shed design

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Upscale, you meant for the inside of the shed... I gothcha. Ignore my
> previous post.

No problem. The planner also has a misc. category tool which you can size to
any dimension you want. You can use that to substitute for any planned shed
furniture like a potting bench or something similar.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 09:22:34 -0500, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 2/23/2011 2:12 AM, Morgans wrote:
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> Really? So the guys who engineered and spec'd out those switches were all
>>> idiots? I suppose there are thousands of houses burning down every year
>>> and the government's hiding it all because of the powerful Leviton lobby.
>>
>> I realize they are not burning down houses, but I don't usually use them
>> on my own work. I have had to troubleshoot non working circuits, and
>> traced the problem to a stab connector not making reliable contact. Both
>> times, the failure happened at around 7 years, in an outlet that had not
>> been disturbed.
>
>I think if you look at your circuit breaker you will see a stab type
>connector.

I've never even -seen- a circuit breaker without screw terminals.

--
"Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty.
There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and
indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration
of virtue. These amiable passions, are the latent spark. If
the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling
the differences between true and false, right and wrong,
virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of
mankind apply than to the sense of this difference?"
--John Adams

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
>>> tools.
>
>>> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
>>> to the house.
>
> My first shed was 8x12 and it was close to useless. Filled that sucker up
> in the blink of an eye, and it was a bitch to get stuff out because it was
> packed to the gills. My 90 year old neighbor yelled at me when I built
> it, saying a shed can't be too big. I told him because of property lines,
> that was as big as I could go. He said put some of it on his property, he
> didn't care. I said what about when your not here... He said "where am I
> going?" He was 92 and still worked 7 days a week, 12 hours a day...
>
> My next shed was 14' long by 16' wide with a second floor. I designed it
> 25 years ago with Design Cad and it took me 40 hours or more to figure out
> how to use design cad. I could have done it on paper in an hour.
> Sketchup would be the way to go today, but that too has a nice learning
> curve, but well worth it.
>
> I made it so the first floor was 6'2" so I wouldn't have to duck. The
> roof I made to fit full sheets of plywood. The shed at the peak is 15'
> because the building guy said if it was over 15' it would be taxed and
> subject to all the building nonsense governments impose upon. The second
> floor is GREAT because you can store so much more, and it doesn't cost
> much more to build.
>
> I tucked mine into some trees in the back of my property. Here's a
> picture I took last year. Still in perfect shape after 25 years and
> numerous snows up to 3'. This shed is just right for me, not too big, not
> too small. I have to say it was one of the most satisfying things I've
> designed and built. Oh, I remember cruising a local shed dealer for
> design ideas, some of which I incorporated into mine.
>
> http://jbstein.com/Flick/Shed1030100.jpg
Like your 14' long by 16' wide.
How much snow can the roof take?
Denis M

> My suggestion is to build it big as you can afford. 2 acres is enough
> land to accumulate lots of lawn and garden stuff. Before you start
> designing, go to a place that sells sheds and look them over, see what you
> like.
>
>>> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
>>> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
>>> I want
>>> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
>>> look for another spot?
>
> If you use sketchup, you can get a really good idea of what it will look
> like. If you build an eyesore, which many sheds are, hide it. If you
> make it aesthetically pleasing, you can put it in the open. I would think
> 2 acres is plenty of room for a rather large shed or small barn.
>
> --
> Jack
> You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
> http://jbstein.com

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/20/2011 11:44 AM, Denis M wrote:
>> "Jack Stein" wrote in message:
>
>>> I tucked mine into some trees in the back of my property. Here's a
>>> picture I took last year. Still in perfect shape after 25 years and
>>> numerous snows up to 3'. This shed is just right for me, not too big,
>>> not
>>> too small. I have to say it was one of the most satisfying things I've
>>> designed and built. Oh, I remember cruising a local shed dealer for
>>> design ideas, some of which I incorporated into mine.
>
>>> http://jbstein.com/Flick/Shed1030100.jpg
>
>> Like your 14' long by 16' wide.
>
> Yes, it turned out nice. I saw a 16 long by 14' wide commercial jobs, but
> none that were wider than deep. It looked good on paper, and it looks
> even better live.
>
>> How much snow can the roof take?
>> Denis M
>
> Up to 3' so far, and it's built of 2x4's on 24" center's. I made the
> trusses myself, but used those metal truss plates to connect them. They
> were flimsy as all get out until I got some structure on them.
>
> I'm not a builder but knew these are commonly used in houses, but I am a
> woodworker and after I built the shed, and even though the trusses seemed
> strong as hell, the next year I made wooden plates out of scrap plywood,
> cut them on the band saw and glued and nailed them to every joint, right
> over top of the metal plates. I figured the only thing that could go
> wrong is the joints spread as the roof transfers all the weight onto the
> side walls. I imagine it could take quite a bit of snow.
>
> The biggest snow we've had in the past 25 years was supposedly 3' about 10
> years ago. I measured it because no where did I see 3', and the media
> always lies through their teeth, and best I got was 2 feet, so they were
> off by about 33%, about right for the lame ass media.
>
> Last year we got 2 feet, which I measured to about 19 inches. The shed is
> nestled in trees, and gets less snow than out in the open.
>
> --
> Jack
> You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
> http://jbstein.com



Thanks for the information. This year in New Brunswick a few commercial
roofs did collapsed under the weight of snow and ice. I like to idea of
re-enforcing the trusses with wooden plates. While driving to the ski hills
I noticed that the Gambrel roof (like your) does not accumulate snow and ice
as much as the traditional roof design. That will the design that I will be
using for my shed.

Denis M.

"Jack Stein" wrote:

>> I think if you look at your circuit breaker you will see a stab
>> type connector.
-----------------------------------
"Morgans" wrote:

> In the US? Nope I have only used screw down terminal breakers. I
> have never seen a stab type.
-------------------------------
It depends.

In the US, "plug-in" c'bkrs are used in residential load center panels
while "bolt-on" c'bkrs are used in industrial panel boards.

As far as the c'bkr it self is concerned, both c'bkrs have the same
operating innards.

Lew

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> My favorite is the Cooper style - screw down clamp. No need to
> curl around the screw - just stick the wire in and screw down the
> clamp. Good solid mechanical connection, much faster and easier to
> install, and much easier to replace.
----------------------------------
There are many so-called "Spec Grade" wiring devices.

The "strip and stuff it" residential device is just that.

Strip off the insulation from the solid wire and stuff it in the back
of the receptacle.

It's the bottom of the performance ladder.

Then there is a light commercial grade which is both back and side
wired.

Typically they were identified as 5200 series devices.

Next is the standard industrial devices identified as 5300 series
devices.

They are both which is both back and side wired and were a major part
oh the Hubbell product line.

Finally there is the "hospital grade", series 8300 devices.

They also are both which is both back and side wired

Very easy to identify since they have a green dot in the face.

Been away from the business to long to know who are the players these
days, but the product lines are very mature.

Just for reference, there is at least a 20:1 price spread between a
'resi" and a "hospital" grade device, or at least there was.

Enjoy.

Lew

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
> tools.
>
> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
> to the house.
>
> I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans,
> and
> designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
> site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
> by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
> about snow, just rain.
>
> Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
> I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.
>
> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
> roof
> look odd on a 8x10 shed?
>
> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
> I want
> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
> look for another spot?
>
> MJ

My biggest concern after building just what you suggest was that I found out
that I lost a lot of overhead storage room, and a small shed fills up fast
enough to make it hard to get much in or out. I had a 10 x 14. I could
live with the greater pitch, or even have the two pitches like a barn to get
the extra overhead.

Steve

>
> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
> roof
> look odd on a 8x10 shed?

That is like all the tin sheds. Also, I have a slighly bigger shed in
mybackyard with a very low pitch like that. The roofing on my shed is
some sort of corrugated stuff but much heavier than the typical galv
or poly type. It is like 4' x 6' sheets, the corrugation is maybe 3"
wide each and he stuff is about 1/4" thick. Kind of structural and
enclosure all in one. It might be fiberglass or cementious or
something. They have it at home depot.

Thanks all who responded.

I have a 3 car garage that I'd like to organize and if
I can get the wood and garden tools out, that
would help a lot. One of the stalls in the garage
is my workshop - so I'm not using the shed as
a workshop.

After I started this thread, the architect who
designed our house came by on a unannounced
visit. He suggested that I build a small retaining
wall (the property is slopped) of about 30 inches,
slab it with concrete and then build a 10x12. Of
course he would design it for me for $1200 or so.
That was funny, I thought!

I'm going to hold back a bit and take look
around as to where I could stick this shed
and not have it be so obtrusive to the property. The
property is narrow, long and slopped, which
forces the siting of the shed to specific areas.

Thanks again!

MJ

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:58:19 -0500, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 2/20/2011 11:44 AM, Denis M wrote:

<snip>

>> How much snow can the roof take?
>> Denis M
>
>Up to 3' so far, and it's built of 2x4's on 24" center's. I made the
>trusses myself, but used those metal truss plates to connect them. They
>were flimsy as all get out until I got some structure on them.
>

Where did you get the truss plates? I couldn't buy them as I'm not
certified to design wooded trusses. From the Simpson Strong-Tie web
site:

"Can I use your mending plates for truss fabrication?

The mending plates shown in the Simpson Strong-Tie catalog are not
intended for structural use. They have not been tested for structural
applications and are not load rated. Metal Plate Connected Wood
Trusses require specific design criteria as outlined by the Truss
Plate Institute and in the current ANSI/TPI documents. Software
specific to truss design is available through a number of truss plate
suppliers. For more information regarding truss plate suppliers,
contact the Truss Plate Institute at (608) 833-5900. "

http://www.strongtie.com/productuse/faq-general.html
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Jack Stein wrote:
> On 2/23/2011 2:12 AM, Morgans wrote:
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> Really? So the guys who engineered and spec'd out those switches
>>> were all idiots? I suppose there are thousands of houses burning
>>> down every year and the government's hiding it all because of the
>>> powerful Leviton lobby.
>>
>> I realize they are not burning down houses, but I don't usually use
>> them on my own work. I have had to troubleshoot non working
>> circuits, and traced the problem to a stab connector not making
>> reliable contact. Both times, the failure happened at around 7
>> years, in an outlet that had not been disturbed.
>
> I think if you look at your circuit breaker you will see a stab type
> connector.

Yeahbut a vastly difference mechanical connection. On your breaker, it's a
stout connection. On your basic Leviton duplex, it's a bent piece of copper
or tin that doesn't hold up well at all. My favorite is the Cooper style -
screw down clamp. No need to curl around the screw - just stick the wire in
and screw down the clamp. Good solid mechanical connection, much faster and
easier to install, and much easier to replace.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
>> roof
>> look odd on a 8x10 shed?
>
> That is like all the tin sheds. Also, I have a slighly bigger shed
> in
> mybackyard with a very low pitch like that. The roofing on my shed
> is
> some sort of corrugated stuff but much heavier than the typical galv
> or poly type. It is like 4' x 6' sheets, the corrugation is maybe 3"
> wide each and he stuff is about 1/4" thick. Kind of structural and
> enclosure all in one. It might be fiberglass or cementious or
> something. They have it at home depot.
>

There are some heavier, anodized metal sheets out there in a choice of
gauges and colors and profiles.They are much pricier than the regular
wavy corrugated fiberglass along with being more durable and handsome.

Aside from rain as an expressed design consideration, if other factors
allow, the OP might consider a translucent or transparent plastic
material
on one or both sides of the apex of his roof to allow permanent
skylighting.
A T-bar ridge of plastic "wood" would protect the joint there as would
some of the aluminum ridge material available across a range of
greenhouse
suppliers.

For plastic panels, Glassteel with a Tedlar coating has an exceptional
lifetime. It is available in at least two profiles, the shiplap
variety being
much more forgiving when it comes to rafter allignment.

Regards,

Edward Hennessey

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
> tools.
>
> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
> to the house.
>
> I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans,
> and
> designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
> site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
> by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
> about snow, just rain.
>
> Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
> I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.
>
> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
> roof
> look odd on a 8x10 shed?
>
> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
> I want
> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
> look for another spot?
>
> MJ

I think you could easily draw that on paper and get a good idea of what it
would look like.

On another note, for a few dollars more per sheet you can get radiant
barrier decking over standard decking and that will keep you shed
considerably cooler in the summer months. Cheap and no more work.

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Really? So the guys who engineered and spec'd out those switches were all
> idiots? I suppose there are thousands of houses burning down every year
> and the government's hiding it all because of the powerful Leviton lobby.

I realize they are not burning down houses, but I don't usually use them on
my own work. I have had to troubleshoot non working circuits, and traced
the problem to a stab connector not making reliable contact. Both times,
the failure happened at around 7 years, in an outlet that had not been
disturbed.
--
Jim in NC

"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Sounds like a good excuse to use the SketchUp (free 3-D Modeling program).
> You could model all of the important features of your yard and move
> various incarnations of your shed around.

If it's for a workshop, he could use Grizzly's workshop planner. Can't get
much easier.
http://grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden tools.
>
>While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
>to the house.
>
>I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans, and
>designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
>site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
>by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
>about snow, just rain.
>
>Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.

That seems really steep, unless you're in heavy snow country.

>I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.

Shingles are fairly 'iffy' at _that_ low a slope. You're probably
looking at rolled roofing, with a need to seal seams -- or maybe metallic
(or Fiberglas) sheeting.

At, say, a 5x12 pitch shingles are "no problem".

>My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
>roof look odd on a 8x10 shed?

Authoritative answer: "It depends". <grin>

Considered in isolation, that pitch is -not- unreasonable for either a
"saltbox", or true "shed" style roof. For conventional gable or hip
roof designs (and cousins thereof), it _will_ look tend to look 'squished'
or 'stepped on', if it's mimicking a conventional structure.

"Geography" also enters into the situation. What "looks normal" in one
territory (because it's what 'everybody' does _there_) will look terribly
out of place in a different locale. Snow vs. rain is a _big_ consideration,
also the degree of variability in storm (and storm winds) directions. So,
'look around' the territory and see what 'other folks' do. :)

A bigger question is what else will be in the field of view -- where
will people see it from, and what else will the see with/around it.

If it's going to be 'commonly seen' in the same view as the house, you
will likely want to mimic the house architecture.

>I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
>are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
>I want something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
>look for another spot?

I (almost) hate to say it, in _this_ group, but you may well want to
consider a metal storage shed. That'll get the low roof profile you are
looking for (which will help greatly with the 'more discrete' aspect,
and much lower maintenance. Incidentally, the fact that it's "pre-
finished" makes an amazing difference in the amount of time/effort to
project completion. :)

Aside: I was googling a few things related to writing this reply, and
came across "www.shedkitstore.com" The site is painfully slow to load,
and I know -nothing- about them; they have a substantial collection
of various kinds of shed kits, wood, vinyl and metal. In their
'best barn' line (wood) is an 'Elm' model, with about a 4:12 pitch.
In the 'arrow' models (metal), they've got some that do not look bad,
and that have an about 1:12 pitch.

[email protected] wrote:
> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
> tools.
>
> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
> to the house.
>
> I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans,
> and
> designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
> site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
> by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
> about snow, just rain.
>
> Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
> I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.
>
> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
> roof
> look odd on a 8x10 shed?
>
> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
> I want
> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
> look for another spot?
>
> MJ


Three things ...

<1>
I would avoid a metal shed. Rust and the inability to purchase oil based
paint in economical gallons makes it a bad idea in many areas of the USA
at least. I live in Pennsylvania and the state government in its
infinite wisdom has banned oil based paint sold by the gallon. Best
check that out before hand. Oil based spray cans or epoxy are still
legal but not very economical/practical.

<2>
8 x 10 is really small. Mine is 10 x 12 and with just a 42" lawn
tractor, 21" mower, trimmer, edger, and an assortment of garden tools
(including two wheel barrows) its stuffed to the gills. The pull behind
cart doesn't fit at all and sits outside at the mercy of the weather.

<3>
Gather up everything that will go in the shed and arrange it in the
yard. Allow a path to get yourself in to get at whatever is in the back
of the shed and then measure the needed floor space. You will be amazed
at how much room you really need.

John

"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I've had similar situations where I found something not working and
> swore off using it ever again, but one guy finding two bad outlets isn't
> exactly overwhelming evidence.

True. and if I wired for a living, I would probably use the stabs to be
profitable. For myself, I will take the time to screw down the wires and
eliminate on possible source of a problem.

--
Jim in NC

> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
> tools.

Building codes in most areas allow you to build a shed up to 100 square
feet without a building permit (check with your local building department).

It's easy to build a shed with 2x4 studs and plywood siding. Since plywood
sheets are usually 4' wide, this normally means a shed that is 8x12 (96
sq/ft), with 8' high walls. Note that the actual inside ceiling height is
typically a little lower as the plywood siding laps over the floor framing
or concrete slab to keep out wind, rain, and bugs.

> Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
> I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.

I built mine with a 6/12 pitch. Lower pitches look kind of odd on a tall
shed, and you start having to worry about leaks below 4/12 or so. Anything
steeper than 6/12 is hard to walk on safely, making construction and
maintenance more difficult.

> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks
> huge. I want something more discrete and not so noticable.

My shed is 8x12, with the 6/12 pitch, making it approximately 10' high at
the peak. If it was standing alone out in the open somewhere it may look
odd, but situated near our house and trees it looks fine. The eaves of our
house are higher than 10' and the ridges are upwards of 18', so the shed
size fits nicely.

Anthony

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:17:48 -0800, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
>> tools.
>>
>> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
>> to the house.
>>
>> I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans,
>> and
>> designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
>> site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
>> by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
>> about snow, just rain.
>>
>> Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
>> I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.
>>
>> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
>> roof
>> look odd on a 8x10 shed?
>>
>> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
>> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
>> I want
>> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
>> look for another spot?
>>
>> MJ
>
>Close to the house I would want the shed to resemble the house with similiar
>siding, trim and roof. 3x12 is a little flat for 3-tab.
>
3.12 "shed" roof (no gable, sloped only one way) not in snow country
works fine with standard shingles if the prevailing winds are not "up
the roof" and if you increase your overlap about 25%. DO NOT forget
the roofing felt under the shingles, and the drip edges. BluSeal self
stick membrane or ice sheild over the whole roof is never a bad idea
either.

As far as code goes, in most places as long as there is no foundation
(ot is a "temporary" or "portable" building and under 100 sq feet no
code applies and no permit is required. Just make sure it is tied down
well enough to withstand the highest foreseeable wind gusts!!!

Nothing like watching your shed roll down the block in a wind storm!

On Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:02:55 -0500, Jack Stein <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 2/21/2011 11:33 AM, Nova wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:58:19 -0500, Jack Stein wrote:
>
>>>> How much snow can the roof take?
>>>> Denis M

>> "Can I use your mending plates for truss fabrication?
>
>A quick search shows
>
>http://www.trusspe.com/index.php?page=connector-plates
>
>sells them, and they look the same as I used. Looked like anyone could
>buy them but I didn't look into it.

I hold that kind of thing in the same contempt I hold stick-in
connectors on light switches and wall outlets:
They're fatal errors just waiting to happen.

--
The more passions and desires one has,
the more ways one has of being happy.
-- Charlotte-Catherine

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 21:16:56 -0500, "Morgans" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Yeah, my shed cost exactly $1200 when I built it, 25 years ago. I knew
>> the local lumber yards put sheds, and everything needed to build them on
>> sale every spring, so I drew everything up in the winter, and bought all
>> the material when it went on sale. Saved a ton of money.
>>
>> I built both my sheds on 6x6 Wolmanized posts. My first shed was not on
>> level ground, so the front posts were short, the back posts were longer:-)
>
>Interesting. Around here, if you build it stationary, as is on posts, they
>add it to your property tax values and it has to have a building permit. If
>it is on skids, it is not subject to inspections or taxes. Mine is on 4 x 6
>skids, then with a couple trailer tie down straps. I use truss to wall
>connector clips to make sure the skids do not pull loose from the floor when
>it is moved by dragging it with a chain.

That's not unique, but I'm sure not universal, either. Some time back a
neighbor built a pole barn in his yard. He set it on 6" of gravel and used PT
two-bys, raised off the ground, for flooring. As long as it was sitting on
the ground, no inspections and no taxes.

On Feb 15, 7:38=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
> tools.
>
I built one this fall that is slightly larger - 10 x 14. I had some
of the same concerns, especially since a smaller shed can end up
looking like a church if you use standard studs and such. I wanted it
to blend with the house as well as possible and here are a few things
I did:

- Used the shorter 86" studs instead of full length. This brought
the ridge line down about 6"

- Used the same roof slop as the house - 7:12 in our case. This
provided a lot of room for overhead lofts in each end and storage
(made shingling fun).

- The house has 2' overhang all around and I used 1' overhang.

- The lower eves of the house have box trim and I copied it.

- Paint scheme is the same.

Even with an 8" door header the shorter studs provide plenty of head
clearance for my 5'-11" height. Our 6'-4" son in law will have to
duck. Even with the shorter wall heights, the shed looks plenty tall
but it is attractive.

RonB

In article <[email protected]>,
Steve B <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> I (almost) hate to say it, in _this_ group, but you may well want to
>> consider a metal storage shed. That'll get the low roof profile you are
>> looking for (which will help greatly with the 'more discrete' aspect,
>> and much lower maintenance. Incidentally, the fact that it's "pre-
>> finished" makes an amazing difference in the amount of time/effort to
>> project completion. :)
>
>They only work if you are under 5' tall. I had one, and poured a slab and
>put a 2' pony wall to mount the shed on top of.

Depends on the structure. _long_ ago, had one from Sears, no less, that had
close to 7' internal clearance on the high wall -- just under 6' at the back
wall. Door opening was only about 5'9", did have to duck stepping in.

Here's one that is minimum 6' at the walls, and is over 7-1/2' at the ridge-
pole. <http://shedkitstore.com/document_product_info.html?products_id=231>

[email protected] wrote:
> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
> tools.
>
> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
> to the house.
>
> I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans,
> and
> designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
> site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
> by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
> about snow, just rain.
>
> Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
> I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.
>
> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
> roof
> look odd on a 8x10 shed?
>
> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
> I want
> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
> look for another spot?
>
> MJ

Sounds like a good excuse to use the SketchUp (free 3-D Modeling
program). You could model all of the important features of your yard
and move various incarnations of your shed around. You could start with
a photo of your yard taken from Google Earth and get everything to
scale. This can be done alot faster than you may think. After doing
that, there will be few surprises for you. I find it mildly amusing
that you can do all of this without even going outside. I can verify my
lot size to the inch (maybe a foot, I forget) with Google Earth.

Bill

Upscale wrote:
> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Sounds like a good excuse to use the SketchUp (free 3-D Modeling program).
>> You could model all of the important features of your yard and move
>> various incarnations of your shed around.
>
> If it's for a workshop, he could use Grizzly's workshop planner. Can't get
> much easier.
> http://grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx
>
>

But it's for a backyard and a shed. Once you learn how to use the
software, it's PDQ. And the model created will serve as a good starting
point on the next project that comes around.

Bill

Upscale wrote:
> "Bill"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Sounds like a good excuse to use the SketchUp (free 3-D Modeling program).
>> You could model all of the important features of your yard and move
>> various incarnations of your shed around.
>
> If it's for a workshop, he could use Grizzly's workshop planner. Can't get
> much easier.
> http://grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx
>
>

Upscale, you meant for the inside of the shed... I gothcha. Ignore my
previous post.

Bill

> [email protected] wrote:
>> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
>> tools.

>> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
>> to the house.

My first shed was 8x12 and it was close to useless. Filled that sucker
up in the blink of an eye, and it was a bitch to get stuff out because
it was packed to the gills. My 90 year old neighbor yelled at me when I
built it, saying a shed can't be too big. I told him because of
property lines, that was as big as I could go. He said put some of it
on his property, he didn't care. I said what about when your not
here... He said "where am I going?" He was 92 and still worked 7 days
a week, 12 hours a day...

My next shed was 14' long by 16' wide with a second floor. I designed
it 25 years ago with Design Cad and it took me 40 hours or more to
figure out how to use design cad. I could have done it on paper in an
hour. Sketchup would be the way to go today, but that too has a nice
learning curve, but well worth it.

I made it so the first floor was 6'2" so I wouldn't have to duck. The
roof I made to fit full sheets of plywood. The shed at the peak is 15'
because the building guy said if it was over 15' it would be taxed and
subject to all the building nonsense governments impose upon. The
second floor is GREAT because you can store so much more, and it doesn't
cost much more to build.

I tucked mine into some trees in the back of my property. Here's a
picture I took last year. Still in perfect shape after 25 years and
numerous snows up to 3'. This shed is just right for me, not too big,
not too small. I have to say it was one of the most satisfying things
I've designed and built. Oh, I remember cruising a local shed dealer
for design ideas, some of which I incorporated into mine.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/Shed1030100.jpg

My suggestion is to build it big as you can afford. 2 acres is enough
land to accumulate lots of lawn and garden stuff. Before you start
designing, go to a place that sells sheds and look them over, see what
you like.

>> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
>> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
>> I want
>> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
>> look for another spot?

If you use sketchup, you can get a really good idea of what it will look
like. If you build an eyesore, which many sheds are, hide it. If you
make it aesthetically pleasing, you can put it in the open. I would
think 2 acres is plenty of room for a rather large shed or small barn.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 2/20/2011 11:44 AM, Denis M wrote:
> "Jack Stein" wrote in message:

>> I tucked mine into some trees in the back of my property. Here's a
>> picture I took last year. Still in perfect shape after 25 years and
>> numerous snows up to 3'. This shed is just right for me, not too big, not
>> too small. I have to say it was one of the most satisfying things I've
>> designed and built. Oh, I remember cruising a local shed dealer for
>> design ideas, some of which I incorporated into mine.

>> http://jbstein.com/Flick/Shed1030100.jpg

> Like your 14' long by 16' wide.

Yes, it turned out nice. I saw a 16 long by 14' wide commercial jobs,
but none that were wider than deep. It looked good on paper, and it
looks even better live.

> How much snow can the roof take?
> Denis M

Up to 3' so far, and it's built of 2x4's on 24" center's. I made the
trusses myself, but used those metal truss plates to connect them. They
were flimsy as all get out until I got some structure on them.

I'm not a builder but knew these are commonly used in houses, but I am a
woodworker and after I built the shed, and even though the trusses
seemed strong as hell, the next year I made wooden plates out of scrap
plywood, cut them on the band saw and glued and nailed them to every
joint, right over top of the metal plates. I figured the only thing
that could go wrong is the joints spread as the roof transfers all the
weight onto the side walls. I imagine it could take quite a bit of snow.

The biggest snow we've had in the past 25 years was supposedly 3' about
10 years ago. I measured it because no where did I see 3', and the
media always lies through their teeth, and best I got was 2 feet, so
they were off by about 33%, about right for the lame ass media.

Last year we got 2 feet, which I measured to about 19 inches. The shed
is nestled in trees, and gets less snow than out in the open.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 2/20/2011 2:28 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Thanks all who responded.
>
> I have a 3 car garage that I'd like to organize and if
> I can get the wood and garden tools out, that
> would help a lot. One of the stalls in the garage
> is my workshop - so I'm not using the shed as
> a workshop.

Thats good, build the shed and you have two stalls for the workshop.
Park the car outside, and you have an ideal size workshop:-)

> After I started this thread, the architect who
> designed our house came by on a unannounced
> visit. He suggested that I build a small retaining
> wall (the property is slopped) of about 30 inches,
> slab it with concrete and then build a 10x12. Of
> course he would design it for me for $1200 or so.
> That was funny, I thought!

Yeah, my shed cost exactly $1200 when I built it, 25 years ago. I knew
the local lumber yards put sheds, and everything needed to build them on
sale every spring, so I drew everything up in the winter, and bought all
the material when it went on sale. Saved a ton of money.

I built both my sheds on 6x6 Wolmanized posts. My first shed was not on
level ground, so the front posts were short, the back posts were longer:-)

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 2/21/2011 11:33 AM, Nova wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:58:19 -0500, Jack Stein wrote:

>>> How much snow can the roof take?
>>> Denis M
>>
>> Up to 3' so far, and it's built of 2x4's on 24" center's. I made the
>> trusses myself, but used those metal truss plates to connect them. They
>> were flimsy as all get out until I got some structure on them.
>>
>
> Where did you get the truss plates? I couldn't buy them as I'm not
> certified to design wooded trusses. From the Simpson Strong-Tie web
> site:

Probably at 84 lumber. This was around 25 years ago, and I can see
absolutely no reason anyone couldn't use them. Are you still allowed to
use nails w/o certification?

> "Can I use your mending plates for truss fabrication?

A quick search shows

http://www.trusspe.com/index.php?page=connector-plates

sells them, and they look the same as I used. Looked like anyone could
buy them but I didn't look into it.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 2/21/2011 11:57 AM, Denis M wrote:
> "Jack Stein"<[email protected]> wrote in message

> Thanks for the information. This year in New Brunswick a few commercial
> roofs did collapsed under the weight of snow and ice. I like to idea of
> re-enforcing the trusses with wooden plates. While driving to the ski hills
> I noticed that the Gambrel roof (like your) does not accumulate snow and ice
> as much as the traditional roof design. That will the design that I will be
> using for my shed.

Yes, that is a nice design, uses little material and it is easy to
build, particularly with the truss plates. I said they were "flimsy"
but they are very strong and will not spread vertically. They bend
easily horizontally but their is no pressure on them to bend once the
roof is on. I put the wooden plates on because mentally I couldn't
handle thinking about those little hunks of tin holding up my roof. I
doubt the wood did any more than give me piece of mind:-).

I gotta tell you again though, you really want bigger than 8x10 and you
might as well put on a second floor. The second floor is the only thing
that keeps the first floor semi-uncluttered. There is not much extra
cost, and it does not have to be built like a house, it's just for
storing junk, not car engines or pianos. More like deck chairs, a lawn
seeder you use once every 20 years, kids toys that you know will be
worth a fortune 25 years from now, tents you will never use again, that
kind of stuff. You will thank yourself for the rest of time.

--
Jack
I wondered why the baseball was getting bigger. Then it hit me.
http://jbstein.com

On 2/21/2011 9:16 PM, Morgans wrote:
>
> "Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> Yeah, my shed cost exactly $1200 when I built it, 25 years ago. I knew
>> the local lumber yards put sheds, and everything needed to build them
>> on sale every spring, so I drew everything up in the winter, and
>> bought all the material when it went on sale. Saved a ton of money.
>>
>> I built both my sheds on 6x6 Wolmanized posts. My first shed was not
>> on level ground, so the front posts were short, the back posts were
>> longer:-)
>
> Interesting. Around here, if you build it stationary, as is on posts,
> they add it to your property tax values and it has to have a building
> permit. If it is on skids, it is not subject to inspections or taxes.
> Mine is on 4 x 6 skids, then with a couple trailer tie down straps. I
> use truss to wall connector clips to make sure the skids do not pull
> loose from the floor when it is moved by dragging it with a chain.

Building codes vary from community to community. I can't see me wanting
to move my shed anytime, ever, but if I really had to, I could unbolt it
from the posts, jack it up, put it on dollies and roll it anywhere. We
did that once with a cottage on an island that was a lot bigger than my
shed.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 2/22/11 1:20 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> I hold that kind of thing in the same contempt I hold stick-in
> connectors on light switches and wall outlets:
> They're fatal errors just waiting to happen.
>

Really? So the guys who engineered and spec'd out those switches were all
idiots? I suppose there are thousands of houses burning down every year
and the government's hiding it all because of the powerful Leviton lobby.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/23/2011 2:12 AM, Morgans wrote:
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Really? So the guys who engineered and spec'd out those switches were all
>> idiots? I suppose there are thousands of houses burning down every year
>> and the government's hiding it all because of the powerful Leviton lobby.
>
> I realize they are not burning down houses, but I don't usually use them
> on my own work. I have had to troubleshoot non working circuits, and
> traced the problem to a stab connector not making reliable contact. Both
> times, the failure happened at around 7 years, in an outlet that had not
> been disturbed.

I think if you look at your circuit breaker you will see a stab type
connector.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 2/23/2011 9:22 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
> On 2/23/2011 2:12 AM, Morgans wrote:
>>
>> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>>
>>> Really? So the guys who engineered and spec'd out those switches were
>>> all
>>> idiots? I suppose there are thousands of houses burning down every year
>>> and the government's hiding it all because of the powerful Leviton
>>> lobby.
>>
>> I realize they are not burning down houses, but I don't usually use them
>> on my own work. I have had to troubleshoot non working circuits, and
>> traced the problem to a stab connector not making reliable contact. Both
>> times, the failure happened at around 7 years, in an outlet that had not
>> been disturbed.
>
> I think if you look at your circuit breaker you will see a stab type
> connector.
>
Oops, you were talking about the stab type without a screw. I was
thinking the stab type with a plate you screw down vs the wrap around
screw type. Sorry bout that...

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 2/23/11 1:12 AM, Morgans wrote:
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> Really? So the guys who engineered and spec'd out those switches were all
>> idiots? I suppose there are thousands of houses burning down every year
>> and the government's hiding it all because of the powerful Leviton lobby.
>
> I realize they are not burning down houses, but I don't usually use them
> on my own work. I have had to troubleshoot non working circuits, and
> traced the problem to a stab connector not making reliable contact. Both
> times, the failure happened at around 7 years, in an outlet that had not
> been disturbed.

I've had similar situations where I found something not working and
swore off using it ever again, but one guy finding two bad outlets isn't
exactly overwhelming evidence.

FWIW, I've gotten bad switches straight out of the box. I chalked it up
to a bad lot... I didn't swear off switches. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article <[email protected]>, "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>> I think if you look at your circuit breaker you will see a stab type
>> connector.
>
> In the US? Nope I have only used screw down terminal breakers. I have
>never seen a stab type.

Depends on which part of the breaker you're talking about. The terminal where
the branch circuit connects to the breaker is always a screw terminal, but the
connection of the breaker to the bus bar is definitely a stab connection.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 17:38:11 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
>tools.
>
>While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
>to the house.
>
>I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans,
>and
>designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
>site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
>by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
>about snow, just rain.
>
>Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
>I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.

Not a problem unless you're in heavy-snow-load country or local codes
prohibit it. I'd go with either composition roofing (glued down) or
metal roofing with sealed top flashing.


>My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
>roof
>look odd on a 8x10 shed?

I have a 3:12 pitch roof on the house and a 1:10 slope on the carport.
Works for me.


>I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
>are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.

Howzbout something like a shed roof style? <g>
http://www.just-sheds.com/1210-R11.gif




>I want
>something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
>look for another spot?

Perhaps.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from the
effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
--Herbert Spencer

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Looking to build a "small shed" (8x10) to store excess wood/garden
> tools.
>
> While I have close to 2 acres, the most likely spots are a bit close
> to the house.
>
> I have a spot in mind, but as I've gone through a variety of plans,
> and
> designs, I find that the overall roof height is a bit imposing for the
> site I've blocked off. I think I can modify one or more of the designs
> by reducing the wall height and the pitch. I don't have to worry
> about snow, just rain.
>
> Most of the 8x10 shed designs seem to have 8x12 or 9x12 pitch.
> I'm thinking of reducing that to 3x12.
>
> My question, from an aesthetics point of view would that low pitch
> roof
> look odd on a 8x10 shed?
>
> I have some boards I put up to give a sense of the heights that
> are in the plans I have and to be honest, the heights just looks huge.
> I want
> something more discrete and not so noticable. Perhaps I should
> look for another spot?
>
> MJ

Close to the house I would want the shed to resemble the house with similiar
siding, trim and roof. 3x12 is a little flat for 3-tab.

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote

> Yeah, my shed cost exactly $1200 when I built it, 25 years ago. I knew
> the local lumber yards put sheds, and everything needed to build them on
> sale every spring, so I drew everything up in the winter, and bought all
> the material when it went on sale. Saved a ton of money.
>
> I built both my sheds on 6x6 Wolmanized posts. My first shed was not on
> level ground, so the front posts were short, the back posts were longer:-)

Interesting. Around here, if you build it stationary, as is on posts, they
add it to your property tax values and it has to have a building permit. If
it is on skids, it is not subject to inspections or taxes. Mine is on 4 x 6
skids, then with a couple trailer tie down straps. I use truss to wall
connector clips to make sure the skids do not pull loose from the floor when
it is moved by dragging it with a chain.
--
Jim in NC

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote

> I think if you look at your circuit breaker you will see a stab type
> connector.

In the US? Nope I have only used screw down terminal breakers. I have
never seen a stab type.
--
Jim in NC

"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I (almost) hate to say it, in _this_ group, but you may well want to
> consider a metal storage shed. That'll get the low roof profile you are
> looking for (which will help greatly with the 'more discrete' aspect,
> and much lower maintenance. Incidentally, the fact that it's "pre-
> finished" makes an amazing difference in the amount of time/effort to
> project completion. :)

They only work if you are under 5' tall. I had one, and poured a slab and
put a 2' pony wall to mount the shed on top of.

Steve