Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
and I took a decent chunk out of my finger. It apparently got down to
the bone and took a small chip out. The angle of the cut was pretty
lucky, though. There was no tendon damage. Took part of the nail
out, but I was told the part that was cut will grow back.
The worst part of this isn't the (incredibly small amount) of pain, or
the few months of healing. But that I feel like an idiot. This could
have been easily prevent with a pushstick. Hopefully this is a wake
up call to me.
The injury could have been much worse. The blade was only up about
1/4", and was cutting a rabbit in a small board, about 8x10 in. I was
happily running the board through when I believe it began to bind up,
then it suddenly kicked back. Not sure if the board pushed my finger
into the blade, or if I slipped when the board kicked back. It all
happened so fast. My hand was a good 6-7" away when I was making the
cut. I didn't even realize I was cut until the blood started
dripping. I thought the board came back and bashed into my finder,
and numbed it. No such luck.
Anyway, thought I'd share my story.
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
> and I took a decent chunk out of my finger.
Sorry to hear of this. You say a push stick could have saved you, but why
did it bind up to begin with? Splitter in place? Pawls used?
Perhaps you can save another finger for the rest of us if you know the
cause.
Ed
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 04:21:42 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> how do you use a splitter when you are rabbeting, Ed?? I'd like to see
>> that! :)
>>
>> dave
>
>Guess I wasn't paying attention again.
>Ed
Yeah, the root of all accidents (glum look on face). Been there, done
that, got the tee shirt.
Good to hear you didn't lose a finger. It happens so fast and in my case, I
still swear my finger wasn't near the blade when it was butterflied. I was
ripping bunches of small strips. I would push it through using my right
hand and a push stick, then I would reach behind the blade with my left to
retrieve it. After several hundred of these, obviously I must have gotten
lazy, although I still say my finger was nowhere near the blade, and I still
don't know how it happened. I apparently drug my left forefinger across the
blade as I brought back the ripped piece. Man, what a sick sound it makes
when your finger is being mangled by the blade. It butterflied my finger
from the tip, up near to the first knuckle. Fortunately, it was next to the
bone and I was using a Woodworker II. I still think the finger cleared the
blade and I still can't figure out how it got cut.
And don't even start posting about using guards, safety guidelines and other
BS. I do this for money, so I am allowed operator stupidity in the pursuit
of fast production. Of course, I won't mention the two weeks I sat at home
watching Oprah, Rosie and Jerry Springer while I was waiting for it to heal.
Oh well.
Preston
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
> and I took a decent chunk out of my finger. It apparently got down to
> the bone and took a small chip out. The angle of the cut was pretty
> lucky, though. There was no tendon damage. Took part of the nail
> out, but I was told the part that was cut will grow back.
>
>
I think you'd better start slow. The trio you mentioned diminishes your IQ
one point per hour watched....
"Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> And don't even start posting about using guards, safety guidelines and
other
> BS. I do this for money, so I am allowed operator stupidity in the
pursuit
> of fast production. Of course, I won't mention the two weeks I sat at
home
> watching Oprah, Rosie and Jerry Springer while I was waiting for it to
heal.
> Oh well.
>
> Preston
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<%[email protected]>...
> "Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> > my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
> > and I took a decent chunk out of my finger.
>
> Sorry to hear of this. You say a push stick could have saved you, but why
> did it bind up to begin with? Splitter in place? Pawls used?
>
> Perhaps you can save another finger for the rest of us if you know the
> cause.
As someone else mentioned, I was rabbiting. Good question of why it
bound up. I'll have to go see if thefence is out of alignment. I
looked at the board itself, and there's a dent in it where my finger
fits nicely. So it looks like the board kicked back into my finger,
and then knocked my finger into the blade.
<snip my own message>
> The worst part of this isn't the (incredibly small amount) of pain, or
> the few months of healing. But that I feel like an idiot. This could
> have been easily prevent with a pushstick. Hopefully this is a wake
> up call to me.
Well, I'm healing up nicely. The stitches are out, still bandaged of
course. No pain, but some numb areas on my finger. all in all,
pretty lucky.
I haven't done any work since the accident, although I went to take a
look at what might have happened. I pulled out my trustly aligner Jr,
and discovered that the blade was a ful .015" out of alignment from
the front to the rear of the blade, pinching the work toward the fence
at the rear. The fence was in perfect alignment to the miter slot.
So I think the board bound up because of this, causing the kickback
which hit into my finger, which was knocked into the blade.
Simple precautions could have prevented this, suffice to say. Not
sure why the blade was out of alignment in the first place. I check
it once in a while and it's never been out before.
I'm guessing the board was between the fence and the blade, pulled
away from (or was pinched by) the fence, and kicked back. If so,
maybe next time you could use Norm's method, clamp a "sacrificial"
board to the fence and cut the rabbet along the fence side of your
workpiece.
[email protected] (Larry Bud) wrote:
>As someone else mentioned, I was rabbiting. Good question of why it
>bound up. I'll have to go see if thefence is out of alignment. I
>looked at the board itself, and there's a dent in it where my finger
>fits nicely. So it looks like the board kicked back into my finger,
>and then knocked my finger into the blade.
ouch! Hopefully you have no lasting damage, and will use more caution
when you get back out there, to prevent worse accidents that will put
you out for longer. Just don't take up watching soap operas while on
the mend.
dave
Mowgli wrote:
> I'm not typing too fast because I took a chance once too many times with my
> bandsaw. I got 11 stitches across the knuckles of my right index & fuck
> fingers. Yes, I'm a righty. The seamstress said she didn't see any tendon
> damage but it hurts like a bastard. I'll find out Friday when I visit the
> hand surgeon. Stupid accident from stupid practice. I read and read and do
> shortcuts (huhuh no pun there) anyways. My bad, my pain.
>
> I'll post a scanned pic to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
>
> A piece of wood caught my parting tool a couple of months ago and bashed my
> thumbnail against the toolrest about 30 times in about a half second. No
> shortcut, just didn't know any better. I was chainsawing the next day to
> make sure I didn't develop
> thrown-off-the-horse-and-didn't-get-back-on-so-now-I'm-scared-to-death-of-the-damn-thing
> syndrome. Maybe it worked too well and I got cocky. I'm not cocky anymore.
> Well at least not in the shop. I saved about 30 minutes over time by not
> using a push stick. Now I'm out of commission for at least a week. I'm going
> to try to refrain from WW for 2 weeks or until I am obviously healed enough
> but, well you know...we'll see how long I can refrain.
>
> Thank God it wasn't the table saw. I was really shoving it in. I read
> somewhere once upon a time that sharp blades are better. I thought about
> changing it that morning but nooooo....
> I'll try following the advice of people more experienced and disciplined
> than me and try to keep the red stuff on the inside from now on.
>
> Shortcuts cause short cuts. or something...
>
> Mowgli
Just remember. Thats why God gave you nine spares ! Just
don't use them all up too quickly.
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
> and I took a decent chunk out of my finger. It apparently got down to
> the bone and took a small chip out. The angle of the cut was pretty
> lucky, though. There was no tendon damage. Took part of the nail
> out, but I was told the part that was cut will grow back.
>
> The worst part of this isn't the (incredibly small amount) of pain, or
> the few months of healing. But that I feel like an idiot. This could
> have been easily prevent with a pushstick. Hopefully this is a wake
> up call to me.
>
> The injury could have been much worse. The blade was only up about
> 1/4", and was cutting a rabbit in a small board, about 8x10 in. I was
> happily running the board through when I believe it began to bind up,
> then it suddenly kicked back. Not sure if the board pushed my finger
> into the blade, or if I slipped when the board kicked back. It all
> happened so fast. My hand was a good 6-7" away when I was making the
> cut. I didn't even realize I was cut until the blood started
> dripping. I thought the board came back and bashed into my finder,
> and numbed it. No such luck.
>
> Anyway, thought I'd share my story.
how do you use a splitter when you are rabbeting, Ed?? I'd like to see
that! :)
dave
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
>>my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
>>and I took a decent chunk out of my finger.
>
>
> Sorry to hear of this. You say a push stick could have saved you, but why
> did it bind up to begin with? Splitter in place? Pawls used?
>
> Perhaps you can save another finger for the rest of us if you know the
> cause.
> Ed
>
>
No... I think the pain and months of healing is the worst part.
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
> and I took a decent chunk out of my finger. It apparently got down to
> the bone and took a small chip out. The angle of the cut was pretty
> lucky, though. There was no tendon damage. Took part of the nail
> out, but I was told the part that was cut will grow back.
>
> The worst part of this isn't the (incredibly small amount) of pain, or
> the few months of healing. But that I feel like an idiot. This could
> have been easily prevent with a pushstick. Hopefully this is a wake
> up call to me.
>
> The injury could have been much worse. The blade was only up about
> 1/4", and was cutting a rabbit in a small board, about 8x10 in. I was
> happily running the board through when I believe it began to bind up,
> then it suddenly kicked back. Not sure if the board pushed my finger
> into the blade, or if I slipped when the board kicked back. It all
> happened so fast. My hand was a good 6-7" away when I was making the
> cut. I didn't even realize I was cut until the blood started
> dripping. I thought the board came back and bashed into my finder,
> and numbed it. No such luck.
>
> Anyway, thought I'd share my story.
A "red" tee-shirt?
dave
Lazarus Long wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 04:21:42 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>how do you use a splitter when you are rabbeting, Ed?? I'd like to see
>>>that! :)
>>>
>>>dave
>>
>>Guess I wasn't paying attention again.
>>Ed
>
>
>
> Yeah, the root of all accidents (glum look on face). Been there, done
> that, got the tee shirt.
>
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:39:12 GMT, Bay Area Dave's fingers viciously stabbed
at an innocent keyboard to form the now famous if slightly awkward haiku:
>ouch! Hopefully you have no lasting damage, and will use more caution
>when you get back out there, to prevent worse accidents that will put
>you out for longer. Just don't take up watching soap operas while on
>the mend.
>
>dave
>
Even worse,
I discovered Ebay! And I'm out of work!
There's gotta be a 12 step program for Ebayaholics :/
Mowgli
Thanks for your honesty! Most, if not all, of us have had the same
experience; some got cut and some didn't.
On 15 Nov 2003 12:59:57 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bud)
wrote:
>Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
>my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
>and I took a decent chunk out of my finger. It apparently got down to
>the bone and took a small chip out. The angle of the cut was pretty
>lucky, though. There was no tendon damage. Took part of the nail
>out, but I was told the part that was cut will grow back.
>
>The worst part of this isn't the (incredibly small amount) of pain, or
>the few months of healing. But that I feel like an idiot. This could
>have been easily prevent with a pushstick. Hopefully this is a wake
>up call to me.
>
>The injury could have been much worse. The blade was only up about
>1/4", and was cutting a rabbit in a small board, about 8x10 in. I was
>happily running the board through when I believe it began to bind up,
>then it suddenly kicked back. Not sure if the board pushed my finger
>into the blade, or if I slipped when the board kicked back. It all
>happened so fast. My hand was a good 6-7" away when I was making the
>cut. I didn't even realize I was cut until the blood started
>dripping. I thought the board came back and bashed into my finder,
>and numbed it. No such luck.
>
>Anyway, thought I'd share my story.
I wasn't so lucky, I lost the ring finger on my left hand down to the first
knuckle (from the hand).
I was using a long push stick (about a 12") which ended up being caugth by
the blade pulling my hand into the wobble dado blade; can we say ouch! The
funny part is I never felt a thing, never went into "full" shock, and never
passed out. The finger was destroyed, all the paramedic could say was,
"...get in the abulance..." but I have payed my dues since! I ended up with
25+ stiches, no finger, and a hand that is still pretty much useless. The
pain has come and gone since and the "phantom" pain is probably the
strangest part of all. There is just something not rioght about the part
being gone hurting the worst. The use of my left hand is coming back,
fortunately I am right handed, but I still can't close my hand or grip
things too tight.
It took me two months before I went near thew table saw again and am now
v-e-r-y wary of the moving blade.
A new motto, "Think twice, don't cut at all!". <:-)
Cheers
Bob
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
> and I took a decent chunk out of my finger. It apparently got down to
> the bone and took a small chip out. The angle of the cut was pretty
> lucky, though. There was no tendon damage. Took part of the nail
> out, but I was told the part that was cut will grow back.
>
> The worst part of this isn't the (incredibly small amount) of pain, or
> the few months of healing. But that I feel like an idiot. This could
> have been easily prevent with a pushstick. Hopefully this is a wake
> up call to me.
>
> The injury could have been much worse. The blade was only up about
> 1/4", and was cutting a rabbit in a small board, about 8x10 in. I was
> happily running the board through when I believe it began to bind up,
> then it suddenly kicked back. Not sure if the board pushed my finger
> into the blade, or if I slipped when the board kicked back. It all
> happened so fast. My hand was a good 6-7" away when I was making the
> cut. I didn't even realize I was cut until the blood started
> dripping. I thought the board came back and bashed into my finder,
> and numbed it. No such luck.
>
> Anyway, thought I'd share my story.
Gentlemen,
Your cautionary tales are most welcome.
I remain scarred from an assortment of hand tools, but un-maimed.
Bill
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<%[email protected]>...
> "Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> > my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
> > and I took a decent chunk out of my finger.
>
> Sorry to hear of this. You say a push stick could have saved you, but why
> did it bind up to begin with? Splitter in place? Pawls used?
>
> Perhaps you can save another finger for the rest of us if you know the
> cause.
> Ed
Mowgli wrote:
> I discovered Ebay! And I'm out of work!
> There's gotta be a 12 step program for Ebayaholics :/
Chapter 12 bankruptcy...
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
so sell, sell, sell, instead of buy, buy, buy! :)
dave
Mowgli wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:39:12 GMT, Bay Area Dave's fingers viciously stabbed
> at an innocent keyboard to form the now famous if slightly awkward haiku:
>
>
>>ouch! Hopefully you have no lasting damage, and will use more caution
>>when you get back out there, to prevent worse accidents that will put
>>you out for longer. Just don't take up watching soap operas while on
>>the mend.
>>
>>dave
>>
>
>
> Even worse,
>
> I discovered Ebay! And I'm out of work!
> There's gotta be a 12 step program for Ebayaholics :/
>
> Mowgli
I was a newbie......12 if I remember right, and I watched as the blade made
its cut at the surface of the wood, not thinking that because of the curve
the bottom of the blade couldn't be seen..........no push stick, just
ripping it in half.........you're so right, it is a sound you'll never
forget, as the bone hits the steel. The top of my thumb from the nail up was
dangling by the cuticle. They sewed it on, but there's no feeling. But,
there was when my father came home. After going off on me for a half hour,
he took me back to the saw and showed me the correct, and safe way to use a
table saw. That was forty years ago.......haven't been cut since.
Safe and slow is the way to go............
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Larry Bud) wrote:
>
> >Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
> >my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
>
> Glad you made it with most of your finger. Your whole attitude about
> safety will change for the better now.
>
> Wes
>
> --
> Reply to:
> Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
> Lycos address is a spam trap.
On 28 Nov 2003 22:04:27 -0800, Larry Bud's fingers viciously stabbed at an
innocent keyboard to form the now famous if slightly awkward haiku:
<snippage>
>
>Well, I'm healing up nicely. The stitches are out, still bandaged of
>course. No pain, but some numb areas on my finger. all in all,
>pretty lucky.
>
>I haven't done any work since the accident, although I went to take a
>look at what might have happened. I pulled out my trustly aligner Jr,
>and discovered that the blade was a ful .015" out of alignment from
>the front to the rear of the blade, pinching the work toward the fence
>at the rear. The fence was in perfect alignment to the miter slot.
>So I think the board bound up because of this, causing the kickback
>which hit into my finger, which was knocked into the blade.
>
>Simple precautions could have prevented this, suffice to say. Not
>sure why the blade was out of alignment in the first place. I check
>it once in a while and it's never been out before.
I'm not typing too fast because I took a chance once too many times with my
bandsaw. I got 11 stitches across the knuckles of my right index & fuck
fingers. Yes, I'm a righty. The seamstress said she didn't see any tendon
damage but it hurts like a bastard. I'll find out Friday when I visit the
hand surgeon. Stupid accident from stupid practice. I read and read and do
shortcuts (huhuh no pun there) anyways. My bad, my pain.
A piece of wood caught my parting tool a couple of months ago and bashed my
thumbnail against the toolrest about 30 times in about a half second. No
shortcut, just didn't know any better. I was chainsawing the next day to
make sure I didn't develop
thrown-off-the-horse-and-didn't-get-back-on-so-now-I'm-scared-to-death-of-the-damn-thing
syndrome. Maybe it worked too well and I got cocky. I'm not cocky anymore.
Well at least not in the shop. I saved about 30 minutes over time by not
using a push stick. Now I'm out of commission for at least a week. I'm going
to try to refrain from WW for 2 weeks or until I am obviously healed enough
but, well you know...we'll see how long I can refrain.
Thank God it wasn't the table saw. I was really shoving it in. I read
somewhere once upon a time that sharp blades are better. I thought about
changing it that morning but nooooo....
I'll try following the advice of people more experienced and disciplined
than me and try to keep the red stuff on the inside from now on.
Shortcuts cause short cuts. or something...
Mowgli
Never said I was real smart.
"Hey Ethel, where is that college diploma I urned?"
Preston
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think you'd better start slow. The trio you mentioned diminishes your
IQ
> one point per hour watched....
>
> "Preston Andreas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > And don't even start posting about using guards, safety guidelines and
> other
> > BS. I do this for money, so I am allowed operator stupidity in the
> pursuit
> > of fast production. Of course, I won't mention the two weeks I sat at
> home
> > watching Oprah, Rosie and Jerry Springer while I was waiting for it to
> heal.
> > Oh well.
> >
> > Preston
>
>
Preston, 14 years ago I cut the end of my left thumb off. For months I
thought that I had a kick back situation on the last board that I was
cutting, but oddly none of the wood had blood or tooth marks on it. I later
found that I had apparently blanked that out of my memory. I actually cut
my thumb after I had turned the saw off and was attempting to remove the
fence before the blade had completely stopped. Something to think about,
especially when you cannot remember. ;~)
I'm not typing too fast because I took a chance once too many times with my
bandsaw. I got 11 stitches across the knuckles of my right index & fuck
fingers. Yes, I'm a righty. The seamstress said she didn't see any tendon
damage but it hurts like a bastard. I'll find out Friday when I visit the
hand surgeon. Stupid accident from stupid practice. I read and read and do
shortcuts (huhuh no pun there) anyways. My bad, my pain.
I'll post a scanned pic to alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking
A piece of wood caught my parting tool a couple of months ago and bashed my
thumbnail against the toolrest about 30 times in about a half second. No
shortcut, just didn't know any better. I was chainsawing the next day to
make sure I didn't develop
thrown-off-the-horse-and-didn't-get-back-on-so-now-I'm-scared-to-death-of-the-damn-thing
syndrome. Maybe it worked too well and I got cocky. I'm not cocky anymore.
Well at least not in the shop. I saved about 30 minutes over time by not
using a push stick. Now I'm out of commission for at least a week. I'm going
to try to refrain from WW for 2 weeks or until I am obviously healed enough
but, well you know...we'll see how long I can refrain.
Thank God it wasn't the table saw. I was really shoving it in. I read
somewhere once upon a time that sharp blades are better. I thought about
changing it that morning but nooooo....
I'll try following the advice of people more experienced and disciplined
than me and try to keep the red stuff on the inside from now on.
Shortcuts cause short cuts. or something...
Mowgli
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> how do you use a splitter when you are rabbeting, Ed?? I'd like to see
> that! :)
>
> dave
Guess I wasn't paying attention again.
Ed
[email protected] (Larry Bud) wrote:
>Well, just got back from the emergency room where I got 9 stitches in
>my right index finger. I'm a relative newbie to serious woodworking,
Glad you made it with most of your finger. Your whole attitude about
safety will change for the better now.
Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.
Juergen Hannappel <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I was using a long push stick (about a 12") which ended up being caugth by
>> the blade pulling my hand into the wobble dado blade; can we say ouch! The
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Get rid of that, afaik they are forbidden in Germany for provoking
>such accidents as you have had...
>
>--
>Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Sir,
We in America reserve the right to take our chances. Now if we were
talking about moulding head cutters, I'd be with you on banning those
things :)
The idea of being an American is to be free to take a chance based on
one's ability to forsee what the outcome might be. Sadly, too many
want to remove all risk from society. Risk = Reward in many cases.
BTW, Germany is a lovely country. I lived there for 2 years as a
small boy in the early 60's. Someday I would love to visit it again.
I applaud West Germany's efforts to rebuild East Germany after
re-unification.
Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
Lycos address is a spam trap.
"Robert Sorenson" <[email protected]> writes:
> I wasn't so lucky, I lost the ring finger on my left hand down to the first
> knuckle (from the hand).
>
> I was using a long push stick (about a 12") which ended up being caugth by
> the blade pulling my hand into the wobble dado blade; can we say ouch! The
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Get rid of that, afaik they are forbidden in Germany for provoking
such accidents as you have had...
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
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