Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finishing
the raw stuff?
I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But I'm
doing the install so...
Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling about it.
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
V8013-R
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
>> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in
>> finishing
>> the raw stuff?
>>
>
> I've never seen a piece of pre-finished flooring that didn't have a slight
> bevel on all the edges of the face side of each board. The pre-finished
> still looks good to me, but if you want a perfectly flat/even floor (no
> crumb/dirt catchers) then I'd say unfinished would be the way to go.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> [email protected]
They can't make prefinished without that bevel. You would have two 90 deg
edges meeting and anywhere they weren't perfectly flush height-wise (and
that would be everywhere) you would have splinters coming off.
jc
p.s. post-installation finished floors are only perfectly flat until the
first season changes.
On Mar 28, 7:18=A0am, "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 26, 12:11 pm, "Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> > unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finish=
ing
> > the raw stuff?
>
> > I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>
> > I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But I'm
> > doing the install so...
>
> > Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling abou=
t
> > it.
>
> > Regards,
> > Joe Agro, Jr.
> > (800) 871-5022
> > 01.908.542.0244
> > Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
> > Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com
> > Production Tapping:http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
> > Flagship Site:http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
> > VIDEOS:http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
>
> > V8013-R
>
> My wife and I installed about 850sf of pre-finished 3/4" solid Oak
> flooring about 14 months ago. =A0It was our first experience with real
> wood flooring, and it took some time, but I didn't consider it
> terribly difficult. =A0It took about four days to lay, including one day
> that was about 1/2 lost because of a nail gun malfunction. =A0We used a
> pneumatic flooring nailer. =A0I have laid Pergo-style flooring on a
> couple of occasions and hardwood does go down slower.
>
> After 14 months the floor looks great, with the exception of a couple
> of minor dings received during moving........... Oh, and that dropped
> pizza stone incident :^}
>
> On the other hand, in spite of using felt and installing the Christmas-
> tree nails on 8" centers (every other into a joist) we are starting to
> develop a few squeaks in higher traffic areas. =A0I am waiting to spring
> to see if this situation is seasonal or not. =A0We heat with wood so
> some areas get rather warm and dry during the winter.
>
> RonB
>
> did you try to cause/fix squeaks in the subfloor before laying the hardwo=
od
> down? =A0I'll usually end up shooting a few pounds of screws to refasten =
the
> sub where the original nails loosened up.
No, but I suspect it is the hardwood. Our contractor glued and
screwed the subfloor down when they installed.
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Basically what I am saying here is that the permanent upgrades should not
> have to be replaced. Laminated floors and carpet will eventually show wear
> and need to be replaced. You cannot rejuvenate carpet or Pergo.
I've been lurking on this thread, as it's pertinent to our situation.
Insurance claim for water damage, about 500 sq ft of hardwood to be
replaced in living room and dining room (continuous floor, so it all
comes out).
Thanks to everyone who's contributed. It's been a great help.
What's coming out is thin strip oak. We've spent about 10 days with
samples spread all over the place.
We finally settled on Jatoba ("Brazilian Cherry"), real wood, with a
matte finish.
Now we just have to choose baseboards, paint, and tile to go in front
of the garden door.
Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
entire decor!
In article <[email protected]>, Joe
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Be aware if you're putting the brazilian cherry in yourself. It is *very*
> prone to splitting when you drive the fasteners (nails or staples). Many
> times, I've had the entire tongue split off when I've driven the first
> fastener.
>
> Not trying to talk you out of it, it's beautiful stuff, just want you to be
> aware.
Thanks for the heads up, Joe.
As this is an insurance job, I'm working with the general contractor my
insurance company recommended, and with the flooring installer he uses.
All three of them are well known here with good reputations.
So I'll let the pros do it, and I will look for any sign of splits
before I sign off.
I'm not surprised, actually. The stuff is high on the hardness chart.
In article <[email protected]>, Lee Michaels
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Dave Balderstone" wrote
> >
> > Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
> > entire decor!
> >
> Don't keep us in suspense. What happened to the little fishies?
Nothing to the fishies... It was 5 out of a 35 gallon tank. But when
the contractor said "If it was tap water I'd say sand and refinish, but
it's dirty water, so best to rip it out." who was I to argue.
In fact, ripping and replacing is faster and less intrusive!
In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:08:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>
> >I've been lurking on this thread, as it's pertinent to our situation.
> >Insurance claim for water damage, about 500 sq ft of hardwood to be
> >replaced in living room and dining room (continuous floor, so it all
> >comes out).
>
> Are you on concrete? A few gallons of water shouldn't have damaged
> oak flooring unless it was soaked in it. How long was it wet?
We don't know. Several hours, anyway. Discovered it at 6 am on a Monday
morning.
About 30 sq ft of 1.5" boards are seriously cupped.
> Jatoba's happenin'.
It's sure purty lookin'
> >Now we just have to choose baseboards, paint, and tile to go in front
> >of the garden door.
>
> Painted baseboard makes a nice contrast to the wood.
We're going to go get some paint chips this morning. I still have the
flooring sample. But we can wait till the floor's down before making
final colour decisions.
> >Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
> >entire decor!
>
> Aquariums can be mighty expensive.
No shit, Sherlock. I got a deal a couple of weeks ago on some fish I've
wanted to have again (last had them when I in high school), tiger
oscars. Fellow had a pair he was letting go for $10 each.
10 - 10.5 inches long, they is. They'd sell retail for $100 - $150
apiece.
Put them in the 35 gallon tank and realized it was just too small.
$500 later...
In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:21:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
snip
> >About 30 sq ft of 1.5" boards are seriously cupped.
>
> Amazing. 4-6" boards I can see cupping, but not those toothpicks.
> Try putting a finish on the replacement wood, eh? ;-/
>
> I think the contractor called it right. Replacement valid.
Yeah. Dirty water he said. Bacteria, fungus...
snip
> >We're going to go get some paint chips this morning. I still have the
> >flooring sample. But we can wait till the floor's down before making
> >final colour decisions.
>
> Go light so the contrast is high. Maybe that Jewish ceiling color,
> beige? Booful! <gd&r>
We collected the paint chips this morning, and we's of the same frame
of mind. High contrast. We are thinking about one accent wall. We can
wait until the floor is down before picking colours. Leaning towards a
very subtle, very pale blue.
> >> >Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
> >> >entire decor!
> >>
> >> Aquariums can be mighty expensive.
> >
> >No shit, Sherlock. I got a deal a couple of weeks ago on some fish I've
> >wanted to have again (last had them when I in high school), tiger
> >oscars. Fellow had a pair he was letting go for $10 each.
>
> Oscars, eh? The effeminate piranha of the aquarium world.
Chuck you, Farley!
Oscars ain't no effeminature of any kind! They is the Labradors of the
aquarium world, 'scept they don't shed.
What other fish will wag its tail when it sees you, and perform "UP!"
to get fed?
Harumph.
snip
> Don't worry. You're not even close to being done yet. Wait until you
> discover reefs and saltwater aquariums. ;)
Oh, I learned about salty water tanks 35 years ago, C-less. WAY too
spendy for me.
In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Speaking of which, anyone have a cordless blower they want to get rid
> of, cheap
I used to go out with one, in my college days... You can have her if
you can find her.
In article <[email protected]>, LDosser
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Saltwater Toby. And most other puffers.
Freshwater puffer was what killed my first oscar... He got all the
deaders from the other tanks, guppies, etc, and I just forgot...
Mouthed the puffer a couple of times, spit it out, went into
convulsions, dead inside of 15 minutes.
35 years ago, and I still remember it frame by frame...
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 20:38:01 -0700, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>
>
>>>Weed-Eater
>>
>> Speaking of which, anyone have a cordless blower they want to get
>> rid
>> of, cheap?
>
>---------------------------------
>Two for one deal.
>
>You get the leaf blower along with the Mexican National on whose back
>it is strapped.
>
>You are on your own to get any required environmental approvals.
Hey, it's twofer day!
Congratulations, sir. With a single post, you turn yourself into both
a hypocrite and a bigot, Lew. <shaking head slowly>
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/26/10 4:41 PM, Leon wrote:
>
> Have you walked on the stuff? It's nice. I'd like to line the shop with
> it.
Yes I have! Very quiet and soft so to speak. A lot like linoleum.
> Heck, if it wears out, you could put Pergo right over it. :-)
Yeah . ;~)
There is nothing wrong with any of the products as long as you realize their
life expectancy.
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finishing
> the raw stuff?
>
I've never seen a piece of pre-finished flooring that didn't have a
slight bevel on all the edges of the face side of each board. The
pre-finished still looks good to me, but if you want a perfectly
flat/even floor (no crumb/dirt catchers) then I'd say unfinished would
be the way to go.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Nova <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
>> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in
>> finishing the raw stuff?
>>
>
> I've never seen a piece of pre-finished flooring that didn't have a
> slight bevel on all the edges of the face side of each board. The
> pre-finished still looks good to me, but if you want a perfectly
> flat/even floor (no crumb/dirt catchers) then I'd say unfinished would
> be the way to go.
>
Some of the ones have huge bevels on the sides (so you could install it
over grass in the yard?) and it takes a while to find one with a minimal
bevel. We finally found some maple with only a small bevel and that's
what's in the living room.
In other rooms, we put in engineered hardwood. It looks good, and
doesn't have those annoying bevels.
Just about the only unfinished I've seen around here (except maybe
through specialty stores) has been the red oak at Menards. The
prefinished is much more available. (Sometimes you can get enough of the
color you want on sale, too.)
My sister has cork in her house, and it doesn't feel any different than
regular materials and looks to be holding up ok. It still does groove
and dent if you, say, roll a chair over the same spot.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
Joe wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>Actually the "Pergo Laminate" flooring is very similar to "Fromica" it
>>>>is
>>>>not Wood. Pergo may be making a wood floor now days but Pergo is
>>>>commonly
>>>>known as a laminate.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I think Pergo got a foothold in the industry, early, and now people just
>>>use it like they say, "Kleenex."
>>
>>
>>Yes.. Crecent wrench, Skil Saw, Coke, Channel Lock, Pergo, Formica,
>>Etc.
>>
>
>
> Xerox, Scotch tape
>
> any more anyone?
>
>
Q-tip
ViceGrip
Asprin
Yo-Yo
Thermos
Crock-Pot...
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
"Larry Jaques" wrote:
>>Weed-Eater
>
> Speaking of which, anyone have a cordless blower they want to get
> rid
> of, cheap?
---------------------------------
Two for one deal.
You get the leaf blower along with the Mexican National on whose back
it is strapped.
You are on your own to get any required environmental approvals.
Lew
I took a look see at the new City Center in Las Vegas about a week ago
and there's one area with a stair case and pavillion all done up in
dark wood and brass inset. I'm pretty sure the wood is some kind of
pre-finished material. It looked pretty good (not hand rubbed teaked
good) and I wonder what kind of maintenance it receives beyond an
ocassional wipe down? The same material appears to be used for both
the stair treads, risers and walls / handrails. The relatively high
contact treads look just as smooth and shiny as the walls.
I don't know the name of this area of City Center but it is next to
the whirlpool water tubes and part of the "copper wire hut."
I wonder how this "tough wood" would hold up if placed at a building
entrance where people will track in slush and grit?
PsS
--------------------------------------------------------------------
A fictional account of how to drastically reform the financial world...
More at http://PinstripeSniper.blogspot.com and if that gets banned, check
www.PinstripeSniper.com
On Mar 26, 12:11=A0pm, "Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finishin=
g
> the raw stuff?
>
> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>
> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... =A0But I'=
m
> doing the install so...
>
> Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling about =
it.
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com
> Production Tapping:http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
> Flagship Site:http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
> VIDEOS:http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
>
> V8013-R
My wife and I installed about 850sf of pre-finished 3/4" solid Oak
flooring about 14 months ago. It was our first experience with real
wood flooring, and it took some time, but I didn't consider it
terribly difficult. It took about four days to lay, including one day
that was about 1/2 lost because of a nail gun malfunction. We used a
pneumatic flooring nailer. I have laid Pergo-style flooring on a
couple of occasions and hardwood does go down slower.
After 14 months the floor looks great, with the exception of a couple
of minor dings received during moving........... Oh, and that dropped
pizza stone incident :^}
On the other hand, in spite of using felt and installing the Christmas-
tree nails on 8" centers (every other into a joist) we are starting to
develop a few squeaks in higher traffic areas. I am waiting to spring
to see if this situation is seasonal or not. We heat with wood so
some areas get rather warm and dry during the winter.
RonB
"Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finishing
> the raw stuff?
>
> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>
> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But I'm
> doing the install so...
I installed "engineered" Maple flooring in my bathroom about 6~7 years ago.
Holding up very well. "Engineered" wood flooring is all wood but made like
plywood. The finish has a 25 year warranty IIRC, the top layer is supposed
to be thick enough to sand down and refinish if that ever needed to be done.
My floor floats and was no harder to install than something like Pergo.
>
> Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling about
> it.
A flooring company that sells solid hard wood flooring, engineered hard wood
flooring, carpet, tile, and laminate/Pergo style flooring told me that only
real wood floors and ceramic style tile are considered permanent upgrades.
Everything else will have to be replaced, eventually.
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in
> finishing the raw stuff?
>
> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>
> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But
> I'm doing the install so...
>
> Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling
> about it.
Pergo is not "fake" stuff. The top 1/32 to 3/8" is real hardwood. The rest
is mystery wood. It's like veneered plywood with two exceptions: The
substrate is layered in different directions to virtually eliminate warping
and it's covered with an impregnable finish.
"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Mar 26, 12:11 pm, "Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finishing
> the raw stuff?
>
> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>
> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But I'm
> doing the install so...
>
> Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling about
> it.
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com
> Production Tapping:http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
> Flagship Site:http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
> VIDEOS:http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
>
> V8013-R
My wife and I installed about 850sf of pre-finished 3/4" solid Oak
flooring about 14 months ago. It was our first experience with real
wood flooring, and it took some time, but I didn't consider it
terribly difficult. It took about four days to lay, including one day
that was about 1/2 lost because of a nail gun malfunction. We used a
pneumatic flooring nailer. I have laid Pergo-style flooring on a
couple of occasions and hardwood does go down slower.
After 14 months the floor looks great, with the exception of a couple
of minor dings received during moving........... Oh, and that dropped
pizza stone incident :^}
On the other hand, in spite of using felt and installing the Christmas-
tree nails on 8" centers (every other into a joist) we are starting to
develop a few squeaks in higher traffic areas. I am waiting to spring
to see if this situation is seasonal or not. We heat with wood so
some areas get rather warm and dry during the winter.
RonB
did you try to cause/fix squeaks in the subfloor before laying the hardwood
down? I'll usually end up shooting a few pounds of screws to refasten the
sub where the original nails loosened up.
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
>> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in
>> finishing the raw stuff?
>>
>> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>>
>> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But
>> I'm doing the install so...
>>
>> Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling
>> about it.
>
> Pergo is not "fake" stuff. The top 1/32 to 3/8" is real hardwood. The rest
> is mystery wood. It's like veneered plywood with two exceptions: The
> substrate is layered in different directions to virtually eliminate
> warping and it's covered with an impregnable finish.
.
Actually the "Pergo Laminate" flooring is very similar to "Fromica" it is
not Wood. Pergo may be making a wood floor now days but Pergo is commonly
known as a laminate.
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:260320101808055432%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Basically what I am saying here is that the permanent upgrades should not
>> have to be replaced. Laminated floors and carpet will eventually show
>> wear
>> and need to be replaced. You cannot rejuvenate carpet or Pergo.
>
> I've been lurking on this thread, as it's pertinent to our situation.
> Insurance claim for water damage, about 500 sq ft of hardwood to be
> replaced in living room and dining room (continuous floor, so it all
> comes out).
>
> Thanks to everyone who's contributed. It's been a great help.
>
> What's coming out is thin strip oak. We've spent about 10 days with
> samples spread all over the place.
>
> We finally settled on Jatoba ("Brazilian Cherry"), real wood, with a
> matte finish.
>
Dave,
Be aware if you're putting the brazilian cherry in yourself. It is *very*
prone to splitting when you drive the fasteners (nails or staples). Many
times, I've had the entire tongue split off when I've driven the first
fastener.
Not trying to talk you out of it, it's beautiful stuff, just want you to be
aware.
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/26/10 1:35 PM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> A flooring company that sells solid hard wood flooring, engineered hard
>> wood
>> flooring, carpet, tile, and laminate/Pergo style flooring told me that
>> only
>> real wood floors and ceramic style tile are considered permanent
>> upgrades.
>> Everything else will have to be replaced, eventually.
>>
>
> Interesting. I guess that would certainly depends on the product *and*
> installation.
> Many of us have seen bad solid hardwood floor product/installation that
> took less work to replace than repair/refinish.
>
> Some of the engineered stuff I've seen, had close to 3/16 hardwood top
> veneer, with the stain penetrating the entire ply. You could sand and
> refinish that stuff without re-staining.
>
> My wife is in love with Cork for the kitchen. I'm looking into it. I
> like the 1'x3' and longer sizes I'm seeing, too. Seems like installation
> with one man could be done in a day.
>
>
> --
A kitchen in a day alone? It'd be a heck of a day, what with toe kick
removal, installing under cabinet fronts, under fridge, under dishwasher,
along edges of cabinets, toe kick re-install, the multitude of doorways and
thresholds in most kitchens, pantry, etc etc...
Been there many times, done that, and now I charge quite a premium for it...
:-)
jc
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/26/10 2:54 PM, Joe wrote:
>>> My wife is in love with Cork for the kitchen. I'm looking into it. I
>>> like the 1'x3' and longer sizes I'm seeing, too. Seems like installation
>>> with one man could be done in a day.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> A kitchen in a day alone? It'd be a heck of a day, what with toe kick
>> removal, installing under cabinet fronts, under fridge, under dishwasher,
>> along edges of cabinets, toe kick re-install, the multitude of doorways
>> and
>> thresholds in most kitchens, pantry, etc etc...
>>
>> Been there many times, done that, and now I charge quite a premium for
>> it...
>> :-)
>>
>> jc
>>
>
> I was speaking of the install, alone, and probably the trim.
> Since I would be doing it, myself, I'm thinking in segments that I would
> likely break it into. And it's a small kitchen.
> - Day of prep, tear out vinyl floor, old trim.... all of it, casement,
> base, everything, because I'm replacing and/or making it all.
> - Day of installing Cork floor, and probably trim, or partial trim.
> - Day of finishing up and determining that rest of house looks ugly by
> comparison... lamenting that we should've never even considered it
> because now we're going to have to do the living-room in hardwood, with
> new trim everywhere... and I hate those windows..... oh crap. :-)
>
>
Your day 3 is 100% accurate :-)
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>> Actually the "Pergo Laminate" flooring is very similar to "Fromica" it
>> is
>> not Wood. Pergo may be making a wood floor now days but Pergo is
>> commonly
>> known as a laminate.
>>
>
> I think Pergo got a foothold in the industry, early, and now people just
> use it like they say, "Kleenex."
Yes.. Crecent wrench, Skil Saw, Coke, Channel Lock, Pergo, Formica, Etc.
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joe wrote:
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>>Actually the "Pergo Laminate" flooring is very similar to "Fromica" it
>>>>>is
>>>>>not Wood. Pergo may be making a wood floor now days but Pergo is
>>>>>commonly
>>>>>known as a laminate.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think Pergo got a foothold in the industry, early, and now people just
>>>>use it like they say, "Kleenex."
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes.. Crecent wrench, Skil Saw, Coke, Channel Lock, Pergo, Formica,
>>>Etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Xerox, Scotch tape
>>
>> any more anyone?
>
> Q-tip
> ViceGrip
> Asprin
> Yo-Yo
> Thermos
> Crock-Pot...
Weed-Eater
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/26/10 1:35 PM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> A flooring company that sells solid hard wood flooring, engineered hard
>> wood
>> flooring, carpet, tile, and laminate/Pergo style flooring told me that
>> only
>> real wood floors and ceramic style tile are considered permanent
>> upgrades.
>> Everything else will have to be replaced, eventually.
>>
>
> Interesting. I guess that would certainly depends on the product *and*
> installation.
> Many of us have seen bad solid hardwood floor product/installation that
> took less work to replace than repair/refinish.
Basically what I am saying here is that the permanent upgrades should not
have to be replaced. Laminated floors and carpet will eventually show wear
and need to be replaced. You cannot rejuvenate carpet or Pergo.
>
> Some of the engineered stuff I've seen, had close to 3/16 hardwood top
> veneer, with the stain penetrating the entire ply. You could sand and
> refinish that stuff without re-staining.
Engeneered wood floring is considered permanent. Don't confuse it with
laminate flooring.
>
> My wife is in love with Cork for the kitchen. I'm looking into it. I
> like the 1'x3' and longer sizes I'm seeing, too. Seems like installation
> with one man could be done in a day.
Cork is cool, it was real popular in the late 50's and early 60's, but it
does wear out and tends to eventually show wear tracks.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>>> Actually the "Pergo Laminate" flooring is very similar to "Fromica" it
>>> is
>>> not Wood. Pergo may be making a wood floor now days but Pergo is
>>> commonly
>>> known as a laminate.
>>>
>>
>> I think Pergo got a foothold in the industry, early, and now people just
>> use it like they say, "Kleenex."
>
>
> Yes.. Crecent wrench, Skil Saw, Coke, Channel Lock, Pergo, Formica,
> Etc.
>
Xerox, Scotch tape
any more anyone?
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:58:50 -0500, the infamous "Leon"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Joe wrote:
>>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>>>Actually the "Pergo Laminate" flooring is very similar to "Fromica" it
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>not Wood. Pergo may be making a wood floor now days but Pergo is
>>>>>>commonly
>>>>>>known as a laminate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I think Pergo got a foothold in the industry, early, and now people just
>>>>>use it like they say, "Kleenex."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes.. Crecent wrench, Skil Saw, Coke, Channel Lock, Pergo, Formica,
>>>>Etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Xerox, Scotch tape
>>>
>>> any more anyone?
>>
>> Q-tip
>> ViceGrip
>> Asprin
>> Yo-Yo
>> Thermos
>> Crock-Pot...
>
>
>Weed-Eater
Speaking of which, anyone have a cordless blower they want to get rid
of, cheap?
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
>> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in
>> finishing
>> the raw stuff?
>>
>
> I've never seen a piece of pre-finished flooring that didn't have a slight
> bevel on all the edges of the face side of each board. The pre-finished
> still looks good to me, but if you want a perfectly flat/even floor (no
> crumb/dirt catchers) then I'd say unfinished would be the way to go.
Agreed, However my experience is that prefinished tends to be a bit more
stable. Perfectly flat is temporary as the wood moves.
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 22:37:37 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Speaking of which, anyone have a cordless blower they want to get rid
>> of, cheap
>
>I used to go out with one, in my college days... You can have her if
>you can find her.
If you find her send her down. I'll give her a try.
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
On 3/26/2010 1:11 PM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finishing
> the raw stuff?
>
> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>
> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But I'm
> doing the install so...
>
> Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling about it.
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
> Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
> Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
> VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
>
> V8013-R
>
>
>
>
>
Installed a prefinished wood floor about 3 years ago and it still looks
like it came out of the package yesterday even with a bunch of crumb
cruncher grand kids tearing thru all the time. I , IMHO, didn't find it
any more difficult to install than unfinished other than taking a lot of
time out to change saw blades. The finish will definitely chew thru
blades and it does require sharp ones to come out looking nice. Just
out of curiousity I hit a scrap piece with 60 grit, hand rubbed, and
dust flew every where but after I rubbed the dust off I could barely see
any difference in the finish. Shouldn't have to worry about trying to
refinish it ever but if it gets that bad would probably be easier to
just remove and replace the floor.
On 3/26/10 1:35 PM, Leon wrote:
>
> A flooring company that sells solid hard wood flooring, engineered hard wood
> flooring, carpet, tile, and laminate/Pergo style flooring told me that only
> real wood floors and ceramic style tile are considered permanent upgrades.
> Everything else will have to be replaced, eventually.
>
Interesting. I guess that would certainly depends on the product *and*
installation.
Many of us have seen bad solid hardwood floor product/installation that
took less work to replace than repair/refinish.
Some of the engineered stuff I've seen, had close to 3/16 hardwood top
veneer, with the stain penetrating the entire ply. You could sand and
refinish that stuff without re-staining.
My wife is in love with Cork for the kitchen. I'm looking into it. I
like the 1'x3' and longer sizes I'm seeing, too. Seems like installation
with one man could be done in a day.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 3/26/10 2:54 PM, Joe wrote:
>> My wife is in love with Cork for the kitchen. I'm looking into it. I
>> like the 1'x3' and longer sizes I'm seeing, too. Seems like installation
>> with one man could be done in a day.
>>
>>
>> --
>
> A kitchen in a day alone? It'd be a heck of a day, what with toe kick
> removal, installing under cabinet fronts, under fridge, under dishwasher,
> along edges of cabinets, toe kick re-install, the multitude of doorways and
> thresholds in most kitchens, pantry, etc etc...
>
> Been there many times, done that, and now I charge quite a premium for it...
> :-)
>
> jc
>
I was speaking of the install, alone, and probably the trim.
Since I would be doing it, myself, I'm thinking in segments that I would
likely break it into. And it's a small kitchen.
- Day of prep, tear out vinyl floor, old trim.... all of it, casement,
base, everything, because I'm replacing and/or making it all.
- Day of installing Cork floor, and probably trim, or partial trim.
- Day of finishing up and determining that rest of house looks ugly by
comparison... lamenting that we should've never even considered it
because now we're going to have to do the living-room in hardwood, with
new trim everywhere... and I hate those windows..... oh crap. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 3/26/10 3:17 PM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> p.s. post-installation finished floors are only perfectly flat until the
>> first season changes.
>
> As they say over at St. Michaels in Newark... BINGO!
That's why you sand and re-finish every 6mos, silly.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
HeyBub wrote:
> Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
>> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in
>> finishing the raw stuff?
>>
>> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>>
>> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But
>> I'm doing the install so...
>>
>> Pergo and other "fake stuff" is NOT for me so don't bother telling
>> about it.
>
> Pergo is not "fake" stuff. The top 1/32 to 3/8" is real hardwood. The
> rest is mystery wood. It's like veneered plywood with two exceptions:
> The substrate is layered in different directions to virtually
> eliminate warping and it's covered with an impregnable finish.
you have to distinguish what you're both talking about.
traditional pergo is laminate flooring.
pergo also has hardwood line too, and that top layer is wood. however, the
usual pergo flooring does not have a wood surface.
from wikipedia:
Laminate flooring is a multi-layer synthetic flooring product, fused
together with a lamination process. Laminate flooring simulates wood (or
stone, in some cases) with a photographic applique layer under a clear
protective layer. The inner core layer is usually composed of melamine resin
and fiber board materials. There is sometimes a glue backing for ease of
installation. It has the advantages that it is durable, as compared with
carpet, and attractive, at a lower cost as compared to natural floor
materials.
On 3/26/10 4:41 PM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> Some of the engineered stuff I've seen, had close to 3/16 hardwood top
>> veneer, with the stain penetrating the entire ply. You could sand and
>> refinish that stuff without re-staining.
>
> Engeneered wood floring is considered permanent. Don't confuse it with
> laminate flooring.
>
Alright, we're on the same page.
>>
>> My wife is in love with Cork for the kitchen. I'm looking into it. I
>> like the 1'x3' and longer sizes I'm seeing, too. Seems like installation
>> with one man could be done in a day.
>
>
> Cork is cool, it was real popular in the late 50's and early 60's, but it
> does wear out and tends to eventually show wear tracks.
>
Have you walked on the stuff? It's nice. I'd like to line the shop
with it.
Heck, if it wears out, you could put Pergo right over it. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>
> Actually the "Pergo Laminate" flooring is very similar to "Fromica" it is
> not Wood. Pergo may be making a wood floor now days but Pergo is commonly
> known as a laminate.
>
I think Pergo got a foothold in the industry, early, and now people just
use it like they say, "Kleenex."
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:260320102344236111%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Lee Michaels
> <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> "Dave Balderstone" wrote
>> >
>> > Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
>> > entire decor!
>> >
>> Don't keep us in suspense. What happened to the little fishies?
>
> Nothing to the fishies... It was 5 out of a 35 gallon tank.
While my parents went away for a weekend, they lost 40 gallons from a leak
from a 40 gallon
tank on the second level. Can you say "new ceilings"? Bad day for the
little fishies too...
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:21:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:08:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
>>> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>> >I've been lurking on this thread, as it's pertinent to our situation.
>>> >Insurance claim for water damage, about 500 sq ft of hardwood to be
>>> >replaced in living room and dining room (continuous floor, so it all
>>> >comes out).
>>>
>>> Are you on concrete? A few gallons of water shouldn't have damaged
>>> oak flooring unless it was soaked in it. How long was it wet?
>>
>>We don't know. Several hours, anyway. Discovered it at 6 am on a Monday
>>morning.
>>
>>About 30 sq ft of 1.5" boards are seriously cupped.
>
> Amazing. 4-6" boards I can see cupping, but not those toothpicks.
> Try putting a finish on the replacement wood, eh? ;-/
>
> I think the contractor called it right. Replacement valid.
>
>
>>> Jatoba's happenin'.
>>
>>It's sure purty lookin'
>
> And does, for a whole long time.
>
>
>>> >Now we just have to choose baseboards, paint, and tile to go in front
>>> >of the garden door.
>>>
>>> Painted baseboard makes a nice contrast to the wood.
>>
>>We're going to go get some paint chips this morning. I still have the
>>flooring sample. But we can wait till the floor's down before making
>>final colour decisions.
>
> Go light so the contrast is high. Maybe that Jewish ceiling color,
> beige? Booful! <gd&r>
>
>
>>> >Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
>>> >entire decor!
>>>
>>> Aquariums can be mighty expensive.
>>
>>No shit, Sherlock. I got a deal a couple of weeks ago on some fish I've
>>wanted to have again (last had them when I in high school), tiger
>>oscars. Fellow had a pair he was letting go for $10 each.
>
> Oscars, eh? The effeminate piranha of the aquarium world.
>
>
>>10 - 10.5 inches long, they is. They'd sell retail for $100 - $150
>>apiece.
>>
>>Put them in the 35 gallon tank and realized it was just too small.
>>
>>$500 later...
>
> Don't worry. You're not even close to being done yet. Wait until you
> discover reefs and saltwater aquariums. ;)
Yeah, a Nano Reef will only set you back about $1000. :()
Meantime there's a fight going on in the FW tank ...
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:270320102236346147%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:21:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
>> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>
> snip
>
>> >About 30 sq ft of 1.5" boards are seriously cupped.
>>
>> Amazing. 4-6" boards I can see cupping, but not those toothpicks.
>> Try putting a finish on the replacement wood, eh? ;-/
>>
>> I think the contractor called it right. Replacement valid.
>
> Yeah. Dirty water he said. Bacteria, fungus...
>
> snip
>
>> >We're going to go get some paint chips this morning. I still have the
>> >flooring sample. But we can wait till the floor's down before making
>> >final colour decisions.
>>
>> Go light so the contrast is high. Maybe that Jewish ceiling color,
>> beige? Booful! <gd&r>
>
> We collected the paint chips this morning, and we's of the same frame
> of mind. High contrast. We are thinking about one accent wall. We can
> wait until the floor is down before picking colours. Leaning towards a
> very subtle, very pale blue.
>
>> >> >Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
>> >> >entire decor!
>> >>
>> >> Aquariums can be mighty expensive.
>> >
>> >No shit, Sherlock. I got a deal a couple of weeks ago on some fish I've
>> >wanted to have again (last had them when I in high school), tiger
>> >oscars. Fellow had a pair he was letting go for $10 each.
>>
>> Oscars, eh? The effeminate piranha of the aquarium world.
>
> Chuck you, Farley!
>
> Oscars ain't no effeminature of any kind! They is the Labradors of the
> aquarium world, 'scept they don't shed.
>
> What other fish will wag its tail when it sees you, and perform "UP!"
> to get fed?
Saltwater Toby. And most other puffers.
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:280320100024586390%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
> In article <[email protected]>, LDosser
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Saltwater Toby. And most other puffers.
>
> Freshwater puffer was what killed my first oscar... He got all the
> deaders from the other tanks, guppies, etc, and I just forgot...
>
> Mouthed the puffer a couple of times, spit it out, went into
> convulsions, dead inside of 15 minutes.
>
> 35 years ago, and I still remember it frame by frame...
Oh, Bummer!
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 21:16:30 -0700 (PDT), the infamous RonB
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>My wife and I installed about 850sf of pre-finished 3/4" solid Oak
>flooring about 14 months ago. It was our first experience with real
>wood flooring, and it took some time, but I didn't consider it
>terribly difficult. It took about four days to lay, including one day
>that was about 1/2 lost because of a nail gun malfunction. We used a
>pneumatic flooring nailer. I have laid Pergo-style flooring on a
>couple of occasions and hardwood does go down slower.
Yeah, floating floors are much quicker and easier. We installed a
glue-together floated on the foam bed in a Habitat home a few years
ago. I'm glad the adhesive is a slow-dry type, because we had people
walking across it as we worked and several spaces developed. Luckily,
we were able to pull them back together without a hitch.
>After 14 months the floor looks great, with the exception of a couple
>of minor dings received during moving........... Oh, and that dropped
>pizza stone incident :^}
>
>On the other hand, in spite of using felt and installing the Christmas-
>tree nails on 8" centers (every other into a joist) we are starting to
>develop a few squeaks in higher traffic areas. I am waiting to spring
>to see if this situation is seasonal or not. We heat with wood so
>some areas get rather warm and dry during the winter.
Well, if you didn't glue it down to the wood joists, you'll have
squeaks, period. If I were to do another, I'd glue the boards to
themselves, too. I -abhor- wooden floor squeaks.
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:08:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>In article <[email protected]>, Leon
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Basically what I am saying here is that the permanent upgrades should not
>> have to be replaced. Laminated floors and carpet will eventually show wear
>> and need to be replaced. You cannot rejuvenate carpet or Pergo.
>
>I've been lurking on this thread, as it's pertinent to our situation.
>Insurance claim for water damage, about 500 sq ft of hardwood to be
>replaced in living room and dining room (continuous floor, so it all
>comes out).
Are you on concrete? A few gallons of water shouldn't have damaged
oak flooring unless it was soaked in it. How long was it wet?
>Thanks to everyone who's contributed. It's been a great help.
>
>What's coming out is thin strip oak. We've spent about 10 days with
>samples spread all over the place.
>
>We finally settled on Jatoba ("Brazilian Cherry"), real wood, with a
>matte finish.
I found a box of that at a contractor's garage sale and picked it up
for $25. It is now in my entryway butted up to a horrid, old maroon
carpet. Ithink the old carpet makes it look even better. <g>
Jatoba's happenin'.
>Now we just have to choose baseboards, paint, and tile to go in front
>of the garden door.
Painted baseboard makes a nice contrast to the wood.
>Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
>entire decor!
Aquariums can be mighty expensive.
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
"Joe AutoDrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Any advantage of one or the other when considering pre-finished VS
> unfinished wood flooring other than the obvious work involved in finishing
> the raw stuff?
>
> I'm thinking total cost and durability, etc.
>
> I'm told pre-finished lasts longer but is tougher to install... But I'm
> doing the install so...
The pre-finished stuff is incredibly tough. If in an area of high wear, it
will prove very durable.
> p.s. post-installation finished floors are only perfectly flat until the
> first season changes.
As they say over at St. Michaels in Newark... BINGO!
--
Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
V8013-R
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 05:27:15 -0700 (PDT), the infamous RonB
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>No, but I suspect it is the hardwood. Our contractor glued and
>screwed the subfloor down when they installed.
Was it a termite barf subfloor or plywood? T&G ply tends to squeak a
whole lot less than butted 3/4" plain OSB (which I saw in a million
dollar home once; not glued, either)
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:21:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:08:05 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
>> <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> scrawled the following:
>>
>> >I've been lurking on this thread, as it's pertinent to our situation.
>> >Insurance claim for water damage, about 500 sq ft of hardwood to be
>> >replaced in living room and dining room (continuous floor, so it all
>> >comes out).
>>
>> Are you on concrete? A few gallons of water shouldn't have damaged
>> oak flooring unless it was soaked in it. How long was it wet?
>
>We don't know. Several hours, anyway. Discovered it at 6 am on a Monday
>morning.
>
>About 30 sq ft of 1.5" boards are seriously cupped.
Amazing. 4-6" boards I can see cupping, but not those toothpicks.
Try putting a finish on the replacement wood, eh? ;-/
I think the contractor called it right. Replacement valid.
>> Jatoba's happenin'.
>
>It's sure purty lookin'
And does, for a whole long time.
>> >Now we just have to choose baseboards, paint, and tile to go in front
>> >of the garden door.
>>
>> Painted baseboard makes a nice contrast to the wood.
>
>We're going to go get some paint chips this morning. I still have the
>flooring sample. But we can wait till the floor's down before making
>final colour decisions.
Go light so the contrast is high. Maybe that Jewish ceiling color,
beige? Booful! <gd&r>
>> >Who knew that 5 gallons of water from an aquarium could change our
>> >entire decor!
>>
>> Aquariums can be mighty expensive.
>
>No shit, Sherlock. I got a deal a couple of weeks ago on some fish I've
>wanted to have again (last had them when I in high school), tiger
>oscars. Fellow had a pair he was letting go for $10 each.
Oscars, eh? The effeminate piranha of the aquarium world.
>10 - 10.5 inches long, they is. They'd sell retail for $100 - $150
>apiece.
>
>Put them in the 35 gallon tank and realized it was just too small.
>
>$500 later...
Don't worry. You're not even close to being done yet. Wait until you
discover reefs and saltwater aquariums. ;)
--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-