Hi All,
My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
door.
I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
TIA for any opinions.
Mike
"Greg Millen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1097924395.BossotZwdFww5yYSKazEeA@teranews...
> trolley, whilst doing so my face shield came off.
"whilst"???
Showing off that edukashun again? :)
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike:
>>Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>
> No.
>
> UA100
Acktually, I disagree. Once upon a time I needed to weld an axle back on a
trolley, whilst doing so my face shield came off.
Trust me on this - too much light is not a good thing.
--
Greg
This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
"neighbour" and "aluminium".
We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.
Give us time and we'll manage to bastardise the language almost as well as
you <g>.
--
Greg
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Greg Millen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1097924395.BossotZwdFww5yYSKazEeA@teranews...
>
>> trolley, whilst doing so my face shield came off.
>
> "whilst"???
>
> Showing off that edukashun again? :)
>
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
It does not sound like enough to me!
In my 24 x 38 foot shop I have 24 4" floresants, 6 100 watt incandesants,
and two 300 halogen fixtures. When I get serious they are all on!
Greg
In article <[email protected]>, Mike
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
If you need to wear an SPF 30 sunblock, you might have too much light
in the shop.
If your electrical utility calls and asks you to go in and watch TV for
a while so the steel fabrication shop down the highway can get some
welding done, you might have too much light in the shop.
If the neighbors are complaining about the glare, and it's noon on a
sunny July day, you might have too much light in the shop.
If you can hear the fluttering of the moths while using your shaper,
you might have too much light in the shop.
If you find you're really comfortable wearing welders' goggles while
turning pens on your Jet Mini, you might have too much light in the
shop.
...
In article <[email protected]>, Luigi Zanasi
<[email protected]> wrote:
> If the Mounties raid your shop thinking it's a marijuana grow
> operation, you might have too much light in the shop.
Wasn't that the EPA and an oak-fuming op?
;-)
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:45:05 -0400, "Gary" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Hi All,
>>
>> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
>> with 10
>> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
>> overhead
>> door.
>>
>> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
>> lamp HO
>> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
>> electrician
>> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
>> shop?
>>
>> TIA for any opinions.
>>
>> Mike
>
>My electrician's rule of thumb is a double fluorescent light covers a space
>6 feet to each side, so I think six would be adequate if you ran two rows
>parallel to the 25' wall, 6 and 1/2 feet from the walls and 12 feet apart.
>He install 4 double eight footers in my shop of 20'X24' and it is quite
>adequate. The rest of the building, a 28X36 foot garage has 3 rows of 3
>eight foot lights.
>He installed cold start ballasts which is a very good thing in an unheated
>building, but they are very noisy as heck, which is a very bad thing. The
>hum drives me nuts!
Are they hanging on chains or mounted to the ceiling? I've got some
of each, and I found that the ones on chains hum a whole lot more than
the ones attached to something solid.
>Gary
>
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>
>
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
I wasn't sure so I called the Utility Company.
They said "No."
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
Actually, yes, but it is hard to do.
Excess is when it is too bright for comfort or worse, glare. I'd put the
lights on multiple switches.
IMO, light in the areas away from where you are working should be soft but
the light right where you are should be bright and as shadow free as
possible. Daylight lamps are better also, but they do cost more.
Ed
Mike wrote:
<snip>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
In my opinion you can't have too much light. One thing I'd suggest it to use a
combination of fluorescent and incandescent lights to give a more natural lighting.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Good advise.
Dave
> More is good, but then I'm approaching middle aged coot. The idea of
> multiple switches (2+) is a good one. You might also consider doubling up
> the fixtures and going 4' tubes, fewer shadows, easier transport, etc.
> Also
> watch out for the colour temperature with fluorescents, they can do nasty
> things to appearance of your finishes. Get full spectrum (daylight) bulbs
> with a colour temp of 6500K. Also check the Colour Rendering Index of the
> bulbs you buy, good ones are over 90, acceptable over 80.
>
>
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 15:27:11 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
>> We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
>> than to buy new ones.
>
>
>Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. <G>
I don't remember exactly which regulation we have to adhere to, but it's one of
those ISO yada yada
government-mandated-if-you-want-work-you-gotta-follow-our-rules things.
ISO14000, ISO14001...whatever.
The lamps are on 24/6 and every week there's a new crop of dead tubes in the
storage rack. The guy that comes to pick them up always has a
cat-that-ate-the-canary look on his face, plus the electricians, who are under
contract to us have bought new trucks the past three years.
I'm in the wrong line of work - :)
Tom Flyer
I have a 20x22 shop and have 8- 4' fixtures controlled by two
switches. I ran 110 plugs in the ceiling and plug two in each. I ahve
enough light with no shadows. I have additional light at the TS, BS
and SCMS.
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>door.
>
>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>TIA for any opinions.
>
>Mike
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:57:06 GMT, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>If you need sunglasses, there's too much light.
>;-)
What about tinted safety glasses?
>On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>>door.
>>
>>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>>
>>TIA for any opinions.
>>
>>Mike
In article <[email protected]>,
Greg Millen <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
>> In article ,
>> Greg Millen wrote:
>>>This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
>>>"neighbour" and "aluminium".
>>>
>>>We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
>>>lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.
>>>
>>>Give us time and we'll manage to bastardise the language almost as well as
>>>you <g>.
>>>
>>
>> As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda
>
>
>As in Mulga Bill, another of Paterson's fare:
>
>http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/mulgab.html
Ah. I knew some of those works, didn't know the author.
I really want to find somebody that speaks fluent jabberwocky. Not the
(in)famous poem, but the Aussie rhyming slang.
>I think we'll have to admit defeat if you trundle ebonics into the fray
>though.
>
Obviously, you're not familiar with the dialectizer.
<http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/>
Use several of the translations in series -- e.g. a "jive-speaking Cockney
Swedish Chef" -- and things get *incredibly* obfuscated.
In article <1097998638.cmYh3z+dpghacVhUsouM9w@teranews>,
Greg Millen <[email protected]> wrote:
>This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
>"neighbour" and "aluminium".
>
>We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
>lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.
>
>Give us time and we'll manage to bastardise the language almost as well as
>you <g>.
>
As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda
In article <KjPcd.2909$WN5.1650@trndny08>,
U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:53:05 +0000, Robert Bonomi
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> In article <1097998638.cmYh3z+dpghacVhUsouM9w@teranews>,
>> Greg Millen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
>>>"neighbour" and "aluminium".
>>>
>>>We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
>>>lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.
>>>
>>>Give us time and we'll manage to bastardise the language almost as well as
>>>you <g>.
>>>
>>
>> As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda
>>
>
>You know you can sing Ave Maria to the tune of Waltzing Matilda?
>
My taste in music isn't quite _that_ catholic.
Now, "Harvey and Sheila", on the other hand....
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>door.
>
>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>TIA for any opinions.
>
>Mike
I like a lot of light.. and as stated, the need seems to increase with
age.. *g*
I still don't have enough light in my shop, but I have each fixture on
an "inline" switch... when I hit the master light switch, whichever
fixtures I had on the last time light..
Mostly because I'm cheap, I guess... if I'm spending a few minutes in
the shop I don't want to fire up 10 4' tubes..
Also, if I'm at one end of the shop (2 car garage) I might only need
the lights at that end, or maybe just the one over the bench..
if you have 8- 8' double tube fixtures, I'd recommend at LEAST 2
switches... department store style, where you can fire up every other
one for "low light"..
A factor that influences MY decisions on this stuff is that being in
California, or electricity is way over priced and I try to conserve
anywhere I can..
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:05:14 GMT, patrick conroy
<[email protected]> calmly ranted:
>On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>
>>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>I wasn't sure so I called the Utility Company.
>They said "No."
So in his case, the future's so bright, he's gotta wear shades?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A PSYCHOLOGIST looks at everyone -else- || http://www.diversify.com
when an attractive woman enters the room. || Full Website Programming
On 17 Oct 2004 21:46:31 -0700, [email protected] (Dan Cullimore)
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
>kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.
Why? No bastard ever did it for you! Look at the mess we are headed
into already! Except Ralph Nader and his ilk, and see what most people
think of _them_.
*****************************************************
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????
Prometheus wrote:
> Are they hanging on chains or mounted to the ceiling? I've got some
> of each, and I found that the ones on chains hum a whole lot more than
> the ones attached to something solid.
Mine are hanging on chains. They only hum when they're first turned on and
continue to hum for a while if it's really cold out there. Once they've warmed
up, the hum goes away. Truthfully, I'm only aware of the hum when I first turn
them on in the winter months.
Trust me, my lights are as cheap as they come: double four foot fixtures for
about $7.50 each. Plenty bright if you get enough of them.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 10:53:05 +0000, Robert Bonomi
<[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <1097998638.cmYh3z+dpghacVhUsouM9w@teranews>,
> Greg Millen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
>>"neighbour" and "aluminium".
>>
>>We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
>>lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.
>>
>>Give us time and we'll manage to bastardise the language almost as well as
>>you <g>.
>>
>
> As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda
>
You know you can sing Ave Maria to the tune of Waltzing Matilda?
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
More is good, but then I'm approaching middle aged coot. The idea of
multiple switches (2+) is a good one. You might also consider doubling up
the fixtures and going 4' tubes, fewer shadows, easier transport, etc. Also
watch out for the colour temperature with fluorescents, they can do nasty
things to appearance of your finishes. Get full spectrum (daylight) bulbs
with a colour temp of 6500K. Also check the Colour Rendering Index of the
bulbs you buy, good ones are over 90, acceptable over 80.
We do and will continue to do so.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:nJbcd.10054$>
> I'm not up to date on the new regulations, but there are regulations for
> disposal. The lamps contain heavy metal and should not just be trashed.
> http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste/id/merc-emi/merc-emi.htm
> http://www.mercvt.org/dispose/lamps.htm
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, mdg0911
@aol.comxxx says...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
>
I don't think you can have too much light but to put it in perspective.
You can turn a light off if you feel it is too much, if the light isn't
there to start with you're SOL.
--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
[email protected]
IMHO only if you need sun glasses... Otherwise the more the better. The
building openings are not going to be much help at night or in the early
evenings during the winter.
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
> with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
> overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
> lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
> electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
> shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
If the rest of the neighborhood blacks out when you turn on the lights, you
might have too much light.
If the state has to build a new power plant just for you, you might have too
much light.
Wayne
P.S. I have 2 8' lights with two tubes each, and 4 4' lights with 2 tubes
each in a two car garage and on occassion still find myself trying to find a
place that has better light .
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:151020041531466942%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Mike
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
> If you need to wear an SPF 30 sunblock, you might have too much light
> in the shop.
>
> If your electrical utility calls and asks you to go in and watch TV for
> a while so the steel fabrication shop down the highway can get some
> welding done, you might have too much light in the shop.
>
> If the neighbors are complaining about the glare, and it's noon on a
> sunny July day, you might have too much light in the shop.
>
> If you can hear the fluttering of the moths while using your shaper,
> you might have too much light in the shop.
>
> If you find you're really comfortable wearing welders' goggles while
> turning pens on your Jet Mini, you might have too much light in the
> shop.
>
> ...
I had qty 9, 8' dual tube fl. fixtures and one 4' dual tube fixture (HO,
cold start, high-end elec.ballast etc. etc. etc.. CRI of the bulbs was 92)
in my 20x20 shop. They were divided into two switched sets; one with 4, the
other had 6. I also had four skylights in there. The lights were all on all
the time I was in there. (pics at "old shop" at URL below). I'd do it again.
I still used "task" lighting on the bandsaw etc as well. Your Electrician
simply doesn't want to hang the lights...mine didn't either. I did it. Did I
say I'd do it again? <g!>
Good luck
Rob
--
http://www.robswoodworking.com
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
> In article ,
> Greg Millen wrote:
>>This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
>>"neighbour" and "aluminium".
>>
>>We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
>>lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.
>>
>>Give us time and we'll manage to bastardise the language almost as well as
>>you <g>.
>>
>
> As in Jabberwocky, mate? Or merely Waltzing Matilda
As in Mulga Bill, another of Paterson's fare:
http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/mulgab.html
I think we'll have to admit defeat if you trundle ebonics into the fray
though.
--
Greg
"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
>>"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message ...
>>> In article ,
> I really want to find somebody that speaks fluent jabberwocky. Not the
> (in)famous poem, but the Aussie rhyming slang.
>
A lot of us speak "strine", one of the most active would be Phil Laird. What
were you hoping to learn?
cheers,
Greg
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
Hi Mike. Well - I'm going to go against the grain a bit. I believe you can
install too much light. I'm in my 50's and I need more light every year,
but not all light is created equal. I don't find that having more ceiling
light is always the best answer. I'm finding I need more and more task
lighting and that the addition of more ceiling light is not the answer. If
I were you I'd go with less ceiling light and more provisions for task
lighting. Ceiling light suffers from shadows and reflections and there's
not much you can do about that. With task lighting you can control those
two issues. I'd go with providing for a well lit shop - probably not far
from what your electrician is suggesting, and then augment that in the areas
where I need it. Use multiple switches and switch your lights in banks as
other posters have suggested.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Yep. I remember that. Strange how many things will kill the modern person.
We were tougher back then:)
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "CW" <no adddress@spam free.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > We do and will continue to do so.
> >
>
> Most of us do.
>
> As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
> school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
> clean it up.
>
>
My shop is 27x27 - I have 2 rows of 8 (16 total) 8' fluorescents + 4 transom
windows around the shop + a window in the front.
People come in and when I hit the switches - people comment they need their
sun glasses. To me its perfect - not a shadow anywhere. Can never have 2
much light.
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Prometheus wrote:
> > Are they hanging on chains or mounted to the ceiling? I've got some
> > of each, and I found that the ones on chains hum a whole lot more than
> > the ones attached to something solid.
>
>
> Mine are hanging on chains. They only hum when they're first turned on
and
> continue to hum for a while if it's really cold out there. Once they've
warmed
> up, the hum goes away. Truthfully, I'm only aware of the hum when I first
turn
> them on in the winter months.
>
> Trust me, my lights are as cheap as they come: double four foot fixtures
for
> about $7.50 each. Plenty bright if you get enough of them.
>
>
>
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
>
> [email protected]
> http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
>
>
Mine are double 8' cold start fixtures. They never stop humming (I suppose
I should teach the the words). I can't stand it. Every time I go into my
shop I have to turn on a radio or the tv to drown out that gawd-awful sound.
Mike wrote:
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
I don't see how. I've got 18 four foot 40 watt tubes in mine plus a double
flood light with a motion sensor in my two car garage / workshop. My shop is
lit up like a classroom. Sure makes things easier when I work at night.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:31:46 -0600, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> scribbled:
>In article <[email protected]>, Mike
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>If you need to wear an SPF 30 sunblock, you might have too much light
>in the shop.
>
>If your electrical utility calls and asks you to go in and watch TV for
>a while so the steel fabrication shop down the highway can get some
>welding done, you might have too much light in the shop.
>
>If the neighbors are complaining about the glare, and it's noon on a
>sunny July day, you might have too much light in the shop.
>
>If you can hear the fluttering of the moths while using your shaper,
>you might have too much light in the shop.
>
>If you find you're really comfortable wearing welders' goggles while
>turning pens on your Jet Mini, you might have too much light in the
>shop.
If the Mounties raid your shop thinking it's a marijuana grow
operation, you might have too much light in the shop.
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
"Dan Jefferson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Why not have all the light you can afford, want, and pay for. Were only
> going this way once....Dan
>
>
>
>
Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.
Dan
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
Only if your cabinet saw slows down when you turn the lights on.
--
Smert' spamionam
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
> with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
> overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
> lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
> electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
> shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
My electrician's rule of thumb is a double fluorescent light covers a space
6 feet to each side, so I think six would be adequate if you ran two rows
parallel to the 25' wall, 6 and 1/2 feet from the walls and 12 feet apart.
He install 4 double eight footers in my shop of 20'X24' and it is quite
adequate. The rest of the building, a 28X36 foot garage has 3 rows of 3
eight foot lights.
He installed cold start ballasts which is a very good thing in an unheated
building, but they are very noisy as heck, which is a very bad thing. The
hum drives me nuts!
Gary
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
>
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> --={Flyer}=-- wrote:
>>> We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent
>>> tubes
>>> than to buy new ones.
>>
>>
>> Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. <G>
>>
>
> I'm not up to date on the new regulations, but there are regulations for
> disposal. The lamps contain heavy metal and should not just be trashed.
> http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste/id/merc-emi/merc-emi.htm
> http://www.mercvt.org/dispose/lamps.htm
If you read the EPA rule you'll find, first, that if you generate less than
100 kg of regulated waste of the category in which fluorescent lamps fall
per month you're not subject to the regulations and can just send it to the
landfill, and second, that only lamps that fail the "TCLP" test are
regulated. Fluorescents that pass that test are marked with green
endcaps--the Phillips "Alto" brand was the first but I believe there are
others.
The Vermont regulations referenced in the second item are more stringent
than the Federal, and miss the point which is that by encouraging the use
of low-mercury fluorescent lights environmental mercury can be reduced by
reducing power consumption and thus mercury release at power plants--at
least that seems to have been the EPA's reasoning. By having unreasonable
disposal requirements Vermont discourages the use of energy-efficient
lighting.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "CW" <no adddress@spam free.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> We do and will continue to do so.
>>
>
> Most of us do.
>
> As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
> school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
> clean it up.
I remember vividly a kid in my chemistry class swallowing a blob of mercury.
The teacher didn't think it was anything to worry about (she had been
involved in the Manhattan Project--she knew her stuff--wasn't ignorance).
With him it was kind of hard to tell whether it had any effect--this was
the '60s and the '60s were _very_ good to him.
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Old Nick wrote:
> On 17 Oct 2004 21:46:31 -0700, [email protected] (Dan Cullimore)
> vaguely proposed a theory
> ......and in reply I say!:
>
> remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>
>>Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
>>kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.
>
> Why? No bastard ever did it for you! Look at the mess we are headed
> into already! Except Ralph Nader and his ilk, and see what most people
> think of _them_.
It's all going to run out eventually. Alternatives exist, when they become
cost-effective (i.e. the price of what we use now goes high enough) they'll
be used. There's a lot of technology that sits on the shelf because the
greenies have us too chicken to use it. When we're freezing to death in
the dark see how long it takes to tell the greenies to either light us a
fire or go pound sand.
> *****************************************************
> Have you noticed that people always run from what
> they _need_ toward what they want?????
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
I have a 16x24 basement shop I just finished off. Painted the floor an
off white and the walls a semi-gloss white. I then put in 12 4' double
bulb shop lights. Almost needed sunglasses to go in there. When I put
all the stuff in the shop it absorbed some light and now it's perfect.
BTW: 8 of the fixtures run right down the middle, side by side. The
other 4 are against the wall near the main tool to cut down on, or
eliminate, shadows. Working great for me.
[email protected] (Mike) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
If you need sunglasses, there's too much light.
;-)
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>door.
>
>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>TIA for any opinions.
>
>Mike
Mortimer Schnerd, RN said:
>--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
>> We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
>> than to buy new ones.
>
>
>Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. <G>
Err... They contain mercury and phosphors that are bad for you and
the ground water. This is one reason that T-8 bulbs are being
required in commercial establishments. They use less power for
equivalent light, and have reduced mercury and phosphor content.
Electronic ballasts, and 0 degree starting temps are added benefits.
FWIW,
Greg G.
Why not have all the light you can afford, want, and pay for. Were only
going this way once....Dan
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
Mike,
I put 6 each 8' 2-lamp fixtures in a 20 X 30 shop. I never felt like
it was too much light. Just about right for me. With your extra 150
square feet, 2 more fixtures should give you the same level of
illumination. Electricians just don't realize the level of detail we
woodworkers need to see. Maybe we should call ourselves wood surgeons
to get some respect.
DonkeyHody
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom
that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down
on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid
again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold
one anymore." - Mark Twain
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
Thanks for all the input. I found it very useful. I will plan on at least 2
switches for the flourescents and I think I'll add some incandescent fixtures
as well. Maybe center the incandescents over the benches and some of the
machinery. Since SWMBO is buying, I will go for the daylight lamps as well.
Thanks again,
Mike
On 15 Oct 2004 18:33:08 GMT, [email protected] (Greg) wrote:
>I have incandecents on a motion detector and flourecents on switches. That way
>if you are just walking in to pick up something or drop something off with your
>arms full, the lights will come on.
GREAT idea!!! my normal garage light switch is in the family room, and
I usually enter the shop through the garage door... meaning a bit of
stumbling to find a switch in the middle of the garage...
I have a sensor and will add it (and a 60w bulb) today... THANKS!!
On 15 Oct 2004 17:30:21 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Thanks for all the input. I found it very useful. I will plan on at least 2
>switches for the flourescents and I think I'll add some incandescent fixtures
>as well. Maybe center the incandescents over the benches and some of the
>machinery. Since SWMBO is buying, I will go for the daylight lamps as well.
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Mike
I'm guess that you're installing them flush or maybe recessed?
If so, that makes a difference on how much light you throw and where
you throw it...
Also, if you use plastic deflectors (I threw mine away), they cut the
light considerably..
I still hang all my fixtures when I can.. I like to put them up sort
of temporarily, and do a project or two... they get moved a lot for a
while.. lol
If you are still in the layout stage I would suggest you install a few
switched outlets on the ceiling. It will be easier to do now before
everything is in place. These can be used later for either adding light
fixtures or drop down cords for machinery. I have one in the center of
the work area that I have a pull out extension cord hooked up to. It is
on it's own circuit breaker. Far better to have unused outlets than
needing more. You can never have too much light (this from a 57 year old
who needs more each year!).
Bruce
Mike wrote:
> Thanks for all the input. I found it very useful. I will plan on at least 2
> switches for the flourescents and I think I'll add some incandescent fixtures
> as well. Maybe center the incandescents over the benches and some of the
> machinery. Since SWMBO is buying, I will go for the daylight lamps as well.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Mike
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:45:05 -0400, "Gary" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
> >> with 10
> >> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
> >> overhead
> >> door.
> >>
> >> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
> >> lamp HO
> >> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
> >> electrician
> >> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
> >> shop?
> >>
> >> TIA for any opinions.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >
> >My electrician's rule of thumb is a double fluorescent light covers a
space
> >6 feet to each side, so I think six would be adequate if you ran two rows
> >parallel to the 25' wall, 6 and 1/2 feet from the walls and 12 feet
apart.
> >He install 4 double eight footers in my shop of 20'X24' and it is quite
> >adequate. The rest of the building, a 28X36 foot garage has 3 rows of 3
> >eight foot lights.
> >He installed cold start ballasts which is a very good thing in an
unheated
> >building, but they are very noisy as heck, which is a very bad thing.
The
> >hum drives me nuts!
>
> Are they hanging on chains or mounted to the ceiling? I've got some
> of each, and I found that the ones on chains hum a whole lot more than
> the ones attached to something solid.
>
> >Gary
> >
>
Mine are hard mounted to the ceiling joists.
Gary
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike wrote:
>
> In my opinion you can't have too much light. One thing I'd suggest it to
> use a
> combination of fluorescent and incandescent lights to give a more natural
> lighting.
You're gonna take lighting advice from someone named "Nova?" :)
Actually, I agree a mix is good, although I prefer incandescent. I had
tubes in my previous shop, and when I built my new one, I went all
incandescent. Two reasons, really -- I didn't like the "color" of the
fluorescent lights, and since my shop wasn't heated all the time, they
didn't like to come on in the winter. They would sit there and buzz and
flicker for about 20 minutes while they heated up. The thing about the
bulbs, while they may use more electricity and all that --- you can easily
change the wattage if you need to. So, over my bench, I sometimes plug in
some 200 watters, and in other places in the shop, I have 60s.
--={Flyer}=-- wrote:
> We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
> than to buy new ones.
Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. <G>
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com
In article <mJQbd.4511$EZ.3502@okepread07>, "RonB" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Mike:
> Sounds like a lot, but go for it. You won't be sorry. I work from a three
> car garage- about 630 sq ft. When we built the house a few years ago I had
> three 8' double tubers installed - two about 8' out from the house wall and
> one perpendicular, in the center. Also my walls are sheetrocked and white.
> A friend drove by one evening and said it looked like the Cape Kennedy
> assembly building.
>
> If I had it to do again I would add a couple. For most things I have good
> light but there are shadows everywhere. I have aux lights on some of my
> tools (bandsaw, drill press, etc).
>
> I also think placement is as important as quantity. Done again, I would
> place some tubes that parallel the wall, closer to the wall. Seems we paint
> the walls white, things are good, then we hang pegboard, shelves and
> cabinets everywhere and our tool/bench areas get darker. I would make sure
> you have tubes, or ends of tubes, within 4' or so of walls that will be
> close to workspace. If you know where your bench(s) go, hang tubes above
> center of the bench.
>
> Congrats on the new shop - I'm green.
My shop is 20x30 and my electricians and builder both said that I was
putting in too many fixtures. I put in 6 banks of 5 each 4 foot-2 tube
fixtures. Guess what? There are still some places with not enough
light! I agree with the comment about placement. I would also put some
tubes in parallelling the walls and close to the walls.
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:21:55 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
>I remember vividly a kid in my chemistry class swallowing a blob of mercury.
>The teacher didn't think it was anything to worry about (she had been
>involved in the Manhattan Project--she knew her stuff--wasn't ignorance).
No. Just such a lofty idea of what "mattered" that little mercury was
drop in the ocean! <G>
I can remember my old man (worked in a lab) giving me a bottle of
mercury to play with...silvering mirrors, making little switches and
such for fun. Little worry or warning. But then we had teachers who
used to drop sodium in water while we all stood and watched (no
glasses), and dry white phosphorus in the sun on the verandah outside
the classroom....those were the days.
*****************************************************
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????
Mike:
Sounds like a lot, but go for it. You won't be sorry. I work from a three
car garage- about 630 sq ft. When we built the house a few years ago I had
three 8' double tubers installed - two about 8' out from the house wall and
one perpendicular, in the center. Also my walls are sheetrocked and white.
A friend drove by one evening and said it looked like the Cape Kennedy
assembly building.
If I had it to do again I would add a couple. For most things I have good
light but there are shadows everywhere. I have aux lights on some of my
tools (bandsaw, drill press, etc).
I also think placement is as important as quantity. Done again, I would
place some tubes that parallel the wall, closer to the wall. Seems we paint
the walls white, things are good, then we hang pegboard, shelves and
cabinets everywhere and our tool/bench areas get darker. I would make sure
you have tubes, or ends of tubes, within 4' or so of walls that will be
close to workspace. If you know where your bench(s) go, hang tubes above
center of the bench.
Congrats on the new shop - I'm green.
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> --={Flyer}=-- wrote:
>> We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent
>> tubes
>> than to buy new ones.
>
>
> Why? Just break them. They'll take up no space at all. <G>
>
I'm not up to date on the new regulations, but there are regulations for
disposal. The lamps contain heavy metal and should not just be trashed.
http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste/id/merc-emi/merc-emi.htm
http://www.mercvt.org/dispose/lamps.htm
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Mike) wrote:
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
I realize you've probly already gotten the answer you were looking for,
but...
There is or was a guy here on the group by the name of Lew Hodgett who
used to spec lighting for commercial applications, if I recall
correctly. Your question has come up many times in the past and Lew has
provided the figures and formulas to calculate the appropriate quantity
of watts for a shop. Here's a link to a google search on lew and
lighting - you might find some helpful info here:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=lighting&safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&
oe=ISO-8859-1&as_ugroup=rec.woodworking&as_uauthors=lew%20hodgett&lr=&hl=
en>
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____
"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
-- Ann Hayman Zwinger
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>door.
>
>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>TIA for any opinions.
>
>Mike
The machine shop where I work had a surplus in our maintenance budget many years
ago. Our then-general manager took it upon himself to 'upgrade' the lighting in
the building, which was in excess of 20,000 sq. ft. The former lighting was
continuous rows of 2-lite 8ft. flourescents spaced about 6 feet apart on the 13
foot high ceiling He directed the electricians to add more rows between the
existing ones, yielding rows 3 ft. apart. The machine operators all wear
baseball caps indoors now to shield their eyes from the glare. Our shop is
located across the street from the local electrical supply store, and the owner,
who I must say had to be thankful for our 'upgrade', said, "Geeze! Why didn't
you just take the roof off the building?"
We've also discovered that it costs more to dispose of used flourescent tubes
than to buy new ones.
Tom Flyer
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:37:09 +1000, "Greg Millen"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>This is the internet, I'm from Australia. We still use "whilst", "colour",
>"neighbour" and "aluminium".
>
>We're just a bit backward, in fact, we still have black and white traffic
>lights, and the kangaroos run amok in the suburbs.
>
>Give us time and we'll manage to bastardise the language almost as well as
>you <g>.
well, at least you keep your sense of humour about it...
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>door.
>
>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
Nope.
>TIA for any opinions.
>
>Mike
Some people half my age think that my ideas of good light are overkill too.
That's the key. How well do you see with the lighting?. That sounds fine to
me.
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi All,
>
> My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30
with 10
> foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot
overhead
> door.
>
> I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2
lamp HO
> flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My
electrician
> seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a
shop?
>
> TIA for any opinions.
>
> Mike
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:53:51 GMT, "NoOne N Particular"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>If the state has to build a new power plant just for you, you might have too
>much light.
>
If the Utility Company Executive that lives next door, comes home with
a new bass boat, you might...
"CW" <no adddress@spam free.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We do and will continue to do so.
>
Most of us do.
As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
clean it up.
Old coots need more light than young farts. 4 fixtures along the 30
foot run is only a fixture every 5 feet. Not too much chance for
shadows with that spacing. I would do 2 light switches. I would rather
have a bit too much than not enough.
[email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>door.
>
>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>TIA for any opinions.
>
>Mike
On 17 Oct 2004 21:46:31 -0700, [email protected] (Dan Cullimore)
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Few less kids and grandkids, and we would all have a lot less to worry
about....
>Yeah, but it only makes sense to think ahead. Once fer us, but the
>kids and grandkids are coming on...otta leave um sumpun.
>
>Dan
*****************************************************
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????
On 15 Oct 2004 10:25:36 GMT, [email protected] (Mike) wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>My new shop bldg is built and now waiting to be finished. It is 25 x 30 with 10
>foot walls. The shop also has 4 windows, 2 walk doors, and a 10 foot overhead
>door.
>
>I was thinking (sometimes dangerous for an old coot) that 8, 8 foot 2 lamp HO
>flourescent fixtures would be adequate for general lighting. My electrician
>seems to think that is overkill. Can there ever be too much light in a shop?
>
>TIA for any opinions.
>
>Mike
Only when the wood starts to smoke...
Also Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody...I should have been more specific..." - Lily Tomlin
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:06:31 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"CW" <no adddress@spam free.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> We do and will continue to do so.
>>
>
>Most of us do.
>
>As a kid, we used to play with mercury, now if a drop is spilled in a
>school lab, they will evacuate the school and have a hazmat crew come to
>clean it up.
>
I was raised in the sign business... I remember my dad's helper
cutting his finger on a piece of broken neon and being treated for
mercury poisoning... it wasn't pretty and gave me a lot of
respect/fear of breaking any kinda glass tubes..