Harbor Freight Multi-tool WOW!

On 2/26/2010 10:54 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

> Of course it is; marketing is an inescapable part of modern business.
> That makes them no worse than any other tool dealer or manufacturer, at
> least.

As they say, marketing is the practice of convincing fools they can pick
up a turd by the clean end, and the biggest problem with modern
marketing is that government entities are now practicing it, due mainly
to the proliferation of fools.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd been wondering if those things really DO anything but vibrate and was
> reading all the posts when my wife tells me that she and a neighbor are
> going to
> the States Thursday on a shopping trip..
> Hmmm... Yuma has a small HF!
>
> So I give her a page out of readers digest with all the coupons, tell her
> that
> I'll try the basic one for $34 before I consider the $80 VS model..
>
> Good news: They had them in stock and even with the straight blade that it
> comes
> with, I'm flat amazed how well it cuts!
>
> Bad news: Shy happens to mention that "I almost called you about the
> variable
> speed one, but you said you wanted the cheap one"..
> Turns out that IT was on sale for $49, so for another $15 I could have had
> the
> newer model.. arggg
>
> Anyway, all I've done with it so far is some plunge cuts in pine 1 x 4
> scraps,
> but I'm really impressed.. She watched me unpack it and put a blade on and
> neither one of us thought it would even cut.. Hell, it looks just like my
> HF
> detail sander...
>
> I'd recommend this tool to anyone that can afford it.. Just don't see how
> you
> can go wrong at $34..
>
> OH.. she also bought 3 different blades for it, since I gave her a 20% off
> coupon.. Cool!
>
There ya go.

You now have just the tool to cut through those big ironwood logs you like
to play with all the time!

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:37:36 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 2/27/10 7:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:19:55 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
>> <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "David Nebenzahl"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>>>>>> similar to Fein's new one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
>>>>> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
>>>>> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
>>>>> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>>>>
>>>> Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that being
>>>> able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just pointing
>>>> out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably better
>>>> tool-mounting system.
>>>> --
>>>>
>>> I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even if
>>> the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct coies of
>>> theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved version.
>>>
>>> Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>>>
>>> And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>>>
>>> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
>>> you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ...Except there is no mounting problem on the original single speed
>> unit. Someone has posted that their unit lacks the 4 positioning nubs.
>> That's a manufacturing defect, not a design defect.
>>
>> I just looked in the owners booklet. The arbor is called a "spindle"
>> in their terms. If your spindle doesn't have nubs, you can call
>> 1-800-444-3353 and discuss it with tech support. Maybe they will send
>> you a new one.
>>
>> Also note that the instructions say not to use the long rectangular
>> blades in any position except straight out in front.
>>
>
> From the manual...
>"3. Note: Some units may have small holes inthe attachments and/or pins
>on the spindle shoulder. These are not used or required for this model."
>
>This tells me two things.
>1) It's not defective if the "nubs" (pins) are not there. Defective
>means, "oops, we forgot to put them on." Not, "we decided later, to
>improve the model with nubs."
>b) It would be quite a bit of spin/deception on their part to change the
>manual on all the older single speed models to try to hide the fact that
>they are selling off the old stick that was defective.
>
>Did they change the design? Probably.
>Are they trying to deceive? Possibly.

If you don't have the nubs, your unit is defective. Call the number I
provided and see if they will send you a correct spindle.

I have a single speed model and it has the nubs. If you look very
carefully with a high powred electron microscope, you may notice that
*ALL* blades for the tool have holes for mating to those nubs.

On 2/26/2010 1:08 AM, mac davis wrote:
> I'd been wondering if those things really DO anything but vibrate and was
> reading all the posts when my wife tells me that she and a neighbor are going to
> the States Thursday on a shopping trip..
> Hmmm... Yuma has a small HF!
>
> So I give her a page out of readers digest with all the coupons, tell her that
> I'll try the basic one for $34 before I consider the $80 VS model..
>
> Good news: They had them in stock and even with the straight blade that it comes
> with, I'm flat amazed how well it cuts!
>
> Bad news: Shy happens to mention that "I almost called you about the variable
> speed one, but you said you wanted the cheap one"..
> Turns out that IT was on sale for $49, so for another $15 I could have had the
> newer model.. arggg
>
> Anyway, all I've done with it so far is some plunge cuts in pine 1 x 4 scraps,
> but I'm really impressed.. She watched me unpack it and put a blade on and
> neither one of us thought it would even cut.. Hell, it looks just like my HF
> detail sander...
>
> I'd recommend this tool to anyone that can afford it.. Just don't see how you
> can go wrong at $34..
>
> OH.. she also bought 3 different blades for it, since I gave her a 20% off
> coupon.. Cool!
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
Just about the same reaction when I got mine. Those things are really
cool.

Bill

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:03:09 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2010-02-26, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>
>I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>
>nb

I really don't see it as a problem.. I find that if I torque it with the wrench
provided and check it between cuts, it holds fine.. Especially for a $34 power
tool..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:

> On 2/26/10 5:03 PM, notbob wrote:
>
>> On 2010-02-26, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>
>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>
> I've never experience them coming loose.

Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35 recently)
has this problem. After looking at the mounting system for the cutting
tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on the mounting plate that
could easily get worn down.

The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
similar to Fein's new one.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

"notbob" wrote:
> What would
> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
-------------------------------------
Edge cuts or where control is req'd..

Lew

On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:

> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>> similar to Fein's new one.
>
> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
> OTOH, I have no experience with one.

Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that
being able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just
pointing out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably
better tool-mounting system.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

"David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:
>
>> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>>> similar to Fein's new one.
>>
>> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
>> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
>> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
>> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>
> Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that being
> able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just pointing
> out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably better
> tool-mounting system.
> --
>
I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even if
the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct coies of
theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved version.

Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.

And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.

They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.

On 2/26/2010 8:19 PM Lee Michaels spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:
>>
>>> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>>>> similar to Fein's new one.
>>>
>>> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
>>> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
>>> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
>>> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>>
>> Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that being
>> able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just pointing
>> out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably better
>> tool-mounting system.
>>
> I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even if
> the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct coies of
> theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved version.
>
> Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>
> And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>
> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
> you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.

Of course it is; marketing is an inescapable part of modern business.
That makes them no worse than any other tool dealer or manufacturer, at
least.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On 2/27/2010 5:41 AM [email protected] spake thus:

> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:54:25 -0800, David Nebenzahl
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>>
>>> On 2/26/10 5:03 PM, notbob wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2010-02-26, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>>
>>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>>
>>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>>
>> Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35
>> recently) has this problem. After looking at the mounting system
>> for the cutting tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on
>> the mounting plate that could easily get worn down.
>
> As the nubs go into holes in the attached blade, how are they going to
> "wear down", unless you mount the bald incorrectly? Do you expect a
> problem with keys in keyways wearing down?

Easy; since the "spindle" with the nubs is diecast, and the blades are
steel, the edge of the blades could easily wear into the fairly small
nubs. In fact, I seem to remember this very problem being reported here
(or was it on alt.home.repair?) for this tool.

I guess if it were me designing the thing, I would have bored holes in
the spindle and press-fitted steel pins there.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On 3/1/2010 2:46 PM [email protected] spake thus:

> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:03:24 -0800, David Nebenzahl
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/27/2010 5:41 AM [email protected] spake thus:
>>
>>> As the nubs go into holes in the attached blade, how are they going to
>>> "wear down", unless you mount the bald incorrectly? Do you expect a
>>> problem with keys in keyways wearing down?
>>
>> Easy; since the "spindle" with the nubs is diecast,
>
> It's not!
>
>> and the blades are steel, the edge of the blades could easily wear
>> into the fairly small nubs. In fact, I seem to remember this very
>> problem being reported here (or was it on alt.home.repair?) for
>> this tool.
>>
>> I guess if it were me designing the thing, I would have bored holes
>> in the spindle and press-fitted steel pins there.
>
> Well surprise, surprise, surprise! I just got home and looked at my
> Harbor Freight Multi-tool (to be SURE before I posted a wild guess,
> like you did). Guess what! They used your design!!!
>
> The nubs are hardened steel pins set in holes in the spindle.

Well, I just looked at mine and whaddya know, you're right. So I guess I
stand (or sit in this case) corrected.

And theoretically if the pins ever did wear down, they could (maybe) be
replaced (or for that matter, just get a new "spindle" from HF).


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On 3/1/2010 11:38 PM mac davis spake thus:

> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:03:44 -0800, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, I just looked at mine and whaddya know, you're right. So I
>> guess I stand (or sit in this case) corrected.
>>
>> And theoretically if the pins ever did wear down, they could
>> (maybe) be replaced (or for that matter, just get a new "spindle"
>> from HF).
>
> That would be like taking a goldfish to the vet.. He'd just tell you to get
> another one...

Yeah, you're probably right. The whole tool should be considered a FRU
(field-replaceable unit).


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Anybody have a HF link to this incredible tool youse guys keep going on
> about?
>
> --
Here is one. The basic one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?itemnumber=67256

Here is the other. The advanced model with the variable speeds, etc.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67537

"Steve Turner" wrote
> On 03/02/2010 12:44 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> Anybody have a HF link to this incredible tool youse guys keep going on
>> about?
>
> Thanks Dawg, Lee, and J. I searched for "multi" and "multi-tool" and came
> up empty. I didn't think to search for "multi-function" or
> "multifunction"; you'd figure "multi" would find those, but I guess not...
>
> --
I had the same problem. I looked number of times and did not find anything.
Which is why you need the magic phrase to find anything in cyber space.

It helps a lot that Harbor Freight is actively promoting these things. I
have seen them on sale almost constantly for awhile lately. I even got a
flyer in the paper at my house recently This is the first one ever in my
city. You just about can't go outside without tripping over one of these
"multi'function" tools! Didm't you notice anything the last time you went
outside? ;)

It is also on the Harbor Freight opening page on their website now.

The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals. As for the older Fein's
slipping. Yes, they did but I rather believe the design change was a
step they took to discourage knockoffs as their patent was expiring.
I'm looking forward to increased competition in the accessories since
basically all the accessories are interchangeable with the
Fein--though not necessarily vice versa. As much as I love this tool I
was always galled at having to by $50.00+ for a stamped blade that
probably cost no more than a dollar to produce.

On Mar 1, 11:35=A0pm, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
> > be designated the tool of the Century. =A0I'm now on my second Fein and
> > even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
> > incredible tool. =A0However, I have always been offended by the
> > outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
> > That is changing. =A0Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
> > the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. =A0The blades, etc.
> > produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
> > hold a candle to the Fein accessories. =A0The good news is that there
> > are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
> > for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals.
>
> Got any specific sites you recommend?

Here's a discussion:
http://tinyurl.com/yzkamrr

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:19:55 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:
>>
>>> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>>>> similar to Fein's new one.
>>>
>>> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
>>> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
>>> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
>>> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>>
>> Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that being
>> able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just pointing
>> out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably better
>> tool-mounting system.
>> --
>>
>I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even if
>the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct coies of
>theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved version.
>
>Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>
>And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>
>They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
>you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.
>
>

...Except there is no mounting problem on the original single speed
unit. Someone has posted that their unit lacks the 4 positioning nubs.
That's a manufacturing defect, not a design defect.

I just looked in the owners booklet. The arbor is called a "spindle"
in their terms. If your spindle doesn't have nubs, you can call
1-800-444-3353 and discuss it with tech support. Maybe they will send
you a new one.

Also note that the instructions say not to use the long rectangular
blades in any position except straight out in front.

"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even
> if the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct
> coies of theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved
> version.
>
> Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>
> And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>
> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
> you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.
>

I'm not so sure Lee. They don't seem to be too marketing savvy. It seems
they approach things with a more simplistic philosophy - simply copy. I
suspect the originals were simply the product that had initially been
produced to copy the Fein, and now they have to get rid of the stock, since
they are now copying the improved version.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:03:24 -0800, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]>
wrote:


>Easy; since the "spindle" with the nubs is diecast, and the blades are
>steel, the edge of the blades could easily wear into the fairly small
>nubs. In fact, I seem to remember this very problem being reported here
>(or was it on alt.home.repair?) for this tool.
>
>I guess if it were me designing the thing, I would have bored holes in
>the spindle and press-fitted steel pins there.

I think you're making a big thing out of the quality of a $35 power tool...
It works, the blades are cheap, the tool is cheap.. use it until it needs
replacing and spend another $35..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose. Number
One son got me a Dremel as a replacement, but have yet to give it a good
workout. Will report back when I do.

Larry


mac davis wrote:
> I'd been wondering if those things really DO anything but vibrate and was
> reading all the posts when my wife tells me that she and a neighbor are going to
> the States Thursday on a shopping trip..
> Hmmm... Yuma has a small HF!
>
> So I give her a page out of readers digest with all the coupons, tell her that
> I'll try the basic one for $34 before I consider the $80 VS model..
>
> Good news: They had them in stock and even with the straight blade that it comes
> with, I'm flat amazed how well it cuts!
>
> Bad news: Shy happens to mention that "I almost called you about the variable
> speed one, but you said you wanted the cheap one"..
> Turns out that IT was on sale for $49, so for another $15 I could have had the
> newer model.. arggg
>
> Anyway, all I've done with it so far is some plunge cuts in pine 1 x 4 scraps,
> but I'm really impressed.. She watched me unpack it and put a blade on and
> neither one of us thought it would even cut.. Hell, it looks just like my HF
> detail sander...
>
> I'd recommend this tool to anyone that can afford it.. Just don't see how you
> can go wrong at $34..
>
> OH.. she also bought 3 different blades for it, since I gave her a 20% off
> coupon.. Cool!
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing

-MIKE- <[email protected]> writes:

> From the manual...
> "3. Note: Some units may have small holes inthe attachments and/or
> pins on the spindle shoulder. These are not used or required for this
> model."

Mine (model 67256) says on Page 8

2. Place attachment over Spindle (5) shoulder facinf
forward. Line up the holes on the attachment with the tabs on the
Spindle shoulder (See Figure A).

3. Attachmentsa may be mounted at angles up to 90 degrees left or
right. The attachment should not turn on the spindle. If it can
turn, make sure that the holes on the attachment line up with the
tabs on the spindle and tighten the cap screw securely.

mac davis <[email protected]> writes:

> I'd recommend this tool to anyone that can afford it.. Just don't see how you
> can go wrong at $34..

The local store sent out a flyer with two coupons
20% off
Multi-tool - $34.99
Now normally you can use one coupon or the other. Not both.

However, they forgot to remove the sale price tag, which said $34.99

So I got it for $27.99

Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they
> "upgrade" you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at
> Harbor Freight.

If so, they're doing it backwards. The best method is to start with the
advanced model.

In years gone by, Polaroid was the master of this technique. A new model
camera appears on the market for $200. After a year or so, they change some
of the metal parts for plastic, now it's $150. After another year, they
change the packaging, color, and eliminate the cheesy accessories. New price
$75.

Point is, if some folks are willing to pay $200, give them the chance to do
so before you offer the product at $75.

On 2010-02-26, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.

I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
only in the occassional home DIY environment?

nb

On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:

> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
> similar to Fein's new one.

Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
OTOH, I have no experience with one.

nb

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in news:0-
[email protected]:

> On 2/26/2010 10:54 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> Of course it is; marketing is an inescapable part of modern business.
>> That makes them no worse than any other tool dealer or manufacturer, at
>> least.
>
> As they say, marketing is the practice of convincing fools they can pick
> up a turd by the clean end, and the biggest problem with modern
> marketing is that government entities are now practicing it, due mainly
> to the proliferation of fools.

Thanks to the school systems that proliferate superstitions, and deliver
high school graduates that (should be who, but they're not really fully
grown people) only read at 2nd grade level.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mar 1, 11:18=A0pm, Joe Bleau <[email protected]> wrote:
> The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
> be designated the tool of the Century. =A0I'm now on my second Fein and
> even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
> incredible tool. =A0However, I have always been offended by the
> outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
> That is changing. =A0Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
> the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. =A0The blades, etc.
> produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
> hold a candle to the Fein accessories. =A0The good news is that there
> are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
> for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals. =A0As for the older Fein's
> slipping. =A0Yes, they did but I rather believe the design change was a
> step they took to discourage knockoffs as their patent was expiring.
> I'm looking forward to increased competition in the accessories since
> basically all the accessories are interchangeable with the
> Fein--though not necessarily vice versa. As much as I love this tool I
> was always galled at having to by $50.00+ for a stamped blade that
> probably cost no more than a dollar to produce.

Fein makes a ring with grit that fits between the blade and the arbour
which greatly reduces slippagea. Slippage has not really been a
problem for me although it has happened on occasion.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 01:28:46 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:62c4514d-a340-4108-acc3-eafa011eb3cf@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>On Mar 1, 11:35 pm, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> > The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
>> > be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
>> > even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
>> > incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
>> > outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
>> > That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
>> > the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
>> > produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
>> > hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
>> > are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
>> > for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals.
>>
>> Got any specific sites you recommend?
>
>Here's a discussion:
>http://tinyurl.com/yzkamrr
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>But seemingly not about cut price Fein originals.

My client, to whom I showed my HFMFT, bought a Dremel. I got a
triangle rasp from HF for him and it doesn't fit! Hole pattern is a
bit different. He may buy an HF to go with it, anyway.

Heads up on blade interchanges!

--
An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
-- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:54:01 -0800, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2/26/2010 8:19 PM Lee Michaels spake thus:
>
>> "David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
> >
>>> On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:
>>>
>>>> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>>>>> similar to Fein's new one.
>>>>
>>>> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
>>>> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
>>>> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
>>>> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>>>
>>> Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that being
>>> able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just pointing
>>> out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably better
>>> tool-mounting system.
>>>
>> I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even if
>> the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct coies of
>> theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved version.
>>
>> Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>>
>> And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>>
>> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
>> you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.
>
>Of course it is; marketing is an inescapable part of modern business.
>That makes them no worse than any other tool dealer or manufacturer, at
>least.

Except they didn't do what you two are accusing them of.

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:21:29 -0500, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Just to be the oddball and talk about the topic, if marketing means selling a
good tool like this one at a fair price, I like it..


>
>"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even
>> if the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct
>> coies of theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved
>> version.
>>
>> Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>>
>> And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>>
>> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
>> you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.
>>
>
>I'm not so sure Lee. They don't seem to be too marketing savvy. It seems
>they approach things with a more simplistic philosophy - simply copy. I
>suspect the originals were simply the product that had initially been
>produced to copy the Fein, and now they have to get rid of the stock, since
>they are now copying the improved version.


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On 2010-02-27, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

> It's not hard to tighten it properly, unless you are quite
> limp-wristed. :-)

Not likely. Not only been twisting wrenches all my life, I got the
long shank versions. Dang! ....shoulda picked one up when I was in the
big city. ;)

nb

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 23:37:19 -0800, the infamous mac davis
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:03:24 -0800, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Easy; since the "spindle" with the nubs is diecast, and the blades are
>>steel, the edge of the blades could easily wear into the fairly small
>>nubs. In fact, I seem to remember this very problem being reported here
>>(or was it on alt.home.repair?) for this tool.
>>
>>I guess if it were me designing the thing, I would have bored holes in
>>the spindle and press-fitted steel pins there.
>
>I think you're making a big thing out of the quality of a $35 power tool...
>It works, the blades are cheap, the tool is cheap.. use it until it needs
>replacing and spend another $35..

I got an HF MFT for that price, have used it 4 times now, and I'm
still finding things new and wondrous things to do with it.

I picked up the triangle rasp (carbide grit) this weekend but haven't
used it yet. I hope they last well.

--
Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both.
--Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:54:25 -0800, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>
>> On 2/26/10 5:03 PM, notbob wrote:
> >
>>> On 2010-02-26, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>
>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>
>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>
>Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35 recently)
>has this problem. After looking at the mounting system for the cutting
>tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on the mounting plate that
>could easily get worn down.
>

As the nubs go into holes in the attached blade, how are they going to
"wear down", unless you mount the bald incorrectly? Do you expect a
problem with keys in keyways wearing down?

mac davis wrote:

Yep. It's like a Xerox machine; once you get it, you wonder how you ever
lived without it.

Tip: When the cutting blade wears down to a scraper-only configuration (or
if you have a spare scraper blade), cut as many notches in it with a Dremel
rotary tool and you're good to go.

Won't be quite as good as one with pointy teeth, but it's surprising how
well the modified blade works.

Wanna have some fun? Demonstrate a physical principle?

Take a glass of water, pour a small amount of oil on the top. Turn on your
MF tool and dip the tip in the liquid.

POOF! Instant emulsification!

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:26:07 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 2/27/10 7:42 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:20:43 -0600, -MIKE-<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/10 8:54 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>> On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>>>>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>>>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>>>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35 recently)
>>>> has this problem. After looking at the mounting system for the cutting
>>>> tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on the mounting plate that
>>>> could easily get worn down.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's the one I have. There are no nubs anywhere. There are four
>>> holes in the blades that do not correspond with with anything on the
>>> tool. The tool has tiny rings that give it some texture. When I take a
>>> blade off, I notice how the rings get embossed onto the blades.
>>>
>>
>> Sounds as if you got a defective unit.
>>
>
>Sound like you don't know what you're talking about.

Then your hearing is poor.

mac davis wrote:

> I'd been wondering if those things really DO anything but vibrate and
was
> reading all the posts when my wife tells me that she and a neighbor are
> going to the States Thursday on a shopping trip..
> Hmmm... Yuma has a small HF!
>
> So I give her a page out of readers digest with all the coupons, tell
her
> that I'll try the basic one for $34 before I consider the $80 VS model..
>
> Good news: They had them in stock and even with the straight blade that
it
> comes with, I'm flat amazed how well it cuts!
>
> Bad news: Shy happens to mention that "I almost called you about the
> variable speed one, but you said you wanted the cheap one"..
> Turns out that IT was on sale for $49, so for another $15 I could have
had
> the newer model.. arggg
>
> Anyway, all I've done with it so far is some plunge cuts in pine 1 x 4
> scraps, but I'm really impressed.. She watched me unpack it and put a
> blade on and neither one of us thought it would even cut.. Hell, it
looks
> just like my HF detail sander...
>
> I'd recommend this tool to anyone that can afford it.. Just don't see
how
> you can go wrong at $34..
>
> OH.. she also bought 3 different blades for it, since I gave her a 20%
off
> coupon.. Cool!
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
Had mine for a year now and it's still going strong, and I use it at least
3 times a week for, cutting drywall for electrical outlets, cutting
baseboard when replacing with wider door casing, removing tile grout and
many other uses I can't think of now. I would suggest using the Dremel or
Bosch blades available at most of your Big Box stores. Those blades fit my
older model, not sure about the new one.
--
You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK !
Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3
Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz

On 2/26/10 5:03 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2010-02-26, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>
> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>
> nb

I've never experience them coming loose.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/26/2010 6:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/26/10 5:03 PM, notbob wrote:
>> On 2010-02-26, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>
>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>
>> nb
>
> I've never experience them coming loose.

FWIW, the blade on an original Fein will come loose too. That's why
they went to the toothed drive.

On 2/26/10 8:54 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>
>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>
>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>
> Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35 recently)
> has this problem. After looking at the mounting system for the cutting
> tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on the mounting plate that
> could easily get worn down.
>

That's the one I have. There are no nubs anywhere. There are four
holes in the blades that do not correspond with with anything on the
tool. The tool has tiny rings that give it some texture. When I take a
blade off, I notice how the rings get embossed onto the blades.

It's possible there is a new version of the single speed tool that has
nubs. Mine have nothing. I have noticed on the old one that it's easy
to mount the blade NOT perfectly centered over a center ring on the
tool, which would interfere with it being fully tightened.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/26/2010 10:20 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/26/10 8:54 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>>
>>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>>
>>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>>
>> Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35 recently)
>> has this problem. After looking at the mounting system for the cutting
>> tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on the mounting plate that
>> could easily get worn down.
>>
>
> That's the one I have. There are no nubs anywhere. There are four holes
> in the blades that do not correspond with with anything on the tool. The
> tool has tiny rings that give it some texture. When I take a blade off,
> I notice how the rings get embossed onto the blades.
>
> It's possible there is a new version of the single speed tool that has
> nubs. Mine have nothing. I have noticed on the old one that it's easy to
> mount the blade NOT perfectly centered over a center ring on the tool,
> which would interfere with it being fully tightened.

And that problem also occurs with the original Fein.

On 2/26/10 9:51 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>> similar to Fein's new one.
>
> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>
> nb

I think there could be an advantage to slower speeds or sanding and
scraping.
Sanding too fast could burn or clog, etc., for example.

But you're right about cutting... seems the faster it is, the more
control you have.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/27/2010 2:16 AM, mac davis wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:03:09 GMT, notbob<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-02-26, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>
>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>
>> nb
>
> I really don't see it as a problem.. I find that if I torque it with the wrench
> provided and check it between cuts, it holds fine.. Especially for a $34 power
> tool..

Has anybody tried the Fein star-mount adapter on it?
<http://www.amazon.com/Fein-3-01-09-189-01-0-Mount-Adaptor-MultiMaster/dp/B000F6G896/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1267276045&sr=1-22>
or <http://preview.tinyurl.com/yzg4hyk>

On 2/27/10 7:42 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:20:43 -0600, -MIKE-<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/10 8:54 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>> On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>>>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>>>
>>>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>>>
>>> Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35 recently)
>>> has this problem. After looking at the mounting system for the cutting
>>> tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on the mounting plate that
>>> could easily get worn down.
>>>
>>
>> That's the one I have. There are no nubs anywhere. There are four
>> holes in the blades that do not correspond with with anything on the
>> tool. The tool has tiny rings that give it some texture. When I take a
>> blade off, I notice how the rings get embossed onto the blades.
>>
>
> Sounds as if you got a defective unit.
>

Sound like you don't know what you're talking about.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/27/10 7:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:19:55 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
> <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> "David Nebenzahl"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:
>>>
>>>> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>>>>> similar to Fein's new one.
>>>>
>>>> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
>>>> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
>>>> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
>>>> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>>>
>>> Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that being
>>> able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just pointing
>>> out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably better
>>> tool-mounting system.
>>> --
>>>
>> I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even if
>> the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct coies of
>> theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved version.
>>
>> Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>>
>> And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>>
>> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
>> you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.
>>
>>
>
> ...Except there is no mounting problem on the original single speed
> unit. Someone has posted that their unit lacks the 4 positioning nubs.
> That's a manufacturing defect, not a design defect.
>
> I just looked in the owners booklet. The arbor is called a "spindle"
> in their terms. If your spindle doesn't have nubs, you can call
> 1-800-444-3353 and discuss it with tech support. Maybe they will send
> you a new one.
>
> Also note that the instructions say not to use the long rectangular
> blades in any position except straight out in front.
>

From the manual...
"3. Note: Some units may have small holes inthe attachments and/or pins
on the spindle shoulder. These are not used or required for this model."

This tells me two things.
1) It's not defective if the "nubs" (pins) are not there. Defective
means, "oops, we forgot to put them on." Not, "we decided later, to
improve the model with nubs."
b) It would be quite a bit of spin/deception on their part to change the
manual on all the older single speed models to try to hide the fact that
they are selling off the old stick that was defective.

Did they change the design? Probably.
Are they trying to deceive? Possibly.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/27/10 12:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:37:36 -0600, -MIKE-<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/27/10 7:50 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:19:55 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
>>> <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "David Nebenzahl"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On 2/26/2010 7:51 PM notbob spake thus:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2010-02-27, David Nebenzahl<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The "new" (variable-speed) tool has an improved mounting system, perhaps
>>>>>>> similar to Fein's new one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you still referring to the Harbor Freight unit (var)? What would
>>>>>> be the advantage to one of these tools being variable? If slowed
>>>>>> down too much, seems it would lose its effectiveness and bog down.
>>>>>> OTOH, I have no experience with one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I wasn't commenting on that aspect of the tool, I agree that being
>>>>> able to vary the speed isn't a plus in my book either. I was just pointing
>>>>> out that the variable-speed version has a different, presumably better
>>>>> tool-mounting system.
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>> I guess when Harbor Freight copies a tool, they really copy a tool. Even if
>>>> the original tool had flaws. This would appear to be two distinct coies of
>>>> theoriginal. I would have been more impressed with an imporved version.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe they figure a cheapie model with the bad blade mounting.
>>>>
>>>> And a more expensive model with the mounting problem solved.
>>>>
>>>> They get their foot in the door with a cheap knockoff. Then they "upgrade"
>>>> you to a better model. Marketing is alive and well at Harbor Freight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ...Except there is no mounting problem on the original single speed
>>> unit. Someone has posted that their unit lacks the 4 positioning nubs.
>>> That's a manufacturing defect, not a design defect.
>>>
>>> I just looked in the owners booklet. The arbor is called a "spindle"
>>> in their terms. If your spindle doesn't have nubs, you can call
>>> 1-800-444-3353 and discuss it with tech support. Maybe they will send
>>> you a new one.
>>>
>>> Also note that the instructions say not to use the long rectangular
>>> blades in any position except straight out in front.
>>>
>>
>> From the manual...
>> "3. Note: Some units may have small holes inthe attachments and/or pins
>> on the spindle shoulder. These are not used or required for this model."
>>
>> This tells me two things.
>> 1) It's not defective if the "nubs" (pins) are not there. Defective
>> means, "oops, we forgot to put them on." Not, "we decided later, to
>> improve the model with nubs."
>> b) It would be quite a bit of spin/deception on their part to change the
>> manual on all the older single speed models to try to hide the fact that
>> they are selling off the old stick that was defective.
>>
>> Did they change the design? Probably.
>> Are they trying to deceive? Possibly.
>
> If you don't have the nubs, your unit is defective. Call the number I
> provided and see if they will send you a correct spindle.
>
> I have a single speed model and it has the nubs. If you look very
> carefully with a high powred electron microscope, you may notice that
> *ALL* blades for the tool have holes for mating to those nubs.
>

Like I wrote, that isn't "defective." That's a design change.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
> be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
> even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
> incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
> outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
> That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
> the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
> produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
> hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
> are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
> for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals.

Got any specific sites you recommend?

On 03/01/2010 10:18 PM, Joe Bleau wrote:
> The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
> be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
> even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
> incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
> outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
> That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
> the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
> produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
> hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
> are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
> for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals. As for the older Fein's
> slipping. Yes, they did but I rather believe the design change was a
> step they took to discourage knockoffs as their patent was expiring.
> I'm looking forward to increased competition in the accessories since
> basically all the accessories are interchangeable with the
> Fein--though not necessarily vice versa. As much as I love this tool I
> was always galled at having to by $50.00+ for a stamped blade that
> probably cost no more than a dollar to produce.

Anybody have a HF link to this incredible tool youse guys keep going on about?

--
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"I am we Todd it. I am sofa king we Todd it."
To reply, eat the taco.
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Steve Turner wrote:

> On 03/01/2010 10:18 PM, Joe Bleau wrote:
>> The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
>> be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
>> even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
>> incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
>> outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
>> That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
>> the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
>> produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
>> hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
>> are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
>> for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals. As for the older Fein's
>> slipping. Yes, they did but I rather believe the design change was a
>> step they took to discourage knockoffs as their patent was expiring.
>> I'm looking forward to increased competition in the accessories since
>> basically all the accessories are interchangeable with the
>> Fein--though not necessarily vice versa. As much as I love this tool I
>> was always galled at having to by $50.00+ for a stamped blade that
>> probably cost no more than a dollar to produce.
>
> Anybody have a HF link to this incredible tool youse guys keep going on
> about?
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67256
--
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but you can't make them THINK !
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Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz

On 3/2/2010 1:44 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 03/01/2010 10:18 PM, Joe Bleau wrote:
>> The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
>> be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
>> even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
>> incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
>> outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
>> That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
>> the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
>> produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
>> hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
>> are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
>> for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals. As for the older Fein's
>> slipping. Yes, they did but I rather believe the design change was a
>> step they took to discourage knockoffs as their patent was expiring.
>> I'm looking forward to increased competition in the accessories since
>> basically all the accessories are interchangeable with the
>> Fein--though not necessarily vice versa. As much as I love this tool I
>> was always galled at having to by $50.00+ for a stamped blade that
>> probably cost no more than a dollar to produce.
>
> Anybody have a HF link to this incredible tool youse guys keep going on
> about?

If you search "multi function" on the HF site you'll find it--there are
two,
<http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67256>
and
<http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67537>.

On 03/02/2010 12:44 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
> Anybody have a HF link to this incredible tool youse guys keep going on
> about?

Thanks Dawg, Lee, and J. I searched for "multi" and "multi-tool" and came up empty. I
didn't think to search for "multi-function" or "multifunction"; you'd figure "multi" would
find those, but I guess not...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
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"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:62c4514d-a340-4108-acc3-eafa011eb3cf@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 1, 11:35 pm, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
> > be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
> > even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
> > incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
> > outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
> > That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
> > the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
> > produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
> > hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
> > are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
> > for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals.
>
> Got any specific sites you recommend?

Here's a discussion:
http://tinyurl.com/yzkamrr

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
But seemingly not about cut price Fein originals.

On 3/3/10 4:12 PM, Maxwell Lol wrote:
> -MIKE-<[email protected]> writes:
>
>> From the manual...
>> "3. Note: Some units may have small holes inthe attachments and/or
>> pins on the spindle shoulder. These are not used or required for this
>> model."
>
> Mine (model 67256) says on Page 8
>
> 2. Place attachment over Spindle (5) shoulder facinf
> forward. Line up the holes on the attachment with the tabs on the
> Spindle shoulder (See Figure A).
>
> 3. Attachmentsa may be mounted at angles up to 90 degrees left or
> right. The attachment should not turn on the spindle. If it can
> turn, make sure that the holes on the attachment line up with the
> tabs on the spindle and tighten the cap screw securely.
>

Apparently, yours falls into the "some units" category.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 01:28:46 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:62c4514d-a340-4108-acc3-eafa011eb3cf@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>On Mar 1, 11:35 pm, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Joe Bleau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> > The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
>>> > be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
>>> > even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
>>> > incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
>>> > outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
>>> > That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
>>> > the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
>>> > produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
>>> > hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
>>> > are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
>>> > for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals.
>>>
>>> Got any specific sites you recommend?
>>
>>Here's a discussion:
>>http://tinyurl.com/yzkamrr
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>But seemingly not about cut price Fein originals.
>
> My client, to whom I showed my HFMFT, bought a Dremel. I got a
> triangle rasp from HF for him and it doesn't fit! Hole pattern is a
> bit different. He may buy an HF to go with it, anyway.
>
> Heads up on blade interchanges!

Thanks! I've got one of the original Fein variable speed models, bought at a
time when I had more money then sense. I still have the Fein, but now have
neither money nor sense.

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:03:44 -0800, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 3/1/2010 2:46 PM [email protected] spake thus:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:03:24 -0800, David Nebenzahl
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/27/2010 5:41 AM [email protected] spake thus:
>>>
>>>> As the nubs go into holes in the attached blade, how are they going to
>>>> "wear down", unless you mount the bald incorrectly? Do you expect a
>>>> problem with keys in keyways wearing down?
>>>
>>> Easy; since the "spindle" with the nubs is diecast,
>>
>> It's not!
>>
>>> and the blades are steel, the edge of the blades could easily wear
>>> into the fairly small nubs. In fact, I seem to remember this very
>>> problem being reported here (or was it on alt.home.repair?) for
>>> this tool.
>>>
>>> I guess if it were me designing the thing, I would have bored holes
>>> in the spindle and press-fitted steel pins there.
> >
>> Well surprise, surprise, surprise! I just got home and looked at my
>> Harbor Freight Multi-tool (to be SURE before I posted a wild guess,
>> like you did). Guess what! They used your design!!!
>>
>> The nubs are hardened steel pins set in holes in the spindle.
>
>Well, I just looked at mine and whaddya know, you're right. So I guess I
>stand (or sit in this case) corrected.
>
>And theoretically if the pins ever did wear down, they could (maybe) be
>replaced (or for that matter, just get a new "spindle" from HF).


You were wrong and I'm man enough to admit it! LOL

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:04:46 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:


>There ya go.
>
>You now have just the tool to cut through those big ironwood logs you like
>to play with all the time!
>
Funny that you mention that... I tried it on ironwood and damned if it didn't
cut it..
I've got about 40 pounds of ironwood on the lathe right now and I'm trimming as
I go.. The portable bandsaw is ok, but slow and has a restricted width of cut,
the recip saw just sits and dulls the blades and the saber saw is ok but very
slow..
The HF tool, with the straight saw blade it comes with, cuts right through it..
Only bad part is that it burns it's way through, which stinks up the house..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 18:03:44 -0800, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]>
wrote:


>Well, I just looked at mine and whaddya know, you're right. So I guess I
>stand (or sit in this case) corrected.
>
>And theoretically if the pins ever did wear down, they could (maybe) be
>replaced (or for that matter, just get a new "spindle" from HF).

That would be like taking a goldfish to the vet.. He'd just tell you to get
another one...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:20:43 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 2/26/10 8:54 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>>
>>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>>
>>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>>
>> Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35 recently)
>> has this problem. After looking at the mounting system for the cutting
>> tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on the mounting plate that
>> could easily get worn down.
>>
>
>That's the one I have. There are no nubs anywhere. There are four
>holes in the blades that do not correspond with with anything on the
>tool. The tool has tiny rings that give it some texture. When I take a
>blade off, I notice how the rings get embossed onto the blades.
>

Sounds as if you got a defective unit.

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:03:24 -0800, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2/27/2010 5:41 AM [email protected] spake thus:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:54:25 -0800, David Nebenzahl
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/26/2010 3:43 PM -MIKE- spake thus:
>>>
>>>> On 2/26/10 5:03 PM, notbob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2010-02-26, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>>>>>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>>>>> bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>>>>> only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>>>>
>>>> I've never experience them coming loose.
>>>
>>> Apparently the old "multifunction tool" (the one I got for $35
>>> recently) has this problem. After looking at the mounting system
>>> for the cutting tools, I can see why: there are 4 little nubs on
>>> the mounting plate that could easily get worn down.
>>
>> As the nubs go into holes in the attached blade, how are they going to
>> "wear down", unless you mount the bald incorrectly? Do you expect a
>> problem with keys in keyways wearing down?
>
>Easy; since the "spindle" with the nubs is diecast,

It's not!

>and the blades are
>steel, the edge of the blades could easily wear into the fairly small
>nubs. In fact, I seem to remember this very problem being reported here
>(or was it on alt.home.repair?) for this tool.
>
>I guess if it were me designing the thing, I would have bored holes in
>the spindle and press-fitted steel pins there.


Well surprise, surprise, surprise! I just got home and looked at my
Harbor Freight Multi-tool (to be SURE before I posted a wild guess,
like you did). Guess what! They used your design!!!

The nubs are hardened steel pins set in holes in the spindle.

Joe Bleau wrote:
> The HF tool is simply a copy of the Fein multimaster which IMHO should
> be designated the tool of the Century. I'm now on my second Fein and
> even after 15 years or so I never cease to discover new uses for this
> incredible tool. However, I have always been offended by the
> outrageous and unjustifiable prices of blades and other accessories.
> That is changing. Apparently their patent ran out which accounts for
> the newly appearing copies, i.e., Dremel, P-C, HF. The blades, etc.
> produced by the imitators, other than perhaps the scraper, can not
> hold a candle to the Fein accessories. The good news is that there
> are sites on the web which are now selling Fein-quality accessories
> for 70 to 80% less than the Fein originals. As for the older Fein's
> slipping. Yes, they did but I rather believe the design change was a
> step they took to discourage knockoffs as their patent was expiring.
> I'm looking forward to increased competition in the accessories since
> basically all the accessories are interchangeable with the
> Fein--though not necessarily vice versa. As much as I love this tool I
> was always galled at having to by $50.00+ for a stamped blade that
> probably cost no more than a dollar to produce.

A DOLLAR? Maybe for the diamond studded one...

I can't imagine the production costs to be greater than two-cents.

Giving Fein their due, however, they, like the pharmaceutical companies,
needed to have a tremendous mark-up to be able to fund the development of
their next-generation product.

No, wait...

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:03:09 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2010-02-26, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I've had mine for about a year and it's saved me a ton of time, but:
>> Unless you really torque it, the blades tend to vibrate loose.
>
>I thought this was THE major problem with the HF units and made them no
>bargain. Has someone figured out a solution or are they OK if used
>only in the occassional home DIY environment?
>
>nb

Its basically a non-issue. Some people are shocked that when they
don't properly tighten the arbor on a power tool it may come loose.
It's not hard to tighten it properly, unless you are quite
limp-wristed. :-)

If you are worried about it, just add a dab of locktite or something.

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:04:24 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:

>On 03/02/2010 12:44 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>> Anybody have a HF link to this incredible tool youse guys keep going on
>> about?
>
>Thanks Dawg, Lee, and J. I searched for "multi" and "multi-tool" and came up empty. I
>didn't think to search for "multi-function" or "multifunction"; you'd figure "multi" would
>find those, but I guess not...

"variable multi" just took me here:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67537

It appears that sanding is the only real use for the variable speed.
You can slow down the machine so it doesn't eat those ghastly
expensive (comparatively) tiny, triangular bits of sandpaper in 3
seconds. (It takes 10-12 seconds now, at the slowest speed. ;)

--
Pessimist: One who, when he has the choice of two evils, chooses both.
--Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)