Bike wheel for a bandsaw..

On Jul 14, 6:35 am, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
> are very expensive (=A3100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
> spin round when required, after all.
>
> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> Any thoughts? experience?

I've seen plywood used. Laminate 2 pieces of 3/4" and install the
hub. Cut out the wheel with a router on a trammel arm. True
to the last hair of a thousandth of an inch with a scraper
or file held against the wheel while turning it (by hand)
after installing the wheel in the frame. Glue on a tire, and
she's ready to go.

Balanced wheels turn smoother. Install nuts and bolts
where needed to add weight and reinforce the lamination.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
>are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
>wheel could be used?

Yes, however a good quality bike wheel, well built on a decent hub, will
cost more than a bandsaw wheel. A junkyard bike wheel, with poor quality
spokes and no tension, won't do it.

If you really care, go over to rec.bikes.tech and ask Jobst Brandt, the
guy who wrote the book (literally) on bike wheel theory. If you just
want to tweak up a wheel to run true, go to the late, great Sheldon
Brown's website and read the step-by-step instructions.

--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:43:44 -0700, mac davis
<[email protected]> wrote:

>No math to prove myself right or wrong, but it seems that putting weight on a
>wheel and tire mounted on a bike is not the same force/pressure as putting a
>steel band around 1/2 of it and tightening it until the blade "pings"?

Yes, it's quite different. The axle (fixed) on a bandsaw wheel is
cantilevered and "overhung", that on a bike is supported from both sides
by the fork. This also means that a bike's load-bearing axle is
particularly short - the bearings are mounted at the outer ends of the
axle. Where they're mounted away from this, towards the middle of the
axles (old 7-speed screw-on rear blocks) the axles started to break.
Later designs (Shimano cassettes) moved the bearings back out again and
had reliable axles again.

A rare exception to this would be a Mike Burrows (e.g. Adam
Hart-Davies') or a Canondale "Lefty" with a single-sided fork and an
overhung front axle.

As far as the _wheel_ goes though, bandsaw tensions aren't a problem for
a decent bike wheel. The impact loading is also _much_ reduced.


A workshop I'm vaguely associated with has an old Victorian multi-tool
machine that I restored - planer (removed), horizontal borer and
bandsaw. The bandsaw wheels were rolled iron hoops (18" - 20" ish AFAIR)
on cast iron hubs. As the original spokes looked dubious, we replaced
these with bike-spoke tech, all according to Jobst's book. Works fine.


--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:18:10 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (J.
Cochran) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
>Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>The crown is important. The blade tracks to the usable portion of
>>each wheel primarily by trying to climb the crown to the apex but
>>being just on the edge of being able to do so. Without the crown the
>>blade just keeps going in the direction it is heading, off the edge of
>>the wheel.
>
>Actually, the blade does climb to the apex. And whenever the blade
>is pushed off the apex, the crown causes the blade to tilt slightly
>and climb right back to the apex.

The blade running exactly on the center and top of the crown on both
wheels is more a matter of random chance than design. When
manufactured there is a tolerance zone actually measured with a gage
when the machine is "tracked" on the assembly line. If the blade is
within the gage limits on both wheels, that means that the machine
will properly track the largest blade the the machine is designed for.

It is not uncommon for the blade to run slightly off center on both
wheels on opposite sides when the blade is properly tracking.

My comments are on the manufacture of Delta domestically produced
units, I'm not familiar with others but think most are done in the
same manner.

Frank

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:34:20 -0500, Frank Boettcher wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:

>>I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.

>
> The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. You can
> do this?

To be honest, I don't know. *But*.. what I was planning to do was use two-
part epoxy to fill the rim in and to overflowing, then sand it to either
flat with a tyre on or crowned if it's soft enough to cope with the teeth.

TBH making a plywood wheel is looking easier, especially since I still
have the useable axle and bearings from the original wheel.

On Jul 14, 6:35=A0am, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
> are very expensive (=A3100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
> spin round when required, after all.
>
> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> Any thoughts? experience?

A rule of thumb, here in the colonies, is when a repair costs half or
more of replacement cost, its time to purchase a new tool.
Joe G

mac pointed out that there's more to a bandsaw - that won't try
and maim or kill you - than two wheels and a bandsaw blade. I
believe the phrase Penny Wise, Pound Foolish came from your side
of The Pond. Unless you have plenty of spare time and are sure
you can get Express Service at the nearest emergency room, I
suggest you pass on trying the Jerry Rig a bike wheel.

Perhaps a ply or MDF wheel?

charlie b

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:29:18 -0700, Robatoy wrote:

> An old flywheel off a small block GM could work. A chisel and a firm
> blow to the ring gear and it will come off (Safety goggles etc). I made
> a set of free-weights for myself out of those.
>
> I also think that bicycle wheels are a lot tougher than meets the eye. I
> think the width at the hub might cause you grief. Also, a 12-inch wheel
> isn't exactly designed to handle big weights...unless little 4 -year-old
> Bubba weighs in at 150 pounds, which with today's diets could be a
> design parameter.

That's true enough.. I know when my kids were small I could ride their
bike without the wheels folding up, and I'm around 200lbs. I think the
smaller wheels are actually tougher than the larger sizes.

Small block GMs aren't so common this side of the Atlantic (I'm in the
UK) but I see what you're getting at. It's arranging the axle that gets
tricky then, without a decent metalworking lathe.

I might try adding a few layers of parcel strapping for tension - that
can be made *very* tight, although possibly not smooth enough.

A cast iron pulley would probably be the best choice but with the price
of metal going up like it has done most of the scrapyards round here have
been shipped lock, stock and barrel to the Far East :-(

On Jul 14, 12:08=A0pm, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:29:18 -0700, Robatoy wrote:
> > An old flywheel off a small block GM could work. A chisel and a firm
> > blow to the ring gear and it will come off (Safety goggles etc). I made
> > a set of free-weights for myself out of those.
>
> > I also think that bicycle wheels are a lot tougher than meets the eye. =
I
> > think the width at the hub might cause you grief. Also, a 12-inch wheel
> > isn't exactly designed to handle big weights...unless little 4 -year-ol=
d
> > Bubba weighs in at 150 pounds, which with today's diets could be a
> > design parameter.
>
> That's true enough.. I know when my kids were small I could ride their
> bike without the wheels folding up, and I'm around 200lbs. I think the
> smaller wheels are actually tougher than the larger sizes.
>

Just came to me... one thing that makes a bicycle wheel tough, is the
fact that the shaft is supported on both sides. In a band-saw, the
shaft is held by one end only. That can be compensated by a bigger
diameter shaft, but in a bicycle wheel, the hub diameter is limited.

(One of my ex's cheesecakes would make a nice wheel... but then we're
back to a metal lathing again...)

I think you are courting disaster if you try to Rube Goldberg this tool.
If you can't afford to get the real and correct part, then you obviously
can't afford to own and use the tool. You should just sell it and go
watch TV.


Frank Boettcher wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
> .
>> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>>
>
>> Any thoughts? experience?
>
>
> Deleted the portions that I'llnot comment on.
>
> The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. You
> can do this?
>
> Frank

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:10:32 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
wrote:

>PCPaul wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
>> are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
>> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
>> spin round when required, after all.
>>
>> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>>
>> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
>> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>>
>> Any thoughts? experience?
>
>No experience but I'd make one out of plywood before rigging up a
>bicycle wheel.


I'd make it from baltic birch ply - or in a pinch from MDF, and put a
coat of West Epoxy on to seal it against moisture etc.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Why not look at Grainger or McMaster Carr?

They have a bunch of varied size rigid pulley type wheels for a fraction of
what you are looking at doing.

I don't think a bike wheel will hold the tension you need to run a bandsaw
blade true.





"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
>>are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
>>wheel could be used?
>
> Yes, however a good quality bike wheel, well built on a decent hub, will
> cost more than a bandsaw wheel. A junkyard bike wheel, with poor quality
> spokes and no tension, won't do it.
>
> If you really care, go over to rec.bikes.tech and ask Jobst Brandt, the
> guy who wrote the book (literally) on bike wheel theory. If you just
> want to tweak up a wheel to run true, go to the late, great Sheldon
> Brown's website and read the step-by-step instructions.
>
> --
> Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:27:37 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:57:07 +0000, Jay R wrote:
>
>> Why not look at Grainger or McMaster Carr?
>>
>> They have a bunch of varied size rigid pulley type wheels for a fraction
>> of what you are looking at doing.
>>
>
>I would, but I'm in the UK. And we don't seem to have places that sell
>general engineering stuff to the public (or for sane prices)..
>
>Unless anybody knows different? (I'm near Gloucester if that helps)
>
>> I don't think a bike wheel will hold the tension you need to run a
>> bandsaw blade true.
>
>Well I know a 12" kids bike wheel can hold my weight and I'm 200lbs, so
>it's in the ballpark for 1/4" blades. As others have said though, the
>bearings might not last too long...

No math to prove myself right or wrong, but it seems that putting weight on a
wheel and tire mounted on a bike is not the same force/pressure as putting a
steel band around 1/2 of it and tightening it until the blade "pings"?

Still sort of downward force, I guess, but different tension/angles?

Can you tell that I failed math?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 07:55:30 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> PCPaul wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM
>> spares are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12"
>> bicycle wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the
>> blade and spin round when required, after all.
>>
>> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>>
>> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
>> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>>
>> Any thoughts? experience?
>
> I can think of a number of objections on the basis of theory, but not
> having tried this and being too lazy to do the calculations, I don't
> know if they have any validity. If the bicycle wheel is paid for and
> fits the shaft, I'd say try it, from a distance. If it holds together
> let us know how it worked out. I wouldn't go out and buy a bicycle
> wheel though.

Good answer ;-)

I'd obviously much prefer to use the real thing, but paying £100+ for an
alloy wheel - no tyre, no bearing, no axle! strikes me as ridiculous.

If I find a suitable wheel, I'll report back. I have other irons in the
fire too, so hopefully it may not be needed...

Frank Boettcher wrote:

> The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. You
> can do this?

Didn't Inca bandsaws have flat wheels? IIRC they recommended running
with the teeth hanging off the edge.

Chris

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:57:07 +0000, Jay R wrote:

> Why not look at Grainger or McMaster Carr?
>
> They have a bunch of varied size rigid pulley type wheels for a fraction
> of what you are looking at doing.
>

I would, but I'm in the UK. And we don't seem to have places that sell
general engineering stuff to the public (or for sane prices)..

Unless anybody knows different? (I'm near Gloucester if that helps)

> I don't think a bike wheel will hold the tension you need to run a
> bandsaw blade true.

Well I know a 12" kids bike wheel can hold my weight and I'm 200lbs, so
it's in the ballpark for 1/4" blades. As others have said though, the
bearings might not last too long...

"PCPaul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
> are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
> spin round when required, after all.
>
> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> Any thoughts? experience?
>

I'm betting that if the bicycle wheel was substantial enough that you would
see more similar type wheels being used. Because of the constant side load
tension I'm betting that spoke tension will be a nightmare and ever
changing. I seriously doubt that the bearings are up to the task either.

On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:43:44 -0700, mac davis wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:27:37 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:57:07 +0000, Jay R wrote:
>>
>>> Why not look at Grainger or McMaster Carr?
>>>
>>> They have a bunch of varied size rigid pulley type wheels for a
>>> fraction of what you are looking at doing.
>>>
>>>
>>I would, but I'm in the UK. And we don't seem to have places that sell
>>general engineering stuff to the public (or for sane prices)..
>>
>>Unless anybody knows different? (I'm near Gloucester if that helps)
>>
>>> I don't think a bike wheel will hold the tension you need to run a
>>> bandsaw blade true.
>>
>>Well I know a 12" kids bike wheel can hold my weight and I'm 200lbs, so
>>it's in the ballpark for 1/4" blades. As others have said though, the
>>bearings might not last too long...
>
> No math to prove myself right or wrong, but it seems that putting weight
> on a wheel and tire mounted on a bike is not the same force/pressure as
> putting a steel band around 1/2 of it and tightening it until the blade
> "pings"?
>
> Still sort of downward force, I guess, but different tension/angles?
>
> Can you tell that I failed math?

Well as far as I can see, the force at any particular point should be
towards the centre - otherwise the blade wouldn't be tightly wrapped onto
the wheel...

...and bike wheels are designed to handle the full load (say 200lbs) on
*one* point in contact with the ground - so having the same load spread
over half the wheel ought to be better.

I think.

:-)

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 02:44:45 +0000, Lew Hodgett wrote:

> "Jack Stein" wrote:
>
>> If they supplied just the bearings would you have any qualms making the
>> wheels out of plywood?
>
> For me, NBD, but see below.
>
> If you are going to use plywood as a core, then you want to totally
> encapsulate it with epoxy and fiber glass.
>
> The plywood is now totally sealed, and you are no longer dealing with
> wood other than as a core material.
>

<Snip complete howto>

> As I said, straight forward construction, just a PITA to do it.


Yes, but... given that this bandsaw will be sat in the same place where I
store my wood, and isn't subject to the raw heat of Arizona or the bitter
cold of Alaska, why *shouldn't* I just take the much simpler route of
just making it direct from plywood and varnishing it?

I can that your route makes it virtually indestructible and it will last
forever, but if it's 1/4 of the work to make it from raw ply then it can
wear out four times before I break even...

"Jack Stein" wrote:

> Out of curiosity, why do you need fiberglass side walls?

It simplifies construction.


> I often thought of building one of those plywood band saws but since
> I already have a good band saw, I probably won't. I'd like to have
> a giant resaw band saw, dedicated to resawing, but...

If you are referring to the kit from Gilliom Mfg, I built that saw.

Gilliom supplies die cast 18" dia wheels as part of the kit.


--
Lew Hodgett
Box 2302
Whittier, CA, 90610-2302
E-Mail: [email protected]

PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Hi,
>
> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it.

What's wrong with the original wheel? Is there no way it could be bodged
up into working again?

The bicycle wheel idea sounds interesting if you have the time to play with
it, and you're not expecting too much. I'd love to hear how it turns out.
I've been wanting to build my own bandsay and this might be good way to
come up with some of the required parts.



--
sm@ug dot ichorfang
at gmail dot com

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:55:05 -0500, mapdude wrote:

> I think you are courting disaster if you try to Rube Goldberg this tool.
> If you can't afford to get the real and correct part, then you obviously
> can't afford to own and use the tool. You should just sell it and go
> watch TV.
>

Thank you for your input.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Jack Stein" wrote:
>
>> Out of curiosity, why do you need fiberglass side walls?
>
> It simplifies construction.


OK, but seems just the opposite to me.


>> I often thought of building one of those plywood band saws but since
>> I already have a good band saw, I probably won't. I'd like to have
>> a giant resaw band saw, dedicated to resawing, but...

> If you are referring to the kit from Gilliom Mfg, I built that saw.

Yes, something like that. Like Mac though, for me it's down the
priority list enough I'll never get to it. I'd have a better chance of
stumbling over a nice used one than building one I guess.

> Gilliom supplies die cast 18" dia wheels as part of the kit.

If they supplied just the bearings would you have any qualms making the
wheels out of plywood? I still think plain plywood would be simpler
than building high speed radial fans for dust collectors that many seem
to have built out of plywood. Even I have some reservations about that,
but I'd do it if I had to...

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:41:33 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:34:20 -0500, Frank Boettcher wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
>>
>> The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. You can
>> do this?
>
>To be honest, I don't know. *But*.. what I was planning to do was use two-
>part epoxy to fill the rim in and to overflowing, then sand it to either
>flat with a tyre on or crowned if it's soft enough to cope with the teeth.
>
>TBH making a plywood wheel is looking easier, especially since I still
>have the useable axle and bearings from the original wheel.
>

The crown is important. The blade tracks to the usable portion of
each wheel primarily by trying to climb the crown to the apex but
being just on the edge of being able to do so. Without the crown the
blade just keeps going in the direction it is heading, off the edge of
the wheel.

Frank

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:52:06 -0700, charlieb wrote:

> mac pointed out that there's more to a bandsaw - that won't try and maim
> or kill you - than two wheels and a bandsaw blade. I believe the phrase
> Penny Wise, Pound Foolish came from your side of The Pond. Unless you
> have plenty of spare time and are sure you can get Express Service at
> the nearest emergency room, I suggest you pass on trying the Jerry Rig a
> bike wheel.
>
> Perhaps a ply or MDF wheel?

Ply or something is also on the cards. And I currently have feelers out
to get an alloy disc turned to the right size thanks to a friend at a
small engineering company but he has to wait for the right sized 'scrap'
to be available ;-)

The bike wheel idea is looking a bit dodgy though, not due to the
pressure but due to the hub/bearings, as has been mentioned.

It's a nice bandsaw - an Elu with an induction motor, decent fence etc..
the only new saws in my price range would be cheap chinese stuff.

Oh, and the Elu was free.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT), GROVER
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Jul 14, 6:35 am, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
>> are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
>> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
>> spin round when required, after all.
>>
>> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>>
>> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
>> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>>
>> Any thoughts? experience?
>
>A rule of thumb, here in the colonies, is when a repair costs half or
>more of replacement cost, its time to purchase a new tool.
>Joe G
Unless said replacement tool is a Chineses "kit tool" that you are
going to have to take apart amd modify extensively to make it accurate
and reliable.

If I can fix a quality NorthAmerican or western european tool for less
than 90% of the cost of a peice of Chuinese crap, I'll fix it.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"PCPaul" wrote:

> Yes, but... given that this bandsaw will be sat in the same place
> where I
> store my wood, and isn't subject to the raw heat of Arizona or the
> bitter
> cold of Alaska, why *shouldn't* I just take the much simpler route
> of
> just making it direct from plywood and varnishing it?

Knock yourself out.

Lew

On Jul 16, 4:41=A0pm, Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Frank Boettcher wrote:
> > The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. =A0You
> > can do this?
>
> Didn't Inca bandsaws have flat wheels? =A0IIRC they recommended running
> with the teeth hanging off the edge.
>
> Chris

That is correct. Inca didn't think like other people on anything. I
quite liked their reasoning on a lot of issues (tilting table on a TS
for instance is kinda nice for small furniture parts). T

On Jul 14, 5:35=A0am, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
> are very expensive (=A3100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
> spin round when required, after all.
>
> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> Any thoughts? experience?

No experience, but my thought is that the reason they went from iron
wheels to aluminum was price, not because less mass is better. More
mass in the wheels means better cutting for thicker stuff. And I know
that bike wheels depend on the inflated tire for a great deal of their
cohesiveness. After riding for a half mile on a flat tire, I can
attest to that. :-)

If you could somehow add a few pounds to the bike wheel it might help
but otherwise, assuming it didn't fly apart as soon as it got going,
it would bog down in half-inch stock.

Reminds me of a Don Weber article in a back issue of PopWood, that
used a bike ratchet, chain, and a spring to make a simple treadle-type
late for third world woodworkers. Good article. But while they used
parts from old bikes, they didn't use wheels.

I'd look for old flywheels off of junk farm equipment before I'd think
of bike wheels.

On Jul 14, 4:26=A0pm, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT), GROVER
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Jul 14, 6:35=A0am, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spa=
res
> >> are very expensive (=A3100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycl=
e
> >> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade a=
nd
> >> spin round when required, after all.
>
> >> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> >> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
> >> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> >> Any thoughts? experience?
>
> >A rule of thumb, here in the colonies, is when a repair costs half or
> >more of replacement cost, its time to purchase a new tool.
> >Joe G
>
> =A0Unless said replacement tool is a Chineses "kit tool" that you are
> going to have to take apart amd modify extensively to make it accurate
> and reliable.
>
> If I can fix a quality NorthAmerican or western european tool for less
> than 90% of the cost of a peice of Chuinese crap, I'll fix it.


Exactly my sentiments.This is starting to sound like: "Oh nooo, I need
a wristband for my Rolex!! Can I use rope??"

Just kidding PCPaul.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
>are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
>wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
>spin round when required, after all.
>
>I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
>It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
>the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
>Any thoughts? experience?

No experience, but sort of a thought...
BE FRIGGIN' CAREFUL!!

Yes, it might work...
You might also use a strip of rags for a belt and weld old hack saw blades
together for the blade..
Will it be safe? Will you be able to adjust blade tension and tracking
correctly?

Will the bike wheel fit inside the case and offer some protection, or does it
not have a cover?
I have no idea what the pound/USD conversion rate is, but I'm guessing that 100
to 200 is a lot of cash?
In the US, you can buy a new 14" bandsaw for a bit over $300...
How does that convert to pounds?

In some cases with tools, a new one can cost less than a few parts..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Jul 14, 10:30=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 5:35=A0am, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spar=
es
> > are very expensive (=A3100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
> > wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade an=
d
> > spin round when required, after all.
>
> > I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> > It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
> > the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> > Any thoughts? experience?
>
> No experience, but my thought is that the reason they went from iron
> wheels to aluminum was price, not because less mass is better. More
> mass in the wheels means better cutting for thicker stuff. And I know
> that bike wheels depend on the inflated tire for a great deal of their
> cohesiveness. After riding for a half mile on a flat tire, I can
> attest to that. :-)
>
> If you could somehow add a few pounds to the bike wheel it might help
> but otherwise, assuming it didn't fly apart as soon as it got going,
> it would bog down in half-inch stock.
>
> Reminds me of a Don Weber article in a back issue of PopWood, that
> used a bike ratchet, chain, and a spring to make a simple treadle-type
> late for third world woodworkers. Good article. But while they used
> parts from old bikes, they didn't use wheels.
>
> I'd look for old flywheels off of junk farm equipment before I'd think
> of bike wheels.

An old flywheel off a small block GM could work. A chisel and a firm
blow to the ring gear and it will come off (Safety goggles etc). I
made a set of free-weights for myself out of those.

I also think that bicycle wheels are a lot tougher than meets the eye.
I think the width at the hub might cause you grief.
Also, a 12-inch wheel isn't exactly designed to handle big
weights...unless little 4 -year-old Bubba weighs in at 150 pounds,
which with today's diets could be a design parameter.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:41:11 -0600, Chris Friesen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Frank Boettcher wrote:
>
>> The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. You
>> can do this?
>
>Didn't Inca bandsaws have flat wheels? IIRC they recommended running
>with the teeth hanging off the edge.
>
>Chris

I don't know.

Frank

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 06:55:05 -0500, mapdude <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I think you are courting disaster if you try to Rube Goldberg this tool.
>If you can't afford to get the real and correct part, then you obviously
>can't afford to own and use the tool. You should just sell it and go
>watch TV.
>
>
>Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>> .
>>> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>>>
>>
>>> Any thoughts? experience?
>>
>>
>> Deleted the portions that I'llnot comment on.
>>
>> The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. You
>> can do this?
>>
>> Frank
If it had a plastic wheel to start with, any good handiman should be
able to produce something AS good as the original - and as safe.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

PCPaul wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM
> spares are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12"
> bicycle wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of
> the blade and spin round when required, after all.
>
> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't
> need
> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> Any thoughts? experience?

I can think of a number of objections on the basis of theory, but not
having tried this and being too lazy to do the calculations, I don't
know if they have any validity. If the bicycle wheel is paid for and
fits the shaft, I'd say try it, from a distance. If it holds together
let us know how it worked out. I wouldn't go out and buy a bicycle
wheel though.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

PCPaul wrote:
...

> Good answer ;-)
>
> I'd obviously much prefer to use the real thing, but paying £100+ for an
> alloy wheel - no tyre, no bearing, no axle! strikes me as ridiculous.
...

As another poster noted, the bicycle wheel relies on the (inflated) tire
for much of it's integrity under load.

I think the only way you could make it work would be to have a tensioned
banding around the rim to serve the purpose--if you could arrange that
w/ sufficient stiffness and tension, you might have a chance.

In essence you would need a 12" hose clamp of the right width w/ the
tightening mechanism flush w/ the outer edge...ottomh, I'm not sure how
one would arrange that easily... :)

--

In article <[email protected]>,
Frank Boettcher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>The crown is important. The blade tracks to the usable portion of
>each wheel primarily by trying to climb the crown to the apex but
>being just on the edge of being able to do so. Without the crown the
>blade just keeps going in the direction it is heading, off the edge of
>the wheel.

Actually, the blade does climb to the apex. And whenever the blade
is pushed off the apex, the crown causes the blade to tilt slightly
and climb right back to the apex.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:35:51 GMT, PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote:

>Hi,
>
.
>
>I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>

>Any thoughts? experience?


Deleted the portions that I'llnot comment on.

The consistent tracking of a blade relies on a crowned surface. You
can do this?

Frank

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 21:08:32 +0000, Smaug Ichorfang wrote:

> PCPaul <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it.
>
> What's wrong with the original wheel? Is there no way it could be
> bodged up into working again?
>
> The bicycle wheel idea sounds interesting if you have the time to play
> with it, and you're not expecting too much. I'd love to hear how it
> turns out. I've been wanting to build my own bandsay and this might be
> good way to come up with some of the required parts.

The original wheel was plastic and had a crack through the centre. The
bandsaw was used with it like that until it got so worn the blade
wouldn't track (not by me).

So the whole centre of the wheel (where the bearings were a press fit) is
effectively gone.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:20:12 -0400, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>
>
>I often thought of building one of those plywood band saws but since I
>already have a good band saw, I probably won't. I'd like to have a
>giant resaw band saw, dedicated to resawing, but...

Yep.. my thought, also..

I decided that if I ever did that much resawing, it would be fun to build a
horizontal BS like a metal cutting one... Sort of like a big-assed chop saw but
with a BS blade and wheels..

The priority is so far down the list that I've never even drawn one.. lol


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[email protected] wrote:

> And I know
> that bike wheels depend on the inflated tire for a great deal of their
> cohesiveness. After riding for a half mile on a flat tire, I can
> attest to that. :-)

I'll have to disagree with you on this. The inflated tire protects the
rim from road damage, but does absolutely nothing for the mechanical
integrity of the wheel. (And with clinchers, it can end up with
basically zero net force on the rim, anyways.)

The spoked bicycle wheel has been analyzed thoroughly from an
engineering point of view (complete with finite element analysis) by
Jobst Brandt in his book "The Bicycle Wheel". The spokes are tension
elements, while the rim is in compression. Inflating a tire outside the
rim can add some additional forces, but they are fairly minor compared
the tension applied by the spokes.

Chris

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:17:16 -0700, Father Haskell wrote:

>
> I've seen plywood used. Laminate 2 pieces of 3/4" and install the hub.
> Cut out the wheel with a router on a trammel arm. True to the last hair
> of a thousandth of an inch with a scraper or file held against the wheel
> while turning it (by hand) after installing the wheel in the frame.

Dial-gauge true, or is that pointless with wood? (I expect so)

> Glue on a tire, and she's ready to go.

How much do tyres stretch - i.e. do I make it 12" diameter exactly for a
12" tyre, or slightly under, or what?

> Balanced wheels turn smoother. Install nuts and bolts where needed to
> add weight and reinforce the lamination.

Should be simple enough... although it seems like it would be easier to
balance it by drilling holes or adding screws...

[email protected] wrote:
>
>
> No experience, but my thought is that the reason they went from iron
> wheels to aluminum was price, not because less mass is better. More
> mass in the wheels means better cutting for thicker stuff.

Right!

> And I know
> that bike wheels depend on the inflated tire for a great deal of their
> cohesiveness. After riding for a half mile on a flat tire, I can
> attest to that. :-)

Actually, the tire simply protects the wheel from direct impact damage.
With no air, you most likely collected impact damage to a marginally
built wheel. Once the rim is bent, the spoke tension gets tossed all
over the place, allowing the wheel to quickly disintegrate. The
inflated tire doesn't really add much strength.

If you ever saw what a good wheel builder can do to a correctly built
wheel, to check the durability with no tire installed, you'd surely be
impressed.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> RE: Subject
>
> The Good news:
> It would be a rather straight forward procedure to construct a wheel using a
> plywood core, fiberglass side walls and tread along with the reuse of the
> existing spindle.

Out of curiosity, why do you need fiberglass side walls?

I know people make high speed dust collector fans out of plywood, I
would think a slow speed band saw wheel would hold up just fine,
probably a lot better than the plastic wheels he currently has?

> The Bad news:
>
> It is a VERY time consuming task.
>
> Bottom Line....................................
>
> I know how to do it but wouldn't.

I often thought of building one of those plywood band saws but since I
already have a good band saw, I probably won't. I'd like to have a
giant resaw band saw, dedicated to resawing, but...

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

RE: Subject

The Good news:
It would be a rather straight forward procedure to construct a wheel using a
plywood core, fiberglass side walls and tread along with the reuse of the
existing spindle.

The Bad news:

It is a VERY time consuming task.

Bottom Line....................................

I know how to do it but wouldn't.

Led

PCPaul wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm repairing a two wheel bandsaw and need a top wheel for it. OEM spares
> are very expensive (£100+, ~$200) so I was wondering if a 12" bicycle
> wheel could be used? It only needs to take the pressure of the blade and
> spin round when required, after all.
>
> I can easily rig up a surface for the blade to ride on.
>
> It's a small bandsaw and I only really use 1/4" blades so I don't need
> the mega-tension on it you'd need for a 3/4" resaw blade.
>
> Any thoughts? experience?

No experience but I'd make one out of plywood before rigging up a
bicycle wheel.

--
Jack
http://jbstein.com

"Jack Stein" wrote:

> If they supplied just the bearings would you have any qualms making
> the wheels out of plywood?

For me, NBD, but see below.

If you are going to use plywood as a core, then you want to totally
encapsulate it with epoxy and fiber glass.

The plywood is now totally sealed, and you are no longer dealing with
wood other than as a core material.

If you want to make an 18" wheel, laminate a couple of 19" dia pieces
of 12mm, 4 ply, CDX plywood together with some TiteBond II.

(You can use deck screws as clamps, just sand down the tips when
finished and leave them installed)

When cured, drill a centered thru hole with a hole saw that is 2-3
times the dia of the axle.

(My guess is that 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 would be about right.)

Close the bottom of the hole with masking tape, lay flat on table, and
pour in about 1/2" of micro-balloon thickened fairing putty and let
cure over night.

Next day, remove tape, mix more thickened putty, and fill both sides
proud using a putty knife or equal to apply.

When cured, sand putty smooth on both sides, then apply a layer of
17OZ, double bias glass on top side and let cure.

Next day, glass other side.

When both sides are cured, sand glass with some 60 grit to remove any
drips.and overlaps around outer circle edges.

Center drill a thru hole for the axle.

Notice that you have just drilled thru glass and putty, but the
plywood is still sealed.

Using a router with a 1/2" carbide straight bit and a radius jig, trim
wheel to 18" finish dia.

(Buy a new, low cost carbide blade, use it, then toss it because the
fiberglass will have destroyed it.)

Glass the tread with some 6 oz, glass tape, 2" max width.

Glass 2/3 of wheel at a time.

When cured, rotate wheel and finish.

When cured, sand overlasps smooth, then tape again until you have 3
layers of glass tape.

Trim off excess glass with a sander.

You are now ready to install axle and rubber for tire.

Balance as required.

As I said, straight forward construction, just a PITA to do it.


--
Lew Hodgett
Box 2302
Whittier, CA, 90610-2302
E-Mail: [email protected]

Andy Dingley wrote:
>
> If you really care, go over to rec.bikes.tech and ask Jobst Brandt, the
> guy who wrote the book (literally) on bike wheel theory.

Read and understand the book first, or risk humiliation. <G>

>If you just
> want to tweak up a wheel to run true, go to the late, great Sheldon
> Brown's website and read the step-by-step instructions.


That was a shame... A loss far too early.