compressed-air drills

I have built many decks with battery operated drills. Two units comes in
handy with several fast charge batteries for each.

Oh yeah! Those were the drills with the old ni-cad batteries that were 9V
units then.

Torque clutches do **NOT*** set screw depth. Torque sets the torque. When
you hit hard wood spots you will be adjusting the torque setting. When you
hit soft wood spots you will over sink them.
Just get used to the sound of the right screw depth or use a dimpler
attachment.


"Ignoramus16466" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).

I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
used)

If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
or gun shaped).

i

On May 24, 6:45=A0am, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
> Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> > SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requ=
ires a
> > new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age =
a bit,
> > or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building =
a deck,
> > I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> > recharge them.
>
> > So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. =
saw one
> > at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almo=
st
> > every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtighten=
ing, or
> > sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clu=
tch?
>
> Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air
> impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay
> for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air
> tools yet.
>
> For me the advantages are clear
>
> 1) there are no batteries that will die if not used for a months and any
> way in about 3 years.
> 2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.

Nonsense. Have you looked at a Bosch Impactor? Any smaller and it
would be useless.

> 3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.

Again, nonsense. How long is a string?

> 4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.

More crap.

> 5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast

Only because it needs it.

Wondered about the wood components in it. I have some Veranda on my
weather station. Hope it stands up to weather.

Seems to be a lot of plastic in it. Saw had long stringers on it.

They might have cut back on plastic from R&D to save money and now find
the facts.

Thanks Guys - great info.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 5/26/2010 7:00 AM, Josepi wrote:
> We have a few hundred square feet of deck to do and always figured we would
> go the Trex route.
>
> Lately I have been reading a lot of bad stuff about these brands with
> molding and rot. Apparently the answer is to use a mold prevention wash a
> few times a year on the maintenance free surface....LOL
>
>
>
> "Califbill"<[email protected]> wrote in message My 18v DeWalt drove
> all the Torx head screws in my Trex deck. Works
> fine. Unfortunately I am going to have to do it again as the Trex is
> decomposing. They replaced all the Trex in my buddies deck, but do not
> supply the screws. And I had about $230 in stainless deck screws in my
> deck.
>
>

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
> requires a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a
> bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
> deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw
> one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent
> overtightening, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a
> clutch?


Most all the air drills I have seen tend to be high RPM drills and are quite
loud. IIRC they use quite a bit of air also. You may be waiting as much
for the compressor to recharge as you would for the batteries to recharge.

I would go for a cordless impact driver, faster and more torque than a
cordless drill.

Cheaper still, a corded variable speed drill, they don't give up and have
the required torque. A clutched variety would be ideal IMHO.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:00:47 -0400, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 5/23/2010 1:24 PM, Josepi wrote:
>> Do you think the batteries will be good enough when you resurrect those old
>> drills to get those screws out again?
>
>If they aren't I'm sure that Makita will be happy to sell him a
>replacement set, or he can get the old ones rebuilt.

Driver bits are pretty standard these days. A new drill will usually work,
too. ;-)

Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:

> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air
impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay
for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air
tools yet.

For me the advantages are clear

1) there are no batteries that will die if not used for a months and any
way in about 3 years.
2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.
3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.
4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.
5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast

--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:

> On May 24, 6:45 am, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
> wrote: > Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > > SWMBO wants me to
> build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a > > new tool,
> right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit, > > or
> to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
> deck, > > I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it
> takes to > > recharge them. > > > So I'm looking at other options,
> including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one > > at the Borg this evening
> for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost > > every cordless drill
> has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or > > sinking
> screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch? > >
> Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air >
> impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay >
> for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air >
> tools yet. > > For me the advantages are clear > > 1) there are no
> batteries that will die if not used for a months and any > way in about 3
> years. > 2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.
>
> Nonsense. Have you looked at a Bosch Impactor? Any smaller and it would
> be useless.

Of course it it small however it is also low powered. Size for power air
wins every time.

>
> > 3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded driver.
>
> Again, nonsense. How long is a string?
>

nonsense? Not at all.

cables for a corded driver are almost never over 3M however since all my
air tools have a QR on the tool. Any length (in my case) up to 50M
without junctions is usable.

> > 4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.
>
> More crap.

In your opinion.

If electric impact drivers were so good then tyre shops and garages
would use them.

With sanders exactly the same is true though they need a high airflow,
so few non professional workshops have the compressor power to use them

>
> > 5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast
>
> Only because it needs it.

Which part of the word "eventually" did you miss?

by the time an air impact can use an overhaul it will have outlasted 2
or 3 equivelent electric impact drivers


-- >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me >Pics at
http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml >and
http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:

> On May 22, 11:26 pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> > SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
> > requires a new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is
> > showing its age a bit, or to be more precise, the batteries are showing
> > their age -- building a deck, I'll definitely drain the batteries in
> > much less time than it takes to recharge them.
> >
> > So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g.
> > saw one at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to
> > wondering... almost every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to
> > prevent overtightening, or sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an
> > air drill with such a clutch?
>
> We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
> seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
> use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
> cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
> are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers.

There are also air impact screwdrivers.
and there are air Clutch Screwdrivers
http://www.airtekltd.com/gison_9.htm

> I do agree that if air
> powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
> (except nailers).
>

> I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
> torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.
>
> Allen


--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml

>
> Well, you can, but a battery powered impact driver works a lot better.

Good point I missed in my previous post because I was using a drill
and driver for the the deck I just finished. You have to be careful
not to bury the screw, but my impact driver is actually easier to
control than either my corded or battery drill motors, and is less
likely to twist your wrist as you get fatigued. It runs quite a while
on a charge too. All of my cordless are 14.4V Makita's

BTW, and MOST IMPORTANT - an impact driver does qualify as a NEW TOOL.

Basic criteria of your OP

RonB

Josepi wrote:

> It definitely varies from crew to crew.
>
> Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are
> getting popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails.
> that was a mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I
> have been in, almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the
> climbing was a pain with a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall.
> For sheeting a nailer was used almost exclusively but not for
> structural lumber.
>

I have to respectfully disagree with the ease and speed of use, as well as
what I see seasoned framers actually doing. I see plenty of structural
work - perhaps even most of the structural work being done with nailers.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

In article <[email protected]>,
Ignoramus16466 <[email protected]> wrote:

> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

I'll have to be careful stepping out the garden door onto my 16 x 12
cedar deck that doesn't exist, then.

What utter nonsense...

--
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s
money.” - Margaret Thatcher

In article <[email protected]>, Gunner Asch
<[email protected]> wrote:


> I agree on all of Iggys points about tools, though some of the newest
> cordless drills come pretty close to being suitable.

I drove over 2000 screws with a cheap off-brand cordless 14.4 v drill
when I built my deck.

--
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s
money.” - Margaret Thatcher

In article <[email protected]>,
Ignoramus32683 <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 2010-05-23, RogerN <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
> > twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if it
> > was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws
> > if
> > you don't stop on time!).
>
> Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
> when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.
>
> Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
> retract my comment about cordless drills.

Batteries, like tires on a car, have to be considered as a consumable.
In some cases, the entire drill is a consumable.

Doesn't mean it won't do the job.

--
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s
money.” - Margaret Thatcher

On Sat, 22 May 2010 22:35:34 -0500, Ignoramus16466
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>> recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
>You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>
>Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).
>
>I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
>used)
>
>If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
>drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
>or gun shaped).
>
>i

I agree on all of Iggys points about tools, though some of the newest
cordless drills come pretty close to being suitable.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

Ignoramus32683 wrote:

>
> Dewalt 18XRP is the drill that I have, I love it and use it a lot. I
> have two batteries for it, but for continuous use I get out my
> electric drill.
>

For continuous work, I keep one of my batteries in the charger, while I'm
using the other one. I've never had my cordless fail me for the type of
work we've been speaking of.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:53:03 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/23/10 3:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> adding bricks to their cart, imo.
>>
>> Dragging an air hose beats swinging a hammer, though.
>
>Who swings a hammer? :-)
>A gas framing nailer is faster, lighter, and more convenient than any of
>those.

Never used one. I generally don't move much once set up, so there isn't much
dragging anyway. The big advantage of an air nailer for me is no smiles in
awkward-to-nail places. My thumbs feel better after, too. ;-)

>FWIW, last deck I did, I was much faster laying down the decking with my
>22 oz Estwing and galvanized spirals than with a drill and screws.

Sure, but I've seen even ring-shank nails pop. Stainless screws are the only
way to fly.

>I can definitely see where I could be faster with one of those screw
>self-feeders with the long extension and the depth stop driver. But I'm
>one of those "one tap to set, 2-3 swings to drive it home" hammer guys,
>so I can get a pretty fast rhythm going.

Saving time isn't high on my list. ;-) Saving aggravation later, is.

Josepi wrote:
> Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
> hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly
> while hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at
> the next piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb
> and the nials are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set
> into the wood.
>

It's a mix. The hammer still has its place but to say that most pro framers
aren't using nailers is, well... bull. You need to look more closely.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:10:14 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>It definitely varies from crew to crew.
>
>Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are getting
>popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails. that was a
>mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I have been in,
>almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the climbing was a pain with
>a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall. For sheeting a nailer was used
>almost exclusively but not for structural lumber.

Not a chance in hell that a hammer is faster. Watch them do shingles some
time. Wait, does *anyone* hammer down shingles anymore?

On May 22, 11:26=A0pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requir=
es a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a =
bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a =
deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. sa=
w one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightenin=
g, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutc=
h?

We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers. I do agree that if air
powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
(except nailers).

The question you have to ask yourself, is "Am I going to use it after
the job is done?". If you don't have much other use for it beyond the
scope of the deck, I wouldn't go that route. Then think about
compressor capacity. Is your compressor capable of the scfm needed for
the drill? Since it would be in use for longer durations, you need a
compressor that is at least a 30 gallon or higher and able to deliver
at least 8-9 scfm at 90 psi. Then if your compressor is smaller, it
constantly has to play catch up and then it is running nonstop. It
would be about the same as if you left your table saw running the
entire time you were building the deck. Not very good on the electric
bill.

I myself would go the cordless impact driver way since you said it is
about 140 square feet. You said that your drill is about 7 years old.
I would look at a drill/impact driver kit and keep your old one for
the times you could use 2 drills. I doubt that you would find an
impact driver kit that you could use the batteries on your old drill.

I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.

Allen

On May 22, 10:26=A0pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requir=
es a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a =
bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a =
deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. sa=
w one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightenin=
g, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutc=
h?

I just finished building a deck this weekend. My cordless batteries
did poop out, without available charge, a couple of times but no big
deal. However, during those periods I had to dig out my old faithful
Bosch corded drill. It did fine but awfully torquey and I had to be
careful not to bury the screws. The biggest problem was dragging that
^%&%# cord around. The cordless tools have spoiled me and dragging an
air hose around is worse. As I was completing the project, I jumped
on Amazon and ordered a couple more cordless batteries. In my
opinion, updating your cordless capability is a better solution.

BTW, I have a couple of air powered drills and both have fairly good
speed control but no clutch. They too have a lot of torque with the
trigger at full speed. Also keep in mind your compressor capacity.
Once I got underway installing screws, I had the drills running quite
a bit.

RonB

On 2010-05-26, Josepi <J.R.M> wrote:
> Some, here, report the usage of stainess steel screws not working well.
> Apparently it sounds like they are too brittle and break frequently with
> battery drills.

That doesn't sound right. SS is much more ductile than carbon steel.
Must be cheap low grade SS.

nb

On May 24, 4:22=A0am, Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 04:38:50 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >It will barely drive a #10 x 3" screw without predrilling,
>
> Predrilling

Yep. I use a lot of oak for framing temporary sheds like in the
photos. If I don't predrill the lag screws break off when I remove
them later. I salvaged the oak beams from pallets for kitchen counter
sheets and use them for rafters. The wood is almost as hard as 1980's
Chinese cast iron.

jsw

"Doug Miller" wrote:

> Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

That's one of the reasons pressure regulators exist.

Buy the time you buy a regulator, lubricator, filter package, 100 ft
of 1/2" hose and quick connect couplings, the cost of a couple of
batteries starts looking pretty good.

Lew

Ignoramus16466 wrote:
>
> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> > SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
> > new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
> > or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
> > I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> > recharge them.
> >
> > So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
> > at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> > every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
> > sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

Well, you can, but a battery powered impact driver works a lot better.

If you don't have the facts on your side, throw as much crap on the
wall as you can.

Maybe you will get lucky and get something to stick.

Lew

On 2010-05-27 07:24:18 -0400, [email protected] (Doug Miller) said:

> I've used nail guns extensively for their intended purpose: nailing
> pieces of wood together. I'll admit that I've never used one for
> launching nails into the air.

You'll never do it any younger, son.

On Mon, 24 May 2010 16:32:14 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>In article <480455e0-8484-4645-bc6e-bfc52fd4e83a@q13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On May 22, 11:26=A0pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>>> recharge them.
>>>
>>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>>
>>We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
>>seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
>>use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
>>cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
>>are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers. I do agree that if air
>>powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
>>(except nailers).
>>
>>The question you have to ask yourself, is "Am I going to use it after
>>the job is done?". If you don't have much other use for it beyond the
>>scope of the deck, I wouldn't go that route. Then think about
>>compressor capacity. Is your compressor capable of the scfm needed for
>>the drill? Since it would be in use for longer durations, you need a
>>compressor that is at least a 30 gallon or higher and able to deliver
>>at least 8-9 scfm at 90 psi. Then if your compressor is smaller, it
>>constantly has to play catch up and then it is running nonstop. It
>>would be about the same as if you left your table saw running the
>>entire time you were building the deck. Not very good on the electric
>>bill.
>>
>>I myself would go the cordless impact driver way since you said it is
>>about 140 square feet. You said that your drill is about 7 years old.
>>I would look at a drill/impact driver kit and keep your old one for
>>the times you could use 2 drills. I doubt that you would find an
>>impact driver kit that you could use the batteries on your old drill.
>>
>>I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
>>torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.
>>
>>Allen
>
>Thanks for the thoughtful response, Allen. I believe that you and a few others
>have talked me into looking at a new cordless drill instead...


Doug,
depending on location I happen to have some new in box metabo cordless
drill drivers and electric screw guns. 15.6V for 175.00 18V for200.00
and electric screw gun 125.00 plus shipping. this is about half price
for these tools. I found several at a good deal and am passing along
the savings to fellow woodworkers. They are NOT hot! leave a message
here if you are interested or e-mail me at fcpreston at nc dot rr dot
com. I do not sell tools for a living.... :-]

skeez

Given that most Auto shops use air tools, and they have torque settings on
the air wrenches, I would say that it is common, and you should look for
that feature on when looking for tools. I am sure if you checked their web
site out you would get the details on the specific tools get your answers
first hand.


"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
> requires a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a
> bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
> deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw
> one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent
> overtightening, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a
> clutch?

On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:20:54 -0500, the renowned
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:53:03 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 5/23/10 3:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> adding bricks to their cart, imo.
>>>
>>> Dragging an air hose beats swinging a hammer, though.
>>
>>Who swings a hammer? :-)
>>A gas framing nailer is faster, lighter, and more convenient than any of
>>those.
>
>Never used one. I generally don't move much once set up, so there isn't much
>dragging anyway. The big advantage of an air nailer for me is no smiles in
>awkward-to-nail places. My thumbs feel better after, too. ;-)
>
>>FWIW, last deck I did, I was much faster laying down the decking with my
>>22 oz Estwing and galvanized spirals than with a drill and screws.
>
>Sure, but I've seen even ring-shank nails pop. Stainless screws are the only
>way to fly.
>
>>I can definitely see where I could be faster with one of those screw
>>self-feeders with the long extension and the depth stop driver. But I'm
>>one of those "one tap to set, 2-3 swings to drive it home" hammer guys,
>>so I can get a pretty fast rhythm going.
>
>Saving time isn't high on my list. ;-) Saving aggravation later, is.

I see the Cadillac way of making a deck...

- Autofeed stand up Screw gun
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0012RI9Q2/sr=8-1/qid=1274654692/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=16310091&s=industrial&qid=1274654692&sr=8-1

- collated 316 (!) stainless steel deck screw$$$
http://www.stainless-fasteners.com/collated_deck_screws_strips.htm

-Bluwood (tm) treated wood
http://www.lowes.ca/products/bluwood.aspx





Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
[email protected] Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Ignoramus16466 wrote:
> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
>> requires a new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is
>> showing its age a bit, or to be more precise, the batteries are
>> showing their age -- building a deck, I'll definitely drain the
>> batteries in much less time than it takes to recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills
>> (e.g. saw one at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to
>> wondering... almost every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch
>> to prevent overtightening, or sinking screws too deep. Does anybody
>> make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

Sure you can. Why do you say that?


>
> Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).

Agreed - wrong tool for the job.


>
> I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
> used)
>
> If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
> drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
> or gun shaped).
>

VSR drill (corded) is certainly a great choice. A decent cordless with 2
batteries is another good choice.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill Noble wrote:

>
> 3. pneumatic tools don't get hot when they run, that's a real plus if
> you are using them a lot

No kidding - just hold the tool so that your hand is near the exhaust port -
a quick way to realize how cold expanding compressed air can really get...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Wed, 26 May 2010 02:20:48 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2010-05-26, Josepi <J.R.M> wrote:
>> Some, here, report the usage of stainess steel screws not working well.
>> Apparently it sounds like they are too brittle and break frequently with
>> battery drills.
>
>That doesn't sound right. SS is much more ductile than carbon steel.
>Must be cheap low grade SS.

The only problems I've had with SS is the heads stripping easily. An impact
driver should fix that problem.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 03:26:39 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>recharge them.
>
>So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?


Get a quality corded drill, maybe a Milwaulkee. You'll get more power
and control. Save the cordless for weenie projects. Take a look at
stainless square-hole screws--they cost more but will outlast the
others.

On May 23, 10:12=A0am, "WW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> ...
> I used 2 Makita battery drills. One 9.6 volt and one 12 volt. Used one fo=
r
> pilot holes and other to set screws. 700 square foot deck with railings a=
nd
> is 12 feet above ground. 3500 deck screws. 2 batteries for each drill. Th=
is
> was done 10 years ago. Did not know about stainless deck screws at that t=
ime
> ( or if they were available) Going to replace all now with SS screws as t=
he
> origanal ones have rusted. Composite deck material. Will cost about $300 =
for
> screws. WW

I was given a dead 12V Makita to fix, and agree that the two make a
decent combination like that.

So far the ceramic-coated deck screws that I've removed after a year
or two in pressure-treated wood have been in good condition. Friday I
pulled out some electro-galvanized screws and lags that had been in
dry, untreated wood for about 10 years, outdoors protected from rain.
Most were rusty but not enough to weaken them.

The stainless deck screws I bought a few years ago stripped or broke
more easily than regular steel screws.

jsw

We have a few hundred square feet of deck to do and always figured we would
go the Trex route.

Lately I have been reading a lot of bad stuff about these brands with
molding and rot. Apparently the answer is to use a mold prevention wash a
few times a year on the maintenance free surface....LOL



"Califbill" <[email protected]> wrote in message My 18v DeWalt drove
all the Torx head screws in my Trex deck. Works
fine. Unfortunately I am going to have to do it again as the Trex is
decomposing. They replaced all the Trex in my buddies deck, but do not
supply the screws. And I had about $230 in stainless deck screws in my
deck.

"Ignoramus16466" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
>> requires a
>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a
>> bit,
>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
>> deck,
>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>> recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g.
>> saw one
>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent
>> overtightening, or
>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a
>> clutch?
>
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>
> Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).
>
> I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
> used)
>
> If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
> drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
> or gun shaped).
>
> i

Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if it
was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws if
you don't stop on time!).

RogerN

Apparently you have some miscontrued notions about air powered nailguns. Did
you think a device that can fire a 3.5 inch nail with barbs through 3.5
inches of spruce or pine couldn't hurt your body or fire right through your
hand?


The three I own shoot nails farther than the eye can see in the sky. One can
only track them, depending on the sky and background, about three to four
farmers fields and then they disappear, being too small for the human eye at
about 500 metres. Yes, that is over 1/4 mile.

Perhaps you are thinking staple guns are framing nailers. Perhap you are you
just trolling or actually never used a compressed air nailgun? You know
Paslode, Hatachi, or other **FRAMING** nailgun. Newer styles are doing
multiple impacts to eliminate some of these nasties. Pretty hard to believe
you have ever used one.



"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Maybe it's lost in translation, but are you saying you were 10 feet (3m)
away and it dented a steel toed boot? I don't believe that for a second.
Did I say there were no injuries due to nail guns?
I was referring to quantity, not quality.


Again, I just want to make sure.
Is that one half a kilometer? 500 meters?
That's over 1/4 mile... 1600 feet.

If that's not a typo and you honestly are trying to tell me that you
have shot a pneumatic nail gun 500 meters, then you are..... well I
don't know what the British phrase is for "full of sh!t." I believe the
term Bullocks! comes to mind.

I honestly hope that's a typo, otherwise it pretty much discredits
everything you've written in this thread.


---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Do you think the batteries will be good enough when you resurrect those old
drills to get those screws out again?



LOL
"WW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I used 2 Makita battery drills. One 9.6 volt and one 12 volt. Used one for
pilot holes and other to set screws. 700 square foot deck with railings and
is 12 feet above ground. 3500 deck screws. 2 batteries for each drill. This
was done 10 years ago. Did not know about stainless deck screws at that time
( or if they were available) Going to replace all now with SS screws as the
origanal ones have rusted. Composite deck material. Will cost about $300 for
screws. WW

You can buy a special chuck with a release for screws, but
if it were me, I would go buy myself a impact driver. I have
a Makita and it will drive a LOT of screws completely through
a decking board.

A corded drill is still the best tool for continuous operations.

If you "really" want a clutched corded drill, these folks
sell one:

http://www.metabo.us/Product-catalog-handheld-powertools.23980+M54bda9ca94a.0.html

http://www.contractorstoolsupply.com/metabo-710-watt-twospeed-drill-model-be710-p-1907.html


Doug Miller wrote:

>
> Yeah, that's Plan B -- I have a good one already (Makita 1/2" VSR corded), but
> it doesn't have a clutch...

Some, here, report the usage of stainess steel screws not working well.
Apparently it sounds like they are too brittle and break frequently with
battery drills.

I have not experienced them. YMMV



"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Get a quality corded drill, maybe a Milwaulkee. You'll get more power
and control. Save the cordless for weenie projects. Take a look at
stainless square-hole screws--they cost more but will outlast the
others


On Sun, 23 May 2010 03:26:39 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires
>a
>new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a
>bit,
>or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
>deck,
>I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>recharge them.
>
>So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw
>one
>at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening,
>or
>sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?


.

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
> requires a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a
> bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
> deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw
> one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent
> overtightening, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a
> clutch?

I used 2 Makita battery drills. One 9.6 volt and one 12 volt. Used one for
pilot holes and other to set screws. 700 square foot deck with railings and
is 12 feet above ground. 3500 deck screws. 2 batteries for each drill. This
was done 10 years ago. Did not know about stainless deck screws at that time
( or if they were available) Going to replace all now with SS screws as the
origanal ones have rusted. Composite deck material. Will cost about $300 for
screws. WW

I was doing a section of a walkout basement wall (pony), laying on the
gravel inside of an fresh poured foundation. I raised the stud up a bit
with a spare 2x4 to nail a plate on. The gun must have caught the bottom
edge of the plate and enabled firing the nail. When I pulled the trigger my
partner, holding the other ned plate on a 10' ceiling wall, jumped and
screamed and was shot in the foot. I thought it was a joke but on removal of
the safety-toed workboot, was a bruise just above the toe cap and a bent
down toe cap, This nail went between both plates and the gravel they were
sitting, almost ten feet and damaged the boot at the other end.

A busted thumb is nothing compared to the nail I have seen stuck in a
person's breastbones and one through a guy's hand..yummm...LOL

I have shot things with them over half a km away. They definitely pack some
power.

Anyway...our inspectors won't even enter a site until all nailguns are put
down on the floor. Of coure the Electrical Inspector won't climb a ladder
one step either.


"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I guess I can't say what goes on in the UK, but if there were stats on
tool injuries, I'm guessing there would be more broken thumbs from
hammers than busted kneecaps from air nailers misfiring.
--
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)

"Ignoramus32683" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-05-23, RogerN <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
>> twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if
>> it
>> was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws
>> if
>> you don't stop on time!).
>
> Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
> when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.
>
> Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
> retract my comment about cordless drills.
>
> i

OK, that makes sense, maybe that's why I bought 2 drills, 6 batteries and 4
chargers. :-) Too bad my energy level doesn't keep up!

Actually I saw DeWalt had a lot of cordless tools available for their 18V
XPR and I bought various sets to have all my cordless tools battery and
charger compatible, the 2nd xrp drill came in a kit with 2 batteries, a
charger, and an impact driver.

RogerN

Not many frame with shingles.

Shingle warranties are usually voided with use of power nailers. Most
roofers here, use them anyway.


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Not a chance in hell that a hammer is faster. Watch them do shingles some
time. Wait, does *anyone* hammer down shingles anymore?



On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:10:14 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>It definitely varies from crew to crew.
>
>Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are getting
>popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails. that was a
>mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I have been in,
>almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the climbing was a pain
>with
>a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall. For sheeting a nailer was used
>almost exclusively but not for structural lumber.

On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).

I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
used)

If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
or gun shaped).

i

Air pressure regulation will still give you high speed but low torque
capabilities. This will tend to make deck screwing uncontrollable and you
will need to follow up the heads with a battry drill afterwards (tripping on
a few) to set the head depths.


"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
That's one of the reasons pressure regulators exist.

Buy the time you buy a regulator, lubricator, filter package, 100 ft
of 1/2" hose and quick connect couplings, the cost of a couple of
batteries starts looking pretty good.

Lew


"Doug Miller" wrote:

> Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?

Doug Miller wrote:
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
> requires a new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is
> showing its age a bit, or to be more precise, the batteries are
> showing their age -- building a deck, I'll definitely drain the
> batteries in much less time than it takes to recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills
> (e.g. saw one at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to
> wondering... almost every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch
> to prevent overtightening, or sinking screws too deep. Does anybody
> make an air drill with such a clutch?

Go to HF and buy two of the 18v battery drills . Batteries cost almost as
much as the drill so ... that'll give you more battery capacity , might be
able to eke thru with those and what you already have .

--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF

On 5/23/2010 9:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 23 May 2010 18:28:16 -0500, Ignoramus32683
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-05-23, RogerN<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ignoramus32683"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On 2010-05-23, RogerN<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
>>>>> twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if
>>>>> it
>>>>> was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws
>>>>> if
>>>>> you don't stop on time!).
>>>>
>>>> Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
>>>> when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
>>>> retract my comment about cordless drills.
>>>>
>>>> i
>>>
>>> OK, that makes sense, maybe that's why I bought 2 drills, 6 batteries and 4
>>> chargers. :-) Too bad my energy level doesn't keep up!
>>>
>>> Actually I saw DeWalt had a lot of cordless tools available for their 18V
>>> XPR and I bought various sets to have all my cordless tools battery and
>>> charger compatible, the 2nd xrp drill came in a kit with 2 batteries, a
>>> charger, and an impact driver.
>>
>> Dewalt 18XRP is the drill that I have, I love it and use it a lot. I
>> have two batteries for it, but for continuous use I get out my electric
>> drill.
>
> I have two 18V XRP drills, one a "compact" model (which isn't compact). I
> found one for less than $100 (less than the price of two batteries) on the
> get-it-outta-here table at HomeDespot. I also have the 6-1/2" circular saw,
> so six batteries. I don't use the drills often, though. I would much rather
> use the 12V Bosch and the Impactor. I'd break them out if I built a deck,
> though. ;-)
>
And the DeWalt battery skilsaw is fantastic when doing the deck. At
least on Trex. No cord to pull around when you need a little trimming.
I used the gear drive Skilsaw for major cutting, but if you needed to
square an end, reach for the battery saw.

On 5/22/2010 8:35 PM, Ignoramus16466 wrote:
> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller<[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>> recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>
> Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).
>
> I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
> used)
>
> If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
> drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
> or gun shaped).
>
> i
My 18v DeWalt drove all the Torx head screws in my Trex deck. Works
fine. Unfortunately I am going to have to do it again as the Trex is
decomposing. They replaced all the Trex in my buddies deck, but do not
supply the screws. And I had about $230 in stainless deck screws in my
deck.

Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly while
hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at the next
piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb and the nials
are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set into the wood.


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Sun, 23 May 2010 11:52:32 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/23/10 11:44 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> Ignoramus16466<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>>
>> I'll have to be careful stepping out the garden door onto my 16 x 12
>> cedar deck that doesn't exist, then.
>>
>> What utter nonsense...
>>
>
>Yeah, I think someone hasn't kept up with technology. :-)

For 15 years?

>I have cheap (what I consider to be disposable) B&D 18volters that would
>do the job just fine. Like another guys posted, all you need is 3
>batteries per drill, which is the minimum for me, anyway.
>
>I never go to a site without a corded electric, as a back-up, but that
>cord is a PITA. And whoever wants to trade an AC cord for an air hose is
>adding bricks to their cart, imo.

Dragging an air hose beats swinging a hammer, though.

Here is the perfect tool for what you are doing. I have used these for 22
years in
carpentry and cabinetmaking:
http://www.cpopowertools.com/products/dw268.html?ref=googaw&kw={keyword}&gcl
id=COC8reW856ECFWI65wodJ0XQIw&keyword=dewaltdw268&sissr=1

woodstuff

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
requires a
| new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a
bit,
| or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
deck,
| I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
| recharge them.
|
| So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw
one
| at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
| every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent
overtightening, or
| sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a
clutch?

On Mon, 24 May 2010 08:17:53 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Not many frame with shingles.

Yeah, itches too much.

>Shingle warranties are usually voided with use of power nailers. Most
>roofers here, use them anyway.

Shingle warranties are useless anyway.

My response to that is in many cases the batteries last longer than the
human.

For indoor flooring double-upping a screw gun made for the job while
standing up is in order. I have done rooms with battery drills and it's
rough on the back, knees and wrists. Due the the inaccuracy of screw
placement the above device is typically not usable.

Use the excuse to get a second battery drill, use both (four batteries) and
wear the old one out. It may be good for the old ni-cad to get a good
cycling too.


"Ignoramus32683" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.

Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
retract my comment about cordless drills.

i


On 2010-05-23, RogerN <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
> twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if it
> was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws
> if
> you don't stop on time!).

On May 26, 12:27=A0am, Califbill <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 5/23/2010 9:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 23 May 2010 18:28:16 -0500, Ignoramus32683
> > <[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> On 2010-05-23, RogerN<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >>> "Ignoramus32683"<[email protected]> =A0wrote in mes=
sage
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>> On 2010-05-23, RogerN<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >>>>> Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered dri=
ll? =A0I
> >>>>> twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remembe=
r if
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking =
screws
> >>>>> if
> >>>>> you don't stop on time!).
>
> >>>> Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
> >>>> when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.
>
> >>>> Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
> >>>> retract my comment about cordless drills.
>
> >>>> i
>
> >>> OK, that makes sense, maybe that's why I bought 2 drills, 6 batteries=
and 4
> >>> chargers. =A0:-) =A0Too bad my energy level doesn't keep up!
>
> >>> Actually I saw DeWalt had a lot of cordless tools available for their=
18V
> >>> XPR and I bought various sets to have all my cordless tools battery a=
nd
> >>> charger compatible, the 2nd xrp drill came in a kit with 2 batteries,=
a
> >>> charger, and an impact driver.
>
> >> Dewalt 18XRP is the drill that I have, I love it and use it a lot. I
> >> have two batteries for it, but for continuous use I get out my electri=
c
> >> drill.
>
> > I have two 18V XRP drills, one a "compact" model (which isn't compact).=
=A0I
> > found one for less than $100 (less than the price of two batteries) on =
the
> > get-it-outta-here table at HomeDespot. =A0I also have the 6-1/2" circul=
ar saw,
> > so six batteries. =A0I don't use the drills often, though. =A0I would m=
uch rather
> > use the 12V Bosch and the Impactor. =A0I'd break them out if I built a =
deck,
> > though. =A0;-)
>
> And the DeWalt battery skilsaw is fantastic when doing the deck. =A0At
> least on Trex. =A0No cord to pull around when you need a little trimming.
> =A0 I used the gear drive Skilsaw for major cutting, but if you needed to
> square an end, reach for the battery saw.

Yeah, the 18V Dewalt circular saw is really handy. Unlike the Makita
9.6V it's useful on far more than clapboards. For heavier work I have
the Dewalt rear swivel circular saw. The rear swivel makes depth and
angle adjustment a snap.

On May 24, 12:48=A0pm, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On May 24, 6:45 am, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
> > wrote: > Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > > SWMBO wants me to
> > build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a > > new too=
l,
> > right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit, > >=
or
> > to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
> > deck, > > I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it
> > takes to > > recharge them. > > > So I'm looking at other options,
> > including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one > > at the Borg this even=
ing
> > for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost > > every cordless dri=
ll
> > has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or > > sinking
> > screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch? > >
> > Despite what others have been saying I have recently bought an air >
> > impact driver. Of course as with any tool you get the quality you pay >
> > for. Although as far as I know there are few really cheep quality air >
> > tools yet. > > For me the advantages are clear > > 1) there are no
> > batteries that will die if not used for a months and any > way in about=
3
> > years. > 2) Smaller than any battery impact driver.
>
> > Nonsense. =A0Have you looked at a Bosch Impactor? =A0Any smaller and it=
would
> > be useless.
>
> Of course it it small however it is also low powered. Size for power air
> wins every time.
>
>
>
> > > 3) The air hose is far more flexible and longer than any corded drive=
r.
>
> > Again, nonsense. =A0How long is a string?
>
> nonsense? Not at all.

Absolute nonsense.

> cables for a corded driver are almost never over 3M however since all my
> air tools have a QR on the tool. Any length (in my case) up to 50M
> without junctions is usable.

More flexible? What drugs are you on? Yes the corded screwdrive is
6' or so, but the cord on an air screwdriver is zero length. You have
to use an extension to use the bloody thing at all!

> > > 4) The service life is much longer than any electric powered drill.
>
> > More crap.
>
> In your opinion.

I bet several here have drills that are fifty years old. Got an air
nailer that's 50?

> If electric impact drivers were so good then tyre shops and garages
> would use them.

Idiot. This is rec.woodworking.

> With sanders exactly the same is true though they need a high airflow,
> so few non professional workshops have the compressor power to use them
>
>
>
> > > 5) Over haul when eventually needed is it is easy and fast
>
> > Only because it needs it.
>
> Which part of the word "eventually" did you miss?

Eventually it will need it. What is so hard about that to understand?

> by the time an air impact can use an overhaul it will have outlasted 2
> or 3 equivelent electric impact drivers

Nonsense.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 19:12:12 -0400, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Maybe the USanians have standardized on Roberts head sizes, since the patent
>timed out?...LOL

I'm certainly not a pro, but I use Phillips, Robertson, and TORX/Star screws,
in about the same numbers (prefer TORX, if I can find them). Bits for all of
them are pretty common, even in the junk stores.

>I don't think the old screws are going to like the chamge of technique
>though.

You don't change the technique, you change the DIRECTION. ;-)

Can you show us where you read I could see a nail at 500 metres?

To tell the trajectory of an object only the initial flight needs to be
observed. Any person, with half a brain, can tell where and how far it will
travel based on normal acceleration and deceleration curves in air.
Resolving power is not the only factor in site. Research some more.

In view of the demonstrated lack of credibility I would have to conclude you
and the other trolls have never used a nail gun at all.



"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
For part of the trajectory, sure -- a .22 bullet should be visible out to
about 55 yards. But not all of it, unless that trajectory was fairly short,
and Josepi's claim to be able to see a 3mm thick nail at 500 meters is at
best
wishful thinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_acuity#Physiology_of_visual_acuity

Regardless of how young your eyes are, there's still a lower limit to their
resolving power: the size of a single cone in the retina, which corresponds
to
about 0.4 minutes of arc. That means it's simply impossible to see, for
example, a .22 bullet at 200 yards, or a nail at 500 meters.

It definitely varies from crew to crew.

Many of the newbies are given nailers and the cordless ones are getting
popular. I framed my house with a nailer and barbed nails. that was a
mistake when changes need to be made though. Other jobs I have been in,
almost all the seasoned framers used hammers as the climbing was a pain with
a nailer and the hammer was faster, overall. For sheeting a nailer was used
almost exclusively but not for structural lumber.



"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
It's a mix. The hammer still has its place but to say that most pro framers
aren't using nailers is, well... bull. You need to look more closely.



Josepi wrote:
> Most pro framers, I have seen do not use compressed air, they swing a
> hammer. Try carrying a nailgun up into a framed roof rafter assembly
> while hanging on to the last truss member you hammered in to get at
> the next piece. A hammer and puch full of nails makes an easier climb
> and the nials are removable for a few eeks until they rust or set
> into the wood.
>

On Sun, 23 May 2010 10:47:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Gunner Asch
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> I agree on all of Iggys points about tools, though some of the newest
>> cordless drills come pretty close to being suitable.
>
>I drove over 2000 screws with a cheap off-brand cordless 14.4 v drill
>when I built my deck.


Good on you lad!

I managed to drive 10 with a brand new one 4 weeks ago.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sun, 23 May 2010 22:04:10 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/23/10 5:20 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Sure, but I've seen even ring-shank nails pop. Stainless screws are the only
>> way to fly.
>>
>
>Not arguing here, but in my experience nails popping out is generally
>due to under-engineering in the manners of: movement caused by too much
>space between joists, and nails too short.

Maybe, but mine were 16" OC. The nails? For me, screws are easier in the long
run.

>I know there are other causes, but I've seen nails pop due to those
>causes.

Screws don't wreck the wood coming out, either.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 11:52:32 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/23/10 11:44 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article<[email protected]>,
>> Ignoramus16466<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>>
>> I'll have to be careful stepping out the garden door onto my 16 x 12
>> cedar deck that doesn't exist, then.
>>
>> What utter nonsense...
>>
>
>Yeah, I think someone hasn't kept up with technology. :-)

For 15 years?

>I have cheap (what I consider to be disposable) B&D 18volters that would
>do the job just fine. Like another guys posted, all you need is 3
>batteries per drill, which is the minimum for me, anyway.
>
>I never go to a site without a corded electric, as a back-up, but that
>cord is a PITA. And whoever wants to trade an AC cord for an air hose is
>adding bricks to their cart, imo.

Dragging an air hose beats swinging a hammer, though.

On May 22, 11:35=A0pm, Ignoramus16466 <ignoramus16...@NOSPAM.
16466.invalid> wrote:
> ...
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
...
> i

I built these with an old 9.6V Makita:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/Firewood#5287788504883032706

It will barely drive a #10 x 3" screw without predrilling, but it
drills up to 3/8" holes in dry oak nicely, for the lag screws or
Timberlocks. I needed a corded Milwaukee only for the 1/2" lags that
fasten the cross beams onto the oak log posts.

Last year I helped a contractor with a volunteer deck project. He used
an 18V DeWalt to drive the Timberlocks.

jsw

Josepi wrote:
> Apparently you have some miscontrued notions about air powered
> nailguns. Did you think a device that can fire a 3.5 inch nail with
> barbs through 3.5 inches of spruce or pine couldn't hurt your body or
> fire right through your hand?
>
>
> The three I own shoot nails farther than the eye can see in the sky.
> One can only track them, depending on the sky and background, about
> three to four farmers fields and then they disappear, being too small
> for the human eye at about 500 metres. Yes, that is over 1/4 mile.
>

Well, I'll say this for your eyesight - if you can see or track a 3.5" nail
at nearly 500 meters with the naked eye, you've got some fabulous vision
there. Not to mention quite an air nailer.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

As I stated this varies from crew to crew. Sheeting, follow up, is
typically, always done, with nailguns by the junior apprentice.

Some crews, here, will not allow powered nailguns on the job due to safety
concerns.

No Building Code or Electrical Inspectors, here, will will enter the
buiding if one is in operation. There are many reasons.

I have used both. Guns are faster for me but then I can't drive a 3.1/2"
ardox nail in with one crack like the framers I know...LOL


"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I'm sorry, but there's no way on earth a hammer is faster than a nail gun.
I've used both, I'm good at both. Not buying it.


--

-MIKE-

On Sat, 22 May 2010 22:35:34 -0500, Ignoramus16466
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>> recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
>You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

Why? I've done it (well, I used a hammer too). A decent cordless drill will
easily sink any screw you're likely to use in a deck. An Impactor will do it
without stripping the heads. ;-) An extra set of batteries makes things
easier, but I did it with two sets of two, with my older 9.6V Makita as the
drill and a 14.4V PC to sink the screws.

>Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).
>
>I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
>used)
>
>If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
>drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
>or gun shaped).

Pete C. wrote:
> Ignoramus16466 wrote:
>>
>> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
>>> requires a new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is
>>> showing its age a bit, or to be more precise, the batteries are
>>> showing their age -- building a deck, I'll definitely drain the
>>> batteries in much less time than it takes to recharge them.
>>>
>>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills
>>> (e.g. saw one at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to
>>> wondering... almost every cordless drill has a multi-position
>>> clutch to prevent overtightening, or sinking screws too deep. Does
>>> anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>>
>> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>
> Well, you can, but a battery powered impact driver works a lot better.

Agreed. Air tools have their place but building a deck is not necessarily
one of them. I wouldn't use my air drill to build a deck.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On May 22, 9:26=A0pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requir=
es a
> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a =
bit,
> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a =
deck,
> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> recharge them.
>
> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. sa=
w one
> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightenin=
g, or
> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutc=
h?

For that you'd need a pneumatic screw driver, not a drill. Used in
production, mostly. Probably not going to find one on the peg at HF.
I have seen hex chucks with clutches for driving screws using a drill,
might be one of those would do you. One of my favorite pneumatic
drills would probably work pretty well with such a rig, it's a right
angle jobbie and a whole lot smaller than any battery drill. Geared
down, so should have enough torque. If you go that route, get one of
the throttle swivels, good as a variable speed trigger. One of my
favorite tools for working around gas tanks, no sparks.

Stan

On Sun, 23 May 2010 10:47:22 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Gunner Asch
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> I agree on all of Iggys points about tools, though some of the newest
>> cordless drills come pretty close to being suitable.
>
>I drove over 2000 screws with a cheap off-brand cordless 14.4 v drill
>when I built my deck.

I drove 700 or so in the deck then another 2000 in the floor of my house, with
my 14.4V PC. I did have one of the packs rebuilt ($35) after the 2000.

Had the second lock out disabled ? - Typical production trick.

Mine has to pull the trigger and that is an AND push the nose in.

One or the other won't fire. Those in a hurry disable the double
and have it nose only. Pull trigger and dance the gun. But dancing
is dangerous as you pointed out.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 5/24/2010 8:42 PM, Josepi wrote:
> I was doing a section of a walkout basement wall (pony), laying on the
> gravel inside of an fresh poured foundation. I raised the stud up a bit
> with a spare 2x4 to nail a plate on. The gun must have caught the bottom
> edge of the plate and enabled firing the nail. When I pulled the trigger my
> partner, holding the other ned plate on a 10' ceiling wall, jumped and
> screamed and was shot in the foot. I thought it was a joke but on removal of
> the safety-toed workboot, was a bruise just above the toe cap and a bent
> down toe cap, This nail went between both plates and the gravel they were
> sitting, almost ten feet and damaged the boot at the other end.
>
> A busted thumb is nothing compared to the nail I have seen stuck in a
> person's breastbones and one through a guy's hand..yummm...LOL
>
> I have shot things with them over half a km away. They definitely pack some
> power.
>
> Anyway...our inspectors won't even enter a site until all nailguns are put
> down on the floor. Of coure the Electrical Inspector won't climb a ladder
> one step either.
>
>
> "-MIKE-"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> I guess I can't say what goes on in the UK, but if there were stats on
> tool injuries, I'm guessing there would be more broken thumbs from
> hammers than busted kneecaps from air nailers misfiring.
> --
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
>
>
>

On Mon, 24 May 2010 14:34:43 -0400, skeez <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Mon, 24 May 2010 16:32:14 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <480455e0-8484-4645-bc6e-bfc52fd4e83a@q13g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On May 22, 11:26=A0pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>>>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>>>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>>>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>>>> recharge them.
>>>>
>>>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>>>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>>>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>>>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>>>
>>>We are getting away from what the original question is. I have not
>>>seen an air drill with a clutch only because they wouldn't be of much
>>>use. Air tools are specific in use not like electric which tries to
>>>cover many uses. So hence why they don't have a clutch because there
>>>are air impact drivers and air screwdrivers. I do agree that if air
>>>powered was better that you would see many more contractors using them
>>>(except nailers).
>>>
>>>The question you have to ask yourself, is "Am I going to use it after
>>>the job is done?". If you don't have much other use for it beyond the
>>>scope of the deck, I wouldn't go that route. Then think about
>>>compressor capacity. Is your compressor capable of the scfm needed for
>>>the drill? Since it would be in use for longer durations, you need a
>>>compressor that is at least a 30 gallon or higher and able to deliver
>>>at least 8-9 scfm at 90 psi. Then if your compressor is smaller, it
>>>constantly has to play catch up and then it is running nonstop. It
>>>would be about the same as if you left your table saw running the
>>>entire time you were building the deck. Not very good on the electric
>>>bill.
>>>
>>>I myself would go the cordless impact driver way since you said it is
>>>about 140 square feet. You said that your drill is about 7 years old.
>>>I would look at a drill/impact driver kit and keep your old one for
>>>the times you could use 2 drills. I doubt that you would find an
>>>impact driver kit that you could use the batteries on your old drill.
>>>
>>>I have an air drill, It is nice for drilling wood because of the low
>>>torque and high rpm, but I would not try to drive screws with it.
>>>
>>>Allen
>>
>>Thanks for the thoughtful response, Allen. I believe that you and a few others
>>have talked me into looking at a new cordless drill instead...
>
>
>Doug,
>depending on location I happen to have some new in box metabo cordless
>drill drivers and electric screw guns. 15.6V for 175.00 18V for200.00
>and electric screw gun 125.00 plus shipping. this is about half price
>for these tools. I found several at a good deal and am passing along
>the savings to fellow woodworkers. They are NOT hot! leave a message
>here if you are interested or e-mail me at fcpreston at nc dot rr dot
>com. I do not sell tools for a living.... :-]
>
>skeez

PS I can e-mail pics and specs. just ask.

skeez

On Mon, 24 May 2010 21:06:36 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/24/10 9:04 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
>>
>> What the heck do you know about rhythm? :-)
>>
>
>Down beat and back beat.... that's about it. :-)

That's the sound of the men working on the chain ga-a-ang
That's the sound of the men working on the chain_gang

All day long they're singin'
(Hooh! aah!) (hooh! aah!)
(Hooh! aah!) (hooh! aah!)

On 2010-05-23, RogerN <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just curious, why can't you build a deck with a battery powered drill? I
> twisted lag bolts in two with my Dewalt 18V XRP but I can't remember if it
> was with the drill or the impact (the impact is bad about breaking screws if
> you don't stop on time!).

Roger, my answer to you (and others) was that batteries do not last
when the job is to just drive a screw after screw.

Apparently, others' experience may be different, and, if so, I will
retract my comment about cordless drills.

i

When your eye is lined up with the trajectory a small object can be tracked
for a long distance. The actual full trajectory path is not required to be
seen for an intelligent person to know where it will go or land. Now that is
a long bullet which uses a lot more powder than a short Hilti gun cap

It's just a trolling argument anyway. Most that have used an air nailer
could think this simple logic out after using one for a few days. If it
wasn't for the poor accuracy a nailgun would work much better than any
pellet gun I have ever seen...yeah you can see pellets for a few hundred
feet too and they are even smaller. We never tried to aim a nailgun, in the
air. We were just worried about farm house windows within the nearest mile
after seeing it the first time...LOL


As an aside: We used to stand behind a corner of a brick wall (too elininate
accidental shootings) and somebody would shot a .22 calibre rifle within
inches past our ears! What a sound !...LOL

Here's one the gun backfired
http://www.breakmobile.com/index/actual-x-ray-of-nail-gun-accident68394.html



"Joseph Gwinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:joegwinn-Well,
I've never used a nailgun of any kind, but I can tell you about 22 caliber
rifles.

When I was a teenager firing a 22 long rifle bullet over a lake, I could
easily
see the bullet in flight for most of its trajectory. Now this required the
sightline to be close and parallel to the trajectory (so the image didn't
move
too fast to be seen) and a distant background (so there wasn't too much
visual
clutter). And young eyes, of course.

One could not resolve the bullet - it was seen as a fast-moving and
indistinct
black spot.

Joe Gwinn

In article <[email protected]>, Ignoramus16466 <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
>You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.

It's a small deck, only about 140 square feet.
>
>Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).

Thanks, that's useful to know.
>
>I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
>used)
>
>If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
>drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
>or gun shaped).

Yeah, that's Plan B -- I have a good one already (Makita 1/2" VSR corded), but
it doesn't have a clutch...

In article <[email protected]>, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" wrote:
>
>> Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
>That's one of the reasons pressure regulators exist.
>
>Buy the time you buy a regulator, lubricator, filter package, 100 ft
>of 1/2" hose and quick connect couplings, the cost of a couple of
>batteries starts looking pretty good.

Have all of that already...

"Ignoramus16466" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> > SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
> > new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
> > or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
> > I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
> > recharge them.
> >
> > So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
> > at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
> > every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
> > sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>

The 700 sq-ft deck that I couldn't build with a cordless drill* is still looking
just fine after 9 years now.
Art
* 14.4V PC

"Ignoramus16466" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project
>> requires a
>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a
>> bit,
>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a
>> deck,
>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>> recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g.
>> saw one
>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent
>> overtightening, or
>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a
>> clutch?
>
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>
> Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).
>
> I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
> used)
>
> If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
> drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
> or gun shaped).
>
> i

1. - nonsense RE torque of pneumatic drills - there are more than one type,
some are geared, some are not - the high speed ones don't have a lot of
torque (and at 30,000 RPM, aren't too good as screwdrivers either), but the
ones that are suitably geared down have plenty of torque for drilling in any
wood I've encountered..

2. with a simple T, you can have a pneumatic drill and a pneumatic
screwdriver

3. pneumatic tools don't get hot when they run, that's a real plus if you
are using them a lot

Iggy,
I have at least 8 maybe more air drills and at least that many air screw drivers. Most I have bought surplus from Reliable tools
on eBay. It is very necessary to use the air drill that is correct for the job. There are vast speed differences between them,
some of which have wrist breaking torque. The biggest risk is to use a drill that is too fast for the job and burning up the bit.
In wood, this is not a concern. I really like the air drivers much better than electric.
Steve

"Ignoramus16466" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On 2010-05-23, Doug Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> SWMBO wants me to build a small deck. Of course, every new project requires a
>> new tool, right? And my trusty Bosch cordless drill is showing its age a bit,
>> or to be more precise, the batteries are showing their age -- building a deck,
>> I'll definitely drain the batteries in much less time than it takes to
>> recharge them.
>>
>> So I'm looking at other options, including compressed air drills (e.g. saw one
>> at the Borg this evening for $45 or so). But I got to wondering... almost
>> every cordless drill has a multi-position clutch to prevent overtightening, or
>> sinking screws too deep. Does anybody make an air drill with such a clutch?
>
> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>
> Air drills do not have the torque. (in my experience).
>
> I do have some compressed air screwdrivers, however. (all name brands,
> used)
>
> If it was up to me, I would use a decent variable speed electric
> drill, but I would love to sell you a pneumatic screwdriver (straight
> or gun shaped).
>
> i

Ideally, with cordless. You can have two chargers, and two batteries
on charge, while you are using the third. It does take a couple
seconds to change batteries, but two on charge (at the edge of the
deck) helps out.

I remember from some where, that some deck screws have a narrow neck
below the heads, and tend to break off easily.

Compressed air drill is worse option than corded drill. The air hose
is more clumsy than a power cord, and the compressor is noisy.
Changing energy from electric, to air, to motion, is more lost power.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:49165188-0fd1-479a-ba51-65696247143f@o39g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...

careful not to bury the screws. The biggest problem was dragging that
^%&%# cord around. The cordless tools have spoiled me and dragging an
air hose around is worse. As I was completing the project, I jumped
on Amazon and ordered a couple more cordless batteries. In my
opinion, updating your cordless capability is a better solution.

RonB

If you're going to be driving several hundered or a thousand deck screws,
IMHO a goo quality corded screwgun would be the tool of choice.


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 5/23/10 11:44 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> Ignoramus16466<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You cannot build a deck with a battery powered drill.
>
> I'll have to be careful stepping out the garden door onto my 16 x 12
> cedar deck that doesn't exist, then.
>
> What utter nonsense...
>

Yeah, I think someone hasn't kept up with technology. :-)

I have cheap (what I consider to be disposable) B&D 18volters that would
do the job just fine. Like another guys posted, all you need is 3
batteries per drill, which is the minimum for me, anyway.

I never go to a site without a corded electric, as a back-up, but that
cord is a PITA. And whoever wants to trade an AC cord for an air hose is
adding bricks to their cart, imo.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply