"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Awesome! And a bit cringe inducing.
A bit? My wife and I were almost curled into balls on our chairs.
On Jan 19, 11:01=A0am, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Interesting observation, though. =A0Which finger would someone pick to
> > lose if they had to lose one? =A0I'm guessing pretty much everyone woul=
d
> > pick the pinky.*
>
> > R
>
> > * =A0Good grief - my spellchecker just flagged pinky.
>
> The (pinky, pinkie?) 5th carpal digit is the strongest grasping
> finger. =A0Grab your (opposite) thumb and squeeze with each 5th, 4th and
> 3rd digit, individually, and see which applies the most force. =A0The
> pinky is a keeper, even for your lesser dominant hand.
>
> Sonny
The pinky gives your right hand something to rest on
the banjo head.
On Jan 17, 8:41=A0am, Kimosabe <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=3DE3mzhvMgrLE&NR=3D1
Okay already...we know it works.
But what I am hearing, from all over, is that it is an exceptional
piece of equipment as a saw.
Right up there with General 650 etc.
A 'TRUE' endorsement of the builder's confidence would be if he were
to demo it with his dick.
THAT would be cringe-worthy... after all, he's got ten fingers.....
I agree with the safety aspect and would buy one also.
I don't agree with the capacitive sensing though, no matter what they claim.
The capacity of a plastic cased weiner is a lot lower than a 3/4" sheet of
damo fir plywood ebing held by a human on a huge mass grounded steel table.
Somebody is protecting their non-patent with some BS.
I had originally heard it was moisture but the demo sort of disproves that
also.
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3c84bd07-471e-4b6d-a975-40b55cbca894@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
That demo was a trick.
>
OK, it is an electrical circut completion that triggers the safety
brake right?
What if you have no contact with the table top but just the blade?
Notice his hand is resting on the table top.
What if you are using a wooden sled? Does it stil work?
What if you are standing on a rubber mat?
Just wondering.
All that said, I too am pretty sure next new TS purchase would have to
be a sawstop, especially if I go into a business situation where I am
asking\hiring others to run the tool. Fortunately I don't thnk anyone
is making a saw any better. The commercial Sawstaop is a beautiful
fricking saw, brake or not. Not worth an extra grand on it's own but
the brake feature is worth a finger, a new blade and hunk of aluminum.
On Jan 19, 1:40=A0pm, "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
> =A0That demo was a trick.
>
>
>
> OK, it is an electrical circut completion that triggers the safety
> brake right?
>
> What if you have no contact with the table top but just the blade?
> Notice his hand is resting on the table top.
> What if you are using a wooden sled? Does it stil work?
> What if you are standing on a rubber mat?
>
> Just wondering.
It's capacitive, like those lamps where you touch the base to turn it
on or off. Your body has electrical current. You could be wearing
rubber soled shoes and it still works. You don't need to be grounded.
R
A side note: The pinky and ring finger carpal bones are flexible
within the hand, allowing for those fingers to best grasp and hold
objects.... pretty important tasks for those fingers. The thumb and
forefinger (and the middle finger) carpal bones are ridgid, within the
hand, and are most used to manipulate objects, also pretty important
tasks. The middle finger is "least important" for grasping and/or
manipulating objects. He "sacrifice" his least important finger on
his left hand. I'll bet he's right handed, too. I wouldn't think the
camera's being on the right side was coincidence, either.
Sonny
On Jan 18, 7:06=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 8:41=A0am, Kimosabe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=3DE3mzhvMgrLE&NR=3D1
>
> Okay already...we know it works.
> But what I am hearing, from all over, is that it is an exceptional
> piece of equipment as a saw.
> Right up there with General 650 etc.
>
> A 'TRUE' endorsement of the builder's confidence would be if he were
> to demo it with his dick.
> THAT would be cringe-worthy... after all, he's got ten fingers.....
Kinda doubt if you will see that on Discovery! :o)
=A0That demo was a trick.
>
OK, it is an electrical circut completion that triggers the safety
brake right?
What if you have no contact with the table top but just the blade?
Notice his hand is resting on the table top.
What if you are using a wooden sled? Does it stil work?
What if you are standing on a rubber mat?
Just wondering.
All that said, I too am pretty sure next new TS purchase would have to
be a sawstop, especially if I go into a business situation where I am
asking\hiring others to run the tool. Fortunately I don't thnk anyone
is making a saw any better. The commercial Sawstaop is a beautiful
fricking saw, brake or not. Not worth an extra grand on it's own but
the brake feature is worth a finger, a new blade and hunk of aluminum.
On Jan 19, 3:51=C2=A0pm, "Josepi" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree with the safety aspect and would buy one also.
>
> I don't agree with the capacitive sensing though, no matter what they cla=
im.
>
> The capacity of a plastic cased weiner is a lot lower than a 3/4" sheet o=
f
> damo fir plywood ebing held by a human on a huge mass grounded steel tabl=
e.
> Somebody is protecting their non-patent with some BS.
>
> I had originally heard it was moisture but the demo sort of disproves tha=
t
> also.
Well, I'm not sure about plywood 'ebing', what things other than
humans operate machinery on this planet, or the capacity of a weiner
(sheesh), but the word is:
capacitance (k=C9=99=CB=88p=C3=A6s=C9=AAt=C9=99ns) -n
1. the property of a system that enables it to store electric charge
2. a measure of this, equal to the charge that must be added to such
a system to raise its electrical potential by one unit
Were you asleep that day in the third grade when they made a potato
battery?
You don't know the word, you don't know they got it patented, but I do
know you are dangerous with a keyboard. You assault people's
intelligence on a daily basis with it. Put it down and step away.
Thanks.
R
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> A 'TRUE' endorsement of the builder's confidence would be if he were
> to demo it with his dick.
> THAT would be cringe-worthy... after all, he's got ten fingers.....
Ahh..., the "push stick" test.
On 2011-01-18 09:35:03 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> said:
> Particularly if it didn't reach the blade to start with ....
The punch line is "Cold -- and deep!"
On 01/19/2011 01:18 PM, dpb wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>> That demo was a trick.
>>
>> OK, it is an electrical circut completion that triggers the safety
>> brake right?
>>
>> What if you have no contact with the table top but just the blade?
>> Notice his hand is resting on the table top.
>> What if you are using a wooden sled? Does it stil work?
>> What if you are standing on a rubber mat?
>>
>> Just wondering.
> ...
>
> OK, somewhere I saved one of the Patents...ah, here's the pertinent
> section from the Disclosure section--
>
> "The detection subsystem includes a sensor assembly, such as contact
> detection plates 44 and 46 , capacitively coupled to blade 40 to detect
> any contact between the user's body and the blade. Typically, the blade,
> or some larger portion of cutting tool 14 is electrically isolated from
> the remainder of miter saw 10 . Alternatively, detection subsystem 22
> may include a different sensor assembly configured to detect contact in
> other ways, such as optically, resistively, etc. In any event, the
> detection subsystem is adapted to transmit a signal to control subsystem
> 26 when contact between the user and the blade is detected. ..."
>
> AFAIK, the only ones on the market use the capacitively-coupled
> embodiment rather than resistive or optical.
>
> Primarily the physical causative factor of the body capacitance
> instigating trip is owing to the water content of flesh;
What if you're a dried up old fart?
one of the
> features of the saw (at least initially, I presume still is altho I've
> not looked at one in detail since shortly after initial introduction) is
> a bypass switch so it won't be triggered falsely when cutting, say,
> construction treated tubafores or similar that are wet. Of course, using
> that is a conundrum since it prevents a real trip if one were required
> as well...
>
> That's probably more than I know... :)
>
> I _think_ all are based on passive capacitance change as somebody else
> similar to the lamp switch effect. There are active capacitative
> proximity sensors, but they're measuring a field change.
>
> --
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c66db301-cf2d-4b0a-88d2-71c13749c4d9@r16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> Right, Solomon, they should have tried cutting a baby in half.
>>
>> There was no trick. There also was no stupidity.
>>
>> R
>
> Yes, it fricking works. I still want them to hire the guys from
> Jackass to do it with a really important body part...
Probably not dangerous enough. Or stupid enough.
Those guys from Jackass are stoooopid!
> Let me ask/tell you something here, where are you going to find anything
> but
> a limp weiner to face the spinning blade. I think even the most inflated
> ego would soon result in a deflated weiner regardless of which d'erection
> it approached a spinning saw blade.
Shoot, an out-ie might even turn into an in-ie!
--
Jim in NC
On Jan 18, 9:38=A0am, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast
dot net> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>
> > A 'TRUE' endorsement of the builder's confidence would be if he were
> > to demo it with his dick.
> > THAT would be cringe-worthy... after all, he's got ten fingers.....
>
> Ahh..., the "push stick" test.
=3D=3D=3D=3DGUARD REMOVED FOR CLARITY=3D=3D=3D=3D
.
.
.
.
Do NOT try this at home.
> Interesting observation, though. =A0Which finger would someone pick to
> lose if they had to lose one? =A0I'm guessing pretty much everyone would
> pick the pinky.*
>
> R
>
> * =A0Good grief - my spellchecker just flagged pinky.
The (pinky, pinkie?) 5th carpal digit is the strongest grasping
finger. Grab your (opposite) thumb and squeeze with each 5th, 4th and
3rd digit, individually, and see which applies the most force. The
pinky is a keeper, even for your lesser dominant hand.
Sonny
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote
> Surely by now we have some real-world accounts of how the Saw-Stop has
> saved somebody from serious harm? Or do we only have demos to reassure
> us?
I had read some accounts from people who really slipped. They related an
1/8" cut needing only a bandaid for first aid.
--
Jim in NC
On Jan 18, 8:06=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 8:41=A0am, Kimosabe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=3DE3mzhvMgrLE&NR=3D1
>
> Okay already...we know it works.
> But what I am hearing, from all over, is that it is an exceptional
> piece of equipment as a saw.
> Right up there with General 650 etc.
>
> A 'TRUE' endorsement of the builder's confidence would be if he were
> to demo it with his dick.
> THAT would be cringe-worthy... after all, he's got ten fingers.....
...and you'd want to see that video? Hmmm. And wouldn't a true
endorsement be in a true life situation? I don't know too many nudist
woodworkers. Sawdust gets in the pubes and other places that a dust
collector would refuse to go.
R
On Jan 18, 4:46=A0pm, Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> A side note: =A0The pinky and ring finger carpal bones are flexible
> within the hand, allowing for those fingers to best grasp and hold
> objects.... pretty important tasks for those fingers. =A0The thumb and
> forefinger (and the middle finger) carpal bones are ridgid, within the
> hand, and are most used to manipulate objects, also pretty important
> tasks. =A0The middle finger is "least important" for grasping and/or
> manipulating objects. =A0He "sacrifice" his least important finger on
> his left hand. =A0I'll bet he's right handed, too. =A0I wouldn't think th=
e
> camera's being on the right side was coincidence, either.
If nothing else (and there really is nothing else) losing the middle
finger would at least give you and others a standing joke to work
with.
"What was the toughest part about losing your middle finger?"
"Learning to drive again."
Interesting observation, though. Which finger would someone pick to
lose if they had to lose one? I'm guessing pretty much everyone would
pick the pinky.*
R
* Good grief - my spellchecker just flagged pinky.
On Jan 18, 10:46=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> =A0Sawdust gets in the pubes and other places that a dust
> collector would refuse to go.
>
> R
I don't want to know HOW you know that so intimately.
TMI
On 1/18/2011 7:48 PM, Steve wrote:
> On 2011-01-18 09:35:03 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Particularly if it didn't reach the blade to start with ....
>
> The punch line is "Cold -- and deep!"
LOL ... someone finally got it.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> Awesome! And a bit cringe inducing.
>
>> A bit? My wife and I were almost curled into balls on our chairs.
>Balls? I'm hoping mine drop back before my wife gets home from work!
Heh, it was agonizing to watch even with the Sawstop guy being really,
really careful not to risk serious injury even if his product had
malfunctioned. Some things just go against every instinct.
I am sure he wanted to limit the damage, should more than designed occur but
he did wait until the sweat from his hand triggered it, unlike a real
"accident"
I would like to see a piece of steak swung into the blade at a "real" human
reaction speed like somebody jumping back from a kick-back pulling their
hand back as fast as their nervous system will react. My guess is it would
still mangle the finger but not take the second one off. My felling is
nobody slowly feeds their finger into the TS blade a a slow speed. Accidents
are when the "shit hits the fan" and the human reacts, nervously.
"SteveT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f49b0e26-ca28-4fb4-aa10-63d762e432f2@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
If you watch closely, not much was at risk. He approached with the
tip of his finger. Worst that could happen would be a cut, not
severance of the finger. He also touched the side of the blade, not
the tip. That demo was a trick.
Steve Tahan.
On Jan 17, 8:41 am, Kimosabe <[email protected]> wrote:
Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
ROFLMAO
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c66db301-cf2d-4b0a-88d2-71c13749c4d9@r16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Yes, it fricking works. I still want them to hire the guys from
Jackass to do it with a really important body part...
> Right, Solomon, they should have tried cutting a baby in half.
>
> There was no trick. There also was no stupidity.
>
> R
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>
> Hot dogs are pretty moist. When he demonstrated it with his finger, he
> soaks in water first. When woodworking, my hands get dry as a bone. Try a
> dry finger.
>
IIR when you get cut the wound instantly becomes moist. IIRC there never
has been a claim of getting off "scott free" with out a nick. ;~)
"Kimosabe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:35853182-d2e9-417f-b6a9-82e44be15ad7@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
I've seen the hotdog demonstration many times and often wondered "if it's so
great, why isn't anyone using their finger instead of a hotdog?" Now I know.
In order to instill faith in a product, it's creator must apply a true life
scenario. He did, I'm convinced.
Good video.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:c66db301-cf2d-4b0a-88d2-71c13749c4d9@r16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>> Right, Solomon, they should have tried cutting a baby in half.
>>>
>>> There was no trick. There also was no stupidity.
>>>
>>> R
>>
>> Yes, it fricking works. I still want them to hire the guys from
>> Jackass to do it with a really important body part...
>
> Probably not dangerous enough. Or stupid enough.
>
> Those guys from Jackass are stoooopid!
>
>
>
Hot dogs are pretty moist. When he demonstrated it with his finger, he soaks
in water first. When woodworking, my hands get dry as a bone. Try a dry
finger.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/19/2011 10:14 PM, CW wrote:
>>
>>> Hot dogs are pretty moist. When he demonstrated it with his finger, he
>>> soaks
>>> in water first. When woodworking, my hands get dry as a bone. Try a dry
>>> finger.
>>
>> Doesn't it use capacitance as the switch mechanism?
>>
>> With capacitance touch switches a dry finger shouldn't make much
>> practical difference, otherwise you would not get a stylus to work
>> effectively on a capacitance touch screen.
>
> The question then is why doesn't it trip on dry lumber and there's the
> override for using it with PT lumber that is wet?
>
> I'm on slow connection so hadn't tried to see the demo as bandwidth makes
> it too painful--did he actually wet the finger before the test in the
> demo? That's telling if so that wanted to be _real_sure_now_ (tm) I'd
> think if so... :)
>
> --
Not only wets it, he soaks it in cold water.
I don't think it works on detecting sault.
"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Were you asleep that day in the third grade when they made a potato
battery?
You don't know the word, you don't know they got it patented, but I do
know you are dangerous with a keyboard. You assault people's
intelligence on a daily basis with it. Put it down and step away.
Thanks.
R
On 1/20/2011 9:33 AM, dpb wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 1/19/2011 10:14 PM, CW wrote:
>>
>>> Hot dogs are pretty moist. When he demonstrated it with his finger,
>>> he soaks
>>> in water first. When woodworking, my hands get dry as a bone. Try a dry
>>> finger.
>>
>> Doesn't it use capacitance as the switch mechanism?
>>
>> With capacitance touch switches a dry finger shouldn't make much
>> practical difference, otherwise you would not get a stylus to work
>> effectively on a capacitance touch screen.
>
> The question then is why doesn't it trip on dry lumber and there's the
> override for using it with PT lumber that is wet?
Something about moisture content increasing the lumbers dialectric
properties (involving dielectric constant) as an insulator and affecting
the ultimate "capacitance" of the human body and the blade as conductors??
Shheeeesh ... haven't taken physics in almost 50 years and "capacitance"
was one of those properties that you thought you had a handle on until
you tried to expound on what you thought you knew (and nothing,
apparently, has changed in the interim). :-)
I do remember that it was always the exact opposite of intuitive,
especially when using an example like the capacitance of the human body,
and a door knob, as conductors generating a spark when being separated
by a dielectric medium like "dry" air, and why it changed with "moist" air.
> I'm on slow connection so hadn't tried to see the demo as bandwidth
> makes it too painful--did he actually wet the finger before the test in
> the demo? That's telling if so that wanted to be _real_sure_now_ (tm)
> I'd think if so... :)
<I may have actually missed that test question, so I give up too> ;)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 1/19/2011 10:14 PM, CW wrote:
> Hot dogs are pretty moist. When he demonstrated it with his finger, he soaks
> in water first. When woodworking, my hands get dry as a bone. Try a dry
> finger.
Doesn't it use capacitance as the switch mechanism?
With capacitance touch switches a dry finger shouldn't make much
practical difference, otherwise you would not get a stylus to work
effectively on a capacitance touch screen.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Sonny" wrote in message
news:3131a0ed-50bf-4052-b8a3-8e18eacc2c4b@z19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> He "sacrifice" his least important finger on
> his left hand. I'll bet he's right handed, too. I wouldn't think the
> camera's being on the right side was coincidence, either.
I don't believe he risked any finger. If the Sawstop mechanism had failed
he would have had a little nick on the end of one finger, but the blade
wouldn't have been able to grab enough meat to haul his hand onto the blade
as his finger was just barely within reach of the tip of the teeth. But it
still gave me the creeps.
On 1/18/2011 7:06 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> A 'TRUE' endorsement of the builder's confidence would be if he were
> to demo it with his dick.
> THAT would be cringe-worthy... after all, he's got ten fingers.....
Yep!
Particularly if it didn't reach the blade to start with ....
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:22dc6c63-13b9-43a4-ae9d-c8cb598916f0@q35g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 17, 8:41 am, Kimosabe <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
Okay already...we know it works.
But what I am hearing, from all over, is that it is an exceptional
piece of equipment as a saw.
Right up there with General 650 etc.
A 'TRUE' endorsement of the builder's confidence would be if he were
to demo it with his dick.
THAT would be cringe-worthy... after all, he's got ten fingers.....
Impossible!
Let me ask/tell you something here, where are you going to find anything but
a limp weiner to face the spinning blade. I think even the most inflated
ego would soon result in a deflated weiner regardless of which d'erection it
approached a spinning saw blade.
On Jan 18, 10:54=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 18, 10:46=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > =A0Sawdust gets in the pubes and other places that a dust
> > collector would refuse to go.
>
>
> I don't want to know HOW you know that so intimately.
> TMI
I went into one of those Nude Furniture stores while they were making
some furniture. I thought the nude had to do with furniture without a
finish on it - my mistake. =3D:O
R
Kimosabe wrote:
> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
Yup - they've shown that before.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Jan 17, 7:41=A0am, Kimosabe <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=3DE3mzhvMgrLE&NR=3D1
I have seen that several times and knew the outcome. But it is still
hard to watch again.
RonB
On Jan 19, 11:34=A0am, SteveT <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> If you watch closely, not much was at risk. =A0He approached with the
> tip of his finger. =A0Worst that could happen would be a cut, not
> severance of the finger. =A0He also touched the side of the blade, not
> the tip. =A0That demo was a trick.
Right, Solomon, they should have tried cutting a baby in half.
There was no trick. There also was no stupidity.
R
On Jan 17, 8:41=A0am, Kimosabe <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=3DE3mzhvMgrLE&NR=3D1
If you watch closely, not much was at risk. He approached with the
tip of his finger. Worst that could happen would be a cut, not
severance of the finger. He also touched the side of the blade, not
the tip. That demo was a trick.
Steve Tahan.
"Kimosabe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:35853182-d2e9-417f-b6a9-82e44be15ad7@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
Awesome! And a bit cringe inducing.
--
"He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! "
Brian's Mum
"DGDevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> "Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Awesome! And a bit cringe inducing.
>
> A bit? My wife and I were almost curled into balls on our chairs.
Balls? I'm hoping mine drop back before my wife gets home from work!
--
"He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! "
Brian's Mum
In article <[email protected]>, "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Kimosabe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:35853182-d2e9-417f-b6a9-82e44be15ad7@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>
>
>I've seen the hotdog demonstration many times and often wondered "if it's so
>great, why isn't anyone using their finger instead of a hotdog?" Now I know.
>
>In order to instill faith in a product, it's creator must apply a true life
>scenario. He did, I'm convinced.
Ever read about the first public demonstration of the Otis Safety Elevator?
"By 1854, [Elisha] Otis was exhibiting a working model of his invention at the
Crystal Palace Exhibition in New York. When his rising platform reached the
top, 40 feet above the assembled crowds below, he had an assistant
dramatically cut the hoist rope and, like a good showman, bow to the gasps of
the onlookers when the elevator did not fall. The New York Tribune called the
demonstration "sensational" (labeling Otis, "Mr. Safety Elevator Man")."
http://www.tomsoter.com/node/176
On 1/18/11 11:08 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:51:45 -0500, "SBH"<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Kimosabe"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:35853182-d2e9-417f-b6a9-82e44be15ad7@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>>
>>
>> I've seen the hotdog demonstration many times and often wondered "if it's so
>> great, why isn't anyone using their finger instead of a hotdog?" Now I know.
>>
>> In order to instill faith in a product, it's creator must apply a true life
>> scenario. He did, I'm convinced.
>>
>> Good video.
>
> What I haven't seen yet is a real-life slip and a quick hand into the
> whole blade. I'll bet it would do a whole lot more damage, albeit
> saving most of the hand.
>
I bet it would be exactly the same.
They do the quick push with a hot dog and it doesn't even cut the casing.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 01/19/2011 10:34 AM, SteveT wrote:
> On Jan 17, 8:41 am, Kimosabe<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>
> If you watch closely, not much was at risk. He approached with the
> tip of his finger. Worst that could happen would be a cut, not
> severance of the finger. He also touched the side of the blade, not
> the tip. That demo was a trick.
So you're man enough to have just stuck your finger right on in there, eh? He went farther
than I would have been able to go.
Surely by now we have some real-world accounts of how the Saw-Stop has saved somebody from
serious harm? Or do we only have demos to reassure us?
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
On 1/19/11 12:33 PM, Josepi wrote:
> I am sure he wanted to limit the damage, should more than designed occur but
> he did wait until the sweat from his hand triggered it, unlike a real
> "accident"
>
> I would like to see a piece of steak swung into the blade at a "real" human
> reaction speed like somebody jumping back from a kick-back pulling their
> hand back as fast as their nervous system will react. My guess is it would
> still mangle the finger but not take the second one off. My felling is
> nobody slowly feeds their finger into the TS blade a a slow speed. Accidents
> are when the "shit hits the fan" and the human reacts, nervously.
>
It's been done. Same results.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 1/19/11 1:18 PM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Jan 19, 11:34 am, SteveT<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> If you watch closely, not much was at risk. He approached with the
>> tip of his finger. Worst that could happen would be a cut, not
>> severance of the finger. He also touched the side of the blade, not
>> the tip. That demo was a trick.
>
> Right, Solomon, they should have tried cutting a baby in half.
>
> There was no trick. There also was no stupidity.
>
> R
Why can't people just accept the fact the thing fu@&!ng works?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> That demo was a trick.
>
> OK, it is an electrical circut completion that triggers the safety
> brake right?
>
> What if you have no contact with the table top but just the blade?
> Notice his hand is resting on the table top.
> What if you are using a wooden sled? Does it stil work?
> What if you are standing on a rubber mat?
>
> Just wondering.
...
OK, somewhere I saved one of the Patents...ah, here's the pertinent
section from the Disclosure section--
"The detection subsystem includes a sensor assembly, such as contact
detection plates 44 and 46 , capacitively coupled to blade 40 to
detect any contact between the user's body and the blade. Typically, the
blade, or some larger portion of cutting tool 14 is electrically
isolated from the remainder of miter saw 10 . Alternatively, detection
subsystem 22 may include a different sensor assembly configured to
detect contact in other ways, such as optically, resistively, etc. In
any event, the detection subsystem is adapted to transmit a signal to
control subsystem 26 when contact between the user and the blade is
detected. ..."
AFAIK, the only ones on the market use the capacitively-coupled
embodiment rather than resistive or optical.
Primarily the physical causative factor of the body capacitance
instigating trip is owing to the water content of flesh; one of the
features of the saw (at least initially, I presume still is altho I've
not looked at one in detail since shortly after initial introduction) is
a bypass switch so it won't be triggered falsely when cutting, say,
construction treated tubafores or similar that are wet. Of course,
using that is a conundrum since it prevents a real trip if one were
required as well...
That's probably more than I know... :)
I _think_ all are based on passive capacitance change as somebody else
similar to the lamp switch effect. There are active capacitative
proximity sensors, but they're measuring a field change.
--
Swingman wrote:
> On 1/19/2011 10:14 PM, CW wrote:
>
>> Hot dogs are pretty moist. When he demonstrated it with his finger, he
>> soaks
>> in water first. When woodworking, my hands get dry as a bone. Try a dry
>> finger.
>
> Doesn't it use capacitance as the switch mechanism?
>
> With capacitance touch switches a dry finger shouldn't make much
> practical difference, otherwise you would not get a stylus to work
> effectively on a capacitance touch screen.
The question then is why doesn't it trip on dry lumber and there's the
override for using it with PT lumber that is wet?
I'm on slow connection so hadn't tried to see the demo as bandwidth
makes it too painful--did he actually wet the finger before the test in
the demo? That's telling if so that wanted to be _real_sure_now_ (tm)
I'd think if so... :)
--
Swingman wrote:
> On 1/20/2011 9:33 AM, dpb wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 1/19/2011 10:14 PM, CW wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hot dogs are pretty moist. When he demonstrated it with his finger,
>>>> he soaks
>>>> in water first. When woodworking, my hands get dry as a bone. Try a dry
>>>> finger.
>>>
>>> Doesn't it use capacitance as the switch mechanism?
>>>
>>> With capacitance touch switches a dry finger shouldn't make much
>>> practical difference, otherwise you would not get a stylus to work
>>> effectively on a capacitance touch screen.
>>
>> The question then is why doesn't it trip on dry lumber and there's the
>> override for using it with PT lumber that is wet?
>
> Something about moisture content increasing the lumbers dialectric
> properties (involving dielectric constant) as an insulator and affecting
> the ultimate "capacitance" of the human body and the blade as conductors??
>
> Shheeeesh ... haven't taken physics in almost 50 years and "capacitance"
> was one of those properties that you thought you had a handle on until
> you tried to expound on what you thought you knew (and nothing,
> apparently, has changed in the interim). :-)
>
> I do remember that it was always the exact opposite of intuitive,
> especially when using an example like the capacitance of the human body,
> and a door knob, as conductors generating a spark when being separated
> by a dielectric medium like "dry" air, and why it changed with "moist" air.
...
Never did touch on the specifics of the body capacitance so I don't have
a feel at all on it; wasn't in the NE curriculum... :)
It is related to the makeup of the body tissue which is mostly water I'm
pretty certain, but afaik it is not dependent on actual moisture on the
surface (altho I'm certain that would undoubtedly increase the sensitivity).
AFAIK, the touch screens are active, not passive sensors...
I did a little (as in very little :) ) search for some internet physics
that could be applicable but found nothing of any real value--the
wikipedia articles on related subjects are subs only and very poor ones
at that. A couple of the proximity sensor data sheets were pretty good
on the active sensors, but didn't find anything on a passive sensor that
seemed as if might be something similar to the Sawstop technology...
'Tis still a puzzle --
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy..." -- Will the Speare
pretty well summed it up... :)
--
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 06:51:45 -0500, "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Kimosabe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:35853182-d2e9-417f-b6a9-82e44be15ad7@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> Sawstop shown in Time Warp photography.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>
>
>I've seen the hotdog demonstration many times and often wondered "if it's so
>great, why isn't anyone using their finger instead of a hotdog?" Now I know.
>
>In order to instill faith in a product, it's creator must apply a true life
>scenario. He did, I'm convinced.
>
>Good video.
What I haven't seen yet is a real-life slip and a quick hand into the
whole blade. I'll bet it would do a whole lot more damage, albeit
saving most of the hand.
--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air...
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:48:00 -0500, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote:
>
>"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:c66db301-cf2d-4b0a-88d2-71c13749c4d9@r16g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>> Right, Solomon, they should have tried cutting a baby in half.
>>>
>>> There was no trick. There also was no stupidity.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, it fricking works. I still want them to hire the guys from
>> Jackass to do it with a really important body part...
>
>Probably not dangerous enough. Or stupid enough.
>
>Those guys from Jackass are stoooopid!
Are you guys talking about some fascinating teevee type personalities?
One of the 500 channels of pure, unadulterated pestilence, 7/24/365?
--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air...
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:48:52 -0500, Steve
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2011-01-18 09:35:03 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Particularly if it didn't reach the blade to start with ....
>
>The punch line is "Cold -- and deep!"
<g> That's a proper river, Cowboy.
--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air...
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> IIR when you get cut the wound instantly becomes moist. IIRC there never
> has been a claim of getting off "scott free" with out a nick. ;~)
Another thought I've had comes to testing it out. I know a finger is the
optimal testing body part, but if I was going to test it out just for
myself, I'd use the side of my arm. Less nerves present and certainly less
pain on a fleshy skin surface.
> I've seen the hotdog demonstration many times and often wondered "if it's
> so
> great, why isn't anyone using their finger instead of a hotdog?" Now I
> know.
>
> In order to instill faith in a product, it's creator must apply a true
> life scenario. He did, I'm convinced.
That reminds me of the demo the guy that invented the ground fault
interrupter circuit was to said have done.
He grabbed one hot 120V wire, with the ground in a pool, and jumped in.
Balls, in both cases.
--
Jim in NC
...and very rich
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Those guys from Jackass are stoooopid!