Hello All:
I've been able to become proficient with all my powered woodworking tools.
Except the jointer, which I thought would be the easiest to use. Can't seem
to get an uniform cut across the length of the board, and there is a
noticeable taper from front (first end through) to back. I've paid close
attention to setting infeed and outfeed table heights, and a steel straight
edge across the length of both tables shows them to be flat. Still, when I
feed the stock through, I get machining at the start, lessening to about the
mid point, and then little to none until the last few inches. Multiple
passes result in a tapered board. The machine is the Jet 6" stationary long
bed.
Any and all tips appreciated.
vernal888 said:
>Hello All:
>I've been able to become proficient with all my powered woodworking tools.
>Except the jointer, which I thought would be the easiest to use. Can't seem
>to get an uniform cut across the length of the board, and there is a
>noticeable taper from front (first end through) to back. I've paid close
>attention to setting infeed and outfeed table heights, and a steel straight
>edge across the length of both tables shows them to be flat. Still, when I
>feed the stock through, I get machining at the start, lessening to about the
>mid point, and then little to none until the last few inches. Multiple
>passes result in a tapered board. The machine is the Jet 6" stationary long
>bed.
>
>Any and all tips appreciated.
I, and many others, have posted fairly detailed summaries concerning
the technique of setting up and using a jointer. I'm not trying to be
a smart-a#$, but if you will DAGS (Do A Google Search) for the terms
[jointer technique] in the rec.woodworking group, I'm certain you will
find an entire day's worth of reading on the subject.
Then, if you have more detail questions, ask here again.
Sounds as though you are putting too much pressure on the feed side.
You want to hold the stock down flat, but not press too hard. As the
wood goes over transfer some of the pressure to the outfeed side.
It's kinda hard to explain. Balance, technique, practice.
Our hands get tired of typing after a while...
Good Luck!
Greg G.
Okay...here's a newbie's advice...
I don't know if what you describe is happening to you on all of the
boards you're working with, but I'll pass along some advice given to me
by the teacher who taught me.
Now before I start a flame-war, keep in mind, this guy was teaching a
class of rooks, myself included. You pros out there may have
better/different technique, and if so, please share it _politely_!!
If the board you are jointing is convex _towards_ the knives, it is
very difficult to straighten it out on a jointer. This is due to the
rocking effect that takes place. In a gross exaggeration, think of
trying to "straighten out" a rocking chair's "foot"...where along the
foot would you put the pressure in order to begin flattening it?
This would be true regardless of whether you were jointing the edge or
the face of the board.
His advice was not to bother, but instead flip the board and joint the
_concave_ side first. Then, if you're jointing the face, run the board
through the planer with the jointed side down and it would flatten the
the concave side. If you're jointing the edge, run the board through
the table saw with the jointed side against the fence...the blade will
do the rest.
Of course, the other issue with the tables/knives being co-planar and
well-aligned is also true, but look into technique as well. This has
worked well for me.
Now, again, for those of you with _fantastic_ technique, BE GENTLE IN
YOUR REPLY!
A newbie wrote: "His advice was not to bother, but instead flip the
board and joint the
_concave_ side first. Then, if you're jointing the face, run the board
through the planer with the jointed side down and it would flatten the
the concave side. If you're jointing the edge, run the board through
the table saw with the jointed side against the fence...the blade will
do the rest.
Of course, the other issue with the tables/knives being co-planar and
well-aligned is also true, but look into technique as well. This has
worked well for me.
Now, again, for those of you with _fantastic_ technique, BE GENTLE IN
YOUR REPLY!"
I think, except for getting concave/convex a little mixed up, you've
decribed the technique very well. . Now grow a thicker skin so's we can
abuse you! (Insert smiley face here) Tom
tom wrote:
>
> I think, except for getting concave/convex a little mixed up, you've
> decribed the technique very well. . Now grow a thicker skin so's we can
> abuse you! (Insert smiley face here) Tom
You're right...my sentence should have read "...if you're jointing the
face, run the board through the planer with the jointed side down and
it would flatten the conVEX side."
In other words, joint the concave side, plane the convex side.
The thick skin thing made me laugh my ass off...so my butt is of course
now concave...
vernal888 wrote:
> Hello All:
> I've been able to become proficient with all my powered woodworking tools.
> Except the jointer, which I thought would be the easiest to use. Can't seem
> to get an uniform cut across the length of the board, and there is a
> noticeable taper from front (first end through) to back. I've paid close
> attention to setting infeed and outfeed table heights, and a steel straight
> edge across the length of both tables shows them to be flat. Still, when I
> feed the stock through, I get machining at the start, lessening to about the
> mid point, and then little to none until the last few inches. Multiple
> passes result in a tapered board. The machine is the Jet 6" stationary long
> bed.
>
> Any and all tips appreciated.\
the jointer is for getting an edge straight, not for getting it
parallel to anything else. once you have an edge straight, get the
other one parallel on something like a tablesaw or thickness planer.
that said, it sounds like your jointer is still slightly out of tune.
my guess is that the outfeed table is a hair high (or that the blades
are a hair low), but it could be table droop.
here's a practise exercise for you. take a board that is at least twice
the length of your jointer, straight or not, and mark a series of
lenghtwise lines on it, about 1/8" or so apart. make the lines as
straight and accurate as possible. now set the jointer for a shallow
cut- 1/64" or less and start jointing the edge to the first line. flip
the board end for end as necessary and start in the middle of the board
if necessary, but joint to the line. then do it over again to the next
line. do this a few times and you will gain considerable understanding
of and skill with the machine.
[email protected] wrote:
>
> If the board you are jointing is convex _towards_ the knives, it is
> very difficult to straighten it out on a jointer. This is due to the
> rocking effect that takes place. In a gross exaggeration, think of
> trying to "straighten out" a rocking chair's "foot"...where along the
> foot would you put the pressure in order to begin flattening it?
in the middle.
>
> This would be true regardless of whether you were jointing the edge or
> the face of the board.
>
> His advice was not to bother, but instead flip the board and joint the
> _concave_ side first. Then, if you're jointing the face, run the board
> through the planer with the jointed side down and it would flatten the
> the concave side. If you're jointing the edge, run the board through
> the table saw with the jointed side against the fence...the blade will
> do the rest.
sometimes the other edge of the board is worse, or you want to use it
for something else, for some reason you really want to joint from the
convex edge. sometimes both edges are convex. for this reason, it is a
good idea to understand and be able to joint a convex edge.
vernal888 wrote:
>
> Hello All:
> I've been able to become proficient with all my powered woodworking tools.
> Except the jointer, which I thought would be the easiest to use. Can't seem
> to get an uniform cut across the length of the board, and there is a
> noticeable taper from front (first end through) to back. I've paid close
> attention to setting infeed and outfeed table heights, and a steel straight
> edge across the length of both tables shows them to be flat. Still, when I
> feed the stock through, I get machining at the start, lessening to about the
> mid point, and then little to none until the last few inches. Multiple
> passes result in a tapered board. The machine is the Jet 6" stationary long
> bed.
>
> Any and all tips appreciated.
1. Hold the piece on the infeed table until roughly halfway along the
length, then keep same pressure on outfeed table to end.
2. If same symptoms occur, indicates one (or worse case both) of the
following...
a. Outfeed table is proud compared to knives, raising the work as you
progress resulting in the observed lack of contact towards the end.
b. Outfeed table is not coplanar w/ infeed -- one or the other sags wrt
to the other.
Start by making sure all knives are both at the same relative height and
even across the head. If that is ok, lower the outfeed table a little
and try again.
Check that besides the tables themselves being flat and straight that
the are, in fact, coplanar.
Is this a new jointer so that you still have manufacturer's warranty to
help?
Checking for co-planar can be a bit of a problem. First make certain that each
table is flat. If each is flat then it's time to check for co-planar. I use a
long bar (50") that was machined just for the purpose. I got it from Lee valley
and it was not cheap. Another way is to use two right angle triangles. Raise the
tables so that the ends next to the cutter head are even, hold a triangle at the
end of both tables and bring them together. If the sides of the triangle come
together with no gap, the tables are likely parallel. Cheers, JG
vernal888 wrote:
> Thanks for the tips. And Greg G., I'm not offended by the practical and
> appropriate direction to the Google search. I actually have been reading up
> as suggested, and thought I had been pretty thorough in following the
> advice. Need to look further into co-planar, and recheck the installation
> of all three knives more carefully. Thanks to all responders.
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > tom wrote:
> >>
> >> I think, except for getting concave/convex a little mixed up, you've
> >> decribed the technique very well. . Now grow a thicker skin so's we can
> >> abuse you! (Insert smiley face here) Tom
> >
> > You're right...my sentence should have read "...if you're jointing the
> > face, run the board through the planer with the jointed side down and
> > it would flatten the conVEX side."
> >
> > In other words, joint the concave side, plane the convex side.
> >
> > The thick skin thing made me laugh my ass off...so my butt is of course
> > now concave...
> >
[email protected] wrote:
> Okay...here's a newbie's advice...
>
> I don't know if what you describe is happening to you on all of the
> boards you're working with, but I'll pass along some advice given to me
> by the teacher who taught me.
>
> Now before I start a flame-war, keep in mind, this guy was teaching a
> class of rooks, myself included. You pros out there may have
> better/different technique, and if so, please share it _politely_!!
>
> If the board you are jointing is convex _towards_ the knives, it is
> very difficult to straighten it out on a jointer. This is due to the
> rocking effect that takes place. In a gross exaggeration, think of
> trying to "straighten out" a rocking chair's "foot"...where along the
> foot would you put the pressure in order to begin flattening it?
>
> This would be true regardless of whether you were jointing the edge or
> the face of the board.
>
> His advice was not to bother, but instead flip the board and joint the
> _concave_ side first. Then, if you're jointing the face, run the board
> through the planer with the jointed side down and it would flatten the
> the concave side. If you're jointing the edge, run the board through
> the table saw with the jointed side against the fence...the blade will
> do the rest.
>
> Of course, the other issue with the tables/knives being co-planar and
> well-aligned is also true, but look into technique as well. This has
> worked well for me.
>
> Now, again, for those of you with _fantastic_ technique, BE GENTLE IN
> YOUR REPLY!
>
I always sight down a board to be sure the concave side is down, as
you've already mentioned. Figuring out which end to put first to reduce
tear out is beyond me, so I make a pass and then check for tear out. If
there is some, of course I reverse the board and that usually resolves it.
See! I was gentle. <g>
Dave
Thanks for the tips. And Greg G., I'm not offended by the practical and
appropriate direction to the Google search. I actually have been reading up
as suggested, and thought I had been pretty thorough in following the
advice. Need to look further into co-planar, and recheck the installation
of all three knives more carefully. Thanks to all responders.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> tom wrote:
>>
>> I think, except for getting concave/convex a little mixed up, you've
>> decribed the technique very well. . Now grow a thicker skin so's we can
>> abuse you! (Insert smiley face here) Tom
>
> You're right...my sentence should have read "...if you're jointing the
> face, run the board through the planer with the jointed side down and
> it would flatten the conVEX side."
>
> In other words, joint the concave side, plane the convex side.
>
> The thick skin thing made me laugh my ass off...so my butt is of course
> now concave...
>
Dan Kratville said:
>I am a newbie to this news group stuff (woodworking too). Could you
>explain how I do a google search of a news group. I have many basic
>questions that I am shy to ask for the very reasons you just stated.
>Thanks!
Sure, Dan,
Just go here, bookmark it for later.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking?hl=en
Then type your search criteria into the box in the yellowish bar, and
have at it.
Good Luck,
Greg G.
Don't rush the setup. I got my first jointer a few months ago and
my enthusiasm was tempered by the long time it took me to set it up
perfectly. But my results from the beginning were great. Oneway
has a really nice dial gage fixture that can really make it precise,
but a lot of care, a good straightedge, and a 90 degree square
is all you really need.
vernal888 wrote:
> Thanks for the tips. And Greg G., I'm not offended by the practical and
> appropriate direction to the Google search. I actually have been reading up
> as suggested, and thought I had been pretty thorough in following the
> advice. Need to look further into co-planar, and recheck the installation
> of all three knives more carefully. Thanks to all responders.
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
Greg G. wrote:
> vernal888 said:
>
>
>>Hello All:
>>I've been able to become proficient with all my powered woodworking tools.
>>Except the jointer, which I thought would be the easiest to use. Can't seem
>>to get an uniform cut across the length of the board, and there is a
>>noticeable taper from front (first end through) to back. I've paid close
>>attention to setting infeed and outfeed table heights, and a steel straight
>>edge across the length of both tables shows them to be flat. Still, when I
>>feed the stock through, I get machining at the start, lessening to about the
>>mid point, and then little to none until the last few inches. Multiple
>>passes result in a tapered board. The machine is the Jet 6" stationary long
>>bed.
>>
>>Any and all tips appreciated.
>
>
> I, and many others, have posted fairly detailed summaries concerning
> the technique of setting up and using a jointer. I'm not trying to be
> a smart-a#$, but if you will DAGS (Do A Google Search) for the terms
> [jointer technique] in the rec.woodworking group, I'm certain you will
> find an entire day's worth of reading on the subject.
>
> Then, if you have more detail questions, ask here again.
>
> Sounds as though you are putting too much pressure on the feed side.
> You want to hold the stock down flat, but not press too hard. As the
> wood goes over transfer some of the pressure to the outfeed side.
> It's kinda hard to explain. Balance, technique, practice.
>
> Our hands get tired of typing after a while...
> Good Luck!
>
> Greg G.
I am a newbie to this news group stuff (woodworking too). Could you
explain how I do a google search of a news group. I have many basic
questions that I am shy to ask for the very reasons you just stated.
Thanks!
Dan
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:26:30 -0500, "vernal888"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks for the tips. And Greg G., I'm not offended by the practical and
>appropriate direction to the Google search. I actually have been reading up
>as suggested, and thought I had been pretty thorough in following the
>advice. Need to look further into co-planar, and recheck the installation
>of all three knives more carefully. Thanks to all responders.
Lets assume that the machine tables are good to each other and that
the highest knife is not too much higher than the others. Assuming
the machine is basically okay then the problem you describe has to be
that the out-feed table is too high as has been suggested.
My suggestion would be to set the machine so that that it should be
taking off a small amount. Run a piece a straight stock through to
make sure your taking off just a small amount. Next, lower the
out-feed table a small amount and run the piece of stock through
again. Check the stock to see if you get snipe at the very end of the
piece. If there is no snipe bring the out-feed table down a little
more and run the piece again. Continue this (with small adjustments)
until you see a little snipe at the end of the piece. Once you see
some snipe at the end of the piece, you are a little too low on the
out feed table. Now, go the other way and raise the out-feed table
very slightly. Run the piece again and check for snipe. If you still
have snipe raise the out-feed table a hair and run the piece again.
You want no snipe but there is a fine line between snipe and no snipe.
That's the line you're looking for.
Mike O.