Updated version of our website

Great idea Morris I will make the change shortly. Take a look and let me
know how it turns out.
Rich
"Morris Dovey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:_zp%[email protected]...
> Rich wrote:
>
> > Ok, with all the publicity I have gotten , all this rigamorole
> > has generated 3 sales (all for the stone house) thus
> > increasing my router budget. Now I can get a better router
> > then the one I anticipated. But, one question why the stone
> > house any specific reasons?
>
> Any cub scout or brownie/bluebird can build a bird house. The
> stone house is both unique and attractive.
>
> Congratulations, you've found a /niche/. Now get wild and crazy:
> Feature a first-class photo of your most beautiful stone house on
> your home page. (Go with the flow.)
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto, Iowa USA
>

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:18:53 +0000, gabriel <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Please don't post your _business_ URL here again, unless you've really
>
>Geez, who the hell do you think you are to bar people from posting
>anything? Since we are into giving honest opinions, here's mine: your
>posting stinks of "asshole."
>
>Gotta love a judgemental know-it-all.

Yup, we love ya alright.

Pot, meet kettle, kettle, meet pot.

He didn't bar, he asked. See the word "Please" at the beginning?


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message > >
http://www.moorecommunications.com
> I'm not big on the animated menu. I like the popout feature, but the
> animation isn't adding anything to the site.

The floating DHTML was just a lark, I'll probably go with a static menu
partially integrated with the graphics at the top.

> Put some space between the copy text and menu. The text edges right
> against the right side of the menu. Put around 20-30 pixels between
> the two.

There was space about that size there. It's not a concern though because
when I go to a static menu, it won't be a matter.

> For your own protection, I'd be wary of having your e-mail address on
> the page. You're going to get flooded with spam. Just put a form on
> your contact us page that users can fill out. If you reply to them,
> they will then have your direct e-mail address.

Maybe that accounts for the 150 plus spam posts a day I get. I'm in the
process of making a contact page, just haven't got to it yet. I need to read
up on the POST feature for that and I'll be converting most of the website
to PHP when I can find the time to learn that too.]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 5:47am (EST+5) [email protected] (Rich)
claims:
Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on
the first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST
opinons. I won't take it too bad,.

Dump the music.

You say:
All items are one of a kind!

Every time I see someone saying this, I expect items to be just
that - one of a kind. The Empire State Building is one of a kind. I
make banks. I paint 'em by hand, colors vary, etc., slight differences,
no two exactly alike; but still, the same basic design. I wouldn't feel
right calling them one of a kind.

JOAT
Georges Clemenceau supposedly said, "War is too important a matter to be
left to the military". If this is so, it is then obvious that peace is
too precious to be left to politicians.

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 28 Feb 2004.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKEVOCALS/

OK, the noise is very distracting and I had to get out of there quick..


"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on
the
> first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST
opinons.
> I won't take it too bad,.
>
> Rich
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/
>
>

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:47:12 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on the
>first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST opinons.
>I won't take it too bad,.

You must not have looked at the URLs I left in response to the first
post. If you're trying to do this for a business, you have to remember
it's not YOUR site; it's the customer's site. They're the one you want
to attract and keep there.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Still with the mouse droppings following the pointer around?

I must have a low threshold for pain when it comes to these
things. In other words, sorry, I bailed at the first hint
of this annoyance.

UA100

how can you get better reviews if same objextions are present. I got
nonsensical mkusic and cursor trail right from the start. I couldnt go further.
Crap

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:58:34 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with woodworking,
>but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
>too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice it
>up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
>appreciated and/or tolerated.
>
>http://www.moorecommunications.com

I'm not convinced it needs "spicing up." It's clean as it is. When
you start selling homemade birdhouses, you can spice it up. ;>

I'd make only two suggestions-- one from a design pov, the second from
usability:

1.) See if you can't find a way to either stretch your top logo, or
center the entire page so that the top banner doesn't look so "off
center" at screen resolutions of 1200 and greater. The page looks
fine at 800x600, but as more and more standard monitors are 1200 the
page looks "dated." Being dated isn't an image you want to
subliminally project, right?

2.) While the javascript menu down the left side has the advantage of
being visible no matter where your potential clients are on the page,
it is _not_ a given that they will be able to see it. Especially
_your_ potential clients. After 9/11, a lot of companies and many
government offices instituted a policy of disabling javascript
capabilities in browsers. If my js was "turned off" I wouldn't have
even known there was a menu there.

There's a place for java, flash, etc., they serve a purpose at some
sites. A site such as yours, devoted _solely_ to effective
communications is, I believe, best constructed in such a way as to be
totally browser compatable no matter which browser a visitor is using.
What that boils down to for you is _keep it simple._

So;
Ditch the java menu. Center up your logo banner, using a color scheme
along the left and right sides of the banner that allow it to blend in
with the background, thereby maintaining a clean appearance no matter
which screen resolution a visitor is viewing.

Michael

> Please don't post your _business_ URL here again, unless you've really

Geez, who the hell do you think you are to bar people from posting
anything? Since we are into giving honest opinions, here's mine: your
posting stinks of "asshole."

Gotta love a judgemental know-it-all.

--
gabriel

In article <Oe6%[email protected]>, "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Actually, I don't think it was CONSTRUCTIVE I think it was mean and
>belittleing. Although, some people did give good suggestions others were
>just plain COLDHEARTED.

Apparently you're operating with a different set of definitions, such as
CONSTRUCTIVE = agreeable to you
COLDHEARTED = telling you that something that sucks, sucks.

You *asked* for opinions, remember? You got them, you didn't like them, and
now you're crying about it. If all you wanted was unconditional approval, you
should've asked your Mom. If you don't want honest opinions, or can't handle
it when you get them, don't ask.

When I was a kid, my Dad told me, over and over, "Be careful what you ask for.
You might get it."

Words to take to heart.

>THis is not a business, it is a hobby, one that I
>hope to use to make enough money to buy some more equipment to better my
>projects. Maybe then I can become OLD and Cranky like some people in here.

If you think that insulting us is going to improve your reception here... you
might want to think again.

>No offense, but I came here to learn and I got good information and when I
>tried to show off some of the things that you guys are teaching, I get
>nothing but mean misguided opinions.

Apparently in your dictionary, "misguided" means "doesn't match your
opinions".

> I hope that when I get old I stay
>regular and don't get as constipated as some people here. I still hope to
>learn from you guys as woodworkers although I don't expect to learn
>compassion!

I wonder how many killfiles you've been added to today...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:06:14 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"GSX" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:L01%b.5260$UU.32@lakeread01...
>
>> The music was enough to drive me
>> away.
>
>It has music? I won't even bother going then. Last thing I need is for
>music to suddenly blast when I'm browsing late at night while my wife is
>asleep or if there is a meeting going on in the office at work.

Actually Ed, you're missing out on a real opportunity.
Wait 'til she's asleep. Turn the volume on your PC up to MAXimum.
Hit the site, and start screaming "CIRCLE THE WAGONS!!!"

But don't plan on breakfast in the morning. ;>

Michael

Unisaw A100 wrote:
> I must have a low threshold for pain when it comes to these
> things.

You're not alone, Keith.

Wolfgang
--
"Holzbearbeitung mit Handwerkzeugen": http://www.holzwerken.de
Forum Handwerkzeuge:
http://www.woodworking.de/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl

ROFLMAO!!!!! You watered my eyes, yes you did!




"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:06:14 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"GSX" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:L01%b.5260$UU.32@lakeread01...
> >
> >> The music was enough to drive me
> >> away.
> >
> >It has music? I won't even bother going then. Last thing I need is for
> >music to suddenly blast when I'm browsing late at night while my wife is
> >asleep or if there is a meeting going on in the office at work.
>
> Actually Ed, you're missing out on a real opportunity.
> Wait 'til she's asleep. Turn the volume on your PC up to MAXimum.
> Hit the site, and start screaming "CIRCLE THE WAGONS!!!"
>
> But don't plan on breakfast in the morning. ;>
>
> Michael

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:FF3%[email protected]...
[snip]
> We just make the things they buy them!
[snip]


Not yet we haven't. Not bloody likely!

Wow, and all you had to do was make a complete ass of yourself! Fear Factor
is calling you.


BTW: How many sales did those hits generate?



"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Zza%[email protected]...
> look how many hits I got to my site, it was at least looked at
>
>

I am a web developer by day (I work at Microsoft). I agree that the removal
of the JavaScript menu is the most critical change needed.

Being in communications, it is imperative that your customers have a
reliable navigation system. If they do not, then you are not really
communicating with them then are you?



codepath




"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:uM9%[email protected]:
>
> > "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:_n9%[email protected]...
> >> I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have
> >> found the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer
> >> not the designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they
> >> will leave
> > and
> >
> > Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
> > woodworking, but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website,
> > mostly finished not too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I
> > was wonder how to spice it up a bit without going overboard. Any
> > comments good or bad will be appreciated and/or tolerated.
> >
> > http://www.moorecommunications.com
> >
> >
> I agree with all comments, except the suggestion for a yellow background.
> For me, in IE6 (my backup browser) the menu on the left jumps up and down
> too much. Moreover, in Mozilla Firebird, there is no left-hand menu.
> Fix that! If you want a stationary left-hand menu, I'd suggest frames.
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid

The other guy who jumped in to get a critique of his web site
(www.moorecommunication.com) has a left-hand navigational menu written in
JavaScript (a computer language also known as JScript or ECMAScript) that
follows you down the page (like the old GeoCities logo).

However, some browsers either don't support JavaScript or have JavaScript
turned off which causes the menu to not display at all. Bad mojo when
customers come to the site and cannot get to any of the pages.

BTW, that's another thing for your site. Have you tested it out on other
browsers/versions/platforms (Netscape 4.x, IE 4.x-6.x, Opera on PC & Mac,
etc). When putting up a web that is to be accessible to the general public,
you must consider market share and program (and test) it accordingly.

Some features that work fine on your computer (say a Windows XP with IE 6.0)
may fail (crash, error, or freeze) say a computer with different software
(say a Mac with Netscape). The last thing that you would want is for a
component of your web site (like the mouse trails) to crash a potential
customers computer. They hate that.


codepath



"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:4Fq%[email protected]...
> You got me, What is the JAVASCRIPT menu. I work with large aircraft not
> computers.
>
> Rich
>
> "codepath" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am a web developer by day (I work at Microsoft). I agree that the
> removal
> > of the JavaScript menu is the most critical change needed.
> >
> > Being in communications, it is imperative that your customers have a
> > reliable navigation system. If they do not, then you are not really
> > communicating with them then are you?
> >
> >
> >
> > codepath
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > > news:uM9%[email protected]:
> > >
> > > > "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:_n9%[email protected]...
> > > >> I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and
have
> > > >> found the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or
customer
> > > >> not the designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features
they
> > > >> will leave
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > > Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
> > > > woodworking, but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website,
> > > > mostly finished not too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I
> > > > was wonder how to spice it up a bit without going overboard. Any
> > > > comments good or bad will be appreciated and/or tolerated.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.moorecommunications.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I agree with all comments, except the suggestion for a yellow
> background.
> > > For me, in IE6 (my backup browser) the menu on the left jumps up and
> down
> > > too much. Moreover, in Mozilla Firebird, there is no left-hand menu.
> > > Fix that! If you want a stationary left-hand menu, I'd suggest
frames.
> > > --
> > > Best regards
> > > Han
> > > email address is invalid
> >
> >
>
>

I agree. Avoid using frames completely.

codepath



"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Han <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:uM9%[email protected]:
> >
> > > "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:_n9%[email protected]...
> > >> I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have
> > >> found the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer
> > >> not the designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they
> > >> will leave
> > > and
> > >
> > > Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
> > > woodworking, but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website,
> > > mostly finished not too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I
> > > was wonder how to spice it up a bit without going overboard. Any
> > > comments good or bad will be appreciated and/or tolerated.
> > >
> > > http://www.moorecommunications.com
> > >
> > >
> > I agree with all comments, except the suggestion for a yellow
background.
> > For me, in IE6 (my backup browser) the menu on the left jumps up and
down
> > too much. Moreover, in Mozilla Firebird, there is no left-hand menu.
> > Fix that! If you want a stationary left-hand menu, I'd suggest frames.
>
> ugh, frames are a terrible idea, and completely uncessessary. With
> frames, you cannot bookmark a single page inside the framework. There
> are plenty of workarounds.

Looks nice except that JavaScript error it throws.





"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:58:34 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
woodworking,
> >but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
> >too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice
it
> >up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
> >appreciated and/or tolerated.
> >
> >http://www.moorecommunications.com
>
> Dave, if you're still reading this thread, you may want to check out
> Mease Communications at http://www.measecom.com/.
>
> This guy got _everything_ right. Clean design, consistant across
> every page, easy to navigate, no java, and _super_ fast loading.
>
> I haven't explored every page in the site, but it appears that once he
> got a basic page template he liked, he rigourously maintained the look
> no matter which "services" page he was displaying.
>
> In the finest tradition of website authoring, maybe there's an idea or
> two there you can steal. :)
>
> Michael

How about a link to it?


"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:14:15 +0000, LRod
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:56:29 -0800, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>True enough. I went to Mike Hide's site on Tripod
> >
> >As a general rule, I avoid like the plague sites at Tripod, Geocities,
> >or Angelfire. I can't avoid them completely, and it's a lot better
> >since I started using Netscape 7.xxx but there's just too much crap
> >that those domains throw at you to make it worth visiting anything
> >there.
>
> You might want to check out Avant Browser. Not a true browser, but a
> "skin" that seemlessly lays over IE, (Not sure whether it's Netscape
> compatible.)
>
> I'm in love with it because a.) it has a built-in "block pop-up"
> feature, b.) it allows for multiple page openings, which can be c.)
> arranged-- "cascaded", and d.) somehow it _really_ improves the speed
> at which I can surf.
>
> A freebie I wouldn't be without.
>
> Michael

Uh, you brought it up, dude. I had never heard of it before.

So then, did you troll me?



"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:43:05 -0800, "codepath" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >How about a link to it?
>
> A link to Avant Browser? You trollin' me boy? :)
> http://www.avantbrowser.com/
>
> Michael (Hook, line, and sinker) Baglio

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:57:50 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Actually, I don't think it was CONSTRUCTIVE I think it was mean and
>belittleing. Although, some people did give good suggestions others were
>just plain COLDHEARTED.

That's right. Constructive and cold-hearted. Welcome to the business
world. You want warm fuzzies, get your web-business marketing advice
from your mommy. "Why Ritchie, that's beayuuuutiful! And
wolf-howling noises! Aren't _you_ the clever boy!!! <blink-blink>"

Stop whining.

> THis is not a business, it is a hobby,

As soon as you put your stuff up for sale to the public, it's a
business. Grow up and stop whining.

> one that I
>hope to use to make enough money to buy some more equipment to better my
>projects.

Which _might_ happen if you stop getting offended when people
criticise your site, and start making the suggested changes. Stop
whining.

> Maybe then I can become OLD and Cranky like some people in here.
>No offense, but I came here to learn and I got good information and when I
>tried to show off some of the things that you guys are teaching, I get
>nothing but mean misguided opinions.

Classic. _You_ get all the free advice, _we're_ mean.
Stop whining.

> I hope that when I get old I stay
>regular and don't get as constipated as some people here. I still hope to
>learn from you guys as woodworkers although I don't expect to learn
>compassion!

You got a lot to learn about compassion. Go read Matthew 7, verse 6.
Try not to get snot on the page.

Michael

You got me, What is the JAVASCRIPT menu. I work with large aircraft not
computers.

Rich

"codepath" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am a web developer by day (I work at Microsoft). I agree that the
removal
> of the JavaScript menu is the most critical change needed.
>
> Being in communications, it is imperative that your customers have a
> reliable navigation system. If they do not, then you are not really
> communicating with them then are you?
>
>
>
> codepath
>
>
>
>
> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:uM9%[email protected]:
> >
> > > "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:_n9%[email protected]...
> > >> I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have
> > >> found the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer
> > >> not the designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they
> > >> will leave
> > > and
> > >
> > > Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
> > > woodworking, but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website,
> > > mostly finished not too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I
> > > was wonder how to spice it up a bit without going overboard. Any
> > > comments good or bad will be appreciated and/or tolerated.
> > >
> > > http://www.moorecommunications.com
> > >
> > >
> > I agree with all comments, except the suggestion for a yellow
background.
> > For me, in IE6 (my backup browser) the menu on the left jumps up and
down
> > too much. Moreover, in Mozilla Firebird, there is no left-hand menu.
> > Fix that! If you want a stationary left-hand menu, I'd suggest frames.
> > --
> > Best regards
> > Han
> > email address is invalid
>
>

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on the
> first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST opinons.
> I won't take it too bad,.
>
> Rich
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/

I've been a web developer since 95, I'm going to be picky... so here
goes...

1) Better photos. I realize you're a small shop, but if you're going
to advertise your products, you need some professionally captured
photos. You don't have that many, so it wouldn't be that expensive.
Photos that have white backgrounds and proper lighting. I'm sure
those walking sticks are quite beautiful, but you'd never know it from
the website.

Here's an example of a site that I did:
Take a look at the lousy photos they supplied me
http://www.tubefab.org/inhouse.htm

Then look at the new photos they're starting to take:
http://www.tubefab.org/scmach.htm

Day and night. Notice also that the new photo were taken with a very
good high res camera, and we have the ability to zoom to a larger
picture for some detail work. These are small parts you're looking
at.

2) Consistent font sizes and weights.
3) A consistent logo with the name of the company incorporated into
the graphic.
4) Better descriptions of the product. The cheese board says: "These
boards are very decorative and add a touch of elegance to your serving
needs." Why should I buy yours over the other guy? I don't even know
what kind of wood these are made from.
5) Either boot the "Home" button off the home page, or highlight the
button based on the page I'm currently on.
6) Others have talked about music and mouse trails. I don't hear
those, but I may have activeX downloads turned off on this machine.
If you have them, dump them.

Unfortunately, I can't always follow my own advice because I do what
my clients ask me to do. I had one guy insist I put a picture of his
Grandson on his business website!

However, I steer them in the right direction as much as possible.

If you're still confused between good and bad design, take a look at

www.webpagesthatsuck.com

Han <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:uM9%[email protected]:
>
> > "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:_n9%[email protected]...
> >> I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have
> >> found the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer
> >> not the designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they
> >> will leave
> > and
> >
> > Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
> > woodworking, but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website,
> > mostly finished not too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I
> > was wonder how to spice it up a bit without going overboard. Any
> > comments good or bad will be appreciated and/or tolerated.
> >
> > http://www.moorecommunications.com
> >
> >
> I agree with all comments, except the suggestion for a yellow background.
> For me, in IE6 (my backup browser) the menu on the left jumps up and down
> too much. Moreover, in Mozilla Firebird, there is no left-hand menu.
> Fix that! If you want a stationary left-hand menu, I'd suggest frames.

ugh, frames are a terrible idea, and completely uncessessary. With
frames, you cannot bookmark a single page inside the framework. There
are plenty of workarounds.

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<uM9%[email protected]>...
> "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:_n9%[email protected]...
> > I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have found
> > the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer not the
> > designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they will leave
> and
>
> Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with woodworking,
> but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
> too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice it
> up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
> appreciated and/or tolerated.
>
> http://www.moorecommunications.com

As stated to the other guy, I'm a developer since '95. I do all the
internet related stuff for a major auto supplier, in addition to doing
some side work. So take my advice as you see fit!

First glace, I like it. It's friendly to resizing the browser size
since the text wraps based on the width of my window. The graphics
are clean, and fairly easy to read.

Couple things I would change.

It's been shown that online reading is something like 50% slower than
reading from paper copy. To make things easier on your users, put
more whitespace in the main copy (i.e., more spacing between lines).
I generally use around 150% line spacing, but it all depends on the
font used.

I'm not big on the animated menu. I like the popout feature, but the
animation isn't adding anything to the site.

Don't change the background to yellow. That's nuts.

Put some space between the copy text and menu. The text edges right
against the right side of the menu. Put around 20-30 pixels between
the two.

What's going on with your Contact Us page? Your phone numbers are all
screwed up. In fact, the phone numbers at the bottom are messed up on
each page. The phone numbe wrap at the hyphen. I also absolutely
can't STAND "Under development" messages. ALL pages are always under
development. Get rid of it.

For your own protection, I'd be wary of having your e-mail address on
the page. You're going to get flooded with spam. Just put a form on
your contact us page that users can fill out. If you reply to them,
they will then have your direct e-mail address.

Ok, that's it!

Michael Baglio <mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:58:34 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with woodworking,
> >but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
> >too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice it
> >up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
> >appreciated and/or tolerated.
> >
> >http://www.moorecommunications.com
>
> I'm not convinced it needs "spicing up." It's clean as it is. When
> you start selling homemade birdhouses, you can spice it up. ;>
>
> I'd make only two suggestions-- one from a design pov, the second from
> usability:
>
> 1.) See if you can't find a way to either stretch your top logo, or
> center the entire page so that the top banner doesn't look so "off
> center" at screen resolutions of 1200 and greater. The page looks
> fine at 800x600, but as more and more standard monitors are 1200 the
> page looks "dated." Being dated isn't an image you want to
> subliminally project, right?

Not sure I agree with this. Most major companies still develop for
800 pixel width. Go to microsoft.com, ibm.com, gm.com, ford.com, list
goes on and on.


> 2.) While the javascript menu down the left side has the advantage of
> being visible no matter where your potential clients are on the page,
> it is _not_ a given that they will be able to see it. Especially
> _your_ potential clients. After 9/11, a lot of companies and many
> government offices instituted a policy of disabling javascript
> capabilities in browsers. If my js was "turned off" I wouldn't have
> even known there was a menu there.

Not a bad idea, although JS has very little security risk, especially
compared to java, active x, and flash.

I just tried the sites I mentioned above with javascript turned off,
and most require it. Ford.com doesn't come up, GM gives a warning
message. Ibm checks for it and offers a different version of the web
page (probably the best solution), with MS you loose some graphical
functionality.

The developer, however, could check for it and put a message up that
his site requires it if it's not on. That's what GM.com does. Or you
could just offer static menus if scripting is turned off.

> > For your own protection, I'd be wary of having your e-mail address on
> > the page. You're going to get flooded with spam. Just put a form on
> > your contact us page that users can fill out. If you reply to them,
> > they will then have your direct e-mail address.
>
> Maybe that accounts for the 150 plus spam posts a day I get. I'm in the
> process of making a contact page, just haven't got to it yet. I need to read
> up on the POST feature for that and I'll be converting most of the website
> to PHP when I can find the time to learn that too.]

Unfortunately, now that spammers have your email address, it will
never end. Wow, 150. I get ZERO. If you have control over your
email addresses, I'd dump the current one and make a new mailbox.

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6B8%[email protected]...
> OK <OK I got it I'll fix what's wrong but I'll keep what I like. I'll
make
> it more professional and take into consideration what others think. But
this
> is the only newsgroup that made everything harsh like swallowing tacks.

Unfortunately, the internet has bred a detached mind set where people will
say things online that they'd never say in person. I know I'm guilty of
that, but you can't escape it, so don't let it deter you. Take what people
have said with a grain of salt and move on. I'm sure that most of the people
where would be great company if they got them together for a beer or two, so
just look at it like they've run out of beer for awhile, ignore the harsh
words and go make a beer run. :)

OK <OK I got it I'll fix what's wrong but I'll keep what I like. I'll make
it more professional and take into consideration what others think. But this
is the only newsgroup that made everything harsh like swallowing tacks.

Rich

Whatever, I'm done with you. Chatting with you is not worth my time, I
didn't even read your message, that's how much I value whatever you have to
say...

--
gabriel

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:18:53 +0000, gabriel <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Please don't post your _business_ URL here again, unless you've really
>
>Geez, who the hell do you think you are to bar people from posting
>anything?

Someone who's apparently taken more time to read the groups charter,
guidelines and faq than you have.

> Since we are into giving honest opinions, here's mine: your
>posting stinks of "asshole."

Loosen up the suspenders on your lederhosen there Skippy, you're going
to hurt youself. An asshole would have just reported a spammer to his
ISP. Instead, several of us here, (myself included), gave
constructive criticism as was asked for. If you had a clue about the
purpose of this group and what it generally frowns on, you'd realize
what a service that was to the OP.

Since the OP is busy justifying what he continues to do instead of
initiating any actual changes in his website, one can only conclude
that his _real_ motive here is to spam, not improve. So, the
courteous response he initially got will/has turned.

Your post stinks of a self-absorbed whiner who's above any set of
guidelines that might limit his doing whatever he wants in a
newsgroup. A classic action from one who obviously thinks its a
"free" usenet and anything goes. Rules don't apply to you, right?
Anything you judge as against what you _personally_ think usenet ought
to be like isn't acceptable at all, is it? Screw the conventions of
usenet, you're above them...

>Gotta love a judgemental know-it-all.

Yeah. Don't ya just?

Michael

Doug Miller wrote:

> That's too bad. You might have learned something. My guess is that you
> are, or soon will be, in more killfiles than Mr. Baglio is. But that's
> just MHO.

LOL! Might have learned something? I'm too experienced in pissing
matches (which only indicates I have taken pissing matches too seriously
in the past) to learn anything from this type of exchange.

As to being in twit filters myself, that's fine. It's just your guess
and opinion (which is worth as much as mine), it's unprovable, it does
not harm me, and anyone who chooses to ignore me is well within their
rights.

I see right away the kind of person this guy is, I do not care for a
pissing match, you know, a thread that goes on for 20 exchanges between
two grown people making fools of themselves publicly. I'd rather stop it
right now, since it does not affect me whether or not this guy thinks the
world of me. If he chooses to get pissed over what I said, it's his
choice. My own choice is to disregard him.

--
gabriel

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:46:57 GMT, Michael Baglio
<mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> scribbled:

>You might want to check out Avant Browser. Not a true browser, but a
>"skin" that seemlessly lays over IE, (Not sure whether it's Netscape
>compatible.)
>
>I'm in love with it because a.) it has a built-in "block pop-up"
>feature, b.) it allows for multiple page openings, which can be c.)
>arranged-- "cascaded", and d.) somehow it _really_ improves the speed
>at which I can surf.
>
>A freebie I wouldn't be without.

Same with Opera. Once I got over the learning curve (like figuring out
how to get Lee Valley's cookies to work, but not others'), its great.
Much faster, multiple pages at once, total control over everything.
You want to allow javascript for one page, just click on "Quick
preferences". Can be obtained free if your are willing to put up with
an unobtrusive banner ad in the top right corner.

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html

Boy either your all brutal or you need to drink your coffee!

Rich

In article <[email protected]>, gabriel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Whatever, I'm done with you. Chatting with you is not worth my time, I
>didn't even read your message, that's how much I value whatever you have to
>say...
>
That's too bad. You might have learned something. My guess is that you are,
or soon will be, in more killfiles than Mr. Baglio is. But that's just MHO.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

MICHEAL BAGLIO said
You changed your "shop" photo from one of a door, to one of a mess. I
know, shops are messy, but you're putting it up on display to show
people you're a legitimate "business" here, so at least for the web
photos, clean it up.

And seriously now, Dude, is that, like, _laundry_ hanging over your
tools? What's with the towels?
My shops not a mess it's small and tight but never a mess.
And the "laundry" as you put it are hand towels hanging over my work area
for easy reach. Theres a different type of towel for different reasons, alas
I don't know why I must explain it but anywho!

I like the site, It not only has to have a "mans" point of view but it must
also appeal to women. We just make the things they buy them! We don't like
shopping for clothes or dishes so that stuff has little appeal to us.

Rich

Rich, are you sure you're cut out to sell your goods? I read all of the
comments from this thread as well as the earlier one you started and my
opinion (unbiased I think) is if you're this bent out of shape over
these comments you're NOT going to survive dealing with unhappy
customers who think your product is crap, damaged, misleading, too big,
too small, not the color on the web site, not what Aunt Mildred wanted,
was eaten by the dog and they need a free replacement, after 5 years no
birds have moved into the birdhouse so they want a refund, etc.

These comments don't seem harsh to me at all. You said you wanted
honest opinions and that you wouldn't take it too bad. They gave you
their opinion. All the comments look constructive to me. Perhaps you
weren't looking for ALL opinions, but just praise?

BTW, it IS a business; it WAS a hobby. When you sell your product it's
a business. Your profits will be turned back into the business in the
form of tools. That's cool and maybe it will be a small part-time
business, but a business none-the-less.

The main suggestion I have is that your web site is your business's
image. Mouse trails and such come across as amateurish. I know you
like them, I did too the first time I learned how to do one, but today
they appear amateurish. Do I want to send my money to an amateur?
Probably not. Look at other company's sites (someone suggested Lee
Valley, but look at any site) and see how many of them have mouse
trails, how many of them have music, how many of them have pictures that
are slightly misaligned. Did you find any? Of the few, if any, you
found how did it make you feel about the company? Did it give you more
or less confidence in them compared to other companies? I understand
you only put stuff on the first site, but that might be the ONLY site
anyone looks at unless you captivate them to dig deeper.

Good luck, and take the comments of all potential customers as valuable.

--
Larry C in Auburn WA
"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Oe6%[email protected]...
> Actually, I don't think it was CONSTRUCTIVE I think it was mean and
> belittleing. Although, some people did give good suggestions others
were
> just plain COLDHEARTED. THis is not a business, it is a hobby, one
that I
> hope to use to make enough money to buy some more equipment to better
my
> projects. Maybe then I can become OLD and Cranky like some people in
here.
> No offense, but I came here to learn and I got good information and
when I
> tried to show off some of the things that you guys are teaching, I get
> nothing but mean misguided opinions. I hope that when I get old I stay
> regular and don't get as constipated as some people here. I still hope
to
> learn from you guys as woodworkers although I don't expect to learn
> compassion!
>
> Rich
>
>

OH Geeze.......

In article <Ks5%[email protected]>, "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I did change the music and cursor trails so that it is only on the first
>page.

Lose the mouse trail. Lose the music. Everywhere. ESPECIALLY on your first
page! That's the *worst* place you could possibly put that junk: if you have a
bunch of annoying crap on your first page... nobody's gonna look at the *rest*
of the pages! Don't you understand that?

How many people have to tell you that that stuff is annoying, before you will
listen? We're not trying to pick on you, we're just telling you the truth.
It's cutesy. Web novices just *love* that kind of cutesy stuff. But it's
annoying. *Nobody* wants to look at a page with that stuff on it, except maybe
the guy that designed it.

News Flash, Rich -- if you're trying to attract customers, you want a web site
that's attractive to the *customers*. Not to you. Nobody cares if you like the
site. That's not what attracts and retains customers.

Sheesh.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Now thats an opinion. I like that. I will get in there and change or try to
rather, the wolf picture.
I did change the music and cursor trails so that it is only on the first
page.Also why the first page is a short one.
I will work more on the site.
Thanks Again

Rich

Well...since you asked...

I work part-time as an Internet developer. When I first started learning in
1996, there were a few things that were considered frivolous toys that new
and/or amateur designers feel they NEEDED to do. Back then it was adding
MIDI files in the background for music and blinking text. They were always
frowned upon from a good design standpoint. They still are.

The mouse trail, while entertaining for a second to somebody that has never
seen it, is equivalent to blinking text. In all honesty, I left the site
before the page even finished loading. The music was enough to drive me
away.

If this is a personal site where you just want to talk about anything, do
what you want. Since I got the impression (in the 1.2 seconds I stuck
around) that this is a business site, design elements must be pleasing to
the end user AKA "the people that will pay you money for your widgets". <g>

I remember reading a book that said "if you think you need to add one more
little gimmick to your page, you have already done too much." Content is
king. The music and the mouse trail will not sell your items, but a visually
appealing and non-intrusive display of the items will.

I hope this helps. You're brave for standing in front of a firing squad
(twice)!

Good luck with your venture,
G



"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on
the
> first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST
opinons.
> I won't take it too bad,.
>
> Rich
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/
>
>

In article <Ks5%[email protected]>, unitedair2004
@verizon.net says...
> Now thats an opinion. I like that. I will get in there and change or try to
> rather, the wolf picture.
> I did change the music and cursor trails so that it is only on the first
> page.Also why the first page is a short one.
> I will work more on the site.
> Thanks Again

Amazing. 99% of the people tell you that your site would be better off
without ANY music or mouse trails, yet you still keep them.

Good thing we're not your customer base, or you'd be out of business
soon.

Here's a regurgitated tip for you - if you want a professional looking
site to conduct e-business, then take a look at some real sites, like
www.leevalley.com. It's well organized, clean, and makes it easy to do
business with them.

Good luck.
--
Regards,

Rick

(Remove the HIGH SPOTS for e-mail)

Rich wrote:
> Boy either your all brutal or you need to drink your coffee!


He might want to switch to decaf.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

"gandalf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> --------------
> Looks OK, I like your top banner and the layout is clean and simple. But,
where
> I assume the menu should be (left-hand side) I get nothing. It may be that
my
> firewall is rejecting it. Have you got any embedded adverts in it?

It's a floating DHTML menu. No adverts. Perhaps you have Javascript turned
off?

Ok, with all the publicity I have gotten , all this rigamorole has generated
3 sales (all for the stone house) thus increasing my router budget. Now I
can get a better router then the one I anticipated. But, one question why
the stone house any specific reasons?

Rich

"gandalf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on
the
> > first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST
opinons.
> > I won't take it too bad,.
> >
> --------------
> I've read all the posts so far and I assume you need no more input
regarding you
> actual site. So I offer a little product help. (not a critique)
>
> Birdhouses:
>
> About a week ago I thought I might just make a couple of birdhouses for
the
> garden as we have a large number of magpies in the area (North of England)
and
> they decimate the song-birds (those the cats don't get). I thought that
building
> one would be easy enough but I did a google anyway. Just as well I did
because
> there is more to those things than one initially considers. To keep this
short I
> spent hours on various sites learning about the needs of various species
and the
> predatory threats they face. I also came across sites that just make the
kiddies
> version of same without much consideration of its use. The sites that
showed
> that they knew the desired purpose and provided helpful details regarding
> species by species requirement and how their product catered for them
would have
> got my business, if I was going to buy one. So I think you could enhance
> saleability by including similar helpful data, and designing accordingly.
Your
> customers will feel more confident and satisfied that they have made the
correct
> choice for their locale.
>
> Some of the construction information available is very useful and not
instantly
> obvious, until you think about it.(around here those little external
perches and
> landing decks would summon predators in a flash) Things that look nice can
be
> impractical, unless your customer merely wants a colourful or novel
ornament.
>
> You can do a google yourself but to start you off try here:
> http://birding.about.com/library/weekly/aa032101c.htm
>
> HTH
>
>
>
>

Actually, I don't think it was CONSTRUCTIVE I think it was mean and
belittleing. Although, some people did give good suggestions others were
just plain COLDHEARTED. THis is not a business, it is a hobby, one that I
hope to use to make enough money to buy some more equipment to better my
projects. Maybe then I can become OLD and Cranky like some people in here.
No offense, but I came here to learn and I got good information and when I
tried to show off some of the things that you guys are teaching, I get
nothing but mean misguided opinions. I hope that when I get old I stay
regular and don't get as constipated as some people here. I still hope to
learn from you guys as woodworkers although I don't expect to learn
compassion!

Rich

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vd7%[email protected]...
> Now thats what I call constructive criticism! Not only did it show me
where
> corrections can be made but it also showed how without being belittleing.
> > I have been fuming over some of the posts, guess I took it to heart
which I
> shouldn't have but I'm only human.

FWIW, over on rec.photo.digital posters ask for critiques of their pictures
and, generally, get overwhelmed with rude and useless criticism. I, for one,
say before you tell me my dog can't hunt worth a sh-- show me what yours can
do.
Now while I'm thinking about it, I need to update my site(s)

Larry
--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
http://home.mchsi.com/~larrylhote
http://home.mchsi.com/~llhote

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only
> on the first page along with the annoying following words. Remember
> HONEST opinons. I won't take it too bad,.
>
> Rich
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/
>
I didn't like the howling (YMMV), so I will NOT revisit.
Use Mozilla Firebird if you don't like the mouse trails - it didn't show
them.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:uM9%[email protected]:

> "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:_n9%[email protected]...
>> I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have
>> found the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer
>> not the designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they
>> will leave
> and
>
> Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
> woodworking, but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website,
> mostly finished not too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I
> was wonder how to spice it up a bit without going overboard. Any
> comments good or bad will be appreciated and/or tolerated.
>
> http://www.moorecommunications.com
>
>
I agree with all comments, except the suggestion for a yellow background.
For me, in IE6 (my backup browser) the menu on the left jumps up and down
too much. Moreover, in Mozilla Firebird, there is no left-hand menu.
Fix that! If you want a stationary left-hand menu, I'd suggest frames.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Personally I like it as is. It is clean looking and loads reasonably fast.
The one comment would be to fix the contact us page. Get rid of the "this
page is under developement" stuff and move the contact information from the
bottom to the top. That's all you really want on that page, how to contact
you.

Rick

--
webservant

Web design for churches http://www.gibs-web.ca
Wycliffe Bible Translators Caribbean http://www.wycliffecaribbean.org
Journaling / mental health http://www.pipcom.com/~jpeacock/
Bothwell Baptist Church http://www.forministry.com/CAONBCOOQBBC1




"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uM9%[email protected]...
> "Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:_n9%[email protected]...
> > I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have
found
> > the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer not the
> > designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they will leave
> and
>
> Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with
woodworking,
> but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
> too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice
it
> up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
> appreciated and/or tolerated.
>
> http://www.moorecommunications.com
>
>

Rich,

I think the reactions on this round of "reviews" are more harsh because of
one thing. In the first reviews, I thought it was clear the audience hated
music and mouse trails. You chose to leave them in, then asked for reviews
again. I think this insulted a lot of people. Its like "please take your
time to look and then write what you think, but I'm not going to listen to
you".

Having said that I'll offer some constructive suggestions. I realize that
you do not have a whole lot of control over the site using Verizon supplied
tools. But you do have total control over the picture size and quality
placed on the site. A little tailoring of the pictures is equivalent of
doing final fit and finish of a wood project with good hand tools. The wolf
picture does not align with the menu. It looks pasted in. You can use a
graphics editor to crop the picture and make it align. There are many
graphics editors available for cheap or free. A little work on the
photographs could also eliminate the time stamp in the pictures.

I noted that you have a blurb "We also make gun and fishing rod racks.
Pictures coming soon!". You might have some afficianados really interested
in these. Rather than such an indefinite "coming soon!", how about
"Pictures available on 5 March 2004". Unfortunately, the internet community
has seen too many "coming soon" and "under construction" notices that mean
"We may or may not get these updated".

Congratulations on making your menu a meaningful and useful product index.
That's a big improvement!

Best regards,
Bob

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:B13%[email protected]...
> Boy either your all brutal or you need to drink your coffee!
>
> Rich
>
>

look how many hits I got to my site, it was at least looked at

I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have found
the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer not the
designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they will leave and
go elsewhere. Generally if they don't see something they of interest within
10 - 20 seconds they are gone, tweak their interest and they will hang
around and look. For the web designer fancy dodads and stuff are - oh look
what I did that's neat, but for the person visiting the page it is something
to slow down the load and distract them from what they are really looking
for.

I would suggest centering the information on the screen and go with a plain
white background or if you want the mottled look make it a consistent
background over the whole page it just looks better and cleaner.

Home page

1) moving text gets old and annoying real fast.

2) suggest you resize the wolf picture so it lines up.



Shelves and boxes

1) photo would likely look better if you had a couple pictures - closer and
no other objects in background such as couch.

2) Give a time period for the gun and fishing rod rack photos - ie early
March, early April 2004

3) Same comments as for home page except moving text is gone which is a good
thing.

Planters

1) At first I though captions were reversed for the pictures but realized
you have an extra one at the bottom for the 3 pot planter and the original
caption for the 3 pot planter is in bold making it appear to be part of the
heading.

Shop

1) Suggest you clean it up and retake the pictures it would look much more
professional. First impressions are everything and an impression of a
cluttered shop is the same as a dirty cluttered garage when you take your
car in for work you are unsure if you want these guys to work on it or not.

In General

Most of the photos were taken to far away to give the viewer a good idea of
what he is looking at. Photo's should be good quality closeups with the
option of a larger view. For some of us me included a 1 - 2 inch photo on
the screen is just to small. The option of clicking on the photo and getting
a full screen picture would improve things. If you do this don't do what I
have seen some others do and just enlarge the small picture. It gets
"blocky" and is really poor quality. Start with a good quality picture for
the large one and reduce it for the thumbnail.

Many have mentioned the sound. I didn't hear it - maybe it has been removed
or perhaps the way my system is set up but don't put sound in. If you want
to provide sound make it an option with the default to off.

Someone mentioned removing the link to the page you were presently on. Don't
worry about that to much it gives you pages a consistent look from one to
another, a better idea would be to remove the link but leave the text and
highlight it in a different color as an indication of where you are in the
site.


webservant

Web design for churches http://www.gibs-web.ca
Wycliffe Bible Translators Caribbean http://www.wycliffecaribbean.org
Journaling / mental health http://www.pipcom.com/~jpeacock/
Bothwell Baptist Church http://www.forministry.com/CAONBCOOQBBC1





"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on
the
> first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST
opinons.
> I won't take it too bad,.
>
> Rich
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/
>
>

Rich wrote:

> Ok, with all the publicity I have gotten , all this rigamorole
> has generated 3 sales (all for the stone house) thus
> increasing my router budget. Now I can get a better router
> then the one I anticipated. But, one question why the stone
> house any specific reasons?

Any cub scout or brownie/bluebird can build a bird house. The
stone house is both unique and attractive.

Congratulations, you've found a /niche/. Now get wild and crazy:
Feature a first-class photo of your most beautiful stone house on
your home page. (Go with the flow.)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:56:29 -0800, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]>
wrote:

>True enough. I went to Mike Hide's site on Tripod

As a general rule, I avoid like the plague sites at Tripod, Geocities,
or Angelfire. I can't avoid them completely, and it's a lot better
since I started using Netscape 7.xxx but there's just too much crap
that those domains throw at you to make it worth visiting anything
there.


- -
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

<snip>

>
> I missed the address and phone, by the way. Unless you expect me to
> e-mail a check, some real contact information would help us both.
> FWIW, I won't order from a web vendor if I don't know who and where
> they really are.

<snip>

Yup! When looking at products, that's one of the first things I do.
Head to the "about" page to look at a physical address. First, to see
if it might be local. Second, to know that this is an actual business
and not something "fly-by-night". Plus, it gives you a place to throw
rocks at when everything goes wrong!

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on the
> first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST opinons.
> I won't take it too bad,.
>
--------------
I've read all the posts so far and I assume you need no more input regarding you
actual site. So I offer a little product help. (not a critique)

Birdhouses:

About a week ago I thought I might just make a couple of birdhouses for the
garden as we have a large number of magpies in the area (North of England) and
they decimate the song-birds (those the cats don't get). I thought that building
one would be easy enough but I did a google anyway. Just as well I did because
there is more to those things than one initially considers. To keep this short I
spent hours on various sites learning about the needs of various species and the
predatory threats they face. I also came across sites that just make the kiddies
version of same without much consideration of its use. The sites that showed
that they knew the desired purpose and provided helpful details regarding
species by species requirement and how their product catered for them would have
got my business, if I was going to buy one. So I think you could enhance
saleability by including similar helpful data, and designing accordingly. Your
customers will feel more confident and satisfied that they have made the correct
choice for their locale.

Some of the construction information available is very useful and not instantly
obvious, until you think about it.(around here those little external perches and
landing decks would summon predators in a flash) Things that look nice can be
impractical, unless your customer merely wants a colourful or novel ornament.

You can do a google yourself but to start you off try here:
http://birding.about.com/library/weekly/aa032101c.htm

HTH

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:uM9%[email protected]...
>
> Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with woodworking,
> but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
> too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice it
> up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
> appreciated and/or tolerated.
>
--------------
Looks OK, I like your top banner and the layout is clean and simple. But, where
I assume the menu should be (left-hand side) I get nothing. It may be that my
firewall is rejecting it. Have you got any embedded adverts in it?

Michael Baglio

>On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:14:15 +0000, LRod
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:56:29 -0800, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>True enough. I went to Mike Hide's site on Tripod
>>>
>>>
>>As a general rule, I avoid like the plague sites at Tripod, Geocities,
>>or Angelfire. I can't avoid them completely, and it's a lot better
>>since I started using Netscape 7.xxx but there's just too much crap
>>that those domains throw at you to make it worth visiting anything
>>there.
>>
>>
>
>You might want to check out Avant Browser. Not a true browser, but a
>"skin" that seemlessly lays over IE, (Not sure whether it's Netscape
>compatible.)
>
>I'm in love with it because a.) it has a built-in "block pop-up"
>feature, b.) it allows for multiple page openings, which can be c.)
>arranged-- "cascaded", and d.) somehow it _really_ improves the speed
>at which I can surf.
>
>A freebie I wouldn't be without.
>
>Michael
>
>
Almost sounds like Netscape 7.xxx!

> as some people here. I still hope to learn from you guys as
> woodworkers although I don't expect to learn compassion!

Twit filter, man, twit filter... Figure out how to use it on your reader.
With newsreaders, as in real life, you can choose who you listen to.

Ain't no use listening to someone always feeding you crap and turning a
good day into a bad one.

--
gabriel

Rich wrote:

> Boy either your all brutal or you need to drink your coffee!

Rich, don't let these guys get to you. It's waaay to easy to be an
asshole when you're not in front of the people whose work you're putting
down.

When any of these insensitive fools make their own web site and have the
balls to point it out for critique, then will they even be at your level.

Also remember, critics are a dime a dozen, people who actually do things,
are much harder to find.

For example: Did I ever mention how I think Sam Malloof rocking chairs
stink cuz they look like they are taken right out of "BeetleJuice"? Of
course I will not mention that I have never even tried to make a rocking
chair... Does this statement sound reasonable? No, it's just a shithead
talking trash. That's what some of these posts regarding your web site
are.

--
gabriel

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:01:41 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>MICHEAL BAGLIO said

Michael, actually.

>>You changed your "shop" photo from one of a door, to one of a mess.
> My shops not a mess...

My mistake. It just really resembles a mess in the picture. It must
be one of those "camera adds 10 pounds" things.

>>What's with the towels?

>And the "laundry" as you put it are hand towels hanging over my work area
>for easy reach.

You mistook my question. I didn't ask what they were for, I asked why
are they in the photo? If you take a photo of your living room, don't
you put the vacuum cleaner away first? I don't _know_ since I'm not
there, but it sure appears as if you just put whatever photo you had
available on your website, rather than re-taking one specifically
aimed at marketing your workplace.

>Theres a different type of towel for different reasons, alas
>I don't know why I must explain it but anywho!

There's no reason to explain it at all. Having towels hanging over
your tools like used bar rags will tell your potential customers
everything they need to know about the level of your commitment to
producing a quality product. There's no chance at all that they'll
see that photo and think that the effort you put into the stuff you
want them to buy is on the same par with the effort you put into
showing your shop off in it's best light. (Geez, man do ya get it
yet?)
>
>I like the site,

Who cares? You're not the customer.

> It not only has to have a "mans" point of view but it must
>also appeal to women.

Haven't you read _any_thing _any_one's posted in response to your
request? You're site doesn't appeal even to us hairy-backed,
chest-beating, smelly-armpitted men. You think you're scoring some
style points with the women on this group? If you are then PLEASE
don't blow what little chance you have by saying something totally
sexist and apish.

>We just make the things they buy them!

Oh damn, you did it anyway. GREAT marketing move there.

> We don't like
>shopping for clothes or dishes so that stuff has little appeal to us.

<SHHhhh...> Don't tell Ralph Lauren, he thinks he's selling millions
of those POLO shirts men don't like shopping for. He doesn't realize
you're snagging 'em all at the thrift store for shop rags.

Michael

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 13:25:24 +0000, LRod
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:47:12 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on the
>>first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST opinons.
>>I won't take it too bad,.
>
>You must not have looked at the URLs I left in response to the first
>post.

Obviously not, which puts him dangerously close to being a spammer.

Rich, in addition to the suggestions of everyone else in the thread:

Scrap the entire site and start over. If you wouldn't pay $10,000 to
a publishing company to produce a print catalogue that looked exactly
like your sight, (and God, I hope you wouldn't), then you have _no_
reason to think that your sight will attract business simply because
it's on the web. It's not 1996. The novelty factor of the web is now
zero. You have to actually accord web viewers the same level of
professionalism that print advertisers do. Fortunately for you, you
don't have to spend much money to achieve that level of
professionalism. But you do have to spend the time to know what that
level is.

Web viewers are not stupid. It's rather insulting to them to be told
"website orders get 20% off (!!!)" when it's obvious that web viewers
are your only (potential) customers. Drop your selling price by 20%
or don't, but remove the line. Nobody is going to think they're
getting a "special" price, okay? Stop treating me like I'm a chump.

You changed your "shop" photo from one of a door, to one of a mess. I
know, shops are messy, but you're putting it up on display to show
people you're a legitimate "business" here, so at least for the web
photos, clean it up.

And seriously now, Dude, is that, like, _laundry_ hanging over your
tools? What's with the towels?

Please don't post your _business_ URL here again, unless you've really
made some significant changes to your entire site, along the lines of
the suggestions you've been given by several folks on this newsgroup.
The responders here have done so in order to help you succeed, but
generally don't take kindly to those who use any excuse as reason
enough to throw their URL out into usenet.

Good luck. Get to work.

Michael

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:14:15 +0000, LRod
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 22:56:29 -0800, Luigi Zanasi <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>True enough. I went to Mike Hide's site on Tripod
>
>As a general rule, I avoid like the plague sites at Tripod, Geocities,
>or Angelfire. I can't avoid them completely, and it's a lot better
>since I started using Netscape 7.xxx but there's just too much crap
>that those domains throw at you to make it worth visiting anything
>there.

You might want to check out Avant Browser. Not a true browser, but a
"skin" that seemlessly lays over IE, (Not sure whether it's Netscape
compatible.)

I'm in love with it because a.) it has a built-in "block pop-up"
feature, b.) it allows for multiple page openings, which can be c.)
arranged-- "cascaded", and d.) somehow it _really_ improves the speed
at which I can surf.

A freebie I wouldn't be without.

Michael

In article <vd7%[email protected]>, "Rich" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Now thats what I call constructive criticism! Not only did it show me where
>corrections can be made but it also showed how without being belittleing.
[snip]

It would be nice if you'd include a bit of context when you respond to a
post...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:58:34 GMT, "Upscale" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with woodworking,
>but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
>too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice it
>up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
>appreciated and/or tolerated.
>
>http://www.moorecommunications.com

Dave, if you're still reading this thread, you may want to check out
Mease Communications at http://www.measecom.com/.

This guy got _everything_ right. Clean design, consistant across
every page, easy to navigate, no java, and _super_ fast loading.

I haven't explored every page in the site, but it appears that once he
got a basic page template he liked, he rigourously maintained the look
no matter which "services" page he was displaying.

In the finest tradition of website authoring, maybe there's an idea or
two there you can steal. :)

Michael

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:43:05 -0800, "codepath" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>How about a link to it?

A link to Avant Browser? You trollin' me boy? :)
http://www.avantbrowser.com/

Michael (Hook, line, and sinker) Baglio

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:47:12 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on the
>first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST opinons.
>I won't take it too bad,.
>
>Rich
>http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/
>

Recommendations:
No music, or -at least- allow it to be turned off.

No cursor text

Retake pictures without the sofa in the background. Carpet is -almost-
tolerable, but a sofa?

If you're going to sell these items, you want them to look as good as
possible. Take the pictures under controlled lighting, no flash, and
experiment until it looks -good-. Not just "OK", but GOOD. IT can be
done, and you can do it, so why not give yourself the best chance?

Turn off the date/time on the camera.

Set up a table against a solid colored wall with a solid colored
tablecloth, preferably neutral colors unless you -want- contrast. Put
items on table, arrange in pleasing manner.

Include something to indicate scale. A book on the shelf, a feeder
hanging on a tree, a bun and knife on the breadboard, a person holding
a walking stick. Is that bat box 12 inches tall or 36 inches tall?

Take pictures from different angles, heights, distances, light levels.
You can use lamps and drop lights. No direct flash! It glares off
painted surfaces.

Now take some time to sort out the good shots from the so-so shots. BE
RUTHLESS. Make notes and retake if necessary.

If you are like my darling wife and just cannot take a decent picture
to save your life, pay a local pro. Hey, no one can do everything,
right?

How do I (Joe Customer) order your products?

Sorry this got so long, just trying to help.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

"Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Many have mentioned the sound. I didn't hear it - maybe it has been removed
>or perhaps the way my system is set up but don't put sound in. If you want
>to provide sound make it an option with the default to off.


I think the .mp3 file for the music is so large that was still
loading. I went through the whole site, and came back to the main
page several times. Apparently this stuff is for sale, but could not
find any prices, ordering and shipping info, etc. I noticed that a
.mp3 file was still loading when I moved on.

I suspect there is little point in promoting this site in
rec.woodworking. The items displayed are all rather simple craft
projects, well within the capabilities of even our newbies. They are
the things we MAKE, rather than BUY.

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:12:01 -0800, "codepath" <[email protected]>
scribbled:
>
>BTW, that's another thing for your site. Have you tested it out on other
>browsers/versions/platforms (Netscape 4.x, IE 4.x-6.x, Opera on PC & Mac,
>etc). When putting up a web that is to be accessible to the general public,
>you must consider market share and program (and test) it accordingly.
>
>Some features that work fine on your computer (say a Windows XP with IE 6.0)
>may fail (crash, error, or freeze) say a computer with different software
>(say a Mac with Netscape). The last thing that you would want is for a
>component of your web site (like the mouse trails) to crash a potential
>customers computer. They hate that.

True enough. I went to Mike Hide's site on Tripod the other day and my
computer froze. Not even ALT-CTRL-DEL could get it going again. I had
to shut it down on the power bar switch. The same thing happened on
someone else's site on Tripod again yesterday, so it's not Mike's
fault.

I run Windows XP and Opera as my browser, with cookies, pop-ups and
everything else turned off. OBWW - Lee Valley is the only site I allow
to put cookies on my 'puter.

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html

Rich wrote:

> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but
> it's only on the first page along with the annoying following
> words. Remember HONEST opinons. I won't take it too bad,.

Home page:

[1] It's worse than irritating when I have to refuse cookie and
tell my browser NOT to download a plugin - just because someone
wants to dazzle me with the sound quality of my 1" speakers.

[2] Nice wood. I already know what wood looks like - what I
really want to see is a close-up of your products. Lose the wood
and let me see the products well enough that I'm sufficiently
motivated to use one of your links to see more.

[3] I'm over 40. My eyes aren't what they once were. A lot of the
population is in the same boat (it happens to everyone sometime
between the 40th and 50th birthday). I don't trust people who use
tiny or otherwise difficult-to-read print because it usually
means they're trying to hide something from me. This is a /fast/
turn-off.

[4] Recruit the assistance of an anal-retentive English major and
pick up a copy of Strunk and White's style manual at your local
bookstore. It's a tiny book and if you take the trouble to read
it, it'll help you to write readin'.

[5] Lose the link to the page we're already seeing. It's always
nice to have a home; but pretty worthless to have a link to where
we already are. It's clutter and as such distracts from your message.

Shelves and shadow boxes:

[1] Again, loose the self-link.

[2] Just look? At that stuff 'way off in the distance'? I see
some red paint on the blue shelf; but can't tell if it was well
done. If you don't let me see, I'll apply Sturgeon's Law and
conclude that it's not well done (and that you don't really want
me to see it well enough to reach that conclusion until you have
my hard-earned cash in your PayPal account)

[3] I put my trifocals on and tried entering supporting content;
but it just slid off.

Planters:

[1] Self-link

[3][2] Oops! Captions are reversed.

[3] More tiny print. Something about pot included - cool!

Cheese and Bread Boards:

[1] Self-link

[2] Don't tell me they're decorative - show me. I'm much more
interested in knowing something about the materials. What kind of
wood? Are they easy to clean? Are they raw wood or have you
applied a finish? If so, does it pose a health risk?

[3] It wouldn't accept my supporting content here, either.

Bird Feeders:

[1] Self-link

[2] Is suet really peanut butter and seed? Nope (you forced me to
go look it up) suet is the "hard fat deposited around the kidneys
and loins of cattle and sheep: used in cooking and as a source of
tallow." GW Carver and I are led to conclude that you either
don't know what you're talking about or are trying to pull a fast
one.

[3] More small print!

[4] I don't care what you say - even without chains that thing
just can't any good for sitting /anywhere/!

[5] No charge for the starter seed bag? Bull. If there were no
charge, both the products and S&H would be less. How about if you
just say that a small bag of bird seed is included?

Walking sticks:

[1] Self-link

[2] Ah c'mon. I don't want to hear about your intentions; and
I'll only visit again if I see something worth coming back to see
again.

[3] How about backing up to let me see the entire product? Then
get up close enough that I can get really judgmental about the
carving. If I see a particular one I really like, can I buy it?

Birdhouses:

[1] Self-link

[2] About your opening salvo: if you don't chemically oxidize the
copper roof then it'll look like an antique when it becomes one.
Why are you talking about that today?

[3] Other than the screech owl box. What kind of birds, if any,
will be attracted to these birdhouses?

[4] Country appeal? Eh? I'm from Iowa - where're you from again?
Actually I /do/ kind of like the stone house...

The Shop:

[1] Self-link

[2] Holy smokes! That guy's trying to keep track of something on
TV and a photographer and - what's that thing? - OMG it's one of
those things that subtracts fingers when you don't pay attention!

[3] My wish for everyone is that they have a spacious shop with
all kinds of good tools. I'm glad for every square inch of space
that you have - but a /cluttered/ shop is a horror to me. Before
I leave my shop I make myself put everything away and I clean up
the day's mess. If you want to sell what you produce in the shop
(and obviously you do) and if you want to show off the shop, then
you need to at least move the clutter out of the camera's view
for as long as it takes to shoot a picture. There's a
commonly-held perception that a sloppy/cluttered shop indicates
lack of concern for safety and quality.

Overall comments:

Most of the products had a non-price tag "Starting at $". Please
tell me the price without introducing the inconvenience of an
e-mail or phone call. If I go through that exercise and the
quoted price doesn't closely match the web page price, you'll
have lost any chance that I might buy or ever visit again.

I missed the address and phone, by the way. Unless you expect me
to e-mail a check, some real contact information would help us
both. FWIW, I won't order from a web vendor if I don't know who
and where they really are.

Just realized I missed bat boxes - and then realized that none of
your stuff has any measurements. Real bird people would probably
care. I assume there are real bat people out there who'd be
interested in the size of the bat box. I'm not a bat affectionado
but confess curiosity about how big a box would be needed to hold
100+ live bats who'd enter voluntarily.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:47:12 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
said:

>Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on the
>first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST opinons.
>I won't take it too bad,.
>
>Rich
>http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/
>

line + hook + bait = bites...... lotsa bites.

TomL

ya know what they say in Hollywood, even BAD publicity is still publicity

rich

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:04:43 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Now thats what I call constructive criticism! Not only did it show me where
>corrections can be made but it also showed how without being belittleing.
>Thanks Mike, I will work on it and get some better pictures in there. The
>music and cursor text will go to the wayside. I tried like heck to get the
>wolf sizing better but I couldn't get it to work.
>I have been fuming over some of the posts, guess I took it to heart which I
>shouldn't have but I'm only human.Thats a great idea about showing scale in
>the pictures and how to accomplish that.
>Well, thanks again and I'll work on it.
>
>Rich
>

Hope it helps.

Another small piece of advice - if you're gonna hang out on Usenet,
you gotta get a thick skin.

Aside from the fact that it's very easy to misunderstand intent in the
written word, there are a lot of people who are -very- smart but not
socially skilled who hang out here.

I'm a technogeek myself and some of the most intelligent people I know
mean well, but are hard to interact with. If their only means of
communication were typing, they'd be lynched in short order. :-)

Took me about 20 years out of school to learn how to deal with people
myself.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

"GSX" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:L01%b.5260$UU.32@lakeread01...

> The music was enough to drive me
> away.

It has music? I won't even bother going then. Last thing I need is for
music to suddenly blast when I'm browsing late at night while my wife is
asleep or if there is a meeting going on in the office at work.
Ed

It made my dog bark a lot.

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on
the
> first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST
opinons.
> I won't take it too bad,.
>
> Rich
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/
>
>

"Rick Gibson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:_n9%[email protected]...
> I design web pages for Christian churches and organizations and have found
> the simpler the better. The page is for the viewer or customer not the
> designer. If it loads to slowly or has annoying features they will leave
and

Ok, I'll stick my neck out. It doesn't have anything to do with woodworking,
but I'd appreciate an opinion of my business website, mostly finished not
too long ago. To me it seems a little drab and I was wonder how to spice it
up a bit without going overboard. Any comments good or bad will be
appreciated and/or tolerated.

http://www.moorecommunications.com

Now thats what I call constructive criticism! Not only did it show me where
corrections can be made but it also showed how without being belittleing.
Thanks Mike, I will work on it and get some better pictures in there. The
music and cursor text will go to the wayside. I tried like heck to get the
wolf sizing better but I couldn't get it to work.
I have been fuming over some of the posts, guess I took it to heart which I
shouldn't have but I'm only human.Thats a great idea about showing scale in
the pictures and how to accomplish that.
Well, thanks again and I'll work on it.

Rich

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:48:09 +0000, gabriel <[email protected]> wrote:

>Rich wrote:
>
>> Boy either your all brutal or you need to drink your coffee!
>
>Rich, don't let these guys get to you. It's waaay to easy to be an
>asshole when you're not in front of the people whose work you're putting
>down.
>
>When any of these insensitive fools make their own web site and have the
>balls to point it out for critique, then will they even be at your level.
>
>Also remember, critics are a dime a dozen, people who actually do things,
>are much harder to find.
>
>For example: Did I ever mention how I think Sam Malloof rocking chairs
>stink cuz they look like they are taken right out of "BeetleJuice"? Of
>course I will not mention that I have never even tried to make a rocking
>chair... Does this statement sound reasonable? No, it's just a shithead
>talking trash. That's what some of these posts regarding your web site
>are.



pot.... kettle....

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:18:57 GMT, "Rich" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:

>Boy either your all brutal or you need to drink your coffee!

"Honest" turns to "brutal" when it's opposite to your
own thoughts. Just because everyone can make a website
(or put pigtails in an inkwell, drive drunk, shoot into
a crowd, etc.) doesn't mean they necessarily _should_,
does it?


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==========================================================
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design

"Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hope this time we get better reviews. I left the music, but it's only on
the
> first page along with the annoying following words. Remember HONEST
opinons.
> I won't take it too bad,.
>
> Rich
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res7t99c/

Can't tolerate it. I won't bother with a webpage that has music I can't
control, and the mouse trails are irritating as heck.

Jon E