Hey All,
I just want to relate an experience I had yesterday in my basement
woodshop. We have a three flue chimney with a coal stove in the
basement (shop side) and our oil fired boiler which uses another flue
on the "not quite" clean side. This is also our laundry room and my
wife went ahead and ran a load of clothes in the drier because they
did not dry completely from being outside earlier in the day. Up
stairs is our woodstove which uses the third flue. We had a fire
going in the woodstove and all is going well. I was in my shop
marking layout lines on the legs for my dining room table when I
smelled wood smoke which I traced to the coal stove. I never had that
happen before but soon I realized it was the clothes drier removing
room air and the main source of make-up air was coming from the flue
of the coal stove. We rarley use the drier, relying mostly on hanging
clothes outside or nearby the two stoves to dry.
I never smelled oil fumes when the drier was used so it either was
never running when the boiler was firing or the air paths were not
affected. This just goes to show you that you really need to provide
make-up air if you exhaust your dust collector outside. A clothes
drier passes a lot less air than a DC but its results are almost as
significant. (My dust collector uses a large pleated filter so it
always returns filtered air to the shop.)
By the way, I am copying the design for the Hayrake table that was
shown on the Fine Woodworking site a few months ago.
Hope everybody's team wins today except for you Steelers fans. Go
Ravens!
Marc
LOL
When we ran the central vac our toilets spit water onto the ceilings
and my ears popped.
--------------
"Max" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Pshaw! When we built our house it was so "tight" that the first time
we
vacuumed the carpet all the sheet rock nails popped.
Max
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:56:22 -0400, Gerald Ross <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:24:04 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 23, 2:39 pm, "Phil Kangas"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> He needs to put a hole in that thermos bottle of a
>>>> house
>>>> he is living in........- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>
>>>Just for the record my house has more leaks than Wiki but thanks for
>>>the suggestion.
>>
>> Fix the leaks and then properly modulate the air exchange for health.
>>
>> Here ya go: http://goo.gl/HWDDo
>>
>> Unless your house is much larger, in which case you need something
>> more like these: http://goo.gl/5fipl or
>> Cha CHING: http://goo.gl/0HK4J
>>
>Can't imagine living in a house wrapped and caulked so tight that
>every time the dog farts your ears pop. Like living in a submarine.
Quite the evocative description, Ger.
It sounds illogical but there's a method to their madness. A thermal
exchange unit, it warms the air as it breathes in winter so it doesn't
cost you an arm and a leg for your air leaks. Regular leaks leak hot
air out and suck cold air in indiscrimately, perhaps into one room
alone. They cost lots of HVAC time to recover from.
>So then you need a $3000 snorkel to breathe.
The bigun was a 600cfm monster for a bigass megaMcMansion, methinks.
The littleun (60cfm, $321) would work for my 1,500s/f home.
--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson
"Gerald Ross" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:24:04 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 23, 2:39 pm, "Phil Kangas"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> He needs to put a hole in that thermos bottle of a
>>>> house
>>>> he is living in........- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>
>>>Just for the record my house has more leaks than Wiki but thanks for
>>>the suggestion.
>>
>> Fix the leaks and then properly modulate the air exchange for health.
>>
>> Here ya go: http://goo.gl/HWDDo
>>
>> Unless your house is much larger, in which case you need something
>> more like these: http://goo.gl/5fipl or
>> Cha CHING: http://goo.gl/0HK4J
>>
> Can't imagine living in a house wrapped and caulked so tight that every
> time the dog farts your ears pop. Like living in a submarine. So then you
> need a $3000 snorkel to breathe.
> --
> Gerald Ross
>
> Hi! I can't remember your name either.
>
Pshaw! When we built our house it was so "tight" that the first time we
vacuumed the carpet all the sheet rock nails popped.
Max
Stuart <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> That was my forst thought too. Inadequate supply of fresh air to any
> combustion device /will/ result in the production of Carbon Monoxide. Get
> yourself a CO alarm pronto.
>
I've got one out in the garage to monitor the boiler. It went off last
spring and told me the boiler really needed cleaned. (It's such a simple
process, I'm adding it to the shutdown procedures.)
The same CO detector was in the house when we had a propane water heater.
It went off and we got a new water heater. (Now that it's electric, we
don't need it in the house.)
Puckdropper
Stuart wrote:
> Inadequate supply of fresh air to any
> combustion device /will/ result in the production of Carbon
> Monoxide. Get
> yourself a CO alarm pronto.
---------------------------------------
Here in Los Angeles, the building codes have been revised to require
CO monitor in single family residences within the last 6 months..
Lew
Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:56:22 -0400, Gerald Ross <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Can't imagine living in a house wrapped and caulked so tight that
>>every time the dog farts your ears pop. Like living in a submarine.
>
> Quite the evocative description, Ger.
>
> It sounds illogical but there's a method to their madness. A thermal
> exchange unit, it warms the air as it breathes in winter so it doesn't
> cost you an arm and a leg for your air leaks. Regular leaks leak hot
> air out and suck cold air in indiscrimately, perhaps into one room
> alone. They cost lots of HVAC time to recover from.
>
>
>>So then you need a $3000 snorkel to breathe.
>
> The bigun was a 600cfm monster for a bigass megaMcMansion, methinks.
> The littleun (60cfm, $321) would work for my 1,500s/f home.
>
At one time, during a tornado it was recommended that you keep one window
away from the tornado open to avoid your house exploding from the sudden
change in pressure. When this advice was debunked, one of the things
that was pointed out was that most houses are so leaky they'll easily
adjust to the change. Now that we're building tighter and tighter
houses, might we have to worry about explosion again? *g*
Puckdropper
"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote
>
> At one time, during a tornado it was recommended that you keep one window
> away from the tornado open to avoid your house exploding from the sudden
> change in pressure. When this advice was debunked, one of the things
> that was pointed out was that most houses are so leaky they'll easily
> adjust to the change. Now that we're building tighter and tighter
> houses, might we have to worry about explosion again? *g*
>
Buckminster Fuller did some experiments with a dome design in a wind tunnel.
He equipped his dome with a "lift up" vent on top of the dome. If the
pressure dropped out side of the house, the vent popped up and saved the
structure. The point being if the dome was anchored well, it could easily
weather strong storm events.
I assume there was enough air left in the building to support life. And I
would want some way to get more air in the building quickly after this
event. Wouldn't want to be a building that was sealed tight as a drum and
have all it's internal air sucked out.
On Oct 23, 2:39=A0pm, "Phil Kangas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Twayne" <[email protected]> wrote in
> messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In
> >news:df09bd33-7b58-42fc-b93d-dbd621592886@f11g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
> > marc rosen <[email protected]> typed:
> >> Hey All,
> >> I just want to relate an experience I had
> >> yesterday in my
> >> basement woodshop. =A0We have a three flue
> >> chimney with a
> >> coal stove in the basement (shop side) and our
> >> oil fired
> >> boiler which uses another flue on the "not
> >> quite" clean
> >> side. =A0This is also our laundry room and my
> >> wife went
> >> ahead and ran a load of clothes in the drier
> >> because they
> >> did not dry completely from being outside
> >> earlier in the
> >> day. =A0Up stairs is our woodstove which uses the
> >> third
> >> flue. =A0We had a fire going in the woodstove and
> >> all is
> >> going well. =A0I was in my shop marking layout
> >> lines on the
> >> legs for my dining room table when I smelled
> >> wood smoke
> >> which I traced to the coal stove. =A0I never had
> >> that
> >> happen before but soon I realized it was the
> >> clothes
> >> drier removing room air and the main source of
> >> make-up
> >> air was coming from the flue of the coal stove.
> >> We
> >> rarley use the drier, relying mostly on hanging
> >> clothes
> >> outside or nearby the two stoves to dry.
>
> >> I never smelled oil fumes when the drier was
> >> used so it
> >> either was never running when the boiler was
> >> firing or
> >> the air paths were not affected. =A0This just
> >> goes to show
> >> you that you really need to provide make-up air
> >> if you
> >> exhaust your dust collector outside. =A0A clothes
> >> drier
> >> passes a lot less air than a DC but its results
> >> are
> >> almost as significant. =A0(My dust collector uses
> >> a large
> >> pleated filter so it always returns filtered
> >> air to the
> >> shop.)
>
> >> By the way, I am copying the design for the
> >> Hayrake table
> >> that was shown on the Fine Woodworking site a
> >> few months
> >> ago.
>
> >> Marc
>
> > Just goes to show what ignorance of chimnmey
> > installations can cause. Makes me wonder just
> > how much CO is being blown around the house,
> > too; =A0you know, that odorless, colorless,
> > killing gas called CO vs CO2?
>
> >http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/466.html
>
> >http://co-info.blogspot.com/2006/11/what-are-safe-levels-and-dangerou...
>
> >http://www.nyad.com/pdf/carbon_monoxide_danger_levels.pdf
>
> > You have some repairs to do!!
>
> He needs to put a hole in that thermos bottle of a
> house
> he is living in........- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just for the record my house has more leaks than Wiki but thanks for
the suggestion.
=20
Marc
In article <[email protected]>,
Twayne <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just goes to show what ignorance of chimnmey installations can cause.
> Makes me wonder just how much CO is being blown around the house, too;
> you know, that odorless, colorless, killing gas called CO vs CO2?
That was my forst thought too. Inadequate supply of fresh air to any
combustion device /will/ result in the production of Carbon Monoxide. Get
yourself a CO alarm pronto.
--
Stuart Winsor
Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:24:58 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> wrote:
>WE use them.
Bullshit!
Just read some of the dozens of complaints here over the last few
years.
Maybe speak from some real experience instead of just trolling.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:24:04 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 23, 2:39 pm, "Phil Kangas"<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> He needs to put a hole in that thermos bottle of a
>>> house
>>> he is living in........- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>
>>Just for the record my house has more leaks than Wiki but thanks for
>>the suggestion.
>
> Fix the leaks and then properly modulate the air exchange for health.
>
> Here ya go: http://goo.gl/HWDDo
>
> Unless your house is much larger, in which case you need something
> more like these: http://goo.gl/5fipl or
> Cha CHING: http://goo.gl/0HK4J
>
Can't imagine living in a house wrapped and caulked so tight that
every time the dog farts your ears pop. Like living in a submarine.
So then you need a $3000 snorkel to breathe.
--
Gerald Ross
Hi! I can't remember your name either.
HRV
WE use them.
--------------------
"marc rosen" wrote in message
news:df09bd33-7b58-42fc-b93d-dbd621592886@f11g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
Hey All,
I just want to relate an experience I had yesterday in my basement
woodshop. We have a three flue chimney with a coal stove in the
basement (shop side) and our oil fired boiler which uses another flue
on the "not quite" clean side. This is also our laundry room and my
wife went ahead and ran a load of clothes in the drier because they
did not dry completely from being outside earlier in the day. Up
stairs is our woodstove which uses the third flue. We had a fire
going in the woodstove and all is going well. I was in my shop
marking layout lines on the legs for my dining room table when I
smelled wood smoke which I traced to the coal stove. I never had that
happen before but soon I realized it was the clothes drier removing
room air and the main source of make-up air was coming from the flue
of the coal stove. We rarley use the drier, relying mostly on hanging
clothes outside or nearby the two stoves to dry.
I never smelled oil fumes when the drier was used so it either was
never running when the boiler was firing or the air paths were not
affected. This just goes to show you that you really need to provide
make-up air if you exhaust your dust collector outside. A clothes
drier passes a lot less air than a DC but its results are almost as
significant. (My dust collector uses a large pleated filter so it
always returns filtered air to the shop.)
By the way, I am copying the design for the Hayrake table that was
shown on the Fine Woodworking site a few months ago.
Hope everybody's team wins today except for you Steelers fans. Go
Ravens!
Marc
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 12:24:04 -0700 (PDT), marc rosen
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Oct 23, 2:39 pm, "Phil Kangas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> He needs to put a hole in that thermos bottle of a
>> house
>> he is living in........- Hide quoted text -
>>
>
>Just for the record my house has more leaks than Wiki but thanks for
>the suggestion.
Fix the leaks and then properly modulate the air exchange for health.
Here ya go: http://goo.gl/HWDDo
Unless your house is much larger, in which case you need something
more like these: http://goo.gl/5fipl or
Cha CHING: http://goo.gl/0HK4J
--
It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are
not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment.
-- Freeman Dyson
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:05:44 -0400, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:24:58 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>WE use them.
>
> Bullshit!
> Just read some of the dozens of complaints here over the last few years.
>
> Maybe speak from some real experience instead of just trolling.
How did you manage to do a reply with the wrong subject? A new "feature"
of Agent?
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
In news:df09bd33-7b58-42fc-b93d-dbd621592886@f11g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
marc rosen <[email protected]> typed:
> Hey All,
> I just want to relate an experience I had yesterday in my
> basement woodshop. We have a three flue chimney with a
> coal stove in the basement (shop side) and our oil fired
> boiler which uses another flue on the "not quite" clean
> side. This is also our laundry room and my wife went
> ahead and ran a load of clothes in the drier because they
> did not dry completely from being outside earlier in the
> day. Up stairs is our woodstove which uses the third
> flue. We had a fire going in the woodstove and all is
> going well. I was in my shop marking layout lines on the
> legs for my dining room table when I smelled wood smoke
> which I traced to the coal stove. I never had that
> happen before but soon I realized it was the clothes
> drier removing room air and the main source of make-up
> air was coming from the flue of the coal stove. We
> rarley use the drier, relying mostly on hanging clothes
> outside or nearby the two stoves to dry.
>
>
> I never smelled oil fumes when the drier was used so it
> either was never running when the boiler was firing or
> the air paths were not affected. This just goes to show
> you that you really need to provide make-up air if you
> exhaust your dust collector outside. A clothes drier
> passes a lot less air than a DC but its results are
> almost as significant. (My dust collector uses a large
> pleated filter so it always returns filtered air to the
> shop.)
>
> By the way, I am copying the design for the Hayrake table
> that was shown on the Fine Woodworking site a few months
> ago.
>
>
> Marc
Just goes to show what ignorance of chimnmey installations can cause. Makes
me wonder just how much CO is being blown around the house, too; you know,
that odorless, colorless, killing gas called CO vs CO2?
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/466.html
http://co-info.blogspot.com/2006/11/what-are-safe-levels-and-dangerous.html
http://www.nyad.com/pdf/carbon_monoxide_danger_levels.pdf
You have some repairs to do!!
"Twayne" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> In
> news:df09bd33-7b58-42fc-b93d-dbd621592886@f11g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
> marc rosen <[email protected]> typed:
>> Hey All,
>> I just want to relate an experience I had
>> yesterday in my
>> basement woodshop. We have a three flue
>> chimney with a
>> coal stove in the basement (shop side) and our
>> oil fired
>> boiler which uses another flue on the "not
>> quite" clean
>> side. This is also our laundry room and my
>> wife went
>> ahead and ran a load of clothes in the drier
>> because they
>> did not dry completely from being outside
>> earlier in the
>> day. Up stairs is our woodstove which uses the
>> third
>> flue. We had a fire going in the woodstove and
>> all is
>> going well. I was in my shop marking layout
>> lines on the
>> legs for my dining room table when I smelled
>> wood smoke
>> which I traced to the coal stove. I never had
>> that
>> happen before but soon I realized it was the
>> clothes
>> drier removing room air and the main source of
>> make-up
>> air was coming from the flue of the coal stove.
>> We
>> rarley use the drier, relying mostly on hanging
>> clothes
>> outside or nearby the two stoves to dry.
>>
>>
>> I never smelled oil fumes when the drier was
>> used so it
>> either was never running when the boiler was
>> firing or
>> the air paths were not affected. This just
>> goes to show
>> you that you really need to provide make-up air
>> if you
>> exhaust your dust collector outside. A clothes
>> drier
>> passes a lot less air than a DC but its results
>> are
>> almost as significant. (My dust collector uses
>> a large
>> pleated filter so it always returns filtered
>> air to the
>> shop.)
>>
>> By the way, I am copying the design for the
>> Hayrake table
>> that was shown on the Fine Woodworking site a
>> few months
>> ago.
>>
>>
>> Marc
>
> Just goes to show what ignorance of chimnmey
> installations can cause. Makes me wonder just
> how much CO is being blown around the house,
> too; you know, that odorless, colorless,
> killing gas called CO vs CO2?
>
> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/466.html
>
> http://co-info.blogspot.com/2006/11/what-are-safe-levels-and-dangerous.html
>
> http://www.nyad.com/pdf/carbon_monoxide_danger_levels.pdf
>
> You have some repairs to do!!
>
He needs to put a hole in that thermos bottle of a
house
he is living in........
"marc rosen" wrote in message
news:4ea6e212-6481-4a25-a38d-acbe7befe9c8@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 23, 2:39 pm, "Phil Kangas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Twayne" <[email protected]> wrote in
> messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In
> >news:df09bd33-7b58-42fc-b93d-dbd621592886@f11g2000vbm.googlegroups.com,
> > marc rosen <[email protected]> typed:
> >> Hey All,
> >> I just want to relate an experience I had
> >> yesterday in my
> >> basement woodshop. We have a three flue
> >> chimney with a
> >> coal stove in the basement (shop side) and our
> >> oil fired
> >> boiler which uses another flue on the "not
> >> quite" clean
> >> side. This is also our laundry room and my
> >> wife went
> >> ahead and ran a load of clothes in the drier
> >> because they
> >> did not dry completely from being outside
> >> earlier in the
> >> day. Up stairs is our woodstove which uses the
> >> third
> >> flue. We had a fire going in the woodstove and
> >> all is
> >> going well. I was in my shop marking layout
> >> lines on the
> >> legs for my dining room table when I smelled
> >> wood smoke
> >> which I traced to the coal stove. I never had
> >> that
> >> happen before but soon I realized it was the
> >> clothes
> >> drier removing room air and the main source of
> >> make-up
> >> air was coming from the flue of the coal stove.
> >> We
> >> rarley use the drier, relying mostly on hanging
> >> clothes
> >> outside or nearby the two stoves to dry.
>
> >> I never smelled oil fumes when the drier was
> >> used so it
> >> either was never running when the boiler was
> >> firing or
> >> the air paths were not affected. This just
> >> goes to show
> >> you that you really need to provide make-up air
> >> if you
> >> exhaust your dust collector outside. A clothes
> >> drier
> >> passes a lot less air than a DC but its results
> >> are
> >> almost as significant. (My dust collector uses
> >> a large
> >> pleated filter so it always returns filtered
> >> air to the
> >> shop.)
>
> >> By the way, I am copying the design for the
> >> Hayrake table
> >> that was shown on the Fine Woodworking site a
> >> few months
> >> ago.
>
> >> Marc
>
> > Just goes to show what ignorance of chimnmey
> > installations can cause. Makes me wonder just
> > how much CO is being blown around the house,
> > too; you know, that odorless, colorless,
> > killing gas called CO vs CO2?
>
> >http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/466.html
>
> >http://co-info.blogspot.com/2006/11/what-are-safe-levels-and-dangerou...
>
> >http://www.nyad.com/pdf/carbon_monoxide_danger_levels.pdf
>
> > You have some repairs to do!!
>
> He needs to put a hole in that thermos bottle of a
> house
> he is living in........- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just for the record my house has more leaks than Wiki but thanks for
the suggestion.
Marc
==========
Apparently you do not have enough leaks, as you have already told us
you demonstrated the effects of the exact opposite. Even leaks with a
breeze blowing the wrong direction can be dangerous with convection
based fuels burning appliances and a leaky house.
I would hope you would have CO detectors installed in your home outside
bedroom areas, at least. If you don't return here some day we may
assume you woke up dead or too much brain damage to remember your
log-in.
It can get serious real quick with children. You probably should too.
--
Eric
"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 10:05:44 -0400, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:24:58 -0400, "m II" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>WE use them.
>
> Bullshit!
> Just read some of the dozens of complaints here over the last few
> years.
>
> Maybe speak from some real experience instead of just trolling.
How did you manage to do a reply with the wrong subject? A new
"feature"
of Agent?
==============
People love to get these fancy readers and newsgroups have many
problems with basic communication confusion due to lack of expertise
with them.
Why do some have to make things so complicated?
--
Eric
Those prices are out-to-lunch.
Home Depot sells good units in Canuckistan for about $6-700. Piping. vents
and control would be extra. I think I paid about $550 for mine through a
heating contractor distributor. (different brand)
Years back, I put a 2" PVC pipe into my cold air return pipe and stuck it
outside years ago. That works not too badly. The windows stops leaking and
the draughts get better in the house. In cold climates too much pressure is
not good as it can drive moisture into the framing and freeze.
http://reviews.homedepot.ca/1998/971356/reviews.htm
Looks like HD discontinued this one.
------------
"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Can't imagine living in a house wrapped and caulked so tight that
every time the dog farts your ears pop. Like living in a submarine.
So then you need a $3000 snorkel to breathe.
--
Gerald Ross
Hi! I can't remember your name either.