On Aug 16, 3:27=A0am, J Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
> J Burns wrote:
>
> > If it had a long handle, I wonder if it might have been for raking
> > quahogs out of mud and sand.
>
> I take it back. =A0A quahog rake wouldn't have that peculiar hoop.
>
>
>
> > In Italian, a Scardassiere is a wool carder. =A0A Pettinatore is a wool
> > comber. =A0A Tiratore is a wool stretcher. =A0Perhaps a retired Tirator=
e
> > would recognize the tool.
>
> I take that back, too. =A0A "tiratore scelto" is a sniper. =A0"Scelto" me=
ans
> "chosen." =A0I think "wool stretcher" refers to a sniper's camouflage, as
> hunters have sometimes used woolly animal hides.
>
> With a sack laced to the hoop, it could well be a picker capable of
> bagging a cluster of apples (or other fruit) at one stroke.
Hmm, it looks remarkably like a 'groundhog rake'
http://www.radiusgarden.com/garden-tools/product/ground-hog
--riverman
On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 04:53:00 -0400, Rob H. wrote:
> I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
I'm never any good at these, but I'll take a stab.
My serious guess for 2010 is that it's designed to catch wax dripping
from a candle, but I'd think wax is too viscous to flow down a channel
like that.
2009 is a male chastity device. Get an erection, and it hits the teeth,
causing pain. (One of the old "Book of List" books from the late
70s/early 80s had a list of patented chastity devices, and some of the
ideas were about as wacky as what's pictured in 2009.) More seriously,
I'd guess it's designed to comb through something (wool?), but the
"teeth" seem a bit far apart for that.
--
Ted S.
fedya at hughes dot net
Now blogging at http://justacineast.blogspot.com
On Aug 13, 5:06=A0pm, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>I think this is probably correct, these conduit bushings look quite
> >>similar
> >>to the shape of the mold:
>
> > I'm not sure, tho. =A0The center rotating element doesn't contact the t=
op of
> > the mold, which would prevent the cast item from being open in the cent=
er.
> > Looks more like it casts a bottle top of some sort.
>
> Yes, it could be a cap, I'm sure it's one or the other. =A0The rest of th=
e
> answers for this week's set can be seen here:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/08/set-349.html#answers
That last one - the drink cooler - is...errr...cool! Not a bad idea
as long as everyone is drinking the same drink, and not too many of
them.
R
I'd say that 2006 is simply a mold to make a positive of the negative
space within. The material, which is poured in through the vee-shaped
cavity at the top, could be either a liquid or a powder. I'm guessing
bakelite. If so, the whole thing would have been heated to (I forget)
about 450 °F for a while if it was bakelite.
The screw isn't for removing the part, the ID will simply take on
that screw thread.
If the compound was elastic, it could be a coupling for a
not-to-powerful drive system.
Pete Stanaitis
--------------------
Rob H. wrote:
> I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
[email protected] did gone and wrote:
>
> I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
Not much in the way of A Clue this week, so these are mostly guesses:
2005: Gas fittings for a dolls house?
2006: A device to assemble ball bearings?
2007: Looks like a film canister from a 'plane mounted camera, probably
WW2 vintage
2008: A fancy incense burner?
2009: Manually-operated bear comb.
2010: Novelty "fake dog turd" mould.
--
Cheers, Ade. http://meddlingmonk.blogspot.com
"Your face reminds me of a roadkill's arsehole. Certainly not on my list
of things to kiss." - http://sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com
In article <[email protected]>, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>I need some help with the second item this week:
>
>http://55tools.blogspot.com/
2005: Security pins for a pin-tumbler lock. The top one is a mushroom
pin, the middle is a serrated pin, the bottom is a spool pin.
http://www.crypto.com/papers/notes/picking/
2006: Probably not a cake mold
2007: Looks like a really big film cartridge, but probably isn't.
2008: Jewelry box
2009: Part of a leg trap
2010: Part of a gumball machine
--
The problem with socialism is there's always
someone with less ability and more need.
On Aug 12, 4:53=A0am, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
2008. The inside probably holds a candle, so it's an early hot dog
bun warmer, or whatever buns they warmed before they had hot dogs.
Could also be a popcorn maker.
2010. A bubblegum machine ramp. No real purpose other than to make
the dispensing of a gumball have more whiz bang.
All food related...can you tell I'm hungry?
R
On Aug 12, 7:02=A0am, spaco <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'd say that 2006 is simply a mold to make a positive of the negative
> space within. ...
> =A0 =A0The screw isn't for removing the part, the ID will simply take on
> that screw thread.
Aha! It's a mold for making a retaining nut.
Probably zinc alloy.
Sometimes you see these on EMT (electrical
lightweight conduit); the octagonal exterior is driven
snug by a screwdriver with a rap from a pair of
Klein linesman pliers.
2005: Security type top pins, used by locksmiths (I are one, locksmith
that is.) These are sometimes called "mushroom pins" or "drivers".
2006 no clue
2007 no clue. If it really is a machine gun magazine, it may need to
be registered with BATF so they can confiscate it later.
2008 looks like a really rich person's doll house
2009, my impression is that it's used for wool carding.
2010 Bored person's marble game.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Alexander Thesoso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
2005 Guess... These are pin tumblers from lock cylinders. Further
guess...
from a lock museum. The various grooves are to make it difficult to
pick
the lock.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
Alexander Thesoso wrote:
> 2006 This has really got my curiosity going...
> It is robust, there is no latch, so the user holds it shut with one
> hand on the less-robust upper handle, turns the crank with his other
> hand, and inserts something in the top with his other hand. The
> result comes out between the mating flat surfaces, mostly, but not
> necessarily completely, in line with the semicircular channels,
> squished by weak pressure generated by the screw. The only wear
> marks align with the end of the screw.
>
> "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I need some help with the second item this week:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
Perhaps a mold for a babbit bearing insert ? The screw pushes it out of the
mold ...
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist
2005 Guess... These are pin tumblers from lock cylinders. Further guess...
from a lock museum. The various grooves are to make it difficult to pick
the lock.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2006 This has really got my curiosity going...
It is robust, there is no latch, so the user holds it shut with one hand on
the less-robust upper handle, turns the crank with his other hand, and
inserts something in the top with his other hand. The result comes out
between the mating flat surfaces, mostly, but not necessarily completely, in
line with the semicircular channels, squished by weak pressure generated by
the screw. The only wear marks align with the end of the screw.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
I'd have guessed that this is a 75-round double-drum magazine for a MG-34,
but I will defer to the identification by Mr. Kraft.
"Walter Kraft" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> 2007 Is a drum-magazine for a German machine gun, Mod. MG 15
>
> 2009 Looks like a harvester vor apples on threes, missing a bag around the
> round rim for the apples to fall in. (and the handle, a long stick)
>
> Walter
2005 are spool pins
not antiques, used to increase picking resistance
"Alexander Thesoso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 2005 Guess... These are pin tumblers from lock cylinders. Further
> guess... from a lock museum. The various grooves are to make it difficult
> to pick the lock.
>
>
> "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I need some help with the second item this week:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
>
>
"Walter Kraft" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> 2007 Is a drum-magazine for a German machine gun, Mod. MG 15
Correct, it was marked "WWI German model 1908/15 machine gun drum magazine"
> 2009 Looks like a harvester vor apples on threes, missing a bag around the
> round rim for the apples to fall in. (and the handle, a long stick)
According to the owner of it this tool was not for harvesting any type of
crop.
Rob
>> I'd say that 2006 is simply a mold to make a positive of the negative
>> space within. ...
>> The screw isn't for removing the part, the ID will simply take on
>> that screw thread.
>Aha! It's a mold for making a retaining nut.
>Probably zinc alloy.
>Sometimes you see these on EMT (electrical
>lightweight conduit); the octagonal exterior is driven
>snug by a screwdriver with a rap from a pair of
>Klein linesman pliers.
I think this is probably correct, these conduit bushings look quite similar
to the shape of the mold:
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=conduit%20bushing&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS228US228&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1296&bih=620
Thanks,
Rob
Rob H. wrote:
> I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2005 - Pick resistant lock tumbler pins.
2006 - It's a mold for making caps. The molten metal gets poured in,
then you use the threaded handle to unscrew the finished cap.
2007 - Should have had a picture of it installed on it's proper item,
MUCH more impressive that way!
2008 - Victorian sex toy case??
2009 - depends on what part of the country your in, I have seen them
used with hops, hay and flax. More or less a form of hay hook for loose
hay,hops,flax.
2010 - "prize" tray for a gum ball machine, one of the ones that runs
the ball through a rube goldberg mess on the way out.
--
Steve W.
OK, so this is a mold for making a pot-metal nut.
I can accept this, and have two problems that can be considered and
dismissed.
1) I'd expect a mold to have a vent as well as a sprue. Otherwise bad
things might happen, like forming bubbles and spattering metal back through
the sprue. In this special case, perhaps the clearance between the two
parts of the mold is large enough to act as a vent.
2) I'd be worried that there isn't a positive latch to keep the mold from
opening (and releasing molten metal) if the operator sneezes and releases
the handle. I guess that, in the days before OSHA, the situation is: get
another operator.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>> I'd say that 2006 is simply a mold to make a positive of the negative
>>> space within. ...
>>> The screw isn't for removing the part, the ID will simply take on
>>> that screw thread.
>
>>Aha! It's a mold for making a retaining nut.
>>Probably zinc alloy.
>>Sometimes you see these on EMT (electrical
>>lightweight conduit); the octagonal exterior is driven
>>snug by a screwdriver with a rap from a pair of
>>Klein linesman pliers.
>
>
> I think this is probably correct, these conduit bushings look quite
> similar to the shape of the mold:
>
> http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=conduit%20bushing&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS228US228&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1296&bih=620
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
2008 - a Holy Water dispenser??
2010 - a revolutionary design stimpmeter
--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
Rob H. wrote:
> I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> Rob
2008: A candle lamp? You would use 6 candles to get the light of 3
open candles, but this lamp would protect them from drafts so they would
burn evenly. If you wanted to see who was outside, you could twist the
knob to cover the light so you could see people outside as well as they
could see you.
>>I think this is probably correct, these conduit bushings look quite
>>similar
>>to the shape of the mold:
>
> I'm not sure, tho. The center rotating element doesn't contact the top of
> the mold, which would prevent the cast item from being open in the center.
> Looks more like it casts a bottle top of some sort.
Yes, it could be a cap, I'm sure it's one or the other. The rest of the
answers for this week's set can be seen here:
http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/08/set-349.html#answers
Rob
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/08/set-349.html#answers
>That last one - the drink cooler - is...errr...cool! Not a bad idea
>as long as everyone is drinking the same drink, and not too many of
>them.
Sounds like it would work but I don't have one of my own, so I can't really
say how well it cools a drink. Also I was told it works best with alcohol
since water based drinks will freeze to it.
Rob
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> 2009, my impression is that it's used for wool carding.
>
>
> Good guess, it was marked "primitive wool stretcher".
>
>
> Rob
Stretching is not the same as carding, primitive or not. Take a look at some
carders. 2009 has too few teeth, too far apart. Carding is an essential step
in the preparation of wool for use. The only time I ever heard the term
stretching used with wool was with respect to stretching a garment that had
shrunk. Any stretching in the preparation stage is done using a drop
spindle.
This is off the top of my head based on two wives hand prep, spinning and
knitting of wool.
"Lee Michaels" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Rob H. wrote:
>>> I need some help with the second item this week:
>>>
>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
> 2009: This looks similar to the "nail rake" used at my local Ace Hardware
> store. It is used to gather nails from the rotating bins to put into sacks
> for bulk purhase.
>
>
>
Sounds more likely than 'wool stretcher'. I've even used similar when buying
bulk nails.
--
National Socialism showed what can happen when very ordinary people get
control of a state and the merely opportunistic are regarded as
intellectuals.
Anthony Burgess
"Rob H." <> wrote in message >>>I think this is probably
correct, these conduit bushings look quite
>>>similar
>>>to the shape of the mold:
>>
>> I'm not sure, tho. The center rotating element doesn't
>> contact the top of
>> the mold, which would prevent the cast item from being
>> open in the center.
>> Looks more like it casts a bottle top of some sort.
>
>
> Yes, it could be a cap, I'm sure it's one or the other.
> The rest of the answers for this week's set can be seen
> here:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/08/set-349.html#answers
>
>
> Rob
I think 2006 is a mold for casting the cap on a diesel fuel
tank on a
heavy truck. The large aluminum cylindrical tanks below the
doors.
phil kangas
> Stretching is not the same as carding, primitive or not. Take a look at
> some carders. 2009 has too few teeth, too far apart. Carding is an
> essential step in the preparation of wool for use. The only time I ever
> heard the term stretching used with wool was with respect to stretching a
> garment that had shrunk. Any stretching in the preparation stage is done
> using a drop spindle.
>
> This is off the top of my head based on two wives hand prep, spinning and
> knitting of wool.
I changed my answer for this tool to read:
"This was marked 'primitive wool stretcher', but it might actually be an
apple picker that has had its long handle cut off."
If it was an apple picker it also would have had a bag hanging under the
metal part to catch the apples.
Rob
Rob H. wrote:
>> Stretching is not the same as carding, primitive or not. Take a look
>> at some carders. 2009 has too few teeth, too far apart. Carding is an
>> essential step in the preparation of wool for use. The only time I
>> ever heard the term stretching used with wool was with respect to
>> stretching a garment that had shrunk. Any stretching in the
>> preparation stage is done using a drop spindle.
>>
>> This is off the top of my head based on two wives hand prep, spinning
>> and knitting of wool.
>
>
> I changed my answer for this tool to read:
>
> "This was marked 'primitive wool stretcher', but it might actually be an
> apple picker that has had its long handle cut off."
>
> If it was an apple picker it also would have had a bag hanging under the
> metal part to catch the apples.
>
>
> Rob
>
If it had a long handle, I wonder if it might have been for raking
quahogs out of mud and sand.
In Italian, a Scardassiere is a wool carder. A Pettinatore is a wool
comber. A Tiratore is a wool stretcher. Perhaps a retired Tiratore
would recognize the tool.
I'm sure I'm very wrong, but the thing sure looks animal related
to me. A way to walk a bull or horse and have his undivided
attention.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DanG
Keep the whole world singing . . .
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Stretching is not the same as carding, primitive or not. Take a
>> look at some carders. 2009 has too few teeth, too far apart.
>> Carding is an essential step in the preparation of wool for
>> use. The only time I ever heard the term stretching used with
>> wool was with respect to stretching a garment that had shrunk.
>> Any stretching in the preparation stage is done using a drop
>> spindle.
>>
>> This is off the top of my head based on two wives hand prep,
>> spinning and knitting of wool.
>
>
> I changed my answer for this tool to read:
>
> "This was marked 'primitive wool stretcher', but it might
> actually be an apple picker that has had its long handle cut
> off."
>
> If it was an apple picker it also would have had a bag hanging
> under the metal part to catch the apples.
>
>
> Rob
>
J Burns wrote:
>>
> If it had a long handle, I wonder if it might have been for raking
> quahogs out of mud and sand.
I take it back. A quahog rake wouldn't have that peculiar hoop.
>
> In Italian, a Scardassiere is a wool carder. A Pettinatore is a wool
> comber. A Tiratore is a wool stretcher. Perhaps a retired Tiratore
> would recognize the tool.
I take that back, too. A "tiratore scelto" is a sniper. "Scelto" means
"chosen." I think "wool stretcher" refers to a sniper's camouflage, as
hunters have sometimes used woolly animal hides.
With a sack laced to the hoop, it could well be a picker capable of
bagging a cluster of apples (or other fruit) at one stroke.
"DanG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm sure I'm very wrong, but the thing sure looks animal related to me. A
> way to walk a bull or horse and have his undivided attention.
>
And maybe ruin a good stallion or bull! :()
Rob H. wrote:
>
>> Hmm, it looks remarkably like a 'groundhog rake'
>> http://www.radiusgarden.com/garden-tools/product/ground-hog
>
>> --riverman
>
>
> I haven't been able to verify the previous guesses so I went ahead and
> added this idea to the answers, at least this one has a link.
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/4486890815_39bb769945.jpg
Here's a quahog rake. Like a groundhog rake, it has its hoop in a plane
perpendicular to the tines.
The hoop of the mystery tool is different. It doesn't look good for
raking, but if you inverted it, laced a bag to it, and reached for fruit
higher than your arm, the shape of the hoop would help catch fruit
better than a quahog rake or a groundhog rake.
"Rob H." <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>> I'd say that 2006 is simply a mold to make a positive of the negative
>>> space within. ...
>>> The screw isn't for removing the part, the ID will simply take on
>>> that screw thread.
>
>>Aha! It's a mold for making a retaining nut.
>>Probably zinc alloy.
>>Sometimes you see these on EMT (electrical
>>lightweight conduit); the octagonal exterior is driven
>>snug by a screwdriver with a rap from a pair of
>>Klein linesman pliers.
>
>
>I think this is probably correct, these conduit bushings look quite similar
>to the shape of the mold:
I'm not sure, tho. The center rotating element doesn't contact the top of
the mold, which would prevent the cast item from being open in the center.
Looks more like it casts a bottle top of some sort.
scott
On 2010-08-12, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
> I need some help with the second item this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Posting from rec.crafts.metalworking as always.
2005) Interesting. The shape of the first gives me a clue, though
the lack of a threaded hole in one end had me puzzled for a
while.
The size is awfully small, but adding the thickness of a
cleaning patch, that might bring the diameter up to 0.177",
the size of the bore of a common pellet firing air gun.
Lacking the thread for a cleaning rod (which would probably be
too skinny anyway), I suspect that you put the solvent-soaked
patch around these objects, put them into the air gun, and fire
it into something provided to catch it and recover it for
re-use.
This will clean the lead out of the rifling left by the
pellets.
I'm more accustomed to cleaning equipment for larger bores, with
the .22 caliber being the smallest.
2006) O.K. "The piece in the center is threaded" -- does this mean
that it has external threads, or that the hole in the end is
threaded?
Assuming the former, it might be that the "threads" actually
serve to scrape off material from something forced into the hole
as the crank is rotated.
The main problem being that there is a need for three hands to
use it properly:
1 To hold the lid closed
2) To turn the crank
3) To push in the workpiece.
But -- the shape of the guide in the top suggests that the
workpiece could be clamped into the slot by the cover, and just
worked at a single extension.
Or -- something of smaller diameter could be simply fed by its
own weight -- and perhaps pulled in by the teeth.
Of course -- the threads could be actual threads, and a cutter
screwed onto the rotating part.
Given that the cover is flat, I don't see it being particularly
position sensitive (given some play in the hinge), so I don't
really see a need for the alignment pin which is present.
2007) At first glance, it appears to be a film magazine -- but the
window is no large enough to allow an exposure commensurate with
the width of the film.
So -- I will say that it is a magazine for ammunition for an
automatic weapon. I don't know whether it is for belted
ammunition, with the second side to capture the belt and cases
(uncommon, but possible), or whether it is two scrolls which
feed cartridges alternately from the left and right drums.
The heavy leather strap does suggest that the contents are heavy
when fully loaded.
I wonder whether this was a magazine for some kind of aircraft
cannon? Perhaps .50 caliber or so?
It looks as though it will hold 75 cartridges -- whether in
total, or 75 per side.
2008) To hide alcoholic beverages when not being used?
2009) A specialized rake (missing the handle). Presumably for
gathering things from a semicircular groove -- perhaps for
cleaning an irrigation ditch?
2010) Two possibilities:
I'll list the one which I consider most likely first.
1) A ramp to go in a vibratory feeder. The feeder
vibrates in such a pattern so things walk up the ramp,
and fall into a container in the center.
(I've usually seen this kind of ramp on the outside edge
of the bowl, to walk small parts out one at a time.)
2) A ramp to launch a round ball (likely steel) at a specific
speed. the balls are piled in the center and raised by
a piston, and roll one at a time down the ramp gaining
speed until they exit in a specific direction -- perhaps
as part of a game.
So -- you have caught up with the current year. Next week will
be extending into the future. :-)
Now to see what others have suggested.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
On 2010-08-13, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 13, 5:06 pm, "Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>I think this is probably correct, these conduit bushings look quite
>> >>similar
>> >>to the shape of the mold:
>>
>> > I'm not sure, tho. The center rotating element doesn't contact the top of
>> > the mold, which would prevent the cast item from being open in the center.
>> > Looks more like it casts a bottle top of some sort.
>>
>> Yes, it could be a cap, I'm sure it's one or the other. The rest of the
>> answers for this week's set can be seen here:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2010/08/set-349.html#answers
>
> That last one - the drink cooler - is...errr...cool! Not a bad idea
> as long as everyone is drinking the same drink, and not too many of
> them.
Indeed so. A bit of Google searching only seems to find it
offered for sale in the UK -- and places which appear to be US-based say
"no longer available", which suggests that there was some kind of hazard
associated with it. Not sure that I would want something acidic flowing
in an aluminum channel. Now if there were a stainless steel version, I
might be somewhat more comfortable with that.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <[email protected]> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
"Ted Schuerzinger" <[email protected]> wrote
> My serious guess for 2010 is that it's designed to catch wax dripping
> from a candle, but I'd think wax is too viscous to flow down a channel
> like that.
Looks like a pretty good serious guess; thing is it doesn't have to work
properly, only has to be thought of, maybe ?