OT: Vacuum to pull thread through conduit...?

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:38:43 GMT, [email protected] (Doug
Miller) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>As I drove, I kept thinking "drugstore... torpedo shaped...
>>flexible... strong enough to take the abrasion... I then
>>remembered the suggestion that it be lubricated if
>>possible..."
>
>See here for another unusual use of the same:
>http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.rural/msg/95161c507175473f
>That was me, some years back...

Hey Doug,

Had it gone another way, the resulting fire would also have
taken care of the bees I suppose...<g>

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

For a mouse that will work alongside the two existing wires, use a ball
of cotton. Put a short wire through the middle of the mouse to attach
to a nylon pull cord. Put a large flat washer ahead of the mouse to
hold the string in place. Start the mouse and hook a good shop vac to
the other end of the conduit. The mouse will run through and pull the
cord through.

When you pull in the new cable, run a new pull cord with it for future
reference.

If you pull new cable, always put a pull cord with it- ALWAYS!.

Pull either another phone wire or network cable (whichever is cheaper)
along with the fiber optic wire, using either the old phone or network
cable. Reconnect the new phone/network cable and then take your time
figuring out the fiber optic connection.

Bob's your uncle.

Jamie

Kenneth wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>

I would use something small like a foam ear plug or cotton ball. It probably
won't work since there are already wires in it. May just have to use the one
wire to pull a small nylon cord through. That's a very long run. GOod luck
Russ
Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

We use a combination of blowing and sucking all the time. With the
distance you have to go I recommend working from both directions.
Problem #1 the existing cables, problem #2 most existing conduits in
the ground are full of water, at least here in the northwest. You can
blow this out if you have enough air pressure. A mouse won't work
with existing wires in the pipe. What works well sometimes when
nothing else will is a plastic baggie that can conform to different
shapes pulling a string made for this. If I was bidding the job
thought I would price it on using an existing wire for a pull line.
I'd give the pull line a couple of tries then go for the sure thing to
keep the labor down.
MikeM



On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:33:07 -0500, Kenneth
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Howdy,
>
>I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
>now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
>cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
>I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
>I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
>shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
>in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
>ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
>there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
>conduit.
>
>(I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
>cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
>I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
>Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
>Thanks for any help,
>

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:28:05 -0800, "NorthIdahoWWer"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Wouldn't that suck? heh heh
>
>"Kenneth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
>> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
>> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>>
>> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>>
>> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
>> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
>> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
>> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
>> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
>> conduit.
>>
>> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
>> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
>> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>>
>> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>>
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>

Howdy,

To all kind enough to respond, and to those others who held
me and my conduit in their prayers I offer the following:

It seemed that I had very little to lose by trying the
balloon approach...

First, I got my shopvac in place and sealed its hose around
the conduit's junction box. That box is glued in place so
that process took about a mile of duct tape.

I then went the 400' or so to my barn (the other building
from which I wish to pull the fiber cable.)

To my pleasant surprise, the vacuum was strong.

I turned off the shopvac, jumped into the car, and headed
for our small town to get some balloons.

The only place likely to have them was the drugstore because
it has a "party section."

As I drove, I kept thinking "drugstore... torpedo shaped...
flexible... strong enough to take the abrasion... I then
remembered the suggestion that it be lubricated if
possible..."

I pulled into the drugstore parking lot, ran to the
pharmacist and asked:

"Do you have any urethane condoms?"

"Yes", she said! "They are right over there."

I drove to my barn with a familiar anticipation perhaps
reminiscent of the last time I had purchased condoms years
ago.

I inflated my purchase slightly, tied it to the thread, ran
to my home and started the shopvac.

I ran back to the barn, placed the condom near the opening
of the conduit and then with one gulp it was gone.

The thread came off the spool so fast that it whistled...

Thanks to all of you, the pull thread is in place!

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

In article <[email protected]>, Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:

>As I drove, I kept thinking "drugstore... torpedo shaped...
>flexible... strong enough to take the abrasion... I then
>remembered the suggestion that it be lubricated if
>possible..."

See here for another unusual use of the same:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.rural/msg/95161c507175473f
That was me, some years back...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:33:07 -0500, the inscrutable Kenneth
<[email protected]> spake:

>
>Howdy,
>
>I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
>now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
>cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
>I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
>I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
>shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
>in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
>ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
>there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
>conduit.

I wouldn't try it in anything other than an empty conduit.


>(I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
>cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
>I have its fiber replacement working.)

Attach the cord to the network cable and pull it through. Now
add the fiber cable and pull both through with the cord. You'll
be done in an hour with original cable installed as a backup.

When you attach the cord, make sure to taper the tape onto the
cable, preventing sharp edges, so it doesn't become an obstacle.


--
"Menja bé, caga fort!"

Kenneth wrote:
> Howdy,

> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)

While I admire the novel approach to your predicament, I suspect that
the ping-pong ball and thread (I would use nylon monofiliment fishing
line myself) will never work for the simple reason that even if it would
fit in the conduit, you have two lines in there now which will 1) act as
spacers reducing the already meager vacuum attained in a 300' plus run
and 2) they will be twisted about in there and form a "solid" block to
any such ball that would fit. The ball might make it some distance but
the odds are that you're going to bog down in a number of places.

Frankly, you don't say how big the diameter of the conduit is but here's
what I'd do.

Disconnect the phone cable at both ends and use your phone cable to pull
through the lead cord to pull BOTH the fiber-optic cable and phone cable
back through.

The way I see it you're going to lose either the phone service or
network connection to accomplish this. In either event you shouldn't be
without the service for much more than an hour.

In article <[email protected]>, Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
>shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
>in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
>ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
>there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
>conduit.

Yep, that works. All you need is something lightweight with a reasonable
surface area for the vacuum to grab hold of. Here's what has worked for me:
tear off about an inch, inch and a half of masking tape, and fold it against
itself around the end of a string so it makes a kind of "flag".

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

This is the most practical response yet.

One addition: Add a second pull cable along with the fiber-optic cable
and phone cable. Leave this in the conduit for when you need to pull yet
another cable in the future.

Art


"Unquestionably Confused" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

While I admire the novel approach to your predicament, I suspect that
the ping-pong ball and thread (I would use nylon monofiliment fishing
line myself) will never work for the simple reason that even if it would
fit in the conduit, you have two lines in there now which will 1) act as
spacers reducing the already meager vacuum attained in a 300' plus run
and 2) they will be twisted about in there and form a "solid" block to
any such ball that would fit. The ball might make it some distance but
the odds are that you're going to bog down in a number of places.

Frankly, you don't say how big the diameter of the conduit is but here's
what I'd do.

Disconnect the phone cable at both ends and use your phone cable to pull
through the lead cord to pull BOTH the fiber-optic cable and phone cable
back through.

The way I see it you're going to lose either the phone service or
network connection to accomplish this. In either event you shouldn't be
without the service for much more than an hour.

Wouldn't that suck? heh heh

"Kenneth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

The last seems to be the MOST reliable idea! At least that way you would
still have both options.

Searcher1

Kenneth wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
Greetings,

I have pulled one cable across another with the result of
the pulled cable cutting through the insulation and into
the conductor of the other cable.

I suggest you take the advice to use the existing cable
to pull a pull line into the conduit and then pull a new
set of cables. Also, take the advice to use a lubricant
designed for cable pulling.

Good luck. You will need it. Have a plan for what to do
if the existing cable breaks before you get the pull line
through. You have a very long run, 360 feet. Talk to
some people who regularly pull cables this distance. Tell
them what you plan to pull and the size of the conduit.

Sincerely,
Bill Thomas

Several years ago I watched an electrician run computer cable lines from one
building to the next under a parking lot. The run was about 500 feet. He
used what looked like a toy parachute tied on to the end of nylon string and
then pulled the cable back with the string.

Kenneth wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.)

It's known as a "mouse" by most electrical contractors, but in this
application forget it since you already have cable in the conduit.

Buy new 500 ft spools of each cable, a bucket of wire-ez, and a take up
winch and have at it, using one of the existing wires to pull the new
stuff thru, assuming the conduit is large enough.

May be able to sell off the old stuff for scrap value.

Having been to this movie, suggest you have somebody who has the tools
do it.

Even with a strong back, this is not a DIY job.

HTH

Lew

"Searcher 1" <[email protected]> wrote in news:ROrUd.15096
$QQ3.14619@trnddc02:

> The last seems to be the MOST reliable idea! At least that way you would
> still have both options.
>
> Searcher1
>
>

Pull a new pull cord with the bundle as well.

And the wires you pull should be as 'dense' as you can afford. ie: 12
strands of fiber optic, in one sheath, take insignificantly more space than
2 or 4 strands.

And, if it will fit, pull extra copper as well.

The air-blown fiber is a tested method, but not so effective for in-service
retrofits, as I recall.

Thinking about this, if you're doing a lot of this, you will want to do
this in a maintenance window. The chance is not trivial that you will mess
up the data cable you didn't want to disturb.

Patriarch,
who HATES pulling cable in the middle of the night on Saturday...

Others have indicated several methods you could try, however, none may work.
A 340' foot pull is a long pull and even in the best conditions (clean
conduit, large size conduit, properly lubed cable etc.) you may not be able
to get anything through the existing conduit or get either of the existing
wires out. Pulling too hard on a cable can damage the cables insulation or
conductor or both. Proceed with caution or you may have to completely
replace everything. Each situation is different and luck needs to be a
lady. One thing you might want to consider is installing a pull box
somewhere near the center of the run. OR if not too difficult install two
or more pull boxes. Your chances of success will greatly improve with
shorter runs.
Earl Creel
"Kenneth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
(SNIP)

I agree, but would also 'grease' the new cables. Soapy water at a minimum
if you are worried about degrading the insulation.

--

Too much is not enough!
rvojtash NOT THIS at comcast (dot) net

Kenneth wrote:

>
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
> Thanks for any help,

You could, of course, try the _original_ method--the device that gets blown
by air pressure is, as others have pointed out, called a "mouse", but the
reason for it is that before compressors were readily available, a _real_
mouse was used, pulling a string as he went after a piece of smelly cheese
at the other end. Suggest using a piece of "glide" dental floss as your
first messenger if you do that, it's light and it's low-friction so the
mouse should be able to haul it--once it's through then pull successively
heavier monofilament until you've got something that will handle the fiber.
Neat thing about mice is that they can get through holes you wouldn't
believe. Annoying thing is that if the hole isn't quite big enough they'll
adjust the size to the detriment of your cables.


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

A small balloon can be made just the right size to suck through as well.


"Kenneth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.

I have done this with a piece of crumbled up newspaper. I attach a piece
of fishing line to the newspaper crumple ball and suck it through with
the shop vac. Once you have the fishing line through - you can gently
pull the cable through. Good luck.
Harry

Kenneth <[email protected]> writes:
>
>Howdy,
>

>(I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
>cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
>I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
>Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?

Use the network cable to pull both a new network cable and
the fiber at the same time (or a new network cable and a
pull string)>

scott

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:33:07 -0500, Kenneth
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Howdy,
>
>I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
>now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
>cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
>I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
>I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
>shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
>in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
>ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
>there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
>conduit.
>
>(I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
>cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
>I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
>Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
>Thanks for any help,
>
Try a plug cut from isocyanurate insulation board (aka pink or blue
foam)

In article <[email protected]>,
Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
> now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
> cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
> I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
> I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
> shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
> in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
> ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
> there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
> conduit.
>
> (I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
> cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
> I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
> Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
> Thanks for any help,

If the conduit was empty, I think you might have a chance of getting a
messenger through it with air pressure. But given that you've already got
a couple of cables in there, I'd be very surprised if you could get it to
work.

Kenneth wrote:

>Howdy,
>
>I have a underground conduit that runs about 340'. Right
>now, it holds two wires (a networking cable, and a phone
>cable) but there is no pull cord.
>
>I want to pull a fiber optic cable...
>
>I have been told that with the proper setup one can use a
>shop vac to pull a thread through the conduit (the thread,
>in turn, pulling a cord etc.) It was suggested to me that a
>ping pong ball attached to the thread would do the deed, but
>there is not sufficient space for the ball to enter the
>conduit.
>
>(I should add that I could use the network cable as the pull
>cord, but I would strongly prefer leaving it in place until
>I have its fiber replacement working.)
>
>Anybody out there know how to approach this hassle?
>
>Thanks for any help,
>
>
>
i have pulled a string through using a piece of sponge that was cut
round but slightly bigger than the conduit internal diameter. The shop
vac pulled it just fine.