspective.
J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:19:56 +0000, Ian Malcolm
> <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
>>
>>Next you want a large block of balsa wood. I see its possible to get
>>2"x4" a foot long for about $6 or so. You *really* *really* want balsa
>>wood because its so soft its easy to work with hand tools which means
>>far far more of it will be his project rather than Daddy's project. A
>>selection of smaller pieces as well for the superstructure and some pine
>>dowels for masts etc. should also be got.
>
>
> I'm not sure he really wants balsa. The stuff is easy to cut but it's
> hard to cut _precisely_. It's so soft that unless the knife is
> absoluely razor sharp it crushes instead of cutting. Doesn't saw very
> well either, tends to clog up the saw teeth with fuzz. It's main
> strength is light weight, not workability. Basswood might be a better
> bet.
OTOH a decent *sharp* saw will cut it well enough. We arent trying for
accuracy here, all the fine shaping will be done with 40 grit sandpaper
glued to a stick. If he wants to get it flatter than he can cut it, Iggy
should tape a sheet of 40 grit down on a board with plenty of double
sided tape and show him how to lap the work against a flat surface. We
are'nt trying for fine woodworking here and Iggy is going to be
'improving' it a little in the evenings anyway. My childhood experience
with large balsa blocks was they were quite a bit harder than the thin
sections. I guess they select the lightest wood for the model airplane
stuff and the rest is cut for modelmaking. IMHO he should work his way
up onto tougher woods as his desire for strength and accuracy inmroves.
>
>
>>It would be a good idea to get a small saw and hammer, You may need to
>>take a few inches off the handle for the hammer so it balances in a
>>kid's hand. These will be *his* tools and you ask before YOU borrow
>>them. (with what you have around the place, teaching respect for other
>>peoples tools ASAP would be smart)
>
>
> A caution--there is a tendency to give kids cheap tools. Resist that
> temptation. Kids aren't very strong and they aren't necessarily all
> that coordinated--you don't want them fighting a tool that doesn't
> work very well besides.
AMEN. *GOOD* tools, preferably good enough so you *will* be asking him
if you can borrow them sometimes.
> If you give him a saw make sure it's a saw
> that actually _saws_ without much force. A jeweler's saw or fretsaw
> might be a good bet--they aren't horribly expensive, they cut just
> about anything, downside is that the blades are very fragile--also
> it's a very narrow blade so learning to cut straight can be a problem.
Decent fretsaw and a *good* supply of a selection of blades.
> In a wide bladed saw bite the bullet and spend the 35 bucks for a 6
> inch dozuki. He'll see how a saw is _supposed_ to work.
One of my favorite small saws is a 6" power saw blade mounted to a small
pear-shaped boxwood handle I had lying around. I am not saying its
anywhere near equal to the japanese saws but it cuts better and is
handier than anything else I've seen at the budget to middling end of
the market, I doubt I've got more than £5 and an hours work invested in
it but I'd be seriously upset if it went walkabout. It would be perfect
for cutting balsa. I tend to use it for anything from rigid foam, via
soft and hardwoods to tufnol laminate.
>
> My parents were weird--they turned me loose with an Ex-acto knife at
> an early age but wouldn't spring for the jeweler's saw, so I was
> forced try cuts that the knife just plain wasn't enough tool to do and
> ended up cutting myself regularly as a result.
7 is about the right age to introduce a bright kid to sharp knives,
chisels etc and also a decent hand drill. Power tools even closely
supervised should wait till they've got a good safety record with sharp
edged tools.
> With hammers it's harder--he's not strong enough to be accurate with a
> hammer that will actually drive a nail of any size. The question is
> whether to give him a hammer that he can control but that is going to
> take a lot of pounding to drive anything bigger than a brad, or one
> that can drive a fair sized nail if he chokes up on it but that is
> going to have him missing more than he hits.
Control first. Bending nails and beating the wood to death is
*frustrating*. I was hammering whatever nails I could scrounge off my
dad into offcuts from an early age. Same nails would get extracted, I'd
hammer them streight again and knock them into another offcut. If Iggy
sticks to balsawood etc. this year, the kid wont need to drive big nails
till he's accurate with a light hammer.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- &
[dot]=.
*Warning* SPAM TRAP set in header, Use email address in sig. if you must.
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 20:44:43 GMT, Jerry <[email protected]> wrote:
> Does he expect the play with the model on the local lake, river,
> waterbut? be a shame making a kit that didn't float. you might be better
> off with a some blocks of wood and a few simple hand tools for the first
> one....
I think that my plan with plywood bulkheads is a sensible one. It will
float with enough epoxying and a sensible sized keel. If the deck is
removable, which seems to make sense, it can be later enhanced with
LEDs etc. I will try to make it big enough so that it can be messed
with later (1.5 ft or so).
i
Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> writes:
> The attention span of a 5.5 year old is limited at best when it comes
> to building things.
>
> Find a decent hobby shop, buy a SIMPLE model ship kit, and assemble it.
One option is to "wing it" - make a solid pine hull using a bandsaw or
belt sander. Do this ahead of time, as it's not something you want
him to attempt. You present the kid with the hull, and then ask hom
what should we do next. You can add masts, sails, strong, life
preservers, or whatever you want. Let him paint it and add whatever he
likes on the deck. Maybe add an additional "layer" in the aft (IANAS)
with ladders, the wheel for steering, portholes, lifeboats,
etc. etc. etc. Suggest things to add if he's not sure.
Let the kid decorate it. Buy some miniatures and let him paint them, and glue them on.
And then - try floating the thing in a bathtub. It may not be stable -
never tried. May have to add some weights to the bottom to keep it
bottom heavy.
The point is, once you make the hull - the rest of the design is left up to the kid.
It lets him use his imagination - and he can be as silly as he wants to be, or as serious.
He wants a four-poster bed on top, and a hot tub with a TV. Sure.
It's unstructured, and open-ended. He might be done with it soon, or may keep going.
Let him decide when it's done.
If he had fun, then perhaps take him to a hobby shop and look at the
easy models. See if he wants to do something more "sophisticated."
You will have the memories of the first model, and every model he makes
afterwords can only get better. I bet you will have memories of the "first model"
for a long time - even if it's the only one he makes.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
"Tom S" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Ignoramus8098" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> My 5.5 year old son wants to make a model ship. I made something with
>> my dad when I was about same age, from plywood, and he wants to have
>> his own. I do not want to get into "show quality" esoteric stuff. I
>> want to have a project where he can participate meaningfully. Any
>> suggestions as to the choice of materials etc.
>>
>> Ideally, I am hoping to be able to find some sort of "dense
>> cardboard" type material that is easy to work with, etc. In the end I
>> would epoxy it.
>>
>> any suggestions.
>>
>> thanks
>
> I would suggest a kit like this
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yvsj6j
>
>
> it makes a nice display, or if you leave the stands off, would
> probably float pretty well.
>
>
>
For a 5 year old?! I buggered up that one when I was 35.