O.T. Euphemism runs amok.

Robatoy wrote:
>
>>
>> It IS possible to stall an aircraft at ANY airspeed if the angle of
>> attack is sufficiently advanced.
>
> Indeed. Airspeed is a factor in stalling conditions as well as angle
> of attack. Angle of attack alone doesn't give us enough to set off a
> stall alarm.
> An F-16 with it's nose almost straight up but doing 400 kn is not
> necessarily in a stall condition.
>

An F-16 has a thrust-to-weight ratio greater than 1.0 (if memory serves).
Therefore it can fly straight up exactly like a rocket ship - only
different.

Even then, it still has an "angle of attack." And airspeed.

On Jan 27, 7:54=A0am, "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
>
> >> Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed.
>
> > That is incorrect.
>
> They work together (sort of). If the stall warning worked by airspeed alo=
ne,
> it would be going off when the plane was parked.
>
> The stall warning (and airspeed indicator) is triggered when the dynamic =
air
> pressure detected by the Pitot tube is compared to the static pressure an=
d
> the result is processed.

As there are many methods to detect disturbed air flow/cavitation at
the trailing edge of the upper wing surfaces.

>
> It IS possible to stall an aircraft at ANY airspeed if the angle of attac=
k
> is sufficiently advanced.

Indeed. Airspeed is a factor in stalling conditions as well as angle
of attack. Angle of attack alone doesn't give us enough to set off a
stall alarm.
An F-16 with it's nose almost straight up but doing 400 kn is not
necessarily in a stall condition.

If the angle of attack is a constant and the air speed is varied, so
does the stall condition.

Therefore, the statement: "Stall warning works by angle of attack, not
by airspeed." is wrong.

<[email protected]> wrote:

> ***************
>
> Tom:
>
> As requested, I met with your representative on site yesterday.
> However, it appeared that he had *fully* inserted his entire upper
> cranial area into his lower body, rear quadrant.
>
> I believe that it was this insertion that made it impossible for him
> to communicate as he was apparently unable to hear anything I said
> or
> to respond to my questions in a clear and intelligent manner.
>
> I would recommend that in the future that you meet with me yourself
> or
> find someone in your employ that does not suffer from the
> aforementioned biological challenge.
>
> Your draw has been denied.
>
> Robert
>
> ***************
You silver tongued devil.

Lew

<[email protected]> wrote
>
> ***************
>
> Tom:
>
> As requested, I met with your representative on site yesterday.
> However, it appeared that he had *fully* inserted his entire upper
> cranial area into his lower body, rear quadrant.
>
> I believe that it was this insertion that made it impossible for him
> to communicate as he was apparently unable to hear anything I said or
> to respond to my questions in a clear and intelligent manner.
>
> I would recommend that in the future that you meet with me yourself or
> find someone in your employ that does not suffer from the
> aforementioned biological challenge.
>
> Your draw has been denied.
>
> Robert
>
> ***************
>
Did Tom figure it out?? LOL

Reminds me of a guy I knew who worked for the welfare system. Someone posted
a sheet on the bulletin board titled, "Meaningless Report Protocols". Many
copies were made and it was posted on hundreds of bulletin boards across
town within the week. Stuff like that travels fast. Even in the day before
computers and e-mail!

On Jan 27, 10:41 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> End of discussion as you have clearly demonstrated that you know
> nothing about the subject.

Rob - in a about a 10 year stint I worked in a financial institution
managing and selling construction money. That was in the 80s, the
height of political correctness and plain old verbosity.

I had to go to three or four "educational seminars" at the
institutions to learn that men were inconsiderate, horny louts that
had no manners and no idea how to act around females.

They "educated" all of us men on how to speak to women, how to address
women, where and how to stand when talking to women, and of course the
famous 36" personal space rule.

I digress. It was annoying and insulting as hell, though.

AFTER I tendered my resignation for other reasons, I sent a memo out
( always had to CC the branch manager ) after inspecting a job. I was
ticked off at the fact that contractor was no where near the
percentage amount of work he claimed he had completed, and worse, the
idiot he sent out to meet me was a total jackass.

So I sent back a letter of declination to the contractor that was very
similar to this:

***************

Tom:

As requested, I met with your representative on site yesterday.
However, it appeared that he had *fully* inserted his entire upper
cranial area into his lower body, rear quadrant.

I believe that it was this insertion that made it impossible for him
to communicate as he was apparently unable to hear anything I said or
to respond to my questions in a clear and intelligent manner.

I would recommend that in the future that you meet with me yourself or
find someone in your employ that does not suffer from the
aforementioned biological challenge.

Your draw has been denied.

Robert

***************

I wrote it when I was pissed off at everyone; the contractor, the
company I worked for and the people that were my fellow workers. I
wrote that just to be a smart ass.

Oddly, it was the hit of good old NORWEST banking systems and flew all
over the company via email. I still got a reprimand though, but with
a few days left to go I didn't care.

I had not thought about that in years.

Robert

On Jan 27, 11:18=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>
>
> > Robatoy wrote:
>
> > >> It IS possible to stall an aircraft at ANY airspeed if the angle of
> > >> attack is sufficiently advanced.
>
> > > Indeed. Airspeed is a factor in stalling conditions as well as angle
> > > of attack. Angle of attack alone doesn't give us enough to set off a
> > > stall alarm.
>
> Actually it does.
>

End of discussion as you have clearly demonstrated that you know
nothing about the subject.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d834a09a-0929-46f8-9fc1-a3b1342c3a49@i32g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 26, 4:55 am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
> I couldn't resist copying this from a posting on alt.usage.english.
> Language abuse is alive and kicking!
>
> Went to RBC (a bank) on Georgia. "We're temporarily closed," said a
> woman at the door. "Is that it?" I asked. "Is that really all you're
> going to say?" "We've had an unauthorised withdrawal attempt." "Oh.
> You mean you've been held up." Vancouver is the capital of
> mealy-mouthed communication. "Unauthorised withdrawal attempt." I"m
> not making this up.
>
> --
> Stuart Winsor
>
> Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011

What was that other one..the plane crash.. "Unintended contact with
terrain" or something like that.
There's a few of those around, hopefully this thread will cough up a
few.

I'll never forget the pretty face anchor gal on the local news reporting
about an incident where an airplane landed and went off the runway.

She exclaimed! The airplane skidded into a crash!


Probably because it over turned, although it did not "turn over".

In article <[email protected]>, willshak@
00hvc.rr.com says...
>
> Leon wrote the following:
> > "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:d834a09a-0929-46f8-9fc1-a3b1342c3a49@i32g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jan 26, 4:55 am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I couldn't resist copying this from a posting on alt.usage.english.
> >> Language abuse is alive and kicking!
> >>
> >> Went to RBC (a bank) on Georgia. "We're temporarily closed," said a
> >> woman at the door. "Is that it?" I asked. "Is that really all you're
> >> going to say?" "We've had an unauthorised withdrawal attempt." "Oh.
> >> You mean you've been held up." Vancouver is the capital of
> >> mealy-mouthed communication. "Unauthorised withdrawal attempt." I"m
> >> not making this up.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Stuart Winsor
> >>
> >> Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
> >>
> >
> > What was that other one..the plane crash.. "Unintended contact with
> > terrain" or something like that.
> >
>
> Close. Controlled flying into terrain.

Which isn't always a crash. I recall reading about a PBY that made an
unintended landing on the Greenland icecap. The terrain was so flat and
sloped so gradually that the first indication that the pilot had that he
had touched ground was when at full throttle he had zero airspeed.

I don't recall if they got it off.

> > There's a few of those around, hopefully this thread will cough up a
> > few.
> >
> > I'll never forget the pretty face anchor gal on the local news reporting
> > about an incident where an airplane landed and went off the runway.
> >
> > She exclaimed! The airplane skidded into a crash!
> >
> >
> > Probably because it over turned, although it did not "turn over".
> >
> >
> >

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
> >
> > Which isn't always a crash. I recall reading about a PBY that made an
> > unintended landing on the Greenland icecap. The terrain was so flat and
> > sloped so gradually that the first indication that the pilot had that he
> > had touched ground was when at full throttle he had zero airspeed.
> >
> > I don't recall if they got it off.
> >
> I think the stall warning alarm would have caused a sphinctal
> malfunction long before zero airspeed occurred.

Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed. Angle of
attack was never unusual.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Robatoy wrote:
> >>
> >> Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed.
> >
> > That is incorrect.
>
> They work together (sort of). If the stall warning worked by airspeed alone,
> it would be going off when the plane was parked.
>
> The stall warning (and airspeed indicator) is triggered when the dynamic air
> pressure detected by the Pitot tube is compared to the static pressure and
> the result is processed.

Depends on the aircraft. On a Cessna or the like there's a tab that is
normally pressed down by its own weight and by dynamic pressure, but
when angle of attack becomes high enough the low pressure area moves
forward far enough on the wing to lift the tab, activating the warning.

On an aircraft with an angle of attack sensor, the angle of attack
sensor would be the primary means of sensing an impending stall.

Not sure how one could get an effective stall warning from the
difference in pressure between the pitot and static ports, all that
gives you is airspeed.

> It IS possible to stall an aircraft at ANY airspeed if the angle of attack
> is sufficiently advanced.

In any case the incident occurred on a ferry flight during WWII, and the
stall warning horn was not invented until sometime around 1947.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> Robatoy wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> It IS possible to stall an aircraft at ANY airspeed if the angle of
> >> attack is sufficiently advanced.
> >
> > Indeed. Airspeed is a factor in stalling conditions as well as angle
> > of attack. Angle of attack alone doesn't give us enough to set off a
> > stall alarm.

Actually it does.

> > An F-16 with it's nose almost straight up but doing 400 kn is not
> > necessarily in a stall condition.

And it is not necessarily operating at a high angle of attack either.
An F-16 with its nose pointed straight up while it's doing 400 knots
horizontally is operating at a 90 degree angle of attack and most
assuredly _is_ stalled. On the other hand if it's in a vertical climb
at 400 knots with the nose straight up then it's operating at zero angle
of attack and is not stalled.

> An F-16 has a thrust-to-weight ratio greater than 1.0 (if memory
serves).
> Therefore it can fly straight up exactly like a rocket ship - only
> different.
>
> Even then, it still has an "angle of attack." And airspeed.

Yes.

Leon wrote the following:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:d834a09a-0929-46f8-9fc1-a3b1342c3a49@i32g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 26, 4:55 am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I couldn't resist copying this from a posting on alt.usage.english.
>> Language abuse is alive and kicking!
>>
>> Went to RBC (a bank) on Georgia. "We're temporarily closed," said a
>> woman at the door. "Is that it?" I asked. "Is that really all you're
>> going to say?" "We've had an unauthorised withdrawal attempt." "Oh.
>> You mean you've been held up." Vancouver is the capital of
>> mealy-mouthed communication. "Unauthorised withdrawal attempt." I"m
>> not making this up.
>>
>> --
>> Stuart Winsor
>>
>> Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
>>
>
> What was that other one..the plane crash.. "Unintended contact with
> terrain" or something like that.
>

Close. Controlled flying into terrain.
> There's a few of those around, hopefully this thread will cough up a
> few.
>
> I'll never forget the pretty face anchor gal on the local news reporting
> about an incident where an airplane landed and went off the runway.
>
> She exclaimed! The airplane skidded into a crash!
>
>
> Probably because it over turned, although it did not "turn over".
>
>
>


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Artemus wrote:
> "J. Clarke"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
>>
>> Which isn't always a crash. I recall reading about a PBY that made an
>> unintended landing on the Greenland icecap. The terrain was so flat and
>> sloped so gradually that the first indication that the pilot had that he
>> had touched ground was when at full throttle he had zero airspeed.
>>
>> I don't recall if they got it off.
>>
> I think the stall warning alarm would have caused a sphinctal
> malfunction long before zero airspeed occurred.
> Art
>
>
Do you reckon a PBY had a stall warning system?

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

How long a minute is depends on which
side of the bathroom door you're on.

"willshak" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Close. Controlled flying into terrain.
And you are very close, but not quite official language.

It is "Controlled Flight Into Terrain."
--
Jim in NC

Robatoy wrote:
>>
>> Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed.
>
> That is incorrect.

They work together (sort of). If the stall warning worked by airspeed alone,
it would be going off when the plane was parked.

The stall warning (and airspeed indicator) is triggered when the dynamic air
pressure detected by the Pitot tube is compared to the static pressure and
the result is processed.

It IS possible to stall an aircraft at ANY airspeed if the angle of attack
is sufficiently advanced.

On Jan 26, 9:42=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>
>
>
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> > <snip>
>
> > > Which isn't always a crash. =A0I recall reading about a PBY that made=
an
> > > unintended landing on the Greenland icecap. =A0The terrain was so fla=
t and
> > > sloped so gradually that the first indication that the pilot had that=
he
> > > had touched ground was when at full throttle he had zero airspeed.
>
> > > I don't recall if they got it off.
>
> > I think the stall warning alarm would have caused a sphinctal
> > malfunction long before zero airspeed occurred.
>
> Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed. =A0

That is incorrect.

On Jan 26, 4:55=A0am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
> I couldn't resist copying this from a posting on alt.usage.english.
> Language abuse is alive and kicking!
>
> Went to RBC (a bank) on Georgia. "We're temporarily closed," said a
> woman at the door. "Is that it?" I asked. "Is that really all you're
> going to say?" "We've had an unauthorised withdrawal attempt." "Oh.
> You mean you've been held up." Vancouver is the capital of
> mealy-mouthed communication. "Unauthorised withdrawal attempt." I"m
> not making this up.
>
> --
> Stuart Winsor
>
> Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011

What was that other one..the plane crash.. "Unintended contact with
terrain" or something like that.
There's a few of those around, hopefully this thread will cough up a
few.

On Jan 27, 11:52=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:47:47 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Jan 26, 9:42=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed. =A0
>
> >That is incorrect.
>
> You're being trolled, Toy.
>
> --
> Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
> alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
> is people who have come alive. =A0 =A0 =A0-- Howard Thurman

No I'm not.

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
>
> Which isn't always a crash. I recall reading about a PBY that made an
> unintended landing on the Greenland icecap. The terrain was so flat and
> sloped so gradually that the first indication that the pilot had that he
> had touched ground was when at full throttle he had zero airspeed.
>
> I don't recall if they got it off.
>
I think the stall warning alarm would have caused a sphinctal
malfunction long before zero airspeed occurred.
Art

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robatoy wrote:
> >>
> >> Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed.
> >
> > That is incorrect.
>
> They work together (sort of). If the stall warning worked by airspeed alone,
> it would be going off when the plane was parked.
>
> The stall warning (and airspeed indicator) is triggered when the dynamic air
> pressure detected by the Pitot tube is compared to the static pressure and
> the result is processed.
>
> It IS possible to stall an aircraft at ANY airspeed if the angle of attack
> is sufficiently advanced.
>
>

That makes sense. I sit corrected.
Art

"Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
>>
>> Which isn't always a crash. I recall reading about a PBY that made an
>> unintended landing on the Greenland icecap. The terrain was so flat and
>> sloped so gradually that the first indication that the pilot had that he
>> had touched ground was when at full throttle he had zero airspeed.
>>
>> I don't recall if they got it off.
>>
> I think the stall warning alarm would have caused a sphinctal
> malfunction long before zero airspeed occurred.
> Art
>
>

Heard and Saw one of those on a landing at LA from Santa Barbara. Little
prop commuter with curtains for the door to the flight deck. We must have
hit the wash from a big jet. Was real sphincter control watching the pilots
wrestle us onto the ground in one piece. Some superb flying ...

--
"He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! "
Brian's Mum

On 1/26/2011 7:46 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jan 26, 4:55 am, Stuart<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I couldn't resist copying this from a posting on alt.usage.english.
>> Language abuse is alive and kicking!
>>
>> Went to RBC (a bank) on Georgia. "We're temporarily closed," said a
>> woman at the door. "Is that it?" I asked. "Is that really all you're
>> going to say?" "We've had an unauthorised withdrawal attempt." "Oh.
>> You mean you've been held up." Vancouver is the capital of
>> mealy-mouthed communication. "Unauthorised withdrawal attempt." I"m
>> not making this up.
>>
>> --
>> Stuart Winsor
>>
>> Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
>
> What was that other one..the plane crash.. "Unintended contact with
> terrain" or something like that.

Bet that caused an unintended sphincter relaxation in their Calvin
Kleins ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 1/28/2011 4:53 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

> Reminds me of a guy I knew who worked for the welfare system. Someone
> posted a sheet on the bulletin board titled, "Meaningless Report
> Protocols". Many copies were made and it was posted on hundreds of
> bulletin boards across town within the week. Stuff like that travels
> fast. Even in the day before computers and e-mail!

That guy in Office Space, the boss ... my neighborhood is full of his
brothers.

AAMOF, this whole side of the city is full of 'em ... tasseled Italian
loafers, with no socks, they're everywhere ...

:(

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:47:47 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Jan 26, 9:42 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Stall warning works by angle of attack, not by airspeed.  
>
>That is incorrect.

You're being trolled, Toy.

--
Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come
alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs
is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman