Home Depot Oak Ply - Shame on me.

I've used oak and birch plywood from Home Depot, and I had decent luck usin=
g a cabinet scraper before applying a finish, not sand paper. The finish is=
very smooth, and yet the surface had enough traction to hold the finish we=
ll. The only problem with the birch plywood was the heinous smell of the gl=
ue when cutting.=20

Mike

On Oct 22, 3:01=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> I just finished some cabinets in our basement for my wife's sewing
> room. =A0I have had void problems with HD Oak ply in the past but was
> lured into buying a couple of sheets by the $20 difference/sheet
> (tight a**ed Irishman).
>
> The plywood worked well and I was pleased to find very few voids.
> Finishing has turned into a problem. =A0All surfaces were sanded lightly
> using 220. =A0It stained well, with even color, but I noticed the grain
> came up a little - more than I have ever experienced while staining
> Oak plywood. =A0The first coat of poly raised the grain so much I went
> back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on poly) =A0to make sure
> there was no contamination. =A0I also finished a couple of shelves in
> the garage with Minwax wipe-on which has never given me a problem -
> same result. =A0Even after sanding, the second coat of wipe-on on the
> shelves is very rough.
>
> This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD again. =A0Is anyone
> else having similar problems with HD or other sources?
>
> RonB

Sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-
sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-
sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-
sand.

Finally got the rough raised grained surfaces halfway "smooth" (no
grain fibers sticking up through the surface of the finish). Applied
coat number two yesterday afternoon, but still some rough and uneven
areas this morning.

Sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-sand-n-
sand-n-sand

Applied third coat this morning and wet surface looks good so far.
Might have to work out a few small bubbles X fingers crossed.

Again - no more HD ply until they decide to improve quality. Then
theirs will cost $20 more too.

RonB

On 10/22/2011 3:01 PM, RonB wrote:
> I just finished some cabinets in our basement for my wife's sewing
> room. I have had void problems with HD Oak ply in the past but was
> lured into buying a couple of sheets by the $20 difference/sheet
> (tight a**ed Irishman).
>
> The plywood worked well and I was pleased to find very few voids.
> Finishing has turned into a problem. All surfaces were sanded lightly
> using 220. It stained well, with even color, but I noticed the grain
> came up a little - more than I have ever experienced while staining
> Oak plywood. The first coat of poly raised the grain so much I went
> back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on poly) to make sure
> there was no contamination. I also finished a couple of shelves in
> the garage with Minwax wipe-on which has never given me a problem -
> same result. Even after sanding, the second coat of wipe-on on the
> shelves is very rough.
>
> This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD again. Is anyone
> else having similar problems with HD or other sources?
>
> RonB


That is pretty much normal results if you are using a water based
product. That is typically not a problem with oil based.

On Oct 23, 12:12=A0pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> > Nope - I'm using oil based stain and poly. =A0The main labor-culprit no=
w
> > is a 3' x 9' work surface that I started sanding this morning. =A0I am
> > having to be very careful to stay out of the stain and might have
> > gotten into it in a couple of places. =A0I think I am going to get it a=
s
> > good as I can, and then add a coat and work it down.
>
> > Ron
>
> In that case is it raised grain or simply a less than stellar
> application. =A0I use =A0oil based gel varnishes, slop them on and
> immediately smooth the whole whole surface with a clean rag. =A0Very Very
> often the surface feels like dust got on it and it feels like sand is on
> the surface.
>
> The quick solution after the LAST coat has dried is to wrap a piece of
> paper, =A0I use printer paper, around a block of wood and rub the entire
> surface a few strokes. =A0I get a baby's butt smooth surface in seconds.

My wife applied the first coat and she is pretty good at it. We did
most of the finish work on our new house and she has done top
finishing on most of the work; and she, has done it well. That said,
she said she did put the first coat on the bench top a little heavy,
and that might have exaggerated a grain lift on less that great
plywood. I was looking at the remaining stock in the garage and you
can BARELY see the veneer from the edge. I just did a second coat
over the sanded finish and it looks like it is going to be better.

Regarding using paper - I have used a brown grocery sack, on a sanding
block, for finish sanding some furniture pieces. Even using a semi-
gloss finish, it produces a very nice, smooth sheen.

RonB

On Oct 22, 7:45=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Twayne wrote:
> > In
> >news:29f4087c-fd1e-4364-a4b3-7ec815ddb45e@f36g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
> > RonB <[email protected]> typed:
> >> I just finished some cabinets in our basement for my
> >> wife's sewing room. =A0I have had void problems with HD Oak
> >> ply in the past but was lured into buying a couple of
> >> sheets by the $20 difference/sheet (tight a**ed Irishman).
>
> >> The plywood worked well and I was pleased to find very
> >> few voids. Finishing has turned into a problem. =A0All
> >> surfaces were sanded lightly using 220. =A0It stained well,
> >> with even color, but I noticed the grain came up a little
> >> - more than I have ever experienced while staining Oak
> >> plywood. =A0The first coat of poly raised the grain so much
> >> I went back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on
> >> poly) =A0to make sure there was no contamination. =A0I also
> >> finished a couple of shelves in the garage with Minwax
> >> wipe-on which has never given me a problem - same result.
> >> Even after sanding, the second coat of wipe-on on the
> >> shelves is very rough.
>
> >> This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD
> >> again. =A0Is anyone else having similar problems with HD or
> >> other sources?
>
> >> RonB
>
> > Hi ron,
>
> > Blamng HD isn't cool because you need to blame the source; which
> > could be one of many and found at many other POS also. Repeatability
> > you'll seldom find even among the same batches, so testing on
> > throw-away scraps can be important IMO, but not 100% relable even
> > then. You just have to develop methods that work across a broad range
> > =A0 and work on them. I guess the only really useful thing I can say is
> > to stick to non-water-based products - it seems to go a lot better
> > =A0 ALL the time for me. OTOH I haven't used a lot of the "new" plywood
> > lately so there could be more changes to it I'm not aware of.
>
> Along that line - I'm wondering if some of these plywoods are using a sof=
ter
> veneer than what we're used to with traditional hardwood plys. =A0If that=
's
> the case, proper cleaning prep becomes even more important. =A0I have fou=
nd
> that what I thought was grain lifting was really very fine sanding residu=
e.
> With these woods, are really good tack rag is your friend.
>


But don't wipe too hard or the 'veneer' will come right off...

On Oct 23, 9:12=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
> > Also.... The more I learn about Home Depot's political posturing, the
> > more difficult I find it to go into their stores.
> > Lowe's is opening a new store next door, here in Sarnia. I can't wait
> > as I certainly like dealing with Lowe's in both Port Huron MI and
> > London, ON.
>
> What is it that you are learning about THD's political posturing? =A0I do=
n't
> keep up with this stuff, so you have my interest.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]


This oughtta hold ya for a while LOL.

http://tinyurl.com/3mc7zl4

Robatoy wrote:

>
> Also.... The more I learn about Home Depot's political posturing, the
> more difficult I find it to go into their stores.
> Lowe's is opening a new store next door, here in Sarnia. I can't wait
> as I certainly like dealing with Lowe's in both Port Huron MI and
> London, ON.

What is it that you are learning about THD's political posturing? I don't
keep up with this stuff, so you have my interest.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Oct 22, 3:25=A0pm, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 13:01:33 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Oak plywood. =A0The first coat of poly raised the grain so much I went
> >back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on poly) =A0to make sure
> >there was no contamination.
> >This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD again. =A0Is anyone
> >else having similar problems with HD or other sources?
>
> It's not uncommon for sheet goods, especially plywood to raise the
> grain. One practice I often employ is to spray a light mist of water
> on unfinished plywood to raise the grain. I sand that down lightly and
> then apply my stain or paint or whatever coating I prefer.

I have used pre-stain conditioner a few times to raise the grain a bit
and then sand. But this time it looked like a gravel road.

Well, OK - a slight exaggeration ;o)

On Oct 22, 3:01=A0pm, RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
> I just finished some cabinets in our basement for my wife's sewing
> room. =A0I have had void problems with HD Oak ply in the past but was
> lured into buying a couple of sheets by the $20 difference/sheet
> (tight a**ed Irishman).
>
> The plywood worked well and I was pleased to find very few voids.
> Finishing has turned into a problem. =A0All surfaces were sanded lightly
> using 220. =A0It stained well, with even color, but I noticed the grain
> came up a little - more than I have ever experienced while staining
> Oak plywood. =A0The first coat of poly raised the grain so much I went
> back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on poly) =A0to make sure
> there was no contamination. =A0I also finished a couple of shelves in
> the garage with Minwax wipe-on which has never given me a problem -
> same result. =A0Even after sanding, the second coat of wipe-on on the
> shelves is very rough.
>
> This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD again. =A0Is anyone
> else having similar problems with HD or other sources?
>
> RonB

Ron,

I refer to plywood at the big box stores as "junk ply". What
Lowes sells as "cabinet grade"
is not fit to enter my shop. I long ago found that there is a big
difference in quality between the
"junk ply" and what is sold as cabinet grade ply at the local lumber
yard. I pay more, but I get
quality stuff and service. In one instance I had some de-amination
occuring while I cut the
stuff to size. I showed a piece to my supplier. He sent a truck to
pick up the remainder of the
stuff and bring new ply from a different batch. The old stuff went
back to the manufacturer. All
of this was accompanied by copius (sp) apologies and regrets.

I use all water based products now and have had no problems with
"water." The easiest method
for me is to spray on water based dyes (wipe a bit if it does not go
on evenly), let it dry, spray on a
coat of Hydrocote Resistane Plus, sand a bit and then follow up with
more Resistane Plus.
Rub out if you want a different level of smoothness or gloss.

I'm and amateur and the latest laws on using volatile lacquers and
finishes do not apply to me, but all professionals
using more that a few gallons a week are supposed to (must) switch to
water based products to
satisfy the latest laws. We all might as well get started and say
goodbye (sniff) to our favorite solvent
based lacquers and other finishes. The handwriting is on the wall.

my $.02 cents

Len

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 13:01:33 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Oak plywood. The first coat of poly raised the grain so much I went
>back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on poly) to make sure
>there was no contamination.
>This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD again. Is anyone
>else having similar problems with HD or other sources?

It's not uncommon for sheet goods, especially plywood to raise the
grain. One practice I often employ is to spray a light mist of water
on unfinished plywood to raise the grain. I sand that down lightly and
then apply my stain or paint or whatever coating I prefer.

On 10/23/2011 1:16 PM, RonB wrote:
> On Oct 23, 12:12 pm, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>> Nope - I'm using oil based stain and poly. The main labor-culprit now
>>> is a 3' x 9' work surface that I started sanding this morning. I am
>>> having to be very careful to stay out of the stain and might have
>>> gotten into it in a couple of places. I think I am going to get it as
>>> good as I can, and then add a coat and work it down.
>>
>>> Ron
>>
>> In that case is it raised grain or simply a less than stellar
>> application. I use oil based gel varnishes, slop them on and
>> immediately smooth the whole whole surface with a clean rag. Very Very
>> often the surface feels like dust got on it and it feels like sand is on
>> the surface.
>>
>> The quick solution after the LAST coat has dried is to wrap a piece of
>> paper, I use printer paper, around a block of wood and rub the entire
>> surface a few strokes. I get a baby's butt smooth surface in seconds.
>
> My wife applied the first coat and she is pretty good at it. We did
> most of the finish work on our new house and she has done top
> finishing on most of the work; and she, has done it well. That said,
> she said she did put the first coat on the bench top a little heavy,
> and that might have exaggerated a grain lift on less that great
> plywood. I was looking at the remaining stock in the garage and you
> can BARELY see the veneer from the edge. I just did a second coat
> over the sanded finish and it looks like it is going to be better.
>
> Regarding using paper - I have used a brown grocery sack, on a sanding
> block, for finish sanding some furniture pieces. Even using a semi-
> gloss finish, it produces a very nice, smooth sheen.
>
> RonB

Well then there you go Ron, you know what to do.

On Oct 23, 8:56=A0pm, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:40:07 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Oct 23, 4:32=A0pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >> On 10/23/2011 1:16 PM, RonB wrote:
>
> >> > On Oct 23, 12:12 pm, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> =A0wrote:
>
> >> >>> Nope - I'm using oil based stain and poly. =A0The main labor-culpr=
it now
> >> >>> is a 3' x 9' work surface that I started sanding this morning. =A0=
I am
> >> >>> having to be very careful to stay out of the stain and might have
> >> >>> gotten into it in a couple of places. =A0I think I am going to get=
it as
> >> >>> good as I can, and then add a coat and work it down.
>
> >> >>> Ron
>
> >> >> In that case is it raised grain or simply a less than stellar
> >> >> application. =A0I use =A0oil based gel varnishes, slop them on and
> >> >> immediately smooth the whole whole surface with a clean rag. =A0Ver=
y Very
> >> >> often the surface feels like dust got on it and it feels like sand =
is on
> >> >> the surface.
>
> >> >> The quick solution after the LAST coat has dried is to wrap a piece=
of
> >> >> paper, =A0I use printer paper, around a block of wood and rub the e=
ntire
> >> >> surface a few strokes. =A0I get a baby's butt smooth surface in sec=
onds.
>
> >> > My wife applied the first coat and she is pretty good at it. =A0We d=
id
> >> > most of the finish work on our new house and she has done top
> >> > finishing on most of the work; and she, has done it well. =A0That sa=
id,
> >> > she said she did put the first coat on the bench top a little heavy,
> >> > and that might have exaggerated a grain lift on less that great
> >> > plywood. =A0I was looking at the remaining stock in the garage and y=
ou
> >> > can BARELY see the veneer from the edge. =A0I just did a second coat
> >> > over the sanded finish and it looks like it is going to be better.
>
> >> > Regarding using paper - I have used a brown grocery sack, on a sandi=
ng
> >> > block, for finish sanding some furniture pieces. =A0Even using a sem=
i-
> >> > gloss finish, it produces a very nice, smooth sheen.
>
> >> > RonB
>
> >> Well then there you go Ron, you know what to do.
>
> >Yeah, I know. =A0But I am going to have to contact the "This Old House"
> >commercial guys and order some "elbow grease"!
>
> Not even! =A0The finer grits take less and less pressure to work.
> Relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx!
> Breathe in deeeeeeply.
> "Repeat after me 'Un yaleman. Un yaleman.' as you sink deeper and
> deeper into your subconscious." he said in a deep Indian accent.
>
> (So who knows the source for that particular material, hmm?)
>

That would be weed.

On Oct 22, 7:46=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 22, 7:45=A0pm, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Twayne wrote:
> > > In
> > >news:29f4087c-fd1e-4364-a4b3-7ec815ddb45e@f36g2000vbm.googlegroups.com=
,
> > > RonB <[email protected]> typed:
> > >> I just finished some cabinets in our basement for my
> > >> wife's sewing room. =A0I have had void problems with HD Oak
> > >> ply in the past but was lured into buying a couple of
> > >> sheets by the $20 difference/sheet (tight a**ed Irishman).
>
> > >> The plywood worked well and I was pleased to find very
> > >> few voids. Finishing has turned into a problem. =A0All
> > >> surfaces were sanded lightly using 220. =A0It stained well,
> > >> with even color, but I noticed the grain came up a little
> > >> - more than I have ever experienced while staining Oak
> > >> plywood. =A0The first coat of poly raised the grain so much
> > >> I went back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on
> > >> poly) =A0to make sure there was no contamination. =A0I also
> > >> finished a couple of shelves in the garage with Minwax
> > >> wipe-on which has never given me a problem - same result.
> > >> Even after sanding, the second coat of wipe-on on the
> > >> shelves is very rough.
>
> > >> This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD
> > >> again. =A0Is anyone else having similar problems with HD or
> > >> other sources?
>
> > >> RonB
>
> > > Hi ron,
>
> > > Blamng HD isn't cool because you need to blame the source; which
> > > could be one of many and found at many other POS also. Repeatability
> > > you'll seldom find even among the same batches, so testing on
> > > throw-away scraps can be important IMO, but not 100% relable even
> > > then. You just have to develop methods that work across a broad range
> > > =A0 and work on them. I guess the only really useful thing I can say =
is
> > > to stick to non-water-based products - it seems to go a lot better
> > > =A0 ALL the time for me. OTOH I haven't used a lot of the "new" plywo=
od
> > > lately so there could be more changes to it I'm not aware of.
>
> > Along that line - I'm wondering if some of these plywoods are using a s=
ofter
> > veneer than what we're used to with traditional hardwood plys. =A0If th=
at's
> > the case, proper cleaning prep becomes even more important. =A0I have f=
ound
> > that what I thought was grain lifting was really very fine sanding resi=
due.
> > With these woods, are really good tack rag is your friend.
>
> But don't wipe too hard or the 'veneer' will come right off...

Also.... The more I learn about Home Depot's political posturing, the
more difficult I find it to go into their stores.
Lowe's is opening a new store next door, here in Sarnia. I can't wait
as I certainly like dealing with Lowe's in both Port Huron MI and
London, ON.

On Oct 23, 4:32=A0pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 10/23/2011 1:16 PM, RonB wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 23, 12:12 pm, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> =A0wrote:
>
> >>> Nope - I'm using oil based stain and poly. =A0The main labor-culprit =
now
> >>> is a 3' x 9' work surface that I started sanding this morning. =A0I a=
m
> >>> having to be very careful to stay out of the stain and might have
> >>> gotten into it in a couple of places. =A0I think I am going to get it=
as
> >>> good as I can, and then add a coat and work it down.
>
> >>> Ron
>
> >> In that case is it raised grain or simply a less than stellar
> >> application. =A0I use =A0oil based gel varnishes, slop them on and
> >> immediately smooth the whole whole surface with a clean rag. =A0Very V=
ery
> >> often the surface feels like dust got on it and it feels like sand is =
on
> >> the surface.
>
> >> The quick solution after the LAST coat has dried is to wrap a piece of
> >> paper, =A0I use printer paper, around a block of wood and rub the enti=
re
> >> surface a few strokes. =A0I get a baby's butt smooth surface in second=
s.
>
> > My wife applied the first coat and she is pretty good at it. =A0We did
> > most of the finish work on our new house and she has done top
> > finishing on most of the work; and she, has done it well. =A0That said,
> > she said she did put the first coat on the bench top a little heavy,
> > and that might have exaggerated a grain lift on less that great
> > plywood. =A0I was looking at the remaining stock in the garage and you
> > can BARELY see the veneer from the edge. =A0I just did a second coat
> > over the sanded finish and it looks like it is going to be better.
>
> > Regarding using paper - I have used a brown grocery sack, on a sanding
> > block, for finish sanding some furniture pieces. =A0Even using a semi-
> > gloss finish, it produces a very nice, smooth sheen.
>
> > RonB
>
> Well then there you go Ron, you know what to do.

Yeah, I know. But I am going to have to contact the "This Old House"
commercial guys and order some "elbow grease"!

Ron - even though I do finishing as part of my professional routine, I
find that the differences in veneers, sources of veneers, outgassing
from the underlying glues, and the mystery woods they use to clad the
core make it a challenge even with good technique. It almost seems
like it doesn't matter where the plywood comes from or what name is
stamped on it.

I hate to add a step, but I think it is worthwhile. My customers
won't pay for something they think is substandard ( I wouldn't
either !! ) so I need to get it right.

I am a big proponent of NOT sanding beyond 220, and more of a fan of
concentrating on technique. But desperate materials require desperate
measures.

- **Lightly** sand to 320. While I have never seen the need to this
point to do so (and been critical of those that piss away the time
because they don't want to start finishing), I have found success
using 320 with the softer veneers of unknown woods used to make cab
ply. 320 generally smooths the older hardwoods too much to provide
great traction, but we can counteract that

- Use a conditioner to lightly treat the wood before coloring

- Color the wood with oil or solvent based colors, NOT water based,
and allow to dry completely

- Apply a very thin (but thick enough to cover with no voids) coat of
dewaxed shellac or as available sanding sealer. This is NOT a sanding
coat, but builds a bondable substrate. I cut the Bullseye sanding
sealer down by as much as 50% and simply spray it on

- Carefully sand any nibs, NOT the whole piece. Wipe the sandpaper
across it if you get ripple, but do not sand industriously as your
surface should be smooth before you start this process

- Apply your top coat of your finish as normal

I have tried and tried to use water borne finishes, and while they are
fine in some cases, they aren't as reliable as the solvent based
finishes. This is not a failure of the product as much as it is the
challenges presented by the material to be finished.

I want repeatability. While some of the waterborne finishes are
outstanding (ML Campbell, Sherwin Williams, Varathane, etc.) I don't
find them to be as
forgiving as solvent based. And the big selling point to using latex
is the fact that it is easier to cleanup and has less fumes. That is
total bullshit. While they *might* expulse less gasses, they gasses
they do (formaldehyde, ammonias, etc.) are just as dangerous as any
solvent. Since I wear a mask and gloves for most of my finishing
(everyone should) I figure since I am already uncomfortable, I don't
need to do it twice.

Good luck with your project. And as always, practice on a scrap, not
your project.

Robert

Twayne wrote:
> In
> news:29f4087c-fd1e-4364-a4b3-7ec815ddb45e@f36g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
> RonB <[email protected]> typed:
>> I just finished some cabinets in our basement for my
>> wife's sewing room. I have had void problems with HD Oak
>> ply in the past but was lured into buying a couple of
>> sheets by the $20 difference/sheet (tight a**ed Irishman).
>>
>> The plywood worked well and I was pleased to find very
>> few voids. Finishing has turned into a problem. All
>> surfaces were sanded lightly using 220. It stained well,
>> with even color, but I noticed the grain came up a little
>> - more than I have ever experienced while staining Oak
>> plywood. The first coat of poly raised the grain so much
>> I went back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on
>> poly) to make sure there was no contamination. I also
>> finished a couple of shelves in the garage with Minwax
>> wipe-on which has never given me a problem - same result.
>> Even after sanding, the second coat of wipe-on on the
>> shelves is very rough.
>>
>> This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD
>> again. Is anyone else having similar problems with HD or
>> other sources?
>>
>> RonB
>
> Hi ron,
>
> Blamng HD isn't cool because you need to blame the source; which
> could be one of many and found at many other POS also. Repeatability
> you'll seldom find even among the same batches, so testing on
> throw-away scraps can be important IMO, but not 100% relable even
> then. You just have to develop methods that work across a broad range
> and work on them. I guess the only really useful thing I can say is
> to stick to non-water-based products - it seems to go a lot better
> ALL the time for me. OTOH I haven't used a lot of the "new" plywood
> lately so there could be more changes to it I'm not aware of.

Along that line - I'm wondering if some of these plywoods are using a softer
veneer than what we're used to with traditional hardwood plys. If that's
the case, proper cleaning prep becomes even more important. I have found
that what I thought was grain lifting was really very fine sanding residue.
With these woods, are really good tack rag is your friend.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Oct 23, 12:04=A0am, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 10/22/2011 3:01 PM, RonB wrote:

>
> > RonB
>
> That is pretty much normal results if you are using a water based
> product. =A0That is typically not a problem with oil based.

Nope - I'm using oil based stain and poly. The main labor-culprit now
is a 3' x 9' work surface that I started sanding this morning. I am
having to be very careful to stay out of the stain and might have
gotten into it in a couple of places. I think I am going to get it as
good as I can, and then add a coat and work it down.

Ron

In news:29f4087c-fd1e-4364-a4b3-7ec815ddb45e@f36g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
RonB <[email protected]> typed:
> I just finished some cabinets in our basement for my
> wife's sewing room. I have had void problems with HD Oak
> ply in the past but was lured into buying a couple of
> sheets by the $20 difference/sheet (tight a**ed Irishman).
>
> The plywood worked well and I was pleased to find very
> few voids. Finishing has turned into a problem. All
> surfaces were sanded lightly using 220. It stained well,
> with even color, but I noticed the grain came up a little
> - more than I have ever experienced while staining Oak
> plywood. The first coat of poly raised the grain so much
> I went back and looked in my finish can (Minwax brush on
> poly) to make sure there was no contamination. I also
> finished a couple of shelves in the garage with Minwax
> wipe-on which has never given me a problem - same result.
> Even after sanding, the second coat of wipe-on on the
> shelves is very rough.
>
> This broke me - I'll never buy hardwood ply from HD
> again. Is anyone else having similar problems with HD or
> other sources?
>
> RonB

Hi ron,

Blamng HD isn't cool because you need to blame the source; which could be
one of many and found at many other POS also. Repeatability you'll seldom
find even among the same batches, so testing on throw-away scraps can be
important IMO, but not 100% relable even then. You just have to develop
methods that work across a broad range and work on them.
I guess the only really useful thing I can say is to stick to
non-water-based products - it seems to go a lot better ALL the time for me.
OTOH I haven't used a lot of the "new" plywood lately so there could be
more changes to it I'm not aware of.

On 10/22/11 6:46 PM, Robatoy wrote:
>
> But don't wipe too hard or the 'veneer' will come right off...
>

I refer to that as a rubber stamp of wood.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 10/23/2011 9:41 AM, RonB wrote:
> On Oct 23, 12:04 am, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> On 10/22/2011 3:01 PM, RonB wrote:
>
>>
>>> RonB
>>
>> That is pretty much normal results if you are using a water based
>> product. That is typically not a problem with oil based.
>
> Nope - I'm using oil based stain and poly. The main labor-culprit now
> is a 3' x 9' work surface that I started sanding this morning. I am
> having to be very careful to stay out of the stain and might have
> gotten into it in a couple of places. I think I am going to get it as
> good as I can, and then add a coat and work it down.
>
> Ron

In that case is it raised grain or simply a less than stellar
application. I use oil based gel varnishes, slop them on and
immediately smooth the whole whole surface with a clean rag. Very Very
often the surface feels like dust got on it and it feels like sand is on
the surface.

The quick solution after the LAST coat has dried is to wrap a piece of
paper, I use printer paper, around a block of wood and rub the entire
surface a few strokes. I get a baby's butt smooth surface in seconds.

On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:40:07 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Oct 23, 4:32 pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>> On 10/23/2011 1:16 PM, RonB wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 23, 12:12 pm, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>  wrote:
>>
>> >>> Nope - I'm using oil based stain and poly.  The main labor-culprit now
>> >>> is a 3' x 9' work surface that I started sanding this morning.  I am
>> >>> having to be very careful to stay out of the stain and might have
>> >>> gotten into it in a couple of places.  I think I am going to get it as
>> >>> good as I can, and then add a coat and work it down.
>>
>> >>> Ron
>>
>> >> In that case is it raised grain or simply a less than stellar
>> >> application.  I use  oil based gel varnishes, slop them on and
>> >> immediately smooth the whole whole surface with a clean rag.  Very Very
>> >> often the surface feels like dust got on it and it feels like sand is on
>> >> the surface.
>>
>> >> The quick solution after the LAST coat has dried is to wrap a piece of
>> >> paper,  I use printer paper, around a block of wood and rub the entire
>> >> surface a few strokes.  I get a baby's butt smooth surface in seconds.
>>
>> > My wife applied the first coat and she is pretty good at it.  We did
>> > most of the finish work on our new house and she has done top
>> > finishing on most of the work; and she, has done it well.  That said,
>> > she said she did put the first coat on the bench top a little heavy,
>> > and that might have exaggerated a grain lift on less that great
>> > plywood.  I was looking at the remaining stock in the garage and you
>> > can BARELY see the veneer from the edge.  I just did a second coat
>> > over the sanded finish and it looks like it is going to be better.
>>
>> > Regarding using paper - I have used a brown grocery sack, on a sanding
>> > block, for finish sanding some furniture pieces.  Even using a semi-
>> > gloss finish, it produces a very nice, smooth sheen.
>>
>> > RonB
>>
>> Well then there you go Ron, you know what to do.
>
>Yeah, I know. But I am going to have to contact the "This Old House"
>commercial guys and order some "elbow grease"!

Not even! The finer grits take less and less pressure to work.
Relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx!
Breathe in deeeeeeply.
"Repeat after me 'Un yaleman. Un yaleman.' as you sink deeper and
deeper into your subconscious." he said in a deep Indian accent.

(So who knows the source for that particular material, hmm?)

--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson

Baloney!

Just read some of the dozens of complaints here over the last few years
about grain arising problems with any kind of stain.

Maybe speak from some real experience instead of just trolling.


----------
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
That is pretty much normal results if you are using a water based
product. That is typically not a problem with oil based.