With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good block
plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie Nelson is
probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the Stanleys in the
same general class as the Veritas planes.
I'm not going to be doing much fine cabinet work, but have occasional need
to trim pine, oak & walnut to get a good fit. That & the occasional sticky
door.
In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
low angle?
Thoughts, comments?
Thanks!
Doug White
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
wrote:
[...snip...]
>In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
>adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
>grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
>low angle?
>
>Thoughts, comments?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Doug White
Much more important than which brand the block plane is, can you
sharpen it properly? Assuming you can, you can get some useful results
from a Stanley.
Having said that, the Veritas will serve you even better. It is
manufactured to much tighter tolerances and the blade is heavier,
which helps eliminate chatter.
A Low Angle plane can be used on end grain. But it will be more prone
to tearout on figured wood. It sounds as if that won't be much of an
issue for you. I have the LV low angle block and it isn't usually a
problem, especially with a sharp blade and a tight mouth (setting the
adjustable throat to pass a fine shaving).
Another possible way to deal with this: purchase an extra blade and
grind and hone the bevel to a higher angle and swap the blade out as
needed. You can just hone the secondary bevel at the higher angle.
On Sun, 7 Nov 2010 14:28:25 -0800 (PST), Father Haskell
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Nov 6, 3:02 pm, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>> Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> writes:
>> >On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 +0000, Doug White wrote:
>>
>> >> With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good
>> >> block plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie
>> >> Nelson is probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the
>> >> Stanleys in the same general class as the Veritas planes.
>>
>> >Your best bet for the money is an *old* Stanley. All the info you need
>> >on the 9 1/2 and the 60 or 60 1/2 can be found at:
>>
>> >http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
>>
>> If you're gonna get an old stanley, look for the #18.
>>
>> scott
>
>Knuckle joint plane, one of the coolest looking ones.
>The 18 I bought at a flea market in 1978 for $3.00 has
>seen me through nearly every project since.
I picked up a #65-1/2 (complete with a Hock blade) about a decade and
a half ago, and it has served me well. I have to sharpen the darned
blade frequently, though. (Every two or three years.)
--
Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling.
-- Margaret Lee Runbeck
Doug White <[email protected]> wrote:
> With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good block
> plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie Nelson is
> probably too pricey.
Veritas and Lie-Nielson are both good. The difference in price,
in my opinion, isn't that significant. The main difference between
the two is that Veritas takes a modern approach to design and
features, while Lie-Nielsen improves on the traditional designs
with better metals and thicker blades. Both products are pretty
much ready to work out of the box. Veritas however is typically a
bit better here as their blades are usually dead-flat and only
require a bit of honing.
> None of the reviews I've read put the Stanleys in the
> same general class as the Veritas planes.
I don't know about the new "Sweatheart" planes, but Stanley's other
"new" stock would not be in the same class as either Veritas or
Lie-Nielsen. However I have found Stanley's 9-1/2 (12-920) and
60-1/2 (12-960) block planes to be fairly decent--after a bit of
fettling.
> I'm not going to be doing much fine cabinet work, but have occasional
> need to trim pine, oak & walnut to get a good fit. That & the
> occasional sticky door.
Given the woods you intend to work with, which are typically fairly
well behaved, you could get by with a 12-960 or 12-920 from Stanley.
But of course the Veritas or Lie-Nielsen will be better, and not
require any fettling.
> In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal,
> and adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded
> for end grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a
> downside to the low angle?
Low angle is best for end grain and can be used on well behaved
straight grained woods. On difficult grained woods, the low angle
will just cause tear out. An advantage of the low-angle plane is
that if you buy another blade to fit it, you can grind that to a
steaper angle and then swap blades around. Use the low angle blade
for end grain and well behaved woods, and the higher angle for more
difficult grain. If you find you use your planes a lot, having to
swap blades around can be a time consuming task. In which case,
it easier to just have both a low angle and a regular angle block
plane.
As for the adjustable throat, it is an advantage over a fixed throat
and can help with tear out sometimes. If you're going to only have
one block plane, get one with an adjustable throat.
On Nov 3, 7:11=A0pm, Doug White <[email protected]> wrote:
> With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good blo=
ck
> plane. =A0I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie Nelson is
> probably too pricey. =A0None of the reviews I've read put the Stanleys in=
the
> same general class as the Veritas planes.
>
> I'm not going to be doing much fine cabinet work, but have occasional nee=
d
> to trim pine, oak & walnut to get a good fit. =A0That & the occasional st=
icky
> door. =A0
>
> In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
> adjustable throats? =A0The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for en=
d
> grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. =A0Is there a downside to t=
he
> low angle?
>
> Thoughts, comments?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Doug White
Old Stanleys are good users, and cheap. The adjustable toe
prevents tearout by letting you set the mouth just wide enough
to feed a shaving through, breaking it as soon as it's cut. It
works better than the "chip breaker" caps used on bench
planes.
Expensive LN and Veritas planes are for expensive work.
Shame to ruin them on the edge of a painted door slab.
A #220 is good, a less than pristine #5 is better.
Angle of the frog is less important than sharpness of
the blade.
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]>
wrote:
>With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good block
>plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie Nelson is
>probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the Stanleys in the
>same general class as the Veritas planes.
>
>I'm not going to be doing much fine cabinet work, but have occasional need
>to trim pine, oak & walnut to get a good fit. That & the occasional sticky
>door.
>
>In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
>adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
>grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
>low angle?
>
>Thoughts, comments?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Doug White
This might help as well:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/fa2c67adc100c811/a10c71962b99ba14?lnk=gst&q=veritas#a10c71962b99ba14
"Doug White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
> adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
> grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
> low angle?
The only downside I can think of is that planing might take a few more
strokes when you have a considerable amount of wood to remove. I bought the
Veritas 05P2501 low angle smoothing plane with 05P3001 jointer fence and
05P2502 A2 blade October of 2009. It has worked like a champ for almost all
of my planing needs. I highly recommend it. In fact I was so impressed with
the smoothing plane that about two months later, I went out and bought the
05P5120 plow plane with five blades as a Christmas present for myself.
"Doug White" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good
> block
> plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie Nelson is
> probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the Stanleys in
> the
> same general class as the Veritas planes.
I have a Stanley and I have a Veritas. I'd never buy Stanley again when you
can have the best.
> In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
> adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
> grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
> low angle?
It would be nice to have both, but I'd rather have the low angle for
versatility if I'm having one.
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> writes:
>On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 +0000, Doug White wrote:
>
>> With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good
>> block plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie
>> Nelson is probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the
>> Stanleys in the same general class as the Veritas planes.
>
>Your best bet for the money is an *old* Stanley. All the info you need
>on the 9 1/2 and the 60 or 60 1/2 can be found at:
>
>http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
If you're gonna get an old stanley, look for the #18.
scott
On Nov 6, 3:02=A0pm, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
> Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> writes:
> >On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 +0000, Doug White wrote:
>
> >> With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good
> >> block plane. =A0I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie
> >> Nelson is probably too pricey. =A0None of the reviews I've read put th=
e
> >> Stanleys in the same general class as the Veritas planes.
>
> >Your best bet for the money is an *old* Stanley. =A0All the info you nee=
d
> >on the 9 1/2 and the 60 or 60 1/2 can be found at:
>
> >http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
>
> If you're gonna get an old stanley, look for the #18.
>
> scott
Knuckle joint plane, one of the coolest looking ones.
The 18 I bought at a flea market in 1978 for $3.00 has
seen me through nearly every project since.
"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
>I am not sure what you mean that it might take more strokes. That's not
>quite true.
I have my smoothing plane calibrated for very thin shavings so when I'm
removing a given amount of wood, it takes more strokes. Just a feeble
attempt to be funny on my part.
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 GMT, Doug White <[email protected]> wrote:
>With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good block
>plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie Nelson is
>probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the Stanleys in the
>same general class as the Veritas planes.
>
>I'm not going to be doing much fine cabinet work, but have occasional need
>to trim pine, oak & walnut to get a good fit. That & the occasional sticky
>door.
>
>In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
>adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
>grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
>low angle?
>
>Thoughts, comments?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Doug White
Low angle planes are a definite plus when it comes to end grain. I like the
adjustable mouth to take fine shaving and I think it helps reduce tearout when
planing long grain.
As much as I love the LN and LV planes (I have the LV medium shoulder plane), if
money is any type of an object, I would recommend buying a user grade Stanley 65
/ 65-1/2 or 60 / 60-1/2, the older the better for your block plane. The older
they are, the more metal there is in the mouth for support. You might also
consider an apron plane like a Miller Falls #5..
If you search the bay regularly and are patient, you can snare a decent user
grade 65 for $35 or so, delivered. 60 is less.
Expect to have to clean, sharpen and fettle virtually any plane you buy, new or
used. LV, LN or Clifton and other extremely high quality planes will require
minimal tuning. Remember, when you buy a plane, you are actually buying a kit.
LV, LN and Clifton are just very, very well done kits.
You didn't ask about bench planes, but after you have your first plane, you have
started down a slippery slope, so here's take on bench planes. The Stanley
types 9-14 were probably the best they made. Numbers 3, 4 and 5 (smoothers and
q jack plane, Jeff) are available on ebay at excellent prices if you are patient
and willing to do some rehab.
You should be able to find one of these for $30 or less, and it is a better made
plane than any I have seen offered by the major woodworking chains until you get
to the quality level of a LN or LV. Yes, you have to spend a few hours
flattening soles and fitting the frog and cleaning and maybe gluing up the tote.
But you have to do that to anything you buy that costs less than the LV or LN
(except for gluing up the tote).
One thing I have noted about the well-used planes I've acquired. They were well
used by the person who owned them and made a living with them. They often are
well fettled. I have a #5 Stanley that arrived in fine fettle. Not a machine
mark on the top or bottom of the frog or the mating area on the sole. The sole
is flat, the sides are square and the lever cap operates with just a bit of
pressure and that is all that is needed since it is so well tuned. No need for
a Hock blade on this plane. Half the japanning is gone, the tote is chipped and
had a crack repaired, and overall appearance is rather ugly. But it sure is a
pleasure to use.
(I do not collect planes either, I do not collect planes either, I do not.....)
Regards,
Roy
I'm not familiar with the pricing of Veritas, but if your're willing to
buy used and do a little cleanup and tuning, for the price of the
LN, you can buy a Stanley 9 1/2, a 60 1/2, and probably have enough left
over to get a decent # 4 and 5 too.
--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 00:11:44 +0000, Doug White wrote:
> With Christmas coming, I'm thinking I could finally get myself a good
> block plane. I've seen decent reviews of Veritas's planes, and Lie
> Nelson is probably too pricey. None of the reviews I've read put the
> Stanleys in the same general class as the Veritas planes.
Your best bet for the money is an *old* Stanley. All the info you need
on the 9 1/2 and the 60 or 60 1/2 can be found at:
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On 11/4/2010 12:48 AM, Roy wrote:
> Low angle planes are a definite plus when it comes to end grain. I like the
> adjustable mouth to take fine shaving and I think it helps reduce tearout when
> planing long grain.
>
> As much as I love the LN and LV planes (I have the LV medium shoulder plane), if
> money is any type of an object, I would recommend buying a user grade Stanley 65
> / 65-1/2 or 60 / 60-1/2, the older the better for your block plane. The older
> they are, the more metal there is in the mouth for support. You might also
> consider an apron plane like a Miller Falls #5..
>
> If you search the bay regularly and are patient, you can snare a decent user
> grade 65 for $35 or so, delivered. 60 is less.
>
> Expect to have to clean, sharpen and fettle virtually any plane you buy, new or
> used. LV, LN or Clifton and other extremely high quality planes will require
> minimal tuning. Remember, when you buy a plane, you are actually buying a kit.
> LV, LN and Clifton are just very, very well done kits.
>
> You didn't ask about bench planes, but after you have your first plane, you have
> started down a slippery slope, so here's take on bench planes. The Stanley
> types 9-14 were probably the best they made. Numbers 3, 4 and 5 (smoothers and
> q jack plane, Jeff) are available on ebay at excellent prices if you are patient
> and willing to do some rehab.
>
> You should be able to find one of these for $30 or less, and it is a better made
> plane than any I have seen offered by the major woodworking chains until you get
> to the quality level of a LN or LV. Yes, you have to spend a few hours
> flattening soles and fitting the frog and cleaning and maybe gluing up the tote.
> But you have to do that to anything you buy that costs less than the LV or LN
> (except for gluing up the tote).
>
> One thing I have noted about the well-used planes I've acquired. They were well
> used by the person who owned them and made a living with them. They often are
> well fettled. I have a #5 Stanley that arrived in fine fettle. Not a machine
> mark on the top or bottom of the frog or the mating area on the sole. The sole
> is flat, the sides are square and the lever cap operates with just a bit of
> pressure and that is all that is needed since it is so well tuned. No need for
> a Hock blade on this plane. Half the japanning is gone, the tote is chipped and
> had a crack repaired, and overall appearance is rather ugly. But it sure is a
> pleasure to use.
>
> (I do not collect planes either, I do not collect planes either, I do not.....)
>
> Regards,
> Roy
What Roy said. Hey, is your last name Underhill by chance? :-)
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
I am not sure what you mean that it might take more strokes. That's not
quite true.
Low angle vs normal is more about endgrain.. not amount of strokes,
unless you need to back the blade off.
I recently purchased 3 very old Stanleys for $5. After a bit of elbow
grease I am really happy. Although my LN 60 1/2 is quite good, the old
stanleys are very good too. I got a Sweatheart No 18 pat 2-18-13
Another No 19 Pat Dec 28-86 and finally the another more modern unit a
No 19...
The number 18 is awesome... and in perfect shape after a little work.
Both the LV and LN are very good. I too recommend the Low Angle and a
second blade for normal angle. Just put a different angle on the second
blade. or use a micro bevel.
On 11/3/2010 8:38 PM, Upscale wrote:
> "Doug White"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> In terms of features, what do folks think about low-angle vs normal, and
>> adjustable throats? The low angle planes seem to be recommneded for end
>> grain, which I have to deal with on occasion. Is there a downside to the
>> low angle?
>
> The only downside I can think of is that planing might take a few more
> strokes when you have a considerable amount of wood to remove. I bought the
> Veritas 05P2501 low angle smoothing plane with 05P3001 jointer fence and
> 05P2502 A2 blade October of 2009. It has worked like a champ for almost all
> of my planing needs. I highly recommend it. In fact I was so impressed with
> the smoothing plane that about two months later, I went out and bought the
> 05P5120 plow plane with five blades as a Christmas present for myself.
>
>