Hi,
I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
accommodate the post.
I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
probably bog down in seconds
so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
Thanks, Izak.
In article <[email protected]>, John
<[email protected]> wrote:
> RAS would work as well
As would a hand saw...
I would simply cut a 2"x6" tenon 6" long on the post end and a matching
2"x6" mortise full depth in the beam. You can do the tenon with a handsaw
and the mortise with a drill and a chisel.
--
Ross
www.myoldtools.com
"Izak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
> accommodate the post.
>
> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
> probably bog down in seconds. so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>
> Thanks, Izak.
izaks asks:
>I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
>want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
>accommodate the post.
>
>I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
>circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
>probably bog down in seconds⦠so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
Handsaw and chisel.
Charlie Self
"Inanimate objects are classified scientifically into three major categories -
those that don't work, those that break down and those that get lost." Russell
Baker
On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:23:50 +0100, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:37:31 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>If'n you want to do something that is both structurally sound and
>>really cool, make a dovetailed joint between the two.
>
>I can see using one of those funky little Japanese cogged joints on
>the horizontal joint surface to hold it against twisting, but what's
>this dovetail for ? Where's the vertical tensile force coming from ?
Too many folks build as though compressive forces were the only ones
in play. The uplift caused by wind can be significant.
I don't know where you live but around here hurricane straps are used
to tie the framing together from the roof to the mudsill.
The pergola wouldn't provide much sail area in relation to its weight
- at least if it remains just bare sticks, however, I would
anticipate the possibility of foliage and trellis material adding a
great deal more sail area - to the degree that I would want to address
the uplift issue.
The dovetail that I've described would be easier and faster to cut
than the mortise and tenon, would have better mechanical properties,
and would add a bit of detail.
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
A panel saw (Disston) is a labor saving device in this case. :-)
"Izak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
> accommodate the post.
>
> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
> probably bog down in seconds. so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>
> Thanks, Izak.
Take the circular saw that you have, make 2 length wise plunge cuts to your
3" deep layout lines and keep them within your 6" crosscut layout lines on
both sides. This will give you a clean joint line. Then make several kerf
cuts across the beam within your layout. I'm betting this will leave about a
1/4' depth to get downto the first plunge cuts. Finish off the cross kerfs
with a bow saw if possible then knock out the waste with a hammer and clean
up the surface with a chisel so that its level from one plunge cut to the
other. If this is green treat keep the circular saw tooth count down to
about 24 tooth blade. A little practice and you will knock 'em out about 20
minutes a piece.
Eric Johnson writes:
>Take the circular saw that you have, make 2 length wise plunge cuts to your
>3" deep layout lines
Not a whole lot of basic circular saws will make a 3" deep cut. Maybe one with
a 10" blade, but otherwise, this depth requires a handsaw.
Why would a plunge cut be needed for a dado?
Charlie Self
"Inanimate objects are classified scientifically into three major categories -
those that don't work, those that break down and those that get lost." Russell
Baker
On 10 Aug 2004 09:59:53 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
calmly ranted:
>Eric Johnson writes:
>
>>Take the circular saw that you have, make 2 length wise plunge cuts to your
>>3" deep layout lines
>
>Not a whole lot of basic circular saws will make a 3" deep cut. Maybe one with
>a 10" blade, but otherwise, this depth requires a handsaw.
True, but have you seen those honkin' bastids they use for
timber framing? Handheld 14" circular saws! <ar ar ar>
>Why would a plunge cut be needed for a dado?
Maybe it was a hot summer day and his mind was on swimming.
>Charlie Self
>"Inanimate objects are classified scientifically into three major categories -
>those that don't work, those that break down and those that get lost." Russell
>Baker
I've modified John Ruskin's original to this:
--
-------------------------------------------------------
Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.
----
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
"Henry E Schaffer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Izak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
> >> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
> >> accommodate the post.
> >>
> >> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
> >> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
> >> probably bog down in seconds. so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
> >>
> >> Thanks, Izak.
> >
> >There have been a lot of replies to this but as I understand your
question,
> >none of them will work. You threw everybody off by indicating you want
to
> >cut a dado, but your description describes a pocket. Two very different
> >animals. For a 6x6x3 pocket, I'd drill a series of holes 3in deep and
> >chisel out the edges to make them square. Use a one inch or bigger bit
and
> >put a tape marker on it to indicate your depth, and you'll be all set.
>
> If the beam, as described above is 6x6, then the "pocket" is the full
> width of the beam - and so is also a dado.
>
> At least that's what it looked like to me.
Argh!!!! That'll teach me. OK, so I change my plea. My advise is now to
use a handsaw.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:37:31 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>If'n you want to do something that is both structurally sound and
>really cool, make a dovetailed joint between the two.
I can see using one of those funky little Japanese cogged joints on
the horizontal joint surface to hold it against twisting, but what's
this dovetail for ? Where's the vertical tensile force coming from ?
--
Smert' spamionam
"Izak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
> accommodate the post.
>
> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
> probably bog down in seconds. so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>
> Thanks, Izak.
There have been a lot of replies to this but as I understand your question,
none of them will work. You threw everybody off by indicating you want to
cut a dado, but your description describes a pocket. Two very different
animals. For a 6x6x3 pocket, I'd drill a series of holes 3in deep and
chisel out the edges to make them square. Use a one inch or bigger bit and
put a tape marker on it to indicate your depth, and you'll be all set.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Thank you all for your excellent suggestions. I certainly have changed
my original design and approach for this job.
The modified design will still have a beam mounted on top of the 2
post but the posts will be placed 20" from each end of the beam. This
way, I will not do a pocket but a big dado 6" wide by 6" long and only
2" deep so not to expose the post end grain to the elements and will
gain better structural design for the horizontal beam.
Further more, 2" deep cut I can do with a hand held circular saw and a
guide and then chisel out the waste.
By the way, the pergola is 17 foot long and 11 foot wide so using a
table saw is out of the question anyway
Thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Izak.
Brad Bruce wrote:
> Izak wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
>> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
>> accommodate the post.
>>
>> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
>> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
>> probably bog down in seconds
so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>>
>> Thanks, Izak.
>
>
> Don't you mean 5 1/2 by 5 1/2? (Just kidding)
>
> Since your going all the way across, what you can do is make several saw
> cuts (closely spaced) accross the pieces that will overlap and then
> break them out with a chisel.
>
> NJBrad
You can start the cuts with a circular saw and then finsh with a handsaw...
NJBrad
In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Izak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
>> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
>> accommodate the post.
>>
>> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
>> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
>> probably bog down in seconds. so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>>
>> Thanks, Izak.
>
>There have been a lot of replies to this but as I understand your question,
>none of them will work. You threw everybody off by indicating you want to
>cut a dado, but your description describes a pocket. Two very different
>animals. For a 6x6x3 pocket, I'd drill a series of holes 3in deep and
>chisel out the edges to make them square. Use a one inch or bigger bit and
>put a tape marker on it to indicate your depth, and you'll be all set.
If the beam, as described above is 6x6, then the "pocket" is the full
width of the beam - and so is also a dado.
At least that's what it looked like to me.
--
--henry schaffer
hes _AT_ ncsu _DOT_ edu
Izak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
> accommodate the post.
>
> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
> probably bog down in seconds
so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
It sounds to me like a job for a Sawzall, possibly with some hand cleanup
afterward. Since you don't have a Sawzall, a good handsaw (note--that's
_H_and, not _B_and--my eyes are getting bad enough that the words start to
look alike), if you already have one, and chisels would be the way to go.
If you don't have one, however, buying a _good_ handsaw unless you find one
on ebay or in a barn or something, is going to cost you darned near as much
as the Sawzall. Another option would be a bowsaw--with the right blade
that can do the entire cut in 4 or 5 steps.
>
> Thanks, Izak.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
> accommodate the post.
>
> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
> probably bog down in seconds? so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>
> Thanks, Izak.
Izak,
Every now and then, you have to get back to the basics. I think this
is such a time. Lay out the joints with a try square and pencil and
make the cuts with a handsaw. Knock out the waste chunk with a hammer
and clean it up with a chisel. It'll be good for you.
DonkeyHody
"Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him." - Thomas
Carlyle
On 8 Aug 2004 07:57:11 -0700, [email protected] (Izak) wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
>want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
>accommodate the post.
>
>I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
>circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
>probably bog down in seconds
so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>
>Thanks, Izak.
Three inches is too deep for that pocket.
You don't want to waste more than a third of the horizontal member.
If'n you want to do something that is both structurally sound and
really cool, make a dovetailed joint between the two.
I'd make this an inch and a half deep and this would allow you to use
a hand circular saw to do most of the work.
I'd make the bevel at somewheres between a four-to-one and a six-to
-one.
Make your bevel cuts first and then waste the remainder with vertical
cuts.
When you're done with that, treat yourself to a nice slick and clean
up the roughage.
I don't like trying to make these sorta things dead flush, so I'd
reduce the width of the vertical member and run a chamfer on the
horizontal member's mating surfaces. It'll look slicker'n'snot.
(btw - the good news about the dovetail is that it will work in
tension as well as in compression - this may not seem like much of a
concern until you get that pergola loaded with foliage and have it go
through a good windstorm - this may not be the case with your project
- but, then again, who knows?)
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Circular saw to make multiple cuts close together, then use a chisel
I would NOT try this on a table saw if the 6x6 is going to hang off
the table top by any significant degree
RAS would work as well
John
On 8 Aug 2004 07:57:11 -0700, [email protected] (Izak) wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
>want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
>accommodate the post.
>
>I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
>circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
>probably bog down in seconds
so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>
>Thanks, Izak.
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:11:06 -0500, "My Old Tools"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I would simply cut a 2"x6" tenon 6" long on the post end and a matching
>2"x6" mortise full depth in the beam. You can do the tenon with a handsaw
>and the mortise with a drill and a chisel.
I don't hold with this, and here's why.
You've described a through mortise and tenon and that exposes the
sucking endgrain of the tenon to the elements. Open joinery in this
situation is a mistake (IMHO). You've also interrupted the beam in
such a way as to create a potential for cracking and splitting along
the lines of the mortise.
An included joint would be my preference and I'll stand by the
dovetail, but would be open to a stubbed tenon that was pinned.
(and the pin could be a nice feature)
Regards,
Tom.
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
On 8 Aug 2004 07:57:11 -0700, [email protected] (Izak) calmly ranted:
>Hi,
>
>I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
>want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
>accommodate the post.
>
>I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
>circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
>probably bog down in seconds
so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
Sharpen up your 8tpi Disston, son. Finish up with a 2 or 2-1/2" slick.
It's really good cardiovascular exercise. DAMHIKT
-
Gently-used Firestone tires for sale at discount!
-----------
http://diversify.com Website Application Programming
Izak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
> want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
> accommodate the post.
>
> I have no tools to do such cuts. I have no band saw and the jigsaw and
> circular saw I have cannot cut as deep. I have a table saw that will
> probably bog down in seconds
so, how do you suggest I do these cuts?
>
> Thanks, Izak.
Don't you mean 5 1/2 by 5 1/2? (Just kidding)
Since your going all the way across, what you can do is make several saw
cuts (closely spaced) accross the pieces that will overlap and then
break them out with a chisel.
NJBrad
In article <[email protected]>,
Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:37:31 -0400, Tom Watson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >If'n you want to do something that is both structurally sound and
> >really cool, make a dovetailed joint between the two.
>
> I can see using one of those funky little Japanese cogged joints on
> the horizontal joint surface to hold it against twisting, but what's
> this dovetail for ? Where's the vertical tensile force coming from ?
Here's a beam sitting on three posts:
+-------------------------------------------------+
| |
+-------------------------------------------------+
+--+ +--+ +--+
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
With everything straight and new, the beam certainly only exerts
compressive forces on the ends of the posts. But, put the thing out in
the rain for a few years, and maybe the beam will warp a bit. Depending
on which way it warps, it'll either try to hump up the middle (putting
tension on the middle post), or pick up the ends (putting tension on the
end posts).
Alternatively, let a hurricane blow through and try to tear the roof
off. Building codes in areas prone to hurricanes require that roofs be
strapped down to prevent them from being lifted off in storms.
On 8 Aug 2004 07:57:11 -0700, [email protected] (Izak) wrote:
>I plan to build a Pergola that will be based on 6x6 posts and beams. I
>want the beam to have a 6" wide, 6" long and 3"deep "pocket" that will
>accommodate the post.
A handheld circular saw, biggest and chunkiest you can find. Saw
across the grain to mark out the edges, then saw more cuts to split it
into 3/8" sections. You can split these short-grain sections out with
a chisel.
You'll also want a square (like the Stanley roofing square) that can
be clamped onto a beam and is thick enough to give a firm and reliable
guide for the saw.
Then find a book on timber framing (like one of Sobon's) and do some
redesign. If you go for the simplest of designs in timber this size,
you'll get problems with joints opening up with movement. Commercial
pergolas are held together with steel strapping, but that's ugly.
I'd probably cut a stub tenon on the end of the post and a blind
mortice in the beam to locate them. Blind mortices are a nuisance to
cut, but it's more weatherproof - maybe in .il you don't need to
worry. To hide the end of the post (after the inevitable shrinkage of
the beam) I'd cut just a very shallow dado (maybe 3/4") across the
beam, probably with angled shoulders.
If you're doing a "three dimensional" pergola, not just an arch, then
look at Japanese framing and especially their multi-way joints.
European and America framing is based on making vertical flat frames
on the ground, then lifting them up and holding them apart with the
wallplates. A pergola looks better if made with an Eastern approach,
where the design is based more on horizontal layers.
You'll also want a drawknife for shaping and for final decorative
chamfering. If you use any diagonal braces, it's well worth the effort
to curve their outer edges, not just leave them straight.
.
Use treenails to pin any tenons, not metal fittings. The finished
effect is well worth it.
--
Smert' spamionam