I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At first
I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it would
drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in the past.
Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No success.
The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is still oily so
I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially since I have been
able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to use any gorilla glue
or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
I am looking for ideas folks!
TIA.
Dick Snyder
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>> I think I will have to do that. Here is a picture of a healthy chair to
>> give you and idea of what I am talking about
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
> ----------------------------------------------
> Google wants me to sign in.
>
> SCREW THAT NOISE.
>
> Lew
>
>
See if this works for you any better Lew
https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001?authkey=CLPUsZSRlqyGjQE
Dick
On Sunday, June 8, 2014 12:37:08 PM UTC-7, Dick Snyder wrote:
> There are no corner blocks. That looks like a possible thing I can do once
> I have rebuilt the joint with dowels and epoxy. Thanks.
GACK! Epoxy has NO tolerance for future disassembly! If this is to be
a long-lived chair, consider instead using hide glue, perhaps thickened
with those microballoons that were mentioned earlier. Your
grandkids will be posting here in a few decades with a bigger problem
if you use epoxy!
"Dick Snyder" wrote:
>I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back.
>At first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little
>so it would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always
>worked in the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair
>Doctor glue. No success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't
>think the teak is still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with
>acetone, especially since I have been able to make other repairs in
>the past. I don't want to use any gorilla glue or polyurethane glue
>due to the squeeze out mess.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Do yourself a favor and forget gorilla glue or polyurethane glue.
Strictly garbage.
At 30 years of age, these chairs don't owe you anything but
you do owe them something.
You are probably not going to like my approach because it is a
LOT of work, but here goes.
Start by taking chair apart and clean out all the old adhesives
back to bare wood.
Dry fit all the pieces back together and blue tape the exposed
surfaces to prevent squeeze out problems later.
Now take all pieces apart and arrange for glue up using laminating
epoxy with a slow hardener which will give you about 25 minute
pot life at 25C (77F).
You may also need some microballoons to thicken the epoxy.
Once you start playing with the mixed resin/hardener, you'll
figure that out.
Once assembled, use those cloth straps to hold pieces in position.
Allow 2-3 days for epoxy to trip and cure past green state, but not
fully cured.
At this point, remove straps and tape.
Talk to System 3 for the particular epoxy they suggest for
this application.
They have a very good tech service group.
This time around, the epoxy joints will outlast the wood.
Have fun.
Lew
"Dick Snyder" wrote:
> I think I will have to do that. Here is a picture of a healthy chair
> to give you and idea of what I am talking about
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
----------------------------------------------
Google wants me to sign in.
SCREW THAT NOISE.
Lew
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
>> Google wants me to sign in.
>>
>> SCREW THAT NOISE.
---------------------------------------------
"Dick Snyder" wrote:
> I can't tell you how much I hate google+. I use Picasa to edit my
> photos. A year ago the big brothers at google decided that my photos
> needed to be shared with their very lame competitor to Facebook
> (which I don't use but my daughter tells me that Facebook is 1000%
> better than Google+). Supposedly I could share the photos so anyone
> could look at them but apparently I failed. I will try again.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Picasa works.
How about alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking?
Lew
"Dick Snyder" wrote:
>>
> I have tried to share the picture of my chair but google+ keeps
> sticking it to me. If you have not been able to view the picture
> without being forced to log in, try this link:
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001?authkey=CLPUsZSRlqyGjQE
------------------------------------------------
That got thru, thank you.
After seeing the the chair, the more convinced I am that
a rebuild with epoxy is the way to go.
Lew
Dick Snyder wrote:
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 5/29/2014 12:45 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>>>> I am looking for ideas folks!
>>>>
>>>> Need more information, without which any advice is assumption based:
>>>>
>>>> What kind of joint?
>>>>
>>>> Pictures?
>>
>>> There are two tenons coming from the chair frame to the leg
>>
>> Still don't know size, thickness and how much room you have to work with,
>> and since previous attempts at gluing have not worked, do you feel up to
>> pegging the tenons, perhaps using an epoxy as the adhesive?
>>
>> --
>> eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
>> Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
>> https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
>> https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
>> http://www.custommade.com/by/ewood> Karl
>
> Caillouet@ (the obvious)
> Previous attempts until now have worked but not any more. I could peg the
> tenons but then this chair would look different than it's 5 other brothers
> and sisters. I may not have any choice but I am hoping to keep it looking
> the same.
>
> I *hope* you can see a picture here
> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
>
> Dick
>
>
Sign up to tinypic, very easy, then all can see your pic
Dick Snyder wrote:
>>> There are no corner blocks. That looks like a possible thing I
>>> can do once
>>> I have rebuilt the joint with dowels and epoxy. Thanks.
-------------------------------------------------
whit3rd wrote:
>>GACK! Epoxy has NO tolerance for future disassembly!
----------------------------------------------------
I would certainly hope not.
Properly done, the epoxy repaired joint will out last the wood.
Lew
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
I wrote:
>>> Properly done, the epoxy repaired joint will out last the wood.
>>>
>>> Lew
--------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:
> But often chairs are broken and not at a joint. Then what do you do
> when you need a to replace a part and the ends in the joint are not
> coming out.
---------------------------------------------
Getting involved with a hypothetical is a road to nowhere IMHO.
Examination of the damage on a case by case event when it has
happened is another matter.
It's amazing what kind of repairs can be made with a little glass,
some resin, a little filler and some imagination.
Lew
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
>> first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it
>> would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in
>> the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue.
>> No success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is
>> still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially
>> since I have been able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to
>> use any gorilla glue or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>>
>> I am looking for ideas folks!
>
>
> How loose are they? What kind of joints? Any mechanical fasteners?
Pretty loose. I have glued them before with yellow glue thinned with a
little warm water but it isn't working this time. No mechanical fasteners.
Just mortise and tenon.
>
>
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
> Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>
" I am looking for ideas folks! TIA. Dick Snyder"
**********************************************
Being sensitive to cosmetics, this will not be appealing.
The seat rail to rear leg is the most stressed connection in a chair.
Ergo the double tenon. Notwithstanding, the joint has been compressed, contaminated and adulterated. You might save with epoxy but nothing beats
steel x-dowels and screws.
An option with no pull strength compromise.
Finding the intersect a problem?: See http://patwarner.com/cross_dowel_locator.html
On 6/1/2014 12:42 PM, Swingman wrote:
> These type of mechanical reinforced joints are common in factory made
> chairs these days and are actually much stronger than they appear as
> long as the screws are routinely tightened.
>
> If there is room to add something of this nature to the seat frame/leg
> area, that, along with even a mediocre joint repair, may give your chair
> a new lease on life.
Getting old ... I had completely forgotten that I had photographically
documented the above repair, more or less.
Can't tell, from lack of seeing the actual joinery in the chair itself,
if this helps from an idea perspective or not, but nothing ventured...
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningChairRepair?noredirect=1
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 5/29/2014 12:45 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> I am looking for ideas folks!
>>
>> Need more information, without which any advice is assumption based:
>>
>> What kind of joint?
>>
>> Pictures?
> There are two tenons coming from the chair frame to the leg
Still don't know size, thickness and how much room you have to work
with, and since previous attempts at gluing have not worked, do you feel
up to pegging the tenons, perhaps using an epoxy as the adhesive?
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 6/10/2014 9:04 PM, Morgans wrote:
>>>> GACK! Epoxy has NO tolerance for future disassembly!
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>> I would certainly hope not.
>>
>> Properly done, the epoxy repaired joint will out last the wood.
>>
>> Lew
>
> +1
>
> That's what I was thinkin. Done right, it should not have needed repair
> now. Do it right and it will never need repair again.
But often chairs are broken and not at a joint. Then what do you do
when you need a to replace a part and the ends in the joint are not
coming out.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
>
>>> Google wants me to sign in.
>>>
>>> SCREW THAT NOISE.
> ---------------------------------------------
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>> I can't tell you how much I hate google+. I use Picasa to edit my photos.
>> A year ago the big brothers at google decided that my photos needed to be
>> shared with their very lame competitor to Facebook (which I don't use but
>> my daughter tells me that Facebook is 1000% better than Google+).
>> Supposedly I could share the photos so anyone could look at them but
>> apparently I failed. I will try again.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Picasa works.
>
> How about alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking?
>
> Lew
That is a thought. I just tried a different way to share that picture
without forcing anyting to log into Google. Just click a link and off you
go. Please give it a try and let me know if it worked.
"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
>>first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it
>>would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in
>>the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No
>>success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is
>>still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially
>>since I have been able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to
>>use any gorilla glue or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>>
>> I am looking for ideas folks!
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
> Is there any way you can fit wedges into the tenons? Presuming these are
> mortise/tenon joints.
> Another thought. Clamp the joints hard and drill through legs & tenons.
> Glue in hardwood dowels and make good as necessary.
> Nick.
The outside surfaces of the legs are very visible. Even if I could make a
perfect dowel from teak or at least a teak cap on a dowel hole, it would be
quite visitble on the chair. If I can't come up with something else, I will
try that path but I hope I can find another way Nick.
"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
>>first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it
>>would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in
>>the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No
>>success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is
>>still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially
>>since I have been able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to
>>use any gorilla glue or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>>
>> I am looking for ideas folks!
>>
>> TIA.
>>
>> Dick Snyder
> Is there any way you can fit wedges into the tenons? Presuming these are
> mortise/tenon joints.
> Another thought. Clamp the joints hard and drill through legs & tenons.
> Glue in hardwood dowels and make good as necessary.
> Nick.
The legs are very visible where I would have to drill. Even if I made teak
dowels, they would be very visible. It is a good idea as a last chance move.
I can not put wedges in for the same reason - visibility.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>>I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
>>first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it
>>would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in
>>the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No
>>success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is
>>still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially
>>since I have been able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to
>>use any gorilla glue or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Do yourself a favor and forget gorilla glue or polyurethane glue.
>
> Strictly garbage.
>
> At 30 years of age, these chairs don't owe you anything but
> you do owe them something.
>
> You are probably not going to like my approach because it is a
> LOT of work, but here goes.
>
> Start by taking chair apart and clean out all the old adhesives
> back to bare wood.
>
> Dry fit all the pieces back together and blue tape the exposed
> surfaces to prevent squeeze out problems later.
>
> Now take all pieces apart and arrange for glue up using laminating
> epoxy with a slow hardener which will give you about 25 minute
> pot life at 25C (77F).
>
> You may also need some microballoons to thicken the epoxy.
>
> Once you start playing with the mixed resin/hardener, you'll
> figure that out.
>
> Once assembled, use those cloth straps to hold pieces in position.
>
> Allow 2-3 days for epoxy to trip and cure past green state, but not
> fully cured.
>
> At this point, remove straps and tape.
>
> Talk to System 3 for the particular epoxy they suggest for
> this application.
>
> They have a very good tech service group.
>
> This time around, the epoxy joints will outlast the wood.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
>
>
These chairs and the matching teak table (I did some posting regarding
stains on this table in the last month or two) are the furniture we have
owned the longest. I will do what it takes to keep it in the family. After a
trip to Denmark in the late 60's we fell in love with teak furniture. We
have a number of pieces but the table and chairs are our oldest pieces. I
recently made a teak entertainment center for a vacation house but that teak
looks very different than our furniture which has a very blonde look. Thanks
for the suggestions Lew.
"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:45:00 PM UTC-5, Dick Snyder wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote in message
>
> > What kind of joint?
> There are two tenons coming from the chair frame to the leg
Or is that two tenons coming from the seat frame? Two tenons at each of
the 2 back corners of the seat frame? Hence, there are 2 mortises, 90
degrees to one another, one on each of 2 faces of each back leg? Like
this:
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1PQHA_enUS574US586&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=865&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=mortise+%26+tenon+seat%2Fleg+joinery&oq=mortise+%26+tenon+seat%2Fleg+joinery&gs_l=img.3...67516.86774.0.89651.54.40.3.3.3.3.335.5361.4j30j0j2.36.0....0...1c.1.45.img..35.19.2192.dCPtmcqhf98#facrc=_&imgrc=WTeSDVbWBVGZvM%253A%3Bw_TjpM-ObOCCPM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.craftsmanspace.com%252Fsites%252Fdefault%252Ffiles%252Ffree-knowledge-articles%252Finterlocking_tenon_and_mortise_joint_for_seat_rails_of_chair_to_leg.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.craftsmanspace.com%252Fknowledge%252Fmortise-and-tenon-woodworking-joints.html%3B1000%3B589
If the above is correct, are there no other joints, on the chair, loose?
Sonny
Both of the rear joints are loose, one worse than the other:
https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
This is a picture of a healthy chair, not the one I am working on
Dick
On 6/11/2014 12:41 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> >But often chairs are broken and not at a joint. Then what do you do
>> >when you need a to replace a part and the ends in the joint are not
>> >coming out.
> ---------------------------------------------
> Getting involved with a hypothetical is a road to nowhere IMHO.
When it comes to things made of wood, the lack of foresight in that
statement is pretty much what's wrong with this lazy minded culture.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 6/1/2014 12:42 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> These type of mechanical reinforced joints are common in factory made
>> chairs these days and are actually much stronger than they appear as
>> long as the screws are routinely tightened.
>>
>> If there is room to add something of this nature to the seat frame/leg
>> area, that, along with even a mediocre joint repair, may give your chair
>> a new lease on life.
>
> Getting old ... I had completely forgotten that I had photographically
> documented the above repair, more or less.
>
> Can't tell, from lack of seeing the actual joinery in the chair itself, if
> this helps from an idea perspective or not, but nothing ventured...
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningChairRepair?noredirect=1
>
> --
> eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
> Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
> https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
> https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
> http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
> KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Nice work Karl. I appreciate that sequence of repairs that you had to do. My
chairs are not nearly as the bad as the "how the hell did they do that?"
before picture but there are some nice ideas in there/.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>" I am looking for ideas folks! TIA. Dick Snyder"
> **********************************************
> Being sensitive to cosmetics, this will not be appealing.
> The seat rail to rear leg is the most stressed connection in a chair.
> Ergo the double tenon. Notwithstanding, the joint has been compressed,
> contaminated and adulterated. You might save with epoxy but nothing beats
> steel x-dowels and screws.
> An option with no pull strength compromise.
> Finding the intersect a problem?: See
> http://patwarner.com/cross_dowel_locator.html
Yipes! I hope I don't have to go there but thanks for the idea if all else
fails.
Here is a picture to help you visualize
https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
Dick
On 5/28/2014 6:07 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At first
> I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it would
> drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in the past.
> Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No success.
> The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is still oily so
> I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially since I have been
> able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to use any gorilla glue
> or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>
> I am looking for ideas folks!
Need more information, without which any advice is assumption based:
What kind of joint?
Pictures?
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
>first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it
>would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in
>the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No
>success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is
>still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially since
>I have been able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to use any
>gorilla glue or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>
> I am looking for ideas folks!
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
Is there any way you can fit wedges into the tenons? Presuming these are
mortise/tenon joints.
Another thought. Clamp the joints hard and drill through legs & tenons. Glue
in hardwood dowels and make good as necessary.
Nick.
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
>first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it
>would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in
>the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No
>success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is
>still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially since
>I have been able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to use any
>gorilla glue or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>
> I am looking for ideas folks!
>
> TIA.
>
> Dick Snyder
>
I have tried to share the picture of my chair but google+ keeps sticking it
to me. If you have not been able to view the picture without being forced to
log in, try this link:
https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001?authkey=CLPUsZSRlqyGjQE
Dick
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:45:00 PM UTC-5, Dick Snyder wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote in message=20
>=20
> > What kind of joint?
=20
> There are two tenons coming from the chair frame to the leg
Or is that two tenons coming from the seat frame? Two tenons at each of t=
he 2 back corners of the seat frame? Hence, there are 2 mortises, 90 degr=
ees to one another, one on each of 2 faces of each back leg? Like this: h=
ttps://www.google.com/search?rlz=3D1C1PQHA_enUS574US586&espv=3D2&biw=3D1280=
&bih=3D865&tbm=3Disch&sa=3D1&q=3Dmortise+%26+tenon+seat%2Fleg+joinery&oq=3D=
mortise+%26+tenon+seat%2Fleg+joinery&gs_l=3Dimg.3...67516.86774.0.89651.54.=
40.3.3.3.3.335.5361.4j30j0j2.36.0....0...1c.1.45.img..35.19.2192.dCPtmcqhf9=
8#facrc=3D_&imgrc=3DWTeSDVbWBVGZvM%253A%3Bw_TjpM-ObOCCPM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%2=
52Fwww.craftsmanspace.com%252Fsites%252Fdefault%252Ffiles%252Ffree-knowledg=
e-articles%252Finterlocking_tenon_and_mortise_joint_for_seat_rails_of_chair=
_to_leg.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.craftsmanspace.com%252Fknowledge%252Fm=
ortise-and-tenon-woodworking-joints.html%3B1000%3B589
If the above is correct, are there no other joints, on the chair, loose?
Sonny
On 6/11/2014 12:41 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> I wrote:
>
>>>> Properly done, the epoxy repaired joint will out last the wood.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> But often chairs are broken and not at a joint. Then what do you do
>> when you need a to replace a part and the ends in the joint are not
>> coming out.
> ---------------------------------------------
> Getting involved with a hypothetical is a road to nowhere IMHO.
One could easily say the same thing about being prepared for the
unsuspected when sailing.
Actually it is quite likely that this chair in question will have a
broken part in the future. It is not much of a hypothetical stretch to
consider a chair that is used enough to loosen the joints will need to
be repaired again in the future in some other way. Assemble it with
epoxy and you essentially make future repairs much more difficult or
impossible. Part of this societies, throw away mentality vs. built to
be repaired, mentality I guess.
So the hood on my truck vibrates on the highway because the latch does
not hold it securely. If I epoxy it in place, problem solved?
>
> Examination of the damage on a case by case event when it has
> happened is another matter.
>
> It's amazing what kind of repairs can be made with a little glass,
> some resin, a little filler and some imagination.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>> > How loose are they? What kind of joints? Any mechanical fasteners?
>>
>> Pretty loose. I have glued them before with yellow glue thinned with a
>> little warm water but it isn't working this time. No mechanical
>> fasteners.
>> Just mortise and tenon.
>
> Is it possible to disassemble them?
>
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
> Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
> Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
>
I think I will have to do that. Here is a picture of a healthy chair to give
you and idea of what I am talking about
https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
Dick
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 12:52:01 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Sunday, June 8, 2014 12:37:08 PM UTC-7, Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>> There are no corner blocks. That looks like a possible thing I can do once
>> I have rebuilt the joint with dowels and epoxy. Thanks.
>
>GACK! Epoxy has NO tolerance for future disassembly! If this is to be
>a long-lived chair, consider instead using hide glue, perhaps thickened
>with those microballoons that were mentioned earlier. Your
>grandkids will be posting here in a few decades with a bigger problem
>if you use epoxy!
Repair all of the parts first. Here you can use apoxy with no
problems. Then assemble the parts back into a chair, using proper
fasteners, and possibly non-epoxy glue that will allow future
dissassembly. Epoxy could be used to fasten dowels into one part,
particularly if the dowel fit in that part is loose due to wear. If
the hole the dowel fits to in the other part is also sloppy, epoxy can
be used to build up the material around the hole to resize and
re-enforce it. Drill the repaired hole to the right size for the
dowel, and re-assemble.
Just one or 2 ways epoxy can be used without making it impossible to
dissassemble and repair in the future.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/29/2014 12:45 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>>> I am looking for ideas folks!
>>>
>>> Need more information, without which any advice is assumption based:
>>>
>>> What kind of joint?
>>>
>>> Pictures?
>
>> There are two tenons coming from the chair frame to the leg
>
> Still don't know size, thickness and how much room you have to work with,
> and since previous attempts at gluing have not worked, do you feel up to
> pegging the tenons, perhaps using an epoxy as the adhesive?
>
> --
> eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
> Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
> https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
> https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
> http://www.custommade.com/by/ewood> Karl
Caillouet@ (the obvious)
Previous attempts until now have worked but not any more. I could peg the
tenons but then this chair would look different than it's 5 other brothers
and sisters. I may not have any choice but I am hoping to keep it looking
the same.
I *hope* you can see a picture here
https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
Dick
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On 5/29/2014 8:49 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> ...
>
>> See if this works for you any better Lew
> ...
>
> Which are we looking at????
>
> You say it's loose; can you go ahead and disassemble the chair and thus
> have access rework the joinery? If it's loose and has been for a while,
> likely it started with the tenon shrinking slightly, then the glue failure
> followed by subsequent mechanical compression as the loading shifts now
> that it is and has been loose.
>
> Not likely anything will serve long term without some help of refitting
> the joint. Even the dowel will, I expect, compress it and elongate the
> holes with time under loading if it is left as a loose joint and that's
> the only repair.
>
> Don't show the underside; is it such it would be feasible to add the
> internal to the seat rail corner blocks?
>
> But, were they mine and I was serious about long-term retention, I'd be
> investigating the disassembly route.
>
Lew Hodgett said the same thing. I have decided to bite the bullet. I have
disassembled enough to see that I was wrong. There is not a mortise and
tenon but dowels. It being summer my work will go slowly but I will report
back.
Soak it in water.....
Like a dried out splitting mall or ax....handles get loose.
I know.....what a dumb idea...
john
"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At first
I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it would
drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in the past.
Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No success.
The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is still oily so
I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially since I have been
able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to use any gorilla glue
or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
I am looking for ideas folks!
TIA.
Dick Snyder
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
> first I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it
> would drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in
> the past. Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue.
> No success. The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is
> still oily so I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially
> since I have been able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to
> use any gorilla glue or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>
> I am looking for ideas folks!
How loose are they? What kind of joints? Any mechanical fasteners?
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> > How loose are they? What kind of joints? Any mechanical fasteners?
>
> Pretty loose. I have glued them before with yellow glue thinned with a
> little warm water but it isn't working this time. No mechanical fasteners.
> Just mortise and tenon.
Is it possible to disassemble them?
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Is it possible to cut a fine "saw kerf" and install wedges?
Like a Fein Tool kerf?
I know, you want to be cosmetic.
I have old chairs (1906), and the joints wore out.
They are difficult to repair.
Nice oak.....too.
I like the idea of steel pins.....
lots of ideas....
john
"Dick Snyder" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At first
I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it would
drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in the past.
Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No success.
The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is still oily so
I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially since I have been
able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to use any gorilla glue
or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
I am looking for ideas folks!
TIA.
Dick Snyder
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I recently made a teak entertainment center for a vacation
> house but that teak looks very different than our furniture which has a
> very blonde look.
Teak lightens considerably as it ages due to light exposure. Type of finish
makes a difference too.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> See if this works for you any better Lew
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001?authkey=CLPUsZSRlqyGjQE
I'm not Lew but yes; however, the photo doesn't really help.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote
> Caillouet@ (the obvious)
> Previous attempts until now have worked but not any more. I could peg the
> tenons but then this chair would look different than it's 5 other brothers
> and sisters. I may not have any choice but I am hoping to keep it looking
> the same.
Go back and peg them all and prevent future problems with them all.
--
Jim in NC
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
"Dick Snyder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I *hope* you can see a picture here
> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
Not without a password.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 5/29/2014 8:49 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
...
> See if this works for you any better Lew
...
Which are we looking at????
You say it's loose; can you go ahead and disassemble the chair and thus
have access rework the joinery? If it's loose and has been for a while,
likely it started with the tenon shrinking slightly, then the glue
failure followed by subsequent mechanical compression as the loading
shifts now that it is and has been loose.
Not likely anything will serve long term without some help of refitting
the joint. Even the dowel will, I expect, compress it and elongate the
holes with time under loading if it is left as a loose joint and that's
the only repair.
Don't show the underside; is it such it would be feasible to add the
internal to the seat rail corner blocks?
But, were they mine and I was serious about long-term retention, I'd be
investigating the disassembly route.
--
>>>GACK! Epoxy has NO tolerance for future disassembly!
> ----------------------------------------------------
> I would certainly hope not.
>
> Properly done, the epoxy repaired joint will out last the wood.
>
> Lew
+1
That's what I was thinkin. Done right, it should not have needed repair
now. Do it right and it will never need repair again.
--
Jim in NC
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/29/2014 8:48 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>
>> I have tried to share the picture of my chair but google+ keeps sticking
>> it
>> to me. If you have not been able to view the picture without being forced
>> to
>> log in, try this link:
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001?authkey=CLPUsZSRlqyGjQE
>
> This photo is still not sufficient for definitive advice on a lasting
> repair. Need to see the inside joinery, with the seat removed, and a photo
> of the seat attached from underneath.
>
> Short of that:
>
> Are there any "corner block" braces to support the leg/seat frame joint?
> Like this:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#6020016012120547410
>
> If not, and depending upon how the seat is attached to the seat frame, and
> if there is sufficient room, you might want to consider adding a corner
> block, or a variation thereof, as additional structural support _in
> conjunction with_ any primary leg/seat frame joint fix you do.
>
> I just fixed a factory made chair broken by a tenant that used a corner
> block, as pictured above, along with a bolt through the corner block that
> screwed into a threaded insert embedded in the leg sorta like this:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#6020016012799255410
>
> These type of mechanical reinforced joints are common in factory made
> chairs these days and are actually much stronger than they appear as long
> as the screws are routinely tightened.
>
> If there is room to add something of this nature to the seat frame/leg
> area, that, along with even a mediocre joint repair, may give your chair a
> new lease on life.
>
> Without a closer examination, that's about the best I can.
>
>
> --
> eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
> Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
> https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
> https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
> http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
> KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
There are no corner blocks. That looks like a possible thing I can do once
I have rebuilt the joint with dowels and epoxy. Thanks.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dick Snyder" wrote:
>
>> I think I will have to do that. Here is a picture of a healthy chair to
>> give you and idea of what I am talking about
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001
> ----------------------------------------------
> Google wants me to sign in.
>
> SCREW THAT NOISE.
>
> Lew
>
>
I can't tell you how much I hate google+. I use Picasa to edit my photos. A
year ago the big brothers at google decided that my photos needed to be
shared with their very lame competitor to Facebook (which I don't use but my
daughter tells me that Facebook is 1000% better than Google+). Supposedly I
could share the photos so anyone could look at them but apparently I failed.
I will try again.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/28/2014 6:07 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
>> I have loose joints in my teak chair where the seat joins the back. At
>> first
>> I tried taking some yellow glue that I watered down a little so it would
>> drip into the joint. No success. This method has always worked in the
>> past.
>> Next I tried a product from Veritas called Chair Doctor glue. No success.
>> The chair is at least 30 years old. I don't think the teak is still oily
>> so
>> I have resisted taking oil off with acetone, especially since I have been
>> able to make other repairs in the past. I don't want to use any gorilla
>> glue
>> or polyurethane glue due to the squeeze out mess.
>>
>> I am looking for ideas folks!
>
> Need more information, without which any advice is assumption based:
>
> What kind of joint?
>
> Pictures?
>
> --
> eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
> Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
> https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
> https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
> http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
> KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
There are two tenons coming from the chair frame to the leg
On 5/29/2014 8:48 PM, Dick Snyder wrote:
> I have tried to share the picture of my chair but google+ keeps sticking it
> to me. If you have not been able to view the picture without being forced to
> log in, try this link:
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/107427402428916576238/albums/6019005578555392001?authkey=CLPUsZSRlqyGjQE
This photo is still not sufficient for definitive advice on a lasting
repair. Need to see the inside joinery, with the seat removed, and a
photo of the seat attached from underneath.
Short of that:
Are there any "corner block" braces to support the leg/seat frame joint?
Like this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#6020016012120547410
If not, and depending upon how the seat is attached to the seat frame,
and if there is sufficient room, you might want to consider adding a
corner block, or a variation thereof, as additional structural support
_in conjunction with_ any primary leg/seat frame joint fix you do.
I just fixed a factory made chair broken by a tenant that used a corner
block, as pictured above, along with a bolt through the corner block
that screwed into a threaded insert embedded in the leg sorta like this:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJigsFixturesMethods?noredirect=1#6020016012799255410
These type of mechanical reinforced joints are common in factory made
chairs these days and are actually much stronger than they appear as
long as the screws are routinely tightened.
If there is room to add something of this nature to the seat frame/leg
area, that, along with even a mediocre joint repair, may give your chair
a new lease on life.
Without a closer examination, that's about the best I can.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)