Hi Gang,
Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a nice
50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some more
serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and another
to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify about
$5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox), a
Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at
this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black Walnut boards
that need planing.
My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to get
into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
Im open to other suggestions. Help me spend my money!
BadAndy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
Mon, Dec 3, 2007, 12:17pm [email protected] (Andy=A0H)
<snip> i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for
them at this moment. <snip>
You'd be surprised.
JOAT
Even Popeye didn't eat his spinach until he had to.
"Andy H" wrote:
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify
about
> $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox), a
> Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
<snip>
Don't let that money burn a hole in your pocket.
Buy as the need arises.
1) Invest in a good set of 10" saw blades(24T rip, 50T combo, & 80T
finish)
2) Build jigs.
Buy a couple of sheets of 9 ply(1/2") & 13 ply(3/4"), then build some
sleds, if you don't have them.
3) An 8" Dado set. It gets more use than you imagine.
4) A bench top planer. (there are work arounds for a jointer, but not
a planer).
5) A good ROS, I have a Bosch 3727 and wouldn't leave home without it.
6) A Fein Multimaster. The damn thing is VERY addictive.
7) A 3 HP router suitable for permanent table mounting.
8) Clamps, clamps, clamps.
Of all the things above, having material on hand to build a quick jig
will save your rear end more times than everything else above, IMHO.
Have fun.
Lew
--WebTV-Mail-20119-8248
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I have a small shop in my garage and I use a shop vac for my dust
collection and have adapters to hook up to different tools.I have two
routers,one for hand use and a more powerful one for the router table.I
like a router that has a soft start feature and variable speed control
and both bases for the one I use by hand.The more you use routers the
more uses you will find they can do.Buy or make your router table but
your fence needs multiple ajustments which are not available on all
products for sale.Use a dust collector on your fence,and make a small
cabinet for your table and you can put a dust port on it as well.Routers
produce a lot of dust but this method greatly reduces the mess.
--WebTV-Mail-20119-8248
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<html><audioscope bg color=black gain=0></html>
--WebTV-Mail-20119-8248--
"Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
>
> >> Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple days
> >> for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
> >
> > Exact opposite, IME.
> >
>
> The opposite actually makes more sense to me too. If you are only
> revealing the "fresh" cells on one face then they could expand more than
> the non planed face making an expensive potato chip.
>
> That sound right?
Actually, and IME, the newly planed cells eventually contract due to
drying/loss of moisture, causing that side of the board to become concave.
As far as the "plane one side only, let it rest before doing the other"
theory:
_Most_ of the time a planer is used in conjunction with a jointer, one
surface is "jointed" flat, and then the opposite surface is planed parallel
to the jointed surface and for thickness ...
... therefore, the operations usually following one another, that sorta
blows the "let it rest between planing sides" theory completely out of the
water. :)
Just my tuppence ... I do what I do because it works for me in my shop
environment, and in my climate. YMMV
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hi Gang,
> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a nice 50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some more serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small
> carts and another to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify about $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop
> Fox), a Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>
> Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
> i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black
> Walnut boards that need planing.
> My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to get into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
>
>
> Im open to other suggestions. Help me spend my money!
>
> BadAndy
I went for years with a jointer and not planer. Then I got a planer
and I don't know how I got along without it. It helps create
incredibly uniform material that's easy to square and build. It
also save a little money if you buy rough wood.
I don't know what you mean by "carts," but if you are doing any
curve work, you might consider a bandsaw as well.
I agree with others that a dust collector is a luxury since you are
not working in the house, where it might be a necessity.
S.
Jeff <[email protected]> wrote in
news:ebac18a1-1c97-41f1-a0d8-d103722328db@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 3, 2:45 pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, badandy001@gmaildotcom wrote:
>> >Thanks Jeff,
>> > I never even thought of a Air filter! Dont know much about
>> > them, my
>> >shop is 18 x 18 with a 12" ceiling, would an Airfilter get all of
>> >the suspended dust?
>>
>> No, it won't get all of it, but it will get a surprisingly high
>> portion of it. It's best to use a dust collector and air filter in
>> combination; the two together will get nearly everything.
>>
>
> I agree the combination will get nearly everything. My thought was
> that he could use a shop vac now for dust collection and couple that
> with an air filter to provide a safer environment.
>
> Jeff
>
>
The purchase of dust masks wouldn't be a bad one either. They can affect
some people's breathing, so make sure you get ones that you can use.
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
LRod wrote:
> I think I'd like to see a drill press in the mix. I've often referred
> to it as the most used tool in my shop.
>
I second the drill press motion. I use mine a lot, and just for
drilling holes. With the drill press the holes go straight up and down,
where as with a portable drill, they can go sidewises, cocked left,
right, fore, and aft.
You can also buy accessories to make your drill press cut mortises,
drum sand, disk sand, shape/rout, and sharpen. I don't have any of that
neat stuff (yet) but my drill press earns its keep just drilling plain
old holes.
My bench grinder gets a lot of use just keeping stuff sharp.
Was it me, I'd wait til I had a project that required a tool I don't
have and then go out and buy that one tool. That way you know the tool
is going to get some use. The world is full of wonderful tools and I'd
like to have every one of them in my shop. If I had the room and the
bucks, and bought them all, I'm sure a goodly number of 'em would just
collect dust, 'cause I seldom/never do projects that call for those tools.
--
David J. Starr
Blog: www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
*snip*
> 8) Clamps, clamps, clamps.
I've had good luck with HF C clamps. Might as well save some money and
buy several there.
> Of all the things above, having material on hand to build a quick jig
> will save your rear end more times than everything else above, IMHO.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
>
>
Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.
To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
On Dec 3, 1:07 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I bought a jointer in 1983. It is absolutely the least used tool in my
> shop. I could not get along with out a planer.
You're not the only person to make this claim. I'm the odd-ball. I use
my jointer all the time. If a board touches the table saw fence, I run
it through the jointer first.
> > The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it going to be
> > that helpful? Is there something more useful that I should get instead?
If the OP's worried about his health, I'd recommend an air-filter over
a dust collector. It's the small stuff that'll kill you, not the big
particles that collect on the floor. Plus, he probably already owns a
shop vac.
Jeff
On Dec 3, 12:17 pm, Andy H <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Gang,
> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a nice
> 50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some more
> serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and another
> to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify about
> $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox), a
> Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>
> Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
> i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at
> this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black Walnut boards
> that need planing.
> My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to get
> into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
>
> Im open to other suggestions. Help me spend my money!
>
> BadAndy
>
> --
> :: Clever Sig here ::
Hi Andy,
If you buy your wood finished 2 sides and straight lined you will
probably not need a planer or jointer to soon. As soon as need to edge
glue boards you really need a jointer. As soon as you buy wood rough
or need to thin a piece of wood down to less of a thickness you will
likely need a planer. But if you are to give your cabinetry work any
shape you will really need a band saw. Now there are work arounds to
all of these pieces of equipment but they are all going to slow down
your work. Larger pieces of equipment make the process go faster. You
have to decide how much you need to speed up each process.
The other part of this is when you start doing this stuff for money
the more of the money you keep for yourself the better off you will
be. If you are paying the mill to do most of the work it may or may
not be financially benefitting. Buying rough lumber and milling it
yourself for the original cost of the equipment and the cost of blades
and sharpening will likely pay you in the end. All of this is
dependent of how much work you do. The cost of the equipment is
amoritized over many jobs to justify the cost before it starts paying
you. So weigh these thoughts in relationship to the work you expect
you will do.
Roy
In article <[email protected]>, badandy001@gmaildotcom wrote:
>Phisherman wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm sure the boards dried 48+ years ago. Walnut dust is known to be a
>> hazard--buy a dust mask that has a good seal and a DC will be a wise
>> health investment.
>
>Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know Ill
>have a huge mess with the planer.
Yes, you will. IMO, you should re-think that plan.
> I do the best I can with a shop vac.
>I have a couple paper masks, Ill probably get a respirator when I start
>doing the planing.
Planers don't make too much dust (so a respirator isn't all that important),
but they sure make a lot of chips, and they'll go *everywhere*. If you're
planning to collect them as they're produced, with a hose connected to the
shop vac, I think you'll be disappointed in the results, as the planer will
produce shavings at a rate probably too fast for the shop vac to keep up. And
if you're planning to just sweep up afterward... I think you'll be
disappointed in the results there, too.
>
>Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple days
>for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
That's incorrect. You want to remove approximately the same amount from each
side at the same time, so that each side of the board has approximately the
same moisture content.
>
>Do I have to worry about this with wood this old?
Not if you do it the right way (same amount off each side, at the same time).
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Leon and I don't agree a lot and this is another one of those times.
Hey , hey, Hey!!!!!!! ;~)
I
> think the Forrest blade is the most overrated item in the woodworking
> market. I know there will be people wearing cassocks, and shoes with
> big buckles, who will be beating on my door for that heresy. The truth
> is, any of the premium blades (common name doesn't signify lesser
> quality), Freud, Systimatic, Amana, etc., will do a more than adequate
> job without the 20% premium in price.
Actually I have bought more Systematic blades between 1988 and 1999 than I
have Forrest baldes. I will agree that they do do a good job. Up until I
mounted a Forrest I thought the Systematic was a steal at $59. But like
many others I prefer the Forrest. I very very seldom have to do anything to
a cut edge before applying the finish. For me that is worth the difference
in price. And the price difference comes out closer to a 40% price
difference and or 66% more expensive.
>
> Similarly, with routers, what do you think the extra money in the
> Triton will get you that a more pedestrian router wouldn't?
You might want to take a look at the Triton prices. IIRC they are well over
$100 cheaper than they were 3 or 4 years ago. IIRC they may be on the cheap
end these days.
http://woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4519
Bill wrote:
>> I'd want a jointer, the table saw's companion.
>
> Please help me understand this (newbe here). If I rip a board along a fence
> on a table saw with a decent blade, I assume I'll end up with a pretty nice
> cut. Will the jointer give me something "extra"?
Yup!
The jointer will straighten the edge that goes against the TS fence, as
well as set the edge to a perfect angle referenced from a face. If the
edge riding against the TS fence has a curve, or the board has a bow or
crook, the edge you'll get off the blade will be less accurate.
Also, properly prepared stock is far less likely to kick back.
A jointer will also flatten a face.
"Renata" wrote
> -snip-
>
> Have you tried the Freud Glue-Line blade?
I have one, as well as three Forrest blades (WWII's and Chopmaster) and I do
like it. I use FGL mostly for ripping thick hardwood stock for making
panels.
Although I don't think the cut surface is any better, the Freud Glue-Line
Rip does rip thicker hardwood stock more effortlessly than the combination
Forrest WWII due to the set of the teeth.
I could live with either one, but if I have to do a lot of ripping I grab
the Freud.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)
You will end up with a "pretty nice" cut
"maybe" but it may or may not create a
straight board.
A table saw will only create a board with
equal distance between sides "if" one side
is straight and against the fence during the
cut.
Bill wrote:
>
> Please help me understand this (newbe here). If I rip a board along a fence
> on a table saw with a decent blade, I assume I'll end up with a pretty nice
> cut. Will the jointer give me something "extra"?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>
"Dave In Houston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Nothing like one for quickly cleaning up the shop; beats hell out of a
> shop vac. My 2HP JET has sucked up stuff I wish it hadn't (ie. the
> plastic push stick that came with the TS and once sucked the arbor washer
> from the TS. When that hit the impeller it split the housing. Had to buy
> another washer, too. Damnit.
That sucks. ;~) Mind got one of those clear plastic storage drawers. I'm
just waiting for the day I suck up the remote control.
In article <[email protected]>, badandy001@gmaildotcom wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>>> Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know Ill
>>> have a huge mess with the planer.
>>
>> Yes, you will. IMO, you should re-think that plan.
>>
>
>Well, Once SWMBO sees the huge mess, maybe then I can justify a Dust
>collector. I love it when a plan comes together!
>
>Without the planer I couldnt really justify a DC, So I bought the planer!
>Genius!
Ahh, I see you're a step ahead of me. Sounds like a good plan.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You will end up with a "pretty nice" cut
> "maybe" but it may or may not create a
> straight board.
>
> A table saw will only create a board with
> equal distance between sides "if" one side
> is straight and against the fence during the
> cut.
Thank you for your reply Pat. Barry's explanation explained how subtle
things could go wrong. I definitely did not realize how many factors came
into play. I may have to get by with my smoothing plane for a while...
>
>
> Bill wrote:
>
>>
>> Please help me understand this (newbe here). If I rip a board along a
>> fence on a table saw with a decent blade, I assume I'll end up with a
>> pretty nice cut. Will the jointer give me something "extra"?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
In article <[email protected]>, badandy001@gmaildotcom wrote:
>Jeff wrote:
>> On Dec 3, 1:07 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I bought a jointer in 1983. It is absolutely the least used tool in my
>>> shop. I could not get along with out a planer.
>>
>> You're not the only person to make this claim. I'm the odd-ball. I use
>> my jointer all the time. If a board touches the table saw fence, I run
>> it through the jointer first.
Same here. Sure, you can get along without one, but why? It makes life easier.
>>
>>>> The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it going to be
>>>> that helpful? Is there something more useful that I should get instead?
>>
>> If the OP's worried about his health, I'd recommend an air-filter over
>> a dust collector. It's the small stuff that'll kill you, not the big
>> particles that collect on the floor. Plus, he probably already owns a
>> shop vac.
>>
>> Jeff
>Thanks Jeff,
> I never even thought of a Air filter! Dont know much about them, my
>shop is 18 x 18 with a 12" ceiling, would an Airfilter get all of the
>suspended dust?
No, it won't get all of it, but it will get a surprisingly high portion of it.
It's best to use a dust collector and air filter in combination; the two
together will get nearly everything.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Andy H wrote:
> Hi Gang,
> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a
> nice 50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some
> more serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and
> another to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify
> about $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox),
> a Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>
I would put a good router at the top of the list followed by the dust
collector. In my shop the most used tools in order are roughly:
Dust collector (because I use it with everything)
Table saw
Router
Drill press
Band saw
Jointer
Planer
Forrest blades are indeed terrific, but there are some other excellent
saw blades which are slightly less costly.
Honestly I wouldn't want to do much woodworking without a pretty full
complement of equipment. I don't put many hours on the jointer and
planer, but I wouldn't want to try and work without flat and squared
stock. I've never seen store bought "S4S" stock which is actually flat
and square.
John
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Again, IMHO the dust collector is a luxury. I have been woodworking
> seriousely since 1978 and finally bought a dust collector last spring
> IIRC. I had to have it for a drum sander as at that point it becomes a
> necessity although I got the DC a year before the sander. My BS turns out
> an enormous amount of dust when resawing and I got the DC quickly after
> buying the
Nothing like one for quickly cleaning up the shop; beats hell out of a
shop vac. My 2HP JET has sucked up stuff I wish it hadn't (ie. the plastic
push stick that came with the TS and once sucked the arbor washer from the
TS. When that hit the impeller it split the housing. Had to buy another
washer, too. Damnit.
--
Dave in Houston
"Chip Buchholtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : Thank you for your reply Pat. Barry's explanation explained how subtle
> : things could go wrong. I definitely did not realize how many factors
> came
> : into play. I may have to get by with my smoothing plane for a while...
>
> You can joint an edge using a router in a router table, or a table
> saw.
>
> http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2005/01/28/wb/
>
> http://www.newwoodworker.com/tsjointjig.html
>
> http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rtrplnr.htm
>
> As far as I know you can't joint (flatten) a face without a jointer.
> I >think< I understand why you can't flatten a face on a planer, but I
> don't understand why they don't make planers that can also flatten a
> face.
>
With the proper jig, you absolutely can flatten a face with a planer.
>
> Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
> i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at
> this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black Walnut boards
> that need planing.
> My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to
> get into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
>
>
I am not offering any advice here, but merely asking a kind of follow-up
question. Several people have mentioned the planer and while not
necessarily recommending one they have talked about it usefulness. But
it seems to me that since Andy has mentioned things like cabinet work,
furniture, and blanket chests that one of those drum sanders could prove
to be very useful. I have not built large pieces like that, but I have
built smaller projects that made me think how sweet one of those things
could be. I also think that if I had a lot of good wood that needed to
"planed" that a drum sander would be preferred to a planer. especially
if the wood had some sort of figure that may chip out during planing.
The two negatives that I see to this are that the sanders are a tad
pricey and dust collection would not be an option. It is also more
money than Andy said he had to spend, but I'm sure his arm could be
twisted enough to stretch the old budget a little. :-)
Wayne
"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Have you tried the Freud Glue-Line blade?
No, no need to.
> Renata
>
>>
>
"Chip Buchholtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks, Leon.
>
> So I just make a flat, stiff, and parallel surface, attach the wood to
> be flattened to one side, and use shims so that the rollers don't flex
> the wood as it goes through. Then send that through the planer and
> the face opposite the jig becomes flat and parallel to the jig.
>
> Do I have it right?
You are very close Chip.
>
> What's a good way to fasten the work to the jig? Double sided tape?
Actually if you attach anti-slip sand paper to the wedges the wood stays in
place very well without being fastened down.
IIRC FWW had an article with plans on building that jig and I built one
myself. I can probably did up the plans in .pdf if you would like a copy.
I would be glad to e-mail you a copy.
I was able to flatten rough cut 4/4 oak 8-13" wide and 8' long with the jig
and my stationary planer. That would be pretty tough to do with most any
jointer unless you start getting into the 12" and larger jointers.
Keep in mind that the boards need to pretty straight and flat to be able to
joint a board that wide and long and have at leas 3/4 left when you are
done. If the board have much bow or warp you would be better off ripping
with a BS and or shortening the board to begin with to minimize the bow or
warp.
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:11:57 -0800, Jeff wrote:
>
> You beat me to it, Jeff.
>
> Leon, you can sweep the floor. Sweeping your lungs is not an option :-).
>
> I have a very small shop with no room for a dust collector. But one of
> the first things I built was a dust collector that hangs from the ceiling.
Well if you are in a confined area an air cleaner or collector is a must. I
have been able to use a 7' x16' door and a fan at my back to take care of
dust. ;~)
"Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>
> I am definitely getting the WWII, my questions is: Is there anything
> else that I am not thinking of that would be useful?
Yes, EVERYTHING! I have been doing this for 30 or so years and I still
need/want everything I see. ;~)
>
> I'd love a jointer but i want to wait until I can get a good one.
> Im afraid a planer would just sit there for quite a while.
I bought a jointer in 1983. It is absolutely the least used tool in my
shop. I could not get along with out a planer.
If you rough cut lumber is relatively flat you can run it through the planer
and be fine. Keep in mind that a plainer will not by itself flatten a
board. You can build a jig to flatten a board with a planer. I use a Jig
over using my jointer.
A Kreg pocket hole jig is very handy also.
What you buy next will be mosty dictated by what your projects are going to
be. You will be safe with the planer and or Kreg and you will certainly use
both quite often.
The plainer is very useful for resurfacing to a specific thickness, smooth
up resaw cuts and or making thiner stick.
>
> The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it going to be
> that helpful? Is there something more useful that I should get instead?
Again, IMHO the dust collector is a luxury. I have been woodworking
seriousely since 1978 and finally bought a dust collector last spring IIRC.
I had to have it for a drum sander as at that point it becomes a necessity
although I got the DC a year before the sander. My BS turns out an enormous
amount of dust when resawing and I got the DC quickly after buying the
Laguna BS.
>
> I purchased the 734. I dont think it has the fancy blower, but I dont
> know. Sounds cool though!
>
> Andy
I bought the Dewalt 733 a few years ago. I think the only difference
between it and the 734 is that the 734 uses three blades and mine only
has two. But having said that, I have tried using my shop vac with my
733 and it is a complete waste of time on boards wider than about shop
vac hose width (2 1/4"). The shroud that comes with the machine has the
4" fitting and I had to get a reducer to the shop vac. That reducer
clogs in about 3 seconds (or less) and then the chips all go . . .where
ever the hell they want. Now I have the additional task of cleaning out
the the reducer too.
Wayne
Bill wrote:
>>I'd want a jointer, the table saw's companion.
>
>
> Please help me understand this (newbe here). If I rip a board along a fence
> on a table saw with a decent blade, I assume I'll end up with a pretty nice
> cut. Will the jointer give me something "extra"?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>
A jointer will give you a straight edge to put against the fence to
start with. Ripping on the table saw will then give a uniform width.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On Dec 5, 10:39 am, Andy H <[email protected]> wrote:
> Phisherman wrote:
>
> > I'm sure the boards dried 48+ years ago. Walnut dust is known to be a
> > hazard--buy a dust mask that has a good seal and a DC will be a wise
> > health investment.
>
> Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know Ill
> have a huge mess with the planer. I do the best I can with a shop vac.
> I have a couple paper masks, Ill probably get a respirator when I start
> doing the planing.
>
> Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple days
> for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
>
> Do I have to worry about this with wood this old?
>
> thanks!
> Andy
> --
> :: Clever Sig here ::
Andy,
The Dewalt 735 has a blower in the chip chute and it will fire them a
long distance. You may want to get at least a 4" hose and direct into
a trash can. The blower is so strong that it inflates my dust
collector bags to the point of looking like it is on.
Dave
"Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Gang,
> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a nice 50"
> Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some more
> serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and another to
> do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify about
> $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox), a Triton
> 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
The dust collector will be a luxury that will not assist in actual building
of a project. Nice to have but will not get all of what your TS, RAS or
router put out. You are still going to have to clean up.
If your saw is properly set up I would go with the Blade improvement WWII
first.
On Dec 3, 2:45 pm, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, badandy001@gmaildotcom wrote:
> >Thanks Jeff,
> > I never even thought of a Air filter! Dont know much about them, my
> >shop is 18 x 18 with a 12" ceiling, would an Airfilter get all of the
> >suspended dust?
>
> No, it won't get all of it, but it will get a surprisingly high portion of it.
> It's best to use a dust collector and air filter in combination; the two
> together will get nearly everything.
>
I agree the combination will get nearly everything. My thought was
that he could use a shop vac now for dust collection and couple that
with an air filter to provide a safer environment.
Jeff
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> I'd want a jointer, the table saw's companion.
>
> Please help me understand this (newbe here). If I rip a board along a
> fence on a table saw with a decent blade, I assume I'll end up with a
> pretty nice cut. Will the jointer give me something "extra"?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
Only if the side next to the fence is straight. I have in fact ripped rough
wood that way (but the other edge was straight but rough). And, you can
make a sled to guide curved boards through the saw, or you can make a jig
for use with a router.
Otherwise, you run the risk of kickback. Kickback can be very hazardous to
your health.
Jim
Leon wrote:
> "Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Hi Gang,
>> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a nice 50"
>> Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
>> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some more
>> serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and another to
>> do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
>> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify about
>> $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox), a Triton
>> 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>
> The dust collector will be a luxury that will not assist in actual building
> of a project. Nice to have but will not get all of what your TS, RAS or
> router put out. You are still going to have to clean up.
>
> If your saw is properly set up I would go with the Blade improvement WWII
> first.
>
>
>
I am definitely getting the WWII, my questions is: Is there anything
else that I am not thinking of that would be useful?
I'd love a jointer but i want to wait until I can get a good one.
Im afraid a planer would just sit there for quite a while.
The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it going to be
that helpful? Is there something more useful that I should get instead?
thanks!
BadAndy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
LRod wrote:
> Snip
>
> Similarly, with routers, what do you think the extra money in the
> Triton will get you that a more pedestrian router wouldn't? For the
> money they get for it, you could have two routers with less glitz. I'm
> not demeaning the design, but if you do a lot of routing, quantity has
> a quality all its own. I'd rather have a couple or three P-C 690s for
> the convenience than one Triton (or, gasp, Festool). However, that's
> an oversimplification, and your routing needs surely aren't the same
> as my routing needs.
>
> I did woodworking for a lot of years without either a jointer or a
> planer, and I've had two of each since then. I can't really quantify
> how I'd rank them in importance of necessity.
>
> I think I'd like to see a drill press in the mix. I've often referred
> to it as the most used tool in my shop.
>
Thanks LRod,
I forgot to mention that I have a small Drill press. A 10" Delta. I
would like a larger one, 12" maybe?
The Triton Router is $199. I want to mount it into a table and I like
the fact that it comes with an edge guide. You think a PC 690 would be
better? And buy my own edge guide? The PC is smaller, but "only" 1-3/4 HP.
Im leaning toward a planer. As I said i have a bunch of Walnut and i
want to get into building nicer things. The planer could open that door
for me?
Keep the suggestions coming I appreciate every one! I think Ive ruled
out the DC. Not enough bang for my buck.
BadAndy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
Andy H wrote:
> Hi Gang,
> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a
> nice 50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some
> more serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and
> another to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify
> about $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox),
> a Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>
> Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
> i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at
> this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black Walnut boards
> that need planing.
> My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to
> get into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
>
>
> Im open to other suggestions. Help me spend my money!
I'd say hold onto your money until you really know what you _need_ to do
what you're trying to do, myself. (I know, like LRod, I'm up for the
heresy stake! :) ).
I agree w/ Leon for what it sounds like you have/intend, the DC early on
would seem to be a luxury that probably won't accomplish that much in
terms of what it can actually capture at the source which is their real
advantage.
OTOH, for what I typically do/way I've become accustomed to work, the
jointer is probably the secondmost used of the stationary tools behind
(barely) the tablesaw and planer. But, I reclaim a lot of old stuff
that isn't that flat often unlike Leon don't much care for the trouble
involved in trying to do that step w/ the planer.
I don't know what you're using for a blade on the TS now, but while I
agree the WWII is excellent, there are others less expensive. But, if
your heart is set on it, I won't say you would go wrong there as an
investment.
For the router, can't comment too much on Triton; never had opportunity
to see one even--been satisfied w/ the Hitachi and Makita I have (and I
can't think of models, undoubtedly they're now old enough to be out of
production anyway) but for most stuff I use the shaper rather than
router anyway unless it's smaller or need the plunge or the mobility of
working on fixed pieces.
But, as rare as it is in the rec, :) I really think when you know what
you need is the time to go shopping, not just when you have a whim. IOW,
start on your projects and see where you're stuck doing something the
hard way and then decide what it takes to solve that problem. You'll
probably be happier in the long run.
--
Jeff wrote:
> On Dec 3, 1:07 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I bought a jointer in 1983. It is absolutely the least used tool in my
>> shop. I could not get along with out a planer.
>
> You're not the only person to make this claim. I'm the odd-ball. I use
> my jointer all the time. If a board touches the table saw fence, I run
> it through the jointer first.
>
>
>>> The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it going to be
>>> that helpful? Is there something more useful that I should get instead?
>
> If the OP's worried about his health, I'd recommend an air-filter over
> a dust collector. It's the small stuff that'll kill you, not the big
> particles that collect on the floor. Plus, he probably already owns a
> shop vac.
>
> Jeff
Thanks Jeff,
I never even thought of a Air filter! Dont know much about them, my
shop is 18 x 18 with a 12" ceiling, would an Airfilter get all of the
suspended dust?
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
dpb wrote:
> Andy H wrote:
>> Hi Gang,
>> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a
>> nice 50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
>> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some
>> more serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and
>> another to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
>> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify
>> about $5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop
>> Fox), a Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>>
>> Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
>> i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at
>> this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black Walnut boards
>> that need planing.
>> My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to
>> get into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
>>
>> Im open to other suggestions. Help me spend my money!
>
> I'd say hold onto your money until you really know what you _need_ to do
> what you're trying to do, myself. (I know, like LRod, I'm up for the
> heresy stake! :) ).
I think that's the best piece of advice
I've seen on this topic.
When I started thinking about seriously
getting into the hobby, I set up a wish
list at a few stores, including Lee
Valley. It was tough with LV especially
because there were so many things in
their catalog I felt I needed and didn't
want a behemoth wish list. Even with my
pared down list, I found that as time
went on, the original "must haves" were
eliminated and replaced with other
things that looked more applicable to
the things I was doing and my skill
level, which changed my perspective
considerably.
In the last few years, I don't think
I've bought anything that I haven't
used, but each item has been on the list
for a long time, waiting for the real
"need:" for it and available cash.
>
<snip>
>
> But, as rare as it is in the rec, :) I really think when you know what
> you need is the time to go shopping, not just when you have a whim. IOW,
> start on your projects and see where you're stuck doing something the
> hard way and then decide what it takes to solve that problem. You'll
> probably be happier in the long run.
>
> --
--
Tanus
This is not really a sig.
http://www.home.mycybernet.net/~waugh/shop/
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:11:57 -0800, Jeff wrote:
>
>> On Dec 3, 1:07 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it going to be
>>>> that helpful? Is there something more useful that I should get instead?
>> If the OP's worried about his health, I'd recommend an air-filter over
>> a dust collector. It's the small stuff that'll kill you, not the big
>> particles that collect on the floor. Plus, he probably already owns a
>> shop vac.
>
> You beat me to it, Jeff.
>
> Leon, you can sweep the floor. Sweeping your lungs is not an option :-).
>
> I have a very small shop with no room for a dust collector. But one of
> the first things I built was a dust collector that hangs from the ceiling.
Hi Larry,
What did it cost you to build this air cleaner? Ive been looking at
building one of them for some time. Where do you get the squirrel cage
blower?
By the way, Im leaning toward a triton router, forrest blade, PC brad
nailer and Dewalt planer. I think these would all be put to use fairly
quickly.
Thanks,
BadAndy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
Lew Hodgett wrote:
Snip
>
> 4) A bench top planer. (there are work arounds for a jointer, but not
> a planer).
On the list
> 5) A good ROS, I have a Bosch 3727 and wouldn't leave home without it.
On the "later" list I have one, not too thrilled with it though
>
> 7) A 3 HP router suitable for permanent table mounting.
On the list (well a 2-1/4 HP anyway)
> 8) Clamps, clamps, clamps.
I have a couple, will buy as needed.
>
> Of all the things above, having material on hand to build a quick jig
> will save your rear end more times than everything else above, IMHO.
That is pretty good advice! There have been many times when I didnt
build something because I didnt have the materials on hand to make a jig.
>
> Have fun.
>
> Lew
>
>
Thanks so much for everyone's feedback!
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
Andy H wrote:
> Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:11:57 -0800, Jeff wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 3, 1:07 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it
>>>>> going to be that helpful? Is there something more useful that I
>>>>> should get instead?
>>> If the OP's worried about his health, I'd recommend an air-filter
>>> over a dust collector. It's the small stuff that'll kill you, not
>>> the big particles that collect on the floor. Plus, he probably
>>> already owns a shop vac.
>>
>> You beat me to it, Jeff.
>>
>> Leon, you can sweep the floor. Sweeping your lungs is not an
>> option
>> :-).
>>
>> I have a very small shop with no room for a dust collector. But
>> one
>> of the first things I built was a dust collector that hangs from
>> the
>> ceiling.
> Hi Larry,
> What did it cost you to build this air cleaner? Ive been looking at
> building one of them for some time. Where do you get the squirrel
> cage blower?
You might want to take a look at the Ridgid AF2100. 250 cfm for a
hundred bucks. While they tend to be denigrated by some of the tool
snobs and Borg-bashers, Ridgid stationary tools are actually pretty
decent performers for the most part. Replacement filters can be
ordered direct from Ridgid for about 32 bucks for the set of 2.
> By the way, Im leaning toward a triton router, forrest blade, PC
> brad
> nailer and Dewalt planer. I think these would all be put to use
> fairly quickly.
>
> Thanks,
> BadAndy
>>> Clever Sig here ::
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
: Thank you for your reply Pat. Barry's explanation explained how subtle
: things could go wrong. I definitely did not realize how many factors came
: into play. I may have to get by with my smoothing plane for a while...
You can joint an edge using a router in a router table, or a table
saw.
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2005/01/28/wb/
http://www.newwoodworker.com/tsjointjig.html
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rtrplnr.htm
As far as I know you can't joint (flatten) a face without a jointer.
I >think< I understand why you can't flatten a face on a planer, but I
don't understand why they don't make planers that can also flatten a
face.
______________________
XXXX _____________________
XXXXXX
XXXXXX <--- cutter
XXXX
(I'm very grateful to the experienced and knowledgable people in this
group who take the time to explain things to newbies like me.)
--- Chip
Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
: "Chip Buchholtz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: > As far as I know you can't joint (flatten) a face without a jointer.
: > I >think< I understand why you can't flatten a face on a planer, but I
: > don't understand why they don't make planers that can also flatten a
: > face.
: With the proper jig, you absolutely can flatten a face with a planer.
Thanks, Leon.
So I just make a flat, stiff, and parallel surface, attach the wood to
be flattened to one side, and use shims so that the rollers don't flex
the wood as it goes through. Then send that through the planer and
the face opposite the jig becomes flat and parallel to the jig.
Do I have it right?
What's a good way to fasten the work to the jig? Double sided tape?
Thanks again,
--- Chip
Chip Buchholtz wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your reply Pat. Barry's explanation explained how
>> subtle things could go wrong. I definitely did not realize how many
>> factors came into play. I may have to get by with my smoothing
>> plane for a while...
>
> You can joint an edge using a router in a router table, or a table
> saw.
>
> http://www.woodworkingtips.com/etips/2005/01/28/wb/
>
> http://www.newwoodworker.com/tsjointjig.html
>
> http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rtrplnr.htm
>
> As far as I know you can't joint (flatten) a face without a jointer.
> I >think< I understand why you can't flatten a face on a planer, but
> I
> don't understand why they don't make planers that can also flatten a
> face.
Actually you can flatten a face with a planer, you just need to
support the stock on a sled that is stiff enough to keep it from
flexing and that doesn't let it flatten out.
And they do make planers that can also joint--the trouble is that they
need to have beds as long as any other jointer in order to do it
effectively, and to do it full width they need to have beds like
jointers of that width and that means a big, heavy, expensive tool.
There's more than one solution to any problem, but the purpose-made
tool is usually the most convenient.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
: IIRC FWW had an article with plans on building that jig and I built one
: myself. I can probably did up the plans in .pdf if you would like a copy.
Thanks, but I'm mostly just curious and saving up ideas for later. I
don't have an immediate need. I'm thinking that I'll buy a planer
before a jointer, when I have an immediate need.
: I was able to flatten rough cut 4/4 oak 8-13" wide and 8' long with the jig
: and my stationary planer. That would be pretty tough to do with most any
: jointer unless you start getting into the 12" and larger jointers.
: Keep in mind that the boards need to pretty straight and flat to be able to
: joint a board that wide and long and have at leas 3/4 left when you are
: done. If the board have much bow or warp you would be better off ripping
: with a BS and or shortening the board to begin with to minimize the bow or
: warp.
Great info - thanks!
--- Chip
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:43:29 -0500, Andy H wrote:
>
>> Hi Larry,
>> What did it cost you to build this air cleaner? Ive been looking at
>> building one of them for some time. Where do you get the squirrel cage
>> blower?
>
> Not much. The box was made from some plywood I already had. I got the
> squirrel cage blower from American Science and Surplus but I can't
> remember the cost - something under $20 is my best guess. I use one
> ordinary fiberglass furnace filter (16x20) backed up with an allergy
> filter. When they get dirty I vacuum them. Every 3 or 4 years I replace
> them.
>
> But I don't get out in the shop as much as some, and I don't run the air
> cleaner when using hand tools. Maybe 4-6 hours a week.
>
WOW, $20! I need to go shopping
thanks Larry!
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
ROYNEU wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> If you buy your wood finished 2 sides and straight lined you will
> probably not need a planer or jointer to soon.
<Snip>
>
> Roy
Thanks Roy,
Maybe I forgot to mention that my dad has a stockpile of rough black
walnut boards that has been drying for 50+ years. All I have to do is
make one cool thing and I can get the rest. The planer might pay for it
self just doing that alone.
I hope that the Forrest blade and a jig will help me joint these
boards. Thats my plan. I placed the order last night for the Dewalt
Planer, Forrest WWII, Triton Router, Kreg Pocket Rocket, and the PC 3
nailer kit. Im more than a little excited! Its gonna be an early
Christmas for me!
BadAndy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
Phisherman wrote:
>
> I'm sure the boards dried 48+ years ago. Walnut dust is known to be a
> hazard--buy a dust mask that has a good seal and a DC will be a wise
> health investment.
Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know Ill
have a huge mess with the planer. I do the best I can with a shop vac.
I have a couple paper masks, Ill probably get a respirator when I start
doing the planing.
Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple days
for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
Do I have to worry about this with wood this old?
thanks!
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
Andy H wrote:
> Phisherman wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm sure the boards dried 48+ years ago. Walnut dust is known to
>> be
>> a hazard--buy a dust mask that has a good seal and a DC will be a
>> wise health investment.
>
> Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know
> Ill have a huge mess with the planer. I do the best I can with a
> shop vac. I have a couple paper masks, Ill probably get a respirator
> when I start doing the planing.
>
> Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple
> days for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
>
> Do I have to worry about this with wood this old?
If you're taking about the same amount off each side and just enough
to clean it up then I wouldn't worry about it. If you're taking a
heavy cut on one side to reduce the thickness significantly then yeah,
it's a good idea to let it rest for a bit after planing--the moisture
content doesn't react instantly to humidity changes, so there will
likely be a gradient across the thickness. Not much of one but enough
to possibly cause a little bit of cupping.
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Swingman wrote:
>> Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple days
>> for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
>
> Exact opposite, IME.
>
The opposite actually makes more sense to me too. If you are only
revealing the "fresh" cells on one face then they could expand more than
the non planed face making an expensive potato chip.
That sound right?
thanks for your input.
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
J. Clarke wrote:
> Andy H wrote:
>> Phisherman wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure the boards dried 48+ years ago. Walnut dust is known to
>>> be
>>> a hazard--buy a dust mask that has a good seal and a DC will be a
>>> wise health investment.
>> Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know
>> Ill have a huge mess with the planer. I do the best I can with a
>> shop vac. I have a couple paper masks, Ill probably get a respirator
>> when I start doing the planing.
>>
>> Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple
>> days for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
>>
>> Do I have to worry about this with wood this old?
>
> If you're taking about the same amount off each side and just enough
> to clean it up then I wouldn't worry about it. If you're taking a
> heavy cut on one side to reduce the thickness significantly then yeah,
> it's a good idea to let it rest for a bit after planing--the moisture
> content doesn't react instantly to humidity changes, so there will
> likely be a gradient across the thickness. Not much of one but enough
> to possibly cause a little bit of cupping.
>
Even on 50+ year old wood? I dont have a meter but its pretty dry. Its
was cut about an inch thick I suppose. Now its closer to 3/4.
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
Doug Miller wrote:
>> Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know Ill
>> have a huge mess with the planer.
>
> Yes, you will. IMO, you should re-think that plan.
>
Well, Once SWMBO sees the huge mess, maybe then I can justify a Dust
collector. I love it when a plan comes together!
Without the planer I couldnt really justify a DC, So I bought the planer!
Genius!
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
DLB wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> The Dewalt 735 has a blower in the chip chute and it will fire them a
> long distance. You may want to get at least a 4" hose and direct into
> a trash can. The blower is so strong that it inflates my dust
> collector bags to the point of looking like it is on.
>
> Dave
I purchased the 734. I dont think it has the fancy blower, but I dont
know. Sounds cool though!
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
NoOne N Particular wrote:
>
>>
>> I purchased the 734. I dont think it has the fancy blower, but I dont
>> know. Sounds cool though!
>>
>> Andy
>
> I bought the Dewalt 733 a few years ago. I think the only difference
> between it and the 734 is that the 734 uses three blades and mine only
> has two. But having said that, I have tried using my shop vac with my
> 733 and it is a complete waste of time on boards wider than about shop
> vac hose width (2 1/4"). The shroud that comes with the machine has the
> 4" fitting and I had to get a reducer to the shop vac. That reducer
> clogs in about 3 seconds (or less) and then the chips all go . . .where
> ever the hell they want. Now I have the additional task of cleaning out
> the the reducer too.
>
> Wayne
So your saying dont bother with the shop vac? Just sweep up afterwards.
Ill be squirreling away pennies for my DC.
Thanks
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::
On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:10:33 -0500, Andy H <[email protected]>
wrote:
>ROYNEU wrote:
>> Hi Andy,
>>
>> If you buy your wood finished 2 sides and straight lined you will
>> probably not need a planer or jointer to soon.
>
><Snip>
>>
>> Roy
>Thanks Roy,
> Maybe I forgot to mention that my dad has a stockpile of rough black
>walnut boards that has been drying for 50+ years. All I have to do is
>make one cool thing and I can get the rest. The planer might pay for it
>self just doing that alone.
> I hope that the Forrest blade and a jig will help me joint these
>boards. Thats my plan. I placed the order last night for the Dewalt
>Planer, Forrest WWII, Triton Router, Kreg Pocket Rocket, and the PC 3
>nailer kit. Im more than a little excited! Its gonna be an early
>Christmas for me!
>
>BadAndy
I'm sure the boards dried 48+ years ago. Walnut dust is known to be a
hazard--buy a dust mask that has a good seal and a DC will be a wise
health investment.
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 11:09:13 -0600, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Have you tried the Freud Glue-Line blade?
>
>No, no need to.
Except half the $.
Renata
>
>
>> Renata
>>
>>>
>>
>
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Andy H" wrote:
>
>> So your saying dont bother with the shop vac? Just sweep up
> afterwards.
>> Ill be squirreling away pennies for my DC.
>
> A push broom, a flat blade shovel, and a couple of 30 gal garbage cans
> takes care of my 733 very nicely.
>
> Lew
>
>
In my experience, if I am planing boards wider that about 2 1/2" in
width then yes, the shop vac is a COMPLETE waste of time. However, I
have found that a garage-blower-outter (aka leaf blower) does a fine and
quick job of removing the shavings from my garage. :-) (Or a foxtail,
push broom, large dust pan, and 30 gal garbage can does just fine too.)
Wayne
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:17:45 -0500, Andy H <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi Gang,
> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a nice
>50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some more
>serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and another
>to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify about
>$5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox), a
>Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>
> Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
>i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at
>this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black Walnut boards
>that need planing.
> My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to get
>into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
>
>
>Im open to other suggestions. Help me spend my money!
>
>BadAndy
I'd want a jointer, the table saw's companion.
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:17:45 -0500, Andy H <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hi Gang,
> Heres some background. I work in my garage(SHOP!!) and I have a nice
>50" Jet TS and an old Dewalt RAS and crappy ryobi router.
> Lately I have had delusions of grandeur, thinking about doing some more
>serious side work. I have a commission to do 7 small carts and another
>to do an entertainment center. These are from the same client.
> I am in a position to invest in the shop a bit and I can justify about
>$5-$600. Im thinking of getting a 2hp Dust collector (Shop Fox), a
>Triton 2-1/4 HP Router, and a forrest WWII blade.
>
> Im getting a PC nailer set out of what I make for these 7 carts.
>i dont have a jointer or planer but I dont have much need for them at
>this moment. Althought I do have a bunch of raw Black Walnut boards
>that need planing.
> My work is pretty varied. A bunch of cabinet stuff, but I want to get
>into some fine blanket chests, furniture n stuff.
Leon and I don't agree a lot and this is another one of those times. I
think the Forrest blade is the most overrated item in the woodworking
market. I know there will be people wearing cassocks, and shoes with
big buckles, who will be beating on my door for that heresy. The truth
is, any of the premium blades (common name doesn't signify lesser
quality), Freud, Systimatic, Amana, etc., will do a more than adequate
job without the 20% premium in price.
Similarly, with routers, what do you think the extra money in the
Triton will get you that a more pedestrian router wouldn't? For the
money they get for it, you could have two routers with less glitz. I'm
not demeaning the design, but if you do a lot of routing, quantity has
a quality all its own. I'd rather have a couple or three P-C 690s for
the convenience than one Triton (or, gasp, Festool). However, that's
an oversimplification, and your routing needs surely aren't the same
as my routing needs.
I did woodworking for a lot of years without either a jointer or a
planer, and I've had two of each since then. I can't really quantify
how I'd rank them in importance of necessity.
I think I'd like to see a drill press in the mix. I've often referred
to it as the most used tool in my shop.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
http://www.normstools.com
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> I'd want a jointer, the table saw's companion.
>
> Please help me understand this (newbe here). If I rip a board along a
> fence on a table saw with a decent blade, I assume I'll end up with a
> pretty nice cut. Will the jointer give me something "extra"?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>As Jim and Jack have pointed out, the jointer is to prepare the stock to be
>cut on the TS or to go through the planer. If you buy straight stock to
>begin with there is really no need for a jointer. I built a jig for
>straightening 8' long boards in a single pass on the TS.
On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:11:57 -0800, Jeff wrote:
> On Dec 3, 1:07 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
>> > The dust collector is the thing thats got me puzzled. Is it going to be
>> > that helpful? Is there something more useful that I should get instead?
>
> If the OP's worried about his health, I'd recommend an air-filter over
> a dust collector. It's the small stuff that'll kill you, not the big
> particles that collect on the floor. Plus, he probably already owns a
> shop vac.
You beat me to it, Jeff.
Leon, you can sweep the floor. Sweeping your lungs is not an option :-).
I have a very small shop with no room for a dust collector. But one of
the first things I built was a dust collector that hangs from the ceiling.
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:43:29 -0500, Andy H wrote:
> Hi Larry,
> What did it cost you to build this air cleaner? Ive been looking at
> building one of them for some time. Where do you get the squirrel cage
> blower?
Not much. The box was made from some plywood I already had. I got the
squirrel cage blower from American Science and Surplus but I can't
remember the cost - something under $20 is my best guess. I use one
ordinary fiberglass furnace filter (16x20) backed up with an allergy
filter. When they get dirty I vacuum them. Every 3 or 4 years I replace
them.
But I don't get out in the shop as much as some, and I don't run the air
cleaner when using hand tools. Maybe 4-6 hours a week.
"ROYNEU" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7b02d771-dd64-4a9c-9b39-ba09af092c38@w34g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> If you buy your wood finished 2 sides and straight lined you will
> probably not need a planer or jointer to soon. As soon as need to edge
> glue boards you really need a jointer.
Actually if you have a straight piece of plywood to use as a reference you
can straighten rough cut boards on a TS plenty good enough for glueing the
edges.
I typically don't use the jointer at all as I find that for larger boards
the jointer is overwhelmed. I can much more easily flatten a 10" wide and
8' long board with a jig and my stationary planer and much more quickly and
easily straighten boards edges with the TS and my jig.
Snip
>
> The other part of this is when you start doing this stuff for money
> the more of the money you keep for yourself the better off you will
> be. If you are paying the mill to do most of the work it may or may
> not be financially benefitting.
IMHO and my experience with probably 85% of my work being for pay I find
that buying S4S is more expensive but not as expensive as my time.
Basically I would rather pay the mill and extra $200 than spend the day
millng rough cut or S2S myself. If I do the milling it costs me between
$200 and $320 per day. If I am building something for myself I am more
likely to do the milling myself.
I am not being contrary to prove you wrong, just adding another point of
view. Your view is certainly valid.
On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:05:17 -0600, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Leon and I don't agree a lot and this is another one of those times.
>
>Hey , hey, Hey!!!!!!! ;~)
>
>
>I
>> think the Forrest blade is the most overrated item in the woodworking
>> market. I know there will be people wearing cassocks, and shoes with
>> big buckles, who will be beating on my door for that heresy. The truth
>> is, any of the premium blades (common name doesn't signify lesser
>> quality), Freud, Systimatic, Amana, etc., will do a more than adequate
>> job without the 20% premium in price.
>
>Actually I have bought more Systematic blades between 1988 and 1999 than I
>have Forrest baldes. I will agree that they do do a good job. Up until I
>mounted a Forrest I thought the Systematic was a steal at $59. But like
>many others I prefer the Forrest. I very very seldom have to do anything to
>a cut edge before applying the finish. For me that is worth the difference
>in price. And the price difference comes out closer to a 40% price
>difference and or 66% more expensive.
>
>>
-snip-
Have you tried the Freud Glue-Line blade?
Renata
>
"NoOne N Particular" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
> I am not offering any advice here, but merely asking a kind of follow-up
> question. Several people have mentioned the planer and while not
> necessarily recommending one they have talked about it usefulness. But it
> seems to me that since Andy has mentioned things like cabinet work,
> furniture, and blanket chests that one of those drum sanders could prove
> to be very useful. I have not built large pieces like that, but I have
> built smaller projects that made me think how sweet one of those things
> could be. I also think that if I had a lot of good wood that needed to
> "planed" that a drum sander would be preferred to a planer. especially if
> the wood had some sort of figure that may chip out during planing.
>
> The two negatives that I see to this are that the sanders are a tad pricey
> and dust collection would not be an option. It is also more money than
> Andy said he had to spend, but I'm sure his arm could be twisted enough to
> stretch the old budget a little. :-)
>
> Wayne
>
Good observation however for general planing the drum sander is going to be
way expensive as the sand paper will not last as long as the knives will
stay sharp. The sander will be very slow by comparison and many many
passes are necessary to remove typical amounts of wood and the passes are
about half the speed when going fast, as a planer goes on slow. That said,
a drum sander is a great tool to use after the planer for reasons you have
mentioned about tear out and if you make a lot of your own veneer.
As you pointed out, the drum sanders are pricey but about the same price as
a similar sized planer. My 22/44 sander was about the same price as my 15
stationary Delta planer.
Unless I was working strictly with small stock for small projects I would
not consider a drum sander over a planer.
"Andy H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> Thanks LRod,
> I forgot to mention that I have a small Drill press. A 10" Delta. I
> would like a larger one, 12" maybe?
>
Well to throw in my 2 cents again. ;~) My Rockwell DP is the oldest tool
in my shop. I got it in 1979 IIRC.
Anyway, you may not get too much for your money going from a 10 to 12".
Consider also, a Radial Arm Drill Press. Mine is a 36" bench top model that
will let you swing the head left to right, tilt the head 90 degrees left or
right and typically is cheaper than the full stand up height versions. The
head will extend well past the table or bench if you need the extra height
capicity. One draw back is that you typically only have 4 speeds but with
that in mind I very seldom take mine off of the slowest speed setting.
"Andy H" wrote
> Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know Ill
> have a huge mess with the planer. I do the best I can with a shop vac.
> I have a couple paper masks,
Planer's don't usually make lots of "dust", they make more chip sized
particles, so unless you have health/alergy problems already, the paper
masks will most likely be fine, and a respirator overkill.
No shop vac I know of will keep up with most planers with a medium cut, but
if you make light cuts you can certainly keep the cleanup time down with
one.
> Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple days
> for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
Exact opposite, IME.
> Do I have to worry about this with wood this old?
I always make at least one planing pass on both sides ... different strokes.
Fact: freshly planed wood really needs to be stored where the air
circulation is the same on both sides, otherwise you will likely wake up to
bowed wood the next morning.
While it is not necessary to "stack and sticker", some do so.
What I do ( and what most hardwood lumber yards do with "SxS" stock) is to
store the freshly planed boards on end, as vertically upright as possible,
with a support point (in the shop, a shelf edge, cabinet top etc.) about mid
way or higher, so that air can circulate to both sides while its waiting to
be used.
Then again, not all wood, even of the same species, will act the same way
(mainly due to the way it was cut from the log, or from internal stresses
when growing that are released when cut).
No matter the precautions, it's always a crap shoot, and why you should
always order at least 20% more project stock than you need, or more.
YMMV ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/30/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)